Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Broncos analysts talk about the trade-up race with Vikings

Episode Date: March 27, 2024

Matthew Coller talks with Cecil Lammey and Andrew Mason about the Broncos' mentality in trading up and then continues to talk with Vikings fans about the news from the owners meetings Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome into another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here once again in Orlando, Florida at the owners meetings and joining me from orange and blue today. They cover the Denver Broncos, Andrew Mason and Cecil Lammy. Cecil, you have the coolest hair in Orlando, I think, hands down. And so, you know, I see everybody going up to you looking for autographs, thinking that you may have played drums for Rush. But I'm just kidding, man. But no, nobody actually is. No, but I'm just kidding man uh but no nobody actually is uh no but i'm just uh kidding around with you but i've been on your show a bunch of times so now you're on my show

glad to have you i think we can start out in a really obvious place guys with defensive tackles no i'm just kidding uh does seem to be a good defensive tackle class but uh quarterback is obviously the place i want to know from you guys, we'll start with you, Cecil, just what is the discussion like in Denver surrounding the quarterback position as we go into this month between now and the draft where everybody's going to have Adam Schefter notifications on waiting to find out who's trading up and what's going to happen. So what has that discussion been like for you guys?

Yeah, when Mason and I jumped on the road this January to go to the Shrine game, one of the first things that we heard is like, hey, I think the Broncos are going to be very aggressive and moving up. And here we sit on March, whatever it is, Mace, like now we're at the owners' meetings and now the rest of the league is like, hey, everybody, Denver's going to be aggressive and move up. So, yeah, i believe that's the case it's something mace and i talk about every day and it's like all right find the guy

go get your guy whoever that guy is for sean payton uh once he falls in love i think he'll have the resources come hell or high water to get his guy okay andrew how much can the broncos give up because the vikings i think knowing that the Broncos want also quarterback went out and traded for the 23rd pick but how much let's see you've traded picks for Sean Payton Russell Wilson any other washups from other teams that maybe they've traded for how much seriously though how much of a package can they put together for someone like New England or Arizona well if you want something that involves a robust package in this year's draft that's where they're going to obviously come up short to the Minnesota

Vikings they would be willing to give up stuff in future years like I think if if Sean Payton fell in love and the package involved first round picks in 2025 and 2026. I think he'd do it. Sean Payton, not at the quarterback position, but other positions in New Orleans, very willing to sacrifice future draft capital to move up and get a prospect that he loves. It's just amplified now because of the quarterback position. But that's one of the things you kind of hear around here is that, okay, if Sean Payton really wants a player,

he's going to try to move heaven and earth to make that player happen. I think Jeff Duncan of New Orleans, down in New Orleans, said he's going to get that player or he's going to die trying if he's falling in love. And that's the sort of variable you have to watch out for. The other thing is also they do not want to trade Pat Sertan at cornerback, the two-time pro bowler but if they're in love with a quarterback prospect and it took sirtan to move up and

get that deal done i think they would very reluctantly and painfully include him in a trade but that's not something they want to do well that's what i was thinking is like who's got a card they can play that would make new england or arizona say okay all right because when you think about new england's position they obviously need a quarterback and if you're arizona and marvin harrison jr is there or whoever you like if it's malik neighbors i mean you want to pick your guy if you're those teams so someone's got to wow you and I think the Vikings getting this additional first round pick that wows you a little more and I think the argument that Kevin O'Connell is trying to make is hey there's some good defensive players to wink wink don't you want those Gerard Mayo like over in New England um how much should

they give up though I mean because we've been having this discussion about the Vikings where you're like, all right, if it's J.J. McCarthy, do you really want to give up two first round draft picks and then add another first round draft pick on top of it? Is it only worth it for the top three quarterbacks, in your opinion, having watched them? Or do you think that J.J. McCarthy would be worth going up to number four if it took that much for denver okay mace don't roll your eyes but it's all about fit in the nfl the dirty little secret is we all rolled our eyes i'm just gonna go to him for this day right right but the thing is like if that's sean payton's guy go get the guy i do not have a first round grade on jj mccarthy

but i fully realize he could be a top five pick if someone thinks he's the right fit. And there's plenty of things to like about McCarthy. I really like his personality. I like the fact that he's a winner and his accuracy and the fact that he can make full field reads. So he's out of my top four. He's number five for me, not only me, but Dane Brugler from the athletic, who I consider the greatest draft analyst there is. He's got a second round grade on McCarthy, but it's just about fit. Who's their guy? Find their guy. Get their guy. And then we'll see who that is for Sean Payton.

It makes sense to have a smart, accurate kid like a McCarthy out there kind of dealing in his offense. And it's one of the reasons why things fell apart with Russell Wilson because Russ can still play. He just can't play for Sean because Sean wants a very specific type of follow my lead I'll set you up and maybe that kid is McCarthy so when I was at the combine every person I ran into I was like how do you feel about McCarthyism because everybody had a different uh everybody had a different take every person now you and I are seeing kind of the same thing is where I have been more skeptical of him as a prospect and even

when you see a NFL network report he could could go number two overall. Like, wait a minute, is this really happening? I don't know about that because we've been fooled before, but are you more of a McCarthy believer? Is it worth it to get him for Denver? I think it's worth it to get him. If they've identified that he is the guy that can run Sean Payton's offense effectively, he's going to need a significant runway to be ready. I don't think you're plugging J.J. McCarthy in week one of his rookie season and saying we're going to sink or swim. I think that would probably do some damage to him.

I would even say that with Drake May as well. I think these are quarterbacks that they are at a stage in their development where sitting on that bench for a month or even up to a season might be the best thing for them. Whereas someone like Bo Nix has a lower ceiling but is closer to the finished product. If you bring in Bo Nix, if the Broncos ultimately draft Bo Nix, I think there's a very good chance Bo Nix is starting week one. So you mentioned that McCarthy is your QB5? All right, so what's your order then?

Yeah, the order is Jaden Daniels, number one. Very controversial. Me and Doug Farrar have Jaden as the number one quarterback. Caleb's generational talent, of course, but I like that. Lamar Jackson, he comes into the league as Lamar Jackson level with Jaden Daniels. Then Caleb. Then Drake May.

Surprise Mace didn't go on about Drake May. That's his guy. He loves him. And there's a lot to love with May there as well. Bo Nix is fourth. Bo Nix has first-round tools. We saw him at the Senior Bowl. And, you know, they need to change some practice structures.

Jim Nagy, if you're out there watching, change some of your practice structures, please. Have structured and ordered practices, because now at the Senior Bowl, it's just assistants who don't know how they're running practice. So I don't think it did Bo Nix any favors down there, but he's been a first-rounder for two years. I'm not going to knock him out for the hot guy, which is now McCarthy. And again, McCarthy, we saw him at the combine throwing. Some of his stuff on the outside takes a little longer to get there because his arm isn't a rocket.

You don't need a rocket to succeed in this league. But again, it's all about fit. Find your right guy. You and I are on the Drake May page. So here's how I look at it. Is Kevin O'Connell with a guy who has great touch on his deep ball? I just feel like it's a match made in heaven. Justin Jefferson.

This is something the Vikings can provide that Denver cannot. As good as Corlin Sutton is, that is not Justin Jefferson. So the weapons that they can give him. And I also think that O'Connell would love a development prospect to mold which might also work for jj mccarthy but you know uh are you so you're not a big bo nicks guy i what i'm all like fascinated by this class is that you can make your case pretty strong for so many guys like even michael pennix like hey if you show me his acls and his shoulder surgeries are okay look at that arm like it's a really good arm.

