Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Ben Goessling breaks down KOC's comments on Vikings free agency (NO RODGERS TALK!)

Episode Date: April 1, 2025

Following breakfast with Kevin O'Connell at the NFL Owners Meetings, Matthew Coller and the Minnesota Star Tribune's Ben Goessling breakdown everything O'Connell had to say about Minnesota's offseason.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Coller here along with Ben Gessling of the Star Tribune from the Breakers in West Palm Beach at the NFL Owners' Meetings. We just wrapped up a very long conversation about Kevin O'Connell that, believe it or not, did not include Aaron Rod in any way so that means folks you can enjoy this podcast you can sit back you won't feel any rage any stress you'll have the same vibes as us here which is just chilling in 80 degree weather so you can metaphorically have the same vibes of us not probably

literally because I hear there's snow in Minnesota we're both going back to it today so you can roll your eyes at us talking about the weather. We're about to lose it. But yeah, metaphorically, you can have the same vibes because the first time I've heard Aaron Rodgers' name today is when you just said it. Did not come up once with KOC. So kick back and enjoy some talk about what Kevin O'Connell

had to say about the free agents, the Vikings signed slash acquired one running back via trade because we asked them about every single one so I don't want to hear about it anymore. You guys don't ask the Vikings about their free agents. Well we did today so we've got a lot to say about that. I actually. Apology letters are coming just around the corner. I want to begin in a very random place because I actually thought it was the most interesting comment of the day and that is with Isaiah Rogers. Now, I expected when we asked Kevin O'Connell

about Isaiah Rogers for him to say, Ben, like, oh, well, you know, I mean, he's a depth guy that we saw, oh no. He said that he is a Brian Flores special, someone that Brian Flores identified specifically. And when I hear that, my antennas go up, because we've seen that player before. Andrew VanGinkle is a good example of that.

And it sounded a lot like they believed that Isaiah Rogers will be a significant part of this football team, rather than just a kind of random depth piece. What did you make of his commentary on that? That was the most surprising thing I heard as well, probably because we just look at Isaiah Rogers and say, okay, he's been a depth piece for the Eagles. He's not the biggest corner.

Can he fit what Brian Flores wants to do? But what Kevin O'Connell talked about was he's going to play quite a bit. And like you say, when Brian Flores puts his hand in the air and says, I want this guy, that generally has been something they've deferred to, because it's generally worked pretty well. And if he has plans for Isaiah Rogers in this defense,

it's going to be interesting to see how that works out, because he's 5'9". He's not a big corner. But if you can play him in the slot, maybe you move Byron Murphy outside a little bit more often. And then they have Jeff Okuda, who they're going to try to probably get to grab a little bit less than he has,

and McKay Blackman coming back. But I mean, I've kind of gone into this draft thinking quarterback is a fairly high level need. And the way he talked about it, I mean, he made it seem like they could add in the draft. But he talked about the depth feeling like it was pretty good. So yeah, that was one of the things that made me kind of, made my ears perk up as well.

Well, and when you look at the small sample size data on Isaiah Rogers from him as a role player, he's played over 500 snaps before in a season, and what you'll see is that he's performed really well. And the one question is really just if he were asked to play more than that, would he still be able to produce the same level? Now we've seen that from Harrison Phillips, we've seen it from Andrew Van Ginkle,

where those guys did have more of roles where they didn't play every down and then they did. But I'm also thinking of this along the same lines as a Shaq Griffin, where last year Shaq Griffin was not exactly an every single down type of player for them, that we saw Byron Murphy and Stephon Gilmore were more of those guys. And I think that that will probably be the case

with McKay Blackman, who they should have high expectations on based on what he was able to do as a rookie in 2023. But bringing back Byron Murphy, to talk about that as well, because I asked O'Connell about bringing back Byron Murphy to talk about that as well, because I asked O'Connell about bringing back Byron Murphy and why that was so important. I really thought his answer was interesting where he talked a lot about how this is an above the neck type of defense. It's not necessarily I line up against you and shut down you that there are so many moving parts that they love the way that Byron Murphy fit into that and

understood that. And I think when you have a Byron Murphy and you know that he can play inside or outside, he could do a lot of different things, you sort of fill in the rest of the pieces around your guy that you know you can rely on to play a thousand snaps and to make plays on the football and to be locked in mentally and the other guys just have to do their job. So I think with someone like Blackman and Rogers, they're looking at like those guys can fill in around the corner that they spent so much money on to bring back in Byron Murphy. Yeah, they talked about I mean, Kevin O'Connell talked about hub of communication, which is one of those phrases that's a little bit like play style on offense. It is key to what they want to do defensively because there are so many checks.

