Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Bonus episode: Giants host Lance Medow talks Dalvin Tomlinson (and Eli Manning debates)

Episode Date: March 19, 2021

XM Sports host and pre/halftime/postgame New York Giants host Lance Medow joins Matthew Coller for a fun episode talking about what Dalvin Tomlinson meant to the Giants last year, how he took steps forward and how he might help out Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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with Drizzly or Instacart, Coors Brewing Company, Golden, Colorado, and as always, celebrate. Welcome to another episode of Purple Insider, presented by Scout Logistics and by Symbol, your stock market for sports. We welcome into the show Lance Meadow. He is a SiriusXM sports host and the Giants Radio Network pre-game, halftime, and post-game host. And he is here to discuss Delvin Tomlinson. Lance, what's going on, man? I'm doing very well, Matthew.

Thanks for having me on the program. Appreciate it. Now, if we divert into, like, the 1990s New York Knicks and start talking about, like, how great maybe, like, Charles Smith was, is that okay? Can we start there maybe? Well, that's fine, but I'm just warning you, I grew up a Bulls fan in New York City. Oh, man.

What? Why? How? Michael Jordan. What can I do? You know, I pick the winners. That's the bottom line. Great talking to you, Lance, and we'll catch you next time.

I'll be more than happy to talk about Charles Smith. It just won't be the narrative that you're hoping for, Matthew. I'm just warning you. Man, man. So I grew up in Buffalo, New York. And so it's like, was I going to be a Raptors fan? And when I was growing up, they were just becoming the Raptors. And maybe Hakeem was there at the end of his career uh but for me it was like my first introduction to sports was like the 94-95 Knicks uh and thank you to your Michael Jordan for taking a little time off because that got the Knicks to an NBA finals but um but you couldn't even take advantage of it though yeah okay it's John Starks' fault I didn't do that Lance that was he shot what three for 23 or something in that game three through 17 or something like that who's counting

yeah thanks thanks for bringing that up sure well uh anyway so at least it's gone great for the two franchises since the heydays yeah unfortunately uh anyway so there's all sorts of fun uh things that we could talk about with New York sports. But let's focus first on Delvin Tomlinson, and then we'll see where this goes. So what do you think? I mean, they obviously had to pay Leonard Williams. It seemed like they wanted to keep Delvin Tomlinson around because that was a really good duo for the Giants last year. He ends up signing a pretty sizable contract with the Vikings.

Just give me sort of your take with him exiting New York, signing with Minnesota. Well, first of all, I would agree with you. I don't think the Giants wanted to lose him. I think that they respected what he brought to the franchise. He was a second round pick in 2017, but it was really a money game. The fact that they gave the franchise tag to Leonard Williams, they know they need to improve the offense, given the fact that that unit scored under 20 points per game last season. So it was a numbers crunch. And unfortunately, it's hard to justify, I think, from their perspective, investing that type of money in a player who is young, still has plenty of upside, but is not necessarily going to put up monster statistics on the defensive side.

They also drafted Dexter Lawrence recently. He was one of their first-round picks, and B.J. Hill was a third-rounder in 2018. So they've brought in a lot of defensive linemen in the draft over the last few years, which I think prepares themselves to at least turn to some other options in the event Dalvin Tomlinson left. But I don't think it's a reflection, at least from the Vikings fan standpoint well why did the Giants let go of a guy like this who's entering the prime of his career it's not they don't respect the player it's more of just the financials well maybe there's a New York Knicks 94 comparison here with how the Giants were building their defensive line with all tough guys your Anthony Masons and Charles Oakley and so forth.

That's interesting to me, though, because it seemed like they really wanted to build this solid interior defensive line and had a great unit there last year. How much did that play into Delvin Tomlinson having a career year in terms of pressuring the passer? I think he doubled his career high of quarterback pressures by pro football focus, and it seemed like he maybe took a next step. But with the Vikings, I think they're going to be asking a lot from him. Well, I think that's a great question. The good news is he's playing next to Michael Pierce, who opted out last season, and they brought in from the Baltimore Ravens. So while I think you need a group of guys up front, it's not just one guy in particular.

