Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Brett Kollmann of "The Film Room" talks Lions, Packers and the only path to a Vikings Super Bowl

Episode Date: May 24, 2022

Matthew Coller and Brett Kollman of "The Film Room" play a game of "talk me into," which includes the Detroit Lions hype, Aaron Rodgers without Davante Adams, the Vikings making the right decision in the draft and the Vikings' path to a Super Bowl. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider, Matthew Collar here and returning to the show from the film room, YouTube's favorite football analyst, Brett Coleman. What is going on, Brett? How are you? Not bad. I'm enjoying the offseason. Somebody cruelly reminded me that we only have like 16 more weekends before every single one of them go back to being working. So I'm not quite ready for that.

So I'm going to take my next couple of months and be okay with having a Sunday, you know, out with the wife doing brunch, all that kind of stuff for now. Okay. You and I are in slightly different spaces there because I was just looking at the calendar today and thinking how it's two months till they even have a camp practice and looking at some of the football takes in my Twitter going like we need human beings on football fields to get past our May football takes, which are always by far the worst football takes is May football takes. Yeah, I like just got out of draft season, which is even busier for me than the normal season. And so I woke up last weekend or whatever weekend was like the weekend

following the draft. And like, I didn't have to work on a Saturday for the first time in since literally the previous July. And I was like, wow, this is kind of nice. This must be what normal people feel like.

It was awesome. I loved it. Yeah. Now it's maybe the same feeling for you although of course draft season busy for us as well but um when the vikings play on a thursday night and i get to watch football on a sunday i'm like i now i see why everybody likes this so much this is fantastic look at all these games on people are scoring touchdowns this is wonderful um so i i know the the feeling for you and it's a it's also a

time to have some fun and fun conversations so uh we are going to play the talk me into game and since you are coming just out of draft season here's how it works for anybody who hasn't heard it before is i force you to talk me into a football take then you force me to talk you into a football take even if we don't believe it we have to talk the other person into it and try to convince them. So just for example's sake, we'll start off. You have to talk me into the team that I am seeing and hearing, getting a ton of buzz for the off season, for being the overachiever of 2022, which is the Detroit Lions so I want you to start us off by talking me into

the 2022 Detroit Lions see that's actually not that hard for me because I am a Lions believer so this is a position that I actually hold they've had two really good drafts in a row. We could talk about the limitations of Jared Goff and I get that. But I also, I look at the rest of the team around Jared Goff. And when Jared Goff went to a Superbowl with LA, obviously Sean McVay was puppeteering that whole thing and kind of telling him what to do in the headset. But he also had a really good team around him that had phenomenal talent in the trenches on

both sides of the ball. Detroit has great talent in the trenches on both sides of the ball. Obviously, they don't have like an Aaron Donald type talent, but the offensive line, I think is just as talented, if not more talented than the one that took golf to the playoffs and to the Super Bowl that year. Their defensive line has been absolutely reloaded over the last two off seasons. They double dipped with Hutchinson and Paschal, which are two guys that I both had in the top 15 of my mock draft. And oh, by the way, they jumped up 20 picks, I think with the Vikings, ironically enough, to get Jameson Williams because the Vikings decided that they didn't really want to get

a whole lot of value for dropping down 20 picks in the first round but hey that's neither here nor there either way when you look at the Detroit Lions roster in the trenches you have a defensive line of Aiden Hutchinson, Aleem McNeil, Michael Brockers, Levi Onwuzirike is your rotational interior rusher you got Charles Harris who had a great season last year and also getting Pascal you have Romeo Acquara you have just waves upon waves upon waves of pass rushers here in addition to on the offensive line you've got Penny Sewell you got Big V you got Ragnow who's one of the best centers in the league. You got Jonah Jackson, who I thought had spurts of being a really good guard as a rookie.

You got Taylor Decker, who's a very solid left tackle. You have a great backfield with DeAndre Swift and Jamal Williams. You have a great tight end room, which just added James Mitchell, who's a great athlete, and TJ Hawkinson, who's a top five tight end. At receiver, you got DJ Chark bringing in over from Jacksonville to be a deep threat almoner ross state brown had a great rookie year jameson williams probably isn't going to play for the first half of the year but he's a potential elite deep threat once he gets healthy we can talk about jared goff just being okay but the roster around jared goff is way more than okay so again i'm not going to be as bold as to

