Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Can we rank NFC QBs in a smarter way? And CJ Ham isn't going anywhere

Episode Date: March 25, 2023

Matthew Coller and intern Haley English talk about her analytical look at the NFC Quarterbacks and where they rank with supporting casts included. Where would Lamar Jackson rank if he was in the NFC? What does it say about why the Vikings are running it back? We talk about whether there's a move that could make the Vikings true contenders and break down CJ Ham's return. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to another episode of Purple Insider, Matthew Collar here along with intern Haley English who is just coming off dropping some hot hot fire in her most recent article. Actually Haley it goes back to a conversation we had last week about the NFC quarterbacks and you ranked the NFC quarterbacks only you included Lamar Jackson just to ignite the internet as much as you could. So what is going on? How are you? I'm doing well. Yeah. I liked ranking these quarterbacks because there's not a lot of great ones right now in the NFC. It's a lot of mediocrity and new names. So yeah, it was kind of a fun thing. But the interesting thing about it is that despite the mediocrity,

despite the fact that you could go through this whole list and maybe there's not a single hall of famer and then if you just peek over at the afc there might be four hall of famers over in the afc and even the average quarterbacks are pretty good it's like deshaun watson is not even considered a great afc quarterback and just a couple of years ago he was thought of to be an elite quarterback in the nfl it's amazing how quickly things have changed. But the fundamental question was, if we put Lamar Jackson into the NFC, where would he rank? Like, how would that look? Because naturally, although things change quickly, but Vikings fans, when they got a little sniff of one ESPN reporter suggesting the Vikings could go after Lamar Jackson, it was like, you know, riding that high until a Hendon Hooker mock draft came out,

and then they got to fight with each other about that. But if Lamar Jackson was in the NFC with this group of quarterbacks, where would he sit? How would that look in comparison to the other quarterbacks in the NFC? Yeah, he'd easily be one of the best quarterbacks in the conference right now in our ranking that we did. So like the score that we came up with, he would have the fourth best or he would be the fourth best quarterback right now in the NFC behind Brock Purdy, Jalen Hurts and Dak Prescott. And that's mostly due to his EPA per play.

It was fourth best if you stack it up against all the nfc quarterbacks since 2020 again that doesn't include his mvp season um and he hasn't kind of been the same player ever since he's been riddled with injuries and everything so um hopefully he can get back to like where he was on he's also had the seventh best epa per pass so obviously he's a much better runner than passer but again the ra the Ravens surrounded him with awful receiving weapons. So if you stack up all his receivers from last year against all the NFC, they were the 12th best in terms of PFF grade. So yeah, the Ravens haven't done the best to give Lamar the weapons he needs,

but they have had the second best offensive line, if you look at it compared to the NFC. So if you give him a great receiving core and couple it with a good offensive line, he will easily be one of the best quarterbacks in the conference. Right, and I should explain that your rankings, what we attempted to do was to combine the supporting cast and the value of the supporting cast with the quarterback and their EPA. So when you say Brock Purdy was the best, you don't think that Brock Purdy is like Patrick Mahomes, but he kind of played that way when he had a great offensive line, great weapons,

great play caller in Kyle Shanahan, which we didn't really try to figure out, but that's baked in to the performances of those other players. And with Lamar Jackson, what really blew my mind is that last year, his highest graded wide receiver that actually got a decent amount of targets ranked 58th in the NFL by PFF grade. I mean, think about how different that is from the other NFC quarterbacks like Brock Purdy, who's got Debo Samuel in all pro. Brandon Ayuk, who has exploded onto the scene. In Philly, Jalen Hurts has two elite wide receivers. Kirk Cousins has the best wide receiver in the NFL. Even Dak Prescott, whose supporting cast was not as good as the others, still has C.D. Lamb.

And here's Lamar Jackson throwing to a tight end and XFL wide receivers. And I think that we can eyeball that one and say that if he was dropped into playing with a Justin Jefferson, like that, that's a good question. Like how much value would it be the difference between playing with Justin Jefferson and playing with an average mediocre to bad receiving core? I actually liked looking at this because if we drop Lamar into, let's say the Vikings and the lions, um, into their situations compared to where the Ravens were, he's actually like going to be exactly the same just because the lions and Vikings don't have the offensive lines that the Ravens do. They do have better receivers obviously, but the offensive line

compared to the Ravens is like 15 points lower in pff grade average um so it's kind of hard to predict because he would be going into such a different situation and I don't know how he would do with like kind of a bad offensive line um so yeah the only teams where his score like that we calculated, would be higher on, would be the 49ers, the Eagles, and the Cowboys, where Purdy, Hurts, and Prescott are right now. So I think the interesting thing about that is, can we truly separate offensive line performance from the quarterback? Because when you're talking about the Lions and the Vikings,

