Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Brandon Thorn analyzes Christian Darrisaw's potential and the bones of a good offensive line

Episode Date: August 11, 2022

Brandon Thorn of Trench Warfare dives deep into what Christian Darrisaw can be if he reaches his ceiling, what we should make of Ed Ingram and the battle for the right guard position and whether there is any solution to the issues at center. He also talks about where the Vikings can potentially rank this season if everything goes right and how they are set up for the future in the trenches. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello and welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here, and you have begged for him to come back on the show. You have waited for the longest time, and maybe a failing on my part for not connecting sooner with Brandon Thorne. Brandon, Trench Warfare also contributes to Establish the Run. The offensive line guy, as you've been known on the show for a very long time. Brandon, what's up man it's a triumphant return how are you doing good man it feels like it's been a while you know it's it's good to to get back and do this again because we've obviously had some some good times and good conversations so this is cool well let's see they did not draft an offensive lineman so we didn't have that oh they did actually add Ingram in the second round,

but we didn't do a big breakdown of that one. And then the last time they played football was a very long time ago. So we haven't gotten together in a while. And what we used to do when they made the playoffs was we would do matchups of offenses versus defensive line, but they haven't made playoffs in a while. So here we are though. Here we are.

We're going to talk about Christian Derrissaw year two and the interior issues that have continued for your entire existence as a guest on this show. So I'm going to go dealer's choice. You get to pick. Would you rather talk about the interior issues first or Christian Derrissaw first? We could talk about Derrissaw first.

I think that would be kind of started off on a good note um yeah man i mean you know derisaw was obviously coming out of the draft you know really talented player um just with his size and some of the power that he had at virginia tech um was was very impressive um and then as a rookie i I thought he played pretty well. Some of the pass protection issues that were a little bit there on tape in college showed up. He tends to be a little slow out of his stance at times, maybe kind of give up a short corner sometimes and let guys kind of get to his edge a little sooner than you would like um that was something that i think was you know on tape uh throughout the year as a rookie but he has enough athletic ability and stuff to

correct that i think it's more of a technique thing um but uh but yeah you know as a run blocker to me when i did my a couple film rooms um you know on vikings guys and watched him throughout the year that was what really jumped out to me and kind of what stood out in college as well, just because, you know, he could really, you know, he has the size and the strength and the power to really kind of impose his will on guys and move guys in the run game. So I saw some of that as a rookie. And then, you know, coming into, well, throughout training camp so far, seems like he's kind of taken another step and looked great.

So, you know, I mean, that would be awesome because I think, you know, even if we didn't get rave reviews of him so far, you know, even if it was just, you know, incremental improvements, I still was thinking that the Vikings had, you know, one of the definitely the 10 best tackle pairings in the league you know and maybe even you know higher than that so yeah this is a really good tackle pairing in place so i i think that's kind of you know better probably the best tackle pairing that you guys have had since we've been talking yeah i think that he has the potential to be better than riley reef uh because of his

physical upside which is which is higher than reefsif's was. Reif was kind of like having to grind it out. Technician. Yeah, right, right, exactly. And everything had to be exactly right. And if he wasn't 100%, then you started to see some fall off in his play. But what impresses me about Derrissaw is last year, the guy went through kind of a lot. Like he had an injury coming in and then he had to have another surgery and his head coach was kind of complaining about it at the podium which you know I think could be tough for a young player put a lot of pressure on a young player right away and then when he has to come in I think it was Miles Garrett was the first guy he had to face in the

entire NFL and then his first start at home was against Randy Gregory. It was just like, welcome to the NFL, my friend. And we have talked about many tackles in the past who have collapsed. And this is not one of the way he battled through that first very tough situation, like adversity right off the bat and was able to play pretty well. I think that that's kind of a sign of like the makeup, because I think that the mental makeup, the emotional makeup of an offensive tackle is super important because we've seen when those guys get frustrated, it's like one mistake builds on the other and it

just can all fall apart. I thought the way he handled that last year was really impressive. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you, you know, more about the inner workings and stuff than I do. And that, you know, that all that context is, is obviously really important. So yeah, that, that speaks to, to, you know, some really positive things. I think, you know, one of the concerns for him coming out was just kind of a tendency to be, be a little lackadaisical on the field, you know, and I didn't really see that much, you know, as a rookie, you know, and I think part of it may have been playing down to competition in college, which you don't really have the opportunity to do that as a pro because all competition is usually, well, it's better than what you saw in college. So maybe, you know, that just kind of got righted