They have so many things to relay throughout the defense and you have to have players like Harrison Phillips, like Harrison Smith, like Josh Metellus, Blake Cashman, Kam Bynum previously part of this, where they can make the decisions, make the reads, and then communicate that in short order to the rest of the defense. And Byron Murphy being a big part of that make the reads and then communicate that in short order to the rest of the defense and

Byron Murphy being a big part of that was something Kevin O'Connell talked about this morning I guess the Andrew van Kinkle would be the other name I would throw in that group of players that is is responsible for making a lot of those checks, but Byron Murphy Probably matters more to them Because of that and that's such a unique component of their defense that not a lot of other teams do. So they may have said, hey, we need to bring this guy back in part because of that and the contract worked out so that he's really not costing them all that much money this year.

A lot of that deal is really tied up in incentives that are hard to hit. He has to hit like, I think, an incentive for seven interceptions and an incentive for nine interceptions. So they did that because he had six last year. They don't want it to count against the cap. But they made it pretty tough to hit those.

And if they are paying him those incentives, it probably means that he had a pretty good year and the team won't mind paying because it probably means the team had a pretty good year. Well, and when we looked at the real contract versus what was initially reported, it was one of the biggest gaps that I think we've ever seen because his contract was actually just like DJ Reed

or Carlton Davis and what I wondered based on the way that they had talked about man coverage in the past was would they make a change there and go get someone who is more known for the man coverage. But at the same time, I don't think that's really the bread and butter of this defense. I just don't think that that is what they want to do behind a lot of those blitzes I mean how often are you sending blitzes and playing man coverage only when it's like a zero but something like that

It's risky right exactly so not that Byron Murphy can't or that his numbers are bad when he's playing man coverage It's just that I think that the zone element is a lot more valuable so you could see why they bring it back I also think too. There's a lot more valuable. So you could see why they bring him back. I also think, too, there's a lot of devil you know, devil you don't. You know exactly what his strengths and weaknesses are. And his age, I mean, he's younger than somebody like Sharvaris Ward, who got the same contract.

So you're getting the back end of Byron Murphy's prime in bringing him back. But I thought that that answer really well displayed exactly why they wanted to bring him back. Now let thought that that answer really well displayed exactly why they wanted to bring him back. Now let's move on to the back field, where there are free agent decisions that were made that we held the coach accountable

by asking easy questions about. So Aaron Jones comes back, and I thought that Kevin O'Connell's answer about Aaron Jones was very telling. Okay, he proved he could be in every down back over 17 games. However, you see him as more of an impact player when he could be part of a rotation. And I think that this is one of the moves that could pay the most dividends throughout next season is to bring in Jordan.

Yeah, Jordan Mason and pair him with Aaron Jones. Yeah, it was interesting that he made the point about the tandem for Aaron Jones because that was the case in Green Bay. He had AJ Dillon kind of as the the heavier setback the one that is goal to go situations third and one type situations maybe he gets the ball a little bit more and in that last five games with the Packers that year I think Jones had a hundred yards in every one of those games when he comes back he was healthy he was fresh coming off of an injury I think for the Packers that year, but they make that run

in 23 in large part because of what Aaron Jones did and the Vikings are probably looking at that and saying there's a path here where we get that same kind of production and that same kind of explosiveness, that same kind of vitality that we saw from Aaron Jones at the end of that 23 season in Green Bay. I think Jordan Mason probably ends up being a key to unlocking that. And you heard O'Connell talk a little bit today about this would have been a possible target in the draft.

And I suppose they still could. But when you have only four picks, they may not need to use a pick there. They have enough other places to spend them that if it saves you using a high pick on a running back, it may be a good investment from that perspective as well. I know you can't see yourself. Can you slide slightly closer?

