Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Can the cornerback room actually be...good? A final Fans Only podcast before camp

Episode Date: July 24, 2023

Matthew Coller answers Vikings fan questions, starting with whether the Vikings can have a better secondary than 2020 and then a lot of talk about the team's wide receiver room, offensive line and much more... Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

🎵 Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here. And how about this for coincidental timing? I am recording this episode for the last time inside my old house before I move into a new house in which we have already started building the new podcast studios. So if you are one of those folks who watches on YouTube and you have seen me sitting in an empty gray room for the last number of weeks, well, you're going to see the sexy new studio very, very soon. And if you've been listening to the empty room echo, well, hopefully there will be no more of that.

I've done audio tests already. The audio will be improved. I am in a space that, um, does not echo off the walls like it does here. So it's, uh, I think it's going to be quite an upgrade for everybody who watches and everybody who listens. And certainly for me as well. And I am doing that as the Minnesota Vikings are arriving at training camp at TCO Performance Center. So there's your timing. And I'm hoped to be entirely moved in before I'm covering camp every single day. So that's the goal.

And we'll see how that goes. But very, very excited to get out for the first practice on Wednesday. Kweisi Adafomensa, Kevin O'Connell are set to talk on Tuesday. And boy, are there a lot of questions to be answered. And also, so if you're listening to this on Monday at some point, Monday night, the plan is for us to do a training camp special, a couple hours live on YouTube. And of course, it'll be posted to the podcast feed as well, in which Jonathan Harrison is going to ask me all the burning questions from training camp,

some of which may possibly be answered on the first day. It's altogether possible that Kweisi Adafomensa goes to the lectern and says, well, guys, welcome to camp. Oh, by the way, here's Daniil Hunter with his new contract. I don't know if that's going to be the case. Historically, that has happened before where we've gotten extensions on the first day of training camp. But I don't know if it is going to happen this time. The Daniil Hunter situation seems like it could play out for some time. And the same goes for Justin Jefferson.

But at least we know from what Jefferson said that he will be attending camp. He isn't going to sit out training camp as he waits for a new contract extension. And TJ Hawkinson, he's just chilling. He seems totally fine with what's going on. Hawkinson was at minicamp at OTAs, rolling along as usual, no drama from him. So that's kind of at the very top of things is just from the first day. Are we going to get any surprises of like, Oh, here is a contract extension that I don't know. And then Wednesday we get to see where everybody starts first team, second team, and it'll be a few days before the pads come on. And then we really get rolling. But I am excited for news, for opportunities to write.

Lots of fun feature ideas. The other day, I opened a file and just wrote down like 20 ideas that I have. And hopefully, it will benefit all of you. And last year, I think a lot of you liked when I would edit some of the clips from the press conferences in, from the audio that I gather from press conferences out there and sometimes one on ones. But usually the press conference audio was a little easier to work with for the podcast feed and then react to some of the things that were said. So if you guys like that, I will do that again and maybe start with, you know, just start right off the bat there, but planning a reaction to everything here on the show that Kweisi Daufel-Mensah and Kevin O'Connell

say on Tuesday, Will Raggetts is going to join for that. And it is time folks, we are off and running. It has felt like an extremely long off season. It always does. But last year, because of the coaching search, it had a different feel to it. It was almost like we went right from the coaching search into everything else. And then bang, there was training camp. This time around, it's been a little weird to see a lot of the names and the faces that have been here for so long leave. This will be the first training camp I ever cover without Delvin Cook, without Eric Kendricks, without Adam Thielen. It's going to be a little bit strange, but lots of opportunities on the

field for everybody. So to get us a little bit prepared for this, I put it out there as always for fans only questions for training camp and so forth. And again, as always, tons of response from all of you. You can go to purpleinsider.com. You can DM me on Twitter, which apparently is going to change its name. I'm still going to call it Twitter on the show. So that's what I mean if I say Twitter, if it changes its name, maybe it won't. Maybe it's just a joke. I don't know. Who knows? But purpleinsider.com, go to the contact us. You can always send a question during training camp or again on Twitter. We've also gotten the Purple Insider newsletter, a chat function as well.

And a lot of times I'll put something out there and say, hey guys, what's going on? What's on your minds? Give me some questions and that sort of thing. And anyone who's in the Purple Insider chat on the newsletter, which again, purpleinsider.com, you can find it there, always to the front of the list. So make sure you check that out, sign up even for free, and you can still be a part of

the chat. All right, let's get to your questions. First one comes from Jake. I like throwing numbers at the cornerback room, but talk me into this working better than 2020. We went 0 for 6 with those young corners. Talk me into two or three hits this time around. Yeah, well, I mean, I guess the first part of talking you into that is simply to say they're not the same people. They're different players. They're different human beings. It's a different situation. It's kind of like saying, talk me into the next quarterback not being Christian Ponder. Well, that begins with the fact that he's not actually Christian Ponder. This is not Cam Dantzler. It's not Jeff Gladney. It's not Chris Boyd. It's not whoever else. This is a whole new group of people. Number one, I would say that 0 for 6, yeah, well, I mean,