you have Jared Goff and Kirk Cousins, who are the most immobile quarterbacks in the nfl i guarantee i've joked that i'm faster but that's not true you're a good athlete you actually might be i mean neither one of those guys can move at all so it's like drop straight back and whatever pressure happens happens with lamar that's very different and at least from the vikings perspective they were good in terms of run-blocking grade last year. So that might boost it up even if the – like Lamar Jackson can make up for those problems,

but he can't make up for having receivers who can't catch the ball or get open. So I think that by the numbers, that's what it says, but also kind of common sense is if there's pressure up the middle, Lamar just runs away and does something with the football where it impacts Kirk Cousins. But I think that, you know, even though the offensive line is problematic for him, Jefferson brings it up. So Cousins plus his supporting cast is still very good. And I think that was another thing to look at as well is that one of the reasons the Vikings can't just sort of rip it all apart aside from making Justin Jefferson very unhappy in a year where they want him to sign a

contract extension is because they know that as of right now, if Lamar was not in the NFC or does not end up in the NFC cousins on your ranking list ends up fourth, which you're kind of right there, like right there in position. Although with golf, you did three years. So two of his years were bad. And last year he was very, very good. But even if we still kind of factor for that, there's a good chance he's a top five quarterback in the NFC. So you could see where the Vikings would not want to just trade them away and play Nick Mullins for the year and win

three games. Exactly. Like Kirk Cousins, he was above average in the NFC with obviously Brady and Rodgers kind of done with the NFC and leaving. Yeah, Kirk, from the past three seasons, he had the sixth best EPA per play. That's actually tied with Derek Carr. So I kind of found that interesting because they are kind of similar quarterbacks. And then he also had the fifth best EPA per pass, so slightly better because he's obviously not a running quarterback.

And he did that with the third worst offensive line last season only. So, yeah, their guards were awful at pass blocking. Both Cleveland and Ingram had pass blocking grades of like 55 and below, which is kind of something you don't want to see in an offensive line for pass blocking, but they were good at run blocking. So it's kind of like, what do you do with them? But yeah, Kirk Cousins had the fifth best wide receivers. Losing Thielen, that really doesn't bring that down for next year because he was declining. He was kind of below average and you're replacing him with the next guy up on the list, I think was Josh Oliver, who you brought in, who was kind of graded the same as Thielen.

So not the biggest difference. Right. And how much Josh Oliver plays or has an impact. And, you know, they just signed Brandon Powell, who's like an end of the bench kind of punt returner receiver. And we're still wondering, are they going to draft someone? Are they going to add somebody else to that list? Or do they plan on just playing big personnel, which we'll talk about a little later with CJ Hamm, and then having Justin Jefferson and KJ Osborne? Don't really love that plan, but there is still a big hole there

that last year Adam Thielen's decline, I think, hurt Kirk Cousins quite a bit in comparison to previous years. But one thing that is fascinating about your list and very, very telling is Matthew Stafford, Kirk Cousins, Jared Goff, Daniel Jones. A lot of these NFC quarterbacks are so impacted by what is around them. And you see from, you pointed out in your write-up about Matthew Stafford, where in the Super Bowl year, he's one of the most valuable quarterbacks in the league. And then one year later, when his offensive line falls apart, Cooper Cup is hurt, he's banged up. Then he's like a total replacement level

quarterback, which I think is what we saw in Detroit from him, where there would be really good years for their offense and then years where they struggled a lot. But I think that we can really pinpoint now just when you have an okay quarterback who's good enough, it really depends on what's around him. So if Darren Waller has a huge impact, or we saw it really with Brian Dable and Daniel Jones, I think that there was a lot of examples of this in the NFC. Yeah, definitely.

Stafford was the weirdest one on this list just because if you take away last season, he'd probably be at the top of the list. He had a negative 0.06 EPA per play last season. That's kind of towards the bottom of the list. I don't know how many quarterbacks are actually above that. And he did that with the worst offensive line. They averaged a 53.3 pass blocking grade.

That's god awful. You don't want any of that in an offensive line and that's kind of a fall from the graces I know the whole Rams team kind of did that um but Stafford did take a step back and he kind of needs that offensive line and the continuity that's not injured there so he was definitely a weird one and then Daniel Jones yeah he was ranked 13th on this list um with a score of 28.1 um But he did have a great, I wouldn't say great, it was like an okay last season. He did good running the ball, again, not great throwing the ball. But I think a lot of that comes from Brian Dable, which we kind of didn't account for in

this. So yeah, definitely a weird thing with the NFC quarterbacks. Now, what about the wild cards? Your vicious hate for Justin Fields has been chronicled on the show. I'm just kidding. But, you know, the Internet, if you say any reason to criticism, it's like, why do you hate my favorite thing? Or people who are totally uncriticized at all say like, man, I'm just showing I'm just proving the haters. Like, wait, no one even hates you uh but aside from that um justin fields his supporting cast has improved but hasn't improved a lot or enough for us to get a good idea if justin fields can be a success and then there's other guys too that you know are unproven jordan love sam howell baker mayfield oh baker mayfield to some extent

you know we kind of don't know but all of these guys could be impacted by what's around him quite a bit like baker mayfield could suddenly look average again because he's got a couple of good receivers but i'm not sure that justin fields it's enough with the offensive line to to give it to like really truly protect him as much as he might need with a guy who holds onto the ball that long. So what did you make of some of those quarterbacks that there are major question marks about? Yeah, we'll start with Justin Fields just cause I, he always ends up at the bottom of my rankings, not even try like his stats are just bad, like, and people give me criticism for it, but I'm like, I can't help his stats. I'm just kind of showing what's there.

