Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Ben Goessling analyzes JJ McCarthy's camp, Chris Trapasso previews Vikings preseason

Episode Date: August 8, 2025

Matthew Coller is first joined by Ben Goessling of the Minnesota Star Tribune to analyze JJ McCarthy's camp so far. Then, Chris Trapasso of the TrapSheet joins to preview the Vikings' preseason. The Purple Insider podcast is brought to you by FanDuel.

Hey, everybody, welcome inside TCO Performance Center, Matthew Collar, along with Ben Gessling of the Star Tribune. And for those of you who have been watching slash listening for a long period of time, you know what this means. In fact, you're probably making a noise already related to what this is going to be. You know what time it is. And it is that time. It is time to look into our crystal ball, just a little background on the crystal ball. episodes. Mike Zimmer once declared that he didn't have a crystal ball to find out if Sam Bradford was going to come back way back in 2017. And then a local fortune teller sent him

a crystal ball. And that didn't really help either. So we are going to look into our, for that year it did for a while until it didn't. And then we're going to look into our crystal ball to talk about 2025 Vikings and this preseason game. So how about this? What? Let's start right off, Ben, by looking into your crystal ball for Saturday's football game and J.J. McCarthy getting back on the field for the first time. If you're looking at it, what is it that you are seeing in terms of how much he plays and how comfortable he is under center? Yeah, I'm seeing, looks like the clock is still in the first quarter when he comes out.

it looks like probably a couple of drives. They've got a seven to three lead. It looks like he must have, I gather that means he led a scoring drive. And they said, okay, we're good. Maybe it might be two drives, we'll have to see what it is. But if he leads a scoring drive, I would assume, and we're still early first quarter, or mid first quarter, it looks like, yeah, he plays a couple series and they say we're good. That's it, huh?

You don't think it will be more? I would like to see him play as much as they can possibly have him play. Yeah, I think there's an argument for that. I just don't know if they're going to do it. I think Kevin O'Connell in general has been very timid when it comes to playing the starters. I agree with that philosophy. We were there watching in Kansas City when Irv Smith Jr. got hurt and they lost him for the season in 2021 because Mike Zimmer wanted to see a little more of the offense and you end up losing a key player.

And even this team lost B.C. Johnson a couple years ago. and I don't think he's ever played in the NFL since in a preseason game. So Kevin O'Connell has always been very smart about the handling of the starters, but this is such a unique situation. I mean, this is a quarterback that, you know, when we watch practice, gets what, five, six, seven, eight plays per practice at 11 on 11, and then he's got to go run 70 plays against the Chicago Bears at Soldier Field. I would like to see him at least play a whole first quarter,

and maybe even a little bit beyond because I think he has some catching up to do. Yeah, he does. It's such an interesting situation because on one hand, they have all of their chips in his basket. I mean, he has to be healthy. They have to have him successful for them to be a successful team this year. On the other hand, he hasn't played the position because he got hurt in this game last year. So there's going to be caution. I think there's also going to be desire to make up for the time that he missed. So how do you do that? I think what they may end up doing is using those joint practices with the Patriots next week to get a lot of that work.

I would expect those are busy days for him. I calculated or guesstimated in my newsletter today that he could get 100-something snaps between the joint practices and the game. And I wouldn't be surprised if, say, 15 to 20 of those are in the game and he gets a couple of pretty busy days of work against the Patriots next week, which still gives them some time against ones, but also makes it a little easier to control the situation. He's not getting taken to the ground. All of those kinds of things are a little bit different.

So it's tricky because he just hasn't had the time, hasn't had the time on task. I think as Kirk used to say, and you hear other people say that as well, but hasn't had it, but they also cannot moose him. So how you figure out the way to do all of that is tricky. It is because the injury risk is serious. Yeah. Although at the same time, if you, right, if you show up to week one and you're not fully ready and prepared with all the things that Kevin O'Connell needs from a quarterback to run this offense. And I think it is very specific to O'Connell as well.

But there's also a receiver situation where you could use a few reps with Rondale Moore. You could use a few reps with Lucky Jackson and with Ty Felton because we don't know who you're going to need. I mean, we're just assuming in the first three games that all the receivers not named George, and Addison are healthy, but what if someone else gets hurt? He needs some reps with those guys as well. And I would say the same for some backup offense of linemen. I mean, Michael Juergens was snapping in the last couple days. I mean, the reality is Michael Juergens might play this year with Ryan Kelly and his recent

injury history. So that's why I lean toward getting him as many reps as possible. But then, you know, even last year in that game where he got hurt, it looked like it was just on a run play where he tried to juke. But he also got popped a couple of times. And maybe Kevin O'Connell will keep in somebody who can pass protect better than some of their guys that have frustrated O'Connell. But wait, I'm seeing something else from the crystal ball here. Whoa.

It's you. It's your face. Okay. And you're making a noise in reaction to the first three games of J.J. McCarthy's season. But I can't hear the noise. Maybe you can hear it. What noise are you making reacting to the first? three games of J.J. McCarthy's career.

There's so many ways we could take this or the crystal ball could take us on this. It sounds, I mean, we don't have like the audio enhancement on the crystal ball, so I'm guessing a little bit of the lip reading. There's a little bit that has to go on here, but, you know, I know the guy that's making the noise, so I can guesstimate. It sounds kind of like a, you know, pretty good kind of noise. like, yeah, he's been pretty decent compared to what he could have been. So that must mean, like, he's been serviceable, and they're coming out of this, maybe two

and one? You know, are they going to win all three of those? It's one of the easier stretches of the schedule. I don't know that the noise, if we can rely on that from future me, is saying that. But I think that he's been serviceable and they found a way to win, even if they're aren't leaning on him all the time. If you wonder why we keep doing this bit, its answers like that is exactly why.

I like that. I like the move. Not too bad. Not too bad. That's exactly my expectation from him. As we've watched practice play out over these last couple weeks, there is nothing that I've seen

that would push me to an extreme or even push me past where I was last year with J.J. McCarthy at the end of training camp. At the end of camp, I felt like his trajectory was really good, and he needed a lot of work on certain areas and that there was going to be inconsistencies that were frustrating of a young quarterback. But at the same time, you see the armed talent, you see the command, you see the leadership, you see, I think, his desire to be a playmaker.

And so many podcasts over the years that you and I have done, which this is year 10 of you and I podcast. You believe that? Yeah. That's crazy. But, you know, there's so many times where we talked about Kirk Cousins' lack of playmaking ability. And when I see J.J. McCarthy take off. And even when he makes a mistake outside of the pocket, throws a pick to Blake Cashman or a pick to Jay Ward a couple of days ago, I still say, sir, do not stop doing that. And I think that that can even out some of the ups and downs is that he has a natural playmaker's mentality.

And the other part of it, too, that's made it hard for me to evaluate his first two. weeks is how many practices with Justin Jefferson? That is such a big deal. And we're trying to project, well, what's he going to be? How many yards is he going to throw for? How many touchdowns? Like, well, I can't really figure that out until I see him throw to number 18 because that's where we knew that Sam Darnold was going to go somewhere, not 14 wins, but going to go somewhere was when he started really clicking with Justin Jefferson. Well, it's worth pointing that out because Justin Jefferson is the first guy telling quarterbacks, trust me.

Even if I'm covered, trust me. Trust yourself, but also trust that I'm going to come down with the ball, even if it's in a contested situation. And that was something he was saying to Sam Donald last year, something he was saying to J.J. McCarthy at the beginning of the season, too, because there was a governor on this offense at times if Kirk Cousins was too geared towards the cautious side of his mind to make some of those plays with Justin Jefferson.