And with Bo Nix, that's a weird one for me because I feel like it's been all over the map with his draft stock. Where going into the years, like, oh, well, he's one of the guys to watch. And then he comes out and throws 45 touchdowns, gets sacked six times, throws three interceptions. Like, incredible numbers not turning the ball over. And also the former quarterbacks seem to love him like kurt warner watches him or chris sims or whoever and does their opinion mean a lot more than anybody else's at the end of the day like a little to me because i think that they can see things that maybe i'm not as good at seeing at the same time when you talk about that ceiling you go well but is there

good enough tools there to be great that i think that's my big question on bo nicks because the vikings might end up sticking at 11 and 23 and they might end up with someone like bo nicks yeah and the thing is with drake may when he's throwing that 35 yard out it's a thing of beauty right like that's the thing and that's the club in his bag that JJ doesn't have and that Bo Nix really doesn't have, and that's going to stress the defense. Whereas with Bo Nix, you know he's going for 85% of what is required. He's going to be on rhythm and on point. He's going to lead his receivers. He's going to set up yardage after the catch and again that

may have a real appeal for what Sean Payton wants to do schematically but that other 15 percent and we even saw it like toward the end with Drew Brees in New Orleans, that he could be on point, and yet they lacked that vertical strike element, and it made things a bit easier defensively. I think that's the thing you ask with Bo Nix, because we're not talking about somebody who's got a howitzer even coming into the league and generally speaking you don't develop a cannon getting to the NFL if you don't have one coming into the NFL so that's and I think that's why by and large you're going to see Bo Nix be the

fifth quarterback off the board is based on the arm talent argument. There's a little bit of like a faster Andy Dalton to Bo Nix to me, where, look, Andy Dalton won a lot of games when he was under the right circumstances and had A.J. Green and so forth. But was he ever going to take you to some level that where when things went wrong, he could make it right? And that's my thing with Drake May and also the way the Vikings have talked. They kind of keep coming back to that. That would also be Jaden Daniels.

It's also Caleb Williams when it's just, for example, fourth and eight in a playoff game and the guard gets beat. You need your quarterback not to check down. Vikings fans know what I'm talking about. Maybe you guys don't. But that was a Kirk Cousins thing in the playoffs against the Giants. They were facing fourth and eight season on the line. He checks down to the tight end season over because he he can't run away can't make a play can't

make it right and i think that that's what the vikings would really like now what you guys got any intel here on what's going on at the top of this draft with these teams because what i can't figure out is why new england would give the vikings their pick when they could pick drake may they could pick jayden daniels right or if the world shocks us and it's not you know not caleb williams it'll be caleb williams at number one yeah it's caleb williams for sure but do you think that they are actually willing to do it they're putting up neon signs they're saying we're open they're saying we're listening or are we going to be getting to you guys are doing your live podcast

i'm doing my live podcast on draft night and we're going to be getting to all right we're at pick 10 here it comes vikings and then broncos and here's the quarterbacks coming off the board uh or i mean do you think the giants and mccarthy stuff is real like what like sort sort through me what you think is real based on your guys discussions he's got some giant stuff so mace you get to the giant stuff from today and in the owners meetings i'll tell you what i know about new england they love jayden daniels this is what i've heard and i heard it in january so i usually like information then information in march and certainly april is the month of lies but the information that i'll run with is like okay they're focused on jayden daniels and well so is washington adam peters loves him so if washington takes jayden daniels they're gonna take jayden daniels then

new england will be open to trading back because they like michael pennix perhaps uh trading back at the end of the first round doing a teddy bridgewater thing right doing a lamar jackson thing and pennix can spin it my god can that guy spin it and a beautiful uh ugly delivery but uh beautiful where he can place it and how he gets it. They're just so fast with that howitzer. So, you know, some things to like about Pennix there. That's what New England could be focused on, and that's why they're open for business.

Potentially, once they figure out, y'all ain't getting Jaden Daniels, who you like. Big month for howitzers, by the way. The month of lies and us calling arms howitzers uh yeah uh so uh what what's uh what's the Giants intel I would just say that uh Brian Dayball was kind of clamming up whenever the subject of pro days and who they're interested in arose at his media availability this morning so I got the distinct sense they were very much in the quarterback conversation very much in the jj mccarthy conversation even though i mean this you know they have daniel

jones they even brought in drew lock who's going to start until daniel jones is ready but then if you throw a rookie in who you know who the heck knows, right? But, I mean, it's really wild that we're sitting here talking about the Giants in the quarterback market a year after they gave Daniel Jones that contract, which is like, all of a sudden, what were you thinking when you're giving Daniel Jones that deal? And here we are in March of 2024, know they're going on the pro day circuit and they're you know spending time with jj right it's you know life moves pretty fast oh look daniel jones uh owes the minnesota vikings half of that contract because he played them twice at the end

of that year and he had his two best games basically and then they paid him and also kirk cousins i think owes daniel jones because when it came to their negotiations i think that he was like i'm not being paid less than that guy no matter what and that just took everybody's number up so it's funny about it's like the whatever seven degrees or the uh butterfly effect of daniel jones that'll be my next book is the butterfly effect of daniel jones but be my next book, is the butterfly effect of Daniel Jones. But even leading us to the point of they might end up drafting J.J. McCarthy. So let's end on this. Would you guys prefer to see the Denver Broncos try to get above the New York Giants

to get J.J. McCarthy? If you couldn't get your hands on Drake May, couldn't get your hands on Jaden Daniels, but it was only for McCarthy, or would you prefer to wait? Because this is, of course, a debate we're having at the same time. So as you're arguing for Denver, you're arguing for the Vikings case as well.

Which would you prefer, stick and pick, or to move up for McCarthy? Luck favors the bold. I mean, what did Kansas City give up to move 16 spots for Pat Mahomes? Nobody remembers. What did Josh Allen, what did the Bills give up to move up five spots for Josh Allen? Nobody knows. Nobody cares. Find your guy, get your guy. Okay. And your take? Well, fortune favors the bold unless you're George Payton trading for Russell Wilson two years ago.

So it doesn't always work that way. Everyone remembers that the Broncos gave up two years of first-round picks, second-round picks, Noah Fant, Drew Locke, Shelby Harris to get Russell Wilson. So that being said, if you've identified the quarterback and you have a conviction, that's a term I usually come back to a conviction on that quarterback. You do it. The vision is the Sean Payton word. Like he likes to say, he likes to talk about what the vision is for a player.

If you ask him about the vision of any player, he'll give you like a long response. Like it's, it's just tease him up. He loves about that and if you have if he's got a vision for jj mccarthy i think they move up and do it and that's and that's why the the four spot minute for arizona is so interesting and it was a spot that uh sean payton brought up yesterday at his press conference. It's good to be Monti, as in Austin Fort, the Cardinals general manager. So, yeah, I mean, sometimes I think Payton said a little bit too much yesterday.

I don't know if he was smokescreening. Let's put it that way. I think some are like, oh, it's a smokescreen. But also when he started talking about J.J. McCarthy, it was, what, smoke screening let's put it that way i think some are like oh it's a smoke screen but also when he started talking about jj mccarthy it was what one minute into answering a question that you asked and then he started talking about oh well we worked out jj the day after his pro day like so it was it was sean payton kind of in full riff mode um i'm not sure that george payton the general manager wanted that little bit of information out there but it it is and it's what everyone's talking about now well no disrespect to

george payton a former uh viking executive but i think the um sean payton is the the guy pulling the strings there i would guess so uh let's uh end on this though what's your favorite viking bronco matchup moment i mean i know mine but if you guys want to bring this up you can oh wow uh i'll just throw mine out there is randy moss flipping it to mo williams is obviously i think uh number one but they've had their little uh scuffles throughout the years. Yes, that's from my buddy Nick Ferguson, who's out there. Like, yeah, that play, I will say maybe a non-Broncos moment, but I'll say the Minnesota miracle because that got Case Keenum to Denver

by his book, everybody, with the longest title ever. But I'm like, so why is there this Minnesota-Denver connection with quarterbacks, right? And the battle for Kirk Cousins and then Sam Darnold this offseason and now Mayer McCarthy with the Broncos and the Vikings. Like, I don't know, but I still blame y'all and I blame Minnesota. It was that rookie safety for New Orleans that misses the tackle. And the Minnesota miracle happens and then Case Keenum's playing in Denver.

Buy his book. Very expensive, Case Keenum, for that, what, one year that didn't work out? Also, Teddy Bridgewater, who is, would you say, Denver's best quarterback since Peyton Manning is actually Teddy Bridgewater? It's either Teddy or, believe it or not, Russell Wilson this past season. Although, of course, obviously Wilson was not a fit for Sean Peyton. Teddy had a good, solid year in 2021, and I think there were elements of the Broncos fan base

that did not embrace him because they wanted Drew Locke to be the quarterback. But Teddy was objectively better than Drew Locke, more accurate, made fewer mistakes. But to go back to your original thing, Viking-Bronco memories. Okay. Well, you have to talk about the Tim Tebow game in 2011. There was a lot there.