Byron Murphy can play. So you're at least not going 0 for 6 unless there's an injury or something like that, which you can never really anticipate. Byron Murphy, I don't think has been a star so far in his career in Arizona, but he has been a solid player. And year in and year out, by his PFF grades, they've been decent. By some of the numbers, it's been a little more up and down. But I think if you look when he's had a consistent role in the slot, especially go back to 2021, he put up some of his best numbers there and under Brian Flores, I think he's a really good fit to be aggressive out of the slot. You know, come on blitzes play a part in the run game. He's a good tackler. I think that's going to fit for him pretty well. And it's going to be important because the Vikings have not had anything good at the nickel position since,

I mean, 2019 Mackenzie Alexander was pretty good, but 2021 Mackenzie Alexander was not good. And 2022 Chandon Sullivan is to be forgotten. I mean, he gave up the most receptions into his coverage of any nickel corner in the entire NFL. So it can't be worse than that. But you want a comparison to 2020. And yeah, I mean, Jeff Gladney came in as a highly touted rookie, and it just never came to fruition. He had a couple of flashes that year, a lot of struggles. Cam Dantzler, same thing, flashes, struggles. But this year with Caleb Evans and Andrew Booth Jr.,

they have already played a year in the NFL. They didn't play the whole year, but they've already had an entire offseason to prepare their bodies to play. So it's not rookies like it was with Dantzler and with Jeff Gladney. So that's an immediate difference as well. Is it likely that both of those guys become very good? Not really, but one out of two is possible. And I think if I was leaning right now, I would probably say before camp, before seeing anything else, I would say a Caleb Evans looks like the guy who's ready to emerge as a starting cornerback

in the league more so than Andrew Booth Jr. They drafted Makai Blackman for a reason. They seem to really like what they saw from him and he's a mature player. This is another difference as well. Gladney and Dantzler, just because of how circumstances have worked out in football, COVID, guys taking extra years, transferring and things like that. Blackman's just older. He's just more mature than they were coming out. And that could also play a role in this quickly coming together. And as far as the whole secondary, I mean, I guess you could include the safeties as well. I think we've already seen Cam Bynum be an NFL caliber player and Josh Metellus. I'm very interested to see if he comes up with some sort of role in this defense. Like it kind of looked

like during mini camp, uh, Lewis seen no guarantees, but I do think it's a different group. It's a group with, I mean, I don't know, is it more talent? Is it equal talent? But a little more experience than 2020. And that might help quite a bit in comparison to what we saw from 2020. Now, the bad side of that is that if all those things that I tried to talk you into don't come to fruition, then it is back to square one. And we are going to be scratching our heads. I went through this and I can't remember the number, but the number of different corners that they have had over the last three seasons is ridiculous for guys who have started at least one game.

And I think that they are really searching through the draft here in these last two drafts, taking three corners within the first four rounds. I think that's, I agree with you. That's the right way to go. And all they have to do is hit on a couple. And then after that, as we go forward, then you can start looking to fill it in more in free agency. But if, you know, Byron Murphy hits, you only need really one more guy to feel like you're sort of going in the right direction. You have something to build on. And that was a major benefit of Byron Murphy, by the way, is that he's 25.

So if you hit on him, you feel like you've got a guy for years going forward and not just like, you know, always a veteran. So maybe he'll be good for a year or two. This could be a long-term relationship with him if he ends up turning out to be good. I don't know that I completely talked you into it, but I think I did okay. And then we'll see. Then it's up to them to see how that one turns out. This next one comes from Rambo. I enjoy using mock draftable to look at spider charts for different players. You're my kind of guy, Rambo. I do the same thing. Mock draftable, what it is, and the spider charts you refer to is just a collection of every player's combine scores. So you've got their whole, and then the percentile where they rank.

So for example, if you run a four, three as a running back, you probably rank in the 97th percentile of speed. And it does that for every single one versus all the other people who do the combine at that position. They compare it just by position. So if you're an offensive tackle and you're 300 pounds, but you're probably only in like the 20th percentile of offensive tackles, even if you are one of the heavier players in the league, does that make sense? So then they put it all in a nice cute little chart. And if you go to Cam Newton's chart, it's all filled in basically, because he is an athletic specimen. If you go to Jordan Addison's chart, it'll be less impressive, especially in the height and weight. In fact, I can pull this up and get exactly where Jordan

Addison ranked percentile wise. This is why it's fun. And usually we only use it around draft time. So I haven't pulled it up in a little bit, but I'll take a look. Where did he rank percentile wise? As far as height, the 26th percentile and weight, the third percentile and hand size ninth percentile. So this is what Rambo is referring to is that the larger numbers for percentiles are better. And those are some very, very low numbers. But that's just his size. So with receivers, and I'll get to the rest of the question in a second, but with receivers, size has mattered only to an extent. There's sort of a, you must be this tall to get on the ride. Historically, that could change with the way teams play now. Usually Jordan Addison, guys like him have been

a little too small to really succeed in this league. But only by a shade. I mean, 5'11", usually like 180, 185. I mean, someone like Stefan Diggs is over 190 and he kind of wants to be a comparison to Stefan Diggs. So anyway, back to Rambo's question. I came across Jordan Addison's profile and his closest comp was DD Westbrook. Should I be concerned? Well, I agree with what Kwesi Adafo Mensah said at the NFL draft time. When did he say it? Was it before the draft? I think it was before the draft. He was asked about the wide it? Was it before the draft? I think it was before the draft. He was asked about the wide receivers and the size of the wide receivers. And he basically said, look, no one really knows because all these guys are so small, but they're also so talented. And

we have first round grades on some of these guys. I mean, I'm paraphrasing here. He didn't say we have first round grades, but he was saying like, we're going to find out if the height and weight is an issue because this is kind of unprecedented for the league to be drafting guys this high that, you know, don't have the usual specs and the usual standards. If you watch the tape of Jordan Addison or Zay Flowers, you can't help but come away being very impressed by them and thinking that their first round talents, their accomplishments and their talent certainly is reflective of that. But history isn't that kind to wide receivers. And that's what you mentioned, thinking about D.D. Westbrook.

