Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Can the Vikings learn from Packers' strategy?

Episode Date: October 27, 2025

Matthew Coller is back to react to Sunday's action and how it impacts the Vikings and what Minnesota can takeaway from the games. Plus, he answers your questions. The Purple Insider podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. Also, check out our sponsor HIMS at https://hims.com/purpleinsider Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider, presented by Fandul. Matthew Collar here, still on the road, but we'll be heading back to Minnesota tomorrow, and then Vikings Open Locker Room, and we start the preparation for J.J. McCarthy returning to the field against the Detroit Lions next week. The Lions were on their by week this week, but there was plenty of other action, so I want to give you 10 takeaways from watching football today and then some more interesting Vikings fan questions about where the team stands right now. So let's run through those takeaways from Sunday's action around the NFL. We got to start with the Green Bay Packers dismantling in

the second half of the game, the Pittsburgh Steelers. And the biggest takeaway here is, yeah, the Green Bay Packers are a legitimate Super Bowl contender. I don't think that that's any new information, but where I was most impressed was by Matt LaFleur and his offense with Jordan Love. And I think that as Kevin O'Connell watches this game, that he should think about this, too, that the Green Bay offense works the tight end a lot, works yards after catch a lot, has a lot of easy button stuff to it. And at one point, I don't know, was it 20 straight completions or something for Jordan Love? It seemed like completion, completion, completion. But how many of them really deep down the field. And then they were able to hit a couple. Some were some kind of

circus type of stuff from Jordan Love, one where he's about to get hit, just throws it wildly up in the air, and Tucker Kraft brings it down, runs for 40 more yards. And then another one, he's rolling out, takes a shot. His guy, Christian Watson is back for the Packers. He goes up and gets it. But aside from that, it wasn't like Jordan Love was sticking around in the pocket for very long against a really good Pittsburgh Steelers pass rush. And they took advantage of the Steelers who have some struggles tackling and were able to create a lot of longer drives, a lot of easy completions for Jordan Love. And that has been a big Matt LaFleur philosophy, a lot of play action, a lot of rollouts,

a lot of bootlegs since Jordan Love got there. And I think that when we debate quarterbacks, how good is this quarterback really? Is he elite? Is he the next Brett Favre, the next Aaron Rogers? Like, that's what we want to talk about with Jordan Love. But I think that the pairing of Matt LaFleur and Jordan Love has really maximized Love's ability to take a shot when necessary, but then contained him to just smart decision-making, not taking sacks, not hitting on negative plays.

And at the end of the day, they run away from the Pittsburgh Steelers. And I think as J.J. McCarthy gets ready to take over here that Kevin O'Connell has to keep that in mind. Now, you don't want O'Connell to completely take away some of the things that have worked best for Justin Jefferson and Jordan Addison. These are downfield receivers. These are guys you want to take shots with, but they're also guys who are really good with the ball in their hands. And as I was watching Tucker Kraft, I also couldn't help but think, is it that they haven't utilized T.J. Hawkinson like this? Is it the fact that T.J. Hawkinson has had to stay in and block all the time this season with the tackles not being healthy. And that's why he's not

like Tucker Kraft at this moment. Or is he not the same T.J. Hawkinson in terms of yards after catch? Well, if both tackles end up back in the lineup, I think we'll get a better sense for that because Hawkinson at times has been effective this year, but not consistently from week to week. And it's usually correlated with the tackle situation. That has to be a guy that is absolutely vital to J.J. McCarthy in his return the way that Tucker Kraft dominated this game against the Pittsburgh Steelers. So, of course, the Packers who have been Super Bowl favorites since they traded for Micah Parsons, that guy was incredible in this game. He's in the backfield all night long. He gets a sack, consistent pressure, two, three, four people blocking him at times.

And yet he was still giving Aaron Rogers all sorts of trouble. The Green Bay Packers are an elite team. They are not the favorite, I would not say right now, but they are certainly in that discussion with Detroit. Buffalo put themselves back up there again with a destruction of Carolina reminding you just how good that team is. And Kansas City goes without saying as the best teams in the NFL. But the Packers improving to 5-1-1, kind of a nightmare scenario for Vikings fans to have to be once again watching on the national stage. the Green Bay Packers having top-notch quarterback play, putting themselves at the top of the division, and battling with the Detroit Lions down the stretch.

But that is the reality of who the Green Bay Packers are right now, one of the best teams in the NFL. But I did have another thought out of this game because, of course, a lot of it was focused around Aaron Rogers. And if you were watching getting a little tired of every single drive, Rogers, Packers, Rogers, Packers, Well, that could have been your life when the Vikings played the Packers. The Vikings could have signed Aaron Rogers and brought him to Minnesota. But as I watched this game and Rogers struggling with the pressure and the Steelers not really being a complete enough team to truly be in that Super Bowl contender list that I mentioned earlier, I wouldn't put them anywhere close to that after this loss, the loss to Cincinnati, even the way they played against the Vikings was not that impressive overall. that there has been a lot of discussion with the way things have played out,

should they have brought in Rogers, should they have brought back Darnold? Of course, there's a discussion to be had about Darnold because he was younger, coming off of a great season, and maybe in some world, they could have signed him to an extension, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But with Aaron Rogers, this version of Rogers with this version of the Minnesota Vikings, the one we've seen play out, the one without healthy offensive tackles, the one with Addison suspended early in the season, the one with a defense that is just okay at times when they play bad teams and really terrible so far this year when they have played against good quarterbacks. I don't think that bringing in Aaron Rogers would have changed the Vikings fate a whole lot.

