Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Cam Robinson trade details + Cashman, Risner, Hockenson updates

Episode Date: October 31, 2024

Matthew Coller talks about new details of the Vikings' trade for LT Cam Robinson. Kevin O'Connell talked about whether he will play this Sunday. Plus Blake Cashman misses practice, KOC comments on Risner and says Hockenson will play Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here, live here on a Wednesday evening. And as always on Wednesdays, this is your show. Questions, comments, anything that is on your mind, I am willing to answer. And we'll have a lot of fun with the conversation here over the next hour plus but i also as i always do on wednesday have a bunch of notes and things to talk about that i gathered from tco performance center and elsewhere today uh that are of interest starting with the cam robinson trade and the final details to that whether whether he's going to play, the injury reports for both teams, and the vibe from TCO Performance Center

that I know that you guys are very interested in finding out. So throw the comments, questions into the comment section, and I will go back and forth with you guys for a while, as always. But let me just begin with where the Cam Robinson trade stands. So Cam Robinson arrived at TCO Performance Center today and was not at practice, which could make it a little bit on the dicey side for him to play against the Indianapolis Colts. It's certainly not impossible for Robinson to play, but Kevin O'Connell was not sure. He said basically that he needs to see Robinson practice for the next couple of days and figure out just how far he can

come along. But O'Connell did say of all the positions left tackle might be one of the ones that is the easiest to get somebody ready for a single game. He said on all the, he calls them weighty downs, but the third downs and so forth, you're mostly talking about a left tackle you versus the guy in front of you. And then he said it was going to be their goal to figure out just how far along Cam Robinson is or how much of his previous offense he is able to apply to what the Vikings do. So he said that sometimes it's just about learning new language and they can help him along. And I'm sure that Blake Brandel, if they needed to do this, could give him some pointers about what he's supposed to do on a given play. But that is a position that is a little bit easier than maybe some other spots to

throw someone right into the mix. And we have seen numerous players over the years, including TJ Hawkinson, but even Amari Cooper this last week thrown into the Wolves in their first game with a new team and just kind of figure it out might be a little bit easier for some spots but if Hawkinson could do it at maybe the most complicated position intellectually tight end where he was able to in 2022 arrive on a Tuesday play on a Sunday and play way more snaps than everybody expected in that first game for Hawkinson then there's a good chance someone who's a veteran player and has been around for as long as Cam Robinson could be thrown into the mix. If not, then they'll want to get him a full week of practice for next week. I tend to think that part of the value of trading for him is being able to

plug and play in a really important game against the Indianapolis Colts where the Vikings have to get back on track here because six and two, then two terrible teams the following weeks on the road in Jacksonville and Tennessee. And you're trying to get to eight and two by the time you're going to Chicago, but this is going to be the toughest challenge against the Colts. They have a good enough defense. They have an offense that can move the ball. So if you can get Cam Robinson in there right away, even if he doesn't know a hundred percent of the offense and they'll have to direct him a little bit on how they pick up some blitzes, what types of calls for shifting the protection and some of the run stuff, if you're running duo, how you do it with the left tackle and the left

guard. But so many of these things at that position are similar from team to team. It just comes down to maybe the language that he would have to try to cram for a specific week and a specific game plan. So he's not going to have the same type of knowledge of everybody else who's been working together for a long time. But for a given week, there is a decent chance that he could come in and play. But understandable, they want to see where he's at with practice before they just send him out there. And they may end up having to play David Questenberry if he is not ready to go. And Questenberry was on the injury report today with a knee injury, but he was limited. So he did practice. He wasn't a DNP and Questenberry can play for a game or two. He is a experienced swing offensive lineman. He's done everything along the offensive line. So if Cam Robinson can't go, I would assume that it will be Questenberry rather than a big shift where you're asking Brandl to move

and then plugging in Reisner and then changing a bunch of different parts. It would make more sense to just play Questenberry if they're going to do it for one game, if they need to. But there is a feeling maybe that Cam Robinson still could potentially play, even though he just arrived in Minnesota today.

That's part one of the update on Cam Robinson, Minnesota Viking. Part two is that Field Yates of ESPN reported that the trade to facilitate the trade, this was his tweet from Cam Robinson to the Vikings, the Jaguars absorbed over $7 million of his base salary. The Vikings will owe Robinson $2 million in base salary and $58,000 for each game that he is active the rest of the season. So you can put the math together there, 10 games left in the season, $58,000. So I won't do that for you but the vikings will not be paying cam robinson a whole heck of a lot of money in fact the jaguars will end up no matter what paying robinson more money

than the vikings will for the remainder of this season so if that influences the way you feel about it at all it doesn't really change a whole lot for me, but the fact that the Jaguars are the ones that are footing the bill for Cam Robinson to be here. So now we can officially put the whole trade together that the Vikings get a conditional seventh and Cam Robinson, they send that fifth that could become a fourth potentially for 2026 and they will pay $7 million of his salary. So in my mind, and we went over it a little bit on last night's show, actually a lot bit in the emergency podcast, but it's just not a very high price to get someone with the amount of experience of Cam Robinson. When I dug a little bit deeper into Cam Robinson, sometimes the emergency podcast

is just hair on fire and immediate reaction. One thing I did notice is that he has missed some games along his career. He did have a suspension at the beginning of last year, a PED suspension where he missed some games and he's been banged up at times throughout his career. And I think the biggest knock on him and the biggest difference between Robinson and Derrissaw will be in the run blocking. So the Vikings have had a difference-making run blocker, one of the best in the league at left tackle for this entire season. And now they're going to drop off to a guy who is routinely ranked

in the bottom quarter of the league by PFF as a run blocker. I don't know if this influences the decision about Dalton Reisner. I'll get to that in a second. If they would want to make sure that they're only downgrading the run blocking at one position. But as far as what Sam Darnold can do, it did not sound like from Kevin O'Connell that he feels like they will have to change a lot for Sam Darnold because he has Cam Robinson in there, but he did emphasize getting the ball out

of Sam Darnold's hands. That was a part of the discussion today with O'Connell was talking about he praised Darnold for that 25 yard check down pass to Josh Oliver and said that sometimes he can't wait quite as long. And I'm paraphrasing here, but can't wait quite as long for things to pop open rather, maybe just get the ball out of his hands. And he will have to do that. He should have been doing that to some extent already and not taking some of the sacks that he's taken, but we'll have to do it more. Cam Robinson is a good pass protector. He's not Christian Derrissaw as a pass protector, so it does weaken the line still a little bit there,

but overall, not a whole lot as we put a bow on that trade that was given up for Cam Robinson. The other thing from today is that O'Connell was a little dodgy about Dalton Reisner. There were several different quotes, one-liners that you could pull to try to read into it, but didn't give us a very clear answer. It stuck out to me that O'Connell said Reisner will be, quote, very much a part of the conversation. I don't know what that means, a conversation at right guard, presumably. Whether they want to stick with Ed Ingram or not, I don't know. I would be

on the side of putting in Reisner. And I had a few questions from folks about Reisner and the fact that he's moving positions and the fact that he has not had a ton of interest around the NFL previously to make him a starter on the offensive line. And I think the way that I look at it is just the current right guard position is not very tenable. You can't have Ed Ingram giving up the most pressures of anyone in the league, having the lowest PFF grade of anyone in the league, blowing up plays routinely from the right guard position. And he hasn't been that much of an above average run blocker by his grades either. So you are talking about someone who has allowed that position to just be a door right into Sam Darnold's lap all season long and the progress has not been made. Whereas

with Dalton Reisner, I think that he went to the market searching for a starting job, a locked in, you get your big contract after the way that he played last year for the Vikings. Starter, you're the guy and it's just not out there for him and the reason is because of his run blocking he is not an exceptional run blocker he's not built really like a run blocker he was a tackle in college he was moved to guard but last year he graded as the 20th best guard in pass blocking gave up zero sacks he has good. He can anchor himself against bigger guys. He's a veteran player, and he's also been practicing at right guard since training camp. He did have the injury, but he was practicing the whole time and then comes back, practices for a

few weeks. And for someone with his amount of experience, it won't be the easiest thing in the world. But I also think that he can be an average pass blocker or better than average pass blocker, which would be a big upgrade from a guy who is ranking as the worst pass blocker in the league at right guard. In my mind, it's time to make that change. We'll see if they're going to do that. They do have some tough interior defensive linemen coming up. DeForest Buckner at the top of that list. Assuming Jeffrey Simmons is still a Tennessee Titan also on that list. I think that you want Dalton Reisner doing battle with the best of the best. That is my opinion though. That is not what Kevin O'Connell

said today. He said he's in the conversation and we will find out as we go forward what that means. I did ask myself, I asked Sam Darnold about the procedural penalties, which we have just talked at length about since the Vikings are at the top of the league in delay of games, they had to waste the time out the other night, and he put it on himself and said that he just has to be better at communicating the plays, the details, and getting everybody lined up correctly. And so he did put that on himself. I still have suspicions about the play getting in fast enough for then him to communicate it to his teammates,

