Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Burning offseason Vikings questions: Which position will they leave out?

Episode Date: March 1, 2021

Matthew Coller and Paul Hodowanic get together to talk about some important offseason questions as we enter March, including which position the Vikings might choose not to fill if they run out of cap space and assets. Plus they discuss how many years it would be until they won the NFC North if Russell Wilson magically landed with the Chicago Bears and which NFC teams are in the best position to improve and which are in tough. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Get Coors Light in the new look delivered straight to your door with Drizzly or Instacart, Coors Brewing Company, Golden, Colorado, and as always, celebrate. Hello, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider presented by Scout Logistics and our new sponsor, Symbol, the stock market for sports. You'll hear a little bit more in the show about that. Before I get to my conversation with Paul Hodowanek, I want to throw this out there. If you leave a five-star review and a question, I will answer that question in a new segment that I'm going to be doing where I take your mailbag or Q&A type of questions and then just pick them out of the comment section and answer them. So leave a five-star review, leave a question, and I will answer it for you. All right, let's get into my conversation with Paul. Paul Hodwanik, formerly known as Intern Paul, but now has bylines in the Pioneer Press all the time. What's going on, Paul?

We're doing good. I'm looking out the window. It's nice out. It feels like it's like 60 degrees, but it's like 30. And it's not good for me because it's the end of February. And the only thing I really want to do outside is golf. But there's still like five inches of snow on the ground. So I'm coping with the fact that I only have to do like indoor, like practice swings and

like try not to hit the ceiling with my club because I know I still can't go out and do that for like at least another month. So I'm processing that currently. I bought a net to put in the garage for just oh yeah I have one okay yeah that did the same thing and I can't with the the size of the garage quite do a full driver swing but I can definitely practice all the chipping that I will still be bad at once I get out on the golf course but I, I'm having the same feelings, walking the dog. When you go from minus 10 to 34, it all of a sudden feels like, wait, why are we, why are we not on the course yet? What is going on here?

And also feels like I should be in Indianapolis, Paul, because normally I would be, this would be the day where I'd be out at the NFL combine. And I will just quickly, before we get into our questions for each other, I will just tell you about what it is like to cover the NFL Combine. So there are two big things that happen at the Combine. One is when Rick Spielman talks. Two is when Mike Zimmer talks. And we have usually these side sessions with them. And my understanding is we're going to have Zoom calls with them. It's not the same. And usually these are epic. They go 20 minutes or something like that, or even more.

And we kind of clear out the notebook with Zimmer and Spielman. And a lot of times Mike Zimmer is in much more of a chilled type of relaxed feeling, I guess, or situation. And when we're asking him stuff, oftentimes we get a lot of really interesting information from him, whether it's how he feels about certain trends around the league, how he feels about positional value, which he mentioned last year that maybe he didn't see safety as a position they wanted to long-term spend a bunch of money on. Sometimes things come out that are very surprising, like the time he said that Sam Bradford's knee had a degenerative issue and his seemed like his career was going to be over. There was also the time where he talked about why he didn't let Kevin Stefanski out of

his contract. So generally is a time to get a lot of very, very insightful information from Mike Zimmerman, not just on like juicy nuggets, but also he's much more willing to kind of just like hang out and talk ball a little bit. And I'm going to miss that this year. And then the rest of the time, so those are the two big things. The rest of the time, there's just players going to podiums all over the place. And it's just like this guy's at the podium, that guy's at the podium, this guy, and you can just kind of hang out and see who you can talk to. And then other

than that, who can you run into an indie? Where can you eat are the big questions. And one of the things I did last year was I just went with Bobby Peters, who's, he's been on the show before. And we sat in a lobby and just hung out and waited until people came through and talked to people, ran into people. Sage Rosenfels and I hung out just at one of the hotels and bumped into people and talked about a bunch of different stuff, and you just end up getting all sorts of little nuggets of information. And Sage ended up in a restaurant at 2 a.m. with Archie Manning somehow.

Like there was all sorts of things going on. So I have a question off this. Yeah. Because the combine to me, as in someone who wants to get into sports journalism, so follows just a ton of football guys on Twitter and the combine along with like the senior bowl and the super bowl feel like the meccas for, like, sport, football reporter, like, kind of vacation work slash combo where they're doing some work, but it's just a time to, like, catch up and do really, like, you've been to the Senior Bowl, obviously the Super Bowl was here, but just ranking in terms of like the football writers, like dream little vacation

weekend, is it, where do you rank those three? Because those seem to be kind of the pinnacle of when everyone gets to travel, not just for a weekend game, it's like an amazing feeling. Yeah, I think the Super Bowl is much more like doing the radio row thing, much more of you do kind of a little bit of work at the Super Bowl, and then the rest is up to you, whatever you want to do. With the Combine, it's a lot more work. I mean, you end up in these places, in these hotels and restaurants and everything else trying to run into people

and trying to find out everything you could find out, or just catching up with people you haven't seen for a while, or being like, hey, that's Doug Williams over there, something like that. That happened to me. I was in a restaurant, Doug Williams came and sat down next to me. Like, wow, a legend. But, you know, I think there's a lot of work to be done at the NFL Combine. I mean, last year, we were doing, Sage and I were doing we're doing shows where we would have to record stuff and send it back and then record and send it back. And then there's a lot of writing to be done off of these long press conferences. And there's a lot of news that comes out because all

the insiders are there. So you're trying to track all the different things that are going on. So that one is, yeah, there's a little bit of free time and there's a couple of really cool restaurants there. But even when you're kind of wandering around and running into people, you're still sort of working because you're having conversations and things like that and trying to kind of fill up the notebook in your head of what can I find out. I found out the funniest little nugget last year that from a special teams coach, I asked the special teams coach that I had never met before, just met for the first time. I was like, what do you think of that XFL kickoff? They're like, oh, and he was like, well, we were actually discussing that in some of our special teams meetings over whether the NFL would want it. And I was like,

breaking news, like, I guess. So there were, there were a lot of different things but it doesn't feel like you're really and I'm not a kick my heels up kind of guy or whatever uh you know I don't I don't like stay out till two in the morning and in party or whatever when I do these things but the Super Bowl was much more when it was in Minnesota it's like go over there do the show and that's kind of it and then you can you do whatever you want. So I have not been to the Senior Bowl at any point. I don't really know what that one's like. But anyway, I'm missing it. I'm missing it quite a bit.