The good news for Dalvin Tomlinson is that at least he's walking into a defensive line where there's going to be another big boy next to him. And perhaps he won't draw all the double teams and he'll be able to open things up for other personnel and vice versa. Because I think what you alluded to and you hit right on the nose is yeah Tomlinson was a byproduct of being surrounded by a cluster of defensive linemen that Patrick Graham rotated it's interesting because you were talking about his individual numbers Tomlinson this was the third different defense Matthew that he played it he was with Steve Spagnuolo when he was a rookie then James Petra took over when Patrick um Schermer when Pat Schirmer, excuse me, became the head coach. And then you had Patrick Graham under Joe Judge.

So he's been moved around. He's played defensive end. He's played on the interior. And I do think that Leonard Williams being next to him, having Dexter Lawrence, they had a lot of big guys up front. And when you could collapse the pocket, the other guys are going to feast as a result. So Tomlinson's the type of guy that, you know, you noted his pressures. You look at the box score. front and when you could collapse the pocket the other guys are going to feast as a result so Tomlinson's the type of guy that you know you noted his pressures you look at the box score

you say to yourself he's not a wow me guy he's not a big sack guy he had eight sacks over the course of his four seasons with the Giants but he does a lot of the dirty work that I think the other players around him will benefit from well that's what I was going to ask you is because the biggest question I think Vikings fans have and and I would say the same for myself, is just how does he fit in with not being a huge pressure guy, not being the guy, Leonard Williams was the guy who's getting all the sacks. And for the Vikings, when you look at their pressure numbers or the sack numbers, not good, Lance.

That's so clearly, those were, I mean, those are the areas where they needed to improve the most. And then their first signing is someone who doesn't necessarily have that profile. So from you with the firsthand experience of obviously watching every game of his, I mean, what do you see as far as his impact in the passing game and how it goes maybe beyond some of the numbers? Well, I think it goes back to what you and I were just talking about. You're expecting him with Michael Pierce to help collapse the pocket and that there's so much pressure coming on the interior that guys on the edge are going to be able to capitalize.

I mean, that's what always jumped out to me about his play with the Giants. You knew he was going to be in the right position, fundamentally sound player, also extremely valuable in stopping the run. And the one thing that I would say, Matthew, is Vikings fans, that's what you should be excited about. You know, I don't need to tell you the numbers. They weren't pretty last season. The Vikings gave up over 130 rushing yards per game, okay?

Do you want to revisit the Bears game or what Alvin Kamara did? They know that firsthand. So between him and Michael Pierce, the first thing that I'm looking at with Minnesota's defense is you're shoring up being able to at least first stop the run. And Tomlinson is going to be a help in that department. But do not expect him to come in and give you six to seven sacks. If he does that, you'll take it. He's had a career high of three and a half sacks. He's had that each of his last two seasons. He had one season where he had no sacks, and then he had one sack.

So he's not going to be the wow me type of guy, but he's going to be a durable guy. He played all 16 games in all four of his seasons, hasn't missed one game. And you know availability is a big part of value in the National Football League. So once again, those are the types of things that I think the Vikings value based on the money they invest in him and what they're going to get I don't think it's a guessing game Tomlinson's going to bring that to the table the icing on the cake is going to be if he could give you three to four sacks I think that would be a very solid productive season for him yeah and I think that Mike Zimmer has a very specific plan for how he

wants his guys to rush. It's not just, hey, everyone go attack the quarterback if it looks like they're passing, like he's got, you know, rush lanes and how he wants his linebackers to blitz, and all these things are a part of it that go beyond just, hey, does the guy get in the backfield? But you mentioned a guy who is right place, right time, a lot. And from just reading about him a little bit in the hours since they signed him, seems to me like high character guy. It seems like a high intelligence player, which I know that Mike Zimmer, everyone values that.

But I think that Mike Zimmer values that about as much as anything else, as much as any tool that someone can bring to the table. So what do we know about Delvin Tomlinson's personality? Sure. Well, he's not an ego guy. I will tell you that. He should be able to fit perfectly into that Vikings locker room. An interesting little note connected to what you're talking about, Matthew. He had a chance to go to Harvard out of high school. I mean, this is a smart, savvy type of individual. Not many guys get recruited by Harvard and then Alabama. Okay. So it's a pretty wide spectrum in terms of what Dalvin Tomlinson attracted coming out of high school. But yeah, this is a guy that I think

is going to help the rest of the defensive line in the film room. You're not going to have to worry about him drawing attention to himself. even with interviews in the locker room. He's a short, sweet, to the point type of guy. He's not very talkative. He's going to put his lunch pail down, and he's going to go to work. That's what he's going to do. And that's what you want from an interior guy. You want him to know that he's not in this for the glory.