I feel like as you get more hot takey, as you get more excited, you start going out of the picture. So the one thing he also mentioned about Jordan Mason was the short yardage element. And I think that it would not be an exaggeration to say this team was awful when it came to short yardage element. And I think that it would not be an exaggeration to say this team was awful when it came to short yardage. He admitted it this morning. As bad as you could possibly be. Possibly the worst team in the NFL in short yardage. And not only Jordan Mason, but also

Will Fries, Ryan Kelly, the concerted effort. I think what it shows is a level of awareness for this team where it's like we identify these weaknesses and sometimes during the Zimmer Spielman era I felt like we were every offseason identifying the same weaknesses that they would never address and it got frustrating. Yeah. And I think I'm frustrated for fans. It was just like oh Dakota Dozier is the guard again. And so this this time sorry Dakota you're a conscientious person but that's just it wasn't gonna work yeah so the point just being that they really understood you can't ask your quarterback all the time to throw

touchdowns in the red zone sometimes you have to have an easy button yeah and I think that his comment on that made it clear that he wants that easy button as much as we do. Well, and they have been one of the, like you said, one of the worst teams on success rate in goal to go situations on third and one. And you've just seen a lot of times in the red zone especially where they're like, we're not even going to try it. We're not going to waste a play on this. But that means you have to come up with a different solution, usually a creative play design, especially when you're throwing the ball and spaces are tighter and it just takes a little more work to put the ball in the end zone. If you have a running back that can just pound it in and get a yard

or get two yards, it makes things a lot easier like you say. And the point on Spielman is interesting because we saw a lot of times where I think the optics of admitting that we don't have a problem solved seemed to concern that regime. Like they didn't want to address certain things because it would be admitting that it was never as good as they said it was the year before. This group does not seem to have that problem. I mean, Kweysiadov-Felmenca, I think, has for all of what you might say about him, he seems to be able to admit when he's made a mistake and when he's wrong and needs to move on from it. We've seen them do that with a lot of the members of that 2022 graph class.

And I think we've seen it the last couple of years where when they see a problem, they're pretty quick to address it. Corner last year, the way they addressed it in training camp, they signed all those guys running back offensive line, I think, this year. They don't seem to shy away from obvious problems that they want to get fixed fairly quickly. It's much more of a let's go right into this

and put money into it, put resources, whatever that looks like, to fix it. So it is a very different approach to those things with this group. And I think this year it was the offensive line and short yardage production in the running game. That got a lot of attention in free agency and then that Jordan Mason trade. Now I know that you guys are sitting there saying, wow, I'm enjoying this Aaron Rodgers free conversation,

but why haven't they gotten to the left guard position? Well, have I got something for you? so we did ask about Blake Brandle and You know, I'm sure that that was the number one question on your mind coming in the owners meetings But I was very interested to hear what he said about Blake Brandle. I thought it was Him addressing that it was clearly different with Cam Robinson. There's no question about it. The numbers will show you that.

And Brando still ended up toward the top of the league and pressures allowed, sacks allowed, and that was not all coming when he was with Cam Robinson, but he was a much better run-graded blocker when he was with Darasaw. Because Darasaw is a top three run blocking tackle in the entire NFL, he's going to make a guard better and they work tackle in the entire NFL. He's going to make a guard better and they work together for the entire off season. I think we all get that about Blake Brandel. I also see it as a potential draft position

that they could go after and look to improve there. He also gave a shout out to Michael Juergens who I think Juergens impressed this team last year to the point where they're confident in him if Ryan Kelly goes down to be a backup or maybe compete for that spot. We didn't hear Walter Rouse's name as a guard so I kind of was thinking maybe we were off on that or maybe that's something that they'll try to cross train him a little bit this year.