and fixed, you know, right away. So maybe that's not an issue anymore. But that was like one of the things that, you know, you could see on tape not an issue anymore but that was like one of the things that you know you could see on tape a little bit I remember the game against Richmond like he just didn't look like the same guy as he did against North Carolina so um if that kind of stuff is you know by the wayside gone now then it's really just a matter of him like refining technique now and and you know footwork and timing you know coming out of his stance and set points and and all these nuances and stuff like that which generally if you have the talent and the physical traits and you're getting you know adequate or better coaching those things are going to improve and if you stay healthy so you know seems like all

those things are kind of working in his favor and um yeah which is huge for for this team this offensive line i'm excited i guess what do you think uh the upside is because to me it's it's very very high and i was actually surprised in the draft when he wasn't taken a little bit higher than he was and so i i immediately wonder like oh does the nfl not like see something that the draft analysts see who have him going as a top 10 pick but then right away it comes to fruition that like he can play in the league. And when I watch a guy of his size move the way he moves, I think that the upside ends up being elite,

but also maybe we do have a tendency to overrate these things. So I guess how do you view it? Well, coming out, you know, I had him as a a like a late mid to late first round grade and I think the concern was what I just touched on you know in terms of his focus concentration playing with the same level of consistency uh with with those things game in game out I think and anytime with an offensive lineman I think if you have those concerns concerns, it's kind of a red flag, you know, because you want a guy to, you know, definitely check the box with finishing effort, competitive toughness, whatever you want to call it. So when those things are kind of questionable, it kind of gives you some pause.

That's the only thing that I could really think of that would that caused, you know, a little bit of a drop for him, you know, because I don't think that he any had any significant um injury uh he missed the spring of 2019 i believe with the surgery but like you know nothing crazy you know no torn acls or anything like that so that's the only thing i could think of that you know for the reason why he dropped. But yeah, I mean, I definitely saw the upside, you know, and not only the upside, but the ability to make an impact right away, especially as a run blocker. That's why I gave him, you know, the grade that I did. I compared him to Deion Dawkins coming out, you know, and I think he's probably a little bit more

athletic than Deion Dawkins, but that's probably the, probably like what you would hope the floor would be for him in year two, year three, you know, like who, and I, I'm probably a little bit higher on Deion Dawkins most, but I see an above average left tackle, you know, top 10 left tackle. Um, so I think that that's what you would hope, you know, is the floor for Darisaw, um, you know, this year or the next. And, you know is the floor for derisaw um you know this year or the next and you know i think he has potential to to get into that top five you know of course if everything goes goes well and and you know every you know all all the uh variables kind of hit in his favor i think he certainly has the the talent to to be considered up there um at some in his career. I don't think that's crazy. Yeah. I don't think that that's that we're being too high on it either when someone is that large

and moves that well and has the pedigree that they have. And then it matches up with the other day, Daniil Hunter was very complimentary of him. And like Daniil Hunter is very, very short winded and had a lot of things to say about Christian Derisos. It's sort of like a read between the lines. I don't think he's just giving us a line. I think he knows what he's seeing. And also him going up against Zedarius Smith every day in practice. You can't get much better preparation for the season than that.

Okay, now we've got to talk about the other part of the line. So Garrett Bradbury is Garrett Bradbury. This is something we've been talking about for some time, that the weakness is the weakness, and there's no solving the weakness, and we all know what the weakness is. The question that I have is, would you put in Chris Reed instead

and play him in a position that he hasn't really played in before, just because you know how weak Bradbury is going to be in those key past blocking situations like is it worth just pulling the cord on this one and saying it's over or is it worth giving it one more chance in Kevin O'Connell's scheme or to see if there's any improvement there because in camp it hasn't really looked any different but also I think you know Chris Reed is a career guard and hasn't really looked any different. But also I think Chris Reid is a career guard and hasn't really played center, so it seems pretty risky.

And we've talked about this many times of shuffling around guys to different positions that they don't play. Seems good in theory, but doesn't work very often. So how would you weigh those two things? Yeah, that's a really good question. I mean, my initial reaction and thought is to just stick with Bradbury at this point and just have Chris Reid is, you know, maybe win the right guard job or just be a, you know, really high quality backup, you know, and probably roll that way, especially because, you know, it's just kind of a continuation of that wide outside zone type of scheme that if Bradbury is going to, you know, kind of take it to a little bit, you know, higher of a level, which I, you know, I would maybe expect something incremental at best at this point, you know, it's probably going to happen in this situation.