But yeah, on this list, he was the worst quarterback in terms of EPA per play, worst quarterback in terms of passing EPA per play, even below like a Desmond Ritter who kind of really had a bad second half of the season when he actually started. Justin Fields' offensive line was not great last season, and it's projected to, again again not be great next season I think it's projected to be the second worst out of the NFC still with adding uh I forgot who they add Nate Davis I think was the guy yeah um including him so yeah I don't know that like they need more pieces on that offensive line especially if he's

going to be a successful running quarterback like Lamar Jackson. Their receiving grade did go up. He did have the worst receivers last season. They averaged a 63.7 receiving grade. Next season, they did add DJ Moore. That boosted that up to a 69.2. That's still a little below average, and likely they need to add more if they want to find out if Justin

Fields is the guy and I don't see him taking the biggest step forward this season just because they again haven't added the pieces they kind of need yet so far if you look at someone like Jordan Love I feel so bad for Jordan Love because the Packers have left him with zero receivers I know this is like a Vikings podcast but like I want to see him do well just because I feel bad for him that he had to sit for his first three seasons after Rodgers had two MVP ones. So yeah, he's got Christian Watson

and that's about it. The Packers PFF receiving grade next season is projected to be the worst in the NFL at 65.2. That's just above what the Panthers have, and they traded away DJ Moore, and all they really have is Adam Thielen. So, yeah, Jordan Love will have probably the second-best offensive line in the NFC, but some of the worst receivers.

And, again, that's the same thing with Andy Dalton and the new Panthers quarterback. We'll have a decent offensive line, but they're not set up for any sort of receiving success. Yeah, a fascinating development this year was just the extreme lack of available wide receivers in free agency. If you have a group of wide receivers that you need to improve, you better be doing it through the draft. And as far as doing it right away, who knows? And that's, you know know people were making fun of Adam Thielen for saying the Panthers are a Super Bowl contender they're certainly not right now I mean not even close but if they draft Bryce Young if they draft CJ Stroud and then have receivers

develop or then can spend that money in free agency next year on whatever receivers come out or make a big trade they possibly could be because they've been drafting defense for a while and so forth, but not right now, not with that group of wide receivers. The fields thing is interesting because I think that it majorly swings on Chase Claypool. The original version that we saw of Chase Claypool was really good in Pittsburgh and then just never repeated itself. And I think that if there's one misstep from Ryan Poles so far in his young career as a GM, it's trading a second round pick for him. When I don't know if anybody

else in the world is giving up a second round pick for someone Pittsburgh wants to get rid of. Usually if Pittsburgh likes a guy, they keep them. And there's a reason that they let them go like Antonio Brown, for example. But I am a little intrigued, I have to say. And I know that no one else in the world is by Sam Howell, because Sam Howell was talked about as the potential number one quarterback two years ago. And then he drops to the fifth round. But then Washington really likes him. And I tend to have just a little bit of trust for coaches. They've seen how he operates behind the scenes. He looks pretty comfortable in his one game that he played. And I actually think if, you know, with Terry McClure in there, they've got some weapons for

him to work with. Like, would you be shocked if that's the guy we're going, Hey, no one saw it coming with Sam Howell. Yeah, definitely. I, I like the situation he's in. Um, he's the 12th bestth best quarterback ranked on this list, including his supporting cast, which he's got an average offensive line and a little above average receivers going into next season. type of quarterback this upcoming season with what receivers he has around him but I definitely like how they kind of set him up for at least decent success and better success than Jordan Love and the Panthers quarterbacks are set up for right now yeah for sure I mean you're right about Jordan Love and that was the one thing that was not talked about a whole lot with Aaron Rodgers last year is that their offensive line really did fade for the first time in a while they have had great pass blocking and there are certain quarterbacks who are more impacted than others. And I think Rogers used to be a guy who wasn't hurt as much by it,

but now is, which we'll talk about Rogers and the jets. And if it's happening at some point a little later in the show, but make sure you check that article out. Purple insider.com really, really well-written Haley. You're doing super cool analytical stuff and I thought this was a great spin on just quarterback rankings in general

trying to statistically add in the context which we we always kind of just eyeball it but you were able to actually put numbers to it I wanted to talk a little bit about the Vikings and where they stand right now because I was looking at DraftKings Super Bowl odds. And let's just say that they're not all that particularly kind to the Minnesota Vikings at this moment. They just do not see, the gamblers right now don't see the Vikings as any sort of Super Bowl contender. How would you stack them up? In fact, they're actually quite a bit behind the Detroit Lions. So you could tell me if you think that that's fair. How would you stack the Vikings up right now?