In fact, at this point in the season, we probably would have been saying, yeah, it's time to see J.J. McCarthy because they were still three and four, maybe four and three, and showing no real signs of being a Super Bowl contender. Rogers still make some really great throws, still has some excellent drives, but it's those moments when Micah Parsons breaks through and he has to scramble and he has to make a throw off balance. It's just not the same guy. And for the Pittsburgh Steelers, they're going to be in the race the whole way because Cincinnati somehow lost to the New York Jets and the Cleveland Browns are a horror show. The Ravens got a win and they should be a little concerned about the Ravens coming from behind. But, okay, well, the Pittsburgh Steelers needed to get back into the playoffs. But for the Vikings, I don't know that this would have worked for them to have the version of Aaron Rogers that we saw tonight against the Green Bay Packers. It would have felt a day late and a dollar short.

And J.J. McCarthy might have been starting by this point anyway. And maybe they would have even been discussing trading Aaron Rogers at this point. Now, had they had the elite defense that they dreamed of and all the offensive players not suspended, or completely healthy, then maybe it's different. But in the case that we've seen from this current version of the Vikings, if everything played out the same and Rogers was their quarterback, it's just probably a middling team anyway. So I think that's a big takeaway from tonight that the Steelers looked for a minute there

like they might be a true contending team. And Rogers was playing really well, but I think showed how far they really are behind the best teams in the NFL with another loss this time at the hands of the Green Bay Packers. So let's get to some other takeaways around the NFL. Caleb Williams really struggled today, in fact, through a terrible interception that really cost the Chicago Bears against the Baltimore Ravens. Now, there's two takeaways from this game. I mean, number one is clear that Baltimore Ravens team, they seemed pretty confident.

Not exactly the Ravens defense that had played earlier this year. It seems that they may have gotten some things corrected for the Ravens defense. against this Chicago team. So the Vikings play them in two weeks, again, not exactly what you want to see. And as every team seems to be coming off of a buy facing the Vikings or healthy rest or getting to play at home on Thursday night football, the Ravens will have a Thursday night game and then play the Vikings after a mini buy. And it looks like Lamar Jackson will be back.

So that's an obvious one right there that the Ravens are probably not going away, not with all the talent that they have on that roster. And they certainly showed it with Tyler Huntley in at quarterback today. But on the other side of things, Caleb Williams continues to show some signs of progress. There were plays in that game where occasionally he would drop back, set his feet, and throw to the proper receiver. And we've seen this a lot more from him.

And we've seen a lot more receivers open for the Chicago Bears so far this year. But once again, he turned into Caleb Williams. There was scrambling, bad and inaccurate throws down the field, looking like he didn't know where to go with the football. And then once they get after a kind of bumbling drive, they get close in that game. They've got a chance to potentially take the lead against the Ravens. And Caleb Williams throws it away, firing the ball senselessly into traffic, got intercepted, not a throw you can make from your own end zone, taking that risk over the middle of the field, and that opened up the floodgates for the Ravens to ultimately win that

game. And I think that as the sample size grows with Ben Johnson and Caleb Williams, we're starting to get more of a sense of what Caleb Williams is going to be with the Chicago Bears and with Ben Johnson, which is throughout certain parts of games, you're amazed that how these receivers are open. Roma Dunze has really had a good season, and they are utilizing him like maybe Amon Rasey Brown at times with the Detroit Lions, but also Caleb Williams still has some of the same shortcomings that he has. And I saw Carmen Vitale of Fox Sports, a good friend. And she said that on Twitter, you know, she follows the Bears closely, lives in Chicago.

She said, you know, they've been kind of getting away with some stuff the last few weeks, and it finally got to them. And that's true. They had to block a kick against the Raiders to get a win. They had to have Washington literally fumble the ball away. in order to get a win in that game. So ineptitude throughout their games had been covered up by some late game stuff that went their way. It did not today against the Baltimore Ravens.

And I think it shows that Caleb Williams, well, they were looking for that big jump that we've seen from maybe another quarterback from the 2024 class has only made incremental improvements. And a lot of the same problems still exist. The Vikings won't see him for a few weeks. So we will get more of Caleb Williams. But I think that's what we're starting to see with him, where it's better, it's definitely better than last year, where it was an interception festival, or I'm sorry, a sack festival, not interception so much, a sack festival last year for Williams. It has not been that. He's been getting rid of the ball, but can he really read defenses?

Can he really see the middle of the field? Can he really get the ball to those receivers the way Ben Johnson wants and be a field general? The answer has been only a little bit at times for Caleb Williams. so far this year. So I still see the Chicago Bears as another non-contending team. If you guys have been wearing hats or trying different haircuts in order to cover up for your hair loss, trust me, I totally feel you. And maybe you've tried different hair loss solutions and nothing works. Well, I've got something for you then. It's called Hymns. Hymns offers convenient access to a range of prescription hair loss treatments with ingredients that work.