So, yeah, I mean, I think what he can offer you in the run game is good enough to warrant, you know, keeping him in there. And, you know, the wide outside zone-based scheme is, you know, it gets thrown around as kind of, you know, a lot of teams run it, but a lot of teams run a very different variation of it. So, you know, McVay, Shanahan, you know, there's a lot of coaches that run it, and they have different tweaks, different things that they could do to help out players, depending on where weakness is. You know, I think with Bradbury specifically, in terms of anchoring and holding, you know, kind of the firmness, the depth of the pocket and that being his issue, typically that could

be helped when you have two bigger stout uh reliable guards in place you know think jason kelsey um who kelsey has gotten you know much better at anchoring and stuff like that but i mean he still gets quite a bit of help because he's you know he's 290 pounds um so you know but they've had brandon brooks and you know siamalu and now they've landed dickerson and they have all these giant dudes who are big, powerful guys. That's not really what you have here in Minnesota. Um, I think Ingram is certainly a physical presence.

I really liked Ingram coming in the draft. Um, I had, you know, like, uh, I want to say a late second or the third round grade on him. I thought he could be a potential starter this year. He does a lot of nice things in pass protection and he provides a real physical presence that could actually help Bradbury. But for a rookie to kind of be counted on to do that is tough because he's trying to find his own footing, obviously trying to make sure he could do his job at a high level first. Typically you want veteran kind of guys to be able to provide

that help to centers who are undersized, who may some of that help so i don't really see if i mean they have kind of the the physical or you know type of guys with i think cleveland also ezra cleveland i mean he plays kind of with like his hair on fire kind of guy he's very physical aggressive he needs to actually reel it in a little bit at times um but having a guy like cleveland and ingram if ingram could win the job those are the kind of guys you want next to bradbury because they're able to kind of you know knock guys down if you know they're free if they're uncovered things like that um but they they have their own issues as well you know obviously their own concerns so it's it's, it's tough, you know, it's, you know, maybe by, you know, middle end of the year,

you can see some more of that help for Bradbury and when he's isolated against certain guys, but it's tough, man. I mean, I could see the case for Reed, but like you said, having not really having a lot of experience in that, you know, at that position you know, I would just lean Bradbury at this point and hope that these guards can take a step forward and get better as the year goes on. Because I think that they're able to actually provide some help if they can, you know, kind of reach a baseline level of play. Yeah, I think one of the issues with that is just

that everybody knows by now, like in the whole league everybody knows what the guy's weakness is every game plan is gonna include hey on third and eight this is what we're doing we're going after their weak link and i think that you know some of the studies done on offensive line play showing that it's weak link system because opponents attack the weakest guy i think that that really you know has come to fruition with the Vikings because they've had good players on the line, but always one or two guys that were that weak link. And that's been Bradbury the last few years. What do you think happened? They drafted the guy in the first round. And when you're drafting a center in the first round, you should expect excellence from that guy. You should expect he's Travis Frederick or something like that. He should be a star, but it's not come to fruition. And I don't think anyone ever thought

he was going to be the most insane pass blocker of all time, but it's been among the worst in the entire NFL. I guess I wonder if you think that something just didn't go right or if they missed something when they were evaluating Bradbury coming out? Probably a little both. I mean, you know, when a guy is undersized, there's only so much you can expect from him in pass protection. There's one Jason Kelsey, and he, which I don't know if a lot of people, you know, really give a lot of credence to this, but I've heard, you know, from people in the room many times that Kelsey gets a lot of help in pass

protection and has over the years gradually, you know, granted it's, you know, gradually lessened over the years as he's gotten better with technique and things like that. But in Philly they had a system in place where the tackles play on an Island and the guards help Kelsey. And that's just kind of how it goes. And that allows him to thrive and do all the other things that he does at such an insane level. But you have to design your whole system offensively and your offensive line room. You have to cater to that.

