Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Breaking down the new Vikings coordinators' press conferences

Episode Date: February 25, 2022

Matthew Coller and Sam Ekstrom talk about Wes Phillips and Ed Donatell's opening press conferences. Did Phillips reveal anything about Kirk Cousins? Will Donatell's 3-4 defense make a difference for the Vikings keeping or moving on from Danielle Hunter? Plus, we spin the quarterback wheel and talk about Matthew's end to jury duty. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello and welcome to another episode of Purple Insider, Matthew Collar here. Sam Ekstrom is fresh from the press conferences of Ed Donatell and Wes Phillips, the Vikings' new defensive coordinator and offensive coordinator. And I am done with jury duty, Sam. Wow. What's the verdict? I don't know. And I'm not going to be a part of it.

So what happens is they always have several alternate jurors in case somebody gets sick, especially with COVID. And so you have to be there as the alternate juror, but you also don't know if you are the alternate juror. Because if they told the alternates, hey, you're the alternate, I'd just be asleep in the back. Who cares? I'm not even a part of this. So we get to the very end. We go through all the stuff, all the the evidence days and days of this through this case and then the closing statements and the there are these long presentations from uh i guess calling the defense and the offense and then they get to the end and it's like okay the jury is

going to go in that room next to us and deliberate except for three of you. And I was one of the three. And so my opinion does not matter, but I also got to go home and I'll check out what happened to the case. And so I'll just tell you a little bit about it since I've been talking about it. And now there's no gag order on me. The judge said, you're free to talk about it. So I'm going to go with him. It was a sex trafficking case in which basically the cops had done a sting operation and had discovered at this hotel that this gentleman was say, selling his friend and possibly another friend, but we were skeptical on that. And so, you know, they went through all the evidence. Here's what was on his phone. Here was the pictures. Here were videos.

Here were text messages, all these things. And here's what happened. Here's what the cops say happened. And there were two things that were interesting about it. Number one is that the defendant did not testify and no one testified on his side, which is a strategy because you're basically like, prove it, like just prove it, prove that I did this. Right. You're opening yourself up to cross exam if you do that. Exactly. And I don't think that this gentleman really wanted that. So, you know, they didn't do that, but the defense, just like day after day of pounding on the evidence and the defense attorney had lots of objections and sidebars and all sorts of stuff like that. It is not like law and order because that takes an hour. This took all day sometimes to figure out, is this piece of evidence going to be allowed? Is this not?

They were constantly bickering over evidence, over what people could say on the stand. This one detective was on the stand for a day and a half, basically. I mean, it was a drag to get to the end. And then when they were giving their final presentations, the defense attorney who several of us called better call Saul. I mean, Saul Goodman was this guy and he went up and he brought the game of clue with him. The, you know, the board game. Oh yeah.

And he pulled it out and he started unraveling it and he's got the board and everything else. And he goes through this whole spiel about how even in the game of clue kids understand that you need to know who did it where they did it and whatever with whatever with what weapon right and he said the state's case against us does not show any of these things i mean the problem is that, um, if you are trafficking someone, maybe don't do it on the phone you use all the time, um, because then they can look at it and see all the things you did. So that was, uh, this, this gentleman's mistake, but I don't get to rule on it. I mean, my, uh, colleagues, cohorts, fellow jurors, they might decide differently than I thought. I mean, my, uh, colleagues, cohorts, fellow jurors, they might decide differently than I thought. I mean, I thought that there was very compelling evidence on a couple of charges.

There was not as compelling of evidence on another charge. Um, the defense attorney just didn't really make a great argument. It was a hard argument to make. It was like dead to rights from the very beginning. And he tried to make the case that like i mean do we even know that his cell phone is his cell phone but the unfortunate thing was his phone it was called his phone like it was his name and it was just like you know how like in your phone in the contacts yourself is sam's phone or matt's phone it was that guy's name's phone. It was like, well, that's pretty tough case. And then what these people do is that they post on these websites, uh, like they make posts and they put their phone numbers in it.

So the phone that's on him, that's called his phone is on the post and the cops texted his phone, had an exchange with him about a purchase. And then when they got there, he's there with the girl that he's trafficking. Pretty tough to overcome that. So I think what I would have gone with is, uh, yeah, probably, probably would have gone the way that I expect my fellow jurors, former fellow jurors to go. But I can say that I learned a lot about the process. I mean, it is really arduous to make a case against somebody. They put a lot of work into it. It takes a long time and it's a lot.

It's like long days for the jury and you have to pay attention a lot. And there's a lot of instructions. Like the judge goes through one by one all these different things and he's talking he's giving us like dissertations about bias and things like that and uh at the end of the defense my favorite moment other than bringing out the clue game which was just like cheesy come on so many questions about the clue game like yeah do you think he uses it for every all the time yes yes this is not the first time but it's the first time for us right uh but at the end and this is when you know you're really in tough and we'll get to the coordinators in a second i promise you know you're in tough when the guy says look look, what I want, Mr. His name as my neighbor, probably not,

but that doesn't mean that they proved their case. And you're like, is that really what you want to say about this guy right now? I mean, I thought there was maybe a few avenues to try to argue that other people may have used his phone. That was maybe the best shot or to try to argue that he was not exactly what you think he is, but more of a friend of the person who was selling herself, but he was just holding the money and help it. I don't know. It was a very difficult case to make on his side. It becomes like everything becomes like sports in my head.