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their defense is horrendous. And it's banged up and it just looked atrocious against a backup quarterback for the Ravens. So not buying stock in Chicago after today. Let's get to some other rapid fire ones, and then we'll get to some Viking fan questions that were submitted. Okay, so Bo Nix is now 16 and 9 in his career after a really good win against Dallas, where Knicks played fantastic football. Dallas's defense, if only J.J. McCarthy could be playing this week against Dallas's defense. They cannot cover. They cannot pressure. They cannot stop the run. They are as bad of a defense as you will ever see in the NFL. And Bo Nix and Denver took advantage of that and got another win today. But the Broncos being 16 and

nine with Bo Nix reminds us that they drafted him last year and he has 25 games now in his NFL career. J.J. McCarthy has two. And it just tells you because there's still debates constantly about Bo Nix after 25 games and a winning record how long it takes. But I also think that Nix is starting to come into his own as a starting quarterback. We know his strength. and his weaknesses, the big games that he can have, sometimes the complete disappearances. We also see a lot of the same strategy that I was talking about with Matt LaFleurre deployed by Sean Payton today, where it was underneath, underneath, quick pass, quick pass, and then a shot over the top from Nix, and a couple of them worked today, and they had a really good day.

But Nix is becoming a pretty good quarterback in the NFL that can lead a winning team. and I'm not saying the Vikings should have drafted Bo Nix. I think we're going to need to see J.J. McCarthy first before we could start saying, well, they should have done this or should have done that. That's my contention even about the Darnold stuff, where even as a defender of the Bring Back Darnold idea way back when in March, I would still say, well, we need to see the other side of that first before we can really say, hey, they should have taken this guy or they should have taken that guy.

I think the only one that's clear that we'll get to. in a second is had they gotten Drake May, that really would have been something. But with Bo Nix, he is proving that with a good team and good coaching that he can win a lot of games in the NFL. I think the ceiling may still be not as high as some other quarterbacks, but that is a guy that the Vikings had on the board and chose to take someone else. So I think he's always kind of in your view of, well, what's happening in Denver and how good is Bo Nix? The answer so far, through two seasons has been pretty good. But the belief in the markets is not that high in that team winning the AFC West,

because of course they're in on Kansas City, Denver on Fanduil plus 200 to win the West. This was their first really strong and legitimate win. I mean, I'm not that coming back against the Giants was illegitimate, but it certainly was random and hard to do. The same with their win over the Colts, kind of random with I think it was a block kick at the end of that game. but nonetheless, Knicks leading another winning team for the second straight year. Speaking of Drake May on Fandul plus 450 to win MVP right now, and I don't know if you take that better or not.

I think that the schedule has been favorable to Drake May, but his performance today, despite a very good Brown's defense and just shredding them up and down the field, shows you why he was a top draft pick in the 2024 draft. And it's funny because a friend texted me, today and said, you know, hey, didn't Drake May look worse than J.J. McCarthy in those joint practices? And I would still add that we've barely seen J.J. McCarthy. So maybe he will be just as good or better. But with Drake May, what we saw in the joint practices was, well, they didn't have digs, but we saw the physical tools. And what I think you're also seeing is

the combination of the play caller. And it just matters so much. It really, really was hitting me today as I was watching football, just what a big deal, that connection between the playcaller and the quarterback is. And the reason that this whole time, through the offseason and through the joint practices, that we were buying the idea of J.J. McCarthy was Kevin O'Connell and that connection that he had with Sam Darnold, that he had with Kirk Cousins. And this Sunday against the Lions, I'll be there. Just booking my travel today, not the easiest flights for anybody. So I don't think it's going to be a Viking fan takeover, but, you know, maybe. Just in general, though, the J.J. McCarthy-C. connection where we just didn't really get to see it. And even in those two

games, you think about how few actual plays that Kevin O'Connell sent in to J.J. McCarthy. I don't even think it was a hundred plays so far that he sent into the headset of McCarthy. But I was thinking about it with Drake May, Josh McDaniels, a great play caller. I don't think anybody would dispute that at all. And the physical tools, though, have come to fruition with Drake May. But look how long it really took to get to this point where we were talking about May being excellent. All of last year, it's, hey, there's some good moments, there's some bad moments, ups and downs. That team likes May. He showed his high end, but they didn't win a whole heck of a lot. And then even at the beginning of the year, this year, I even wondered if the Patriots were

going to be good enough as a roster to support his talent. And they've clicked in recently. But I would say it was only after maybe four games or so that it started to come together. So how many starts was that for Drake May before we can really start saying that May is an excellent quarterback? I think there's a point in there about McCarthy that we will have to be patient while trying to take things away from every single game, every single play that we of McCarthy we're going to want to decide is he legit is he not is he the franchise quarterback but i would even direct it to jordan love and his first eight games or drake may what were his first eight games or ten games like probably not up to the standard where he is right now and that's

the hard thing about quarterbacks hey archmanning won a great game the other day everyone had declared archmaning the biggest bust of all time after two games and we love to do that but it's just wrong. It's just wrong. So on one side, everybody is excited to start seeing J.J. McCarthy again. And I'm going to do my best to break down everything I see and we're going to talk about it and have hopefully some more fun than it's been doing that. But I'm also along the way going to say we have to remember that you can't force the conclusions here with J.J. McCarthy. And it's going to be a tough first game at Ford Field against the Detroit Lions. So May reminded me of that today. Also noticed from the Houston game, their win against the 49ers, C.J. Stroud, who has really been