You saw that get better, I think, in 2022, a lot of nudging from Kevin O'Connell, from West Phillips, from Justin Jefferson. I mean, the ball in Buffalo, the fourth and 18, is an example of, I don't think that's a throw Kirk makes earlier on in his career, but then you still see a lot of times, like the fourth and eight, where he defaults to that, okay, I've just got to put the ball in play and trust your receiver to beat a couple of tackles to get a first down, that willingness to say, yeah, I can let it ride here, especially if I'm on the run, which is another component to this offense that you saw with San Bernard. I think you're going to see with

C.J. McCarthy being able to both pick up first downs with your feet and, I think, throw on the move, those are different things than what we've seen in the past. I do think if that even shows up a couple times a game and this defense being as good as we think it's going to be, that may help make the difference and make up for the fact that he's not going to be completely polished. right off the bat. And I would like to see him be confident in Saturday's game with that playmaking element of don't worry about the fact that you got hurt doing this last time. Like take off, move, try some throws.

If you need to see, like last year I thought it was a learning throw when he threw the interception on the move because that's a play in college that's probably fine. And the receiver catches it in the NFL. That's an NFL corner and he's going to undercut and he's going to make a play. But those are lessons that he needs to learn about balancing that. but it is a difference maker with his mobility, his athleticism, and I think that it's a part of his game that isn't talked about a lot because he's not going to be a, like, read option type of quarterback.

But we see guys like Baker Mayfield run for 300 plus yards a year and get a bunch of first downs. I remember seeing this stat that Daniel Jones, in the one good year that he had in 2022, he had more first downs rushing that year than Delvin Cook did. because the quarterback taken off on a third down and seven. It's one of the most frustrating things. I mean, think about Mahomes has won a couple Super Bowls this way with big run. So I want to see more of that. I want to see command of the offense.

That had a big say in that playoff game. Daniel Jones running the ball. It did. I think he converted a fourth down on a run. Yeah, exactly. That defense was fine, though. There was no issues with that defense. There was some space.

There's a lot of air in the coverage. So the first couple of weeks of the season, I agree that we will see probably some ups and downs. They've got beatable opponents, especially Chicago, that seems like, I don't know what's going on there in their training camp. I read another tweet today, and I thought this can't be serious, right, that Ben Johnson had the defense play offense for a rep and the offense played defense for a rep because it is apparently a clown show in Chicago. So that one, I think, he can get through. And then it gets, it gets tougher. You know, Atlanta's going to be, I think, a more complete team than they were. And Cincinnati is obviously a great.

offense for this team to go against, which I'm kind of looking, I'm seeing something about the defense, but I'm not just seeing how good the defense is. I think that's crystal clear in our crystal ball. I'm seeing some players that we didn't necessarily expect. Yeah, but I can't tell who. I don't recognize those faces as guys of like Javan Hargrave or, you know, Blake Cashman. These are, these are different people I'm seeing. Yeah, it looks like a couple of guys maybe on the defensive line. I think I see a number 61 in there. I think there's some situational pass rush coming from a couple of those guys. Yeah, Jalen Redmond, I think I see in there. I think Levi-Drake Rodriguez, looks like number 50 with the hair sticking out of the

back of the helmet. Looks like some contributions from those guys. I think it's people that probably get some snaps when those older players need a blow and you have guys in passing situations that probably are especially helpful when they're fresh. Yeah, I think it's those two. Jalen Redmond, maybe it's not always an obvious passing situation, but the force we've seen from him in training camp and Levi Drake Rodriguez has had some moments, including a sack yesterday in training camp. So yeah, it looks like those guys coming through with a few big plays here and there. So I said this the other night on the show that I feel like. if we're doing biggest winners of training camp, the Johnny Pop is number one.

Yes, Johnny Pop is, shout out to the Johnny Pop. That's been a clutch edition. They're giving away free Johnny Popes to everybody, and obviously we have taken advantage of that. So that's been really great. And then giving them some free advertising. Right after that, not far behind is Levi Drake Rodriguez. I think he's been one of the best players at camp. Dallas Turner might get number one for that, that we had questions about this defense.

And I would even throw like an Isaiah Rogers out there. A lot of the positions where we went, well, is there depth on the D-line? And then we see these guys stepping up. What's Dallas Turner going to look like? And he's been a monster, I think, in this camp. How's their secondary? How's the cornerback unit? And I'm interested in your take on Jeff Okuda, who I think Jeff Okuda is one of those sort of under pressure guys going into this preseason game.

But Isaiah Rogers, to me, has looked like a pro outside corner, like great number two, at least in training camp so far, is this different from what you expected to see from the defense? Well, a little bit in the sense, and I feel like we default to this every year. I'm kind of grading myself over the years here where you go in with questions about guys that haven't proven it yet. And it's like, why do I have this question? Well, in a large sense, it's because I haven't seen it yet. Does that mean the question is valid, I suppose? But it also is a reflection of the fact that I'm not.

not able to watch film of their practice every day. I'm not going off the same information that coaches have. And that does not mean that you sit there and say, okay, well, everything our coach says at a podium is gospel, you don't do that. But you do need to remember when you're making your own evaluations of this that at least I'll speak for myself here. There's a tendency to skew towards what we know and what we've seen proven and established. That's not a bad instinct overall. But I think remembering that there is room to say this guy could surprise or this guy could exceed whatever the public expectations are, in part because the public expectations are not necessarily based on the same information that the coaches have.

And I think Jeff Okuda is really interesting, Isaiah Rogers as well, because I remember when Kevin O'Connell said it at the owner's meetings, how excited Brian Flores was about Isaiah Rogers. It's like, okay, we've seen him in spurts as a coverage corner in the NFL, but the advanced numbers are really good, and he certainly has the speed. it's the question of, is he big enough? Is he physical enough? But I think a lot of the coverage instincts that we've seen look like he can do the job. And Jeff Okuda is a guy that you don't get to be the third pick in the draft if you're not physically able to do the job.

And I think there's a little bit of a bet there of we can be the ones to get him to play up to his capacity, play up to his potential. We'll see if that's going to be right. It's not a terribly expensive gamble if they're wrong on it. But if they're right, that could be a major difference maker for this defense. So there are a few things with Isaiah Rogers that are different from Okuda. Like, obviously we conflate them because they're the two guys who are taking the first team reps, and both of them have smaller samples or don't have a sample of being Stefan Gilmore or something when he arrives here. But with Rogers, his sample, as you mentioned, was good.

Like, he played for Philadelphia last year on the Super Bowl champion team and played, including playoffs, close to 500 snaps, put up good grades, good numbers when he was targeted, good tackling, all that sort of stuff. Okuda is the one that I have to be more sold on than just at practice because, I mean, he's been extremely physical. The Vikings, though, don't have the most physical wide receivers. So when you're slamming into Jordan Addison, it's going to look a little bit different than if you're slamming into, you know, I don't Romadunzee or something, somebody who's really big or DJ Moore, who's not big, but is really strong. It might be a little bit different. And the main issue with Okuda is not the tackling, not the physical, not the tough. it's really been can you track wide receivers down the field and can you play in zones,

which is what this defense likes to do a lot. But I think having Mackay Blackman as your backup option currently for that position makes it feel deep to me. It's like Rogers is the swing man where suddenly it went from, I don't know how it feels. That's my noise. But to now, like actually this feels kind of deep. And then we've seen Zamaia Vaughn as well. Now this is another guy as far as who we're circling in the preseason, I think Zamaia Vaughn would be at the top of my list there. Yeah, yeah, he has been a surprise, and certainly the stature. I think the type of size and weight he brings to that position is what you'd want.