predict, oh, they're going to push for a wild card, but they're also going to be a team that other people aren't really comfortable playing because of what their defense can do and because of their quick strike ability on offense. Yeah. I think that I am talked into this take, by the way, that it is altogether possible that the lions could finish second in the nfc north uh because just being the lions doesn't mean you have to be awful forever um you would have said that about the buffalo bills that the new orleans saints when i grew up were absolutely horrendous mike ditko was their coach they traded all their draft picks for ricky williams dann Danny Warfel played quarterback like things could change really quickly with poor NFL franchises and

taking this whole thing apart and reconstructing it through the draft and then developing and hitting on some players that's usually a model for all of a sudden a team goes worse to first and that's why everyone always has that discussion hey Hey, who's going to be worse to first? Because it almost always happens where somebody does go from the very bottom and up. And I was just taking a peek at some numbers with Jared Goff last oh, in October, somebody was great, but they started to play better football toward the end of the year under Dan Campbell. And we made fun of him so much for ankle biting or kneecap eating or whatever it was that he was trying to do last year in his opening press conference. But when you just try to like spot the team that has suddenly gathered a bunch of talent and might be a lot better. And that's why, like when we look at last year for the Vikings and go, Oh, well, you know, they did this last year. So they'll just carry that over and everything will be the same,

but circumstances change a lot. And I think that this is one of the biggest changes that they face in the NFC North is that Detroit is suddenly decent. I don't think you're just following the gambling mob who all of a sudden loves the Detroit Lions. Yeah, no, I don't know what the over-under is for them on the season. I think it's six and a half, which is why everybody likes them. I would take the over on that. I'm not going to lie. They're scrappy.

They're really scrappy. And they got unlucky last year. The Ravens had to literally set an NFL record field goal at the last minute with one of the, if not the best kicker we've ever seen, just to beat them. Like they're, they're scrappy. I think they could get more than more than six wins. I truly believe that. Now, what would you like me to talk you into?

This one might be, might be a little uh might be a little hard for a Vikings fan talk me into handing Jameson Williams and Christian Watson two division rivals for not a whole lot of value being a good thing for the Vikings okay see you have got this game down right away, like instantly. Let me start with the easier of the two. That's the trade with the Packers. Trading back with the Packers got the Vikings, I think, a ton of value. Like they got, what, 57 and 59 or something. And then they use that to trade up to take Andrew Booth. I think the Packers were reaching with Christian Watson and were desperately trading up, giving the Vikings two draft picks that are in the similar range of talent.

Now, using one of those picks on a guard would not be advisable. But in terms of the actual trade for what they got for draft picks for the Packers to move up to get Christian Watson, I thought that that was a pretty decent move. Also, the Packers were probably going to trade up with someone up to get Christian Watson. I thought that that was a pretty decent move. Also, the Packers were probably going to trade up with someone else to take Christian Watson anyway, so you might as well get their draft picks. That one, okay, fine. The Jamison Williams one is harder, but I'll try because I was more in favor of just drafting Jamison Williams and putting him with Justin Jefferson and Adam Thielen and feeling really good about yourself. But if I'm forced to talk you into it, one of the biggest issues for the Vikings over the last two years, if not the biggest has been their secondary. It has been an absolute horror show. They're

running out for shot Breland. They're running out McKenzie Alexander, and these guys are just getting smoked. They were hoping that old Patrick Peterson, which he mostly did, would come in and be a difference maker for their secondary. Harrison Smith's buddies have been like undrafted free agents or $2 million players. And so if you're bringing in Ed Donatel with one of the biggest goals to improve your defense, which was a major, major issue over the last two years, improving the secondary is pretty necessary. If we agree that passing the ball is the most important thing in the league, stopping the pass is the second most important thing.

And by trading down, they were able to get two players that will help them stop the pass. Lewis seen is a really good prospect. I mean, he's a six foot two safety runs a four, three. It's not like they went and drafted a long snapper, right mean, he's a six foot two safety runs a four three. It's not like they went and drafted a long snapper, right? They still got a very, very good prospect here. And Andrew Booth is, if he stays healthy, one of the bigger, maybe steals of someone that dropped down, but had first round talent. So you could see it from that perspective as being all right. You know, maybe their weapons won't be quite as good as they would have been with jamison williams however they are going to be able to stop the pass better probably right away

and then for the future i mean they've got nothing in the secondary for the future harrison smith is old cam dancil or someone we don't know if we can rely on or not they need people to be able to stop the pass and they got them by doing this. Did that work? I felt like you were more trying to convince yourself than convince me. No, I'm not convincing myself. I would have picked Jamison Williams. I mean, in the, in the draft SIM, which we all do a million draft Sims before my final draft SIM took Jamison Williams right there when they got to 12 and he was still there.