but that has to change. And whoever's fault it is, this mini bye week is an opportunity to change it because that is what has been pushing them back and shortening some of these drives is just taking a silly penalty. Your chance to get a first down on first and 10 versus first and 15 or second and 10 versus second and 15 is so much different. It's so much harder to get five extra yards. It's already hard enough to get first downs. It's so much harder to get extra yards. So he put it on himself and it will be his responsibility going forward to get them on the right page or him working with Kevin O'Connell to find a way to get him on the right

page. And just to give you the injury report, the Indianapolis Colts actually had a few key injuries guys today, but that doesn't mean they'll be out this week it's just Wednesday Michael Pittman Josh Downs Ryan Kelly Braden Smith did not practice something to watch there and I'm sure you all are wondering about Blake Cashman Kevin O'Connell said he was feeling positive about the potential of Blake Cashman practicing this week and potentially playing on Sunday night. Does give him a few extra hours there for Cashman to potentially prepare, but he did not practice today. And O'Connell told us before practice that he was going to do some work on the side just to make sure he's back and ready to go to get back into

practice tomorrow that they're not going to push him too early so as of right now you would lean slightly toward Blake Cashman playing and that would be a big deal to get him back but without him practicing today it does put that very much in question. And I think that they are a different defense without Blake Cashman from what they were the last two weeks. And as we talk about the reaction to Los Angeles, which I think has been interesting to watch play out on our live chats and on social media, Vikings fans' reaction to what happened against the Rams, we do have to keep in mind that the most important player on the defensive side,

the guy who has been arguably, Van Ginkle could be up there and Grenard, but arguably their most important player has not played the last couple of weeks. If they get him back, that should greatly improve what they have as a defense since so much plays off this one player and no matter how many times you point it out or you point out the short week or anything else uh still the results were i i think not not acceptable

number one for a team that's going to compete, but also the response from Vikings fans to the results of the defense struggling, I think were maybe a lot, maybe a little bit too much considering some of the mitigating circumstances. It was a bit over the top, I think, to start talking about the Vikings defense as if they have no idea what they're doing now and every team's just going to shred them for 400 yards. This is the nature of how defenses work. Sometimes you have a weak link because a player gets hurt like Blake Cashman. Sometimes you play one of the best quarterbacks. You play a great play caller. You get out schemed for a given week. That's how it goes. And that's the last thing I want to talk about just for a given week that's how it goes and that's the the last thing i want to talk about just for a second is that it has been really surprising to me the amount of reaction

coming out of the rams game for the sheer number of people who have declared that the season is over this team can't win anything there's no point there's no reason to move on. And I know we're all dramatic about football and we all overreact to football. I am certainly one to do that just as much as anybody else. But I also thought that maybe by now, maybe by Wednesday, as we turn the page to a very exciting Sunday night football game, we can take a little bit of a deep breath on what happened these last two weeks. Try to look at it in context that the Vikings were probably going to lose some games at some point during the 2024 NFL season. They were not likely to run the table. And I don't think that we need to say that the season is over or that the defense can't respond, but it will be a very good test

this week against Indianapolis to see how they do respond and how they do adjust. Because if Indianapolis does the same things to them as the last two teams, then I will be on the side of, all right, now it's time to react. Joe Flacco is a good enough quarterback to make the playoffs last year with the Browns. He's had one good game so far this year in three times that he's gotten on the field for Indianapolis. I respect Joe Flacco, but he's not Stafford. He is not golf at this point in his career.

And this is still a game where the Vikings defense at U.S. Bank Stadium should dominate. And I want to wait and see how it plays out over the next couple of weeks, especially this game, though. This is their toughest test to start talking about where this defense actually stands. Have they been figured out? Is the blueprint actually out there? This player's falling apart. This player is not good enough.

OK, OK. I mean, it's not a perfect defense, but sometimes I think we put the expectation. If you're not the 2017 Vikings, you're not the 85 bears, then you're just not any good at all. Defenses in 2024 are good. Some weeks and drop off other weeks. I don't know that there's any defense in the NFL this year. That's just annihilating everybody. Uh, and that nobody is scoring against any defense in the NFL. This is how it's going to go. And the Vikings have a lot of talent on offense. Oh, and TJ Hawkinson, I didn't mention that. Uh, Kevin O'Connell said, yeah, he's good to go. Yep. So

TJ Hawkinson will be back. They've got a lot of talent. They're going to have to outscore people in some games if they're going to be good. But I just thought that this loss to the Rams seemed to really hit people in a deep place. And maybe that's because everyone got so hyped up about five and oh, and started to declare them as a 14-win team, Super Bowl, here we come, and you started booking your trips to New Orleans for the Super Bowl. And then when you get hit with that disappointment of any loss, it's going to feel so much worse. But I think when you lose two games by this much, by really one score score in both games if you don't count the face mask that wasn't and two points against the Detroit Lions it's not time to be going this far and declaring the season over and getting into how long it's been since the Vikings went deep

in the playoffs and all those types of things that at the beginning of the season, I think we all kind of agreed, let's just see how this thing plays out. Maybe it'll be fun. Maybe it'll be interesting. Maybe Darnold will have one of those Jeff George type of years and we'll see how it goes or a case Keenum type of year. And we are somewhat in the midst of that still very much actually really in the midst of that with five and two and as well as Sam Darnold is playing. And so I thought that we were all kind of on the same page of how to approach the season. And then they get to a certain point. And when they have a hiccup, a bump in the road, then it's, you know what?

It's over. They can't win. I'm done. But that's odd to me too because if you've been watching the rest of the nfc the only team that is decidedly better than the vikings beat the vikings by two points everybody else is kind of neck and neck and i just think that vikings fans have a tendency and this is minnesota sports fans in general, to get really, really amped and then really, really disappointed when things happen because of how much disappointment

has happened in Minnesota sports and to the Minnesota Vikings over the years. And the roller coaster of an NFL season is what makes it such an interesting and entertaining journey. That's how I want to look at what just happened and also how they respond to it. What they learn from it may dictate how far this team is going to go. So I think that the reaction went farther than it should have for a lot of people because of what a gut punch it was after having a great start. And we never really accept the fact that defenses just don't do what they used to back in the day. If you had an unbelievable defense way back in the day, even the 2000 Ravens back in the nineties, you could shut down almost every

single team and sack their quarterback like crazy and win. How about that year that Jim McMahon made the playoffs for the Vikings averaging five yards per pass? The league has changed. It's a more efficient league than it was before. There's a lot of good quarterbacks still in the NFC that can move the ball. And, you know, I, I really think that, uh, you know, this is kind of how it works is sometimes you're going to have a team out scheme you or have a ton of talent and you have to match them offensively. And the Vikings didn't do that these last two weeks, but asking the defense to be the 2017 team, the league has even changed since 2017 quite a bit for how teams play. And it's much harder to be this complete shutdown, lockdown, destroy everybody type of defense. So their offense is going to have to step up if they're going to go anywhere because you can't just expect a defense who is still in the midst of the

building process. I think they have a lot of veteran players, but you know, they have not been a completed project from what we thought they were going to be next year with JJ McCarthy and the cap space and all that. This was cobbled together in a lot of ways. So they will have to be better offensively if they're going to make up for some of the shortcomings. Christian says, you keep saying by two points, it's two points at home. We need the one seed when we play at Detroit is at Detroit is going to be a worse outcome. I mean, yeah, it is two points at home and that's the one that you want to win from Detroit. Although they have gone to Ford Field and they've won at Ford Field before. I don't think that home field advantage is quite as much in the division as what it has been made to, but that Detroit team, we all agree, right? On the

Detroit team, we all agree that Detroit is the most completely constructed team in the entire NFL, top to bottom. Even without Aiden Hutchinson, they'll probably make a trade for a pass rusher or something. They're the best top to bottom team. And the Superbowl was likely always going to go through Detroit based on their roster and based on the preseason odds and everything else, the expectation for that team and to play them neck and neck to be one mistake away or to be one first down away with that team. I'm not looking at it and saying, wow, this team is screwed. That's my point. Should they have won the game? I thought so against Detroit, the opportunities were there to win that game. But if you're playing neck and neck with the team that is the deepest and best

constructed in the entire NFL. I'm not about to declare the season over when you lose and then not having any time to fix some of the weaknesses and going out to Los Angeles. I'm not saying these losses are good or like, yeah, no guys, nothing's wrong here. Nothing to see here. That's not what I'm saying. What happened versus the reaction? What happened in my mind was, okay, this is the NFL. You win five in a row with a certain strategy. The next teams are going to study that and they're going to figure it out. And they play great quarterbacks who can figure it out. So now this is the next phase of the season is to bounce back and not let this drag your season down.