And if you can get him developed and get him to play a regular role, that could be a nice fine for them. We'll see if they put him on the roster, if he ends up being a practice squad guy. But he has been, when I was sitting there doing 53-band roster stuff last week, I was like, okay, this has got to be on the roster. that decision probably comes at the end of the preseason, has he shown enough that they think we can get him through to the practice squad or not? If he has a good preseason, they may decide we need to keep him. But he has certainly been one of those players that has attracted a lot of

attention for good reasons. It feels like he is superseded Dwight McClother based on their reps so far, but that can change depending on how they perform. Is this not, and we'll get back to the crystal ball in a second, I'm just not seeing anything right now, but is this not as far as a preseason goes, like the most interesting one in quite a while. Yeah. Because there's just so many things that are important, whether it's the wide receiver depth, somebody's got to step up. Like, Rondell Moore's got to step up and make some plays, or you have a guy like

Zemaya Vaughn that if he plays like he has in practice, then all of a sudden you're going, okay, do they actually have like a young, impressive secondary with him being behind Mackay Blackman? I don't know how much Dallas Turner we're going to see. Actually, if we don't see hardly any, then I would think, well, that's a lot of. a really good sign for them, but a game Murphy has played a lot. We mentioned the interior guys. Even Kobe King is a rookie that I want to see a lot of. I think there's a lot of guys that have something to prove when it comes to this preseason game. Whether you look at guys like

that, Tyrion and Ingrid Dawkins would be another one that I'm curious to see. You have a lot of those players. I mean, even going to the offense, you know, trying to figure out how that offensive line comes together. If Ryan Kelly is not playing a lot, What does that look like? Because Ryan Kelly, the cap hit after this year, I think they saved like $11.5 million if he is not here next year. So if they don't need him going forward, that's something that I think is worth keeping in mind. You have a lot of those questions about young offensive linemen. How can all of those things come together?

And the wide receiver depth, you mentioned, I think that's going to be interesting to watch. I think the question of, you know, whether you're not. it's Ty Chandler or Xavier Scott a running back for RB3, I think, is worth watching as well. And then, of course, the quarterbacks. And it's not just Jason McCarthy here. You have to figure out, are they happy with Sam Howell? Is Brett Rippin going to push for a spot? We've seen Brett Rippen with the twos.

Yeah, we've seen him with the twos more. Max Brosemar, I think they like, probably on a little more of a developmental role. But there are a lot of things there, whether it's those guys to Michael Juergens, to the receivers, to the guys you mentioned, the defensive line, the corner. there's enough interesting stuff to look at, and then, of course, the overarching question, not to play the hits too much, but J.J. McCarthy, where are they going to be with him coming through it? Even the fact that he's playing, we have not seen that from the quarterbacks all the time, and the discussion of might they play him in a third preseason game? I don't think

as a conversation I've ever heard Kevin O'Connell have out loud about a starter here in the past. I don't know that they will, but even the fact that there may be a second. scenario where they do that, it does lead to a little more reason to watch these games. If they do start him in the third preseason game, I think I'm not a good sign. Yeah, right. That's one of those read the tea leaves that they feel

like he needs even more reps than he's already gotten. How about this? I'm seeing in the crystal ball a PFF grade. I don't think this has ever happened before. I don't think the crystal ball has ever shown us a PFF grade, but I can't see it. For a Tennial crystal ball

this thing is It's gotten very analytical. It actually gets smarter year after year. Yeah, it's continued to evolve with the time. See, when it got here, it had no idea if Sam Bradford was coming back. When all of us knew he wasn't, so it was kind of a little behind. We had to train it. It's like machine language learning.

Exactly. It's like AI, enhanced crystal ball. Exactly. Anyway, so this grade, I'm seeing kind of a color, but I can't tell what it is. But I see the name, Donovan Jackson. And there's a ranking of where he's going to rank by PFF among guards. but I can't tell what, can you see it better than me? Is it, are we trying to see it?

We're looking at regular season ranking. Regular season overall among starters. Use the filters. Yeah, and the grade looks like a, I think it's, the color would be yellow. I think it looks like it's like a 68. I think it's kind of about what I'm seeing for the PFF grade for the season.

Like he's done some good things probably later in the year. It has kind of figured out what he's doing. especially as he gets a little more comfortable with that offensive line, with the new pieces, I would assume is kind of where we're going here, especially when a number of those guys haven't been on the field that much. But, yeah, it looks like a serviceable rookie year. I think if you got that from a left guard as a rookie, you'd probably be okay with it. What do you want to see from him?

Because my observation so far is if he faces Javon Hargrave every game... It's going to be a problem. It's going to be a problem. I don't think every team has Javon Hargrave, but I think his run block has been really good so far. The run game has looked excellent behind him, but I can't really tell until you get into the actual games. I mean, we're all so focused on receivers and McCarthy, and then if someone gets through, we go, well, we don't have a replay of the play. So I don't think I have a good sense for how good he's been so far. The praise from O'Connell, and we have gotten better at reading O'Connell's between the lines.

is basically like keep fighting kid. That's what I hear from O'Connell is like I know you're getting whipped out there sometimes by these great players, but keep fighting kid. What do you want to see from him against the Texans? Well, I think a lot of figuring him out is how does he do against different defenses than the one we've seen? Because he is dealing with about as tough of a challenge as you're going to get in terms of the different pressure packages coming off of just the number of people they have up front that can win a one-on-one. and just straight up beat you. So I don't know that you're going to see everything that we need to learn about him in the preseason because I don't think you're going to see as many stunts and games and some of the things overload blitzes that people might do.

I would imagine that if you're looking at this lion, if you're an early season team scouting the Vikings, you're saying let's try to attack number 74. Let's try to test whether he is astute enough and well established enough with the people he's playing around to understand who's taking whom on a stunt. If we send extra pressure, does he know the guy he's supposed to take and the guy that he's supposed to let through? I would imagine that there's going to be a lot of efforts to test him early because you look everywhere else. It's like Ryan Kelly and Will Fries, you can say, well, they're new, but those two guys have played together enough that you don't really just. how to attack there, the tackles are as good as they come in the NFL. So if you're looking for a weak spot or at least in an experienced spot in this line, it's going to be there. So I don't

know that we're going to get all of the answers to that in the preseason just because you do see such vanilla defenses from everybody. But even in that, if you see him getting beat on stunts and, you know, a blitz package here and there, as much as we're going to get those things in the preseason, that's kind of what I want to see, is how does he hold up there? Because I would imagine he's going to get a lot of exposure to those things early and his ability to handle them is going to be important. I wonder if Kevin O'Connell wants the Texans. I know sometimes coaches have conversations about, hey, what do we want to see? What do you want to see to get the most out of both of us? I wonder if they want to see that. Because that's what's in vogue right now

in the NFL and probably will be for a long time, which is just deception. And Flores is the deception king right now in the NFL, but you can guarantee the other teams have tape. And they're going to do a lot of the same stuff. And it is often like turning guys the wrong way, getting their eyes going the wrong way. I want to make it so you're blocking no one. Exactly. Exactly. And that's really hard to figure out. And I asked Donovan that on one of his first days. And he basically said like, yeah, it's way more complex. But this is where to me, Ryan Kelly is so important. Because last year we saw how much, well, I end Christian Darry saw in his health. We saw how much Dar esau impacted Brando. I think Kelly, if you just do what Ryan Kelly tells you to do, you should be okay.

He is really excellent. It's sorting through all the mud when it comes to the different looks. But if you don't know the calls and you're not locked in or you forget something in the pressure of the moment, then, you know, you could see some mistakes. I expect some mistakes from him, but I think his athleticism really helps him survive mistakes, which is what Kevin O'Connell is talking about. And I just want to see some comfort. I want to see some violence.

That's really it from Donovan Jackson. I don't care what his grade is for this preseason game. Those don't correlate that well to the real season. I just want to see him look like a difference-making guard on some plays. Well, and I think the other piece to consider with him, too, I do expect this team's going to run the ball more than we've seen it. I think that's going to be a bigger piece of their offense than it's been with Kevin, certainly with Kevin O'Connell, and we can go back to the Mike Zimmer era when that was he wanted to run the ball.

If I recall correctly, it seemed like a big component of what he wanted. Was that a similar thing? Yeah, he seemed to think establishing a run. Did he bring it up? Occasionally, here and there. But I think, at least speaking of the Kevin O'Connell era, this is going to look different. And I think part of the reason for that is it's a way to make things a little easier for your young quarterback. If you're not putting him in third and eight and those downs become a lot more difficult for him to make plays consistently, you want him in third and two or second and four a lot more often than they've been able to do it.