He's not in this for the headlines. He's in this to just go to work. And what's also interesting is the fact that, you know, you brought up Mike Zimmer and what he looks for in a player. If you want to look at Giants history, Vikings history, interestingly, Matthew, 2014, Linville Joseph, who was also a former Giants second round pick, winds up signing with the Vikings. And now here we go a few years later, Dalvin Tomlinson, another former second round pick of the Giants, winds up signing with the Vikings. So I don't know if Rick Spielman or Mike Zimmer have love

affairs with whoever the Giants take in the second round every few years, but I see a trend playing out. Yeah, that could be it. Well, I think that giant dudes who stop the run and are soft-spoken and smart, if you can find two of those guys, you're lucky. And Linvald Joseph was absolutely that. When you were describing Dalvin Tomlinson in the locker rooms, like I was thinking of Linval Joseph because Linval is a very bright guy and great with the details of his job, but he wasn't going to pour his heart out to the media after every game. And, I mean, that's sort of like what you get when you're talking about,

you know, a nose tackle. That's what they should be doing right like are there any diva nose tackles i don't think you could be a diva nose yeah aaron donald i don't look at is per se a diva funny you brought that up they had a guy damon snacks harrison who played with dalvin tomlinson for a few seasons before he was traded in the division in the nfc north to the lions you know, he was a little bit more of a bubbly personality. He'd give the media some good one-liners and so forth. But I don't know, Diva, if I'd go so far.

It was just he had more of a personality of like a defensive end who would pile up the sacks as opposed to some of those quieter guys who just do the interior work and then go on with their lives. Right, right, right. I follow Snacks on Twitter, and he's a good follow. And his name is Snacks. So I think that gives you a good starting point for that. Lance, I want to ask you also, because that's great information about Delvin Tomlinson, but just about the Giants and where they stand. Daniel Jones at times, including running 22 miles an hour or whatever it was, he actually, he impressed me at times last year. There was still the, why does he throw it to the other team and fumble too much?

But I thought that he was looking like he was taking another step and the defense was emerging as being one of the better units, maybe in the entire league last year. Is there a feeling that this team is on the right trajectory after some years of very rocky times? Well, that's the million-dollar question that I think Giants fans are all asking themselves. It's a very critical year, Matthew, for Daniel Jones this season. There's no doubt about it.

We're talking about an individual that is probably going to have the same offense and the same offensive coordinator for consecutive years for the first time in quite some time. And this is what I bring up more often than not. and the same offensive coordinator for consecutive years for the first time in quite some time. And this is what I bring up more often than not. And this is not an excuse, per se, about Daniel Jones, but stability around the quarterback is so important. And they brought in Jason Garrett last year, so this is going to be now year two with Jason Garrett. Prior to that, he had a system in Duke.

Then he had Pat Shermer and Mike Shula, and now Jason Garrett. So it'll be very interesting to see him working in the same scheme, how he can continue to develop with that aspect. The other aspect is the offensive line play. And we can sit here and talk about every quarterback in the NFL. You're only as good as the guys up front, just like Patrick Mahomes learned in Super Bowl 55 when he got beat up by the Bucs. So they need to continue to work out the offensive line.