But I should also say that like it was dark it was very dark it was like we all watch svu and stuff law and order and we're just like used to how dark stuff is but then you see it and it's like yeah that yeah that's that's pretty rough i I mean, this the victim. It was one of those situations where she doesn't have anywhere to go kind of thing. And then it's this person taking advantage of that. I mean, it was really. Yeah, it was really messed up. But, you know, so now I'm now I, unlike him soon, am free, likely he might get off.

I doubt it, though. I'm talking with the other alternate jurors. I would be very surprised if they're not compelled by the evidence. But I am free and will be going to the combine just fine. And we're here now in the middle of the day because I'm done. And that's the jury duty experience. Well, I mean, I'm sorry, first of all, that you got left off the game day roster for this Super Bowl.

I was inactive. Yeah, inactive on the day, the moment of truth. And you did not get a chance to collaborate with your fellow jurors, which we heard a lot about collaboration today. I was hoping you would say that the Saul Goodman lawyer would pull the ultimate Goodman, which was up from the show, hiding the defendant in the crowd and having a fake defendant on the stand. Genius. And yeah, and having them identify the fake defendant.

Brilliant. That show's coming back, by by the way in like two months it is i mean it like top three shows for me ever bojack horseman if people have not seen it might be my favorite show of all time and then better call saul and probably sopranos have you seen sopranos no you've told me a lot about it and it's a classic so you gotta get it's just one of those ones it's it's tough to get the ball rolling on a long show like that yeah i mean there's hundreds of episodes it goes a really long time but uh if people haven't seen bojack i feel like that one is one that i bring up and i make a reference to and people are like no i don't know

cartoon but it's not you got to stick with it it's one of those things anyway and let me make one more television reference that i made in the room. So we had our own locker room that was not like the Vikings locker room. It was like Michael Scott paper company where it was just like a closet with a bathroom. And it's just like, what COVID can we get a bigger room? Like really? Yeah. But I have to say, and this doesn't matter to anyone but um my fellow

jurors were just terrific i mean great people easy to be around we made a lot of minnesota small talk because we can't talk about the case so i'm sure everyone wanted to be like are you buying this but you can't like that's you're not allowed until deliberations. So we, you know, we talked about jobs and people talked about their kids, their pets, the, you know, lots of things. Everyone was really nice. And I, I trust them to make the right calls when it comes to this. So there you go. How's the press conferences that, I mean, when is the last time I really mean this, that I was not at two straight press conferences? I feel like the answer would be never since I've been here. Yeah.

Well, you've missed the introductions to these four people. And first impressions are very important, Matthew. Thanks, Sam. Thanks. I'm not sure that they're ever going to take to you because you're going to come in cold and you're going to be this outsider now. I mean, we're all best friends. Oh, me and ed and matt wes who you call him eddie calling him eddie reference by the way again wes phillips gives off serious connor roy vibes from succession which i don't think you've seen i have not connor roy mainly the beard not as much the odd personality um but anyway it was

it was good it was good a lot of enthusiasm a lot of buzzwords i would say a little bit of good information a little bit of insight um i'm not walking away jaw on floor i don't think we learned a lot of trade secrets today um i found wes phillips probably to be the most illuminating um and you know he's got there's so much lineage there you know bum and wade are like two of the most distinctive it's a very distinctive football family um so to have wes you can kind of see wade in his face and you're like oh man you're to have some good lines. I can tell. So I'm looking forward to that.

But I didn't, like writing the takeaways for this is going to be a little bit of a chore because these guys don't want to overstep in their introductory presser. But I'd say I got a few little nuggets for you. Did you get a chance to watch it? I did. I read through it. I read through the transcript of it. Um, like they have at the courts, they have a court transcript that you're not allowed to see as a jury actually. So if

you're confused about something, someone said, you have to check it with everyone else's notes. I thought you got the transcript of all the things that people said, but not true. Um, so I read through the transcripts and the one thing, there's a few things I want to talk about from it. Number one is when someone says things about Kirk Cousins that are just completely not true. Like, what does that make you think? Like when Wes Phillips calls Kirk Cousins athletic now, look, I'm not trying to insult Cousins. He is objectively unathletic. Like if you go to his relative athletic score, which is his combine performance, he ran a four, nine, three, I believe he is not one of the taller, bigger, faster, uh, jukier, like any of these things, quarterbacks in the NFL.