Let's say they didn't make any other moves. This is the team. This is your roster. You're going forward for next year. Where would you put them in your Super Bowl odds? So I definitely have them below the Lions just because Jared Goff had basically almost a very similar season to Kirk Cousins last season, and the Lions added an entire defense over free agency, and they've got picks to even make that any better. So yeah, I definitely think the Lions will probably win the

division. I do think the Vikings can challenge for a wildcard spot. Right now I have them behind the Cowboys, the Eagles, probably the Saints, definitely the 49ers, and then maybe the Seahawks and Giants. So I think that puts the Vikings kind of challenging for that wildcard spot. Obviously, they do need to add cornerbacks and a defense, likely, I guess, through the draft now and hopefully a replacement at guard. I don't know. I'm not the biggest offensive line person, but Ed Ingram stats aren't the best, especially in terms of pass blocking.

So I think that's kind of what they need to do going forward. But I've got them behind those teams right now. You're so nice to say aren't the best. He allowed the most sacks ever in the PFF era for a guard. And look, I mean, these players develop, right? So you're talking about a rookie, but even with a big jump, you might be able to approach average unless it's one of the biggest turnarounds that we've ever seen. And that's the thing is that when you talk about the weaknesses of the Vikings roster, and you included this in your write-up as well, that there's just not an opportunity to fix them. That's always the issue is if you were concerned about the way Ed Ingram played last year or Ezra Cleveland in pass blocking, he was very good at run blocking. But if you're concerned about that, there's nothing you can do about it. There's just no like, oh, we'll just spend a bunch of money. Whereas the Lions, there was big concerns about their secondary and there was a lot they could do about it.

And so here's another interesting part, too, about those two franchises is they both actually have expensive quarterbacks, but the lions were able to spend all this money because they had high draft picks that they hit on that are still like remarkably cheap at this moment. Aiden Hutchinson is becoming a star and he's cheap. Penny Sewell, Amin Ross, St. Brown. Like this is what happened to the Vikings in 2017 with Daniil Hunter, Stefan Diggs, you know, those guys and Eric Hendricks, you know, those guys and Eric Hendricks, like they were all cheap and they're all playing huge roles on their team. And yeah, I think that like, this is the fundamental issue that Vikings fans have with

where the team is right now is the way that you just talked about them is the way we always talk about them going into a season is like, well, you know, maybe if they had this or maybe if this or that goes right or whatever, then they can be some sort of contender, but it's kind of hard to see unless something else happens for this team. Yeah, definitely. And I think the NFC is going to be a little weird this season because the Packers are going kind of downhill with Rogers gone and the Buccaneers, even though they weren't great last year, Brady's gone. So if you take those two teams out of the equation, those two teams are going to challenge for playoff spots with those two quarterbacks.

So I think Baker Mayfield's not going to get it done. He's not going to lead the Buccaneers to an immediate playoff berth. And I don't think Jordan Love, with what he has around him on the Packers right now, are really going to lead him to any sort of wild card or division title or anything. So that's why I think the Vikings have a little more of a shot than they may realize. So, OK, then tell me how they could get there. Like, what is the there isn't it's hard with a move, right? Because the one move that could get them there would be if they get Lamar Jackson, then you're probably a favorite in the entire NFC. Is there anything else they could do? Let's just say, let's just take the

cap situation off the table and assume that they could make the cap space if they really wanted to. And there's a few more buttons they could push if they were absolutely desperate. Is there something they could do that would make you go? Well, maybe because like you said said it's not a conference that is super terrifying exactly i actually threw out derrick henry's name um i don't know entirely like how good he's gonna be because he's i don't want to say he's on the decline but like he's getting up there in age and everything but he's proven that he's an amazingly talented running back. And I don't think he'd be that expensive, but obviously you'd have to give up some draft capital for that.

Or you can swap him for Dalvin Cook. I don't know. That's kind of interesting thing. Or like, what if you traded the farm away for Patrick Peterson? Or not Patrick Peterson. Who's the Patrick Sturtan? Yeah. And for the Broncos.