They drafted Andrew Thomas and Matt Parrott last season. Those two guys are in line to be the starters. It looks like they just reworked the deal with Nate Solder. So they'll have a veteran presence there, but there's young guys on the interior. How that group performs and whether or not they could protect Daniel Jones is going to be another layer. And then the third layer is the skill set positions. Saquon was out for the bulk of last season with the torn ACL. They hope to get another layer. And then the third layer is the skill set positions. Saquon was out for the bulk of last season with the torn ACL. They hope to get him back and whether or not they can add a wide receiver in the draft or in free agency. He wasn't working with, let's face it, Matthew,

an overwhelming amount of talent at the wide receiver position and even the tight end position. So, you know, you want to see him operating with guys that can raise the level of performance overall of the offense as opposed to Daniel Jones having to do everything. So if they can get some more stability around him, better protection, then this becomes a huge year to determine, OK, what do we have in Daniel Jones when the conditions around him are not ideal, but at least more stable to truly evaluate what they have in him. Because I would say right now, after the first two seasons, Matthew, the jury's still out. You see some positives, there's flashes, but you sort of don't really know what you have at this point. Hey, everyone, I want to tell you about our friends at Scout Logistics. And I really do mean it when I say friends. They are fans of Purple Insider over at Scout Logistics. And since they reached out wanting to support this show, I want

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I mean, what you were just saying there sort of sounds like the Sam Darnold questions going into last year. Like, well, is it the supporting cast? Is it him? I feel like Daniel Jones has played better and shown more flashes than Darnold ever did. But it's so interesting to me because New York has always just had like Keyshawn Johnson and Odell Beckham, and there's always like great playmakers. And right now you kind of don't have them. And Golden Tate leaving and really didn't do what you wanted him to do there. So are you putting for the draft for the Giants wide receiver? I mean, is this a Jalen Waddell, a Jamar Chase? I mean, is that like the top of the board for Giants fans, you think? Yeah, that would be the direction that I would go in if you were to ask me. A lot depends, of course, what they do in free agency, but let's face it, even if they add a veteran wide receiver, there's room to add a dynamic playmaker with the 11th overall pick.

And a few of the names you threw out, I think are in the mix. Devante Smith, Kyle Pitts, the tight end out of Florida, I think also could be somebody at 11, but he could very well be off the board. If they don't go for one of those dynamic playmakers, would I be stunned? If they took another offensive lineman to help beef up the trenches? No, I don't think that's crazy. Could Sewell drop to them? Could Rashawn Slater out of Northwestern be there? It's possible. So, you know, those would be the two directions, but I don't know if there's a

defensive player that is going to be a huge game changer, playmaker when they pick at 11. I think if there's an offensive guy on the board, it just, it makes too much sense. It seems like such a good fit to bring in somebody that Daniel Jones could feed the ball to and could help this offense manufacture more points. Because Matthew, I'll go back to what you brought up. The defense did tremendously improve. There's no doubt about it. And I think Patrick Graham, the defensive coordinator deserves some credit as well as some of the signings they made, James Bradbury, Logan Ryan, Blake Martinez. But regardless if the defense comes back and picks up where it left off last season, the offense is going to determine the ceiling of this Giants team. You can't go out and score 17, 18 points a game, no matter how good

your defense is, and expect to win more often than not. So that still is going to determine where the Giants could go in 2021, So that still is going to determine where the Giants could go in 2021. And that means you need to surround your quarterback with more playmakers. So no chance they take a quarterback though, if Justin Fields drops? I would be very surprised. Listen, what I say never, nothing surprises me in the NFL from that standpoint, if the value's too good. But based on how the Giants feel with respect to Daniel Jones and what they did to take him and the research they put behind him, I truly believe they feel they have a franchise guy who just needs more polishing and needs more talent.

And I think the goal and the focus this offseason is going to be not focus on is Daniel Jones going to take three steps forward or five steps forward. It's more of how can we help our quarterback? And the way you help your quarterback is you continue to surround him with talent. So yeah, I would be very surprised if they go into the well of trying to bring in a young quarterback. Now, could they bring in a veteran to back him up, Matthew, as an insurance policy, even though they had Colt McCoy last year? That wouldn't stun me. But bringing in another young guy to compete with Daniel Jones, I think they need to utilize their resources on guys

that can immediately come in and play. Yeah, there's two minds of that. I guess there's the one that says, well, what if he doesn't take another step and he's Sam Darnold? But that might work out okay for them because, you know, then you're probably bad, and that means that you're drafting high and you could do it next year. The other way to think about it is we never give these guys time.