Number one, that was the game where the late Demarius Thomas really started to break out. Now, this is why I always say DT was not a product of Peyton Manning because he emerged in the back half of that season, starting with that Viking game. And I'll tell a real quick story. Rod Smith, great wide receiver for the Broncos, talked to the receivers in that room that week, and they were all down because nobody's getting the ball

because Tebow can't really throw. And Rod says to all of them, look, you've got to focus on maximizing what you can. Don't complain. Just focus on, okay, if I'm getting two targets, I'm going to make these the best I can. I'm going to be the best blocker I can. And they all took it to heart, especially Demarius. And so the first half of that game,

Broncos, they're trying to move. They can't do anything. And so at halftime, Mike McCoy, Adam Gase, John Fox, they basically say, okay, screw it. They're expecting Tebow to run. We're going to cross them up. We're going to come out in an I formation. We're going to throw over the top, and we're going to give Demarius a look. And Demarius exploded in that second half. But another precursor to the Super Bowl, Super Bowl XLVIII, Percy Harvin had a big game that day. And Percy Harvin, when they got to Super Bowl XLVIII, I'm like,

he was a problem when the Broncos went to the Metrodome. He's going to be a problem in the Super Bowl when he was. The other great Bronco-Viking memory that I have is 2015. Vikings come to Denver. Vikings, they win a division title that year. Have a chance for a comeback at the end. It was one of the great moments for that no-fly zone defense that carried the Broncos that year. T.J. Ward on a safety blitz, strip sack, fumble.

British Water loses it. Broncos recover and win the game. That was one of the signature moments, I thought, of that regular season. A very special regular season for the Broncos. A season that should have ended a lot better for the Vikings, but I don't really want to relive past painful memories for you. Well, there's hardly any to talk about with Vikings fans and their painful memories. But that was also the Stefan Diggs breakout game.

That was like the first game where it might have been even his first game active. And he, I think, roasted Aqib Tlaib a couple of times. And everybody went, who is this fifth round draft pick? And obviously, it's turned out to be one of the best receivers in the league. What is your guys' YouTube channel? Because I'm thinking that Vikings fans might want to just at least peek in on what is being said in youtube channel because i'm thinking that vikings fans might want to just at least peek in on what is being said in denver so where can they find you yeah denver sports just search orange blue today cecil lammy and andrew mason and we're on um

sometimes twice a day uh but usually at 4 p.m mountain time in the forgotten time zone but just check out youtube.com slash denver sports and orange blue today we appreciate you all. I have no idea what time it is right now in Mountain Time. No idea. No clue. I don't want to. I don't want to know. I don't even want to know. It's not it is it is an unrecognized time zone. Cecil and Andrew, great stuff. Great to meet you guys here in Orlando. And we'll maybe talk again after the draft and we know the results. We'll see what happens. everybody football hey u.s cellular customers i've got good news so don't hit that skip forward button just yet i'm talking about their special customer event us days what's us days it means exclusive offers just for their

customers just to say thanks like up to twelve hundred dollars to upgrade to any new phone no i didn't misread that that's up to twelve hundred dollars off they must really like you all us days at us cellular exclusive offers just for you just to say thanks right now us cellular customers get up to twelve hundred 1200 to upgrade to any new phone terms apply uh let's see the broncos are more desperate than us uh you know trading with the texans to acquire 23 seems a little desperate right i see what you mean that they just had this disaster with Russell Wilson. It feels like that organization hasn't been good in so long, but the Vikings don't have a lot of patients here either. They've watched every team in the NFC North run past them.

Even Chicago is in a better position than the Vikings are. So they need to play catch up here. They need to get back in this race with all these other teams doing things that usually lead to success. And I don't know any better than anyone else if Kyle Williams is going to be a success. But if he is, then I mean, you've got at least you could lock in two of the three teams to being really good. And maybe all three would end up being really good. That's something that Vikings have to factor in. Is Kyler Murray enough to take you over the top? Something like that? Probably not. You probably need to have a great complete team, which they are most of the way there because of the offense.

And I think because of the offensive coaching, they still need a lot to do though. And the left guard situation, I don't know what to tell you guys i i we might be looking at a blake brando versus dan feeney left guard situation and i do not like that that would be not a success for the offseason maybe dalton reisner will come back i didn't get that impression though um did you see bucky brooks last mock draft mccarthy going third to New England and may at 11 to the Vikings. Oh, we have may as being the dude who drops. That's it. That's an interesting spin. And this is where the Intel part of it is hard to figure out, right? Like, do we know the draft order is the mccarthy stuff real is drake may the one who actually drops and how much so if you have you guys ever watched rebel without a cause

in rebel without a cause if you've never seen it two fellas for no particular reason who are in high school and are just super angsty. They drive toward the edge of a cliff as fast as they can. And one of the guys, I think that maybe his coat gets caught in the door or something and goes over the edge or his foot gets stuck underneath the pedal. Whatever happens, James Dean jumps out of the car. The other guy goes flying over the edge. That's what number 11 drafting would be like, unless they really love Bo Nix and they're not telling anybody. And they, uh, are just think

like, we'll just stay quiet about it. We'll let everybody else say that we love McCarthy and we'll sit there at 11 and then just take our guy. But that would leave the door open to the Broncos. If they like him going up to seven with the Titans. They probably want more draft picks. I mean, where are the Giants in this? I mean, would they be the team taking him at sixth in that case? Or do you want to roll the dice and say, you know what? I think that either Drake May or J.J. McCarthy will drop to 11, and we're going to call everybody's bluff.

We're going to call the Giants' bluff. We're going to call the giants bluff. We're going to call the Broncos bluff on trading up. We're going to call Robert craft. That's where we started tonight. We're going to call Robert crafts bluff is, is that what they should do? Call everybody's bluff ride as fast as they can toward the edge and see who flies over. And maybe it's them. Uh. And maybe they end up taking, you know, Byron Murphy there instead of a quarterback. I don't know. I don't know. I wish, I mean, I both wish and don't wish

that draft night was tonight. Like if it was tonight, it'd be great because we could find out. But also I'm just having a great time talking about it. So I guess I'm not in a hurry. I'm not in a hurry. We've got time to have the most fun off season we've had in a long time. Uh, let's see. Do you think Kirk cousins has a standard typical 500 season in Atlanta? Thanks with a question mark, uh, is, is the question

mark in case I give a bad answer. So, uh, you know, no, I think he'll do better than that. He's got to play the whole season. Like once you get to a certain age, there could be other Achilles is you have two of them. There could be other injury issues that start to crop up. The guy has like been beat to a pulp because of bad guard play for a long time. So if, you know, we're talking about normal, healthy Kirk back to a hundred percent from the Achilles, which would be a great victory for all football players everywhere in modern science. If that ended up being the case, then I think that they're a 10 to 11 win team because their division is so unimpressive. And I saw today, Dave Canales, who is, if you didn't know the coach of the

Carolina Panthers, that must be a tough organization to root for. I got to tell you, if we were ranking all 32 teams, the most hopeless feeling Carolina is probably toward the top of that list, but he was talking about reworking Bryce Young's footwork. That sounds really bad. That sounds extremely very, very bad. If you're going into year two with an NFL quarterback talking about how to get him to do the right footwork, like what's happening here? What happened last year? Set this man back. So they're not much of a threat. I think that the Baker Bucks are a eight, nine, seven, and 10 waiting to happen. And I mean, we know what Derek Carr is. Derek Carr is going to get hurt again for half the games, or it's going to be banged up for most of the season and they're going to win eight or nine

games too. So I think that Kirk can come out on top of that division. I think they can host the playoff game. Hard to see them going for it farther than that. Jeremiah says, what's the average 40? I assume you mean like running 40 time. Oh, is this a rattler point of a Superbowl winning quarterbacks last 20 years? Well, when Tom Brady wins all the Superbowls, you know, also we don't do anything. This is like a show rule. We don't do anything based on Super Bowls because Brady and Mahomes won all of them. So I don't know. Is there a model there? Because those guys couldn't actually be more different.