up against it so far this year, 30 for 39, and you'll never believe where I'm going to take this a lot of quick throws, a lot of quick balls, and then the occasional downfield pass, a lot of stuff, just outbreaking or underneath that he threw today. And they talked about in the broadcast how of the Texans had fully broken down their entire offense. They just tore it all apart and looked at every single piece of it coming out of a really tough Seattle game. And this was the conclusion they came to. And we also saw in all these games a lot of shades of Gary Kubiak of play actions,

of rollouts, of getting the quarterback away from the pressure. Now, with Carson Wentz, that was pretty hard to do because it's Carson Wentz. And rolling out was kind of a problem. but with J.J. McCarthy, I always thought one of his biggest strengths was his ability to throw on the run. And I think with McCarthy, a lot of the rollout stuff, if you can draw it up correctly, and if you've got the right kind of outlets, if things go wrong, or they rush up field, it could be very effective. And we saw a lot of that from Stroud, and he looked much more at home in this game. Also, the 49ers, another good example of a certain

number of injuries cannot be overcome. And they have, there was some crazy. that over the last two years that their guys have missed like 2,000 games. They had defensive linemen going out left and right, and eventually it catches up with you. Not an excuse, but even the 49ers who have been used as, hey, the 49ers have injuries and they won. They looked pretty bad today with all of their guys banged up. But Houston adapting the offense, just another like, hey, bootlegs, hey, quick passes.

Don't try to overcomplicate things, not at least yet. when you do have a full offensive line and when you do have a quarterback who can do all that stuff, oh, overcomplicate away because once you have someone who can run all that stuff, you get Matthew Stafford and the Los Angeles Rams and it can be phenomenal. But as of right now, with J.J. McCarthy, you'd like to see some of the stuff with Stroud, some of the stuff with love that has worked for those guys in an environment where there's just a lot pressure from opposing teams. And there should be a more healthy offensive line this week, by the way, for the Vikings. All right. So a couple other things, Atlanta and Carolina are

the Vikings. Isn't it crazy? Like, I have no idea what these teams are. Carolina will get a big win and then they'll get blown out. And Andy Dalton, hey, look at that. A backup quarterback came in. Oh, Atlanta, a backup quarterback came in and they got beat down hard, sort of like the Vikings. There's there's just no way around it and it's frustrating and it's not fun to talk about and it's definitely not as exciting as criticizing the head coach and saying everybody doesn't know what they're doing and should be fired. But teams that are playing backup quarterbacks not having a great time. Even Joe Flacco who played great lost, although he's a Super Bowl champs. It's a little bit different. But Andy Dalton, Kirk Cousins, guys who are on the back end of

their careers, that sound familiar like Carson Wentz? They have games like this. where they just, there's absolutely no way that you're winning, period, with that backup quarterback caliber play. I wanted to say, good for Justin Fields. Good for Justin Fields. Now, I've never really been a Justin Fields buyer or believer, and I mean, I thought it was the right move for the Jets to have him as their type of quarterback or Pittsburgh last year to give him a swing and probably should have stuck with him.

but Justin Fields getting criticized openly in public by the owner was as classless as you'll see from an ownership, but that's par for the course for the New York Jets. And the way that Justin Fields handled it was flat out terrific. He acknowledged how much he was hurt this week and, you know, how frustrating it is to lose and how painful it is to lose and then have the guy who writes everybody's checks, the billionaire, come out and more or less make fun of you and talk about how bad you are. must have been atrocious for him and his family and everything. And look, anybody else can take their swings. But the owner of the team doing it, just a reminder about the ownership of the

Minnesota Vikings does not have this problem most of the time. So, or none of the time that the New York Jets have had. It also all starts with the owner. That's pretty clear. And if you're looking for silver linings for, hey, will the Vikings eventually get this turned around? Well, at very least, they always have an ownership that handles themselves the right way and not like Woody Johnson. But Justin Fields has a great game, gets a win for the New York Jets, on the day that we learned of the passing of Nick Mangold, one of the greatest players in NFL history, just absolutely awful day for that organization. Rex Ryan broke down on TV. It was extremely, extremely sad. And I mean, one of my favorite players ever to watch. Those Jets teams,

were stacked, they ran the ball so well, a leader, just everything that you would have dreamed in a franchise player. They have rarely an NFL history made them like Nick Mangold. So good for Justin Fields leading that victory, and I appreciated his candor after the game as well, but a reminder that ownership matters a lot in the NFL. Okay, one more is the Giants, their loss with Jackson Dart today. So they lost to the Eagles. They gave up 30 points, but they scored.

toward 20. And Jackson Dart wasn't that bad. He got sacked probably more times than you would like, had some nice throws, had some bad plays. But at the end of the game, you walk away going, well, if the defense had been a little bit better, then maybe Jackson Dart could have taken them to a victory. Welcome to your life, Vikings fans. This is what you'll be looking for because New York Giants fans should be pretty happy with that game. Okay, you gave up 38, that's bad. you lost the game, that's bad. But the Giants aren't winning the Super Bowl. Jackson Dart is the only story for the New York Giants every week and just felt terrible

for Cam Scadaboo getting hurt the way that he did. But every week for the New York Giants, how good is Jackson Dart? Is there a reason to tune in? And more likely than not, that's the same thing for the Minnesota Vikings. How good is J.J. McCarthy? And if the Vikings play this weekend against the Lions and they lose, 38 to 20, but J.J. McCarthy plays like Jackson Dart. I'm writing down a W. And I know that's, I mentioned it yesterday. I know. It's moving the goalposts. This season is still a

failure. If the Vikings don't get back into the race, that's going to be a very difficult thing for them to do at this point. There is no trophies outside of the real ones for this team, not a team that expected to win. And I will continue to say that, that all the criticism that goes their way for coming way short of expectations. We should not have been watching the Packers tonight and saying, oh, man, couldn't be the Vikings. The Packers eventually ran the Steelers out of the building. The Vikings were down 24 to 3 against the Steelers.