Right but what did you make of just the way that he talked about Blake Brando potentially starting again this year? Yeah I mean that's kind of the one spot on the offensive line that they haven't addressed yet I mean you have Ryan Kelly you have Will Fries here and they add Justin Skull to Give them another option to tackle before Christian Darasaw comes back Whatever that's gonna look like probably training camp But maybe later so it is kind of the one outstanding spot in that group and I have wondered what they're gonna do there I think Brandell I can see why they are it sounds like gonna

give him another chance especially if they get Darasaw back and and they can kind of put the offensive line back together the way it was. I think they probably also feel like Ryan Kelly adds a little more physicality than we got from Garrett Bradbury so they're banking on that a little bit as well but I will be curious to see if they do bring in more competition because Juergens name I think came up today. And then it came up yesterday when O'Connell met with the Beat Riders as well. So Juergens at guard is,

I think an interesting possibility because I have sort of seen him as the center of the future. I don't think they wanted JJ McCarthy to be playing with a young center in year one because quarterbacks and centers setting protections if neither of them has done it before that could be a little bit of a dicey proposition But I think the Ryan Kelly deal really only ties them in for a year So if Ryan Kelly just looks like he's getting old and not worth the money They can move on to Juergens at center next year So how they're gonna play that with him is I think one of those things that's worth watching.

I mean, we are deep in the weeds here. We're talking future succession plans at center and how a possible stint at guard could affect that going forward. This is called giving the people what they have been asking for and I think we're doing it here. My opinion on Brandle is that I struggle to see more upside, but I get what their point

is. When we're talking about a sixth round draft pick whose athleticism was the biggest question mark coming out, it's hard to say, oh, well, he's going to turn 28 or something and take one big leap when he has really not shown a tackle or guard to be an above-average type of player. At the same time, using and also using five games as a sample size is pretty tough. Oh well in those first five well in the first five games they were never losing, they were never in what they would call true pass sets a lot where it's like third down and long and

you got to throw and stuff like that. Weighty downs. Right, playing from behind that sort of stuff. They were winning every one of those games and it was easier to play on the offensive line than it would have been when you're down or you're going in back and forth in a shootout and having to throw a lot where I think that's where he was his weakest. That he struggled sometimes in pass protection and I don't think he was as much of a powerhouse

as maybe his size would suggest in the run game. That said, if he's your weakest point, then you're in pretty good shape. What I would like to see there is competition. I think he can build on 17 games. We see offensive linemen develop, but if you have Graze Able on the board at 24 and you wanna take him

because you have him great to on the board at 24 and you want to take him because you have him grayed to hide, just do it. He doesn't prevent you from signing another left guard and free agency that's still out there. I mean, there are a handful of guards. Will Hernandez has been mentioned on the show 700 times. And someday, he's going to come here, and you all are going to apologize for giving me

a hard time about it. We've been talking about Will Hernandez. Wasn't he a draft target way back when? 2018. Yes, the Garrett Bradbury draft, right't he a draft target way back when? 2018. Yes, the Garrett Bradbury draft, right? It was a Brian O'Neill draft. Correct. It passed on a guard in the first round,

took O'Neill in the second round. Bradbury was the next year. Right, and we were like, what are you guys doing? You even know how to draft anyone? And then Brian O'Neill. It took my cues. Actually, it's funny about that, just as a real quick aside. If you draft a late second round tackle, the odds that they become as good as Brian O'Neill are like zero. Actually

all the Viking superstars are like that where the even the odds of a Darasaw being that good he was supposed to be drafted in the top 10. Justin Jefferson I mean what are the odds of that so kind of funny but they have done studies showing that if you draft Lyman higher, they do better. They have. Actually, that applies to every single position, probably. Except, except, do you know the one position it doesn't? There's one position on the field that that does not apply, that actually not drafting them

higher is better. They actually perform better if you don't draft them higher. It is kicker. OK. And the reason for that, this is, yeah, you talk about deep in the weeds, this is what you asked for. Pressure on kickers with the graphics? When you draft them, you have to play them.