And just even talking about guys' hand sizes and how many bench reps they have and, oh, man, this guy's going today. You don't go inside and watch the things that are going on, by the way, as a reporter. That's another one of the weird things is that everything that's happening, you're just like on the outside watching an NFL network like everyone else. The key is to be interviewing some of the prospects that might have interest. And there are things that are just hilarious and drive you crazy.

Like there's always one reporter who's like, did you talk to the Browns? You're like man who cares you know like just it'll be like some you know potential fourth round safety hey uh you know did you meet with the browns yet here in indy so like come on bro come on there's 32 teams we only got 11 minutes with the guy or whatever anyhow Anyhow, so I'm missing it, and I'll look forward hopefully to sort of whatever versions of breaking combine news we can get this week. So let's get into some of our questions, and I'll stop waxing poetic about Indianapolis. Great city, though. I have combine questions at some point.

Well, why don't we start there then? Why don't we start with your Combine question? Well, if you're getting like a Florida Atlantic corner that runs a four, three, and you're like, Oh, okay. So maybe in the fifth round, I remember he ran fast. So like, this is now my, my favorite fifth round prospect. So I compiled a few Vikings combine performances. I'm not going to tell you who they are, but I'm just going to give you like their 40 time, their bench, their vertical leap. And then I want you to tell me

if you know who, who it is. Okay. I love this game. Okay. So this person ran a four, six, seven, 40, uh, 7.133 cone and did 22 reps of the bench. Who am I? Okay. So four, six, seven probably puts you in the either tight end or linebacker range. So I'm going to guess that that might be Anthony Barr linebacker. It is not, it is Alexander Madison, 4'6", kind of a bruiser. Yeah, that's right. That's right. That was only in the 25th percentile. This is a really invigorating game, but I'm loving it.

Next, 4'5", 7'40", and a 7-second three-cone, and then 25 reps on the bench. So very similar to Alexander Madison. Okay, 4'7", though. No, 4'5", 7". Oh, 4'5", 7". So quicker than Alexander Madison. Quicker than Alexander Madison.

Can I get a height? Will that give it away? It might give it away. This is kind of crazy that he ran a 4-5-7. Just athletic. Is this Irv Smith? This is Daniil Hunter. Daniil Hunter.

Oh, yeah. 4-5-7. So the one thing with the – when you mentioned the three cones, I just, like, don't understand what a good three cone is. Okay. Give me the percentile on the three cone. Three cone, he was in, like like the 83rd percentile the 40 yard dash he's in the 98th percentile yeah yeah yeah so that was going to be my one to stump you and then finally we'll just end it here um because this is probably

drawn out too long um 40 yard dash 5. leap, 28 inches, 19 reps on the bench. 5.38? 5.38, but only 19 reps on the bench. Still on the Vikings. Still on the Vikings, 5.38. Blake Brandl. This would be Jaleel Johnson. Jaleel Johnson. Jaleel Johnson.

Okay. Yeah. He can add this to his billboard material, but he is in the sixth percentile, 40-yard dash, tenth percentile of the bench press. So this one I was just like, there are justifications for taking players, and I'm still not – it's a fourth-round pick. You never know.

But like he played a lot of the year and he was never one of these combine guys that just like, that's where usually you're taking these fourth round guys is like the combine did him well. He was in the bottom of pretty much every statistic I looked at. So it was just funny to go back and think, Oh, at one point we did think this guy was going to be the, in the future, maybe the future of the interior defensive line, and now, you know.

He was one of those, they do either one or the other. It's either you're a combine freak and then they pick you, or if you have a lot of production and play for like a gritty school. And if you play for a Big Ten school, a Fadi Adenabo playing for Northwestern, or if it's, you know, Iowa, they have to pick at least one Iowa player, even if it's Nate Stanley. Yeah, that one was always kind of an odd pick, and their defensive lineman selections, if we just go through them,

I'm always a believer in randomness with the draft, but if we just look at some of their defensive line selections in the middle rounds, you kind of go what what was going on there I mean the seventh rounders finally just take guys who have good combines and hope I mean the likelihood that a seventh rounder becomes even Steven Weatherly is pretty low and that was a good one he turned out to be a decent player and maybe they can get him to come back because Carolina let him go but when you look at the the fourth rounders you get Jaleel Johnson like you said the combine should have been red flags all over the place and Jalen Holmes didn't produce anything in terms of sacks for Ohio

State DJ Wanham didn't produce anything in terms of sacks for Ohio State there's just been some selections in those rounds where you go, what was exactly the thinking here? Did you like the guy's personality? I don't know. I don't know. That's an odd one. I'm going to start with you on the Vikings needs here, because there are a lot as we go into the season where things will start to happen. Players will get released. We'll have a better understanding who the free agents really are. There's lots of lists out there of, you know, top 100 free agents and all those things.

Well, those are going to change because there will be cap casualties and re-signings and everything else. So let's say the Vikings needs are two defensive linemen, a safety, a corner, a wide receiver, and at least one offensive lineman. If you have to fill all of those but one, which one would you fill? Is that it?