And so there, he said several things about Kirk Cousins that just weren't true at all. And I, I wondered what you thought of that, because I think like, are you just saying words that might apply to quarterbacks and trying to make sure you cover it all and don't insult the guy and don't say anything that could be taken in any way? Because already Kevin O'Connell has made several headlines about Kirk Cousins by not committing to him. So I was wondering what you thought of his comments. Yeah. I mean, the, not just the, he's athletic thing, but he can throw from all kinds of platforms. I don't know about that. No, that's not true at all. He had, he had, he had a nice, remember that fade away? Um,

was it in Seattle or D I think it was Dallas. He had like a he had a nice remember that fadeaway. Was it in Seattle or I think it was Dallas. He had like a fadeaway pass, which was the one time he's done that. And and a one handed catch by Rudolph. I want to say that was pretty impressive. Other than that, he can throw off drift. The transcript says I'm not sure what that means, but I love I love this. Like, what can you say about your cousins that is technically true without you know saying anything more or incriminating quote he's in the building

and the guys know it that's that's an actual quote from wes phillips um i think i think there's a lot of politeness i think there's a lot of wanting to keep his stock up and not rock the boat. But the sum of the parts, dude, I mean, there's been like six Kevin O'Connell interviews now. And each one he gets dodgier and dodgier about Kirk Cousins. Kirk Cousins like cancels his football camp out of the blue. There's rumors of trade calls. It's all going the direction we thought it would. And they're talking around kind of the elephant in the room as is expected. When Wes Phillips calls him athletic,

I guess I just wonder if maybe he's just throwing out platitudes and he's not super comfortable doing big press conferences. And if he just got a little bit in, he, he kind of went robot like cliche machine coach, which happens from time to time because that's not it. There's just no basis in reality there. But they're going to be nice to Kirk until the day he's gone. And then when he's gone, they'll still be nice to Kirk. They'll say, well, he's a great quarterback, but we were blown away by this deal.

That's what it's going to sound like. And there's no reason to insult Cousins anyway. I mean, cousins has played better in Minnesota than he played in Washington. And if you want it, like who is to blame for the fact that this didn't work, it's not Kirk cousins for signing a piece of paper that said you play here for a gajillion dollars. And he's played every game except for the one COVID game and the one where he was out at the end of the year against the Bears in 2019. So those are the only games he missed.

So he was there and he was very much Kirk, like the same player that you could have watched in Washington. And the team failed to build around him to work with the salary cap to work with their roster they failed to successfully draft and also they failed to anticipate how much kirk cousins weaknesses would hurt them and gosh i just can't get it out of my head the the chart that shows cousins when he's asked to do anything else but but throw to his first read, it just shows so clearly that he's well below average. And yet Matt Stafford and other great quarterbacks pass their first read. And that means scrambling check downs or a second read. The great quarterbacks are way up there. And like, that was something that was evident from

Cousins in Washington. His lack of leadership was evident in Washington. I mean, go back and look at the quotes from his former coach and teammates and things like that. I mean, all these things, they were there and then they saw him for two years. It didn't work for two years and they extended him based on a playoff game win in which he was terrific. We were there sitting next to each other. He was terrific in that game against new Orleans, but that's one game. And they extended it. Like these are not things that Kirk cousins did wrong. So there's no reason to come in and just be like,

yeah, bleep Kirk. He's he's, you know, doesn't have a good arm or anything else. You know, you, why would you do that?

So you're going to just offer a bunch of compliments. It also is not Wes Phillips is call at all. It's crazy. And it's Kevin. And those two guys will make that call. So if you're Wes Phillips, what do you say? It's just that when you try to give a non-answer and we've done this a lot,

this dance, when you try to give a non-answer, but your non-answer is ridiculous. Then we're like, okay, well, we know what you're trying to do here. You know what I mean? It's like,

you gotta tell that line of a non-answer that still actually makes sense. Yeah, it's it's kind of and I don't think we're being unrealistic to say that I don't think we're looking through this through a too biased of a lens. Like, it's pretty clear that these statements are elusive, right? They're they're not answering the questions head-on they are are tiptoeing around them and Kevin O'Connell going on Chad Hartman yesterday and saying that well training camp's a long ways away when asked if Kirk Cousins will be the quarterback at training camp that is such a telling answer so I don't know how you can really interpret it any other way. And again, every statement about Kirk Cousins is grounded in sort of like the present, you know, and all the answers are, well, this is what Kirk isousins is, but they're not committing to one minute beyond that, which to me, it speaks volumes. And I think the more answers we get on a record about this, the more it's like you listening to all the evidence, the more circumstantial evidence there is for us to draw our conclusions that won't put anybody in jail, but can make for, you know, good tweets and podcasts. Folks, we've got an even better offer to tell you about from SodaStick.