And I think if you get Jackson as part of a running game, part of an interior offensive line that can push downhill, be more physical, they have bigger people in those spots than they've had in the past, they have a bigger running back. And Jordan Mason, who I think is going to get a fair amount of work, even if he's effective in that facet of the game to make things easier for McCarthy, you're going to deal with some things in the passing game. I think there's going to be some learning moments, some bumps in the road.

but if you can get a solid contribution in the running game, I do think that's going to be something they use more, and I think it's going to be important. To me, it's all about the health around him because if you have a completely healthy O line and one guy has some lack of experience and he's working through it, that could be helped. Two guys, three guys, as we've seen in the past, you cannot help.

All right, look into the crystal ball. Look into the crystal ball now, and it's just got a logo, and that logo is the NFC, North's logo. Does it have a logo? Yeah, it looks like it's got the end with the three stars in the middle of it. Yeah, okay, sure. That's the NFC North logo. It's the NFC logo, I guess, and they put North on the bottom, right?

I guess so. Yes. Well, it made... Not a great division logo on mine, but I think that's what it is. AI is not perfect. That's why we do this. So it made up an NFC North logo, and it wants you to look into the crystal ball and tell me it's got the standings, but I can't really see them. So I'm going to give you fan duels over-unders on the NFC North teams,

and you tell me what you're seeing in this crystal ball. ball. So right now on Fanduil, it is minus 210, so it's a little bit juice toward the over here, but it's Chicago. 6.5 wins is there over under, but it is leaning toward the over. Yeah. But 6.5, are you seeing more wins than that for the bears? Boy, that's a tough one. I think I see just under that. It looks like maybe a six. Oh. Because the division's tough. is tough. I'm not sold on what they're doing. I mean, I think Ben Johnson was a good hire, but just the goofy stuff coming out of there. I think we talked about this last week. The number of coaches you see kind of do the goofy stuff. This is not a scientific study by any means,

but it just gives a vibe of, like, okay, I'm not sure what's going on here. And if he clicks with Kayla, it's going to come down and does he click with Caleb Williams. If he does, I think they could be a factor in the division. But I tend to think with that, that it's better to assume the under and be proven wrong rather than giving them faith, because I think I've done that in the past and probably been burned by it. I also think that there is only one man Campbell. There is only one. And it's sort of like there's only one hoodie.

There's only one Bill Belichick. And all emulators have come out as messed up as our crystal ball. Yeah. Like they just, they can't do the same stuff. Like Dan Campbell, it's so authentic. organic to what a crazy man he is, that everyone's like, yeah, let's go. But when a nerd offensive coordinator does it, is a guy, are you a psycho? And so I'm not totally convinced that they're going to learn the way they want to learn.

And it just seems like every report coming out of Chicago is this is not working so far with Caleb. So I'm going to lean toward with the sample size of last year that you're probably right. Under six and a half is just so little. But how about Green Bay here on Fandul, seven and a half for Green Bay? Seven and a half. And it is leaning also toward the over. Yeah, I would take the over on that. I think, I mean, that's a team that typically is not equal to the sum of its parts.

I think their defense for years has had lots of first-round picks that haven't done the job well enough. I have a lot of questions about Jordan Love. I have a lot of questions about that secondary. And I have a lot of questions about that defense's ability as a whole to. answer the bell when it needs to do it. But there's enough talent there. And it sounds like Matthew Golden has had a good camp from the things you see from reporters coming out of there. There's enough talent there that that should be better than a seven and a half win team. And again, they typically are pretty good at finding ways to stub their toe. But no, I would

take the over on that. I just can't see Matt Lafleur unless it all falls apart. And I think there's a little bit of an overrating of, oh, they didn't do enough in the off season, but they were still a good team last year. I don't think that they're great, and I don't think they can win the Super Bowl, but I do think they're probably a double-digit win or a nine-win team at least. Okay, one more. Another typical win-10 and get bounced in the first round kind of thing. Right. That's kind of how it feels. Detroit and over under is just eight and a half. Eight and a half. There must be some skepticism here, yeah? Well, the brain drain with Johnson and Glenn gone, I suppose, and Frank Ragnow gone, you know, that I think is a big question. Boy,

I would take the over there, too. I think Jared Goff and the way he has played with all of those weapons, I think they're going to score enough points. Aidan Hutchinson being back, that defense is being healthy is a big change, and I think they have enough talent across the board to be better than that. And, yeah, Dan Campbell just has something special going there. I think a lot of those players have bought in to what he does. I think there is a belief in the way they go about things

that helps them circumvent things in a lot of those moments. And, no, I would take the over there, too. When we were talking about Dan Campbell before, it reminded me, Mike Zimmer interviewed him for the offensive coordinator job one of those years that they were cycling through coordinators, which was kind of an annual exercise. But can you imagine Dan Campbell as Mike Zimmer's offensive coordinator, what that would have been like? I feel like it would have been a perfect fit. They're both insane. Yeah, they're both just crazy football people. I think they worked together for Parcells, too.

So it's kind of from that Parcells tree with Bowles and Sean Payton. and Dan Campbell and, you know, a lot of those coaches that came through that staff are of similar approaches to things. It would have been very interesting. It either would have been perfect or at some point two guys who are that headstrong would have butted heads and it probably would have been spectacular. Either way, I think it may have been a spectacular result. It's just, what type of spectacular would it have been? Okay, last thing for you. and then we've got to run to practice. I have the Vikings at 11 wins.

That's what my crystal ball says. It's not always accurate. And the two Super Bowl favorites from the AFC and NFC on Fanduil are the Ravens and the Eagles. So tell me how you feel about those prognostications of me saying this Vikings team will win 11 and that the Ravens and Eagles will be in the Super Bowl. I am fairly comfortable with all three of those ideas. I think the Vikings winning 11 is very plausible. The question is J.J. McCarthy, of course. The schedule is tougher, yes.

But a lot of this stuff with the schedule when you keep seeing win percentages and where they rank, one of the reasons for that is that they play the entire NFC North. So you're going to see those NFC North win percentages get jacked up. The strength schedule get jacked up because all of those teams are here. One thing to remember with the NFC North is everybody, yes, there were good teams, but everybody got fat on the AFC South. So are all of those teams 13, 14 win teams? teams this year, probably not.

They don't play the AFC South this year, so you have to factor that in. It's the AFC North, which is a lot tougher. The Vikings have a particularly nasty stretch that involves the Eagles and Ravens in, I think, back-to-back home games with a Chargers Thursday night involved in all of that. That's going to be tough. Well, maybe it's Chargers and then at Lions and Ravens. I can't remember exactly, but that's the four-game stretch. It's Eagles, Chargers, and then Lions, Ravens, or Ravens, Lions.

Really nasty stretch. So the schedule is tougher. Overall, though, I think there's enough talent here. I think the defense is going to be even better than what it was last year. And if that offensive line is able to keep McCarthy clean, I don't see how they're not in that 10 to 11. I mean, I don't know if I'll pick them to win 10 or 11, but I think right in that range.

And I think I learned my lesson last year. I had them win in seven games last year, in part because I wasn't sure about Sam Darnold. I will give Kevin O'Connell the benefit of the doubt this year when he is saying, no, I don't need Sam Darnold back. no, I'm not going to pay enough to get Daniel Jones, or at least make enough promises to Daniel Jones to keep him here. I'm going to say thanks, but no thanks to Aaron Rogers, because I trust Jay J.J. McCarthy. I think he's done enough good work with quarterbacks that I'm going to err on the side of trusting it this time.

I think. And as far as the Super Bowl, yeah, I mean, the Eagles have all the talent in the world coming back. I think the chiefs are probably due to get usurped by somebody in that conference. I think the Ravens are in as good a spot as anybody to do it. So I think those are all reasonable. This is a year, I think, for either Buffalo or Baltimore, like, they've been going along long enough. Like, this is the Rogers' one Super Bowl or Bree's one Super Bowl.

Like, I think that Jackson and Allen will be those guys. Finally slay the demon. Yeah, exactly. Ben Gessling, there is a newsletter. If you guys didn't know, now Star Tribune that Ben writes, what, every couple days? Every Friday comes out. It's an inbox. It's noon every Friday.