Is that all they need? Yeah, I mean, right, right. I mean, this is the thing about this offseason. There's a lot to do, and there's not a lot of money to do it with, and I'm just going to circle back and snark quickly, this is why we talk about the cousins thing so but that's it those are all those are all the needs which one would you leave off and so by leave off that means we're not drafting anyone we're not signing anyone we're just taken

with what we got yep you're not drafting anyone within the first three rounds because usually first three rounds those are guys who could potentially play. But after that, it's all development projects. Or free agency, let's not even count like a Tajay Sharp signing. Let's say it's got to be above a million dollars to be a signing to count. Okay. So in my head, it's not going to be the D-line. I think they need to address the D-line in the draft, in pre-agency, in some way. Like they were in the bottom of the league in that.

We all know that. And they just can't continue with what they had. The depth was not there. Like you're assuming Daniel Hunter comes back. You're assuming Michael Pierce comes back to full health and full play from what they had last season and the last time we saw either of them. But you just can't rely on the unit that you have, especially with the Jaleel Johnsons, the Jalen Holmes, the Hercules,

Mata Afas. You can't do that. So it's not going to be the D-line for me. It's not going to be the offensive line for me either. They need to do something there. We can't have a Drew Samia situation happening again. That has to be addressed. Now you're getting into the wide receiver, the safety, the cornerback thing. I'm a proponent of getting another wide receiver, so I'm not going to go

there either. My head immediately went to, I don't know if you need to address the cornerbacks. Like if we're doing this exercise, if Anthony Harris is leaving and he's not coming back, which I think is the assumption everyone's under, there's going to be an open safety spot. And I'm just not super confident with saying, okay, Josh Metellus, the reins are yours. Take it. And so I'm going to say you'd leave off corner because in this scenario, then you would be getting a safety somewhere who you think can play alongside Harrison Smith. You're saying're saying okay we now have a little bit of probably a safety blanket if you're signing someone who you think can start or you're drafting someone who you think could start alongside Harrison Smith you're thinking you have that safety blanket and then all bet on the

progress made by Cameron Dantzler by Jeff Glad Gladney. Just hope and pray for my cues, maybe. Just like that's where I would be. Obviously, I'd want them to address all of these, but it might just not be possible. And so I'm choosing that because that's the one established area where I think they could get by. I guess you could say wide receiver is that other one. But after Thielen and Jefferson, like it's well documented.

There's like not another NFL guy behind them really so I think you need to at least address depth there um assuming one of them's gonna miss a game or two because that just kind of is probably how it's gonna be in the NFL like you're probably gonna miss a wide receiver for a game or two you're gonna need someone and that someone can't just can't be Alexander Hollins or Tasha Sharp or something like that. Hey, folks, I want to welcome a new sponsor to the show, Symbol. Symbol is a sports marketplace where you can trade shares of professional teams just like stocks, except for it's not as complicated as the stock market.

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super comfy shirts and hoodies. You will love it. That is S-O-T-A-S-T-I-C-K dot com. Original Minnesota sports inspired goods. Code Purple Insider for free shipping. I can't believe you left off Miles Dorn from your safety analysis. Big mistake. A guy who briefly flashed in training camp last year and then i think got

hurt and we never saw him i will actually pick safety here which sounds funny because in the draft sim that courtney and i did just the other day i picked a safety in the first round but when it comes to all these different needs and we're trying to say, well, which is the one that they could replace in-house without doing a ton of damage. So they don't have a guy right off the top of my head. You mentioned Josh Vitalis, Miles Doran. I don't think there's another one on the roster. Who's a safety that could play back there. But here's my thought is if you have an open competition between a couple of guys who

have played, maybe even you say to someone like Chris Boyd or Harrison Hand, try back there. I think that that is a position that can be a little more covered up. And history tells us that you can develop somebody there like Anderson Dayhoe, like Anthony Harris. Neither one of those guys were draft picks, and they play alongside Harrison Smith. So you can simplify the job and say, all right, all you have to do is kind of this. Just play the deep safety role or whatever you need from that spot because Harrison Smith is going to be doing so much more. Can you paint over that? Probably. I think we found last year that you

cannot paint over corner you can't just be like hey Chris Jones who are you why don't you just come in here and play and give up 131 quarterback rating which is what Chris Jones gave up and had one of the worst um ole attempts at a tackle that I have ever seen when tony pollard ran for a touchdown i mean that's the thing is that the drop off from your average to your bad corner and how much it impacts your defense is humongous i'm not sure that the drop off from a good safety like anthony harris to a guy who's just trying to figure it out that position is insane i think it's insane from an average corner and and I feel the same way about Mike Hughes. Like, do you want to really roll the dice that Mike Hughes can actually play

a full season? It just doesn't seem likely since he's been in the league for three years and hasn't even played as many snaps as Jeff Gladney. Yeah. And hearkening back to what you said about Mike Zimmer at the combine last year, and he's saying we're not prioritizing safety, that would probably shift maybe the likelihood. Like, this is what we're looking at. Maybe the likelihood is probably closer to your scenario where they don't – they prioritize cornerback. You know, Zimmer finds his lanky guy that he likes in the draft or another Trey Waynes, a really speedster guy or something. The combine may have influenced him there. So maybe we can't, maybe he doesn't fall in love with a cornerback because of it.

But I would say if we're trying to deem what's the most likely, I feel like it's probably safety or I mean, the narrative around from the media and from the organization is we want another wide receiver. Do you sense that that's what is going to happen? Because I think that's kind of the thing they've always neglected. So if I'm looking at this, that seems like one that they say, well, we have Thielen, we have Jefferson.

We always love Chad Beebe. And we like some of these other options. Like, does that feel like the one that maybe they're most likely to just ignore? I think that likely to just ignore I think that that's right I think wide receiver probably is the only thing I'd say there is they looked at Irv Smith is sort of a wide receiver three last year and that was it's a little bit dubious because you can't have the deep threat for a tight end even if he is a guy that can somewhat go down the field like Irv Smith is not the same as having someone who runs a 4-4 or 4-3 who can take a top off the defense or be a

playmaker or something like that it's a little different but if they lose Kyle Rudolph I do think it will be a priority to find another wide receiver that they can fit in there still history tells us that it's just not a position that they have put a whole lot of priority into. I just think that this offseason is the offseason to change what you prioritize a little. Prioritize a guard. Prioritize wide receiver three. Because those are the things that have really hurt you in the past. So maybe try something different when it comes to those. But if this was putting Vegas odds, I think wide receiver ends up at the very top of that.