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I mean, I'm kind of all about having some fun with this bridge year. That's why I like Minshew. And that's why Fitzpatrick would be great. He would be unbelievable. Guys would rally around him. The fans would absolutely love it. And he might be able to win you some games and certainly could win a cousin's amount of games too. His last season at age 38, he went four and three with Miami. And I know that he's been on

some pretty crappy rosters. I mean, usually when you're that type of bridge quarterback, you're not surrounded by talent a lot of times. So, you know, didn't really look great at toward the end of his Jets tenure. He was on the, you know, the Bucs filling in for for Jameis and not looking great, not looking great with the Dolphins a couple of years ago. But this is a quarterback that's also gone 10 and six before. And he's thrown 220 touchdowns in his in his uh nfl career so i i would love fitzpatrick how about a how about a ryan fitzpatrick turns into

chris chandler or something like a guy who was a bad journeyman backup and then all of a sudden takes the vikings to the super bowl like chris chandler did with atlanta okay maybe not here here's what I think in terms of the Ryan Fitzpatrick discussion. Cause I'm sure there are some people who are like, what, what the hell would be the point of moving on from Kirk to have Ryan Fitzpatrick? I mean, well, a, you are drafting a quarterback in that case, obviously. Yeah. But also be, here's the thing about the last couple of years. They have been horrible. And I mean, like not fun at all.

Last year, there were a lot of tense games and there were some entertaining wins at the end. But I don't think that Vikings fans have had a good time. And since I've most recently been talking to jurors, one of the jurors was talking about how she's from wisconsin she likes the packers but her boyfriend is from minnesota he likes the vikings and how she said i just really have ended up feeling bad for vikings fans because it's always so brutal and i was like yeah i mean the last two years have not been fun at all when kirk cousins melts it's not fun when we all know this look it's just not it's like not at all fun to watch because you know it's there it's the check down to the fullback it's the

happy feed it's the nervousness in the pocket it's like oh it's one of those games and you know coming sort of close to the in the hunt graphic and then not going anywhere like it's just not entertaining ryan fitzpatrick will make it fun one way or the other i mean there will be lots of throws down the field that work and lots of throws down the field that don't if you have ryan fitzpatrick as your quarterback and of course he's working with a younger quarterback too at this at the same time um so i you know i mean from that perspective you could at least have some entertainment value. I think a really, really excellent locker room person in Ryan Fitzpatrick. I mean, it doesn't get much better than that.

And I was trying to look up the stat. I swear he had a really high big time throw rate in. Yeah, OK, it wasn't bad. It wasn't bad in 2020. But throughout his career, he's had different times where he's like had a lot of big time throws going down the field. So would you win much? Um, no, of course not, but you'd have a great person to help out your rookie and you would have a really fun season. And I know from interviewing Ryan Fitzpatrick, I mean, the guy's just, the guy's just great. Like he's as great as you think he is to be around. Yeah. And he'd have a different approach than like a Baker

Mayfield who would still, I think, be trying to prove himself and he'd be looking over his shoulder at the rookie that you draft. And, you know, he would, would know that this probably isn't a long-term home for him. And that, that might affect the, what you're going to get out of him. Now I'm not saying that that's a bad option because I don't think wins are all that important this year, but I think that Fitzpatrick just, I mean, it gives, it gives you a quarterback. Who's not going to be afraid to force the ball to Justin Jefferson. Yeah. And you get to see what happens in that case. And he'll be surrounded by a pretty, a pretty good staff. That's going to empower him. And you know, after missing last last year he's probably going to be you know super

appreciative to be there and he'd be pumped at the opportunity and it would just it would be a a healthy marriage or fling i guess you should say with uh with fitzpatrick even if it's only a year let's say you wouldn't see him barking at his teammates. Thank you. Yeah, you're welcome. As well, we'll continue to dig, dig, dig through a lot of these quarterback scenarios with the spinning the wheel of quarterbacks. But let's get back into what Wes Phillips had to say. And we'll talk about Ed Donatel too here in a second, but just as a note, I I've been asked a couple of times what people think of the idea that CJ ham could maybe be gone because they use a lot of 11 personnel in Los Angeles. I don't think that like everything that another team did that people came from means they do all the things the other team did. So CJ ham, it almost, when we talk about CJ ham,

it almost feels condescending to be just like, oh, the fullback and whatever else, because fullbacks are amazing and so forth. But when Kevin Stefanski was here, they used CJ Ham as a legit weapon. He would line up in different places. They would use him in motion at times. He's a really good blocker. He could catch the ball. I don't know of any other fullback in the last 10 years. Who's run a go route and caught the ball. And CJ Ham

did it last year. I think it would be a mistake to just be like, no, we ran a three wide receiver stuff. So see a CJ, you want good players and you want to use them to the best of your ability. And I think that there's an edge in the NFL that has been utilized by a few teams of having a fullback or tight end big personnel because no teams have linebackers anymore. They run, some teams run one linebacker. And so if you're out there putting big personnel, that means that the other team is having to put on the field dudes that aren't usually on the field. And I feel like that's a really great tool in the bag to have. Yeah, I agree with you.