Not in the same class, right? And they should have been. And that's where they were expected to be, right? That's when they started this thing. They didn't say that the Packers were supposed to be in a different class. But as things change, sometimes you have to be. to take the best that you can get. So if they have a Jackson dart-like game where the kid is good and the defense is bad, then that unfortunately gets written in the win column. I know that's, again,

not where we were looking to grade this team. It was supposed to be just on the record. And then, okay, the progress was important as well. But now it has become just the progress. So if you watch that game, well, that might be what you're looking at. And Fandul thinks of too. I was checking the odds and neither team was playing, so it didn't change after the results. But the Detroit Lions are nine and a half point favorites to open the week against the Minnesota Vikings. It might not even be enough to tell you the truth, the way that they've been playing. Now, somebody did tweet me and say, wouldn't it be just like the Vikings to win this game? Yes, it would. Yes, it absolutely would. So I don't want to close the door to anything.

But I do think that that line from Fandul, nine and a half point favorites for the the Detroit Lions is very much earned and deserved for the Vikings, a defense that hasn't stopped this lion's offense basically since Jared Gough got there. And I did see, by the way, a report in the athletic that Jared Gough doesn't get enough credit. So that's good to see. I guess we were ahead of the game on that insight. But it was Diana Rossini writing that some NFL executive had told her that Gough isn't getting enough credit.

It's like, well, how many number one offenses does he have to lead to get that credit? So this is a tough place to play. It's a tough situation. It's a defense that now looks to me better than they were with Aaron Glenn. I think that the defense now for the Detroit Lions, even with some injuries, is a better version than when they had Aaron Glenn, a little more complicated, a little more things mixed in there for J.J. McCarthy to see. So not the easiest situation, but it's time to take the, well, there's not even

training wheels off. He's really like getting, uh, it's like a kid that broke his leg in the summertime and didn't get to play with anybody for the first six weeks of summer and finally got the cast off. That's kind of how it is for J.J. McCarthy. He gets the cast off and he's got to go play with the 11th graders or something in backyard football. But hey, it's time to go play because you can't waste summertime. So that's, uh, the metaphor going into the game against the line. So I got a couple of fan questions I want to get to before I wrap up. up the show. Rob says, how do O'Connell and Flores write the ship? Getting back from guys back from injuries is a start, but what can they realistically do scheme-wise in the middle of the season?

Well, I think that from an offensive perspective, we've already seen shades of this. And I know that it comes up all the time. Why do they throw deep? Why do they throw deep? And certain people like me might be responsible for even talking about this earlier on the show with Jordan Love and C.J. Stroud and how I noticed that these bootlegs were having a lot of success running the bootlegs, run the short stuff, throwing to the tight ends. Like, they're working that way. And I think that J.J. McCarthy needs to have a lot of that stuff too. Now, the Vikings offense was supposed to be rooted in a lot of that stuff with him as an under center quarterback coming from a Harbaugh system and they really did a lot of play action with tons of success with Sam

Darnold. So I don't know if there's something schematically that they can change big time like overhaul. Here's what you have to do. It's stuff we saw against the Browns, easy button types of plays. It's play actions that we saw against the Eagles that can hit downfield shots where we know J.J. McCarthy can throw the ball 20 yards down the field. He's done it. All of his best throws in the first two games are those intermediate 15 to 20 yard throws along the sideline off of play action booting to hit Justin Jefferson against Chicago. There were good plays in those first two games. Finding the situations to get into with those, I think is really the important thing. So the run game has to get started early on. They have to get some drives going to where it

doesn't feel like, all right, well, you're down 20. So throw, throw, throw. And really, avoiding the sacks designing everything you can do at a game plan to not get sacked and that doesn't you know if that has to mean 10 screen passes if that has to mean a bunch of play actions well so be it then because you can't have j j mccarthy taking hit after hit as he was in the first two games of the season on defense that's a tougher question do you play more man coverage with who i think that they've actually done that this year and it has not had a whole lot of success. Do you just try a lot more Tampa to stuff to stick a linebacker in the middle of the field, possibly? That does take away your ability to blitz. But the blitzes haven't really been

getting home. What do you do to stop the run? Do you just basically not really play Jayvon Hargrave? Is he really the entire problem? Or is it personnel or is it circumstance? I mean, even their yards per carry allowed has not been majorly different than last year, but other teams have been in a position to run, run, run. I think it's very hard to overhaul and change the personnel that you have. And against top-notch wide receivers like Amman Ross St. Brown or top talent like Jameson Williams, it's going to be very hard for them to just flip a switch. But I do think that you can do something better to take away the middle of the field. We just haven't seen that really happen. And stopping the run against Jemir Gibbs is going to be really, really difficult. So, I mean,

I know you're talking bigger picture. I think the answers are a lot easier on offense than they are on defense because the horses are there on offense. They have, if they get healthy, they have the tackles. They have the star receivers. They have the backfield. Now with Aaron Jones back that we all thought they were going to have, they're missing really one guy if they go in there mostly healthy. And that would be the center. And that's it.