And the schedule certainly opens up the door for them to be able to do that. What I'm saying is this is the, this is part of how it works for everybody all the time, except for the few rare teams in NFL history that go 15 and one like 98. Sadly, I have news for you. That season will likely never be repeated in the NFL by the Minnesota Vikings or almost any other team ever again. I mean, there's just too much

parody in the league. Nobody can come in like Randy Moss and just slaughter everybody. That's just not how the NFL works now. There have not been, I mean, what, since the Patriots, how many instances have there been of a team winning even 14 or more since the Patriots went undefeated? And again, that was with Randy Moss. Very few, right? Very few, if any, since then, it wasn't going to be that. It was going to be a season that had some ups and downs and against the Rams. I think we know what happened. They were able to copy the blueprint. Stafford had a really good day. Now they have to adjust. That's everybody's season. The Buffalo bills looked like they were down when they lost the Houston and Josh Allen went nine, nine for 30. The last couple of weeks, they fixed what ailed

them. They made a trade. Now they're great again. And now they're favorites for the Super Bowl again. And now Josh Allen's a favorite for being the MVP again. You can do this with almost any team. The Ravens are going to have to deal with whatever is going on in their defense if they want to be a Super Bowl team. The Lions got off to a slow offensive start this year. They had a bad loss to a mediocre Tampa Bay team. Philadelphia, we were leaving Philadelphia a little bit for dead earlier in the season,

and now they're back. San Francisco could bounce back. This is the ebb and flow of the NFL season. If they let what happened those last two weeks carry over, then I think we're talking about whether this season could go tumbling down if they beat the Indianapolis Colts and they are six and two in their first eight games and they've played. By the way, this team has played, according to pro football reference, the second most difficult schedule in the NFL. And that's not going to be the case the rest of the way. I think I saw a 10th in win percentage, but of course they're playing NFC North opponents outside of that teams that can be good or bad on a weekly basis and then very winnable

games coming up. So declaring anything about the season being over or players being busts or get rid of this guy or that guy. Okay. That to me seems like you got really, really amped up and then it rained on your parade a little bit, but that doesn't mean that the season has to be over. So we'll start to find that out.

All right, let me get to your questions here. James says, given the results against the last two potential playoff teams, what do you believe our potential playoff matchups? Oh, what do I believe is the potential playoff teams. What do you believe our potential playoff matchups? Oh, what do I believe is the potential playoff matchups? Well, of course, as of today, it would be against the Atlanta Falcons. I have a tough time believing that the Vikings

will win the NFC North because of the aforementioned Detroit Lions. They still could, but Detroit is going to have probably a pretty good second half of the season as long as Jared Goff stays healthy. The Green Bay Packers may run into a few more bumps, but I see the Packers and Vikings neck and neck in the NFC North. And where it gets interesting is in the NFC East because you have the Eagles, the commanders. I can't see more than one team from the South or the West making the playoffs. So my guess would be that the Vikings are going

on the road to face a division winner to start the playoffs, that they would go on the road to somewhere like Atlanta. I would have to look at a bracket to figure this out, but maybe whoever the NFC West team is that they will finish somewhere. What fourth, fifth is a four seed get a yeah. So fourth, fifth, sixth, I don't know that there'll be the seven seed that would kind of take quite a drop off, but maybe somewhere in the four or five and going on the road in that first week to try to win a playoff game. Yeah. I mean, you would absolutely prefer that they beat the lions and that they beat the Rams and that they were in first place and trying to win the division and getting that by it's a huge advantage. And if they can do it, then we'll find out in the next few weeks, what kind of role that they can get on. But I think if we're being realistic, it's probably that it's probably a four or five seed going on the road. And it would be really something if they went to Atlanta for that game,

that would be some kind of high entertainment. If it was a revenge game, Vikings and Kirk Cousins at Atlanta for the playoffs, but that's kind of how it's tracking right now. And if we go back to the beginning of the season and we think about where this team was and where we thought of them as a team in transition, I believe that I said the standard at the beginning of the season for success was going to Detroit in the final week with something to play for. And if you're going somewhere for a playoff game with Sam Darnold and with the team where it's at right now, that's an entertaining season where you've got a chance going into the playoffs to make something happen. And that's for where they are as a franchise, that's a good place.

It's not quite the same place you thought it was going into the game against Detroit. And maybe that's the hard thing to deal with at the moment, but things can still change. Sean says lots of talk about Turner's snap count lately. I wonder if it's time that Kwesi D'Affolmento or Kevin O'Connell instruct Flores to play him over Pat Jones. I feel like Flo only plays the young players when he's forced to. Every player is in a different spot. Now, I don't think that this is a situation where, I mean, Kevin O'Connell has the final say on everything because he's the head coach of the team, but I'm pretty sure that Brian Flores has full command of that defense. And Kweisi Adafomenta is, I think, doing a good job with this roster and

setting them up for the future with the salary cap, the trades, the opportunities to bring in free agents, all that stuff. But I would not want the general manager of the team trying to pull rank or step in and tell a coach who he's supposed to play. I am comfortable with the explanation at the moment for Dallas Turner snap counts. Eyebrows are raised. There isn't any question about that, but it doesn't seem like it's time yet to make any declarations on that or for coaches to start fighting with general managers of he's playing, he's not playing.

You need to do this or that because we're seven games into his career. Now, I did have a theory as I was doing a little more investigation last night on the statistics when it comes to the snap count. My theory about Dallas Turner and Patrick Jones and the difference between them is that Grenard is going to play almost every snap because he's a beast. He's just a great pass rusher. You're not taking him off the field. You're not taking him out of his position. So Grenard is locked in for almost every play. The other guy is Andrew Van Ginkle, who you can move around to different

places. But if he moves around to a different spot on the defense to get Turner on the field, he has to do Andrew Van Ginkle's job. And Van Ginkle has dropped back in coverage more than any other edge rusher in the entire NFL. So if he is filling in on a play for Van Ginkle, he has to be able to handle the coverage responsibilities and the potentially the run game responsibilities as well. Patrick Jones has dropped back one out of every 10 snaps into coverage so far this year when he's in, which is sort of about the same rate as Andrew Van Ginkle. So he's taking a lot of that type of role from Van Ginkle as an edge rusher when he comes in. And I think that there's more trust for Patrick Jones to be able to be in the right spot,

understand what he's supposed to do assignment-wise. And also, we can't take away from the fact that Jones started the season great and put on a show against San Francisco. It was the best game I've ever seen him play, which may have influenced his snap count staying higher. That's all part of it. And when teams are attacking the middle of the field, when teams are running successfully, it may just be harder to get

Dallas Turner out there, the short week and the preparation, all of those things could have played into it. That said Dallas Turner needs to play more and Patrick Jones needs to play less. And if that doesn't change, and that's why everything comes back to this theme with where the Vikings stand right now, is I'm patient on the two losses back to back if they take care of business in the next coming weeks. I'm patient on not saying Dallas Turner's a bust. I did all the research about the guys who are leading the NFL in sacks for the last three seasons, and a lot of them the NFL in sacks for the last three seasons. And a lot of them didn't have sacks right away. Trey Hendrickson, Khalil Mack, a top five draft

pick did not have a lot of sacks right away. And then the next year he became a beast. That off season is big. The first year of development is big. Harold Landry was a guy in Tennessee that they talked about. This guy's a bust. He's not very good. And then he took a big step forward. Even Daniil Hunter, Everson Griffin, those guys became stars. They developed over a couple of years. We don't have to freak out.

But if he's still not playing in week 13, week 14, and it's five snaps, okay, then we've got to talk about something because where is that development? That's what I want to see is the development come to fruition and Dallas Turner to get on the field more often. Uh, from the Pollock, I honestly don't think Quacey places much more value on mid to late picks than the undrafted free agents. And I'm all right with that. That might be true because he knows that they can spend on undrafted free agents. And if we think about the odds of someone succeeding as a fifth round draft pick versus someone succeeding as an undrafted free agent, it might not be that different. You are talking about, I don't have this right off the top of my head, but the 240th player or whatever,

199th player versus the 260th player, is that an enormous gap? And they've been able to get a lot of talent. And I think that Gabriel Murphy has talent for the future. I think that Dwight McClothern has talent for the future. They're developing, well, I don't know what the deal with Murphy is, but they're developing Dwight McClothern on a daily basis in practice. He's not in there playing either as a young player. He's developing as well. And you're right that there is a trend with that. Pace Jr. is playing as a young player, but he's really the only one. And he did have a lot of experience in college. I don't know if that played into it, or he's just a unique kind of dude in that position, or if he was just the best player

that they had. And then he turned out better than they thought at that spot. I'm not sure, but in this position, Dallas Turner is one of the youngest players in the league. I was looking at this yesterday. There's only a couple guys who are 21 years old on defense that are actually playing more than 50% of the snaps. People have asked me about Leatu Latu and Jared Verse. Those guys are 24. Those guys are three years older than Dallas Turner. So there's just different development curves going on all the time

for different players. But I do want to see more of him going forward. Let's see. Taylor says, KOC's inability to implement short passes is beyond concerning. The final play of the Rams game felt like the infamous fourth and eight against the Giants. Quarterback can't buy enough time for these long developing routes.