And how would folk sign up for that? that. Yeah. So you can find on any of my socials, there's a subscription link to Access Vikings. It's free. If you just Google Access Vikings newsletter, you can find ways to sign up for that there. So it comes every Friday. Put your email address in there. You'll get it and we won't bug you with other stuff. But yeah, we'll do that every Friday in the season. Then typically Mondays after games, there's a special edition with the top of my game story and then links to a lot of our coverage. Before this podcast, I looked in the crystal ball. It said that this would be great. And it was. Thanks very much.

It never leads us down the wrong road. Thanks so much, Ben. It's fun, man. Thanks. We'll catch you all soon. Football. Guys, if you watch the show all the time, you know that I'm a hat guy. But if you're wearing hats to cover up for your hair loss, then I've got something that can help you.

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That's H-I-M-S.com slash Purple Insider for your personalized hair loss treatment options. Hym.com slash Purple Insider. Results vary based on studies of topical and oral monoxide and finestriide. Prescription products require an online consultation with a health care provider who will determine if a prescription is appropriate. Restrictions apply. See the website for full details and important safety information. Hey, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Purple Insider.

Matthew Collar here. And look who is back. It is Chris Trappaso now doing trap sheet on substack newsletter right in the NFL every single day, every single week. I see a lot of you. Yeah, I see a lot of you, uh, Chris, writing on your trap sheet newsletter. So make sure you go check that out, especially those of you who read the Purple Insider newsletter as well. And, uh, Chris, I had to bring you back because you are Purple Insiders official draft analyst and we're about to play preseason games. I can't just leave you at the draft and then all right, Chris, I'll see you next, you know, March or February or something. We got to talk about the outlook for Vikings draft picks going forward here in these three preseason games. So what is

going on, man? We got real football coming up here. Yeah, I, I have kind of a weird relationship with the NFL preseason that I'm like most people where I'm like, okay, by the fourth quarter, there's a part of me that's like, why are we watching this? But then, like, as I'm about to turn, say it's a Vikings game, say it's a Bill's game, I'll see some UDFA that I loved three years ago, have an amazing pass rush on the outside, get a strip sack. And I'm like, oh, my God, like, that's the reason why I have to stay glued to these or as many preseason games as I can.

So I'm certainly excited to come back on, talk Vikings, this year's draft class, and even the last few draft classes, and maybe even some UDFAs that I think Quasi had up. Menta has been amazing, not just diving pace, finding those guys on the undrafted free agent ranks that have become quality players that are still relatively young in this Vikings organization. So what I want to do is I want to go through every draft pick from last year, but there's not that many. So why don't we talk about JJ McCarthy? And what we can do here, you know, is go a little back and forth on, you know, your thoughts as far as scouting these players. And then my thoughts as far as what I've seen so far in training camp. The description I would give of

J.J. McCarthy is that it's almost to the letter what I expected. I did not expect J.J. McCarthy to have every single practice be flawless and perfect and have Joe Montana and Joe Burroughs accuracy right off the bat. But I also expected to see a lot of high moments from him in training camp. And we've definitely seen those. A lot of great throws into the intermediate. area especially looks like he's pretty well in command of the offense. But now some preseason action, the first time that America gets to see J.J. McCarthy in an entire year. So what do you want to see from him in the preseason? Well, we talked about it over the last four or five years that when you're picking a quarterback in the first round, I'm always looking for those high splash plays

that you're like referencing. So yes, we will see an airmailed throw toward the sideline or maybe he holds the ball a little bit too long takes a sack i want to see him maybe elude what looks like a sack or make an amazing throw down the seam on a post route with j jay mccarthy he was kind of like a mixed bag of he gave or i guess at at michigan he was very structured in that system that that he wasn't asked to go do crazy things all the time they ran the football a lot a lot of play action obviously coached by Jim Harbaugh, but I think what made him a first round prospect in the eyes of many. And I certainly had a high first round grade on him in 2024, where all of those

just glimpses of him creating and avoiding sacks against Alabama in the Rose Bowl and the big time arm that he was not really allowed to use very frequently. So for me, I'm not that concerned about him grasping this offense. I think Kevin O'Connell has a very time-tested ability with Sam Darnel, other quarterbacks, Kirk Cousins even, to get high-level production out of his quarterback position. We've talked at nauseam, you and me, about just how good the environment is in Minnesota. But we've also talked going back to wanting Trey Lance and Zach Wilson and maybe those were wrong. But a lot of other quarterbacks, we were like, aim high, aim for that home run. I want to see just a few. It doesn't need to be a ton. I don't think McCarthy is going to necessarily

throw 200 passes in the preseason. But just that. oh, man, I don't know if Kirk Cousins could have made that throw or I don't know if Case Keenum ever stepped out of that pressure and turned it into a positive play. That's what I want to see most in year two, but it's kind of the rookie season for J.J. McCarthy with the Vikings. Yeah, and there's two areas where I think he can do that. You mentioned one of them, which is out of structure when something goes wrong. And we saw a little bit of it in the last preseason game, but we've seen a lot of him trying to do it in training camp. It's where some of his bigger miscues has gone, have come from in training camp, but I like that he's trying to do it. I wouldn't like if

J.J. McCarthy just stood there, took a sack and said, all right, on to the next rep. Like you want to see him trying to escape the pocket, trying to make plays. But I think he's got to try to decide also when is the right time to do that because last year in the preseason, his one interception was outside the pocket, kind of a risky throw that wasn't quite on the money. Receiver didn't quite understand where he needed to be and it ends up with an interception. We've seen that a few times in training camp in the night practice rolling out almost throws an interception to the back of the end zone where he should have thrown the ball away. I think he has a very natural like I'm a dude. I'm a playmaker. I'm going to make something happen here. So you have to balance it. But I would

much rather, as Mike Zimmer once said, I'd rather say, woe than go when it comes to playmaking. And, you know, I think also confidence in his athleticism. We've seen him turn it up. We've seen him run full speed a few times in camp, but it is how he got hurt last year, uh, was scrambling in the preseason. I'm looking for something a little bit different. I am looking a little bit more for command of the offense. Now I think he's done a good job with that so far in training camp, but now you're getting out in front of 65,000 people that'll be at US Bank Stadium and the, you know, the TV audience

and the pressure and everything else. It's different than just being on the practice field. So how does he look in control of the offense? Does the operation get in and out of the huddle? Are there pre-snap penalties? Are there guys looking around like, wait, I was supposed to be over there. And especially because he won't have Jefferson. I'm not sure if Addison's going to play.

Maybe he will because he suspended the first couple games. But other than that, I mean, you're talking about other receivers mixing in like Rondale Moore, Thayer Thomas, guys that might not have it fully locked in where the quarterback has to say, no, actually that motion, you got to go over here. You see the quarterback pointing, handing out assignments and stuff like that. Does he look like he is in total control of the offense? And then like you said, if a throw goes bad, yeah, okay, all right.

Well, you know, he's going to work his way into that, like getting back in the rhythm of throwing, throwing the football in real games. But the operation, a couple weeks into training camp, should be pretty sharp at this point. Yeah, I agree. And I think that is important just given his timeline that we didn't really see him last season outside of a very small audition in the preseason, I think it's good to look for that. I'll say as someone that scouted him, I'm not concerned about him lacking command in the offense.

Like he stepped on the field in Ann Arbor at Michigan. And you would always hear Jim Harbaugh say, like, this guy's Patrick Mahomes. Like he was not someone that had to wait two or three or four years before he became a starter. He was a starter early in his career. And for as much as he, I think, got unfairly hit. with that label of, oh, like, why isn't Michigan featuring him? It's just they didn't need to.

They had a great defense and a great run game. There were never games where it was deer in headlights for J.J. McCarthy at Michigan. So I'm not really concerned about his ability to take command of the offense. And I will just kind of put a bow on this with your point about it's better to be woe than go. We're not even 10 minutes into this episode and I'll use a Josh Allen reference. That's how he was as a rookie. Like there were times where he was doing those Derek Jeter throwing across his body, leaping into the air down field where, sure, in the moment, those were bad decisions.