I thought Kevin O'Connell, welcome to Minnesota. You just got a freak show, uh, like the fastest receiver in the draft. And this guy's going to be great for you. And then they decided to move down. And so, no, I was not convinced on that. And you can also, anybody who's watched the Vikings can envision Jameson Williams going for 180 yards. It's not like first game they face each other. So, no, I'm playing the game as it is designed. So how did I do? I think you did okay.

I saw the words of a desperately hopeful man go through your brain and come out okay. So I think you did all right. I think you did all right. I'm convinced. I mean, I still, I'm in agreement that if I was Quezzy, I would have just taken Jameson Williams just on value. But if the goal was to fix the biggest problem on the roster, which was not being able to stop literally anything through the air,

I think you could do a lot worse than lewis seen at 32 plus you get the fifth year option and db is becoming increasingly expensive so there's that to take into account as well but overall you weren't really a fan of that dropping down 20 spots in the first round like was there nobody else that was offering more for arguably the best receiver prospect in the class like i i don't know it's just weird to me that they couldn't get more anywhere like especially from a division rival like maybe the clock was winding down they just wanted to take what they could get but like they couldn't shop the pick a little bit more and and get some like even before the draft, like usually GMs are talking to each other like days before the draft of like,

Hey, if our guy is there, they get a deal worked out ahead of time. Did they not do that? Like, did they not do any pre draft bidding process to drive up that price a little bit? It just seemed,

it seemed too cheap for the lions to do that with a division rival i don't know maybe that's just me no i mean if you look at recent history teams that have to move up that much which is kind of rare like even moving up 10 spots usually costs you a first rounder from the next year and i think that they pre-committed to if i had to guess i don't know this for sure but i think they committed to if derrick stingley jr drops they'll take them but if that if he doesn't then they're going to trade down like no matter what that that that was sort of a predetermined outcome and they were going to take whatever they could get for trading down and the other gms too like they know the new guy right like when you play poker and uh you know the guy at the table, maybe he's playing for the

first time and going to try to take advantage of them. And by some charts they didn't, but by usual NFL standards, they did. The way that I look at it though, is this all kind of comes down to the results. If Jamison Williams roasts you in the future, then you didn't win. Then that move was not good for you. If Jamison Williams roasts you in the future, then you didn't win. Then that move was not good for you. Okay, your task is to talk me into Aaron Rodgers falling off because he does not have Devontae Adams anymore. Talk me into the Green Bay Packers not being as good,

Aaron Rodgers not playing MVP level because he is without his security blanket. Give these people a taste. Yikes. Okay, that one's hard. All right, I got it. The Packers passing offense ran through Devontae Adams as a receiving threat, and one of the big reasons why it ran through Devontae Adams is because he and Aaron Rodgers had kind of a unique understanding among receiver slash quarterback combos of how to attack certain coverages. They could give each other a look pre-snap where if Devontae, you know, from a certain split was, you know, getting a certain amount of spacing or a certain leverage from a DB he could look at Aaron and Aaron would know exactly what route he was going to run because Devante knew

what everybody else was going to do as long as he didn't occupy the same space as those guys it's very similar to what Travis Kelsey and Pat Mahomes have in Kansas City where Kelsey can run literally whatever whatever route he wants to on any play as long as he doesn't interfere with everybody else and Pat knows just based on how Kelsey likes to attack certain things, Pat knows where he's going to be. And so they kind of make it up as they go along. Devante and Aaron do the same thing. So,

you know, even if let's say he's in a reduced split and he's not supposed to be running a go ball. If he gets pressed from like super heavy inside leverage, cause they're trying to stop a bullet splint, a bullet slant. And there's one safety deep. Devontae can look at Aaron and basically say like, hey, I'm gone.

I'm running a go, and Aaron will give it to him. And so I think not having that kind of weapon with that kind of chemistry with a quarterback who is notoriously reliant on chemistry. You look at his history with Randall Cobb. You look at his history with Jordy Nelson, Donald Driver, going way back in the day, like Aaron. Aaron does best with receivers where he knows how they're going to change routes in the middle of the play. There's a whole new cast and crew.