Over the last two weeks, that really has changed by the numbers. I wrote this in a story somewhere but the underneath stuff has been successful for them over the last two weeks and i would have i would have fully agreed with that statement against the jets uh but then it has changed and that doesn't mean they're not running guys downfield. It just means that there were more checkdowns. There were more underneath stuff, but penalties and sacks really hurt them. And then just not being on the field because the defense was on the field for the entire game. It felt like the Rams had a lot of long drives that kept them from really getting

a lot of chances to potentially score. They did a good job, in my opinion, against Detroit of throwing the ball underneath and Hawkinson changed, changes that dynamic entirely. There is a very difficult balance and O'Connell talked about this today. So O'Connell more or less agrees with what you're saying that you can't just hang on to push it down the field all the time, that you have to be smart about these decisions and avoid sacks. And that is where Hawkinson may come into the mix and be a big deal. But it is a very difficult thing to balance for a quarterback and a play caller. When you have a quarterback with an arm like that, who has done as well as he has on play action and pushing the

ball down the field, And he's so accurate throwing it down the field and he puts such great velocity on it. I mean, the touchdown to Jefferson down the sideline against the lions, just wow. Type of plays that they've been able to convert. And then you're saying, well, you know, maybe less of that. It's, it's, it's a mix that they have not found. And that has, I think, put Sam Darnold in some tough positions at times. There have been other times when I've watched back the film and I've thought, okay, I think he was supposed to go underneath on that one. He really tried to hang in there and force it into a spot, especially that interception against the lions where the check down was right there.

And there's two defenders over there. And the Sam Darnold decision-making is something that I think is always kind of going to be a battle. And it's one of the reasons that he hasn't been a starting quarterback. It doesn't make 50 or $60 million is because of that. So that's something that they're working their way through. But I don't know that they're ever going to get that exactly right. What they need is the game managing Sam Darnold from early in the beginning of the season. He's game managed a little bit better. And I think the way that he has played over these last two games was easily good enough to win. They just needed a stop from, from time to time. And we would have been talking about what a good game Sam Darnold played. If he plays very similarly

to the last two games with occasionally going downfield, getting rid of the ball for the most part. And I don't want to see him scrambling backwards and taking 12 yard losses on sacks anymore. Um, but usually that type of performance is going to win them the game. They got outscored, uh, the last two weeks. So I think there's an adjustment there, but I don't think O'Connell's ever going to say, let's completely take off the gas. Let's treat Sam Darnold like he's Jacoby Bursette and be throwing five yard passes all the time. It's an interesting dynamic with dealing with a guy who has that arm and receivers that are that good downfield with also getting the offense to get first down after first down.

Dan says, let's not forget Kweisi and KOCoc are looking for extensions they want to win this year would not be shocked to see another trade i don't know how much that plays into it uh maybe it does a little bit they do have contracts for next season so it's not like they're fired or they're here in the future it doesn't have to be quite that but i I think if you're Kweisi Adafo Mensah, what he has usually done is make decisions by where the evidence points him to as someone who is an analytics rooted type of person. I think that you make this decision of the trade deadline in part by just what your statistics are telling you. And this game could have an impact on that. The difference between six and two and five and three is pretty enormous. I mean, six and two with the next two opponents coming up and then Chicago that's beatable, you are driver's seat

at that point. Five and three, you feel like an average team that could go either way and you're maybe not as willing to do it. And then there's also the potential for a trade of the JC Horn idea, which I love so much, sending a first round pick to Carolina for JC Horn, giving him the extension, getting your shutdown corner for years to come. I've always liked that concept, the multi-year player. You guys love Dexter Lawrence. I don't think they're giving him away. Jeffrey Simmons, something like that. That deal doesn't really matter whether they're five and three or six and two. You just do that to get that guy on your team over multiple years. If there's another rental that may depend on whether they win this week or not, but the under

the radar type of numbers or the, uh, the under under i don't know what you call them the analytic i don't like to call them that because they sound complicated but the the numbers that point us toward whether a team is actually good or not like the dvoa or expected points added they say and and strength of schedule like they say good things about this team still that would be worth giving attention to the roster with a fifth round pick or another 2026 draft pick if they can add to the team and give themselves a better shot and i just cannot reiterate enough times that the nfc doesn't have another team outside of detroit that you are just like okay nfc's got five great teams. We're not one of them. Good night. It's more like, are you the third best team? Second best team in the NFC still somewhere in

that range? Well, if that's where you're at, then you should improve your roster and take a shot. George says under the radar issue is stopping running back. Jonathan Taylor Gibbs and William set the table for both of those quarterbacks last two weeks. Great observation, George. I totally agree. Taylor has been awesome this year. It does help that he's got a running quarterback and he won't this week, but definitely Jonathan Taylor could be an issue for this team. And I did want to see, as we look at how exposed were they on defense, I did want to see how do they play when they're facing a team that is ahead and who is running the ball against them or neck and neck in a game and they can still run the ball and Detroit ran it well and LA ran it

well. And if Indianapolis runs it well, then you're right. Then Joe Flacco at that point will have a chance to be able to cook on offense versus the Vikings because the running game can set him up so well for play actions and just getting off chunk yards. We saw the explosive play with Jameer Gibbs running for a touchdown. Well, Jonathan Taylor was that level of a prospect as well. And we've seen it at times throughout his career, what type of explosive plays he can still create by the numbers. He's one of the best running backs in the NFL. Once again, this year, it's a big factor in that, that is a legitimate, serious concern for me about the run defense, because I think that teams want to run at Jonathan Grenard.

He is so good at pass rushing. Can you wear him down? Can you force him to tackle all day? That's what I would be doing if I was facing off with this Vikings defense. And I expect that we will see that still from the Indianapolis Colts and they have to have an answer for that. Brett says, is it possible to have a run blocking lineman package and a pass blocking lineman package, just like we have for wide receivers and running backs? Both packages can do both. Well, number one, you want to avoid too many tells to the defense. So that one's difficult to do. If you're running at Ingram in there, every time you're going to hand the ball off and you're running Dalton Reisner in there.

Also subbing linemen is a lot of work. Uh, having a lineman at 300 pounds hustle from the sideline, screaming out there, trying to get into the huddle, getting him to play, then getting him up there, getting him set. I think that linemen also like to be in a rhythm in a game, play after play after play, rather than, hey, go sit on the sideline. I've never seen teams rotate linemen. There has to be a reason for that. Maybe it's something I can ask at some point to somebody, but I just think it's hard to do. You want to have the chemistry. You want to have the communication. I think that's probably why is that there's so much working together that if you are Cam Robinson and one play Blake

Brandel's in there and the next play Dalton Reiser's in there and the next play, right? I think it can be a little bit difficult to communicate and to get on the same page and to be consistent. And you also just don't want to give away what you're doing based on who's in the game. The Vikings kind of mess around with some of that. Uh, when it comes to Trent Shurfield, where Shurfield will mostly be in for runs, but every once in a while it's a play action but receivers they're they run all day they're track athletes it's not hard to get them off the sideline into the game getting running route and things like that i think it's a little tougher for

the big boys to do and it would really kind of mess with the operation but uh i i think that what they have to decide because i where you're going is probably the Ingram and Reisner issue. Although Ingram is not graded great this year as a run blocker, he's never really graded great. It's been okay, but not phenomenal at any point. But what you're really getting to is which sacrifice do you want to make? A lot of times in the NFL, because there's 32 teams and there's injuries like crazy and there's 17 games, teams have to decide how are we going to paint over this problem that we have? How do we mitigate our weaknesses is as important as how you take advantage of your strengths. And you have to ask yourself, would you rather have better pass protection up the

middle or would you rather have more physicality in the run game? I'm taking better pass protection up the middle all day. Kind of reminds me of the Brett Jones issue we ran into a few years ago where they kept playing Dakota Dozier because he could reach the linebackers or something in the run in the run plays. But then the pass protection breakdowns would blow up entire drives and games, and they just kept letting it happen. I would rather have a miscue that maybe Aaron Jones can make up for and get three or four yards than having the right guard position exploded and the quarterback getting sacked.