So let me ask you another question. What free agency visit or signing or anything of the like, do you remember being like, whoa, this could be huge, or this is a really big deal. And then it just, you know, turned out to be almost nothing. I'll give you mine, and you can think of yours. Mine is Eddie Lacy visiting here. Eddie Lacy was good for the Packers for a number of years, just this mound of a human being. And the Vikings are looking for running backs because Adrian Peterson is gone.

This was before the 2017 season. They end up signing Latavius Murray. But I think Eddie Lacy came here for a visit and someone met him at the airport and interviewed him at the airport on his way out about potentially signing with the Vikings. And I don't even know what happened after that. Like, where did Eddie Lacy go? Who did he play for? I have no recollection of what happened after Eddie Lacy was a free agent.

Did he just interview with teams and then retire? I mean, I don't have this information. I'm going to have to look up, like, where did he even sign that year? He did nothing else in his career, and it would have been a disaster signing had the Vikings signed him. His last season was 2017, and he played for Seattle, and he ran for 2.6 yards per carry and played nine games. It would have been a disaster signing.

We were all like, oh, Eddie Lacy's got great numbers. He'd be great, you know. So that's mine. I love the Eddie Lacy almost signed here thing. Yeah, I'm, like, racking my brain to try to remember. I remember there was a safety that was like on the on the board that the Vikings could have signed before Anthony Harris came available it might have it honestly might have been draft I feel like I always was like oh I want like

Von Bell or like or there'd be some like random slot corner that I would watch um in like the NFL free agent like special on ESPN oh yeah yeah. An hour before they're going to go through the top, the top free agents that I'm saying, well, that would be a Vikings fit. And like, I remember them signing Everson Griffin and not liking it. I remember them signing Latavius Murray and not liking it. Both those worked out pretty well for them. Um, so I'm trying to think of back to misses or just random names it's just there's just so

many of them they're the the random backup running backs has to be one of the things and the Eddie Lacey one's great because he just like disappeared off the face of the earth um and you're just like what or like Trent Richardson I remember him signing with like the Colts and it was like or he got traded to the Colts and it was like, okay, Trent Richardson. And then a year later, he's not in the league anymore. So I think, yeah, free agency is just a fun thing because we, and it's the same thing with the draft. We get our mindset on a guy and they just go,

they go to a different team and we think it's a grave mistake that the Vikings didn't get them. And then in three years they're out of the league and you don't even remember who they are, what they're doing. I know before, before we started the show, you were talking about Russell Okun. I remember, I do remember that one in terms of the, we need to sign an offensive lineman. Let's just sign Riley Reif to a big contract.

That one probably turned out to be good as well. I, I remember not liking it. So I don't have a history of liking the Vikings free agent picks. And then the ones that actually turn out to be good as well. I remember not liking it. So I don't have a history of liking the Vikings free agent picks and then the ones that actually turn out to be good. I guess I don't like those. And probably that teaches me that I know a lot less about football than they do. And so they probably understand why they wanted to draft Latavia or why they wanted to sign Latavius Murray or Riley Reif and and anything like that or you could say that you know sometimes it's just how the ball bounces whether a move

turns out or not that you know it just as easily could have blown up in their face that they signed Riley Reif instead Okun kind of blew up in his team's face and remember this is the team I'll give you another one they offered Matt Khalil a big deal that year. They wanted to re-sign and keep Matt Khalil, who was out of the league a couple of years later, and that would have been horrendous. Like, Riley Reifus turned out to be a good player for this team. I mean, good everything, like good representative of the franchise, good in the locker room, you know, all those sorts of things.

Just like the ideal citizen at left tackle. And he only ever really gets wrecked when he goes against someone like Khalil Mack. And, of course, most people do. If they had signed Mack Khalil, honestly, they probably don't go to the NFC championship. I mean, if they had such a mess at left tackle, they probably don't get there because Reef was solid. I mean, how crazy is that so you never know it's not just you i remember him as well i remember when the vikings signed

mike remmers and i remember like looking at the tweet maybe it was chris thomason or ben gesling or something and so like the panthers fans has like had like invaded the comments and they were like good riddance like we we we are so glad. And so I remember thinking, oh, you know, Remmers will be good. Like, he was all right. Like, it'll be better here. And then you just go in the comments section, and it gets ripped. And I remember that happening with the Khalil signing. Like, someone announced the Khalil signing,

and then all these Vikings Twitter avatars came in, and they were like, good riddance. And so sometimes that works out. Sometimes it doesn't. With those two offense alignment it definitely did yes it definitely did and I also think about the signings that didn't happen that would have made them better like they wanted I think Roger Saffold was a report that didn't happen remember the Richie Incognito drama where Richie Incognito said in

an interview that the Vikings wanted him but then it turned out that it was just a vague comment from Tony Sperano. And then he called Mike Zimmer a liar and then played great for the Raiders. That's the best part. That is the biggest kicker of the story is if he was the Vikings left guard, if they had just said, yeah, Richie, come on over. We know that you've got some issues, but like, give it a try. How much better are they with this monster pass blocking at left guard instead of tom compton and pat alfline and dakota dozier so

all right on to your next question well i want you to ask me your russell wilson question because then i have one to follow up with it so okay i know you have a russell wilson's bears thing yes i want so russell wilson i'm I'm sure people have seen it by now, but his agent released teams that he would go to, which is such a weird thing to do. And I saw – And it was like he doesn't want to leave, but if he leaves, these are the teams he's going to.