I think they still might have Cobb, but Cobb is still not what Cobb was. But in terms of like who, quote unquote, his best receivers are supposed to be, they don't have the chemistry yet. So I think that Christian Watson and Romeo dubs could be a very good combo for them in the future, but it might take a couple years for them and Aaron to learn each other. Just like it did for Devante Adams, by the way, Adams did not always used to be Adams. It took three years for him to get there.

So it might take three years for, for Watson and Dubs to get there too and by then Aaron's going to be 40 so I could see it I could see him falling off not because of physical ability or anything like that but just because chemistry and how that offense operates takes a while. And this is not a young quarterback anymore that might not have a while to give. I think you did an excellent job there. The question is, let's say that all of that is right.

How much will it matter in terms of their wind total and what Aaron Rogers is still able to do because even Aaron Rodgers 90% of him is what like still a top five quarterback in the league if he was the best player in the league last year then he's the sixth best player without Devante Adams and I think I saw and I know win-loss records could be goofy but I think I saw that he hadn't lost the game without Devante Adams when he had missed games because of injury. So it's not like when Adams isn't there that Aaron just curls up into a ball and cries and doesn't know what to do. And, you know, I also think that Matt Lafleur has done a really good job of setting up play

actions and easy throws for Aaron Rogers that maybe he didn't have before with McCarthy, where he was forced to just kind of do absolutely everything. So those easy open throws have been there much more often for him that mitigate some of this. But at the same time, I do think that they drop back offensively without having Devante Adams with somebody who can beat man coverage in any situation, any time that's really hard to stop. And like quarterbacks can only be as clutch as their open receivers, right. At the end of games and things like that. I don't know if Sammy Watkins is doing that for you, right. Chris, I mean, Christian Watson, it's not like they drafted Jamison Williams, the guy who was playing at Bama. They drafted a guy who was playing FCS.

That that's, I mean, that's a pretty big jump to have to make. It's just that in the division they're playing in against the competition they're going against, I have a tough time seeing it changing anything about who finishes at the top of the NFC North. But I think winning 13 games without Devontae Adams all year is going to be hard. Yeah, they're still going to win the division. I'll put it that way.

Like, they're still going to win the division. They're still going to win the division. I'll put it that way. Like they're still going to win the division. They're still going to make the playoffs. And it's funny because whether or not they're the first seed or the seventh seed, I think their chance of winning the Super Bowl is the exact same, because apparently whenever they get home field advantage in the playoffs, it doesn't even matter. Like, I almost think they're more dangerous as a wildcard team for whatever reason than they are as a as a home team. So all they need to do is

just win the division so they get like one home playoff game and then if they got to travel for the nfc championship game that might actually end up being better for them if if history is correct so or if they could just punt the ball and they can pump the ball without giving up a touchdown yeah yeah you you have to keep in mind that for Vikings fans, the Super Bowl is the game that the Packers lose. That's the trophy that Vikings fans get to hold up is the game that the Packers lose in the playoffs in terrible fashion. So that's the most banners they've gotten to raise in recent years.

What do you want from me? All right, I'm going to hurt you with this one. Okay. Go ahead. Talk me into the notion that firing Mike Zimmer was a mistake. Okay. Yeah. All right. I could do that. So Mike Zimmer had his shortcomings and boy, were they short when it comes to, when it comes to certain things, we all have strengths and weaknesses as people. Right. And so some of us are more extreme with those strengths and weaknesses. That's Mike Zimmer. Mike Zimmer's strength was scheming defense and coaching defense. And when a man with no pass rush can scheme 51 sacks because Daniil Hunter got hurt seven games through the

season. Everson Griffin was lost, I think after week 10 and there was nobody else to rush the passer. And yet they ended up with the second most sacks in the NFL. That is Mike Zimmer scheming things up. And well, Mike Zimmer may have frustrated those on the offensive side to the point where, you you know they were showing their frustration because he loves to run the football and he'll come out after every half saying we need to run the football more kirk cousins has been his best version of himself in minnesota like the best he's ever been has been the last three years under mike zimmer playing the offensive scheme with play actions bootlegs and outside

zones making everything as easy as it can be for Kirk and dialing up deeper passes and pushing Kirk to throw down the field that's been the best version of Kirk Cousins it is not at all a guarantee that Kevin O'Connell and his Ramsey offense with three wide receivers and all that comes in and just throws a couple of people in motion and is automatically better for Kirk Cousins. We saw an offensive coordinator in John D. Filippo show up here as someone who was talked about the next head coach in the league. This guy is brilliant. And then it did not work for Kirk Cousins to be more in command and have more put on his plate. Mike Zimmer understood the shortcomings of his quarterback

and how he needed to protect him from those issues. And so even though we look at Zimmer and say, oh, this guy screwed up their offense and everything else, over the last four years, or the last three years, they're 11th in points scored. It's not like they're 28th and they're bringing in Kevin O'Connell. So the bar is actually pretty high for coaching here for to beat for Kevin O'Connell. That is hard to say.