So trading like something away for some star player on defense is kind of the, like the move I thought of. Yeah, I know. That's a good point that there's probably only two ways you could go. Now you bring up Derek Henry and I'm sure that half the audience went like, what running back. However, when you look at the numbers and I'm sure that you the audience went like what running back however when you look at the numbers and I'm sure that you have when it comes to their rushing EPA it was horrific last

year not just bad horrific like one of the worst in the league now Henry might be just as washed as Delvin Cook so that doesn't seem like it's but we don't we don't really know if you were given peak Derrick Henry and I guess that would be the know if you were given peak Derrick Henry. And I guess that would be the point. If you were given peak Derrick Henry, then you would be talking about maybe 50, 60 point difference from where they were last year. And that would take their offense. If you added 50 points to their offense last year, then you would have been talking about a top five offense. And that's, people have asked me about like drafting Bijan Robinson or something, and I'm completely against drafting running backs and so forth. But if they can repeat what they did passing wise and improve in the running game,

then they do have a chance to be better than they were last year. So I think that's a legitimate point. But the problem that you still end up getting held up on is Byron Murphy should help them a little, but you still have so many questions in that secondary. And even then too, like we're just assuming Lewis scene is going to start, but we don't know if he's going to be good. Harrison Smith is returning. We don't know if he's going to be able to kind of be better. We think so, but he's also in his mid thirties.

That's the one holdup is you end up saying look at their schedule next year of quarterbacks how can you improve the defense enough to convince me that you're going to be able to get deep in the playoffs exactly like the defense like the big saying like defense wins championships like I 100% believe that like you saw what the Patriots have done and all their Super Bowls they have like the number one or top five defense every single time. So yeah, the Vikings, they need secondary players. Again, like you said, Byron Murphy, he's going to be good. He's definitely a good add for that defense, but you've got to get another player.

Ideally, a really strong coverage defender out there. Yeah, I guess the way I look at that is your offense is going to get you there ultimately, but you probably need to win at least one game with your defense to get to the Super Bowl. All right. And obviously Philly did this because they hurt the other team's quarterback, but they also demolished Daniel Jones in Philadelphia with their defense. They didn't even have to have a great offensive performance in that game. So I think that that does kind of hold true that even when the Rams or the Bengals got to the Super Bowl, the Bengals had to pick off Ryan Tannehill a couple of times. The Rams had to make big stops in the Super Bowl specifically because their

offense went cold for half of the game. Like you can't have a defense that is just so porous, it falls apart. And even Atlanta, the one team that went to the Superbowl with a horrendous defense, which was Atlanta, they got up 28 to three and then their defense couldn't hold the Patriots down. So yeah, I, I agree with that. You have to at least be good or at least be good enough to get hot. And I don't think that they've been able to do enough so far this offseason with davenport with murphy and bringing back harrison smith to say confidently oh it's going to be way way better uh than it was last year so i think that the gamblers are probably fair but they shouldn't be done if they're trying to win this year which they've done weird things with the cap to kind of insinuate they are then they should they should still be looking for uh potential improving moves which by the way they extended their fullback now

let me ask you a question hayley so in in my lifetime i have seen the fullback become a dinosaur uh as a as a youth for me fullbacks were like a big deal. Every team had them. They ran all the time and, uh, you know, they were Lorenzo Neal plowing through for LaDainian Tomlinson or whatever, you know, whatever these guys played a lot. Uh, what does the fullback mean to you? Because you just in your time watching football, you have seen this role basically dissipate into almost nothing outside of one or two teams. Exactly. Like the only teams that I kind of see like really use a fullback well would be the 49ers, Kyle Juszczyk, and the Ravens with Ricard, I believe.

So I feel like if you have a good fullback and have a good scheme for him, and can somehow incorporate him, then great. But teams that – like I don't think it's a position that's of need for really anyone i don't think there's necessarily like a great benefit to having one on the roster like i'll take the jets for example they just re-signed their fullback and i don't think he took one snap on offense last season so i'm like why are you wasting a roster spot for someone that's not going to do anything. So it kind of goes both ways. If you have a great scheme for a fullback, then great. Use a fullback, pay him a little bit of money to

score a touchdown on the one yard line here and there. But if you don't see a need for one, then like, don't even bother. Yeah. I think probably just special teams for a lot of, and that was part of the extension for CJ Hamm. He played 360 special team snaps last year, which is a lot. That adds up over a season. If you're playing on every single unit, your special teams coach is going to want that guy. But as far as on the offense, CJ Hamm was used on less than a hundred run plays last year. I think it was 91. The year before it was well over 200 because the Kubiaks love their fullbacks. Do you have, before I dive more into this, how they can use him more,

is there a favorite Jets fullback that you have or are they just not relevant enough? Because, I mean, they used to have one named Fred Baxter who was pretty awesome, and Fred Baxter is a great fullback name. But I don't even know if you would have a favorite fullback. No, I couldn't tell you the name of any of the just fullbacks they have nick bauden right now and i i don't even know who came before him so yeah they had uh john connor who they called the terminator which is a you ever seen terminator movie no no gotta watch it you it. It's great. It's if you're, if you're sci-fi