And Phillips indicated too, that the 11 stuff with the Rams became their preference later in the year. And they ended up being number one in the league and using it, but they did start out the year in more 12, he said. And then there were some injury issues and obviously, you know, Higby was banged up end of the year as well and they were just kind of forced into going more 11 um but I think there's a willingness on this staff to certainly try to exploit those third linebackers create mismatches and I I especially think that Irv Smith is going to be a real focal point of this offense trying to get him in those mismatches

and getting down the field. That's probably the weapon that hasn't been as well deployed as he could have been in his first two years in the league. And then last year hurt. I think there's the most potential to squeeze a lot out of that position. I mean, hard to get a lot more out of Justin Jefferson. We know exactly what Adam Thielen is, but Irv Smith probably could explode. I mean, there's a huge explosive potential there, especially in a contract year for him. So I'm looking forward to see what they do. We don't know who their tight ends are at this point because they have three free agent tight ends and Irv Smith and I guess Zach Davidson it would be their backup like if the season started today um so they might end up being

11 because they won't have another good tight end but you know we'll we'll see what happens C.J. Hamm certainly show that he can be in that tight end role and Wes Phillips mentioned that that they're going to evaluate all the personnel and they might, you know, use C.J. Hamm because he is a good piece of this existing offense and he's under contract. And I'm not sure what the guarantee is, but, you know, that matters. And I think that, you know, Hamm sort of became this guy that it was like, oh, Kirk is checking down to C.J. Things are going bad. But there were also plays like he's had explosive plays throughout the years where there was one in Carolina, but Carolina was just like, well, no way they give it to that. Oh my God. They gave it to that guy. Right. You know, it's like this thing every once in a while,

he will surprise you. He was a very good running back in college. And I just think like, it's not my obsession with old fullbacks that causes this, but that the number two tight end, the fullback, like these are things that you can use effectively. And when they were using Rudolph and Irv Smith on the field together a lot, it was effective because other teams were like, what do we do here? Do we stay in nickel? Do we bring in another linebacker? And San Francisco does this all the time. So there was another thing that Wes Phillips got asked about, which was phillips which is wade phillips's dad who's a famous nfl coach for the houston oilers and the new orleans saints and bum phillips used to wear a big giant like 10 gallon what do they call 12 15 70 gallon hat what is that how many gallons is

it whatever i thought it was 10 gallon 10 gallon hat okay she used to wear that on the sideline and like like cowboy boots and stuff is amazing how this is got banned i have no idea like letting coaches dress however they want should be a thing that comes back but uh wes phillips said he was less quotable and showed that in his press conference but i pulled up a couple of great bum phillips quotes and they're they're super good uh here's one that i like um that isn't like hilarious but i think is a good quote uh how do you win by getting average players to play good and good players to play great? That's how you win. I totally agree.

Bum Phillips. Bum Phillips has some gems here that aren't just like, oh, he's this funny old football coach like that are actually good. But there are some that are funny. I mean, when Wade's Twitter is gold to assuming that that's Wade, who's the one tweeting. So Wes has to have some dry, dry humor back there somewhere. when wade's twitter is gold too assuming that that's wade who's the one tweeting so wes has to have some dry dry humor back there somewhere he struck me a little bit like stefanski where you could see in his eyes that you knew that he had like a wit about him but he wasn't going to

let you behind the curtain quite yet yeah which is fair uh and that's totally true about stefanski how about this one you fail all the time but you aren't a failure until you start blaming someone else. Well, Mike Zimmer didn't believe in that one or maybe overlook that in the bum Phillips biography or wherever that came from. If only bum could have been his bill Parcells, he would have had that different, different wisdom. Yeah. I don't know if bill did that either.

Uh, how about this one? I don't mind people thinking I'm stupid, but I don't want to give them any proof. That's a classic. That's a good one. So bum Phillips. Uh, let's see, give me another thing that stuck out to you from way or from a West Phillips. I'll tell you a Wade Phillips story, and then we can talk about it. Donatello. Okay. Two things. Number one, I don't know his awareness about Eric Kendrick's fear fear-based comments but west brought it up twice um using that he doesn't want to be a fear-based coach he doesn't want guys to be scared of him and he used that in multiple responses which i thought was incredibly interesting and contrasting um to the previous leadership and it it might have just come out organically.

Maybe he might not have even been aware of it. Because it was pretty on the nose. Like an exact contrast to what we heard Kendrick say. Secondly, I asked him about offensive line traits that he's looking for. And he said, quote, something like, we don't want guys that can only run block and not pass block. And that's pretty on the nose too. You know, that describes mainly Garrett Bradbury,

but, you know, a couple of these guys that have been brought in that are light, mobile, not very sturdy in pass protection, and it kind of, you know, might shed some light on who they won't be going after in free agency or the draft, the type of linemen they won't be as interested in pursuing. Because he also talked about the, you know, the place of the running game. And he spoke about it by saying the running game is important, but, you know, and then he had the qualifier of, well, you know, winning is more important. So we're not going to run just for the sake of running the ball. And I think that's kind of what the previous iteration of this leadership believed as well. So I think there's going to be some