If a guy is undrafted, he will earn his job in training camp. Now you understand. Anyway, let's go over to the defensive side of the ball. And one of the questions for Kevin O'Connell was about where Javon Hargrave and Jonathan Allen fit in with Harrison Phillips, and will they be on the field at the same time? And I got the impression that what they want

is a lot of different dudes playing all the time, rotating in, hockey line changes on that D line. And I think what we see with Philadelphia, and it's hard not to use the Super Bowl team, they done it multiple times I feel it's like one of their core beliefs they did it in 17 they did it in 22 they did it that having more people coming in fresh is better and I think that one of the biggest issues on this D line has been the beginning of the year wow they're really doing great and by the end of the year Harrison Phillips is on his 900 snap or something and

Jonathan Bullard's on snap 700 and they've just run out of gas so what they've done here is given themselves so much more depth with also the other players like Jalen Redmond and Levi Drake Rodriguez who they're developing. Yeah it's funny because when we start talking about Philly in this context my mind goes back to 17 where it's that NFC game, and the Eagles are bringing pass rushers and waves, and the Vikings guys are in like their 1200 snap of the year between regular season and playoffs, and they're just fried.

And it's like, that's a long time to be talking about the same problem, but what's probably worth pointing out there is that they haven't had the money to address it in this capacity in quite a long time. I think the last time they had two defensive tackles that had been to Pro Bowls on their roster at the beginning of the year was 2018 when they had Sheldon Richardson to that group but they have taken that long to get out of the cap straights that they were in.

Obviously the Chief quarterback helps them there to be able to address other places. And they've said finally that having a bunch of guys that play five, six, maybe 700 snaps with some of those top guys is better than asking injury prone, or at least guys who have had injuries in their past and are in their 30s, to play 900 to 1, 1000 snaps at a position where you're banging into somebody on every single play and those things are going to take a

toll. So I think if you're going to sign Jonathan Allen, if you're going to sign Javon Hargrave, you have to have some depth behind those players and they feel like they've got that and it's just it's one of those problems. It feels like it's something we've talked about for a long time and now it looks like they have a little more of a solution to it. So you asked O'Connell about bringing in injured players or guys who had had I shouldn't say currently injured but who had had injuries from last year. Now, this is a question

of do they believe in themselves too much with their training staff? Because I have been of the long belief that injuries are largely random. We saw that to some extent in 2023 where Kirk Cousins never had an injury before in his life and then whoops, there goes his Achilles. And they brought in Davenport with the same idea,

well, we can keep him healthy and they did not keep him healthy. You can't keep people from falling on to other people's ankles and stuff like that but I also think that this training staff has had ideas that have been pretty effective in terms of keeping players healthy so what do you think of that strategy? Yeah it's been interesting to watch how they've gone about it when they... Oh, okay. We gotta move? Oh, okay. Um, alright. Keep that.

Hey everybody, we're in a different place now. We got thrown out of where we were standing before, so we're kind of in the shadows near some bushes now, but we're still reporting on guards and injuries and everything else that we normally would.

Do you think the security guard got mad that we were casting aspersions on the way they have handled protection units in the past? Is there like a solidarity thing? Is that what got him on our case? It's possible that was Dakota Dozier who is the security person or someone related to him. He was a very large man. We didn't mean anything, Dakota. He was a good dude. Conscientious. Conscientious.

That was the word Mike Zimmer used for him. So anyway, yeah, it's a little bit of a different spot, but we could still have a fun conversation. The sun is in my eyes here and there's a lot of bugs. But we'll- Florida. Just a couple more minutes on this, Ben. I was asking you about the injury issue

of getting players who have had injuries in the past and just whether you think that's a really smart strategy or if you think that that is a little bit on the risky side. Yeah, I think there's probably a little bit of both there. I mean, they're certainly taking on risk with injuries, but I think their reason for doing that is the bet that some of those players are gonna come a little more cheaply because they've

had injuries in their past and I think the Vikings thinking is we can take these guys on because we believe that our medical staff is good enough to keep these guys healthy, keep these guys in the field. You see it with Aaron Jones last year, you see it with Andrew Van Ginkle coming off of that foot injury, Javon Hargrave, Jonathan Allen, that's the case this year. Even Byron Murphy, I think the year they signed him, he was coming off of a back injury and people thought, well not gonna get quite as good of a price in free agency as a result of it. So I think it's probably a little bit of a moneyball strategy. It's

in you look for market efficiencies in the NFL. It's different than baseball where it's, hey this guy walks a lot and people pay for home runs, but people don't see the value in this. This is an interesting way to do it because people pay for healthy players and they're trying to say, maybe we can hit on guys that have had injuries in the past. There is risk to it, see Davenport, Como, Marcus,

but overall, at least the last year, and they're trying it again this year, they have a lot of success getting those types of players. Alright, so what have we not touched on? Because you know, if you and I are doing a podcast together, we have to look into the crystal ball, and there's a lot of people around, so I don't know if I want to do the noise. I'll do it anyway. I didn't even do the noise.