You have to, you have to really bend everything towards that direction for that to happen. And if you aren't diligent and you don't hit on your evaluations at guard and at tackle and build a really high quality offensive line i mean it's just not going to work uh i can't think of any really undersized center in the league who's a good pass protector aside from kelsey and you know he's kind of in a unique situation um you know like really undersized you, like under 300 pound undersized or right at that mark. I mean, those guys typically just need help. I'm just kind of looking at all the NFL teams right now.

And, man, I mean, most Bradbury is just kind of uniquely, you know, small and that's tough to overcome, you know, and if you don't build the thing around him, you know, in the right way to kind of mitigate it a little bit, it's just going to get exacerbated and maybe they thought he would get a little stronger. You know, he's already strong. I mean, you know, I don't know, you know, what else you would, how much, you know, stronger you would expect him to get you know maybe better with technique and stuff like that but I think more so it's just a size thing and then playing next to bad guards I mean you know I don't know really what what else you know can be done you know or at this point you know I mean maybe early on if you get a couple stud guards next to him it

could have been a little bit better. But, yeah, it kind of is what it is at this point. Yeah, and when you talk about the size, it's not just the weight or the height. It's also the arms and the hands. Like, I've seen short players who have insanely long arms and giant hands. Two examples, Stephon Diggs and Delvin Cook, neither one of those guys is actually tall. They might both be like 5 11 or 6 foot and they have hands and arms that just make no sense with their bodies like

did you grow up under power lines like what happened here uh but that's not garrett bradbury like he has normal size hands and arms that if you look where it ranks in the nfl there's like no other players that have that i I think that some of that stuff that they should have been able to anticipate when it came to drafting him where they did to say, as much as we like this stuff, this would have to be an extreme outlier, even just hands and arms wise, but much less with the weight. And the other thing is too, I'd love you to speak to this because you interview offensive linemen in the NFL. You've been doing a great job of that for a long time. People who aren't seeing this, you've got a Quentin Nelson jersey behind you and Tron Armstead. You've had conversations with those guys. There's just not a nastiness to Garrett

Bradbury. He, in front of us, is the greatest to talk to. Super nice guy. But he even acknowledged last year that he has not not had that and I was talking with your guy Olin Krutz for a story about Bradbury maybe a year or two ago I mean talk about like the nastiest guy Olin Krutz he was kind of undersized too if you're gonna be that you have to be just willing to do anything and everything to win a rep and And I don't think I've really seen that with him. And that's why I don't think that it's going to change, but I'm also not sure that it's going to be any better if you just throw in somebody else. Yeah. I'm glad you brought that up because the competitive toughness aspect of it is huge when you're undersized, obviously. I mean,

those guys typically when you're undersized to make it that's a a prerequisite you know what i mean olin krutz uh kelsey too kelsey's crazy i mean he's he's like a you know he's just fierce out there you know he throws his body around he's crazy so yeah i mean for for small centers to succeed they they do have to have that kind of edge to them and And you're right. I mean, Bradbury's not really that guy. So, yeah, that just doesn't, you know, that kind of limits, you know, how far he can go as well. He's kind of like a finesse player. You know, he's athletic and quick. He could do some good stuff, you know, reaching guys in the zone run game and getting out to the second level. But in terms of finishing, you know, really scrapping with guys straining um and you know even if he tries to do it at some point you know he

gets overpowered you know at the same time so it's like yeah when you don't have either of those things working in your favor it's tough and you know maybe he didn't really need it in college because he was so much quicker than you know guys so we maybe it never you know, maybe he didn't really need it in college because he was so much quicker than, you know, guys. So we maybe it never, you know, the question never got raised maybe enough or, you know, people got enamored, you know, with kind of what he could do. And, yeah, you know, all those things are a factor, I think, but that's a really good point. You know, I think that's a big factor in kind of where he is right now. Yeah, I think that's, it's kind of the first major real challenge

for the coaching staff here because they were very supportive in the offseason. Oh, he's our guy, and we're excited about him. And then a couple of weeks into camp, it's like, oh, we can't just fix this issue. And there's competition, and all of a sudden, there's a lot of hedging about you know whether he's going to be the starting center so let's move on to the position that

you know i feel like um there's there's there could be a history book written about the right guard position uh since like 2014 for the minnesota vikings uh and it's not it's not a nice history book so they've got jesse davis in. It does not seem like Chris Reed is part of that competition. It looks like it's center or he's just a backup and that's it. So it's Jesse Davis. Ed Ingram, when Davis has taken veteran days, is the guy that's in there. I would think if you draft somebody in the second round, you want him to win that job.