And yet they won all the Super Bowls. I do know this, that Jalen Hurts was in the Super Bowl and he runs pretty fast. That's a big part of his game. But if this is a Spencer Rattler argument, I mean, look, Brock Purdy was in the Super Bowl. I think he actually might just be a really good quarterback. He had to run in some key spots. Almost not every quarterback who reaches the Super Bowl had to be a runner.

Matt Ryan was not a runner. He was also 6'4 and is one of the best pocket quarterbacks of the last two decades. So there's that same with like Eli Manning, uh, Phillip Rivers. These are pocket quarterbacks, but there's also been a lot of really successful scrambling and running quarterbacks. Uh, Lamar Jackson, uh, feel free. And, And Josh Allen, feel free to call them failures because they lose to my homes. I'm not going to MVP caliber players. So having mobility and speed, I don't know about you, but I don't think it's helped the Vikings at all to just have your quarterback sit there and someone beats the guard and you lose.

And this is something Casey's brought up and like, he's right that you have to be more than just a pocket quarterback. There has to be an answer when there's pressure. And I don't think Spencer Rattler has an answer. I think that almost everybody else does here. Now does Michael Penix's answer exist in his ability to get rid of the football quickly? Bo Nix though, is a scrambler. Even someone like Bo Nix could scramble. And we know that Caleb Williams, Drake May, Jaden Daniels, JJ McCarthy, they all have good speed. That's just how it's mostly going to be for the NFL going forward. It's mostly going to be playmaking. There's going to be playmaking quarterbacks every once in a while,

a pocket quarterback is going to show up. But if you actually watched Brock Purdy play, he was a playmaker. So yeah, look, the NFC championship, he had to scramble for a couple of huge plays. Like that's what you need. Daniel says, this is the best off season, he had to scramble for a couple huge plays. That's what you need. Daniel says, this is the best offseason we've had in years. I am here for the takes. Cherish these days.

That is great advice, Daniel, is that when we have things like this random Kyler Murray discussion pop up, lean into it, man. Lean into it because it's fun to talk football. Don't take it, man. Lean into it because it's fun to talk football. Don't take it too seriously. Some of you, I mean, most of you are great about the Kyler Murray discussion, giving your opinions, but some of you seem to be personally offended. Don't be personally offended. It's fun.

Alex says no to Kyler Murray because I want to build a defense in Flores' image. I think that's totally fair. I think that's totally fair. That is, it's going to still be hard, even if you restructure and even if you hack off $20 million off of a close to $50 million cap hit, which will put Kyler Murray much lower than some other starting quarterbacks. I'm sure Arizona is going to do this at some point in the future. They don't have to right now. That's why they're in a good spot. But the plan should still be the plan, right?

It should still be the plan, which is to draft the quarterback and build the complete team. Because now what we know is we know that Brian Flores is really good at his job and can take what you have. And if what you have is a five out of 10, then it's a six or a seven out of 10. If what you have, let's be honest about last year's roster. What did they finish like 12th in points against? What was that year's roster?

Maybe the 20th best. There's good players. I mean, there's playmakers and there's guys, you know, 16 and a half sacks from the Neil Hunter. there's good players. I mean, there's playmakers and there's guys, you know, 16 and a half sacks from the Neil Hunter. There's great players, but it had a lot of holes still. And it wasn't that different talent wise actually might've been worse talent

wise than what Ed Donatello had. And yet you're, you know, you're talking about a much better performance. So I agree with you that I would prefer to see them build a complete roster top to bottom. And if the quarterback is only a seven out of 10, that the team is going to make them into a nine out of 10. And that's what you want. What you want. This is, this is like what San Francisco has. This is the dream scenario. This is why you don't ever hear me criticize

Brock Purdy or go into some take about how he doesn't do this. He's not big enough, whatever. What you want is all the other fan bases to be saying that that team's quarterback. Yeah. He's overrated. He's all the team around him. You're like, thanks. Thank you. That's fantastic to hear because that means you're winning and that means your team is great that's what you want you want other fan bases you want Colin Cowherd or whatever other talking head on NFL live or whatever you want them to be saying I think he's just a product of what's around him because people think they sound really smart when they say that so like that's what you want is to be in that position uh every quarterback for the most part is a product of what's around him that's why what mahomes did this year was so wild and

brady a couple times but most of the time that's the case and you're trying to build that type of team which you can if you have all of that flexibility and look they have to hit on a few more draft picks and they've got to develop them as well. So there is that. Digit says our situation is fairly precarious. I guess we'll see if it's precarious. No trade partners at two, three, four, five. And we're looking at Michael Penix or Rattler. I mean, this is just my opinion. I just don't think Rattler's in this discussion at all. And I also really like Michael Penix. So if you're saying, well, this situation's terrible, they're getting Michael Penix. I'm like, I like Michael Penix. So I don't know. Maybe they don't, or maybe I know you're worried about knees and all that stuff. But

so when it comes to the trade partners, well, we just heard today,bert craft say we're open we've also heard number four monty awesome fort say we're open and we've heard number five los angeles say we're open so there seems to be trade partners it really comes down to trade price that is what we're talking about and where it becomes more precarious is deciding on what the price is and also what price is going to be other teams out. How can you make sure that Denver doesn't find a way Denver might have a little bit of an ace in the hole with Patrick Sertan. If they were to offer Patrick Sertan and then three firsts or two firsts in us, whatever they're lacking second round picks for Sean Payton, I think, but you don't have a Patrick Sertan to trade.

I don't think you want to give up Jordan Addison. So that's where it does become a little bit dicey. Uh, this, this is funny. I appreciate this. This talk is better than other podcasts talking about trading Justin Jefferson. Yeah, that was banned. That was banned on the show. Yeah.

I appreciate that. We banned that a while back. I've been, we've been through that and it's just, it's so clear about Justin Jefferson that this is the guy who will make the guy. And I said to someone the other night at this event in the ownership meetings, which was just random NFL people. I was talking to somebody, can't say who, and I was bringing up the point about Nick Mullins and Justin Jefferson. And because those games didn't matter, we don't appreciate them enough for what this man is capable of for elevating a quarterback. And I wouldn't trade that player for almost anything,

except for Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes. That's probably it. Maybe Burrow. I don't know. Stroud probably, but not much more than that because that player is so capable of elevating quarterbacks. And that's what I'm saying is what you want is to draft JJ McCarthy and then have people who make rankings on the internet in July, be like, I'm only putting him at my 14th best quarterback because of the team around him.

As you win 13 games, that's what you're looking for. Let everybody say you're overrated because you have a good team around you. That's what you're looking for. Let everybody say you're overrated because you have a good team around you. That's what you're looking to do. Or just have somebody who becomes Mahomes. But that's not always the most realistic thing. That is the rarest of the rare.

So the next best option, I should say, is for everybody to claim that your quarterback is overrated because of what's around him.'s what, that's what you hope for. Because that means you went somewhere and they're talking about you constantly and they're trying desperately to create a debate topic out of your quarterback. Cause you're relevant as opposed to Kirk cousins, where what was the debate? I mean, some people tried to make it into one,

but we all knew what it was at the end of the day. Alexander says the ceiling of this team in 2026 is a top five offense and top five defense with a rookie quarterback that hits. That is the path, my friend. That's what you're looking for. Now building a top five defense is hard because usually it takes defensive tackle. who's going to be a beast. And that is an obsession of mine as the defensive tackle position. I was just watching on my flight. So I got,