And one of D.D. Westbrook's problems was just the size. He got banged up a lot. And I think it was pretty easy for opposing defenders to slow him down. He did have some moments in the league, but if Jordan Addison has DD Westbrook's career, that's a pretty big disappointment. I would say, I think that it comes down to how well they work around it and how well he figures out how to make up for it.

So think about it this way, like Steph Curry, one of the things that he came out with not calling Jordan Addison, the next Steph Curry of football. OK, so don't be weird about it. But just think about this. When Steph Curry came out in the NBA draft, if you go back and look, the criticisms of Curry were that he was too slender, too skinny, didn't have enough muscle. They thought he would get hurt. They thought he would get pushed around the NBA.

And that was very logical. That was very logical because history, again, was not that kind to guys with his size. But what Steph Curry was able to do is use his dribbling ability, his shiftiness, his quickness, and his ability to make shots in the faces of seven foot players somehow by, I don't know, fadeaways, magic, voodoo, I don't know, but he's able to do it, right? And he's always been that size, which is kind of a thing you usually say about short people, like, hey, if they've succeeded already at this level, that means that they've found ways to do it. So that's the point about Jordan Addison is he's already had to find ways to do it. And so have his coaches, his coaches have had to put him in the slot. If he's trying to run a go route from the outside, outside the numbers, like a Randy Moss, well, that's probably not going to work out, but can you run a lot of different routes in the

middle of the field and get open and be an impact player. I think that his height and weight probably restrict him from being an all-time great receiver. We just really don't see many all-time greats at this kind of size, but it probably doesn't restrict him from being a really good wide receiver, really effective and a partner for Justin Jefferson that can get a lot of man-to-man coverage. And as long as you can of man-to-man coverage. And as long as you can beat man-to-man, Adam Thielen said this one time about succeeding as a receiver. He said, what it basically comes down to is, can you beat the guy across from you?

I mean, of course you need to master the offense and everything else, but can you win one-on-one coverage over and over and over and over again? And at least that's Jordan Addison's forte. We cannot guarantee that he's going to figure out all the adjustments that need to be made, but at least the way that they drafted was a player that thrives in those type of situations and that they kind of know the playbook for how this is going to work if it's going to work. And that's with him as a slot wide receiver. And I've been talking about, you know, the Addison versus Osborne and kind of leaning toward Osborne having more catches, but the scenario where Addison has more catches is just

playing in the slot and getting more targets, getting more looks because, you know, Justin Jefferson's taken up so much space and Addison's open in the middle of the field. So, you know, I wouldn't compare it just based on spider charts. You know, I do think that Addison is a better prospect than Westbrook. It's hard to compare because Westbrook was quite a talent coming out, but there were some off-field things that I think made him drop. But it is rare to see someone drafted this high, and this will be a test case for a guy of this size who has the tape, but probably can't. I mean, when you look at his frame, probably can't get much bigger.

If he can get to 180, that's probably a victory. So it will be very interesting. It will be very interesting. I'm not going to question the draft pick if it doesn't work out because of his size, because I thought it was the right thing to do at the time. But that will be the second guess. If it doesn't work out, that will be the second guess was, hey, this was the guy who was as small as any receiver I've ever seen. And you still put a first round grade on him. So we will get our first impressions pretty fast about Jordan Addison. All right. Next question comes from Rick. Any idea why it seems like every media outlet jumps through hoops to praise the 49ers for

everything? Yes, I do. I do have an idea of why they do that. That is because they have won a bleep ton of football games without a great quarterback. And look, I think Jimmy G probably deserves more credit than he gets, or maybe so many people say that that he does. I don't know. Underrated is a bizarre concept these days. But Jimmy Garoppolo, Brock Purdy, you know, when you can do that and you can go to the NFC Championship game a couple times, go to a Super Bowl because your roster is built so well and your offensive system is soific, and you've drafted, wait for it, receivers like Brandon Aiyuk, Debo Samuel, Hai, you get a hit on George Kittle, you sign Trent Williams. I mean, my gracious, it is a good football team. And the reason why people are hesitant to pick against the 49ers and say they're going to fall off is just because of what we saw last year. I mean, they were so good and the roster didn't change. They did lose to Miko Ryan's.