It was like a bad idea to move on because of how kind of toxic and ugly things had gotten. But the point being that what Kevin O'Connell has to overcome is someone who is a proven, very good NFL coach. And as we know, not everybody that you hire is going to be proven and good at their job. And I think throughout the season, there will be times where fans go like, oh yeah, maybe Zimmer was not the craziest person of all time with the way he was handling Kirk Cousins. There's your case case you did debate in high school didn't you no just just to take on an entirely different persona out of nowhere and believe it you believed every word yeah um i should go i should go into acting i i could be on netflix uh movies pretending to defend mike zimmer

no i i mean really though there's a lot of nuance with this, with this opinion, because I have a lot of respect for Mike Zimmer as a head coach, but I think that his shortcomings were so extreme that it was time to move on. But what, what is your, what is your take? What do you think of Kevin O'Connell as the Vikings head coach? I think it was necessary. You know, I think kind of the trend in the league is uh let's go hire uh an offensive head coach from the west coast coaching tree um you know somebody who can theoretically uh improve quarterback play not that kirk cousins is bad i think he's like a solid top 12 quarterback in the league. Like he's an upper third starting quarterback in the league. They want to see if they can get even more

out of the $11 billion they're paying him every year. So, you know, you go hire an offensive coach that comes from a background that has continuously produced good coaches that have elevated quarterbacks. I get the gamble, and like you said, the locker room had gotten to a point where it was not tenable to have Mike Zimmer there anymore as the head coach, and I think it worked for a long time. I think the locker room for a long time, he and them got along, and then I don't exactly know what caused that schism or when it happened but it happened and that's all that matters so they needed a new voice and might

as well go get one that you think can can make all of that money to Kirk Cousins worth it so I still think they need a couple more things on offense um like they have some young or they have some pieces at receiver beyond JJ and Thielen that I like but I I'm right there with you like I wanted another dude like Jameson Williams like somebody where it's like hey we're just staying in 11 personnel all day long you can't guard any of us. Like I wanted that kind of weapon. Um, you know, like I, I do think that offensive line depth, like the starting five is fine, but boy, if somebody gets hurt, I'm, I'm worried about it. Um, but overall, I think the Vikings offense should be at a minimum what it was before with the potential to be a lot better yeah i mean a lot better is one where i'm not sure i could go but better um at least maybe a little smarter a little more

efficient a little less run on second down i think is the word because there are some games where they didn't show up and there's some games where they went gangbusters and so like the average ended up being whatever points per game but if we could get it closer to where every game like you're scoring within four points of that average instead of like variations of 10 points on either side that's the goal here uh welcome to the kirk cousins experience always and forever though and and that's what's going to be interesting to watch is how kevin o'connell tries to manage those ups and downs i did an article about this about his like his qbrs and pff grades and how it's just a roller coaster like every year it's a roller coaster sometimes he's player of the month and sometimes he's in

chicago throwing for 86 yards or whatever it's like why does this happen um but maybe it's like my golf game where i have a couple holes where where I'm decent, a couple of holes where I'm not decent. Okay. So I want, I want you to talk me into Jalen Hurts as the long-term quarterback of the Philadelphia Eagles. And additionally, why the Vikings should be afraid of Jalen Hurts in week two. So this actually isn't that hard for me because I had Jalen Hurts as a first round prospect when he was coming out. I had him as QB three, I think in that class. And I had him, I had him going to the saints in round one of my mock draft that year. Cause I, I thought that he could have been Drew Brees's heir apparent. He ended up going to the Eagles

in the second round. And I was one of the few people that was like, I love that pick, because worst case, if Carson gets hurt again, you have another starting caliber quarterback, or actually really worst case, if Carson doesn't work out, which he was already kind of on the rocks that time, and then he didn't work out, again, you have a starting quarterback already on the roster. He came in in ironically beat the saints as a rookie on like no notice flashed some potential they still they still needed to surround him with a lot of stuff going into year two you know they got devonta smith they drafted uh atlanta dickerson and like it got better but they still needed more and so they attacked this offseason even harder going to get A.J. Brown you know you're drafting Kelsey's heir apparent and Juergens like they they really are going all