And then it was like he stormed out of an offensive meeting. Like I – Yeah, my wife and I have this all the time with dinner where it was like he stormed out of an offensive meeting like i yeah my wife and i have this all the time with dinner where it's like um i would rather stay at home and eat here and cook but here's a list of the restaurants that i might go to if you decided that we would you know go out to eat instead and uh usually we end up going out to eat instead. So maybe that means that Russell Wilson will get traded. But the Bears are on his list.

Super weird. Very surprised to see the Bears on his list. I want to know if Russell Wilson somehow ended up with the Bears, when is the next time the Vikings win the NFC North? If Russell Wilson goes to the Bears. Okay. So I was doing this calculus in my head. I think their best opportunity might be this year. If Russell Wilson goes to the Bears. Okay. So I was doing this calculus in my head.

I think their best opportunity might be this year, this upcoming year. Because, again, I don't know why Russell Wilson wants to go to the Bears particularly. The situation in every single aspect looks worse. You don't have any wide receiver that's similar to DK Metcalf or even Tyler Lockett there. You have an equally bad offensive line. You have what we think to be a bad coach and GM in the Bears. So if he's going to the Bears, he's obviously going to elevate them. But I would think this first year, they don't have any cap space right now.

They're capped out anyways. They're bringing on his contract. I don't know how they get off that. They're an older team. I don't see them as the biggest threat to them this year. So it's okay are the Vikings better than the Packers and I would say no but I would say that's probably a good shot but then after that I would assume if Russell Wilson was there and they don't do well in this first year then maybe they're getting a new coach they're reassigning some assets some big contracts come off the books uh and then it

extends out and then you have russell wilson in his prime with the bears and the vikings already can't beat the bears in soldier field with horrible quarterbacks going against them i would i'm going to chalk up russell listen at minimum getting one game a year against the vikings for the next eight years because they're not winning at soldier field and the Vikings are not good against Russell Wilson. So that suddenly becomes a matchup where you're very likely looking at potentially 0-2. And then it's like just as Aaron Rodgers might be leaving, Russell Wilson's getting phased in. This is not a great spot for the Vikings.

So I was looking at, I would think it would be post-Kirk Cousins is if the Vikings were to contend again. And that's then you're thinking a younger quarterback. And so it's hard to forecast that out, but I'll just say like 2025. Yeah, that's what it feels like. If Russell Wilson and Aaron Rodgers are in the division for the next several years, at least I'm assuming that Aaron Rodgers is going to get it worked out and they'll just trade Jordan Love and they'll continue to be at least highly competitive if not very good for the next few years. And going into next year, you're going to project the Packers at the top of the division just based on they have the MVP quarterback and he looks like he

could still play. So if Wilson ends up in the division, even if his team is not super great, they're also not super bad either. I think they actually do have a decent head coach who got all the blood out of the stone when it comes to Mitch Trubisky that he possibly could. And on the defensive side, still some talent there to work around. They would need some weapons. But as we saw from Tampa Bay, receivers start showing up when you have a great quarterback. All of a sudden, Antonio Brown says, I'll behave for a while.

Get me a Super Bowl ring. And I think that the same thing would happen in Chicago. And it would be, I think that actually it might influence the Vikings to say, now is the time to move on from Cousins because the only way that we're going to beat these guys, and this was sort of the feeling actually when Mike Zimmer was hired, the only way to beat Matt Stafford and Aaron Rodgers was going to be through defense. And they might think that way again, is the only way is if we're able to invest everything we can in defense. Because who beat Russell Wilson this year, the number one defense in the NFL in the Rams?

They might look at it that way and then, you know, also try to look for a drafted quarterback or something like that. But that was going to be my follow up. That was going to be my follow up is if he got if he went to the Bears, should that change the Vikings plans? I mean, I don't think necessarily, but I think it maybe would. I mean, their plans should be to play this out with Cousins and then move on to the next thing, unless Cousins next year takes them to 12-4 in the NFC Championship game or something like that. But if it's a similar year to even 2019 where they go 10-6 or 9-7 or 8-8,

then I think with his cap situation and a big sample of seeing good play, but maybe not quite enough or not able to build the roster around him enough, then you start looking for what's going to be our future anyway. I don't think it should necessarily be influenced by who is in the division. On the other side of that, though, if Aaron Rodgers were to, I don't know, retire next year, you might feel like having Kirk Cousins helps you in some ways by having quarterback stability and building around your quarterback through the draft and knowing that you have one of the better quarterbacks in the NFC just to start with, with Cousins. So maybe it would.

Maybe it would be an influencing factor. I don't know that I would have it that way, but I think for them maybe it would. I still see Russell Wilson to the Bears as an extreme long shot, but Cordero Patterson tweeted at Russell Wilson with a picture of those two hanging out. So, man, you never know. You never know.

I don't know. What do you think? Do you think that it would actually influence their decision if Wilson came to Chicago? I think it should go into the calculus that they look to, like, what they think about. Because my perception of this team currently in moving forward in the next years was based upon the fact that the Bears were probably going to have to replace Mitch Trubisky with a younger quarterback or another mid-level guy. And then I saw the NFC as having kind of this – an open race.

And so then you're betting against Tom Brady getting old, which I don't know if you should be doing, but at some point might happen. You're betting the same thing against Aaron Rogers and you just need to be the team that is ready. The one year that those guys falter, even if it's an injury, like put yourself in a position where if one thing happens, like you're close to up there, like you're up there. And so I guess Russell Wilson in Seattle is still a roadblock for you

to potentially get to a Super Bowl, but not in terms of getting into the playoffs, getting a good seed, potentially getting games at home, which would obviously be important and not going to Seattle. So I think it, I think it should, because if he goes there, are you going to be content with having like easily the third worst quarterback there and not a very good defense? Like it has to change. I think it would have to only because like you see in that division, like the Cardinals right away had to punt on Josh Rosen they had the number one pick they said this division has Russell Wilson at that point it had Jared Goff I think coming off Super Bowl so you're thinking he's going to be good and you're thinking we got to compete with this and so I think the Vikings if they're just kind of going

to continue to do what they're doing and play this little rebuild, not rebuild thing. Like, I don't think it would work if Russell Wilson comes into the division. But what a week it's been. At the start of the week, we're thinking, oh, Sam Darnold to the Bears. Right, right. And now we're thinking Russell Wilson. It's been quite the spectrum for Vikings fans because I think they were ready for Sam Darnold to come to the division. I think it would be a nightmare scenario if Russell Wilson came to the division.