Mike says, I wonder if short of a Super Bowl, Kweisi Adafo-Mensah will ever get credit. He has done everything ownership has determined of him. Certainly might have liked to tear down like Poles did with the Bears. Right, yeah, I think when Kweisi Adafo-Mensah arrived here, he probably did want to tear it all down like Ryan Poles had the opportunity to. And then boy, Poles played that well to fill out his roster, to get Caleb Williams number one overall. And that's a promising team going forward within the parameters of what they were asked to do

and be in a competitive rebuild mode to have a five and two season right now with a journeyman quarterback who was a backup last year and have an opportunity to win the next few games and be right there in the playoff mix with the best teams in the NFC was largely a function of dealing with the salary cap and deciding when and which players to move on from and kind of taking their medicine a little bit last year with the adjustment of not having Thielen, not having Delvin Cook, none of those players, Zedarius Smith, even Delvin Tomlinson, none of the players that they've let walk have been difference makers for their teams outside of Daniil Hunter, which they replaced with Granada Van Ginkle. That was the trade-off they made there. But the older expensive players that they let walk and then replaced with younger,

and in some cases just as expensive, but players like Cashman and players like Grenard and Van Ginkle, multi-year contract players to be a part of the next winning window. That was a good job by the organization as a whole. And I think that the, one of the things is the obsession over the draft. I mean, people just absolutely love the NFL draft. And when it doesn't work out for your team, it's something that seems like no one can ever let it go. Odd though. I don't remember talking much about it in 2017 when the 2016 draft had gone bust because the Vikings were good. So this year it's been a discussion all the time, even though they're good.

It's a little bit different there. But as far as the way that they have operated as a team, drafting their future quarterback, moving on from an older expensive quarterback and having a chance in the future to spend as much as they need to they've proven that they can make trades and bring in difference making players I felt going into the season that they had put themselves in a really good position to compete for the future and nothing that's happened through five and two has changed my mind on that even Dallas Turner

not playing that many snaps which maybe we all just had too high of expectations for how many snaps he was going to be out there for. But the way that they've been able to play the market of undrafted free agents, regular free agents, the salary cap, the quarterback that they drafted, I think the organization is in a very good position to continue to compete this year and going forward. And that's what you were looking for when they hired Kweisi Adafo Mensah or what the ownership was looking for was compete every year, be in the mix every year, but also build towards something that's even better. Well, that's where JJ McCarthy will come in in the future and this

season was always going to be weird for us for you for me for everybody involved because jj mccarthy is traveling around with the team now and it's like yeah that's kind of the golden boy that's the guy that they really want in a quarterback but but Darnold is playing really well and is winning games with this team. So kind of don't look over there, uh, Sam Darnold, just focus on what you got to do. But that guy is actually the future of the franchise. We always knew that this year would be difficult to evaluate in a lot of ways because it was in some ways patched together with positions that they haven't been able to fill out yet. And that's because they have a lot of dead cap space remaining over from all those contract extensions for Kirk Cousins. So after that's off the books,

that changes the math with things. And then you could start taking advantage of that rookie quarterback contract. But also there's other teams coming too. And it's a tricky race. It's a very difficult job to do, to build a team without the ability to tank and go all the way to the bottom and draft at the top. There's not a ton of precedent for teams doing it. I mentioned Buffalo when they drafted Josh Allen was kind of the example of that, of when they had Tyrod Taylor and they moved on and they, they went to Josh Allen and that's what they're trying to do. And the year before, and the Kansas city was like this too, with Alex Smith, the years before Mahomes took over and Allen took over their teams made

the playoffs. The bills made the playoffs and were in a playoff game against Jacksonville in 2017 with Tyra Taylor. They lose that game. They move on to Josh Allen. The rest is history. Alex Smith is in a playoff game. They had a good season. Smith led the league in quarterback grading. They moved on. So this is not the first time this has ever happened and I think they've navigated it well. But there are, there will be challenges going forward. So evaluating this season was always going to be tricky for us. And the,

the, or I think about order all the time, if things happened in a different order, but it was the same result, what would that feel like if they won, lost one, lost, and then won the rest of the games and were five and two, it would be a very different discussion, but winning five and

then losing the way they did has kind of changed the vibe a little bit, but I haven't changed my view on where they stand long-term. Kyle says between defensive tackle or corner, what is your opinion on the biggest priority can i have both i would like both gosh that that is a hard question i think that priority versus opportunity are two different things i might go corner with both answers but there's definitely more opportunity for corner than there is defensive tackle. It's really, really difficult to rip offensive tackles away. I'm sorry, defensive tackles away from other teams. They are just very valuable and very important.

And guys who get after the passer teams pay them a ton of money look at aric armstead that guy got paid so much money hasn't done a whole heck of a lot he was banged up all the time he was hot and cold for san francisco and he was a big free agent calais campbell who i wouldn't mind seeing the vikings go after by the way that's a name that's been on my mind. Why not? Why would Calais Campbell stay with Miami? He pressures the quarterback. He's a good player.

They're struggling. They're probably not going to make the playoffs. That screams to me conditional 2027 pick or something. I don't know how far you could trade out if you're the Vikings, but that kind of rental player, there's not many options out there. Whereas in the cornerback market, I think there would be more. The dream trade for me has always been JC Horn. For weeks, I've been throwing that out there that I love that idea. Denzel Ward, I like that idea. Newsome, there's a few other players, DJ Reed, Nate Hobbs.

There's a bunch of guys who are in that discussion who could be really helpful for the Vikings. That is a little bit more likely in my mind than defensive tackle. Let's see. Kudat says, seems like offensive line benefits a lot from continuity. Do you think having a new left tackle will affect the decision to keep Ingram versus Reisner? Two changes in the same week, harder to pull off than one. That's a good point. Yeah, that's a good point. Reisner

has played with these guys before, but he hasn't played that position and continuity is a thing. I go back and forth on that though, because I do agree with you. Continuity is important. Communication is important, but it might be a lot easier to do at home they're on the road the next two weeks and i don't think that the jacksonville is a cauldron or something that's going to be difficult to play against but the offensive linemen have a much better chance of communicating with each other at home and if you're not doing it now when are you doing it are you waiting till another blow up from ingram or is it week 12 week 15 when do you're not doing it now, when are you doing it? Are you waiting till another blow up from Ingram or is it week 12, week 15? When do you plan on doing this?

I would rather just see the better player get in and play now and figure it out from there, even if there are some moments where they struggle to communicate with each other and have chemistry. The run blocking is going to be a problem if they play Reisner, but if you keep going this way, Darnold is going to take more shots up the middle and he's already, Robinson's a good pass blocker, but he's going to face more pressure from that side. And Robinson has had his health issues. So is he going to play 10 straight games too? If you're having a left tackle, who's not quite as good as Derrissaw or Questenberry going to play 10 straight games too? If you're having a left tackle who's not quite as good as Derrissaw

or Questenberry has to play another game or two, and at the right guard you're giving up pressures like crazy up the middle, that's too many weaknesses for me. Odell says, in your opinion, who's to blame more for this two-game losing streak, offense or the defense? I mean, it's really – there's a lot of factors. Also, does something have to be three to be a streak? I think like two is just a couple, a pair back to back. I think you got to be three to be a streak. If I'm, if I'm on a, I think of it, NBA jam terms. If you got to hit three shots in a row on NBA jam to be on

fire. So I don't, I don't, I would call it a back-to-back loss, but anyway, that's not the point. I'm just bringing up NBA jam, but, um, I think that it's, it is about 10 different factors. It's not one person. It's not the, you know, O'Connell or Flores or Cashman or Stafford or McVay or Ben Johnson or Jameer Gibbs or the offensive line of the lions, or it's a, it's a lot. I know whose fault it's not. Will Reichard, the kicker. It's not the kicker's fault. He's been great. Everybody else. It's a little sprinkle of everybody. Certain players looked like they needed a rest playing on Thursday. That's part of it is that you're not going to play on three days rest again, the rest of the season. And you have older players who need more recovery than that.

That's part of it. Limitations on defense. That's part of it. Cashman being out. Darnold taking a few key sacks or missing a throw here or there that could have maybe put Detroit away on third down and four. Play calling gets thrown out there as kind of this vague term of just play calling. But there have been a couple times where I felt maybe didn't have the finger on the pulse quite as well as it should have been. Aaron Jones being worn down, not having a backup running back in there. There's all these different factors, which has made it interesting to talk about.