in on Jalen Hurts because they saw what I saw when he was at Oklahoma and that's a quarterback that got a bad rap because of his freshman year at Alabama, where he really was not a passer at all, but he progressively got better every year in college. I mean, every year in college, he got better. It wasn't like, you know, even Justin Herbert for as good as Herbert was, he plateaued in college and didn't get better until he got to the NFL. Jalen Hurts got better every year in college and then still got better in the NFL. So the fact that we're six years straight of seeing a better version of Jalen Hurts after every single summer, we still haven't seen his peak yet. And he's somebody who is clearly an extremely hard worker. He's a great leader, great kid, really hyper-mobile, super elusive,

doesn't have an elite arm but has a good arm, has gotten consistently more accurate as time has gone on. Keep in mind that when he was a backup at Alabama behind Tua, he would come in in the second half a lot and play a ton of cleanup to it. He played a lot of snaps that year. And he was one of the top three most accurate passers in all the college football that year goes to Oklahoma the next year again repeat performance as one of the top three most accurate quarterbacks in all college football goes to the NFL struggled a little bit with ball

placement at first but got better in year two and I think he's going to get even even better again in year three in addition to having A.J. Brown, Devonta Smith, tight ends, running backs, deep offensive line, potentially a much better offensive and defensive structure around him when you look at what they got on defense. There is no reason for me to believe that this quarterback, who for more than half a decade has done nothing but get better every single year, zero reason for me to believe that done nothing but get better every single year. Zero reason for me to believe that he won't get better again. And not only will just be a starting caliber quarterback, but will be a good starting caliber quarterback.

And one that I think Vikings fans should be worried about. Okay. I'm like 90% there on you. Because I also really liked Jalen Hurts coming out of college. And I remember advocating for the Vikings to pick him as someone to develop, to have their future quarterback after Kirk Cousins, because I think his character is very, very high. What I really liked in college was the way that he handled that backup situation. And if I'm not mistaken, came into, was it sec championship or national

championship? Right. And, uh, when Tua got hurt and won the game and was prepared to play and all that and the ways handled even being thrown in last year, um, I, I thought it was just impressive for a team that was supposed to be not good. And then he comes out and like you said, improves, plays better. And our last impression of a guy is almost always what we think of them. So like, oh, he didn't play well against Tampa Bay, so he must just be bad. But I think he will be good. But I also think that there's like five to seven quarterbacks who their supporting cast can kind of go up and down.

They'll still be great. And then everybody else who's good enough, it depends on supporting cast. This might be a top five supporting cast in the league when you factor the offensive line they were the best running game in the league by expected points added last year and then you are given aj brown to already go with the other weapons that you have i mean i i think that he's set up kind of to sit on a seat of gold there that maybe he's one of those guys that they eventually give a huge contract to because they win 13 games and then he disappoints just like Carson Wentz once

did but for this window while he's on his rookie contract making up I think 0.7 percent of their cap Kirk Cousins makes up I think 16 percent and Jalen Hurts makes up 0.6 and that that to me is exactly what you need to have a team that competes for a Super Bowl where you might not have one of those Patrick Mahomes or Aaron Rodgers level quarterbacks. I think that they have got that formula. So I agree with you on this. Well, that's how the Eagles won the Super Bowl in 2017. Carson Wentz was still in his rookie deal.

It was year two of his rookie deal. By comparison to what other quarterbacks are making at the time he was making nothing a lot nothing but damn close to nothing um and you know nick foals was a very economically viable backup and then they uh they didn't really pay him great backup money until after they won the super bowl as kind of a reward so like their total amount spent at the quarterback position i still think was like 23rd in the league that year in terms of like cap space allocated but because they weren't paying the quarterback a lot you know they had prime zackerts they had a defensive line that cost a metric ton of money um they had a really good offensive line and i think they just paid

lane johnson at that point um you know they they built the rest of the team because Wentz was cheap and Howie was like you know once we had to pay Carson the depth kind of fell off on this team let's kind of go back to doing what we were before which is cheap quarterback great roster and see if we can kind of recreate that magic will it happen again I mean probably not you look at the rest of the NFC like you got to get through Tampa you got to get through LA you get you got to get through the entire NFC West you got to get through an NFC North that I think is better than people give credit for it probably won't happen again but I would be stunned if they're bad I would be absolutely stunned it would not surprise me either if they straight up just won the division