I do think it's possible that Seattle wins this division and that San Francisco falls off because they just never figured this out, but do they deserve the benefit of the doubt? Yeah, man, they do because it seems like anybody who they put in there is able to thrive at quarterback if they could just get rid of the ball fairly quickly and that's what Brock Purdy was able to do make a handful of plays get it into the receiver's hands and you've got something and they have a great defensive roster we'll see how their defensive system goes but I mean when you have as much success as them over the last, what, four or five years and not have a Patrick Mahomes or a Josh Allen or a Joe Burrow, yeah, you do get the benefit

of the doubt quite often. I mean, it is altogether possible that they could kind of have a Vikings thing happen here where you have a number one defense and then it's hard to repeat it. And then you slip off a little bit and you either just barely make the playoffs or miss the playoffs. I could see it. I could see it. So if you're saying that that's like your hot take going into the season, I'm behind it. I think it's a decent hot take if that's what you're going for. But I also understand that priors when it comes to media analysis and probably gambling as well. But media analysis definitely matter a lot. Like reputations matter a lot. And we've seen this. They can make mistakes

like Delvin cook. I mean, they, the media, uh, outside of Minnesota kind of lost their minds over cutting Delvin cook on reputation, not on actual performance from last season. So they can be wrong. And so if that's a take that you're rolling with into the season, go for it. I'm not going to fight you on that one, but that's still a pretty darn good team and a pretty darn good system to roll into a season with, even if you have some uncertainty at quarterback. Next question from Thomas. In evaluating position battles and the team in general, do you believe that joint practices will offer you better insight

than preseason games? Yeah. Yep. No question about it. Yeah. Because the starters are going to play, and we're going to see who they actually put out there and who they want to evaluate, as opposed to the preseason games,

which Kevin O'Connell just treated as totally meaningless last year. I mean, if a guy like T.Y. McGill, does everybody remember T.Y. McGill? Who doesn't? Everyone remembers T.Y. McGill and his big preseason game, right? No, maybe not. Okay. Well, last year, if you weren't paying attention to the preseason game, which I don't blame you if you were like in your cabin or have a life or something. And T.Y. McGill got like three sacks. He was a defensive tackle. And he just, you know, destroyed the 49ers,

who signed him, of course, because if you, yeah, you know how that works. If you do really well in a game against a team, they'll sign you. But they cut him anyway. I mean, it was like one of the best preseason games I've ever seen anyone add. And they're like, I don't care. It doesn't matter you. But they cut him anyway. I mean, it was like one of the best preseason games I've ever seen anyone had. And they're like, I don't care. It doesn't matter. And so they cut him. And if that doesn't matter, then nothing matters when it comes to these

preseason games. I mean, maybe they like, I don't know, Kellen Mond could have given himself a chance to stay on the team in some capacity if he had been great. But even then, he was bad in practice, and that's where they're mostly judging it. These joint practices are intense, and this is why players in general don't love them. They are intense. And I remember Joe Thomas on his podcast before he went off and did many other things. He started a podcast. It's kind of like ahead of the game with players doing podcasts. And he was saying that he thought the players should get paid extra for joint practices because there's so much more physical than just your regular practice. So I think, yeah, in my

experience, I've been able to tell a lot from those, especially just how they're using guys, because it is somewhat who performs for sure, but also just how they're using guys, because it is somewhat who performs for sure, but also just how they're being used. Who's getting those reps because in a day-to-day in practice that can change. Somebody could be a little banged up, but they're not really saying that he's banged up. They don't have to put out injury reports. And so you go, Oh, Oh, look at that guy. He's getting first team reps. And then we all write it. But then the next day, it just goes right back to normal. Well, in those joint practices, they really want to get a look at this guy, that guy, this position battle, that position battle. And it's not always who makes the most catches is automatically going to make the team. But I do think it is more insightful just

because Kevin O'Connell does not seem to care about these preseason games. And I respect that as a, as a long banger of the drum of do not play anybody in these preseason games. A little bit is the, that reap what you sow sort of thing like, oh yeah, now I have to cover these preseason games that don't mean anything.

At least with Mike Zimmer, they did. I think he took them very seriously with these preseason games that don't mean anything. At least with Mike Zimmer, they did. I think he took them very seriously with those preseason games. So from a coverage perspective, we have to be a little more, or I guess I should say a little less reactionary to them, a little less shuffling depth charts or 53 projections based on preseason games. Because in the past, we could with Zimmer, and it would be right a lot of times, but now that's probably not the case. So anyway, to your point, yes, those joint practices

will be a big deal and keep your eye out for reactions to those right here. Um, this question comes from Lancer is the battle for the number two wide receiver a done deal with Addison, the de facto starter, assuming KJ Osborne number three, or does a guy like Jalen Naylor get a shot? Not decided at all. No, I don't think it's decided that Addison's number two. And I don't think it's decided that Addison's number three. I mean, honestly, this is what we've seen with rookies before. Every time when you draft a guy, you get super excited about him because you drafted him, and you watch his highlight tape,

and you fall in love with him, and you buy his jersey, and you get his name tattooed on your chest, and then you go to training camp and find out if he can play or not. I mean, I've always felt this way three weeks into camp. I will start to be able to tell you if Jordan Addison can play or not three to four weeks into training camp. How long is camp? Is it even four weeks long? Three weeks into camp. And that's what Mike Zimmer said. And that's, I will take that with me forever. Cause I asked that specifically to Zimmer one time, like, how do you know when

you draft a guy that he's got what it takes, that he's got like mentally, physically, is he going to be able to handle the grind of training camp in the NFL? And he said, not until I see him in training camp for a little while, the pads come on, everything else. And you really see how they match up against NFL talent. It's altogether possible that Jordan Addison doesn't. I don't think it's likely that he doesn't because he is so talented, but it's possible.