So if they can go back to what they were supposed to be, then I think they can have success offensively. Defense, there's just a lot of players that have not turned out what we thought they were going to be. And on defense, sometimes there is no scheme. Sometimes there is no answer. If you can't cover one-on-one, there's not much you can do. And that's really been the case. That's what's killed them the last few weeks. It's a deep bomb. I know that over-the-middle stuff got them against the Chargers, but it's a bomb to McConkey. It's a bomb to Devante Smith. It's a bomb to A.J. Brown. And those are just one-on-one time. of situations where this secondary is getting beat and really looks like in the future it's going

to need a total overhaul. So I don't know how you just flip the switch and make that any different than what it has been. Although I do have plans to get Cody Alexander defensive guru on the show to talk about that. So maybe he knows better than me or can at least explain better than me what is happening to the Minnesota Vikings defense. Daniel says, I know this is way too early, but Thursday night was brutal. What sort of outs do the Vikings have to try to rebuild this off season? Clearly, the bets that they made in free agency are not working, but those sunken costs for next year, or are those sunken costs or are there ways out of those deals that will give

them a path forward? So for me, I'm just not there yet. I'm not there yet with the off season because, wow, I mean, it's not even November yet. I don't think any of us planned. And look, I went to Los Angeles, where I am still right now, with the thought process that I was coming out here to cover a game that the Vikings could win. And then we'd be talking about McCarthy comes back. They're competing.

They're, you know, hey, you beat Detroit. And then, wow, you're really in that mix in the playoffs. And that's just not where we're at. So I haven't gone to the over thecap.com. I have it. And also, it's just a little on the depressing side. at this moment to be this early in the season, and we're already talking about who can you get rid of,

who can you move on from in the off season. But I think just in general, they have set up a lot of their contracts to be workable in terms of extensions or for someone like Jonathan Grenard or in terms of who's going to need, I think, a big extension, in terms of who they could move on from, who they could possibly cut or restructure, or a lot of those different things.

Like they gave themselves options, with a lot of those, but, you know, the parts that they need to change have really presented themselves. And to me, it starts with the secondary, that they can pressure the quarterback if Van Ginkle is back. And with Jonathan Grenard, I think something has to be reworked on the interior. The secondary, though, is just untenable. The way that it is set up as of right now that they can't cover against good wide receivers. And that will probably need to change center. is clearly a position they're going to have to work in the future. But we'll get into all that as we go forward. I mean, we want to see the whole sample on guys and not try to make a full

judgment. I mean, think about even the Ravens defense last year was horrible through the first half. The 2023 Vikings defense was horrible through the first few games of the year. And then it got back on track. I mean, there's just a long way to go here. But I think the real answer is they're not going to have no cap space, as some people have said by just looking it up on over the cap. There's flexibility there. They're going to have to push some buttons, though. And I guess where I'll be interested in is from the ownership perspective, do they want to push those buttons?

Or are they going to say, hey, you spent all of our money last year. You guys are going to have to figure this out. But as maybe a few of you have pointed out, without recent draft picks who are becoming stars or even becoming quality starters, they are going to. going to have to rebuild this thing on the fly with the same strategies that they've had to deploy and they're going to have to have much more of a 2024 off season than a 2025 off season next year. But we'll have plenty of time to get into that. I'm sure most likely starting in mid-January. So we'll just, we'll keep an eye on that for now and we'll evaluate each

player as it goes. But it's a long season. There's more games, believe it or not, to go than there are finished at this point, which, wow, when you say that out loud, a long way to go with this season. So let's see where everyone's at at the end of the year before we start cutting everybody and trading everybody right now. Sean says, is it just me or has Quasi Adolph-Menza found himself in the same cap situation, cheap quarterback aside that he was when he took the job, old and overpriced players who are underperforming. So that last part is absolutely true, yes, that there are a lot of older and overpriced players. on the roster at the moment.

I think that the difference is when you put in parentheses, aside from the quarterback contract being cheap, that's a big couple of parentheses, a lot of heavy lifting that the parentheses are doing there, that that's what allows them to not feel like they are completely sunk. Now, it does feel like, yeah, this is a 2021 type of roster where there's a lot of positions that are going to need to be addressed in the future. And it is kind of funny because when they got here, it looked like the cap situation

was screwed and what were they going to do. And, you know, they still signed Zadarius Smith. And they still found a way to win 13 games the following season. As cartoony as it was at time, still they found themselves winning the division running away after supposedly being completely out of luck with the cap. Now, I'm not saying the cap is fake. I'm just saying that, you know, there are ways to work around these things. and to add to this roster, and with the advantage that they'll have with J.J. McCarthy, the cap is going up huge numbers each year. I don't look at it as there's no way out.

I think that it's going to have to be hitting on free agents. It's going to have to be maybe a draft pick that is high that contributes really soon. But again, we're sort of far down the road here. But the question, though, is when you look to me, now offense, we know this. is much more sustainable than defense from year to year. We can absolutely say that, right? Defense, we're seeing it. It goes up and down, schedule injuries, but offense usually is more sustainable.