The crystal ball. What should we be looking into the crystal ball for? How about this? How good are the Minnesota Vikings going to be? Right now, knowing what we know, and we can talk a little bit about the draft strategy in this, because I asked O'Connell, I keep trying to convince O'Connell to draft a receiver, he's not buying. No.

But I'm, but, hey. He brought it up today though. I'm working on it. It's on, though. I'm working on it. It's on his radar. I'm working the angle. And eventually, hey, they believed me with Jordan Addison in 2023. So maybe they'll do it again.

Probably not. But how about that? Let's start there instead. Let's start there with the draft then. And what O'Connell said about players that they draft, he said, yes, we can go best player available. But we also want to be able to play the guy. Yes. And I think that is important as well. So they've been an allusion to Justin

Jefferson. If you're sitting behind him, you're not going to play as much. That is true. Although I'm just saying, Kevin, if you're listening, wide receiver threes on the best passing teams end up with five to 600 yards. That's important anyway. So happened in 2022. Take a look into the crystal, yards. That's important anyway. So. And that happened in 2022. Take a look into the crystal. Whoa. The crystal ball and tell me. The condensation off of there. Yeah. It's kind of humid. Right. And tell me who you think they draft. I am seeing a large man. Looks like he's maybe there's highlights of him in green and gold. This could be either of two people with green and gold, but it appears to be a player wearing Nike. Looks like he's playing out west, playing in the big ten, oddly enough. It looks like Derek Harman from, hi Chad Graff, from Oregon. The defensive tackle that they had talked with

at the combine and I think defensive tackle is still an area where they are going to continue to add, could continue to add depth even though they addressed it in free agency but you need guys for the future there as well especially when you have a lot of players in their 30s and Harrison Phillips heading to that point. So yeah I see Derek Harmon in the crystal ball. I like Derek Harmon as a pick.

Walter Nolan is another guy who, if you watch a little bit of his highlight reel and stuff, you see getting up the field quickly and kind of reminds you of Jonathan Allen type of player. Harmon is that all around many areas. You heard this high football IQ and character and things like that. So I think the Vikings also really try to identify the right type of people.

Conscientious. Yeah, exactly. But I mean, I think when you have a unique culture that it does matter that you look for players who fit along the same lines as what would work in your locker room. And everything that we hear about Derek Harman is that he is that type of guy.

But let me go back to that comment from O'Connell, because I know he was addressing me and my obsession with drafting wide receivers. But I also think that that might apply to defensive tackle. I mean, there really isn't a ton of space for a defensive tackle. Yeah, that is true. Right?

I mean, if you're going to play Phillips and Allen and Hargrave, and then you still like some of the other guys, I mean, when are you going to play Derek Harman? Now I'm not against it, because I like to think of it as two, three year investments, not one year, but that doesn't really align with what he was talking about. Right, that is true, and we should also note

that Brian Flores doesn't like to play rookies very often, doesn't like to play young players, so they may have to look at some of those guys knowing that it is going to be older players. It's been older players and Brian Flores is defense. It's been guys that have enough experience in the league that he feels like he can trust them. So we saw with Dallas Turner last year, where there's a little bit of a projection, a little bit of a, let's get him in here now because a guy like Andrew Van Genkel will be a free agent after this year.

Hargrave is going to be a really interesting one because the cap number to keep him in 26 goes pretty high and I do wonder with him is this going to be a one year solution and they look at another cheaper, younger option there. So when I say Harman, I see it a little bit when I look at the crystal ball as that type of a player, where it's maybe he plays a little bit of a role in year one and then all of a sudden when you need a cheaper piece that can step in and play more often

in 2026, he steps into that role there. So let's say that your crystal ball is wrong. Let's say that it's got condensation on it. It's incredibly humid out here at the moment. I mean, I am just sweating. And I can't quite get behind a tree here to not have the sun very much in my eyes. But it's a battle.