different views, which is good, which is what we expected and kind of, kind of hard hitting against everything that was believed previously was contested with what Wes Phillips said today. Yeah. Something he said about the run game that stood out to me. He said that people would accuse them of abandoning the run. And he used the example of against Todd Bowles, his defense, it's really hard to run. And so they would mostly focus on the past. And I thought, sir, you will not be criticized here for abandoning the run. In fact, abandon it right now. Abandon it. Just get away from the run and everyone will like you. Before you even start designing run plays, abandon them. It's sort of funny. It's like, oh man, you're not going to get that here uh now there are times in games and we've covered many games together so you know that this does drive me crazy where teams are running the ball really successfully and then stop doing it and los angeles last year was the counter example to that sony michelle of all people

was just steamrolling the vikings in that game and matt stafford was throwing interceptions to everyone with two hands so uh they just kept running and they've steamrolled over the Vikings in that game and ran for 200 yards. And it was just like, that's what you want out of a running game. Your running game is if you can't stop our running game, we're just going to destroy you with it. And, uh, if you can, we're still going to use it in play action and things like that, where it's been proven to be successful. So I think that he was striking the right tenor. One other thing I wanted to tell you about with Wes Phillips, he mentioned that his dad used to be criticized for not wearing the headset on the sideline.

This is true. I grew up, I mentioned this all the time, but you know, grew up in Buffalo and in 1999, Wade Phillips is the head coach of the bills. I'm 13. And I remember this being talked about all the time. Why does Wade Phillips not wear the headset? What is wrong with Wade Phillips? Doesn't he know what's going on in this game? Every time there was a mistake in a game way, doesn't know what's going on. He doesn't have the headset on what is happening here. The bills in 1999 had the number two defense in points against and the number one defense in yards against with Wade not having the headset on,

which tells Mike Zimmer that you don't actually have to do all the jobs yourself, that Ted Cottrell was a really good defensive coordinator. So it was funny because the 99 Bills are one of my favorite teams of all time. Doug Flutie comes on the scene, goes 10 and five as a starter. He's running around. He's making plays. He's super fun. There's Flutie flakes. And then imagine if this happened today, Sam week 16. Well, let me rewind the, the bills had traded a first round pick for Rob Johnson for, to the Jaguars, uh, in 98. So the owner wanted Rob Johnson to play all the time, but Doug flew. He was playing better. They kept sticking with him week 17, a meaningless game against the

Colts. Rob Johnson comes in, goes crazy, throws for 300 yards, three touchdowns, just looks brilliant. And the owner, and this has been confirmed by Wade Phillips, the owner of the bills told Wade Phillips in the playoff game against Tennessee, you have to play Rob Johnson. So after going 10 and five as a starter for Doug Flutie, Wade Phillips was forced to bench Flutie for Rob Johnson, the playoff game. Here's the crazy thing. Rob Johnson leads a game winning drive that is then overtaken by the music city miracle. Rob Johnson was horrible in the first half of the game. Great. In the second half,

they get the lead on the Titans who went to the super bowl and then the music city miracle. It would have been like this crazy story of like Rob Johnson starts one game all year wins in the playoffs or the game winning drive. And instead it went down legendary the other direction. So there's my way to help story. That's crazy. I remember, I mean, just to take this bunny trail a step further,

I remember the 2000 bills. Cause I remember my dad took me to a bills Vikings game in 2000, my first NFL game. I was in the literally the top row of the stadium in the Metrodome. Could not have been higher. And Doug Flutie was the quarterback. And I just looked up his stats from that year. That was the only game Doug Flutie lost.

There must have been an injury or something to Johnson. But Johnson went 4-7 in 2000, and Flutie went 4-1. So clearly, the Rob Johnson momentum did not carry you know, carry over to 2000 either. And the Flutie magic did, but it looks like they stuck with Johnson and they went eight and eight that year. And here's the crazy thing about Rob Johnson in he would just he just would get sacked all the time. He was sacked forty nine times in 11 games. She's nuts. Like, I mean, it's just getting sacked once every like couple of dropbacks Flutie was clearly the better player. I mean, there was really no way around it. Uh, but the

owner, the owner, this is what you never know when your team makes crazy decisions. And the fact that you don't have to really deal with this with the Vikings is, is unique because in Buffalo, they did one time, uh, Ralph Wilson, who owned the bills, he made them draft Willis McGahee who had torn his ACL. Like you wouldn't even be able to play that year, but he wanted them. So he forced their front office to draft a running back who had torn his ACL in the like college championship, just insane stuff used to happen there. And now like, you know, I mean, there's insane stuff, but there's also a non-disclosure agreement.

So let's get to Ed Donatel real quick. The three, four, my friends, I guess it won't matter how many times we kind of talk about like, there's really not that big of a difference and they're going to mix fronts. And it's really just based on sort of the strength of the defense at this point. There's not going to be four linebackers on the field. But the 3-4 is alive, and Ed Donatel is pumping life into it. And so he did actually answer a Daniil Hunter question, by the way, Sam.