So nothing is settled. That's why this camp is great because nothing is settled. I mean, how often have we ever been able to say that going into training camp? I mean, right now I would put KJ Osborne as wide receiver two and Addison three and Jalen Naylor four. But if you told me that it was Jalen Naylor wide receiver three, along with Osborne, I mean, I think Osborne can't really lose his job because he's proven to be effective and has great chemistry with Kirk Cousins. But if you told me that Addison was not even out there for the first rep of the season, that it was Jalen Naylor wide receiver three, I wouldn't be shocked because it seemed like Naylor picked up the offense last year pretty well, at least according to Wes Phillips.

So yeah, I don't know. We'll see how it all plays out, but it's definitely, there's nothing de facto about this thing. And I do think that Jalen Naylor is in this mix, but also he's not locked in his wide receiver for either. They've got a whole group of people. Brandon Powell, wide receiver, who's kind of been around for a long time, played for the Rams last year. And then a bunch of guys, Lucky Jackson, Thayer Thomas. You're going to learn these names as we go along, but wide open, baby. Should be pretty fun. Next question comes from Low Energy Ben. Should I give a low energy

answer for Low Energy Ben?, what receivers not named Jefferson? Oh, this, this plays perfectly. What receivers not named Jefferson, Addison, Osborne, and Naylor make the team? I see those four as locks. Yeah, this is a great question. So I was just trying to put together a 53 or I'm sorry, I'm supposed to do low energy. So I was just trying to put together a 53 today of wide receiver. Okay, I'm sorry. This is that's too much. But I did write a little bit about the wide receivers and how open that camp battle is. And I'll kind of pull up my notes here to take a look at it real quick.

Let me see. So there's a bunch of dudes, though. There's a bunch of guys though. There's a bunch of guys who are fighting for spots. And the three that are the most likely for wide receiver five are Brandon Powell, Jalen Rager, and Tristan Jackson. Tristan Jackson last year made the team over Amir Smith-Marset. Some people were upset, but Jackson outplayed him in training camp and then had a good mini camp, which may bode well for him getting a chance to be wide receiver five or wide receiver six. They also probably want a punt returner though. And clearly Matt Daniels liked Jalen Rager when they acquired him. Did

he like what he saw last year? Might be a different question because they did bring in Brandon Powell, who's a proven part returner. So that I think that's a battle that will be solved in the part returner. And then they only kept five receivers last year. Do they keep six this year? I don't know if they will. I'm kind of thinking that they're going to keep five, but I'll run down the list of all the dudes and everything I know about them for you.

High energy. Matt is going to run down this whole list. Okay. Thayer Thomas is a former walk-on from NC state who caught 215 passes over five years. Also an MLB draft pick who threw some passes trick plays. Kevin O'Connell likes them. Doesn't execute them very well, but he does like them. So that's one from NC State. Lucky Jackson was an XFL guy. You know that this show will be definitely on the Lucky Jackson train if he does anything. He played really well in the XFL, 536 yards, 36 catches there for the DC defenders. Malik Knowles was a big play kick returner for Kansas state. Also averaged 15 yards a catch, kind of a deep threat. Garrett Mogg is a local guy, North Dakota,

and he's from Invergrove Heights. A huge guy, six foot four, 210 pounds, just a dominant player in college. And then let's see, who is the, oh, Cephas Johnson. Cephas Johnson's probably not making the team. He's a quarterback who's transitioning to wide receiver, but could be a practice squad guy. If they're keeping six, that is a heck of a race between all unproven guys. Likely as they keep five and those guys are fighting for a practice squad spot. So it's really comes down to me to three players, Brandon Powell, Jalen Rager, and Tristan Jackson for wide receiver five. Next question is from Kyle Shaner on Twitter. NFL teams have been revealing a lot of throwback

uniforms recently. Which ones are your favorites? Well, okay. So this is a conflict for me because my favorite is also like morally wrong. And that is the Tennessee Titans using the Houston Oilers jerseys. The Houston Oilers jersey has an argument for the greatest jersey in NFL history. I like the Raiders, the 49ers, the Steelers, but the Oilers are right there for the all-time greatest logo uniform combination. And I don't know all the details of them leaving, why they left, everything else, but teams leaving and stealing franchises away. And then they have committed crimes against uniform humanity. Since then, the Tennessee Titans have had the single worst uniform in sports. And then the team that took titans have had the single worst uniform in sports

and then the team that took over in houston they're like second that is the second worst and uh so yeah i mean like society needs the houston oilers logo back and it is just absolutely wonderful and yet i feel like the tennessee's got it why is that why does tennessee have it shouldn't houston have it shouldn't houston Tennessee have it? Shouldn't Houston have it? Shouldn't Houston always have it? What is going on here? They're all good though. The Vikings is good.

Atlanta's going to go with the red helmet, I understand. And the creamsicle, I don't know. Like the creamsicle to me is more hilarious than good. I mean, some people are like, love this. It's so good. Like, okay, but it's funny, right? We all like it because it's funny that an NFL team actually went with that. I like it though.