ish at all, Terminator is amazing. Anyhow. So I think that we, what we were talking about with your supremely galaxy brain, they should trade for Derrick Henry and actually run the football successfully. I think that that is part of the reason why they're bringing back CJ Ham, that they want to run the ball better and the other thing is too that they just were not able to get teams to bite on play action last year I think that's a big part of it Kevin O'Connell at the Combine mentioned that teams were playing like deep shell coverages to try to stop Justin Jefferson more against them than anybody else in the league like I do think that if you have a competent guy, the opposing defense never faces this and doesn't really know what to do with

it. So I think O'Connell, as he looks himself in the mirror has to say, okay, we're probably not getting a superstar number two wide receiver. Like how do we be different? And as funny as it might seem, you kind of have to go back to what they were doing a little bit before with

using more two wide receivers and then the bigger personnel. Yeah, definitely. I like what you said about the biting on play action because like no one was scared of the Vikings running attack last season. Like Dalvin Cook has slowly been declining and the offensive line again, wasn't amazing. I mean, like it was okay and run blocking, but you have an okay, like run blocking offensive line. You't amazing I mean like it was okay and run blocking but you have an okay like run blocking offensive line you should be good at running the ball and for some reason the Vikings just couldn't get anything going there and then teams start like doubling up on Josh and Jefferson because they're not afraid of the run game so if they can find a way to use TJ Hamm and try to make the run game a little more scary, then I think it's worth bringing him back.

And the other thing I noticed was in the data that they, in 2021, lined up CJ Hamm in line at the line of scrimmage a lot. And that was something that Kevin O'Connell basically didn't try at all. So you can use a lot of different packages, things like that with the fullback, even if that player isn't a weapon, but the other team has to take it seriously because he will just run over your nickel corner if you keep a nickel out there. So do you put an extra linebacker? Like, I think that that was one of the things that O'Connell should be looking at much more this year is it's so rare that someone even has a competent fullback. If you have one, find a way to use them. And I think that's part of the extension. Let's see. Okay.

So I also want to talk to you about this. Did you see the Josh McCown video? Yeah. Where he may have spilled the beans. We are Josh McCown appreciators here on the show. You are from seeing him with the Jets. But Josh has to understand there's microphones everywhere. So when he tells CJ Stroud, can't wait to play basketball with you in Charlotte.

Maybe that spilled the beans of who they're going to draft. I want to hear your hot takes though on the quarterbacks this year. I mean, who do you think should go number one? If you particularly like or don't like one of these quarterback prospects, like it is the season to have extremely overconfident opinions on quarterbacks in the draft so let's hear yours okay cool so since the Jets are not drafting a quarterback this year I'm not extremely like I haven't looked into them as much as like I would have if they were drafting one um but I feel like I've always been Bryce Young number one overall I don't know entirely know why I always think that but I just feel like I've always been Bryce Young number one overall. I don't entirely know why I always think that,

but I just feel like that's my consensus ever since the college football season. So I think it could go either way between Shroud and Young, but I think they're going to go 1-2 to the Panthers and the Texans. Actually, I'll make a hot take, and I don't think the Colts are going to draft a quarterback at four. I think they're going to put themselves directly into the Caleb Williams and Drake May sweepstakes. I don't think they want to waste a year trying to develop an Anthony Richardson,

and I really don't understand the hype with Will Levis other than that he can throw really hard. So I don't think the Colts will draft a quarterback and I'd also think that the Lions will go with Richardson at six um I don't think the Cardinals will draft one either like they'll put themselves right in the Williams and May sweepstakes um but I think Richardson needs some developing so I think sitting behind Jared Goff could be good. And then final quarterback hot take is I think Levis is going to fall all the way to the Buccaneers at 19. I don't think he's going to pan out well at all. I feel like he's kind of a Zach Wilson type of quarterback. He'll have a great throw and everyone will be

hooked on that, almost like what Cam Newton just did the other day at the Auburn pro day. Um, but yeah, I think he's the biggest candidate to bust in the draft. And I think the Buccaneers will probably take a chance on him. He's still sitting there at 19. That is a, okay. So you brought some flames there to the conversation. Interesting enough, by the way, and and this is this might be your next assignment um for writing wise because charles davis and it doesn't matter mocks don't matter of course they don't tell us what's really going to happen exactly but he just did a mock where he has will levis dropping and the vikings picking him and we had a hendon hooker mock the other day and so i think we need a little more investigation into Will Levis because I watched a couple of games of Will Levis. And I think you would have had to tell

me that he was a prospect if I didn't know it because he didn't really look like it to me, the way that he played. I felt the same way about Desmond Ritter. When I saw the tape guys being like, does this Desmond Ritter, man, he's the top quarterback in the draft. I was like, what? I never saw it when I was watching him. So, but also there is an argument to say that, look, any quarterback that the Vikings draft is a good idea just on its face. And I don't know if there's a great way that we could predict if someone is going to succeed or fail. So I would probably have to say it was a good idea, even if I have the same reservations about it as you do. Yeah, I think I didn't include, I forgot about Hennon Hooker, but I think him to the Vikings wouldn't be horrible. They do, like if they want to win now this season,