I think some of the reaction has been too much, but I think that breaking down the losses has been like peeling back the layers, something to really think about what's going to be a problem going forward. What can they fix? What can they change? And a lot of these things they can fix,

and some of them they can't. If they get a corner at the deadline, that's really helpful to allow them maybe to play a little more man coverage and give Stephon Gilmore a break. He was so good in those first few games, but back-to-back games, playing every single snap, it's just a-back games playing every single snap. It's just a, it's just a lot the same with Harrison Smith. It's just a lot. So it was all sorts of different factors. And at the end of the day, they had a chance to win both games. No, they haven't been

blown out or even really had a game where they just were completely miserable. Um, so if they can fix a decent number of those things, then they can get back on track. And they're just not, even though it's Joe Flacco, they're just not playing another good quarterback for a little while. That's on the same level. Uh, Stafford is playing amazing football when he's got Puka Nakua and Cooper cup out there. He was in the playoffs last year with those guys. So you, you all, you also have to credit those teams for being good and having good players. And the Rams are a totally different team when they have Puka Nakua and Cooper cup. Uh, Richard says, uh, wonder if, uh, Manny will show some Colts defensive love tomorrow, right? Uh, tomorrow night, Manny Hill, as always,

we'll do his favorite five defense, or not just defensive, but favorite five Colts players ever. Dwight Freeney, Bob Sanders, pretty underrated. There's a lot of great, a lot of great Indianapolis Colts players. And you never know if Manny's going to go deep cuts or if he's going to go kind of chalk,

but it's a fun franchise to look back at their history and how middling they were at times. And then how unbelievably great they were for so long, how much they struggled to get that first Superbowl, uh, with Peyton Manning, really the, well, his only Superbowl, how they let Andrew Luck get banged up to the point where his career was more or less ruined. I mean, it's a fascinating franchise to look at. And you would probably, when we talk about the general manager, the head coach, who's running this team, I just kind of want to direct you over to the Indianapolis Colts to say, like, let's not forget that there's a team that looks like that whose

owner is kind of nuts and who does things like hires Jeff Saturday to coach them and who drafts a development quarterback who needs two to three years to sit and then plays them right away. And then he gets hurt and now he's benched which by the way a really good response and reaction by anthony richardson to uh being uh benched i thought his response was very mature and good today um but still like that that organization is just stuck stuck stuck for so long and even benching anth Richardson feels like still stuck. Earl says, let's just crown Detroit. Why don't we? Shaking my head. People always get mad when I give Detroit a ton of credit and they keep beating the Vikings.

What do you want me to do for you? They were in the NFC championship last year. They're a catch away from going to the Superbowl. They've got the strongest roster. Let's go back 2022. They smoked the Vikings 2023, two games in a row. They beat them this last game at us bank stadium. They beat them. If you're going to send me messages like that, your team's got to beat them once in its current version. They're the best. And I agree with K Mac here. The lions are the best top to bottom roster in the league. That's just a fact, dude. That's just a fact. I mean, I don't know what you want me to do about it. Uh, if the Vikings were in the NFC championship last year and beat the lions. This is four straight times. Then I

would say the Vikings were better. The facts are the facts. There's only so much I can do there, man. Uh, Ty says never really got amped about this season. Every good season since 98 is waiting for the other shoe to drop. I've never been disappointed in my expectation of disappointment. Yeah, you know, I don't like that attitude either because, okay, yeah, I mean, 1998 is like an exceptional season. It's the all-time gut punch. Although we do have a whole generation of people who didn't watch the game, who are now adult Vikings fans who will be voting.

So maybe we can move on from that. I think that the 1998, if you were born on the day of Gary Anderson's miss, you can rent a car today. So I don't think it has anything to do with now. I also don't think that any other season has anything to do with now. I don't think Blair Walsh does or Dante Culpepper's knee or Teddy Bridgewater's knee or Sam Bradford's knee or anybody else. I think that every season is its own thing and we should adjust accordingly to how we feel about it. And we have to keep in mind expectations, where the season fits within the team's roster build and their aim for the longterm, all those types of things. But this year, I think when they got to five and oh, and they were leading the league in

point differential, everybody had a right. I was not saying guys, the next shoe is going to drop. They're going to lose the next two. I didn't think that I thought they might lose to Detroit. I think I picked them if Aaron Jones was back, but it was very thin margin. And I thought they would really blast the Rams. That didn't happen. That's the NFL. 99% of the time, even when you're good, is that some weeks it doesn't work out and other weeks it does unless it's 98.

But 98 is an all-time great season. So everything immediately gets compared to that, but it is truly all-time great season so everything immediately gets compared to that but it is truly all-time and think about this the the most recent season the only great season i've covered which was 2017 the only great viking season since i got here they were two and two and at that point after four games i i think the vibe was probably the same it was this team can't go anywhere and you know that sort of thing you just don't know how it's going to play out my first season here they blew a 5-0 lead and missed the playoffs and my second season they were two and two and i thought the season was going nowhere, and they made the NFC championship. 2019, how about that?

That game in Chicago where then Diggs does the truth to all rumors. I think that dropped them to two and two. They finished 10 and six, but they didn't play starters the last game of the season. Then I thought they were going to get killed by New Orleans and that Zimmer and Spielman were going to be fired on the spot, and they beat the Saints. And then when they went to play the 49ers, I thought they could beat this team and they got killed. I don't know. I can't predict football. I don't know where this thing is going. This was supposed to be a year

to go. All right, let's just see. Maybe it'll be fun. Let's not lose the perspective on that because it starts to get more serious in or well if they trade a first round pick for a JC Horn or something then it's very serious and I'm not saying it's not a serious season they're 5-0 they should have very high expectations I think it was 17 of the last 20 teams to go 5-0 made the playoffs and the divisional round something like that whatever definitely the playoffs you go 5-0 you've raised the bar and we should evaluate it through. Are you a real serious type of team? But we also can't lose the perspective on letting this season play out because of where the team stands and maybe reality hit a little bit. And that was hard,

but I just don't think that you need to completely change your stance on this season based on the last two games, because there were so many factors. And if we're evaluating it through a championship caliber type of lens, they have still a lot of the numbers that say that DVOA is the one that I go back to where they're third in DVOA. Like they haven't totally just veered off, but I also think that we can, we can ride this rollercoaster knowing that not every season is going to be 1998 and go 15 and one.

Uh, Jason says, uh, are we going to root for the Packers against the lions on Sunday? Uh, you root for a tie. No, I think you do root for the Packers.

Yeah, that's got, it's uncomfortable for people, but I think you actually do root for the Green Bay Packers there. By the way, got to get in an ad read here. And if somebody has a fantasy question, I would love that. That would certainly help for the underdog fantasy read. So hang on, Let me silence my phone

real quick so I could tell you about us days at us cellular. It's back again, exclusive offers just for customers just to say thanks right now you can get $1,200 off any phone plus $400 off any tablet. Amazing, right? But my family is so excited about their new devices that they keep texting me during the show. They're all about us days deals like $1,200 off any phone, 400 off any tablet. Terms apply. Visit uscellular.com for details. Okay. Let's see. Earl says, uh, still have to play the games. Lions are not guaranteed to win the Super Bowl. I did not say that they did. I don't like how everyone is crowning the Lions. It's just the truth. It's just the facts, man. The Lions are the best team in the league right now. And if that changes, then we'll talk about it differently. But they just are. They're just the most complete team

in the NFL. What is people's deal with crowning stuff? Like, I don't understand, like using all the facts we have plus the most recent matchups against the Vikings, which the lions have won to make a statement about how good they are. That's I, I don't, I don't know what a crowning is. That's why I joke about it. Cause I don't even know what that's supposed to be. That's just what it is. They're the team to beat until they're not. But right now they are. Kudat says, how did Ty Chandler go from promising young back at the end of last year to unplayable? Even if he did not get better now, he is unplayable. Yeah, that's a good question. It is a good question. And I think that part of it is just the nature of coaches and how coaches are.

They're like this on offense and defense. Harrison Smith does not come off the field because Harrison Smith is the best player. And if they take out Harrison Smith to give him a rest and, you know, Theo Jackson or Jay Ward gives up a touchdown, they cannot live with themselves. They will be beside themselves. If that happens, if they were taking someone off the field, just to get them a break. And when it comes to Aaron Jones and having only 50 plays is part of this, but you're just in close games, not taking Aaron Jones off the field. He's just too good. It's one of the best

players in the NFL. And this is why they had to go get Cam Akers. But I think that what happened with Chandler is that he's been given every opportunity to do this, to learn what he needs to learn in KOC's offense. And it hasn't happened. The explosive plays haven't really been there. And the pass blocking has been problematic. The details have never really been shored up. And if you can't trust somebody to go out there and run your offense or catch a pitch, my gosh, that was just so tough for him. I know it's just a physical mistake, but you can't have that. If they score on that drive, it's a different game against the Jets and they don't give the Jets any chance to get back into it. If they have another, I don't remember exactly how it played out,

but if they have another drive that goes down and scores and you instead you're making Sam Darnold make a tackle on a run play. There's been a few pass rush problems where he's given up pressures. He's committed a holding. Like those are the small things that, you know, I looked at this before the season. Aaron Jones had not given up as many pressures in pass protection in the last five years as Ty Chandler did last year. Kevin O'Connell, what are you supposed to do there? Because the running backs and pass pro are big in this offense. So that's why Cam Akers is here. I think we'll see quite a bit of him going forward. Samuel says, I like the Cam Robinson trade. If they continue down this path, what is one or two defensive tackle names you would like

to trade for prior to the deadline? And what do we give up? Yeah. I mean, everybody's got the same top names, but, and you know, DJ Jones was one that was thrown out there from Denver, but he's now off the table because Denver's pretty decent. Even with a rookie quarterback, they're competing for a playoff spot there. Calais Campbell is at the top of my list. If he's healthy, played last week, if he's good to go, then he would be way up there for me.