Well, if you look at the pieces on offense, when you say, well, they're old and they're worn out and they're expensive, Jefferson, Addison, Jordan Mason, Derisaw. Okay, O'Neill is older. Jackson, fries. that's a lot of guys on offense who are not old. They are expensive, but they are not old. They're in their primes. And that's going to be ultimately, if they get good quarterback play,

much more important than it will be on defense or much harder to fix it would be if you didn't have a receiver, if you didn't have a left tackle. Those things are so much harder to find than it is to get a couple of free agents that click on defense. Now, it's not looking that easy right now, but I think you saw it the last two years where you're able to put together

a pretty solid defense and win a lot of games with a solid defense without having a million superstar players who are 20 years old. If it was on the offensive side, I would say it's virtually impossible to get an elite receiver, elite left tackle. But they are in a position where if their quarterback plays well, then a lot of this looks different. And then this is the reality. This is the absolute reality of the Minnesota Vikings.

They have had bottom five quarterback play in the NFL this year. when they had top 10 quarterback play everybody looks better especially the defense because they're not on the field as much they're not having teams pounded down their throw they're in a lot more situations where they're desperate to pass the football and this is why the quarterbacks make so much freaking money is because it truly impacts everything when the quarterback play as a whole wenton mccarthy has been in the bottom five you're going to have a lot of people look a lot worse than they are receivers running backs linemen defense. It's all going to look worse. And that's kind of where you're at right now. And that's why they need McCarthy back and they need him to immediately play well. And I think if he does, then suddenly other things will start to look a little bit better. Nicole says, what does good look like for this next game? Realistically, seems like the players that we have available can't run the schemes that the coaches want. And perhaps the coaches haven't been willing to accept that. So that ties me back into you were playing a backup quarterback. Carolina had nothing today. Same record as the

Vikings playing a backup. Atlanta had nothing today playing a backup. I think we always, when we watch a backup quarterback play, it ruins our brain. It just, why is everyone so freaking bad? Why does the coach not know what he's doing? Why is every offensive lineman bad? Why is every receiver underperforming? Why is the tight end not catching as many passes? Did the coach forget how to do everything? And I think we need to keep in mind at least a little bit of the success that O'Connell's had in the past. Here's a stat for you to take to work on Monday. Kevin O'Connell with his starting quarterback.

So Kirk Cousins, Sam Darnold, or J.J. McCarthy, is 32 and 12 with his starting quarterback. So we can't quite say, hey, they completely have lost their minds. I think we also have to add that Carson Wentz with backup. tackles just not capable of doing it, the same way Dalton or cousins weren't on Sunday. That doesn't excuse everything, and I mentioned some of the changes, and we've talked about it kind of at nauseam. But as far as your other question, what does good look like? That's the Jackson Dart scenario.

I just have a tough time thinking that this team suddenly finds it, stops the Lions, gets five picks, wins the game running away. Hey, if they do, seasons back on, I guess. But realistically, as nine and a half point favorites, for the Lions on Sunday by Fandul. It's hard for me to sit here and say, oh, yeah, actually the Vikings will just get it all back together. But if they lose and J.J. McCarthy overall plays pretty well.

Let's say we give him a B plus walking out of the stadium. That is good. And that's the standard that we're grading on now is did they set up the quarterback for success? Did he have success? And those are the only two answers that we really care about at the end of the day. unless they prove us wrong, there have been crazier things that have happened, but with the Packers winning, with Detroit winning their last game and putting themselves, those two teams kind of running away from it right now,

running away from the Bears and the Vikings. It's just hard to talk about, hey, get back in the race, but if they get a win, maybe everything will feel different. Two more quick questions. This one from M.B. says reading some of the rumblings from reliable sources about underlying tensions existing within the team since the source. spring, have you felt it? Did letting Darnold walk and gambling the entire year on a rookie quarterback create doubts within the locker room? So I think that the locker room after the

Darnold meltdown in the final two games was pretty understanding about why that decision was made. So I've never felt at any point like the players were second guessing that they had seen McCarthy in the previous summer and they, I think, bought into the ID. that the roster was stacked and that they could bring McCarthy along with Kevin O'Connell. And why wouldn't you buy that considering their success before? So I think that the locker room was on board with that. You know, look, not every person is going to walk over to me and whisper in my ear. Sometimes it has happened through the past.

But, hey, man, I'm a little worried about it. But it was, I'm sure in the back of everyone's mind that, if he's not good, then where are we going to be at? So what I do know, though, is that there were people with differing opinions inside the building. And maybe one of the reasons that some of the Aaron Rogers reporting got out to where it did was because of the issues with some people in maybe going to McCarthy or concerns, I should say, from some people inside the building with going to McCarthy. That rumor didn't start itself in the reporting by some of the folks. at the athletic. So yes, the answer is yes, that there were folks that were not on board 100% with the idea of taking a 14 win team and handing it over. What I would say is that that's not

unusual, that there would be dissenting opinions on a major decision. Well, that's what happens when you have hundreds of people who work in a building and maybe a dozen people who have very loud voices inside of a room. You will have people who aren't always. he's 100% on board with the team's decision and the way to go. And if it doesn't work, so I'll tell you a quick story that when the Buffalo Bills traded up for Sammy Watkins, and I heard this from someone who was in the room at that time, everyone was on board. They loved Watkins.

They had huge grades on him. They thought this will help E.J. Manuel become a great quarterback. And then not too long after that, after it didn't work, there was a little finger pointing of, hey, I was never on board with that. hey, you were the one that wanted that. That's how it goes. Your office is not that different from a front office a lot of times. And football people aren't that different from you.