like don't draft a quarterback in the first round, obviously. Don't do what the Packers did. But I think letting Hooker develop, especially because he's coming off of, I think, ACL, right? So, yeah, I think letting a quarterback develop could be great. If he falls, like, pretty far, like almost like how the Liberty – Malik Willis kind of fell. But I never thought he was going to be great anyway, so I understand why he fell, but if hooker falls kind of further than what everyone's expecting,

and the Vikings were able to pick them up pretty late in the draft, then I'd say, go for it. Yeah. That is a different conversation. If they were, it's like all about the value. If you can get hooker later,

but then in my mind, if he's only a third round prospect, like what are we doing here doing here you know you want to go all in on your next big guy and that was that is the thing about levis is if you pick him you can develop him for a year but you can also know after a year so you can have him around your team you can have him in practice and you can either go like we've got our guy or uh-oh we drafted we drafted the wrong guy. And maybe it ends up like a Paxton Lynch situation or something, who's getting benched regularly in the XFL these days, if you've been paying attention to that, which I know everyone has. So, I mean, I love your overly confident takes, as we all should have at this time. Here's one, I didn't ask you to prep this, but maybe you can search your memory bank.

Did you have a take from the past on quarterbacks that turned out to be absurdly wrong or, or like hilariously right. Even though, you know, we're all just guessing. Um, I thought the Browns were making a mistake drafting Baker Mayfield over Sam Darnold um number one overall mostly because I wanted Baker as a Jets fan and I was kind of disappointed when the report came out like a couple hours before the draft that they were going to draft Baker um but I actually think that was the right decision um because Darnold was kind of awful um but just in general I think quarterbacks like need to sit for a year after they're drafted. Trevor Lawrence didn't have a great rookie season and came out and was this kind of amazing quarterback in his second season.

Dak Wilson was always horrible. Patrick Mahomes sat behind Alex Smith for, I think, almost a year. So I really think you need to sit behind a quarterback and learn the offense before you just kind of are thrown out there. Yeah, and I think that's a great argument for the Vikings picking one this year in any way that they can toward the top, and it has to be a first-round prospect in my mind, but you can really try to set them up for the most success.

That 2018 draft is one that sort of lives in infamy for everybody because I wasn't a huge fan of Baker Mayfield, wasn't a huge fan of Sam Darnold because he turned the ball over like crazy in college. And then everyone's like, oh, no, it's no big deal. Yeah, no, it is a big deal. If you throw lots of interceptions in college, this is the same thing with Jameis Winston. I was like, no, I'd be fine. Like, no, it's not like you shouldn't throw any interceptions really in college.

And loved Lamar Jackson as a prospect. One of the Vikings to take him. He turns out to be a star. Was totally against Josh Allen. Was totally for Josh Rosen. So that's the best evidence. Depending on which parts of the story I tell, I get to be a genius or a fool. And that's every single draft with quarterbacks, which is what makes it so interesting.

My best, though, was that when Mahomes was drafted by the Chiefs, I tweeted, Mahomes will be the best quarterback in this draft, and here we are. So, again, you can pick and choose and make yourself pretty smart or pretty silly. And that's why, even though you and I both feel the same way about Will Levis, if they took him, I'd be like, okay, all in. Like, that's a great pick because at least you've got a shot at having that quarterback

turn into a star uh two quick things or i guess really one more quick thing how you feeling about rogers he's not on your team yet he's not a new york jet yet and now like this has become a if we've got nothing else to talk about on espn you guys just want to yell at each other about rogers and the jets and who has leverage for like five minutes? Perfect. How are you feeling? Is that going to happen? Is it not going to happen? Is he going to quit and be a life coach in Venezuela?

Or what's going to happen here? No. He will be on the Jets at some point. I just don't know when it will be. They just traded Elijah Moore, which I have his jersey. He's the only active Jet I have who I had his jersey. So that wasn't the best. But I get it.

I understand, like, he was – I don't want to say team cancer, but, like, kind of because he requested a trade in the middle of, like, a five-game win streak. So I get it. Like, the Jets didn't believe in him, and they just signed McColl Hardman, too. But they did, like, move up from the third round to the second round to, like, in the more trade. So now they have back-to-back second-round picks. And I think one of those will go to the Rodgers trade. There's no way Joe Douglas is giving up number 13.

Like, he's not. I think, like, so, like, my proposed trade right now is that the Jets will get Rodgers and then some late-round pick for Corey Davis. I have them throwing in Corey Davis. A second-round pick, so either, like, one of the two second rounds they have back-to-back right now in this draft. And then a fourth in 2023. That could, like, become a third if they make, like, the AFC Championship game. That could become a second if they make the Super Bowl. game. That could become a second if they make the Super Bowl.