I mean, it's completely classic. Those are the jerseys that I grew up on. But I thought it's like Houston is objectively amazing. And Tampa Bay is more, it's classic because it's cheesy and it's goofy. Right? So I just, you know, Tennessee,ennessee also ruined the fire with the dragon thing so i just got a deep-rooted beef the music city miracle you know all that stuff uh this one comes from tj actually let's get to tj's in just a second but first i gotta tell you about, hold on, hold on. I will find what I have to tell you about.

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vikings and raiders comes along i'm gonna be staying at circa so in vegas maybe you can come hang out with me as well uh trust me you'll hear some reminders on the show as we get closer anyway back to tj's question compare mike Mike Tice to Dan Campbell as head coaches bonus points. If you also compare them as tight ends, specifically how streaky their teams were. So this is a hard one because I did not cover Mike Tice. I don't really know what he was like as a coach, except to understand that he was a very kind of open guy, that he wasn't super concerned with the media writing this, that, or saying this, that, or what he said to the media, maybe is a better way to phrase that. That's kind of my understanding, but you're talking about going back

so far that I would have been in high school when Mike Tice was coaching the Vikings. And so I would have watched Dante Culpepper and Randy Moss and played with them on video games and thought it was great. But I can't really say specifically what Mike Tice was like, other than just to know he was a former tight end who was a mammoth human being. And I imagine there's probably a lot of criticisms about not having as much command of the organization and the players and so forth by being a players coach, which Dan Campbell might get with the gambling thing. And if things go sideways, I can compare though,

I think Rex Ryan, because I did cover Rex Ryan and he's not a former tight end, but he kind of had the same vibes where Rex Ryan would come out and say whatever he wanted to. And he would have all the players backs and he would kind of have one liners and things like that and kind of let the players do whatever they want. And you know what it really came down to though with Rex Ryan, I thought was the personnel more than anything. And I think that's the same case with Dan Campbell, where Rex Ryan's defense personnel wise was not as good in Buffalo as it was in New York. And they couldn't do a lot of the same things schematically. And on the offensive side, they had a 500 backup kind of quarterback in Tyrod Taylor.

Dan Campbell has got a much better quarterback in jared goff and has a offensive coordinator who's terrific in ben johnson who did not leave unlike mike tice's offensive coordinator from 04 to 05 which you know was a big problem there but we're in very different situations to be in um you know but i think that campbell is kind of dan camp, like a Fox in a lot of ways. His team was definitely streaky and he made some mistakes last year in close games, partly because their defense just struggled. But I also think that he understands who the good coordinators are and they've just built a really, really good roster.

So somebody put it to me who was in the NFL for a long time, kind of like there's different styles of coaches where you have certain guys that are very much like a Kyle Shanahan, the tactician, who is just all about the X's and O's. He's going to have complete command, drawn up the offense, calling the offense, everything else. And then there's kind of culture coaches who they're in command of the entire organization. They're going to take all the hits when the team struggles, you know, they're going to be the face when the team is succeeding and, but they're going to delegate. And so they're going to be kind of in command, but delegating to the coordinators. And I think that seems like what Dan Campbell does is gives

the coordinators a lot of control when it comes to the situation. And then he is going to try to connect with the players, bring the coaching staff together toward a common goal and things like that. That's how it seems to me. I think Dan Campbell was a better tight end than Mike Tice, but both were hulking human beings, just huge mammoth men who could block anybody. So we'll see on Dan Campbell. I mean,

I think it's altogether possible that the lions come up short of what their expectations are. And then people start looking at Campbell and going, do they need more of a tactical coach? Because whatever the last coach was, the next coach needs to be different. So he'll get questioned if they don't live up to expectations this year. I kind of think that they will. I guess we'll find out. All right. A few more here. We'll go a little more rapid fire for the last couple of questions. This from walleye Pike receiver room suddenly in crisis. Where are the adults? Do we place an emergency call to Chris Carter or send Addison

down to see Henry rugs in Nevada state prison? Um, yeah think with Jordan Addison and is sort of short and I mean, no apology written on your notes app is ever going to really do it for people. So, you know, but an underwhelming apology. And I don't know, I think here's the, here's the thing. Here's what I would say is Jordan Addison is very lucky to have a second chance to learn from this and grow from this. Very lucky because especially it wasn't just speeding the where he was speeding. I think you, a lot of, you know, it, a lot of, you know, the area in the twin cities, it doesn't make any sense to be speeding there. This isn't Mankato to Minneapolis. This isn't I can see for 20 miles and just hit the gas, whatever. Not that that's okay, but I think that that was a common thing with players.

This is a kind of a really dangerous area to be speeding. It's a 55. It's not a 70. It's a 55. And still, I mean, you're talking almost three times the speed limit. That is insane. But again, he lives to learn from it. And whether he does or not is going to determine kind of where he goes from here.

Because if he continues to do things like this, and it's just not going to last very long in the NFL, there's only a handful of guys who can continue to, you know, mess around and stay. And they're usually the greatest players on earth. But even then, a lot of times they don't stay with a single team. So how mature are you? How much can you take away from this? How much can you just put your head down and focus? Now, I don't think that we can just decide that Jordan Addison is a fool based on one incident. Cause then we would all have to look ourselves in the mirror as young people

and say, did I ever make a mistake? Did I ever do something reckless and stupid? So it's not that the career is over or that we've decided today that he is going to continue to do things like this, but it's the onus is really on him. So you have gotten your lesson. How do you learn from it?