And I would give up a fifth round draft pick for him as a rental conditional. Maybe I don't know if it's on sacks or whatever it might be a future draft pick. I don't know how much they have left at this point as far as can they trade. They got a conditional sixth back from Houston. Can you trade that for Calais Campbell? The prices are low, so they should be looking. There's not that many guys at defensive tackle for rentals. I also like Adam Butler though. He's not a pass rusher, but he is a beast. He is just a straight up beast. He is super strong. He's kind of a fire hydrant type guy. One of those two for a later round draft pick would be worth it to me.

Mike says, Matthew, I'm impressed with your knowledge of Vikings history. Since you've like, you've watched for your whole life since you're not from here. How did you go about getting up to speed when you came to Minnesota? Well, that was kind of a lifetime of watching football and studying football and NFL films is a lot to blame for that. Football cards, video games, magazines, newspaper. I mean, yeah, I'm fairly old, so I've been watching the NFL since 1994 or so was probably the first full year I remember.

So all of that, I've been paying attention to the Vikings since then, not to the point of being able to name every single cornerback on the 2001 team or something like that. That's more happened since I've been here, but it's a slow process. I mean, all of my friends here now cover the Vikings or are Vikings fans. So you learn a lot from that way. I had friends who talked to me a lot about some of the funny things of the past and history. And then I've researched, you know, going back farther, I watch old games all the time. I mean, this is what I do. I wouldn't be sitting here for two hours every night talking to you guys about this if I didn't really love it. So I put a lot of time into it because I enjoy it. I enjoy going back and watching a game

for the Vikings and the whoever, you know, Houston Texans from 2004 or something like that, you know, whatever game it might be. Indianapolis and Minnesota in 2004 was really a heck of a game. Dante Culpepper, Peyton Manning. I enjoy that. I like doing that in my free time. I do more of this. That's why some of you asked, how do you do these long chats? I I'm just talking about football, probably with people when I'm not doing this. So that's a big part of it. Uh, Jason, uh, the big question for Sunday is, uh, will Zimmer have a bounty on Kirk? Remember he holds grudges. I thought when they scheduled that game that Micah Parsons would be playing. And it's a lot different now with Micah Parsons, not playing Zimmer is going to throw the kitchen sink at Kirk cousins. You can guarantee that, but he just doesn't have the

weapons defensively that he would have had when we all thought oh man this is going to be put this one on the marquee this is going to be the most exciting game and just Dallas has not been on defense that level because they just don't have they don't have health they don't have their best player and there's no way to be anywhere near as dangerous as they were Atlanta's got a good chance to win that game though Dallas Dallas, their season is kind of over if they don't win against Atlanta. And I'm not really sure how good Atlanta is. They beat the bucks with no wide receivers. They had two wins that happened at the very last minute. The bucks have a horrendous defense. I mean, this is if you're Kirk, this is why you go there

because you know, you're not going to play anybody in that division and you're getting free wins. Uh, the bucks have become his lions, which is kind of funny, but I don't know who to pick in that game. I kind of think Dallas should bounce back. Atlanta's got a bad defense. I don't know. I don't know. Who do you root for Zimmer Kirk? That's an interesting one. Uh, Romaine says, uh, what can we expect from Addison on Sunday? Yeah, they're going to give him the ball. Yep. They're going to, they're going to get him the football. I think that that's something that we'll definitely see with the way KOC talked about, uh, getting the ball out quicker to some of the underneath routes. I think he's going to do, uh, to, to do that with, uh, Jordan Addison to get him going and try to focus

a lot on that. Um, just, you know, the ball needs to be in Addison's hands. He needs to be in rhythm catching the ball. He's been good in terms of his separation, his route running all that. And Darnold's got to find him. Uh, so I think that that should be an emphasis this weekend. It's not a bad thing. This is a very good wide receiver that needs to catch more passes. We tend to only worry about Jefferson's targets, and then, okay, all right, he's got 10 targets. We're okay.

Anybody else, who cares who gets the ball? But Addison has shown an ability to make contested catches, to get open downfield, to catch a 50-yard pass. He can do all those things. He has to be ready uh, he has to be ready, but that it should be an emphasis. Uh, Kudat says catching up on the stream, Matt is still shocked at crazy fan reaction to losses. Uh, well shocked is the wrong word. It's more of that. I found this one to be interesting. the reaction. I am not shocked that football fans are upset when their team loses a game.

But I also think that if a big part of what I'm doing here is talking with you guys, that your reactions to things that happen with the team are worth talking about for me. So why was it so upsetting that they lost to the rams in a way that seemed to push into the red panic meter slam the panic button the season's over when they dropped to five and two and even matt daniels kind of made a joke about that like it felt like they were uh two and five and it it has felt that way a lot um this week in chatting with you guys is it is it does feel like when I see people saying the season's over I'm like okay why is that why are we saying that why is the reaction what it is and that's what I'm parsing through I'm not I'm not shocked I cover

the Minnesota Vikings you have to do a lot to shock me don't make me go through all the crazy stuff that's happened through the years of covering this team i'm not shocked by anything i am interested in it though because we do these chats uh let's see expose says how's the process with jj mccarthy been with him in the building and the games have those mental reps been ongoing yep uh he is going to meetings he's meeting with kevin o'connell he's now at the games because he's back on his two legs and i saw him the other day and said hey congratulations on being out of your little wheelchair cart thing because i'm sure that has to drive a pro athlete absolutely insane so it seems like everything's coming along pretty well. And

they're doing things where they videotape on the helmet and practice of Sam Darnold and the audio. So he can watch it and listen to it and learn from Sam Darnold. I think that overall, it is a really good experience for him to be able to learn from Sam Darnold. I mean, Sam Darnold is a good NFL quarterback this year. He's a pro. He handles his business. He understands football really well. And this is a good guy to watch and also to learn from some of the things that Darnold does that aren't that great. Holding onto the football is one of them. Maybe getting the ball out to some areas a little bit quicker. You know, I just, I think that this experience will be overall a positive one for J.J. McCarthy. And now after seeing some of the other quarterbacks in the league fail, I believe in it even more.

And I think it would have been smart to keep McCarthy on the sideline the whole year. Even if every interception thrown by Darnold, we would have been calling for J.J. McCarthy. But I think patience is good here, and he is learning a ton from everything around him. The NFL ups and downs, seeing what a building is like at 5-0, seeing what a building is like at 0-2 in the last two weeks. Mike says to piggyback off the comment about polls playing perfectly and acquiring Williams, wouldn't you say that they completely lucked into that? If Young had done anything, they wouldn't have gotten Williams.

Yes and no. Think about this. If you are at a poker table, what is your goal? One of your goals at the poker table is to find the mark. Is it not? That is the job, is to find the mark. And what Ryan Poles was able to do is he found the mark. The mark was the Carolina Panthers. They were a team that was in disarray and a team whose owner was pushing for them to move up and take a quarterback no matter what. And so they took advantage of it. Yeah, they lucked out,

but did they, but did they really, I mean, look at the quarterbacks in this draft. Did they really, what if, I mean, even if Carolina was decent, what do they end up with JJ McCarthy? I mean, that's a pretty good quarterback prospect. So I think that it was really well plotted out from Chicago. They did luck out, but they also had a top 10 draft pick themselves. They were getting a quarterback this year. They knew how strong it was. You know, so, you know, I just think that it was really well played. And yes, it's luck to get the first pick,

but even if you got the second pick, that's Jaden Daniels. The third pick is Drake May. Michael Penix might be able to play, and then I think J.J. McCarthy can. So this could be one of those draft classes where everybody's good. It happened in 2020. It might be happening again. Let's see. So McCarthy is going to be Allen or Mahomes. Awesome. Well, there's lots of examples though. And you know, even when we talk about the draft and all

that stuff that people love to obsess over, how about the Los Angeles Rams that drafted a quarterback in Jared Goff years ago, and they went out and got Andrew Whitworth, Robert Woods, Sammy Watkins, a bunch of other players using the cap space and built a team that was really good. It's not that they didn't draft anybody, but they built a team through acquisitions that turned out to be excellent and went to the Super Bowl in 2018. And Goff didn't play a ton in that first year they had uh you know case keenum they weren't a very good team under jeff fisher but they were

a team that wasn't that far away either there's just there is a good amount of examples so far of teams in the last i don't know 10 years that have been able to draft a quarterback and build around that quarterback and the vikings have an able to draft a quarterback and build around that quarterback. And the Vikings have an opportunity to do the same, but in between they were still competitive and good. Like the bills were still competitive and then moved on to a different quarterback.