So something like that I think will be the trade. I just think the Packers are very hung up on getting pick number 13 right now in the draft, but the Jets know they kind of need that to draft an offensive lineman. So I think that's the biggest standstill now. But I feel bad for Jordan Love again in this scenario because he's not like, he's officially not the Packers starting quarterback until the roster or until Rogers leaves that roster. And I feel like he kind of might get mad at the organization for like

letting this drag on so far because they know they are moving on to him and kind of have made that clear. But I think it might give him a look a little bad taste in his mouth if they just don't trade rogers anytime soon i think that both of the teams are so motivated to get this done that they will uh but it could just take a while like there there is really no hurry they probably got another month i'm sure that the packers are going to want immediate draft capital so you can run it all the way up until then and have these negotiations. But at the end of the day, Rogers is not playing another snap for the Packers. The Jets have already made it very clear, like wink, wink, nod, nod on their social media. And also there is a rumor that Odell Beckham is interested in the Jets. I guarantee you,

Odell Beckham would not be interested in the Jets if he's talking about playing with Zach Wilson or, you know, Kellen Clemens or whoever, Ray Lucas, whoever you have there, other than potentially Aaron Rodgers. So this is going to happen, but I just want to make you a little nervous if possible about this situation, because you were so excited. Before we wrap up, any Vikings questions for me? Okay. So I've got one. It's kind of the – what's the funniest, like, Vikings fail or something of a play? So, like, the Jets have the butt fumble. The Colts have that play where they lined up a center

and I don't even know if it was a quarterback, and they just got tackled by the Patriots. And the Cowboys did the same thing against the 49ers. And, like, the Patriots have that, like, Kobe Myers throwing directly to Chandler Jones and running it back for a touchdown. So do you have anything for the Vikings like that? Oh gosh. Well, you do have a 27 yard field goal from Blair Walsh that would have won a playoff game. And then, so there's always like funny little tentacles to all these stories. And then

the next year in training camp, Blair Walsh did not kick any field goals from 27 yards during training camp. And I don't know if that was his request kind of knowing him a tiny bit from covering him. Maybe it was just because he was a very sensitive kicker. So that that's pretty funny. Uh, one of the great fails that they had was it also involves kickers and punters, was they trade. It's not exactly on the same lines as like the Cowboys trick play. Although the jet sweep to CJ Hamm this year, they ran a jet sweep on a third down to CJ

Hamm, the fullback, and he was just immediately tackled. And then there was another one where they tried in the playoff game to run a pass play from Jefferson to Kirk Cousins, the slowest quarterback in the national football league. And guess what? He just got smacked and it didn't work. So all of actually every Vikings trick play completely failed this year. Delvin cook tried to throw a pass at the goal line and he got stripped, but there are like other fails that are funny.

Also Blair Walsh did a thing where a bunch of children like sent him all these notes saying like it's okay that you missed the field goal and then there was like media attention for this it was really funny but i think one of my favorite fails ever was the baltimore ravens had this kicker slash punter cory vedvik and i don't there's no reason you should have any recollection of this. And of course they have Justin Tucker and they had an established punter who was Tucker's holder. So they were not keeping this player. So the Vikings were nervous about Dan Bailey in training camp because they're always nervous about kickers. And they traded for this guy, Corey Vedvik.

And his first training camp practice, there were like fans going crazy for every one of his field goals. It was like, all right, we got this freak who's going to kick and punt. Mike Zimmer said he might kick and punt. It was the whole thing was absurd. He gets into actual preseason games, misses like all of his field goals.

And then they're like, maybe he's a punter. And then he punts, outk's a punter. And then he punts out, kicks his coverage. The bills in a preseason game, return the punt for a touchdown. And it was over. They gave up a fifth round draft pick for the worst kicker slash punter. And, and, uh, it was an immediate fail all the way around. So there's, there's a lot, there's lots of, I mean, funny little fails on a daily basis from training camp. Uh, there was a time where Laquan Treadwell dropped the pass or got yelled at or something in training camp. One of the reporters tweeted it out and Laquan

responded by saying, scream out my failures. I don't even know what that means, but it was hilarious. And we still say it. So yeah, I mean, you could go down a rabbit hole. If you go back and look at the 2021 handling of every late half and end of game situation, lots of fails ensue there. So yeah, their usage of timeouts during Mike Zimmer was hilarious. Yeah, there's a lot of them. So that's a great question. I don't know if it's anything quite to the level of what the Cowboys did putting Ezekiel Elliott at center, but that's a good one. Vikings fails or something. People should tweet us some more that come to mind for them. But anyway, great stuff, Haley. Awesome, super fun article

ranking the NFC quarterbacks analytically with context with Lamar Jackson. I struggled with the headline because that's what I wanted it to be, but that doesn't read that well. But you're doing great work. It's great to have you. Another fun show. And we will talk again next week. Awesome. Thanks. See you.