But he hasn't taken full speed first team reps, so I can't say he looks this way or that way. Like it looks fine with the second team, but it usually does. And Jesse Davis has been around though. So give me, give me the Jesse Davis rundown because he's been around, he's played right tackle. He's played right guard. It screams to me, just the guy. But I also think that just the guy is actually quite a bit better than saying hey ollie udo you couldn't even play tackle but like what do you think a guard right so i think at very least maybe it's like josh klein vibes of someone who can handle the job if called

upon yeah i think that's probably the the best you could say about Jesse Davis. Yeah, I mean, he's played a lot of football on really bad lines, you know, in Miami, just terrible lines. So, you know, him getting a lot of playing time and stuff, you know, is a little, you know, there's a little bit of a misconception there. I mean, yeah, he's filled in a lot of positions and, you know, he has the versatility, you know, so that that's, that that's helpful. But yeah, I think you're right. He's just a guy he's certainly limited at tackle. You know, you don't want him playing tackle guard. Some of his issues in pass protection are a little bit mitigated there and helped, you know, by just kind of reducing space you know between him and the defender um so it allows him to get his hands on guys quicker but like you know he's he's pretty erratic uh with his hands um he'll get beat cleanly here and there you know he's he's a serviceable

guy maybe you know but you definitely would would want to replace him if possible you know he's just kind of one of those guys ideally he's like a really good swing backup guy who can, you know, fill in at spots, you know, for short periods of time. But, yeah, I think you're right. I mean, you draft a guy in the second round like Ed Ingram, you want him to win the job. And, I mean, I would expect him to. You know, I thought Ed Ingram's tape was impressive at LSU.

He played a lot of football there on some really good lines and he was always a standout guy. He looked really good at the Senior Bowl where he at least had some really good moments at the Senior Bowl. But yeah, I just I really liked his tape and specifically because of what he could do in pass protection. He does bring a really good physical kind of tone setting presence to him in the run game, but it also translates in the pass game. But more so than that, I think he's really good with his hands. He does a really nice job of creating leverage on blocks and not shooting his hands too early.

He has a really good knack for getting his hands on guys in pass protection and figuring out ways to work underneath and inside defenders. Like, he has some nuance to his game to go along with kind of that imposing element. And, you know, anytime I think you have those two things together, you have something there. You know, there's something to build off of that's, you know, starter worthy. So, yeah, I mean, I would expect him to get better with time and um you

know win that job and I think that he has a chance to to be a functional starter you know within the next year or two um that's kind of what a you know I had him in like the third round but like second round pick you want him to be a little bit you know more functional earlier maybe you know year one at some point ideally but if it's year year two, I think you have a guy who could be a functional, if not better starter in the next year or two. So I think you're in a pretty good spot at right guard. Because worst case, if you have a Josh Klein guy, worst case, like you said, that's pretty good. And best case, you could have an average starter in Ed Ingram who has potential for more.

So you have options there. You know, it's not too bad. I mean, I just ranked all 32 offensive lines, and I have them, you know, in like the high 20s, you know, or so with Tier four, you know, below average, but tier four starts at like 17 for me and you could interchange the order, you know, I think. So like, this is like, you know, a little bit below average line going into the year, I think until some questions get answered and maybe they could just get some adequate play at, you know, a couple of spots, especially right guard, you know, cause I think we know what center is going to be.

So especially if Darisaw makes a big jump, man, this offensive line, um, I think has a chance of being like a really firm middle of the pack kind of unit. And, you know, you could certainly win with that. So we'll see, man, but this isn't a, you know, this is a pretty good situation compared to what we've talked about over the years, I think. Folks, training camp is here and there's no better way to represent your Purple fandom by going to SodaStick.com and checking out all their Minnesota sports-inspired goods. The best football designs, in my opinion, are Randy Moss' disgusting act and the Purple People eaters look but look there's lots more for you to check out at soda stick.com s-o-t-a-s-t-i-c-k.com t-shirts hoodies hats whatever you're looking for use the