But Josh Allen was on every snap trying to make a play. And by the end of his rookie season on what wasn't that good of a Bill's team, those better splash plays off-structure plays outweighed the bad. So I certainly think that J.J. McCarthy has that innate playmaking ability to him, which is why that's what I want to see from him because I'm not concerned about him being comfortable. I think he's kind of a natural born leader and a natural born quarterback. Yeah, I think so too. I think he's looked very comfortable leading this team really from you got to see. You're right. Yeah. I mean, so that's right. That's not a huge doubt,

but it's a little bit of like, hey, look like you're on the same trajectory that you were before last year. And then as you said, make a couple plays that get Vikings fans excited about the game because that's all you can really ask. I don't think he's going to going to play, you know, like you said, I don't think he's going to throw 30 passes in this game. But how much would you play him? I would consider the entire first half. I mean, this is somebody who has not played a lot of football. And I know it's concerning with the preseason. And I've always been the guy who's banging the drama of don't play anyone important in the preseason. I'm going to make an exception here for this guy who really needs to be as ready as

he possibly can be week one. Yeah, I've mostly been of the same belief. as you that when you have important starters, they shouldn't really play in the preseason. But this is a different situation. He's an outlier, you know, being a first round pick and not playing his entire rookie season in the regular season. It makes sense to give him some more opportunities. I would say if you want to get really granular with it, tell me who's going to be the starting offensive line for the Vikings. And are they facing a first team defensive front if you are going to see a first team defensive front, but you don't want to play any of your blockers, then that's probably not the best situation, especially for a

quarterback who got injured last season or last year in the preseason. So yeah, I agree with you that give him a little bit more runway early in this preseason just to get his footing and get all those mental reps too, like you said, getting guys aligned, checking protections, things like that, that you want to have at a higher level ready for week one for the Vikings. I think that maybe Kevin O'Connell will walk over to D'Amico Ryans and ask politely that he not play some of their best players like Will Anderson and DeNeal Hunter because the Vikings won't have Christian Derisaw. They also very likely won't have Ryan Kelly. And the backup center situation has been a little suspect so far in camp. And that's been a major issue really for McCarthy and learning the offense is without Derisaw. And Donovan Jackson, who we're going to get to next is just starting to learn this offense. and then they're going against Hargrave and Allen and Harrison Phillips. And it's it's been a little bit and a lot of different blitzes from Flores. That's really been the times where you've thought, okay,

McCarthy looks like he's, you know, just facing a ton of pressure here. I don't think he's handled it horribly, but it's just when it's kind of down in and down out. It has been challenging. So maybe if Houston gets in the second team pretty quickly there, he's got an opportunity with those blockers. And we also know you need your starting line.

if you're going to be really great this year. Let's talk about Donovan Jackson. I'll tell you first what I've seen in camp and then you can tell me what you want to see in preseason. I've seen a guy that has exceptional, exceptional physical capabilities. He is as wide as a tackle, but he's a guard. And he moves bodies in the run game. I think he can get underneath guys.

I think he's got some nastiness to him where you'll see him drive somebody and drive somebody and you're like, okay, Donovan, okay, like that's, now it's time to stop at the end of the play, which is, again, a good thing. Pass protection, though, he's playing next to a left tackle. He's not going to be there usually in just in school as opposed to Christian Darrasaw. And I think he's gotten pushed back, you know, a number of times by someone like Javon Hargrave, who is as good as it gets in the league. But there's clearly work that needs to be done when it comes to pass protection for Donovan Jackson. It's really interesting that. that that's how you kind of frame what you've seen, like, your observations with Jackson.

I was looking back at my scouting report just now that that's what I thought, like what you're saying that he's been really good at, just pulverizing people in the run game, that was an area that I thought he needed to improve upon. I thought from an athleticism and balance and getting across a gap laterally from those perspectives, that's why he was my number one interior offensive lineman in this class. And I thought, now what you said at the end kind of makes sense that, his past protection was good because the feet are so important today with how quick those Javon Hargrave types are at defensive tackle.

But I wrote that like he needs to get a little bit of a stronger anchor, which if anyone has listened to our draft show the last four or five years, I repeatedly say this, 99% of rookie offensive linemen need more time to get stronger. The only one that I ever reference is Tristan Wirps. And Christian Derisaw is probably the one beat to that. where they can come in, they're big enough and truly NFL strong right away. But someone like Donovan Jackson, who has, I think, all the athletic ability to be an all-pro guard, what you're hinting at is probably what I want to see, just continuing what I thought was kind of a weakness,

moving people in the run game, but then also playing with that anchoring power that I'm assuming, I've never been an offensive lineman in my life, has to be difficult to play with power as you're being pushed backwards, to be able to grow those roots and not allow yourself to get pushed into J.J. McCarthy, that's what I want to see, just more of the power from him, because I think athletically and some of the reach blocks that Kevin O'Connell is going to ask of him, that Ed Ingram could not necessarily execute, I have no concerns about Donovan Jackson being able to do those. It's really about the power and the strength on a down-to-down basis for him. So it looks to me like with Jordan Mason in the mix and then Aaron Jones,

both of those running backs histories are in the outside zone and they brought in an assistant offensive line coach to help with the run game whose history also is in that outside zone. And when Jackson is moving in that system where, you know, a lot of times there are like outside pitches and you see the whole line moving at once and it takes really good athletes to get out there. That's where he looks really exceptional. And screen game, I think he, the same way. The movement skill is clearly special. But what I do like is even though he's been pushing, back and then that's going to happen for really strong and excellent veteran players who are 30. I think he's been a fighter where it's not like one of the problems and it's hard

not to compare it to their most recent guy at Ingram was the losses were so fast and just what happened there. It was if he got beat initially, there was no recovery. And I think this has always been just to compare it to another Vikings lineman, a Brian O'Neill cheat code is O'Neill's athleticism is so great that even if he loses the initial punch or the initial move, he can recover and stay alive in the rep. And I think Donovan Jackson has done really well with that. Yeah, you can definitely take this is kind of going back to scouting stuff, can go back watching offensive linemen, whether it's guards or tackles. And you just mentioned both that you can learn a lot from their losses. And that is something that I always write

pre-draft process. Does he have recovery skill or not? And Donovan Jackson certainly had that. He didn't lose often at Ohio State, but last year when he was forced to play Lekyll after Josh Simmons injury, there were early on some games where it was like he was trying to get his bearings playing tackle, but he was not losing in under two or, you know, under one and a half seconds and just completely washed out of the play. So that is really important. And it's why I think so many teams and so many draft analysts like myself, like lean toward those high caliber athletes.

I'll even use the bills again for an example. Dion Dawkins and Spencer Brown in Buffalo, two high caliber tackles. When you watch them, like, they're both very good, especially Dawkins, but they lose a fair amount. They just don't ever get completely obliterated where Josh Allen's under pressure immediately forced out of the pocket. They can recover. And I think Donovan Jackson, and actually, I mean, frankly,

a lot of the blockers on the Vikings offensive line have that trait. So I think that goes hand in hand. When you're a big time athlete, you're great in the wide zone game. and the play action bootleg stuff, even if you lose right away, you have just enough athletic skill to get your feet somewhat in front of your assignment to push him away, maybe even just for another half a second. That's the difference between a sack or a completion. Like J.J. McCarthy, I want to see a lot of Donovan Jackson.