And every once in a while they do Ryan Tannehill, where they were actually pretty decent, and then they go to somewhere else and end up performing pretty well. So there's, you know, a couple different ways to look at it. Before we wrap up, Lance, I wanted to ask you this. Let's say you had one game with a million dollars on the line. Okay. And you had to decide whether to start Kent Graham, Danny Connell,

or Dave Brown. Who would you start? Wow. Boy, you're talking about putting me on the spot here. Please, Louise. Not necessarily the trio of attractive opportunities. Well, I probably would go with Ken Graham, I think, under those circumstances. Dave Brown, unfortunately, was put in a very tough spot.

He was a supplemental pick, and it just didn't necessarily work out. Danny Cannell was more of a guy that became a journeyman. He actually is on serious, so maybe I shouldn't say anything bad about him if it eventually gets back to him. But Kent Graham, I think for what he did under the circumstances, and I think if you surround him with talent and the environment's ideal for a million dollars, I'll roll him out, and I'll see what I can get out of him and hope that my defense gives him some additional support.

Well, Kent Graham's not going to beat you, but he's also not going to win the game. Like, that's Kent Graham for you, right? That's fair. He's never going to be exciting. The Vikings actually beat Danny Connell once in a game in 1997 where they had to get an onside kick back when you could get onside kicks and then Randall Cunningham wins the game for the Vikings so you don't want to put the answer down I mean I

can't say that game jumps out to me in the archives but I may have to now delve a little bit more into it based on you reminiscing a little bit oh go watch it it's a terrible game it's awful I mean the whole game is is miserable and then at the very end, the Vikings are down, I don't know, 10 or something, and they get an onside kick and throw a touchdown, and then it becomes exciting. It was a miserable game. So, yeah, definitely go watch it. Lance, this has been fun. It's always one of my favorite things to kind of dive back into other teams that don't –

well, you have such a long time of Eli Manning, and you get a couple of championships in there. But before that, between Phil Simms and Eli Manning, you get a couple of championships in there but before that between Phil Simms and Eli Manning you know it's a lot of fun there's a lot going on there a lot of fun in terms of trying to make sense of it if you ask most Giants fans though Matthew I don't know if they necessarily had some fun but I will say this it's funny you brought up that time period because I've had a lot of conversations with Giants fans and fellow colleagues. And this question came up actually recently, and it was about one of the most underrated free agent signings in Giants history. And considering you brought up the timeframe, Kerry Collins,

I think is one of the most underrated Giants free agent signings because think about the guy that helped sort of build the bridge towards Eli Manning and they got to a Super Bowl unfortunately they got knocked out pretty bad by the Baltimore Ravens but Kerry Collins had some really good seasons he set a few Giants records before Eli topped it and remember this was a guy that had some off the field issues after being a high pick with Carolina Ernie of course he taking a flyer on him and he flourished. So, you know, there were some bright spots even during that period. That is true. That is true.

And how could I forget 41 to nothing, which is referred to in Minnesota as 41 donuts. I forgot about who they beat before they played Baltimore. All right. So maybe Vikings fans won't appreciate that. No, I don't think that anybody is excited to hear more about Kerry Collins. But, you know, I'll say this before we wrap up, though. When I see people debate Eli Manning, is he a Hall of Famer, is he not a Hall of Famer? First, it's kind of a boring argument.

But if he goes in the Hall of Fame as someone who covers the Vikings who have never won a Super Bowl and who have so often had quarterbacks who can only get you so far, to win two Super Bowls and to beat Tom Brady, it's like, if they put that guy in, I have no complaints. I don't care what his career quarterback rating is. If you are the franchise quarterback for the Giants who beat Tom Brady twice and won Super Bowl MVPs, have it. Go to camp. Yeah, it's hard to disagree with that in terms of the resume that he brings to the table. Now, there have been some other individuals that have had a tougher time getting in, regardless of their resume, whether they have Super Bowl hardware or they don't. Does Eli Manning's individual record wow everybody? No. We're talking about somebody, Matthew, that's just around 500. But he did rise to the occasion on the biggest stage. And here's another thing that I think gets overlooked with Eli Manning. And this is something that I even brought up with Dalvin Tomlinson to