promo code purple insider at checkout for 15 off your purchase i was just gonna say it really shows you where the bar is when you're like well i've ranked all of them and uh you know it's pretty good it's like in the 20s it's like well i guess if it's not 32 uh where i guess they've had a case for that in previous years and what what they do have i think is there have been times and this goes for a lot of offensive line, but where if someone was even slightly banged up, you're playing Dakota Dozier for like a whole season. And that's really, really bad. But in this case, Chris Reed being a backup, Jesse Davis potentially ending up as a backup or a second round pick behind him. And only Udo who is not an atrocity as a tackle as a guard yes but not as a tackle you actually have some depth on the offensive line where it's not immediately over

if somebody else has to play which is again a first and I think that what we've been talking about in the last few years is kind of like there's some bones here of something that should be good but you just can't seem to get all of the puzzle pieces, no matter how many times you draft people in the first couple of rounds. And it really may, it really may swing on Ingram because if Ingram works out, then you're talking about everyone on the offensive line is drafted in the first or second round.

And then you've got it pretty solidified. And after this year you can replace Bradbury. Or even this year, if he struggles, you could put in Reed, and that's the only guy who doesn't have great pedigree. But if that doesn't work out, then you're talking about still replacing two positions. And once again, we're doing this whole thing. And I guess the last question I was going to ask is,

if you think that this offseason they went out and they got Z'Darrius Smith Jordan Hicks brought back Patrick Peterson they spent a lot of money on the defensive side Harrison Phillips and not at center to replace Bradbury or with a more serviceable right guard than Jesse Davis I wonder if you think that they took the right direction or if there was somebody you looked at and said now they really should have signed him or if you think they still should try to sign JC TC. Tretter if he's going to play. I don't know what the deal with him is. Yeah, I mean, I think Tretter might have like a little bit of a back thing that hasn't been really reported.

I've heard that last year. We'll see. I don't know if that's one of the factors that why he isn't signed but um but yeah uh i mean you know i i probably would have looked at you know the the center um free agent class you know pretty pretty heavily um you know i i know treader was in there um gosh who else was in there a couple guys got re-signed pretty quick i know ben jones got re-signed pretty quick I know Ben Jones got re-signed pretty quick and maybe like one or two others so you probably would have had a you know a better starter in there I don't think anything drastic you know probably just a you know better pass

protector you know go so maybe that would have been pretty significant you know I could make a case going that route for sure you know but wanting to build your defensive line, you know, I don't think it's crazy that they went the route that they did and getting Zedaria Smith. And you mentioned Jordan Hicks. You know, I love the idea of maintaining that defensive line, you know, and, you know, replacing Weverson Griffin's been, you know he he was really impressive last year uh to me man when i talked to her sean slater he said everson griffin was one maybe the hardest guy he went against um but yeah uh you know getting a guy like zadarius in there you know is awesome so i i get it but yeah certainly make the case that bradbury could have been So I think, though, the difference with the offensive line now is you have Darathal in place.

And, you know, so you mentioned how it's kind of similar. It could be similar if center and right guard become concerns after the season. You know, and that's valid. But, like, man, to have those tackles in place, if Darathal really is much better, it's much different than years past, you know, because now you have two studs at tackle, man, that gives you a lot of a lot more flexibility, I think. And I'm excited if Derrissaw really is that much better this year,

this offensive line will be better. You know, the Bradbury thing's going to rear its head certainly, but man, it's just such a different dynamic to me. Now when I look at this offensive line, cause you got these two building blocks outside and you know, some promise at guard now. So it's like, I don't know, man, I feel pretty good about where it is right now. Okay. Last thing before I let you go,

I want your hottest offensive line NFL take, because you did do your 32 rankings for author or ranking all 32 teams for establish the run. So when you were making your rankings, what was your hottest O-line take? I know you're not a hot take guy. That's not really your thing. If you listen to the show, clearly the last 30 minutes, it's been very obvious. You're not a hot take guy. But there's got to be some hot offensive line take out there, right,

as you're making the rankings going like, no, I believe in this team, no matter how much the haters hate their guards or whatever. I mean, I have the Lions very high. I have them fourth overall for offensive line. I don't know if that's hot take. Yeah, I mean, I think people think that this offensive line. I don't, I don't know if that's pretty hot. Yeah. I mean, I think people think that this offensive line is pretty good. I don't believe in the team necessarily, but the offensive line, I think is really good. They have one weak spot in by tie

at guard, but I think they have four plus starters. So that's, that's one that I was a little different. I think the saints, you know, have a better off, have a good chance at having a better offensive line than most people may think, despite losing Tron Armstead. And there's a lot to kind of like what they have there. I'm trying to think here. I'm going down my rankings as far as, you know, I was kind of surprised at how low I had the 49ers. I think I had them at 18.