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Check out the description box for this episode to find out more. That's bwhustle.com slash join. You know, it is, I mean, that's the off-season for you, rumor season. But you're right. It would be, if Sam Darnold goes there, I think maybe not quite a parade in Minnesota, but you would go it would be if sam darnold goes there i think maybe not quite a parade in minnesota but you would go like good that's fine they just found another guy who can't play good luck with your next rick meyer that'll work for you um but if russell wilson goes there that's their best quarterback of all time not named sid luckman i guess. Question for you, Paul. NFC teams, I want you to rank the teams that are in the best

position, like power rank, if you will. That's what we do in football. Teams that are in the best position heading into free agency slash the draft and worst teams in the NFC heading into free agency in the draft. Okay, so I wanted a little clarity on this. Is it through the scope of free agency in the draft and just fun offseason moves they can make, or are we taking into consideration what they could do then and how it could matter for playoff success and things like that?

Where is my measuring stick? I think maybe the team that could help themselves the most. The NFC teams that can that could help themselves the most, the NFC teams that, that can and cannot help themselves the most over the next six weeks or so. I think when you go through the cap situation of all the teams, all of them are kind of on the AFC side, like the top, the biggest ones are all on the other side.

And so there aren't that many, like no one has $80 million like the Jags do. Like the top team is Carolina with 37. Washington has like around like 40 or something like that. The team I look at, and this is kind of scary, is Tampa is in a good situation with where they're at in terms of free agent money. And I was listening to the podcast you did with Brad, PFF Brad, about the salary cap and the way that things are going to kind of shift in terms of, you know, you're probably going to get some good players that are just going to take a one-year prove-it deal

that want to see what's out there the next year when maybe the market rebounds. And the Bucs are kind of in a situation where you have Tom Brady, you're coming off a Super Bowl, you have Bruce Arians, and there could be some real opportunities to get some of these guys that, okay, I'm not getting the big deal that I want. Let's take a Sheldon Richardson deal. Let's take an even less deal just because I'm a little older I had a down season like AJ Green or TY Hilton or any of those guys that you're like okay they're trying to prove that they can rebound that seems like the perfect situation that you could go I don't know how much it would dramatically improve their team because they're all already really good but that that seems like one of the teams that I would be really excited to be because you know they're going to draft well uh wherever teams that I would be really excited to be because you know

they're going to draft well uh wherever they are you know they're going to be an attractive spot for free agents and so I'd be I'd be worried about them another team I'd be worried about 49ers have a decent amount of cap space they have a top six pick or something like that they could make moves in terms of what their quarterback's going to be. They could do a whole host of different things. If I was a 49ers fan, I'd be excited about this offseason just with the possibilities that they can have. And then with John Lynch and Kyle Shanahan, you have to feel good about whoever you draft, whoever you put on your team schematically to get the best out of them.

I mean, they draft Brandon Ayuk. He was kind of like, I don't know. He suddenly turned into a great, a really solid wide receiver for them last year. I see them as a team with the injuries they have coming back. They're going to get healthier. They have some cap space. That seems like a team that you'd go to. And then I'd say Atlanta, just for that fourth pick, to possibly take Justin Fields to do something dramatic with that. If you're going to trade it, you could trade Matt Ryan. You could do a lot of different things there to help bulk up your team. So those were kind of the teams I looked at in terms of top teams.

I mean, you could say Carolina could improve a lot. You could say Washington can improve, but both of them don't have their quarterback. And so I want to be optimistic about the cap space that they have. But, like, I like Washington. They have a good defense. They have, it seems like, a good structure. But if they're going to sign Marcus Mariota or Cam Newton,

like none of those are inspiring moves to me. So I don't know. What did you think in terms of your top teams? Well, slight correction, San Francisco has the 12th pick. 12th pick. But they can move up and potentially take, you know, San Francisco has the 12th pick is where they're at. 12th pick. But they can move up and potentially take, you know, a special receiver. Well, I mean, there's going to be, I think, a special receiver on the board even when they're there, or they can do a lot of other things

because they have a strong enough roster to go 6-10 largely with Nick Mullins, which means to me, and they had a ton of injuries last year, which says to me that they are a bounce-back candidate, and like you said, they have some cap space to work with. And they had a ton of injuries last year, which says to me that they are a bounce-back candidate. And like you said, they have some cap space to work with. They are, in my mind, one of the most dangerous teams to look at because they can draft an instant-impact player, bring back a roster that just two years ago was in the Super Bowl, and then if Jimmy Garoppolo could stay healthy, which is a big if, they can be right back at the top of that division. I'm also not convinced that Matt Stafford is going to change things massively for the

Los Angeles Rams. I was looking at Washington as the team you'd want to be for this offseason because they just have so many different directions that they can go. They can get a bridge quarterback. They could trade up and draft a quarterback. Most of the pieces of that team are actually in place. So if there was somebody that was going to trade up to whatever, from 20th to 8th, to take Justin Fields or Trey Lance or whomever, they could be the team that could do that and then sign someone like Cam Newton or Ryan Fitzpatrick as a bridge quarterback. They are in a position also to add even more to their roster. If they need another defensive

player, if they need another offensive lineman, they definitely need another wide receiver, they might sign two. And if they sign two wide receivers and Cam Newton and trade up in the draft, like they could all of a sudden go from, hey, 7-19 with Taylor Heineke, LOL, to, oh, wow, they are an actual competitor right now. And I think that's an interesting place to be. With Carolina, I just don't trust them. Like, I don't trust their organization right now. But on the surface, with the eighth overall pick and a lot of cap space,