And, and you know that we're going to find out, I think, from Jordan Addison. And we'll see if there's anything punitive involved or what Kevin O'Connell has to say about it. I will be interested in that. I guess for Kevin O'Connell, how is he going to react to this? Because there were times where Mike Zimmer had off- field stuff and reacted pretty harshly to it. So will he do the same thing or will this be a, I'm going to defend my player no matter what situation I will be very interested in that.

But to your point though, I am not downplaying your point about Henry rugs and, and that sort of thing. Like what he did put himself and everyone potentially around him in danger. And it's not something that can ever happen again. Like this goes for anybody, anybody, but especially someone who has a car that can go that fast can never happen again. And that's what I hope he takes away from it. And also, I mean, what you hope is

that there are consequences to the actions other than just the speeding ticket. So that's the point about coaching and Kevin O'Connell. If there are no consequences to the actions, then, you know, what incentive is there not to do it again? I guess we'll see. I'll be interested, see how it plays out. And again, he's lucky that it gets to play out after doing that. One deer jumps out in front of you and you might not get to see it play out. Ask Jeff Gladney. So anyway, I don't know if it was a deer in his situation, but that's how he died, speed, and killed somebody else with him. So it does need to be taken very seriously.

Anyway, Andrew, next question. At the end of the season, which iteration of the Vikings secondary do you think will wind up being considered better, 2013 or 2023? It better be 2023 or they will also win like three games. That was as bad of a past defense as has ever existed in that era, I guess I should say. I mean, there have been worse since, but when you go back and look at like expected points added and things like that, that 2013 defense could not stop anyone.

And, you know, there's very much mixed feelings, and we're going to find out on this defense because some people who tweet me and ask questions, they think it's going to be horrible questions they think it's going to be horrible they think it's going to be an absolute train wreck disaster these corners are going to get destroyed um and you know the quarterback schedule is a little spooky when it comes to that but i don't know if it could be as bad as 2013 i guess you know i i would say am I crazy for thinking it could be better than last year overall? And in general, maybe decent.

Byron Murphy, assuming that he's pretty good. And then one other person has to step up and they get decent play from the safeties. I'm not saying it's going to be great. I just think it's possible that it could be better than last year and maybe even borderline decent. I'm not setting the expectations super high, but it sounds like you're setting it as they're going to be the worst team in the league. I wouldn't start there, but also at the end of the season, maybe you can go back and say, ah, you were wrong. They turn out to be horrendous. I just don't think it's going to be

that way. I don't think it's going to be that bad because I like the talent that they have here. They've spent a lot of draft capital on the secondary over the last two or three years. And I mean, even going back to players like Cam Bynum, who they didn't draft or Josh Metellus, but still a lot of draft capital is in this secondary. Eventually it feels like this has to click. So, but it just 2013, they had a murderer's row of quarterbacks that they faced and nobody to play corner. And it is just an absolute nightmare. And I looked this up that 2013 was like 40 points worse and expected points added than last year's defense. Think about that. All right. From Dan, does it hurt the Vikings interior offensive line to not have scary interior pass rushers to practice against? Does it make it harder to evaluate them, the offensive line,

before we see them in week one? I will not be doing a whole lot of evaluation on the offensive line. One, because that's really hard to do at practice. But the other reason just being it's the starting five. We know who they are. We're not judging, hey, how's this guy look today? Is this guy winning a battle? There's no battles. We know the starting five. If somebody gets hurt, then we start to evaluate them. But I'm not going to evaluate them until we see them in actual games, not against Harrison Phillips or Dean Lowery.

And that is the thing that, well, they're not Vita Vea and they're not Chris Jones if he gets his contract done. And they're not Grady Jarrett. They are veteran players. They are good. We know what Garrett Bradbury is by now. I think we've got a pretty good idea of Ezra Cleveland. And it's going to take weeks to really have a feel

for whether Ed Ingram takes a step forward or not. He could have a slow start to the season and end up being a good player, or he could never get going. I mean, a lot of times we just need huge samples on these players before we really know what it's going to be like. I do think that if players are going to argue that iron sharpens iron, then we have to say, well, what is, you know, something dull? What does that sharpen? Nothing, right? But Harrison Phillips is a pretty good NFL player. Dean Lowry's been around. It's not like it's complete bums. And they do have some guys with some pass rush chops. You know, Ross Blacklock is going to be in there. He's going to be working

hard every day trying to win a job. These guys are not all pro players and maybe it hurts him a little bit. I mean, I do think that you could argue it helps to be able to go up against pass rushers who have a lot of moves and things like that, who can emulate guys you're going to face. So maybe it brings it back a little bit, but these are NFL players. I don't think we should pay a lot of attention to that. I mean, I don't know, like at this, at this type of level, I think it can help you, but I don't know if it hurts you that you're not practicing against one of the greatest on earth, or at least it shouldn't.