I got the YouTube version where you can download videos just for flights. So I could download a football life. You know, the movies, the documentaries of football life and i was watching joe green mean joe green it's really good so you should check it out there's some there's mean joe green killing the vikings a bunch of times in there but the defensive tackle position is is absolutely vital and that just watching those highlights and it still exists today when you

have that guy who can just break through the line right away there's nothing quarterbacks can do there's no stepping up there's no rolling out it's just like right up the middle they need you know i think a better cornerback group a little little more a lot more depth i think so but are they a year or two away with development with a couple more draft picks hitting and i think what brian flores gives you is is rational belief so there's like rational and irrational so there's like hope well the irrational belief is just hope right so it's like just hope versus versus belief uh where you have this hope that they could build a defense versus now after seeing the development and the players that Brian Flores brought in and seeing them succeed, then you have belief in it. So I think that's,

that's where that's changed and you can buy into that. I think we also know another thing is important to mention. I think we also know Brian Flores is not getting a head coach job. It's just not going to happen. Not with where they stand presently with him suing the NFL. And even if he does not win his lawsuit or drops his lawsuit against the NFL, he went on national television and talked about some things that I think would make owners very uncomfortable. And it would be a pretty tough sell. And we saw him get some interviews that were probably meant to just make sure that like he they didn't get accused again so they gave him some interviews two years ago no interviews this year and that is unfortunate for ryan flores because i think that he's qualified

capable very talented coach but their loss is your. And this is somebody who you don't have to talk yourself into. We don't have to play that game. Um, who cares about left guard for 2024, go buy one in 2025. I do. Um, because your quarterback might be inexperienced and I don't love the idea. Like Kenny Clark still plays for the Packers. So I don't love the idea of JJ McCarthy dropping straight back and finding somebody in his lap that he wouldn't have ever seen before at Michigan. A little concerned about that. I don't know what would have been a better option

when I look at those prices. Kevin Zeitler was only 6 million bucks, but he was going to Detroit the whole time. He was looking for a team that's on the cusp of being a potential Super Bowl contender. So he went there to try to probably aim for a Super Bowl. It wasn't going to come to Minnesota, even if they offered him more money.

The other guys went for too much money, and I'm sure the Vikings didn't have them evaluated that high, and they kind of got left holding the bag a little bit with this left guard situation. And it just, yeah, if you had more confidence in right guard, it would be like, all right, well, there's one position where there's a battle, but I don't have a whole lot of confidence in right guard either. And we've been through that. I know that you get a quarterback who's more mobile to run away. And this has been a long time thing with the previous quarterback is running away when there's pressure, say on fourth and eight from the right guard position,

but they shouldn't have to run away all the time. Yeah. That right. You don't want that. You don't want them constantly scrambling, constantly having hands in their face to try and throw the football. That's just when they're trying to throw the football. That's just something they're going to have to work through because I don't know what the better option was based on the prices. Still, it's not good. When we're grading the whole offseason, kind of all the different things that they did or didn't do, not finding that guy at left guard is still not a, not a great success. And maybe Reisner will

come back and he'll be good at least at pass protection. And you could kind of split the difference there and run to the right side. Um, I might actually be in support of that. Now I was not in support of that so much before, because I really would like to see them improve the running game. But when we're talking about, if it's a rookie quarterback starting, they need better pass protection. Folks, if you don't know what a VPN is, you might actually need one and not even realize it. If you already know the positives, you also might not be using the right product. In either case, you want to check out Surfshark. VPNs keep your information safe and anyone who tries to track what you're doing online will not be able to do so if you are using Surfshark. IP addresses, what you're searching, what games you're playing, or what shows you're streaming will belong to you and you only. Plus,

if you use a VPN, you can virtually travel the world from the comfort of your own home. And surf shark gives you over 100 countries to choose from. Once you change your virtual location, you'll be able to bypass censorship and restrictions. Find your favorites on Netflix, Hulu, Disney, and other streaming services, and even access new libraries to watch even more content.

Can't see a YouTube video because of your location. Use surf shark VPN. to watch even more content. Can't see a YouTube video because of your location? Use Surfshark VPN. Can't access that one website to buy limited edition sneakers? Use Surfshark VPN. Try Surfshark today totally risk-free with a 30-day money-back guarantee. Get Surfshark VPN at surfshark.deals

slash purpleinsider. Enter the promo code purpleinsider for three extra months for free. You heard me right. Three extra months for free. That is surf shark dot deals slash purple insider. At the time I, uh, Daniel says at the time, I felt we lost a great future GM and George Payton. How would you rate his time in Denver? I think that George Payton got a tough deal.

Now, number one, who among us would not have traded for Russell Wilson? Russell Wilson, before Denver traded for him, was great. He had that thumb injury. It kind of hurt him a little bit, but that was a random thing. I think he hit it on a helmet or something. But aside from that, the end of his 2021 season, he came back too early. But then when he got healed, he was the old Russell Wilson. He was great. I think he just hit a wall and that happens. It happened to Donovan McNabb. It's happened to many quarterbacks before one year. They're great. The next year they can't play anymore.

Randall Cunningham from 98 to 99. One year he's great. The next year he can't play at all. What the heck happened? But age is a funny thing. It doesn't just slowly notch down every single year. Sometimes you're cruising along totally fine, and then you fall off the edge of the earth.

And I don't know how George Payton would have known that that was going to happen. So I felt bad for him in that situation because 100 out of 100 of us would have traded for Russell Wilson for the Denver Broncos. He looked like the final piece for them. It looked like a team that was going to be really good. I think that what did they win, like seven or eight with Teddy Bridgewater? So, hey, if you can win eight with Teddy Bridgewater, then you can win 10, 11, 12 with Russell Wilson.

And it just, they hired the wrong coach. Wilson wasn't the same guy. And George Payton looks bad because his quarterback decision went bad. And that's just the reality for everybody there in the NFL. Like, look, his time in Denver is an F, of course. It's way, way, way worse than they ever thought. It's just that he did something very logical that didn't work. And then they bring in Sean Payton and he runs the organization. I mean, that's,

I don't think George Payton will be the GM for that long there because Sean Payton is the GM. Uh, Brady, uh, Bradley, sorry, says Denver will have to give up, uh, four firsts to overtake the Vikings to move up into the top four. What you think, what I think is that you might be right because if the Vikings gave up 11, well, this is where they have to put a player in there. Uh, if the Vikings gave up 11, 23 in their next year's first, that is a heck of a package to offer to anybody in the top four or five, depending on what they think they need to do. And maybe they're still trying to make those phone calls to number two. I don't know. But Denver, yeah. I mean, if they threw in their first four, that's not as good as having two firsts this year and first the following season. What Denver can give up is a player, one particular player who is

really, really good. They have one of the few true shutdown cornerbacks in the NFL, and they can trade that in order to try to get their quarterback. And New England has a long history of having these great corners. Stephon Gilmore, Aqib Talib before that, Ty Law, like it goes back. McCourty for a long time with these great corners. And they've always been connected to why they have a really good team. And they might look at that and say, well, that's better because that's a sure thing although i you have to pay them but they're not paying anybody right now because they stink uh connor williams for left guard yeah so connor williams is it's an interesting one because you know connor

williams is been banged up and that's a problem uh that he's been banged up and that's a problem, uh, that he's been banged up and he's got this knee injury. And I mean, that would make me nervous. A guard coming off of a knee injury. Uh, I'm really sorry that,

uh, the stream went robot voices on you guys. Sorry that happened. Uh, hopefully we're, we're okay now as far as the stream goes, uh, every once in a while, you know, can get a little wonky every once in a while. Um, Hopefully we're okay now as far as the stream goes. Every once in a while, you know,

can get a little wonky every once in a while. That is just the internet. Miles says, May Daniels, and I've come to an understanding if we took Michael Penix. I think with any one of these guys, you can talk yourself into it with any one of these guys, you can talk yourself into it with any one of these guys. I mean, because if it's Drake May, you could say, look at the arm, look at the playmaking. If it's Daniels, that's absolutely special when it comes to his running ability and his deep ball. And he also just was very safe with the football this year. And with Pennix,

you're probably getting him at number 23, which means you get to take a defensive tackle at number 11 or, or Bo Nix the same way. And look, Pennix led the nation in passing. So we're talking about if that's the case, if you lead the nation in passing, well, I mean, that, that guy, like you, you got to feel at least decent about that. Yeah. I know that there have been bad quarterbacks who have, but with that arm to be able to do that. So I've been, you know, it takes a team to a level they've never been before. So I've been sold on, on a lot of these ideas, because I think that with this year's draft class and I was asking people about it everywhere I go asking people about it. Um, and, uh, you know, like it's, I think that