I think that you would want to be Carolina. I just don't think that the people running carolina are good at what they do well we'll see we'll see uh the teams that you don't want to be are the eagles and saints i mean that that one is to me that's easy like it's far and away the eagles and saints the eagles just traded their quarterback and their 43 million dollars over the cap and the saints did an amazing job in the draft in recent years and had an elite quarterback and found a way to bungle every playoff game I mean even we don't talk about that game against Tampa Bay but they were in the driver's seat to beat Tampa Bay and then they fumble it away with Jared Cook and then an interception then all of a sudden you know Tampa Bay's moving on that they have found ways to just botch their playoff games

and ruin the last shots that they had with Drew Brees. And now they're $70 million over the salary cap, according to Over the Cap. Those are the teams you wouldn't want to be. And probably, I mean, the Vikings, I think if this show is being done in another city, they say the Vikings because they don't have the second round pick and they're over the cap and they were seven and nine and you're saying what's the path to getting back to being a really really good team and it's a little bit hard to find so they've probably fall in that category of teams that are in the worst spots rather than teams that are in

the best though um at least at least they have a team name, unlike Washington. Sure. I would also say before maybe this recent Russell Wilson rumor, you could probably say the Bears in terms of where they're going to be. I agree. 20th pick. They're in a quarterback purgatory. They have an aging roster that is kind of built to win last year

and the year before and maybe this year and not much further after that they're gonna lose alan robinson all indications are he's he's probably gone the way they treated him in terms of offering them a contract extension so yeah i can't imagine sans russell wilson you'd want to be the bears and i I agree if Washington had any sort of established quarterback in place, that would be the clear answer with where they're at. It's just what I was thinking when you were talking is it's such a bummer that Dwayne Haskins didn't work out because this team is built for if they had Dwayne Haskins and he was competent for this to be a good team like if they set up the perfect

we have a quarterback on a rookie contract if he was anywhere good they'd probably re-sign Brandon sure sheriff sheriff whatever sheriff sheriff sheriff say whatever you want there are no there are no rules on the show so they they'd have him. They could sign another wide receiver. Like, when you were talking, it just made me sad that they aren't – that they didn't have that quarterback who's just competent, like Baker Mayfield or just someone who could just right the ship, just be there, just doing what they need to do, that typical game manager, lesser Kirk Cousins. Like, that would be – that's all they need. And so, yes, if they could find do, that typical game manager, lesser Kirk Cousins, like that would be, that's all they need.

And so, yes, if they could find that, that'd be great. I'm just not sure that they're going to be able to find it. And that right there is sort of your cautionary tale with, and we talk about it all the time of, hey, if you can find the quarterback on a rookie contract, it's like having a golden ticket. However, if you draft Dwayne Haskins it's like getting punched in the face 50 times because they have a good roster and if Dwayne I mean this

if Dwayne Haskins had been really good last year or even just an average quarterback if he was Kirk Cousins for them last year they're 11 and 5 they're 12 and four in that division. They're running through everybody. And instead, the guy is a joker and he's going out maskless to strip joints and stuff and getting released because of it. I mean, you just couldn't have it worse. It's an embarrassment to your franchise. It means you go seven and nine instead of going, you know, deep into maybe deep into the playoffs. He's really good. Right. And being in that perfect situation. And that is where I will say that anybody who is afraid of that situation, when we talk about moving on from Kirk Cousins, you're right. It's just that you can't win big if you don't play sort of thing.

You can't hit the lottery if you never buy a ticket. But unfortunately, sometimes you lose and waste your money. And that's exactly what happened with Dwayne Haskins. Do you have one more? Are you – was that – I can ask one more. I just – this is kind of a shift just based on what we were talking about. One thing that I've just kind of been noticing is through listening to your podcast and just kind of the general sentiment is there's kind of two options it's trade kirk cousins or extend kirk cousins and that just kind of feels like the two obvious routes and i get that you are either going to move on or you want to lessen

that cap hit so you can get some good players to continue to capitalize with him but we were in this position last year and they decided to extend him and midway through the season we were in this position last year, and they decided to extend him. And midway through the season, we were crying over the fact that they couldn't have just let him go this year if they didn't sign that contract extension and kind of go all out. And it feels like we're just dismissing maybe just letting him play on the contract. You mentioned it. It seems like that's kind of lost in people's minds. And I understand why. If you're going to commit to him for these next two years,

you're trying to get some cap space because this iteration of the team isn't going to do it. And if you don't change his cap hit, that's probably what you're going to get. But no one seems excited to sign up for five more years at Kirk Cousins. So if you're not going to trade him, why are we just not letting him play on his contract? Then next year, a team could could say we only have a year of Kirk Cousins it's kind of like the expiring contract in the NBA like let's let's see what we have for a year then we can figure it out after that I know the dead caps thing is just different in terms of you can't really transfer what happens in basketball to what happens in the

end or into the NFL but it feels like we're just like skipping over the fact that he can't like we can't just let him play out his contract. Like, why do you feel like that's not, we're moving away from that? I think it's because of the $45 million cap hit. It's just so big. It's like, how do you work around that? How do you find a way to extend players, to sign free agents, to do anything? That has to be lowered somehow or the

other now maybe they can do the whole transfer this to that and lower the cap hit and kick it down the road and all those things but it makes a lot of sense to me to say look make a decision on the guy extend him and lower that cap hit or trade him away and then move on. But there is a scenario where this could happen, I suppose, if Kirk Cousins told them straight out. And I wouldn't be shocked by this. I've said this before, but if I'm Kirk Cousins, I'm like, look, I'm playing out the contract that you signed me to.