instead of Dallas, who lost kind of some key pieces in the offseason and still has Mike McCarthy as their head coach. Okay, final one. This is where you ramp the difficulty up to the most challenging. So that's what I want you to give me, the most difficult talk me into that you can come up with, and then I've got one for you to end. Talk me into Dalvin Cook being the best running back in franchise history okay all right that's pretty hard that's pretty hard uh right let's see where would he rank right now i mean you have obviously adrian peterson far and away number one i think chuck foreman

is right there with dalvin cook um then they had you know some other guys terry allen was pretty good he came up on the show for some reason the other day i think what what delvin cook would need to do to be considered the best running back in vikings history because he's had some great great seasons is there's been a little bit of buzz about throwing him the football more often which which I'm dubious about. I think it's kind of going to be the same. But, you know, Delvin Cook tweeted out a video of him catching a pass. So everyone's like, oh, is he going to be a receiver now?

Like, no, no, he's not. But if Delvin Cook were to become kind of what Todd Gurley was for the Rams for that brief moment where he was catching 75 passes, 80 passes. Then the biggest criticism of Adrian Peterson throughout his illustrious career as a Viking was that he didn't catch passes and he fumbled a lot. Delvin kind of fumbles a lot too, but it was so one dimensional with Adrian Peterson that if he was not running a 75-yard touchdown, he was not doing anything. And if Delvin Cook had one of those crazy seasons where he caught 80, 90 passes, stayed

healthy for the full year, went for 1,500 yards rushing, he would be talked about as more complete than Adrian Peterson, which I think he borders on that already, but he hasn't really been used in a super receiving role. If that were to happen and it had to happen over say three years with Kevin O'Connell, it can't just be one season, but if it was over a three year period, then maybe he would be considered to be a better all around player than Adrian Peterson. That's the best I could do. Adrian's one of the greatest of all time. That's the best I could do. The man went for a 2,000-yard season after an ACL injury.

This one was 10 out of 10 for challenging, but I gave it my best shot. You know, I could see it. There were a lot of qualifications. I could tell you didn't believe this one as much. No, I didn't. A for effort. A for effort.

Thank you. All right, your final challenge. Minnesota Vikings Super Bowl champion. Talk me into that, sir. Oh, and mine was hard? Oh, God. I mean, come on. I said 10 out of 10.

Okay. Putting together a game plan here. If you need to take a deep breath, it's fine. Usually I take, I got some Diet Dr. Pepper here. You need to take a deep breath. It's fine. Usually I take, I got some diet, Dr. Pepper.

I'll just take a sip. All right. Let's say that Detroit still is bitten by the horrific streak of bad luck and they lose a whole bunch of games snatching defeat from the jaws of victory which would not be out of character for them and they end up missing the playoffs the Packers are weakened throughout the year by the lack of chemistry between Rodgers and the receivers and it comes back to bite them in the playoffs yet again. And they get knocked out early. And what if Aaron Rodgers gets canceled online and then he can't play? No, that's the man's uncancellable.

As almost every rich person is. And that's a totally different point. Go ahead. The bears are not close. And, you know, the Vikings, I think, have a legit shot to make the playoffs. Let's say that they do their Vikings things. They win 11 games. They lose a couple that they absolutely shouldn't.

They win a couple that they absolutely shouldn't. They do Vikings things. They win 11. They're in as a wild card. Detroit's out. Green Bay's out. You're sitting the divisional round. I think you get one of these freakish Kirk Cousins games that comes out of nowhere.

You're knocking Tampa out in the divisional round. You're going to the NFC Championship game against the defending Super Bowl champion, L.A. Rams, on the road. Dalvin Cook, greatest running back in Vikings history. It's a game for the ages. You're going to the Super Bowl in Arizona, and you've got to go up against the Buffalo Bills. And, oh, my God, Josh Allen, all those receivers, that defense. You copy and paste the blitz-heavy defensive game plan

that Jacksonville Jaguars held Buffalo to six points due on. You blitz like absolute madmen all day. And Kirk Cousins wins it on a bomb to Justin Jefferson because there is not a DB on earth that can cover him. It seems completely improbable. Knocking out the GOAT, knocking out the defending Super Bowl champions, Aaron Rodgers getting knocked out in the wildcard round, you're beating possibly the best team in the league in the Super Bowl.

Completely implausible. And yet it happens because the only thing that the Vikings are good at as a franchise is doing things that make no goddamn sense. And this makes no goddamn sense. And so I think they're going to win the ring. They're going to do it. Tremendously well done. Tremendously well.