He did. I'm not sure he wanted to. I mean, his first Hunter response was very short. And then he was pressed on it. And he did give a little bit of info about how Hunter could be the outside linebacker or defensive end. And I felt like Donatello was hesitant to give any real info. I mean, he was also asked, what players are you excited about? He didn't want to name any names. He wouldn't really, you know, commit to kind of what their defense will look like because he claims it's going to be multiple, which I guess is a valid answer. I felt like with Donatel, it was a little more about this is my mentality.

I want to be, you know, a leader of this group. I want to stay young. I want this coaching staff to keep me young and make sure I don't get crusty. And he's got a lot of energy. I'll to stay young. I want this coaching staff to keep me young and make sure I don't get crusty. And he's got a lot of energy. I'll give him that. He seems very excited to be there. But I didn't feel like I learned a whole lot. I did find it interesting too, though, and I'll have to dig into this more, but he led a transformation in Denver from the 25th ranked defense to third last year. And that's pretty much the exact kind of turnaround that the Vikings are shooting for. I think they were 24th in points against last year, 30th in yards.

And they're trying to turn it around, obviously. So I think Denver probably had a few more resources at their disposal to make that happen. But I'll have to see what went down. Donatello didn't give me a whole lot on that. Was there anything that popped out to you in the transcript? Cause I, I thought Donatello was a little bit dodgy when it came to real details, more like Donna,

don't tell. Oh, don't, don't ask Donna. No, no, yeah. Don't,

don't go there. Uh, but, uh, thank you. You got to keep me in check sometimes. Yeah. The, do you like the fact that they hired at Donatello?

I don't know if we really talked about this much. Well, I think there's value in having veterans on your coaching staff. I mean, if everybody is doing it for the first time, then you probably are a little bit rudderless. So I'm OK with that. I mean, I'm OK with, you know, his credentials. He's obviously done this for a long time. You know, we saw the like I mentioned, the transformation in Denver. The league has changed a lot, you know, since he was a defensive coordinator in Green Bay.

There's a huge gap between his coordinator gigs. And the fact that he was able to have pretty decent success in Denver after a long, you know, stint away tells me that, yeah uh he can probably handle this it is going to be you know a little different to have now a defensive coordinator who really does have like a whole lot of power because he is going to be calling the plays he is going to have a handle on that side of the ball whereas Patterson George Edwards Adam Zimmer they were the Wes Phillips of that, you know, generation of coaches. So he does have a lot of like power in his hands in this organization. Now the benefit for Donatello is that it cannot get a lot worse. So if he shows anything next year, like whether it's just the direction of the defense, if he cultivates a few good players, you know, makes average players good, good players, great. I think he's going to be pretty favorably received

and his enthusiasm certainly, you know, hits the fan base in the right spot. They'll be excited to see his excitement. So I guess I don't really, I can't really judge him tactically that much. Is he like the hot young commodity? Is he Raheem Morris? No Morris no no he's not that but um I don't have a strong opinion against him I guess yeah I mean I think for coming from Fangio is

always a big plus experience in this situation is important I'm I'm good with that like and he can build it however he wants because if you asked me to talk about players that i was excited about on the vikings defense i'd be like well yeah there's yeah there's people on there there's people under contract is what i would say if you ask me that same question well there's people under contract uh well time is done to tell us how the defense works out too quick uh I was just going to give you a chance to react to that one, but two quick things. Rumor wise that I want you to comment on. Number one is I believe the San Francisco 49ers are not super pleased with

the phone calls they have gotten for Jimmy Garoppolo because suddenly Adam Schefter is reporting that they don't have to trade Jimmy Garoppolo. Now did their head coach say midway through the season, Trey Lance is our future? Did Jimmy Garoppolo say, yes, I've actually worked with the team about being traded? Yes, those things happened. However, if the offers weren't that good, they're going to say,

we don't have to trade Jimmy G. What do you think is going on with Jimmy G he's gone I mean this it couldn't be more transparent that San Francisco is trying to play a little bit of hardball through the media that's fine that's what the Vikings are doing that's what other teams have done before but come on now you've got maybe the potential of Tom Brady getting coaxed out of retirement to play in San Francisco, which a lot of people have projected. You've got Aaron Rodgers maybe on the move. You obviously want to have the chance to bring him in.

And if neither of those happen, you fall back on Trey Lance. You have a quarterback on a rookie deal. I mean, all of those scenarios are probably better than having Jimmy Garoppolo there. And so I guess the bottom line would be, okay, Brady falls through. He's not going to play. Roger stays in Green Bay. All right. Well, now here we are. There's going to be less quarterback movement. Are we going to accept a, like, and then you get into the argument too of well all right cleveland wants to do a deal where where does mayfield stack up with garoppolo like you know who's who's getting draft picks in that case or if it's garoppolo and cousins who's the team getting draft picks here i can see where those deals would get complicated with each team trying to say,

our quarterback is better. Now, please take him and give us draft picks. It's such a weird argument to make. So I think it's going to be, I'm sure it's going to be messy with Grappolo and with a lot of other franchises. But I don't buy for a second that he's going to hang around. I just, I don't think that that makes sense for anyone. No. And the idea that Trey Lance is really far away is really raw. I mean, he got into games

last year. He didn't fall on his face. He won a game last year. It's not like he came out and threw six picks or something. He looked better in his one. Was it one start? He looked better in his very limited starting than Zach Wilson did the whole year. Like, come on, come on. No one believes this. No one believes that you're going to keep Jimmy Garoppolo. The only way someone else is quarterbacking other than Trey Lance is if Tom Brady says, I can't do anything else but play in San Francisco.