I'm not helping you. Like, you did this. You put it in front of me, and I signed it. And I get questions every Friday mailbag of people like, can't Kirk Cousins just like give some of it back? Like, would you? I mean, if he didn't write the contract himself, the team wrote it. So why should he do that? I mean, I, I, I would side with him on that. He didn't sign himself. He didn't write out the contract. They did it. They made that decision. Now you made your bed. Now you sleep in it. Now, of course, there are, you know, the other part of it of, well, don't you want to

win and you can help the team and you're already rich. I get all that. But I would understand a player saying, honor the contract that you wrote and you had me sign and don't ask me to help you with the cap. That was your job. So so but there is a world where he says that and they say okay let's just figure it out we'll work around his cap hit we'll do everything else we can and in 2022 we'll just play it out and then we'll go from there it's going to feel like 2017 in dc though in 2017 in dc he was clearly not coming back to Washington. And there was just this sort of, we don't know where we're going as a franchise now, because this guy wants to leave in free agency. They go seven and nine. They're not really competitive. They, you know, they actually were

paying him a ton of money on the, on the cap hit on the franchise tag. So they couldn't really sign a lot of other players. It was a messy situation. And that's what you end up with if you have a quarterback on an expiring contract, because both sides know this is over when you get to that point. And that's an uncomfortable place to be for everybody. So you don't necessarily want to be there. But is it a possibility? Yeah. Yeah. I think it is a realistic possibility that he says, I'm not signing an extension here. And here's the other thing if you're Cousins too. Let's say Cousins' goal in this world is to make as much money as he possibly can. He's hitting free agency then, right?

I mean, he's not signing an extension that would be any sort of hometown discount. There's going to be 17 games. There's going to be a new TV contract. Like when all that stuff kicks in, the money is going to go through the roof. Kirk Cousins is going to be looking for $50 million a year in two years. So, I mean, you're right. I mean, you make a very fair point. If they went to him with an extension and he said, sorry, boys, somebody else will pay me even more once all that money comes in. And, you know though at that point I think you got to trade if he tells you I'm not signing extension with you to lower my cap it you probably do have to trade him or you're just going to be so screwed with the cap you can't be good in 2022 so that's

that's why I think I come to that fork in the road I'm not saying it's impossible but I think it's it would be really uncomfortable and it would just be disadvantageous unless you thought we can absolutely win the Superbowl with him on that cap hit, which is kind of hard to believe. Does that make sense? Yeah, no, that makes, that makes sense, I guess. And maybe this is the cap implications because I know after what, March 19th, then his next two years are guaranteed. Could they trade him like after this season? Like, or is the money, do you know if the money then stays on them?

Because in my mind it's like, okay, yes, we're not maybe getting the cap relief this year. You let him play it out. You let Zimmer and Spielman play it out without a long-term contract that they can kind of cling to and say, we're all in this together. You, I guess you proverbially kick the can down the road a year. And that is probably not what fans want because it probably means another so-so season, and you don't want that going in. You want the potential of that 10-6, 11-5 of something happening.

But in my mind, it just seems like we're just accepting, okay, we're going to just keep extending him, and this is just the way it's going to be, and the only other option is we need to trade him in the next two weeks. And it feels like there should be some middle ground. Yeah. No, they could trade him after this year. They could trade him before 2022. And I believe it's only $10 million on the cap hit if they do that.

That's why if the Vikings are there at 14 and Trey Lance or Justin Fields or Mac Jones are there, you have to really think about it. Because the exact thing that happened with Alex Smith is that he was about to go into the last year of his deal when they picked. It was really the same situation. He had two years left when they picked Patrick Mahomes. He played out the second to last year. They traded him to Washington. Washington extended him. But he would have been under contract when they traded him, clearly, because he would need to be. So they could do exactly that. They could play out this year, see how it goes, and then they could attempt to offer him a contract extension.

If he says no, then they can trade him. And that would be your reason to draft a quarterback this year is to have someone who could be his successor. Here's the other thing. Before we wrap up, I'll just say this, that look how many quarterbacks are available right now. Even Russell Wilson is available in some way. Deshaun Watson in some way available, or at least unhappy enough to be looking around. If you can build this team up with Justin Jefferson, more offensive line help another receiver a little more on the defensive side to after this year they look like one of the most attractive destinations go 10 and 6 and you look like one of the most attractive destinations

in the league for quarterback they could do this they could trade cousins away get a first round pick back and then sign somebody else or trade for somebody else, whoever's out there. Right now we don't know, but we didn't know last year. We didn't know last year that Tom Brady would go to the Bucs. How did the Bucs get Tom Brady? Because they got the cool ship? No, they got him because they had a roster that was really attractive he thought he could win with.

You want to be that team. I mean, it's even one of the reasons why Favre wanted to come here I'm sure it was to stick it to the Packers but it was also because the roster was really good that's the best way to get somebody to come in so if that if that is the plan it's probably the best plan draft a quarterback maybe even trade up but draft the quarterback have somebody ready play out this year trade him, hand it over to the other quarterback, or just play Russian roulette assuming that somebody will be open. I mean, if they – let's say it was next year and it was Marcus Mariota. Like, would you feel terrible about that or, like, massively different?

If you look at Mariota's career, like, he's a 9-7 type quarterback. Do you feel massively different? And then you could draft one? Probably so man interesting stuff interesting stuff but that's why i would not expect this decision with cousins to be made soon i would expect it to be made after after next year football so much ball so much football um paul's great to catch up it's great to catch up awesome by the great to catch up. Awesome. By the way, you tweet about the games you're covering for the Pioneer Press and things like that.

So if people can figure out how to spell your last name, at Paul underscore Hodowonic, which is H-O-D-O-W-A-N-I-C. So they can go find you there. You're covering stuff. I'm covering stuff. I'm tweeting about the Timberwolves, which you're doing covering stuff i'm tweeting about the timberwolves which i'm upset about i'm tweeting about the vikings tweeting about golf if any of that interests you come on over yeah i'm just saying you're doing your thing out there and uh and i'm proud because you're no longer intern

you're just paul so good for you and uh hey we'll do this again soon man perfect