I think that the development curve is extremely difficult for offensive linemen. And the more that he can get out there against other people, the better it's going to be for him. The Vikings third round pick, Ty Felton, has lived with the second team so far. We haven't seen him get in with the first team very often. And my feeling on him, Chris, is that the athleticism, the speed, there's even some power to him, even though he's a little bit on the slender side, all that stuff has shown up. And the occasional really excellent ball tracking has shown up where it's a difficult catch. There was one that was up over his head that he kind of had to track over his body and drop

into his hands. But there's a lot to work on the way that I see Felton right now, the route running and refining. And we've made sort of baby deer references with Ty Felton. He's another guy that, you know, I think did the right things, staying at Maryland and developing. But that also means playing less football than guys who transfer to three different colleges to make sure that their wide receiver one or something like that. Yeah. So I see it. I see why they drafted him. I think he is going to have a great shot at being their starting kick return. Turner, like right off the bat, but I also see refinement that's going to be necessary. Yeah, that's interesting. I, I'm very fascinated to watch him in the preseason. And you can

probably answer the question, like, how much do you expect him to play with the Jordan Addison suspension? I know Jalen Naylor, and from what I've read, has had a pretty good camp. He's kind of solidified himself as wide receiver three, but obviously early in the season without Addison, like does that give Ty Felton some runway or is it someone else? Why I'm fascinated to watch him is that I think, I mean, whether they've had a lot of scrimmages or that night practice, whatever, I don't think for receivers you can glean much about their yards after the catchability in training camp. And that was like to me outside of, you know, the fact that he did hit some big plays, has good speed, tracked it pretty well in general. I didn't think Ty Felton was

this tremendous Stefan Diggs level route runner. I thought he was like sneaky good after the catch on screens on RPO drag routes, things like that, slants where you don't need a lot of refinement and I didn't see against someone that was super polished. I just wonder if maybe it'll coincide with J.J. McCarthy getting the ball out quick where they don't want him to get hit. They want him to make a quick decision, get it to, you know, Felton on a tunnel screen, a bunch of different screens and then let him work, bounce off tacklers and create with his athleticism after the catch because I thought that was for as much as he kind of got labeled

as a vertical speedster. I saw him make a ton of plays. And his mistackle force rate was almost 30% in his college career, 28.5%, which is a very high number, especially for a third round pick. So for as much as I certainly believe that what you're saying, that maybe the refinement hasn't been there as a route runner where he's not just open all the time like Jordan Addison was or Justin Jefferson were as rookies in their first training camps, I think Felton can really show what he can do after the catch when there's actually tackling in the game. Right. And with those other receivers, we are talking about guys who were first round draft picks, expected to be great right away. And, you know, someone like Felton, I think is going to need

a refinement is the word I keep coming back to because I see like the potential for those routes to get sharper, but that's going to take, you know, a year of playing in the NFL and then an off season of continuing to work with whoever he works with, you know, outside of there, but knowing what it's going to really take. He could have some impact right away. I think kick returning is a good chance for him because he does have that ability with the football in his hands to really shine in a preseason game where you could see him breaking off a big return.

The explosion for somebody who's six foot one, the explosiveness is really something to see because usually you see those guys are more like 510, 5, 9 when you get that lightning quick first step. So I want to see that in the kick return game. And I think for now, like the outlook for 2025, if we're just being fair to Ty Felton is probably to mix in occasionally and you don't really want him having to play a complete role. And then next year, that's when he steps into that wide receiver three type of situation. But I think that there's the most potential for Ty Felton of maybe anybody on the entire team to come out of a preseason game and be like, what was that? Like, whoa.

Well, yeah, when you mentioned kick returning, I mean, he's not not the same pedigern. degree and not quite the same stylistically, but it kind of reminds me of Cordarelle Patterson that like he was super unrefined coming out of Tennessee. And they're like, oh, he kind of does know how to run routes. He's not getting open. But he's so good after the catch. Let's get him the ball with as much space as you could possibly get, you know, on a kick return or on a punt return. So not saying that he's necessarily going to be as accomplished as Patterson, who's been one of the best returners in the NFL in the last like 15 years. But I do like that idea for him right away, it's like, look, man, don't worry about, does the corner know my route?

Can he read my tells as a route runner? Just use what you mentioned, his dynamic athleticism. And again, for being 6-1 and like under 200 pounds, he's actually pretty good bouncing off tacklers, like I mentioned. So that would be a real, I mean, if you get your third round pick wide receiver on an offense with Justin Jefferson and then when he returns Jordan Addison, and you get Ty Felton to be one of the better return man in the NFC, I think, and then, you know, 20, 30, 40 catches.

I think that is a great return on investment for a third round with me. Let's talk about Tyrian Ingram Dawkins, the Vikings fifth round draft pick. I've been impressed, Chris, by. Where's he mostly played? He's mostly played as a three, four defensive tackle. And they have mixed him in, even sometimes when, you know, the veterans are taking a rep off or taking a day off. He's even mixed in a little bit with the ones.

He has gotten in the back feet. field. He's shown his athleticism. Now, I don't want to pump him up to say that this is a guy who's going to play 500 snaps for them this year. But it seems like he is kind of fitting into that 3,4 DE type of role where he can match up kind of right over the tackle and go inside or go outside. I haven't seen much of him an outside linebacker. I don't think that's going to be. I think he's too big for that for this system where you're looking much more of 245 to 250 pound guys, not 270. pound guys. But the athleticism has shown up. And one thing that they really liked about him coming out was intelligence. And I promise you he would not be getting this many reps with the second team and even a little bit with the first team if he was not picking up on on the defense. Now, again, fifth round draft pick. I don't want to make it sound like this is the next superstar for this year. But another guy that will be very interesting to watch in these preseason games of does he flash some of that freaky athletes?

athleticism that he showed at the combine. Well, I asked because I was hoping that you would say that he's mostly playing three, four end because outside linebacker, I think there were maybe some teams that that thought that he could slim down a little bit. I just never felt like Ingram Dawkins had the juice to be like a standup outside linebacker in a three four scheme. He is the consummate three four defensive end to just stack and shed two gap, set a very very sturdy edge. Like you mentioned, he's smart. He played at Georgia, and that Kirby smart

defense is probably as complex as any in college football and is close to a true NFL defense schematically and in terms of the responsibilities. So it's good that I think he's playing the correct position. And maybe if they do use some even man fronts where he could maybe bump inside to defensive tackle, where he'd kind of be a mismatch because of his athleticism at like 64 270, 270, 275 against some stockier guards. So I think position and where he's aligned on the field is absolutely vital for him. And again, even if as a fifth round pick, as a rookie, someone that you're not expecting to generate pressure, wrapping the corner in under two seconds, if he's your 300 to maybe

400, 500 snap rookie that looks the part that isn't getting tossed around and I don't think there's really any strength concerns with him as that 3-4 defense event, that's again another hit on day three for the Vikings. I think it would be huge for them if they could rotate three different guys. Levi Drake Rodriguez, their seventh round pick has taken to me the biggest step of anybody in training camp. And it looks like he's going to be a legitimate part of the rotation. And maybe we'll get to Jalen Redmond a little bit later,

but he's had a very good camp as well. He's kind of establishing himself as that player. So they could have three different guys because you really don't want to have Harrison Phillips, Javon Hargrave and Jonathan Allen just out there. for, you know, 700, 800 snaps. It would be much better to be mixing and matching. I don't want to go too far on that with Ingram Dawkins because I think it's a little bit more of a next year thing with him as well.

But I think we could see in the preseason some moves where again, you go, oh, okay, that must be the guy that they drafted. Another guy who's had a really good camp so far is Kobe King. So you recall Brian Osamaw has kind of been pushed out of this defense. And that remains the truth. as Kobe King has played pretty much every second team rep alongside Eric Wilson. And it looks like their four linebackers are going to be Cashman Pace Jr. And then Eric Wilson and then Kobe King.