the consensus is that it is a good draft class, that it isn't just sort of a smoke screen as we've talked about. Matt says my inner Vikings fan is already slightly preparing for the sting of seeing may go number two and the buzz mostly being around Daniels and JJ and Washington, especially, uh, or, uh, yeah, yeah. We all with the buzz being, well, that's, you know, Eric eager brought up a really good point is just that where Adam Peters comes from the GM now, uh, that like they usually don't leak stuff but also if we put like I mean all the pieces together they really look more like Jade and Daniels than they do Drake May I I don't know that that's true it's just kind of the way that they've put this together

and the fact that they brought in Mariota and the fact that they brought in Kingsbury, who's worked with the running and playmaking quarterback, that all kind of pushes it toward that direction. That's how I'm feeling right now. But is it very possible that on draft night, this is what the Vikings are waiting to find out is, okay, are you guys going to draft May or are you guys going to draft Daniels? And then we decide as the, you know, the, if, if we're the Vikings front office, then we decide what's going to happen next. Like, do we trade up or do we wait? Uh, miles says, uh, how excited do you think the organization will be to play the Falcons this year? The defense should be dialed in. Yeah. yeah you know there really isn't a great revenge angle

for Kirk because like what are you getting revenge on I was wondering this though uh myself somebody brought this up the reaction to Cousins coming back to US Bank Stadium it I think he gets a big cheer I don't think that the whole I don't think it's an aggressive enough city cities to boo the heck out of Kirk cousins, but maybe I don't really have a feeling about what that stadium is going to be like, because I think most people wanted to work with Kirk and generally like them overall.

And so they'll probably be like, yeah, all right, welcome back kind of thing rather than, you know, boo or whatever, you know. So it is true that Matthew Stafford was slow and won a Super Bowl. I haven't been scrolling fast enough. We're at a slow quarterbacks that won super bowls yeah yeah some slow slow quarterbacks did go to some super bowls that's true joe flacco that was a long time ago uh carrie collins was in a super bowl trent dilfer did anyone mention yeah i mean the game the game playmaking is the thing like joe is joe burrow the fastest

quarterback you've ever seen no but he's a great playmaker and you you have to be at least that so you have to be at least at least a great playmaker um so i was watching i uh i made a joke about ben franklin in the time zone and uh mike says ben franklin died long before time zones were created just saying now that would the movie i watched on the plane would be inaccurate if that's true uh because the movie I watched on the plane would be inaccurate if that's true. Uh, because the movie was, I was watching national treasure, Nicholas cage, not a good movie, but it's all they had.

So I just watched it. But, uh, in the movie, I think they claim that Ben Franklin was responsible for time zone. So I don't, but I, unlike the office,

I'm not like that, that Ben Franklin character or the guy who played Ben Franklin. Sue says, imagine if we were still talking about cousins and how to improve the team. Well, I bet about 300 of you wouldn't be here if that was the case. Based on my previous numbers while we were still battling through that. So welcome everybody to the quarterback talk and the most fun off season

we've had in a long time. Glad we have an awesome off season like now with all the speculations. Yeah, that's a, it's just a, a big part fundamentally of like football and what it is is and what i like about it is that football fans in general are so informed so knowledgeable about the league the teams and not like there are baseball fans who are but generally speaking if i asked what the what the Arizona diamondbacks need for their lineup, none of us would have any idea because who cares? But if I ask you what the Arizona Cardinals need, you'd know, because everybody pays attention to the NFL and everybody can have an opinion.

We all watched college football. We've all watched the highlight reels. We've all looked at the salary cap. We've all listened to the coach talk at the podium and listened to the analysts and read the articles and everything else. And so when everybody in the room here, when all of you folks in the room can all have an informed opinion or a very high percentage of you makes for some really, really good discussion, I think. And that's what we're having here when you have such a great topic like, you know, potential quarterback. Let's see. Digit says, I suspect time zones would have become relevant with the advent of the telegraph. Okay somebody uh who knows history is gonna have to tell us more about time zones and telegraphs okay here we go time zones were created in november 1883 why why were they created was it the telegraph that's a great question just lost a a thousand viewers, by the way, just all tuned out. And we started talking about this. Christian says National Treasure was a treasure for me growing up. I think I've seen the movie 20 times. Sorry, I said it wasn't that great. I don't think it's going to win any Academy Awards. Now we're into National Treasure takes. it was inaccurate but great icon eye candy it

for an airplane movie i have different levels of things like i do with sports so a couple of times i foolishly watched like academy award-winning movies on planes and i felt like such a dope why did i do that it's like edited to fit on the little screen. What am I? So I was sitting in the, uh, the exit row where you can't close, or at least I couldn't close the window. So I'm only seeing like two thirds of it because there's a reflection in the glare. What am I doing? So I try to find something that's kind of fun, kind of entertaining. But if I'm like looking around at stuff, if I'm interrupted by, you know, do you want a drink or a snack or whatever, then I'm not going to be bothered because sometimes I would

get like really intense into this. And then I'd be like, wait, what am I doing? There's too many distractions. There's kids on this plane coming from Disneyland. Like, so I'll watch National treasure. And it was, it was fun. It's not gonna win any Academy awards, but it was fun. So there's my, as a constant traveler, there's my philosophy. I agree with this, Randy. I think the revenge angle is Zimmer versus Kirk. Yeah, because nobody has made any bones about it, about how those guys feel about each other.

It ain't good. And everybody knows it. Everybody. It was not some secret. See, that's circling back to the Kyler Murray stuff. It's all like innuendo. And you can't figure out if they were just blaming him or what for their own ineptitude, because there's no smoking gun there. There's no like very clear and obvious what it was you're talking about as well. Is he the right leader? Is he whatever? And while there are truth to all rumors, I am like skeptical about that a little bit more because nobody loves anything more than NFL people in the blame game. So, so I, so I hesitate with something like that, but when it comes to Zimmer

and cousins, no love lost between those two, that's my revenge game. That's the one where I'm hoping that that's on national TV. So I can get home from whatever Vikings game I'm covering and turn on Kirk versus Zimmer. That is put it on the marquee for me, not Kirk versus the Vikings. Kirk versus the Vikings is like, okay, I guess so. But they like him. Like, is that what kind of rivalry is fun if they like him? Oh yeah. Kevin O'Connell is like his best buddy. Like, oh, well, okay. Yeah. I mean, if Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier were like friends, that wouldn't have been as fun. Right. So, uh, Alexander says, uh, I'm getting my hopes up for Drake may not going to lie.

I created him on man and won the super bowl as a rookie, a rookies usually don't win the super bowl. How dare you do something on a video game that is historically inaccurate. Although maybe, uh, he could have taken him to the next level. No, but the may point is so long as Robert craft is out there saying we're open. And so is the possibility of Drake may not being number three or two, which does exist. And there's rumors on that as well, that it's possible. And it's also, in my opinion, the best fit. So if we're doing like percentages for Drake may, I'm not going to give it 70% that he's the Vikings quarterback, but maybe it's 25.

I'll have to do a pie chart off the world, but if I'm doing a pie chart, I'm not doing off the top for quarterbacks. That'll be a whole episode. I'll do the pie chart for a whole episode. Uh, Anthony says, uh, no matter who we get as our next quarterback, Kevin O'Connell better finally figure out the run game. Yes. To give our offense more balance. I don't want to see any quarterback dropping back 40, 55, 45 to 50 times a game. That I believe is what Mr. Aaron Jones is here to do. That Aaron Jones is here to make sure that they are not dropping back 45 times a game and not having a running game.