You guys know football and you guys are passionate about it and have opinions that are strong. Well, guess what? The people who really do this do as well. So if it doesn't work out and this fails, then, oh, yeah, you're going to hear some people, I'm sure, get whispered through certain channels. I was never on board with that and this person is this way or that person made that decision and so forth. But here's how I look at it.

Everyone is responsible and I'll get this all the time in emails. Why did Quasi do this? Well, look, if you're going to have collaboration between all three levels, coaching, front office, and then the ownership, then all three levels when it goes down, all of them are the ones that deserve to be criticized. Not one person. not just O'Connell on a decision, not just Quasi Adolfo Menza, and not just the Wilf's. If this doesn't work, it's on all of them to be responsible and to fix it.

So if it doesn't work, we sat at a chair or at a small table with Mark Wilf at the owner's meetings in Florida, where he told us that he was fully on board with this idea to go to J.J. McCarthy. And he loved Rogers and respected him, but he said, hey, we believe in J.J. McCarthy. So to me, if O'Connell picks him, if the front office is signing off, if the ownership is saying we're good with it, it was everybody's call. But the answer to your question is, of course, if it doesn't work, I'll just give you a line that I've probably said a million times. Your culture is often only as good as your win-loss record in football. And

what O'Connell's built, yeah, I mean, it certainly doesn't go into total collapse panic mode like maybe a previous head coach, but still, Zimmer and Spielman, after 13 wins, thick as thieves. After eight and nine seasons, seven and nine seasons, at odds. That's how it works. That's football. Okay, last question. Ale asks, I'm curious about your degree of optimism about J.J. McCarthy. What do you think the chances are that he remains healthy for the remainder of the season?

Well, that, that I can't answer. idea um all of us this is the one thing you guys will ask well do i root for the team stuff like that well i don't root for wins and losses i'm just doing my job here but i always root for health i never want to see anybody get hurt and for j j mccarthy knowing the work that he's put into this over the years if he gets hurt again it will just be incredibly sad it's already incredibly sad he was having a good training camp he was coming along in 2004 and it was exciting to watch the energy and enthusiasm from him and the team, seeing his growth,

and then to have that stifled by a knee injury was just awful. And then seeing how far he had to come, the weight loss he went through and everything to get back to where he is. It's just, it's such a hard road for, I mean, I hated it when Hawkinson got hurt, when Darrysaw got her,

every injury that you could bring up. I just hated it. So I have no idea if he's going to stay healthy. All I can say is I hope he does. for for his sake of somebody who's worked really hard to get to this point in his career to have this chance and also everybody needs to see it but you know just hopefully he does that's the best take i can give because i have no way to assess that analytically the chances that he gets hurt uh now as far as degree of optimism i would say that uh it's funny because on draft night so i had been probably

the most skeptical of McCarthy of all the quarterbacks from 2024. You guys who listened to the show then, remember that my issue was I felt very unsteady with someone who didn't have enough passing attempts. And the previous quarterbacks who were in his ballpark of passing attempts, they usually took a while or didn't work out, like a Ryan Tannihill and Alex Smith, like those types of guys were the comps and maybe a Mark Sanchez. And so those guys had some success and it's not that it can't work out. Mitch Trubisky was another one. He did take a team to a playoff game and so forth. But, you know, that was my concern. And on the night that they drafted him, I said, you know what, I'm throwing out everything I've heard from college, everything I've

seen from college, draft reports, combines, pro days, throwing it all out. Because now I get to see them in OTAs, minicamp, and real games. And that's how I'm making my assessment. Well, everything that's happened has given me very little information about what J.J. McCarthy really is. And I feel like I have to do that again. Like those first two games, there was some good, there was some bad, just throw it all out. It just doesn't really tell us a whole lot. There's all the reasons for Atlanta. There's the struggles for the rest of the team against Chicago, which I thought let McCarthy down and then he bailed them out at the end. It's a little bit of good, a little bit of bad let's just cancel it all out now we need to see the bigger sample size we get that

huge gulf of time in between throw it all out and now j j mccarthy begins anew this is like a hard reset of your computer shut it all down delete all the files and upload it fresh on sunday against the detroit lines that's how i'm looking at it degree of optimism it's hard to say i mean i do think though that what we saw in camp what we saw now i know i just said throw out the good and the bad we saw flashes though of things that he could do and we've seen this supporting cast we've seen this coach workout before so i want i want to say that even though the 11 win thing which i get thrown in my face from time to time of oh you still got him for 11 wins well i didn't know carson wince was playing my friends but uh i don't have him at 11 wins but i would say that i think

if J.J. McCarthy plays six good games the rest of the way, that we give, let's say, a B or higher for the rest of the way, that would be a huge success. And I think that's attainable for him. I don't want to take a bad game, a bad quarter, and say, oh, we know what he is. We don't know what he is. And being able to say, we truly don't know what he is, is the right opinion as maybe lukewarm as it might feel to end this podcast. So great questions. Thank you guys for that and hey let's try to make it a fun week because Carson Wentz no longer starting the season as I said a hard reset let's have some good discussion I know how ugly the situation is in a lot of areas of this team but McCarthy coming back is the most exciting thing to happen to the

Minnesota Vikings since the Chicago game really so we'll have maybe a good time talking about and maybe a lot more discussion about what has gone sideways and where they can go from here. So thanks, everybody, for watching slash listening, and we will see you back in Minnesota for the roundtable with myself and Manny and Murph. Thanks, guys. See you later. Football.