And where I've noticed him is physicality. He is, you know, look, I mean, you and I, we grew up watching the same era of football. You know, when you see a linebacker who's a little bit bigger and a little and likes to thump people, likes to get after in his good blitzer and powerful you go there's still place for that there's still a place for that the national football league where they want you know every linebacker to be on the skinnier side so I'm not saying that he's exactly Scott studwell from way back in the day a Viking legend linebacker but yeah I see I see somebody who it looks like he could be exceptional stopping the run and as a blitzer he's been in the backfield a number of times so I've been

impressed with Kobe King? Well, the Vikings have a type. I mean, the fact that Ivan Pace being undrafted at his, I don't want to say size, because I don't think he's necessarily too small. He's just a little bit short. And he's an awesome run defender, great blitzer. Like, that's in, round six with Kobe King. If you're getting that type of player, it's fitting your prototype for Brian Flores' defense. I was a little bit lower on him just because I wasn't sure in coverage. And again, that's grading him as just a prospect in general. I don't know where he's going. But you could make the case that Kobe King was the most physical linebacker in the

entire class. Like ahead of Jahad Campbell and Carson Swessinger, you know, like the first pick of the second round, in terms of just thumping downhill and having that presence alongside Ivan Pace, where teams are going to, I don't want to say think twice, but teams aren't going to be like, hey, the Vikings are soft inside. We can just run up the middle and get five yards and get it to second and five. He was as good as any linebacker in this class. So it's not surprising at all.

Very polished, played a lot of snaps at at Penn State that you're telling me that he's looked apart on those interior runs inside the box is kind of that throwback linebacker that is kind of a dying breed. But there are still a few of those players in the NFL. Yeah. And I think that the assessment after the draft and when we broke down his game, I think your assessment is right on the money, which is that you're not looking for Kobe King to be.

a guy who plays a thousand snaps and is going to cover George Kittle or something in the slot. Like, that's just not who he is. But I think he can be a major contributor to special teams right away. And I think he is somebody that if you get a guy banged up and then you're moving in and out with Eric Wilson or something like that, then he can come in the game in certain situations and then maybe develop into a little bit more of an all around linebacker. He's not ever going to run a four or three all of a sudden at the linebacker position, but could be a contributor and somebody who I see is having a lot of natural instincts. Gavin Bartholomew will not play their sixth round draft pick tight end and thus ends the draft class because

there weren't that many picks. There are a couple undrafted free agents. We're very interested in Zemaya Vaughn out of Utah is one of them who has stepped up and performed really, really well so far. Who else do you want to hear about as a draft guy? Like who and it doesn't have to be from this year's class, of course, just any recently, who do you want to hear about who do you want to see in this preseason game? Yeah, so I started off this episode talking about how I like watching third and fourth quarter preseason games to find these former players that I, that I feel like slipped through the cracks in the undrafted ranks or just late round picks. Gabriel Murphy and Jalen Redmond. Jalen Redman is one that, which I know he played last season. Gabriel

Murphy got hurt, I believe in training camp or mini camp last year, never even played in the preseason. Jalen Redmond was as big of a head scratcher why he went undrafted, maybe more than any other pick the last two years. Because he was at Oklahoma, he was really productive, and then he had a crazy good combine. And I thought, like, I think I had a second round grade on him. I had, I just checked ahead, a late second round grade on Gabriel Murphy. And I just went back to look at Murphy.

So, like, you can tell me how these guys have been. I remember, like, Murphy getting the label of, oh, he's too small. He's over 6-2 and around 250 pounds. Like Uchena Nuwosu of the Chargers and the Seahawks, like he's around that size. I don't think if you're this blitzing movable chest piece, outside linebacker, rusher, that's not too small. And he is, from what I remember at UCLA,

incredibly well polished with his handwork. So those two undrafted free agents from last year's Vikings, undrafted class to me are the most fascinating to watch in the preseason. So as far as Jalen Redman goes, I think he's going to be a huge part of this defense. And I guess I'm going to have to ask what happened with the draft. He seems like a nice guy. And sometimes nice guys get like labeled as or this guy is not eating glass out there.

He's not a killer. That was the thing with Christian Darrasaw is Daryasaw is a very, very nice person. He's really relaxed when you talk to him. He is not an intense person if you bump into him in public. But in the NFL he is. when he's going to bump into him on the field. Right. If you bump into him on the field, he is. He is extremely intense. And I think sometimes teams make a little bit too much of that type of thing. But Redmond has a burst and a quickness to me that stands out. Like he can get in the backfield. He can make tackles for loss. And I, we are going to see him in the preseason maybe looking for a little bit more growth from him from where he was as a pass rusher. Right. Last year. And as far as I Gabriel Murphy goes, I see the refinement that. you're talking about and he's taken every second team rep as an outside linebacker. Even when Dallas Turner is with the second team, you're still seeing Gabriel Murphy in

there. It's Bo Richter that they usually sub out. So Gabe will stay in there. The one thing I don't see from him is a jolt to his game. And maybe this is because he's on the field with Dallas Turner who's got a lot of jolt to his game. And that's someone we should talk about before we wrap up as well. But, you know, Gabe, I think is going to have to win. by being extremely fness, yes, and technical and right place, right time, attacking the right hip of the right offensive linemen and, you know, all those types of things that he's going to have to lock in because if his refinement isn't great, if his technical stuff isn't great, then he probably is not going to get to the quarterback because he's not going to be a guy

who just races around the edge and destroys a tackle. And then you're like, oh, wow, that would be Dallas Turner this year, Chris. Turner has had a phenomenal camp. I mean, if we were just naming biggest winners of camp, it is hands down Dallas Turner is my first pick. He's been in the backfield constantly. He's shown a huge growth in terms of his body, huge growth in terms of his pass rush moves. I'm not sure how much he'll play in the preseason, maybe a little bit, but I think he's going to be a huge part of this defense this year. Yeah, I keep thinking back and this is kind of me making fun of myself that during our conversations during the draft cycle the last two years actually there's been like three or four times you could go back where I mistakenly called

Dallas Turner Nolan Smith because those two players to me and being from different schools I feel like Georgia, Alabama are like mirror programs like certainly during like the Nick Saban era and the Kirby Smart eras in conjunction with each other. Those two Dallas Turner Nolan Smith, they were almost identical. Like in, I have pretty much the same grade on both of them when they were coming out. They similar size, similar length, burst, but like needed like a year to like learn the nuances of the position. And we saw it at times with Dallas Turner last year, didn't play a ton.

It certainly helped to have an all pro and Andrew Van Ginkle and Jonathan Granard there at the edge rusher spot in Minnesota. But we saw that in the second year, last year for Nolan Smith. Philadelphia and he was huge in that Super Bowl like oh the strength is there the pass rush moves he understands this offensive tackle is setting really wide so I'm going to fake to the outside and swim back to the inside those things that were happening on the fly for Nolan Smith by the end of his second season I think can happen in year two for Dallas Turner those are big time recruits who were that you know dynamic athlete at edge rusher that have literally all pro ability so

not really surprised that Dallas Turner was not this hit the ground running type, just like Nolan Smith wasn't in Philadelphia, but by year two or year three, I think you could be talking about, all right, they got to start thinking about an extension for someone in Dallas Turner because there's just so much natural ability that Brian Flores can tap into. And I think he's a huge swing man for this defense in general. If he is really good this year, then they have one of the nastiest front sevens, one of the deepest front sevens. That's really been the biggest takeaway from camp is like, this looks really good. And the thing I wanted to see from him was just his body.

I get, get bigger, get faster, get stronger because he was not ready to come into the league and dominate last year as a 21 year old. But I think, yeah, we talked about that a lot. We talked about like the difference between. I'm looking at the ages right now that, uh, what was Jared verse came into the league almost 24 years old and Dallas Turner was 21. So like that was always what we mentioned during last year when people were like, hey, why is Dallas Turner? Like, look at all these other players that are making a big impact at the edge as rookies. Two years of difference is huge, like you're mentioning, for the body type. Just even if you want to forget about development and pass rush moves, two years of ability to just get stronger is considerably a huge margin,

especially at the edge rush or spot. Yep. And working with Jonathan Grenard, I think, has been enormous for him in terms of improving. improving the body, but also improving the bag as well. And he's dropping back in coverage from time to time, which I think they're going to do. It's a really dynamic piece. So a ton to watch in this first preseason game for the Minnesota Vikings. Chris Trappaso trap sheet. Look it up on substack. Make sure you subscribe and the Purple Insider newsletter as well. We'll talk to you very soon, Chris. Great to see you again, my friend. Thanks, Matt. Say, say football. Go ahead. Football.

Thank you.