That's, that's his job. And it's also to pass protect as well. That's important. And catch the ball. That, that was one job. And it's also to pass protect as well. That's important and catch the ball. That, that was one thing last year about Alexander Madison. It totally shocked me that he just did not catch the ball this year. And in previous years he did. I don't know what happened there. That was that in my opinion was him putting too much pressure on himself. Aaron Jones does not put too much pressure on himself. The dude's a star. He's going to catch the ball when you throw it to him. Madison, how many first downs did they lose? Cause Madison dropped balls and Osborne

dropped balls. So it's not just the running game, but the past past protection and the screen game. Uh, Dennis has all six quarterbacks go in the first round Knicks at 12 and Pennix to the Raiders. Yeah, that is, I mean, in the realm of possibility, if we're looking at all the scenarios, yeah, that is a one potential scenario. Yeah. Um, that that could happen. That would be pretty crazy. I think there's going to be one guy that the league doesn't love that we've talked about. There's always one, right? And there's never been more than five in the first round. I guess there could be this year, but that would make for what a league shifting draft that would be if there are six quarterbacks. I mean, that's why

when we're talking about how exciting it is, it's actually a topic of discussion, how exciting it is, because there is that potential for there to be more quarterbacks taken than there's ever been before. Uh, heat grim says, are you a strat guy or less Paul guy or something else like PRS? Uh, this is a guitar question. It comes up every once in a while. Uh, so I have, I have a bunch of different guitars. I don't have a Les Paul though. So I'm not like those people are really into it. So are the PRS people, the PRS people are obsessed with PRS. I don't have one of those. I have a couple of Yamahas that I think are underrated, a Schecter super strat style that I've been playing quite a bit. I have a telecaster and I have a Kramer that has the hockey stick that I bought after Eddie Van Halen passed away.

So I got a bunch of them. They're all types of different styles and stuff, but I don't have a Les Paul. Maybe I need to get one. Los Lobos. I worry that if we're unable to trade up, we might not be able to wait until the 23rd pick. Yeah. So that is something that I was thinking about the other day. What do they do? If they can't trade up, but they get to number 11 and the number one defensive player in the draft is on the board. This would be like picking number one. If there weren't all these quarterbacks and receivers and it's, I don't know who it is. Dallas Turner. Let's just say it's Dallas Turner. How do you not take Dallas Turner?

If you think that Bo Nix or Michael Penix could get there and I, that would be hard not to do right. But they could also move up from 23 and you do have to worry about the Broncos and you do have to worry about the Raiders. As you mentioned, the Raiders are in position to draft quarterback. That's what makes it tough is that like the Raiders are a team that should so obviously be picking a quarterback. How do you end up getting all the way to where the Vikings would be picking at 23? And there's nobody to really,

there's no way to trade up with. So if you want to pick at 11, it's not like you can trade up to 12 because 12 could be taking a quarterback as well, but maybe just throw out crazy stuff. Like maybe the Broncos already traded up. Like, I don't know.

You probably just have to take the guy at 11, even if you like a defensive player more. Train schedules, railroads. Oh, that's why I didn't know that. I didn't. I also didn't know that a lot of you really liked National Treasure. Okay. It was very hot for a summer. Telegraph first, then railroads talking about time zones.

The Eastern time kills me every time I go out there. It's harder than West Coast for me. I feel like more jet lag when I come back from Eastern. 1883 Union Pacific Railway is from bench two 95. And yes, baby telegraph was a part of it, but primarily the union Pacific railway. Okay.

So why though? Like what, like what does the railway have to do with time zones? I don't really get it. Um, national treasure and day after tomorrow. I've seen too many times i've seen day after tomorrow outside of my window uh no it was a good movie i saw that in the theater when it came out

tony says not too stressed about quarterback finally believe in the people making the decisions this this yes this this right here this right here the way that they've gone from point a to point b has been so direct like the trains you might say like a union pacific train that they have not had bizarre off ramps they haven't done strange things that didn't make sense even when they signed someone like marcus davenport like it made sense but it didn't make sense. Even when they signed someone like Marcus Davenport, like it made sense, but it didn't work, but you could get it. It was not a big commitment. It wasn't a huge dollar figure.

It was like short-term let's take a shot. See if he could go back to 2021. He didn't do it. That's life. But there's, there hasn't been anything along the way outside of that 2022 draft, which was just their first just starting out but as far as the whole path goes there's not a lot you can look at and say well that made no sense there were a lot of things with the end of spielman and zimmer where

it made no sense so you start to believe in their decision-making prospect. I'm getting railroaded. That's very funny. You start to believe in their decision-making process when the decisions make sense and we can talk through them logically and we can break them down into, all right, here's what they were thinking when they decided to trade for 23, when they decided to move on from Delvin cook, when they decided to, you know, whatever, let Daniel Hunter go sign Jonathan Grenard. It doesn't mean everything will work. It just means it all fits together.

And that makes you feel more confident in what they're going to do next. I don't know how much really weighs the odds though, because a lot of it is just hoping and praying. But with Kevin O'Connell, one thing that I think we can project is he's going to pick somebody who he can communicate well with and feels like he sees the same things. So in these draft meetings, putting kind of the headset on almost like this is like O'Connell seeing through your eyes. And if you can get on the same page with that, you can have success. Even if the guy has some shortcomings, Thor says, uh, speaking of revenge, any chance Harbaugh won't trade with the Vikings. Oh yeah. Jim Harbaugh, petty. There's definitely a chance of that. There's definitely a chance of that. Uh, I, yeah, I'd be surprised if they did,

but he's not the GM, but we know he's the GM. So yeah, I think that there might be a bit of a grudge there. No guarantees. Maybe, maybe he's not that, maybe he's not a grudge holder. I don't know. Jim Harbaugh is a hard guy to pin down. Right. Does anybody feel like they know Jim Harbaugh? I i don't i would just think that he's so competitive that he'd be like i'm not trading with the team that didn't hire me uh let's see what about bob says matt were you there for the kirk extension press conference i've i've been there for every press conference man since 2016 i i could count on one hand the press conferences i haven't gone to so yeah the the kirk the kirk first the do you mean extension or you mean the the first contract

he signed because this has been a long joke between us writers is when they signed kirk to his initial contract and zimmer came up to the podium and he talked about how good Kirk was at running bootlegs. And we just like that's the best he could come up with is that he just like he was clearly not for that decision that. Like he never wanted them to pay the quarterback all the money and then loses defensive players. Blowfish says Zimmer doesn't hate Kirk. He hates the fact Spielman forced the vast contract on his team. I don't know about that. I just, I don't think, I don't think that was a good relationship.

I don't think that was a good relationship at all. Okay. I know that wasn't a good relationship. I know that wasn't a good relationship i know that wasn't a good relationship uh kirk was not zimmer's type of guy zimmer's type of person was much more sam bradford teddy bridgewater sort of these natural leaders like sam br Bradford had this, this cockiness about him, this confidence about him that even though he hadn't turned out to be the number one pick that people thought he still felt that he was that guy. And he led like that. Once he got an opportunity to do so, once he went through that 2016 season, that was such a whirlwind. But when he got to 2017 and he went through that

training camp that I brought up a number of times on the show, but you really saw him take command of that team. And Cousins didn't naturally do that. And I think needed some pushing from his coach that he didn't get. And of course, Teddy was one of the greatest leaders I've ever been around. And just so natural the way that he makes people around him better, the way he connects with people. That's a real thing. I've written articles about it. I've talked to players about it, coaches, everybody.

And I think Zimmer, that really mattered to Zimmer, the way that Teddy just said, like, this is my team. And that Kirk was, he came out and said that he felt like it wasn't his team when he got there because there were other leaders. And I think that drove someone like Zimmer crazy so the contract the players on defense they lost all that stuff but I also think just personality conflict there are quarterbacks who get along with Zimmer Kirk was not one of them and then when the big mistake was not getting Kirk because you didn't know that when you got him, the big mistake was not moving on. When you realize that wasn't going to work. That's where it was the big mistake. Um,

let's see. Uh, I, uh, I'm not, I'm not a hundred percent sure how to say your name, uh, says, uh, at first I thought Casey was really bad. This is why I told you, by the way, and I'll get to the rest of the comment in a second. This is why I was saying throughout the season, we have to give it time. We just have to give it time. We don't like to give things time. We don't like to give the Justin Jefferson time.