Not if you've been in the league before, not if you've already faced those guys, which everyone on this offensive line has. Okay. Three questions. We're going to do them in like a minute each from Scott. Netflix show was great and showed cousins in a new light, but odd that he still couldn't say that he should have thrown it to the best wide receiver in the NFL with the season on the line on fourth and eight. Yeah. There's two schools of thought on that. And I don't want to crawl inside of, uhousins' melon and try to explain what he's thinking about it because I don't know what he's thinking about it. And it's all edited. So who knows? I mean, later he might have said, it was all my fault. And they cut it out. I don't know. Right. I doubt it. I'm just kidding. But I think there's one part that's rationalization. Like he knows that he's getting hammered for that, but he's kind of rationalizing it too. Well, I made the right read. So everyone else is wrong. Like the principal

Skinner meme of like, is it me who was wrong or all the fans who wanted him to throw it to Jefferson? Like they must be wrong. There's also a rigidness to Kirk Cousins sometimes that has caused this kind of thing to happen before. That's one of the biggest criticisms of his career is not having that dynamic element to where he was showing that at times. And then the Buffalo throw, of course, is worth bringing up here that how can you say Justin was doubled when the play on fourth and 18 against Buffalo was to just throw it up to Jefferson. But the thing is that those actually are different situations because on fourth and 18,

there's no play call. I mean, he even said that after the games, like there's no play call for fourth and 18. It's basically just, you know, Hail Mary type of thing. Fourth and eight, there is a quick pass underneath and there's a world where Hawkinson shrugs off the tackler, gets first down. And you know, if that had happened, we'd never talk about it or remember what the throw was. We just say, wow, what a play by TJ Hawkinson off. They go to the end zone. So I think for fourth and eight, uh, both of us are right. Both. I mean, him and everybody else who's not happy about fourth and eight or remembers it.

It's probably overstated. Um, but it's also so kind of emblematic of this team coming up short with him. And some of the games that you remember that were like that, you know, these chances to win chances to be a good team. And then there's 160 yards versus San Francisco or whatever in the playoffs and things like that. Right. Going back to 2019, they have a chance to beat green Bay, maybe win the division. And it's one of those games, you know, and I think that it was just one of those moments he could really latch onto. And for him, he doesn't think of it in those terms. He thinks that I make the right decision. And his argument is that Dexter Lawrence broke through and he made the only throw that he

had there. A bunch of other quarterbacks have broken this play down and thought something else. So I don't know. I think more than anything, it's just if any of us were getting criticized like him for that play the same way, we might find some sort of like, no, it's not right that you're criticizing me for that play. But at the end of the day, I mean, Kevin O'Connell said that certainly wasn't where I drew up the ball to go or something like that after the game. And I'm going to have to lean that way.

But I think it's more just that it's, it's, it's like quintessential of the team coming up short and with him as their quarterback from what the expectations were. So, yeah, I don't know. It's,

it's an interesting thing that one out of that whole game, that one play just really sticks out so much because it ended in such meek fashion. It did not go down fighting. And it felt the same way, like against San Francisco in the playoffs. It felt the same way. Like they were checking down and throwing underneath when they were down 14 points, punting the ball away.

It was like, you're going down like this? Same kind of here. Like you're going down like this on a check down, huh? If that ball goes to Jefferson and it's knocked down, nobody ever talks about it again. And it's Ed Donatel that we are all focused on, not fourth and eight. All right. That was more than a minute answer. Um, let's see. Oh, that was actually, did I put these in twice? Okay. Yeah, no, I put one of them in twice. Sorry about that. So one more question from Jake, would it be fair

to say that this primarily youthful team wins the division at say 11 and six would be the most successful season since 2017. So you mean if they were to go 11 and six and win the division, it would be the most successful team, more successful than last year because they are primarily young. I will agree with that. Yeah, I will agree with that. I think it would be reminiscent of 2015 when they went to the playoffs in 2015, the way they did. Did everybody not think, whoa, here we go. Like this team is, this team's going to go somewhere in the future because look at all the young pieces who are here and we're coming back and all that. If they were to do that this year, yeah, I think we'd be talking about,

but you know, here's what you have to worry is the right word, but here's a possibility. You win 11 games with this team. Is somebody going to say, you know, we should just keep Kirk in place. I don't know that that could happen as well, but yeah, because I think the expectation when you look at Vegas, it's eight and a half games and to win. So if they were to outperform that by two and a half and do it on the backs of a Caleb Evans, maybe Louis seen maybe Brian Osamoa and maybe Jordan Addison, maybe Kenny Wong will retire Chandler. These are all pieces who could be here for a while. So yeah, yeah, no, I agree with you. It would be the most successful as hard. The 2019 team upon reflection was pretty good.

It was a pretty good team and they want to play off game on the road in new Orleans. It would be hard to argue against that one, but you know, that season is still viewed as a disappointment because that was the last one with that whole 2017 group. So I'm going to agree with you. I'm going to say it would be the most, uh, maybe reflective of where they're going since 2015 would remind me a lot of that. I'll agree. Great stuff, guys. Great stuff. Great questions.

Training camp special Monday night, live on YouTube. If you can't Great stuff, guys. Great stuff. Great questions. Training camp special Monday night, live on YouTube. If you can't tune in, it'll be on the podcast feed right after. So keep an eye out for that. Tuesday, reaction to everything that Kweisi Adafo-Mensa and Kevin O'Connell say. Then we'll have other beat reporters coming on by Friday. Ben Lindsay of PFF is going to talk about the QB annual, what that says about Kirk Cousins and the rest of the NFL. It is an exciting week, folks. We are back and I'll do my best on press conference audio and things like that

to keep you all in tune with what is going on at TCO Performance Center. So thanks so much for listening again, and we will catch you all next time. Appreciate it.