bring this conversation full circle. Durability. Durability means something, especially when you play as long as Eli did. Phillip Rivers, who's in the same draft class, another guy, never missed a start due to injury. And that says something. If you can pencil in a guy and you say, hey, I know he's available for me, the Giants compared to the rest of the division, Matthew, whether it be Washington, Philadelphia, Dallas, I need 25 hands to tell you how many starting quarterbacks those franchises had to turn to. And then I need one finger to tell you how many the Giants turned to. That says a lot, and that's meaningful. And I know when we talk about the Hall of Fame,

maybe people don't care to hear that. But if you can't get on the field and you can't be reliable from that standpoint, then your value to me diminishes. So I don't know if the Hall of Fame committee is going to weigh that, but I would heavily take that into consideration when looking at at least Eli Manning's career. I also look at his prime is maybe like this six to eight years and he's fantastic he's in the top 10 of categories year after year he's something like 70 and 50 through that time

he beats what Brett Favre at Lambeau and Aaron Rodgers at Lambeau and Tom Brady twice which I always get frustrated when people talk about, like, oh, wow, you can't factor in wins or whatever. Like, I don't know. The best quarterbacks of all time win. Are you going to not factor a couple of Super Bowls? Isn't that why we, you know, put everybody out on the field and open the stadiums?

So I don't know. I just have a lot of respect for him. I think that because he played so long, it drags down those overall numbers. So when you open up pro football reference, you go, oh, he's only 500. Like, but yeah, but not in his prime. He wasn't. Well, it's the accumulation of stats, which is what you're referring to. You know, you benefit when you play as long as Eli Manning did. It's funny you brought up the quarterback record because I'm sort of in this gray area, Matthew, where I get what you're saying. You want to see guys thrive on the biggest stage. Don't get me wrong. But I don't like pinning a record

on one individual, especially in a sport. See, if you and I were having this conversation about the Bulls and the Knicks, okay, hey, individual NBA players have far more of an impact on the result of a game because they play both sides versus a quarterback. Now, this is not me taking anything away from Eli Manning, but I do, from a non-biased situation, can at least see things from both sides. He benefited from having a really good defense during that first Super Bowl run. Okay, let's not be naive. The Giants' defense was a big reason why they got that far. Now, in 2011, Matthew, what I would argue with you is,

if Eli doesn't have the individual season he did, who knows if they even win the division and make it to the playoffs in 9-7 because there was no dominance until the playoffs with the defense, and he needed to throw the ball like crazy. And they had Victor Cruz and Akeem Nix, but Eli did a lot of the heavy lifting in 11, more so than he did in 07. So I do take that into consideration as opposed to just saying oh well Eli beat Tom Brady when Eli starts rushing the quarterback

then we can have the conversation about he does it all by himself that's a good point he also did make the the big plays when they were necessary and 100 the best quarterbacks I mean you look at over a large sample size they're going to win more often than the bad quarterbacks and so like the QB wins thing is complicated because it's like what this guy has more control over whether you win than anybody else on the field it's really not even close but of course they played unbelievable defense in those games and if they don't shut down Tom Brady the way that they did he doesn't get those Super Bowl champions I would think of it like this that I can give Eli credit for the Super Bowls as I consider like what his legacy is and I can also like not hammer

Philip Rivers for not winning one like Philip Rivers you're an all-time great quarterback and Dan Marino like is anyone saying Dan Marino was trashed of course not but um you know when you actually did win those Super Bowls over the greatest quarterback ever, I'm going to say, yeah, let me add that on. Let me tack that on to the bonus points that for me would get him over the top because otherwise probably not based on his numbers. Yeah, I think that's a very valid point. And I'm one that defends the guys that you brought up that don't necessarily have the Super Bowl rings,

but the durability, the consistency. And Rivers has a better record than Eli Manning, but the biggest difference between the two is Eli's got the hardware, Phillip doesn't. Now, did Phillip play bad in the postseason? No. Did you want to see him maybe make the big play? Yes, but he's got a defense he has to rely on. The guy played on a partially torn ACL in an AFC championship game. I mean, those facts I'm not losing sight of. And here's another thing that I wanted to bring up real quickly, Matthew, not to get completely off topic, but maybe this will come and hit home with Vikings fans.