People want to talk about trading him. We don't like to let things play out. We like to overreact. And the same thing might go for, they haven't traded up yet. And we'll see. So my thing was, there's been good, there's been bad been bad there's an idea here let's see if they execute it now that they've executed it looks pretty good which i think is what you're saying so is says

uh at first i thought uh quacey was really bad now i see he drew the line in the sand and cut overpriced uh underproducing players now we'll get to see how he is on drafting. Drafting is the inexact science of all time in exact sciences. The quarterback pick is going to be a Kevin O'Connell Wilfs Kwesi triumvirate pick, but it's really, I mean, really much more Kevin O'Connell, but it's going to be how they handle the situation with the trade-ups also goes into Casey as well. This is for me, this is a, it's a full franchise leadership pick for the quarterback. Now, can they find guys that can be developed? Because we haven't seen a lot of that yet. Ty Chandler is probably the best we've seen that last year though. I mean, we saw Addison and we saw Ivan Pace Jr.

who counts as part of the draft class. I don't know, people don't like that. But when you get to undrafted free agency, you have to convince that player to sign with you and you have to invest the money to get them to do that. And they invested more money in Ivan Pace Jr. than I've ever seen them before for an undrafted free agent. So you have to make that move in the draft and make that work. So you get credit for that, for the undrafted free agent, the same way that like, look, Rick gets credit for Adam Thielen, you know, like Adam Thielen, they found him, they gave him a chance and he turned out to be great. So they get credit for that. You get credit for your undrafted free agent. So they've, and it's similar to other stuff. There's been some good,

some bad in the draft. Makai Blackman doesn't get enough attention. He was one of the top graded PFF. Yeah. He got Moss that one time, but he was one of the top PFF graded cornerbacks among rookies last year for how much he played. And so, you know, they may have hit on three players from last year with, uh, Ivan pace and then Blackman and Jordan Addison. That's good. We're just going to need a bigger sample though. That that's the thing. We're just going to need a bigger sample for drafting to try to figure out like how they go about it. And I, and, and same with anything else. I want it to be a logical, logical process. That's, that's all I'm looking for here because sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. 2022 was not a logical process to me. Drafting a safety, drafting a guard like these,

uh, the, that was not good positional value. I think, uh, reaching big time on the guard, the safety safeties are very much like circumstantial based on how what's in front of them, what's with them, like what they're asked to do, stuff like that. Uh, you don't watch movies on a plane. You like to read a good book about football any ideas well that sounds like promotion time to say football is a numbers game the book that i wrote is a great choice thanks for asking that you guys are hilarious uh matt says feels like you have to

take a shot on elite traits and top 10 upside that's may to a t daniels has elite traits but frame uh yeah i mean his his the amount of times he gets i'm not sure what you mean by p pts rate uh but the amount of times that he gets like clobbered is a potential issue. I still like Daniels. I just think who knew Matthew Van Halen? Look, someday, someday in the summer, I'll bring the guitars down here and we'll shred it up. I can play a lot of Van Halen. I've been playing since I was like 12. So I can do a lot of things on that.

Let's see. Digits wants to take the defensive pick and then quarterback at 23 but you have to be concerned that your quarterback might not be there at 23 and that's where that's where you're worried about it ideally ideally oh pressure to sacrate that's what it was yeah okay yeah yeah daniels has the very concerning pressure to sacrate. If you were to live in an ideal world in a magic land that you could just, you know, twiddle your fingers and you get everything you want, then you would get Drake May at 11. And then at 23, you get like Johnny Newton from Illinois and, or Byron Murphy.

And then you feel like a God like that. Then you win the whole draft. Like that's what, that's what you would ideally want. And you know, whether that's possible, I'm not sure to get the quarterback there, but I don't think you could take the defensive player at 11 and risk all the quarterbacks being off the board or not getting anyone that you even like. All right. Couple more minutes. I've been up since six o'clock Eastern guys. Look at all this football talk. How much fun is this? Andrew says, imagine the Vikings trade up to five, then again to three and the Giants trade to four.

And this being, so it would go Bears, Commanders, Vikings, Giants, and it would go Williams, Daniels to the Vikings, May to the Giants, maybe flip those for me. And then, or, oh, I'm sorry. I'm reading this wrong so daniels to the commanders okay sorry you meant williams to the bears commanders take daniels vikings take may right then mccarthy goes to the patriots yeah i mean it's not crazy because that also is part of the

potential hold up right if the patriots want to move, do they want to move back as far as 11 or would they be wanting to also go back up? So back and then back up, which is what Miami did. Um, and there's so many moving parts to this and that's what it's exactly what, um, who was saying this, uh, Kevin O'Connell just said, there's a lot of layers. There's definitely a lot of layers. Frank says he's leaning JJ McCarthy over May if Williams and Daniels are off the board, but having McCown on the staff and the ability to let these guys sit for a year, they could roll with either of the young guys. Well, McCown will have the intel on Drake May. Like, is he the type of guy that they want or not?

So, now we're all in the guitar stuff. I play a mean dime bag. You mean dime bag Daryl, domination solo. Look, I can shred the thing. I can shred the thing. I can play a little dime bag Daryl, a little Cemetery Gates for you. I can do that so anyway uh let me answer two let's see one or two more let me answer this one

um randall says don't drake may and and mccarthy seem like the best fits for koz at this very moment the one guy that i would not count out is Bo Nix. And I don't think that Bo Nix is going to be great, but I've, I still am not backing up. Like I'm not backing off my Nixon pennants being good prospects. I'm not backing off. I still think that they're good,

like good prospects overall. They might go in the third round. I might look foolish. I don't care. I, I it's just look at the numbers, look at the way they play. I like them both, but Bo Nix has been the favorite choice of former quarterbacks. And I brought this up because it's so interesting that when former quarterbacks watch Bo Nix, they do video pieces about how much they like him,

including Kurt Warner, who's obviously no joke. So like, what is Kevin O'Connell former quarterback? But if we're only talking in terms of, look, there's a clear number one, then there's a second tier of Daniels may. And then there is McCarthy in his own tier. And then there's a pretty steep drop off in the other two.

If we think that, which we're often wrong, but if we think that that's the case, then the answer is yes. That from the second tier may is a better fit than Daniels and that McCarthy is a better fit than Knicks or Pennix. It's just like that makes logical sense based on what we think we know. I still like Knicks and Pennix. I'm still skeptical about

McCarthy, but if Kevin O'Connell wants them, then, uh, my rankings for fit. I mean, just throwing Caleb Williams out of the conversation. Cause he's the best for anybody. I think for prospect wise, I would have Drake may number one and fit. Yeah. I mean, McCarthy feels like a better fit, but also I think like Nick's through on time and there's always this big discussion about throwing on time. It's probably may McCarthy, Nick's Pennix, but Pennix has that huge arm, but I think they want someone who can make a play. If I had to guess, I think that fourth and eight probably sticks in them as much as it sticks in you. And they want somebody to make a play. So, you know, anyway, well, let's end on this. Drew's hitting it right. And I, uh, all the

comments that I did not get to, I try to get to as many as I can, but you guys are coming fast and furious today with all sorts of good stuff. And I didn't have a chance to see the kick returners you mentioned. I'm going to have to go back and look at that. You know, there are people who like Knicks. I mean, John says Knicks threw on time, always threw from dirty pockets more times than not. He had a good offensive line,

and he had a good offensive system and playmakers and all that, but he got the ball out. And that just, there's something aesthetic about a guy getting the ball out that I like that maybe I'm overrating, but I mean, it's not like this guy came out of nowhere. He was,

he was a good prospect coming out of high school and eventually became what they thought he could become. And then it's still like not good enough. I don't know. I mean, I'll stick with some of these takes and see how they work out. And maybe I'll be completely off and then we'll talk about why. But we'll end on this. And there's lots to come this week.

We'll see what I got cooking up maybe for tomorrow. I don't have anything scheduled for tomorrow at the moment, but Thursday I got a couple of podcasts to record with some very good guests. So we'll go through that and we'll try to bring you as many perspectives as we can. I think maybe, maybe I got to get Manny back, back on because I know you guys miss Manny. So let me wrap on this though. Drew says, can't wait for April 25th. There you go.

I'm assuming that's the date of the draft. I haven't looked. It's in a month. All right. You guys are the best. Two hours of football talk off of the owners meetings. Who are we? Who are we these days?

I didn't even go to the owners meetings in previous years. Now I'm going and we're talking for two hours about it. Very exciting times in Vikings land. And tomorrow, if we're going live tomorrow, let's see how it plays out because we got to make sure we have one of these, one of these rumor of the day.

And maybe we have like a smoke screen to work with. So we'll see, we'll see how it turns out, but at very least we'll keep it rolling here on the channel. So thanks so much to everybody for listening slash watching. And we will see you all again very soon. Football.