So to Kansas city, they're the most obvious examples. Dennis says, Cashman is a key person. We need to get back. There's no question about it it's just a totally different team uh that uh when they have blake cashman or when they don't um i'm not going to spend any time debating the draft thing this is a five and two team that's

one of the best in the nfc there's no there's's no reason to relitigate drafts. I will do that. You know what? I'll make an appointment with you guys. How about this? We can talk about the NFL draft the minute the Minnesota Vikings season is over. How about that? And we can talk about every single draft pick that Kweisi Adafomensa and the Vikings whole organization, by the way, makes draft picks. We can talk about it. Then, um, as of right now, Colts five and two playoff races. Those are the things that, uh, that should be concerned about. Now there's no, there's no reason to keep going back over and over and over again, over the same draft picks when your team is good enough to be one of the top three in its conference. There's no reason to be too concerned about a safety who didn't work out

when you found another safety who was a sixth-round pick from a couple years earlier. Or if whatever other draft pick didn't work out, if you found other guys who have filled these spots that have been good enough to put you in position to be a top defense, a good enough offense, I'm just not that concerned about it. It seems to be just a thing to be angry and throw around that every comment section you're going to find is just, this guy can't draft. So I'm not going to waste too much more time on that. Sean says, do you think that Kweisi Daffel-Mensah is thinking ahead acquiring Robinson as an insurance policy since 71 might not be ready for 2025? I know we need to tag him,

but better to have JJ protected. That's a tough one. I mean, let's see. He gets hurt in week seven. It's kind of probably a nine month type of injury. Could be back by the beginning of the season. And when you look at someone like Cam Robinson, he's the type that is going to go out to free agency and try to look for a huge contract, I would guess. Because there aren't that many left tackles, and even one who's just average overall should get attention from teams that are

uh you know struggling really badly at that position um that's where you're going to see cam robinson get attention in free agency i don't think he's going to get the biggest contract in the world but tagging it now tagging a tackle is, but they need to be because isn't it that the offensive line is all the same franchise tag prices or something. I forget how that works, but they need to be thinking a lot more about where that money's going to get spent for next year than that position. Unless something goes wrong with Derisaw's surgery or recovery, then it's a different story. But I think he should be back. And they can always have Walter Rouse develop to play a couple of weeks

to start the season, similar to how they just had to survive Johnny Munt and Josh Oliver. You're always doing that in the NFL, always. This guy's hurt. Somebody else has to play for a couple weeks. So I don't think that they'll try to keep Robinson around. This is more of a pure rental. Skoll Vikings says Detroit's a great team and the Vikings were tired without Cashman and had to deal with Puka and Cooper. Ben Johnson and McVay won. No big deal.

Adjust, get ready for Indy. This is an 11 win team. I mean, I can buy an 11 win team. Yeah, I can buy that this is an 11 win team. If, I can buy that. This is an 11 win team. If they lose this week, then I'll change my mind. Then I'll start to wonder, okay, are they going to make the playoffs or is this going to be a meltdown? If they beat Joe Flacco, which they should Flacco is okay, but this is not Stafford and knockoff. If they beat Joe Flacco, then they should be on track to get rolling in the same way that they were before when they were five and only now it's teams that are much worse than that. But there, there will be another letdown game or disappointed game along the way, but they need to make sure that's not

this week against the Colts or especially the next two weeks against two of the worst teams in the NFL. Uh, Ty says, can Ty Chandler, is this Ty bias? Ty, uh, have a resurgence and save his season? Or is he just the guy he's probably just the guy that the, the issue is that he is so fast. He is so quick and with the ball in his hands he always has a chance to create a big play so you don't want to see him just disappear entirely from the offense but i think that when you lose the trust of your coaches then it's hard to get back on the field. And that's why you go get cam acres. So probably just the guy at this point, I thought going into the season that it was possible. We would see more of a duo with Chandler, but that was up to him. It was really up to him to prove. And he wasn't able to prove that. So now they had to go get somebody else. Uh, David says I'm in a

much better frame of mind moving forward in the season than after last night. Um, I assume because of the trade and certainly hope we get secondary help in Calais Campbell, uh, and someone similar or both. Yeah. Um, so yeah, uh, I think if they continue to improve the roster with trades over the next week, next Tuesday is a trade deadline. Naturally, there will be a recap live stream chatting with you guys at the deadline or an emergency podcast if there's a big Vikings trade. Or if nothing happens, we'll still talk about that as well.

But I think that there is still moves to be made here. And getting Cam Robinson is a signal of that. It's a signal, hey, we're not just disappearing. We're not just giving up, that kind of thing, that they think that they can continue to fight. And I didn't really mention that about the vibe. But having been in the locker room today, talked to a handful of players and also

O'Connell, Sam Darnold, I just didn't feel a lot of tension. I didn't feel like this team is starting to panic or starting to think that they're coming apart at the seams. Now, again, maybe if they lose, then you will end up with that more, a lot more tension, a lot more guys who aren't happy. But as of right now, I think that this team does believe in themselves as still being a team that should be in the playoffs and still be good. So there doesn't seem to be any evidence of them feeling like, oh, we were frauds, especially with the Cam Robinson trade. Okay, a couple more questions.

I haven't eaten dinner yet, so I got to do that. Digital Plains Media says, what's your gut feeling on the level of confidence in this team after dropping two straight? Seemed like with the Zimmer regime, the players would take two straight losses pretty hard. Yeah, the vibe would definitely be different inside the building. It was way more tense. They also had a lot of pros though. They had a lot of guys who had been around for a while who kind of knew how to deal with that. And that team often scratched and clawed and then fell short at the very end. They had seasons where they started one and five and then almost made the playoffs and came short in a game. Or the 2018 season was kind of calamity. But you know, one thing that would happen with a Zimmer team is that there was so much stress throughout a season that by the time they got to the end, I think that they were emotionally taxed,

mentally taxed by so much drama and stress that was created by the environment. And some of it was not Zimmer's fault, but the overall environment of the Everson Griffin issue in 2018. And that team got back into the race, but eventually just seemed to run out of gas toward the end of the season. They also had to fire a coordinator and that's a lot of drama too. Just those things would add up over a season. And this is where KOC, uh, I think does a good job is that he doesn't let two losses in a row. And this is where KOC, uh, I, I think does a good job is that he doesn't let two losses in a row. And this locker room is not let it feel like it's five losses in a row. That's as

of right now, next Monday could be a different show. Uh, Sean, I agree with your take on Turner. It's hard to, um, to, to break it. Oh, it's a hard group to break in. Yeah. Defensive tackle or defensive ends, pass rushers, especially when they played. So, Oh, I see what. Oh, it's a hard group to break in. Yeah. Defensive tackle or defensive ends, pass rushers, especially when they played. So, Oh, I see what you mean. It's a hard group to break into when they have Van Ginkle and when they have Grenard. Yes. Dallas Turner. I had him playing more being more productive. So the depth is good. Yeah. I think that as, as time goes forward, that we'll see more,

we will see more of Dallas Turner, and then we'll be able to decide where we feel like he is going into year two. But I just don't want to decide yet. Uh, scope says, I think it's more Darisaw related. Yeah, that's right. No, that's right. The Darisaw injury was really, really crushing. Yeah. Yep. It was really, really hard for, I think everybody to take because there are saw is such a, such a good player and, and a person who just does his job all the time. There's never anything, uh, with him that is dramatic or that he struggles with anything, or he's not out there in the media or anything else. Like he's a very, like go about your business type of guy, very calm and cool and just does

his job. And so he's one of the most likable guys that, uh, is on this Minnesota Vikings team to see him get hurt. And that was crushing, I think, for everybody. All right. Let me get one more question here. Mike says, given the reasonable non-panic moves made so far, I only see one deadline move, a corner. Yeah, I could definitely see that. Yep. I could definitely see a corner. That would be at the top of my list.

I think I would have that ahead of defensive tackle corner because they need just someone to rotate that they, that they believe in. They don't like Evans. Clearly Morrow is maybe not what he used to be as a reasonable starter for some other teams. Can you get somebody who's a difference maker? And then the question is how much are you able to give up? How much are you willing to give up? If it's Denzel Ward, well, give up that first. If it's JC Horn, give up that first. If it's not, then maybe a fifth gets it done

because the prices are so low around the NFL. I will be very interested to see. So tomorrow night, myself and Manny Hill will be back here. Thanks, everybody. Great, great evening of discussion tonight. Really appreciate that. So there will be more that we glean from the Minnesota Vikings out of TCO performance center tomorrow. And then we start to get ready for the game, a hardcore preview with Andrew Kramer. Um, lots, lots, lots still to come. So thank you again so much, everybody for watching slash listening, and we will see you tomorrow. Football.