I would say it's a struggle. Minnesotans can relate. Yeah, but if it's not defensive tackle, then where do you think they're going? And I thought it was interesting yesterday. I saw the green and gold wrong and it was Grace Abel. Yes. Yeah. Well, that's what I was thinking about when our Blake Brandle conversation is that left guard should still be very much up in the air. And if you have a Brandle, you don't have to play a development guy right away. If he does want to play the guy right away, then what position would it be, though?

I mean, are we still talking corner? We were just talking about how happy they are with Isaiah Rogers. I mean, it just seems like there's so much on the table safety. He told us also, we didn't really get into this, but he told us that Harrison Smith said, hey, I'm back for one more year, which we kind of already knew.

But at the same time, like, that could mean that next year, a Mellekai Starks, I just feel like there's so many options here. Yeah, there are a lot of ways they could go, because they have a lot of positions covered with starters. There's not the obvious glaring hole where they have to have the guy play right away.

So finding that spot where this guy is gonna contribute is an interesting projection. Because I could see a safety. I could see if you added another corner. I mean, it's never a bad idea to have more of those, as Mike Zimmer has taught us. And I think assuming that Jeff Okuda is going to be an answer there is a bit of a projection.

So safety, I think, would make some sense as well. Because the other question they have to decide beyond Harrison Smith is Josh Metellus. He is in a contract year again and looks like he's due for a raise. All of those incentives that he has checked every box to get. I don't think they expected

that he was going to be quite as big of a contributor as he was. They don't put incentives like that in that players hit to the tune of two, two and a half million dollars a year generally when they think a player is gonna have that type of a role. So the fact that he did what he did I think is something of a surprise to them so then they have to decide are they gonna pay him, they're gonna do an extension. We've seen Drew Rosenhouse walking around here a lot this week, talking to the Vikings a lot this week.

Josh Metellus is a Drew Rosenhouse client, so that may be on his mind as well. So you have to make decisions at safety for the long term beyond the fact that Cam Bynum is gone. And I think safety could be a spot where if they find the right value, they could look for somebody there as well. I am having the battle of my life here with the sun.

I think I'm going to have to stand behind you, maybe, like this. This is not fit for Minnesotan. So I agree that there's a lot of different spots that they could go with that. Safety is a position that I think you can find a way to contribute right away because you have Brian Flores

and you know that he's going to be able to work out if a guy can find a role. Like three safety packages. Exactly, and you know the one thing that was left a little bit on the table with us was, I did want to ask about Theo Jackson because I am curious about whether they see Theo as an actual starter or if he is just a valuable role player for them

and they wanted to lock him up as kind of a just in case. But because my face is about to just be completely toast and I'm not even sure if I can be, I'm looking at the computer over here, if I can actually be seen or I'm just like, I'm a ghost. I'm a ghost because of the sun on my face. Yeah, it doesn't, I don't do well with that. But, so just one more thing then.

They've wrapped up free agency. They've done so much here. We know, at least as of this moment, JJ McCarthy is indeed the quarterback, everyone. And Mark Wilf talked with a lot of confidence about what JJ McCarthy can be. So, look into the crystal ball and tell me how many wins you think this football team should be expected to have in 2024.

And I'm going to stand over here behind this tree. There's condensation again, so wipe off the crystal ball. I see double digits again, constant condensation. Do we have to get that out of the way? Yeah, I see double digits. I think I'm seeing a 10. It looks like a 10. JJ McCarthy seems like he's had a productive enough year to put them back in the playoffs.

They can do the game manager thing a little bit with all of the running game pieces they've added, with the weapons around him, with the defense doing what it does. Yeah, it looks like a 10. Looks like a 10 and seven was what that would work out to. I agree. I think that's exactly what I'm seeing as well.