An applause, an A plus that was beautiful um and you know what we're gonna do is we're gonna clip this and put it on twitter brett coleman says vikings win the super bowl okay you put it out there hottest take we got folks here in may it's brett coleman from youtube uh no that was really well done and i think that this is what you laid out is what the vikings have been kind of hoping for each year that they've taken these long shots sticking with kirk cousins not doing a reset is just hey maybe if we just get in and then tom brady gets ill maybe we'll have a chance right like like that that's what that's what they've been hoping for and they've sort of set the standard at maybe we can just get in and then hope things

that go our go our way throughout the playoffs and to me that's not really a sound way to approach chasing a championship but they they have they have been close with this before with the case keenum year where everything did fall their way, and Aaron Rodgers got hurt that year. Yeah, I mean, I'm not convinced, of course. This is the Minnesota Vikings. They have never won a Super Bowl, so convincing Vikings fans that they're going to win it this year, especially with their roster, you know, it's a long shot.

But well done, sir. And I think that you have been one of our best uh participants maybe ever on the talk me into game so congratulations i i appreciate that it's it it's a lot harder than i thought it would be not gonna lie who do you real quick who do you think will actually win the super bowl like who's your team if I had to pick one right now, Buffalo. I know it seems chalky, but I mean, find a weakness.

Well, being from Buffalo and then moving to Minnesota to cover the two most tragic teams in sports. I can't buy that one either, man. I mean, 13 seconds wide, right? Music city miracle.

There's something about Josh Allen that just changes the equation for me because like he didn't he didn't lose that game against kansas city no not at all if josh allen gets the ball last and not patrick mahomes they probably win it last year and you know we can argue that overtime rules quote-unquote cost buffalo super bowl like realistically the defense cost buffalo super bowl but like if the overtime rules were different they probably still win that game because kc is not stopping josh allen there they're just not and so i i think it wasn't his fault that they lost. And I don't know. He's a difference maker.

He's an equation changer. And I think that this is a team where they are so good culture-wise that losing by 13 seconds would crush some franchise. Oh, yeah. The goal line pick crushed Seattle they never recovered from that I don't get the sense that the Bills are not going to recover from 13 seconds I think that's just going to make them stronger more determined and I think that those kind of mistakes are now just not going to happen anymore and when you take out those kind of mistakes and you take out you know like the random fluke losses to Jacksonville

like I don't want to predict an undefeated season, but if there was any team this year where I had to throw down 20 bucks of 17-0 and a Super Bowl, they're the ones that I'm doing the steak dinner bet on because I think they have enough talent to do it. You weren't even asked to talk me into it. You just tried anyway. No, really, Josh Allen is maybe the most unique player to ever play that position. talent to do it you weren't even asked to talk me into it you just tried anyway um no really uh

the the josh allen is maybe the most unique player to ever play that position i mean the the most impossible player to sack like that's the crazy thing to me is that you can't he gets sacked like 20 times a year and yet runs all over the place because he's so freaking big that no one could take him down it's uh it's really wild you know when i knew he was real by the way when is that when he beat you guys when he jumped over anthony bar yeah not just that when that whole game buffalo was not supposed to win that game at all like they were they were supposed to get absolutely steamrolled like that was when vikings were at the height of their powers in the zimmer era and he didn't even know what he was doing yet.

And he beat them. That was when I was like, okay, they got something here. Cause that, that was not supposed to happen. The funny thing is somebody who works for the bills that I know came up to me before the game. We're just chatting. Cause I had just moved to Minnesota maybe two years before that. And told me like, I was like, what's up with this?

You know, this team stinks. Like, what's your deal he's like no trust me everybody's saying like alan is going to be the thing at some point i was like i don't know man the guy's not accurate whatever else but but they they had a sense early on to the work ethic to improve his accuracy which is usually a thing we say a guy can't do and that's kind of been the difference confidence somebody who has command of the franchise sort of taking control of the whole city kind of thing, which is very rare.

So I don't think it's a bad pick at all. It's just that having grown up there and seen all the tragic things that happen, it's a pretty tough one to get me into. But you did a tremendous job in the talk me into, and you do an even better job on YouTube, the film room. Follow him on Twitter, at Brett Coleman,

which is with a K, O L L M a N. One of my favorite follows, one of my favorite guys to watch on YouTube. So appreciate you, man. I'm glad we could catch up. Thanks for coming on. Thanks for having me.

I appreciate it.