Kirk Cousins, who I know is put under the microscope an awful lot, and people look at the Monday night football record, right? I don't need to remind you. I bring up this game, and I don't know if you remember this. When he was with Washington, they're playing Kansas City, Monday night game. He throws the ball in the end zone to Josh Doxon, beautifully thrown pass, Doxon right through his hands, and Washington loses that game. So Kirk gets the loss in that game. But is anyone going to remember, Kirk, when the game on the line, he made a great throw. His player on the opposite end didn't come through

for him. I'm not trying to put didn't come through for him i'm not trying to put kirk on a pedestal i'm not saying he's the greatest thing since swiss cheese all i'm saying is kirk cousins can do things other facets of his team may not deliver and i can say this about any other quarterback and all we do is we look at the end result of the game without remembering the detail right there's probably five guys at any given time in the NFL who can make up for that one throw that gets dropped on the next play. Cause they'll just make another one. And that's generally Patrick Mahomes though.

When we saw the limit of that, the Superbowl Tom Brady can overcome these things. And Kirk cousins is not in that list. I remember that because he ran a couple of times in a fourth quarter drive for big first downs. It was like, I was watching that game back. I don't know when they signed him maybe and going like this guy runs like, and no, he doesn't. It was just that happened. And they kicked a field goal. And then I think Alex Smith,

another guy who gets the same rap ends up, you know, driving for the game winning drive. So yeah, no, you're, you're absolutely right that all those things have to be factored in. I just want to have like a certain level of respect for Eli for getting that done because the quarterbacks here never get it done, Lance. Anyway, so I love all the places that we went with this. We started with the Bulls and the Knicks, which you're absolutely wrong for have cheered for the Bulls. And then Danny Cannell came up, and then we end with an Eli Manning debate.

I love it. Lance, this was great. I'm really happy that we could get together, man. Absolutely. Well, listen, thank you so much for having me on the podcast. Look forward to doing it again. And I agree with you, the versatility and vast array of topics that we covered on this, hopefully Vikings fans realize, you know, there is a little bit of everything that you

get on this program, as opposed to just deep analysis of the nose tackle and what he's going to bring to the forefront of that defensive line it usually is mostly that but this time you know since since you're you know from new york and i figured that we were going to connect on like a deeper level to talk about hubert davis's unappreciated role on the knicks but i was was shot down. Well, see, I thought you were going to bring up the phantom foul. See, that's how you should associate Hubert Davis. You know, when he didn't get fouled by Scottie Pippen? Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. They got a break for once there.

But, you know, I could also bring up, like, Randy Brown's shutdown defense, and I could give the Bulls credit. I have talked about this before. And how about this for um that and how about this for a fun like 90s basketball moment you'll appreciate this and hopefully you've got nothing to do in your life so you can listen to the story uh I just loved everything NBA so like the Knicks were my favorite but I loved all the teams like I loved the Bulls I loved the Pacers and so for my 10th birthday my mom made a cake herself she's an artist of Reggie Miller dunking a basketball, which she didn't really do very often, but it doesn't matter.

I was 10. And so she found it and sent it to me, and I tweeted it, and Reggie Miller quote tweeted it. Wow. How about that for some 90s basketball? Absolutely. I like those Pacers teams with Rick Smith and Dale Davis and Antonio Davis. Yeah. How about Vern Fleming for you?

If you want to go back to the archives. Yeah. And you had Mark Jackson, of course, was there. Mark Jackson for multiple teams in the post. Mark Jackson when point guards used to post people up. So good times. Yeah, and the little floater that he put up. That's right.

Yep. Those were good times. They were a team. Lance, this was really fun. It really was. And so I hope we can do it again. One of the things I like to do through the offseason is check in with random teams. And the Bits name is what's going on with that team is the name of the Bit.

So I hope we can check in again after you've drafted people and everything has happened because this was a lot of fun. Sure. And listen, with my work on SiriusXM NFL radio, given I cover the entire league, be more than happy to come on and discuss just about anything, including the Vikings. That is fantastic. Perfect. And I'm around if you ever need me.

So thanks, Lance. You got it. Thanks so much. Folks, March is quite the month for Minnesota sports, and SodaStick has you covered with Minnesota sports-themed gear. The hockey team is headed down the stretch, so you've got to check out the Dollar Bill Krill shirts, and baseball is ready to get started.

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