And I think that that's a fair bar to set because the schedule is difficult, the division is difficult. And Mark Wilfie- No more ifs, he's out to kick around. Right, and Mark Wilfie even talked about that yesterday. Like he said, that like from year to year year things change and expectations and win-loss over unders don't really matter that much because you get different injuries

right yeah you get but you get different elements that play into what your ultimate record ends up becoming but I think that if you're going to move on from Sam Darnold you're not going to franchise tag him and you're going to let him go to the Seattle Seahawks and you're not going to franchise tag him, and you're going to let him go to the Seattle Seahawks, and you're not going to bring in Aaron Rodgers, then your expectation should be that you're back in the playoffs, and that you're a winner,

because you didn't do this, all this other stuff on the roster, to just be okay. Like you did it to beef up the roster as much as you possibly could around your quarterback, and give yourself a chance to compete for a Super Bowl, and I think anything less than going into the playoff saying, hey, this team could be dangerous, or JJ McCarthy's got him in a position

to really win something. Anything less than that is pretty disappointing. Yeah, if this was just about developing JJ McCarthy and having the young quarterback take a step forward this year and not about winning in 2025, they don't make a lot of the moves that they made. I think the way they addressed it in free agency,

especially with guys that are older players, that's about winning right now. I think that is still very much the projection. That's the expectation. That's what you see the Wilfs talk about quite a bit. And I think that's the case this year as well. They did not make the moves that they made with the idea of this being a build for 2026 or 2027. They are still very much trying to win right now,

building around JJ McCarthy, using that cap space to fill out the roster, but that's something you do a lot of times when you think a team is ready to make the move to go all in for a Super Bowl with a young quarterback, they are operating as if that can happen this year. And I think at a minimum expecting them to be in the playoffs is completely reasonable. All right, so we apologize for the adjustments and for me probably squinting a lot when doing this podcast,

but at the same time very fun to get together with you, Ben. And you know, it just us, we both struggle with authority. So getting thrown out of an area that was absolutely perfect for podcasting is actually absolutely perfect for us in our podcasting history. We used to have troubles at Winter Park finding places to go. Sometimes we couldn't get them to turn the TV off when we were doing it in there, the echoey hallways. I mean, it's actually kind of perfect that it went this way. So from the bushes outside of the media area,

the sequestered media area that you cannot walk into a very specific spot, even though there was no one around and no one said we couldn't go there. The funny thing is, very quickly, when we were walking to that secluded spot that was flying until the security guards had an issue, we walked right past Robert Kraft and Mike Vrabel

just sitting on a couch chatting. I mean, this is the weird thing about the owners' meetings, is you get all of these, hey, it's Chris Thomason. There he is. Chris Thomason over here, he's waving. He's not in the shot, I don't think, but hi, Chris. Is it live or taped? Yeah, it's taped. It's Chris Thomason. There he is. Chris Thomason over here. He's waving. He's not in the shot, I don't think. But hi, Chris. Is it live or taped?

Yeah, it's taped. It's taped. But the people probably want to see you, I would think. Let's just come over here. Camera's right there. You're not in the shot yet. The annual hug with Kevin O'Connell? You're not in the shot.

Come a little this way. Yeah, there you are. Chris Thomason. Well, it's three years strong. Still not photographed. I screwed up again. Well, I covered Kevin O'Connell one year, 2022, but the owners' meetings in Arizona two years ago, he gave me a big hug.

See for walking by smirking at us. It was resumed in Orlando last year at the owners' meetings and today. So three years strong, and I've made plans to meet with Kevin in Arizona last year at the owners meetings and today so three years strong and I've made plans to meet with Kevin in Arizona next year for a fourth consecutive hug and I Got the new iPhone that has the quick camera button. I still missed it one of these years I will get photo evidence that this hug happens every year Fantastic great to see on with you guys and Fantastic. Great to be on with you guys.

And continue good luck. Great to see you, Chris. I wouldn't hug me. I've been sweating standing out here. So it's been a battle. There you go, ladies and gentlemen. I don't know what to say. You got Chris Thomas in.

What more can you ask for? That's the end of the show. There's nothing more to be said or done here. From the owners meetings, I thought we learned a lot. Yeah, I think so. We talked about a lot of free agents that signed with this team. Some that didn't not.

Didn't talk about any quarterback stuff. Nope, we did not. All right. Football.