You know, I think that they can rise up that the rankings with time but to me looking at their offensive line it's it's really it's Trent Williams and everybody else uh you know and obviously when you have the best offensive lineman in the league that's a great spot to start um and when you're in a Kyle Shanahan scheme obviously one of the two or three most offensive line friendly schemes in the league. So they'll be able to get by better than most, but their interior this, you know, for week one, there's a very good chance that they are going to have a combined zero starts on their interior for week one. So that to me was a little bit surprising. You know, I kind of had an idea.

I knew Aaron Banks was there. I knew Spencer Burford was there. Both those guys, to me, was a little bit surprising. I kind of had an idea. I knew Aaron Banks was there. I knew Spencer Burford was there. Both those guys, they have zero starts. But then Jake Brendel has taken over for Alex Mack, zero starts. And they're counting on Mike McGlinchey to kind of regain what he had two, three years ago, which, by all accounts in camp, it sounds like he looks good again. So maybe they'll have the tackle situation you know, the tackle situation situated, but that's even a question.

And then to have zero starts at three positions on the interior, man, that's kind of tough to overcome even if you are Kyle Shanahan. So I'm really interested to see that one. And I don't know if that's a hot take, but 18 overall for the 49ers with Trent Williams, that might catch people off guard a little bit okay yeah I would give it like uh that's a warm summer day take I think uh but no I mean with a rookie essentially rookie quarterback in Trey Lance who has uh only started a couple times in

his career to have an inexperienced interior and a lot goes on this is like this subtle quarterback offensive line relationship with pass protection blitzes are always getting more creative and he can run of course and escape but i mean there's no escaping when somebody comes free right so it's like you've got to have them on the same page and with no starts yeah that's a little bit uh concerning for a team that i think has very very high expectations. If you're getting rid of a quarterback eventually that took you to the NFC Championship game and a Super Bowl in recent years and going to Trey Lance, it's a little bit surprising

that they would just say like, OK, here's some inexperienced offensive line. You'd think at least it's centered that they would want somebody who had been around. Yeah, yeah, that's that's exactly kind of my thinking as well. I also have the Titans 28 overall, so that might surprise some people. Those are probably my hottest takes, the Lions, Titans, 49ers. I don't really, like you said, I don't know. I mean, typically my offensive line thoughts may differ from other people, so some of these may be hotter than I'm giving credit to.

I don't know. But yeah, those would probably be my picks. Well, it's not like the NFL draft where you have 8,000 people who are all coming out with their offensive line rankings. So it's maybe you and a couple of other people looking at them. But I think that what you're saying just in general about where the Vikings stand in this, I agree with you that if things go even relatively right for them,

even if Bradbury isn't different, everything else looks like it should be better. The question always is how much will that matter when you have the weak link. But there's something there to build on for the future as this team sort of competitively rebuilds with the two tackles and then Cleveland. And then we'll see what ends up happening with Ingram. So maybe at some point, some point, someday, I know it will come.

Brandon, we'll do this show and you'll be like, I got him in my top 10 and I will lose my mind because we have been talking, we've been doing shows since 2016, and there is not a single time that you've ever had them in the top half of the league, and that is absolutely deserved. So I feel this day will someday come upon us, Brent. Yeah, like I said, man, I feel like the foundation, if you have the tackles in place, those are typically the hardest positions to get, maybe center. You know, that would probably be the next step. But yeah mean i feel like i see like you said the bones are there for that to

happen one day you know whereas the last few years they weren't there so yeah i mean i think there's a chance brandon thorn it's uh let me try to remember your twitter it's at Brandon Thorne NFL is that the twitter uh and Trench Warfare newsletter I am a subscriber of yours and just incredible amounts of information on offensive line play and I know that our audience loves offensive line talk so go check out Trench Warfare also you contribute to establish the run which is Evan Silva's site and that's where your offensive line rankings are. So awesome to have you on the show once again. We will get together soon and maybe, okay, I've got a time when we'll do it.

The Packers defensive line versus the Vikings offensive line, Packers O-line versus Vikings D-line. That's going to be a huge determining factor of week one. So before then, we'll do a full analysis and breakdown of the trenches of that game so uh i will look forward to that and we will talk soon sir sounds good man