That is the only way he's there. So this is clearly just posturing from them. They want better offers and they're trying to say, well, keep them. We swear. No, you won't. Yeah, I don't think that's going to happen at all. Let me just get real quick before we wrap up

a prediction from you. I am now predicting as Aaron Rodgers is set to make his decision 2022 or whatever, that Rodgers will come out next week and he will announce he's coming back one more year.

Going to do what Favre couldn't do. I'm going to bring you guys that second Super Bowl and I am going to cleanse my body in ways that you never even imagined. On the PFF podcast, they actually read all the things he did with this crazy cleanse. I don't want to read them out loud. We get complimented for being a kid-friendly show. It's messed up. It's just messed up.

This idea that you do a bunch of weird is messed up. It's just messed up. Like this, this idea that you do a bunch of weird things to your body and somehow that's good. It's not, but anyway, that's my prediction. Why don't you give yours? Well,

I'm disappointed because for the first time in my life, I found the Pat McAfee show. I did not know where it was aired, how to get to it. Was it like a subscription thing i didn't know and i clicked the link and i watched aaron rogers live thinking i was gonna get the news as it was happening and then i heard about a pancha karma instead that's what it's called okay i've seen it written i had never yeah i i didn't know what he was saying until i saw it

like written on twitter and like okay that that that, that, that is the word. But, um, I, I get the sense that sort of his, I don't know the, as relaxed as he is right now. And as almost like kind of like Riley smiling on the Pat McAfee show, like, I'm not going to make a decision today. I'm going to make you wait. That tells me that he is gonna come back um so i i get the sense that he again sees that brady is not in the mix anymore in the nfc the nfc is barren of great quarterback play he may as well uh make a run at it but diana racine is talking about 50 million dollars how's that gonna work i mean the i'm sure you can pull it off somehow if you're Green Bay and Aaron Rodgers is the type that could perform with a bad roster. But it's going to be some serious gymnastics for the Packers to figure that out.

If I look at how crazy Tom Brady's contract was last year, Tom Brady's contract last year. Hold on. Pulling this up. It's only going to be 20 million this year against the cap. If he had come back, Tom Brady against the cap last year cost 2021, $10 million. Tom Brady made in cash $44 million. And there you have it. And there you have it. Like, was that a void years or was it like, we'll pay your trainer. How did that work? Yeah. Uh, looks like, um,

three void years is what it took for, for Brady to be able to do that. 23, 2023, 2024, 2025. The Tampa Bay bucks will be paying Tom Brady when he is no kidding, 48 years old or like paying for him on the cap.

They won't be paying him actually, but that's what they had to do it's very similar to the drew brees thing where it was just like 17 void years whatever man we could win a super bowl who cares a bobby bonilla deal yes they're paying him a million a year yes um last thing i promise what's your cleanse my cleanse is watching old football games and i I decided last night. So I went over to, to go to the gym, but there were just too many people there. I still, you know, I know that COVID is doing better lately. I feel good about that.

But like, still, there's a number of people in the gym that I just don't want to participate. So I decided to run. It was two degrees outside. And so I went for a three something mile run outside. And let me tell you, that's a cleanse. It takes a really long time to thaw, but it's a cleanse. So what is yours? Yeah.

You know, after a long, hard day of recording podcasts, shooting videos, recording on football. I don't know how you do it. I like to unwind in in the kitchen you know if i we've got so many ways to play music now we've got sort of a google home system so put on something from before 1980 and um you know get a couple pots boiling on the stove maybe a seltzer or a glass of wine that is uh like the half hour from five o'clock to 530 when I can do that. And the kids aren't home yet from daycare. That's a great half hour. That's a great half hour. And then they come home. My world crashes around me. But of course,

I get cleansed before that from all the work that you have me doing, Matthew, that put such stress in my life. I know. I'm kidding. Well, you know what? You got to push people to get greatness out of them. And that's clearly what's happening there's a bum phillips quote about that i bet probably uh well yeah no i won't insult you with the one about average player no good players to be great players there you go that's the one um but uh my wife does that too uh she'll put in the earbuds and listen to Taylor Swift or something and, you know, that kind of deal. So, all right,

well, this was fun. We have the combine coming up next week. We're going to have a couple of combine preview episodes coming up and I'm not, I'm not joking, Sam, this is not a joke. I will have a former long snapper on the show.

This is actually happening. There's a former college long snapper who now writes about the draft and podcasts about the draft that is going to come on and talk about the combine, but also long snapping. That's must listen. Have you ever heard a better tease in your life? No, I haven't. Is it over? Goodbye, everyone.