Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - CBS Sports analyst Chris Trapasso talks Darnold decision, Turner vs. Verse

Episode Date: January 8, 2025

Matthew Coller talks with CBS Sports analyst Chris Trapasso about how his opinion has changed about Sam Darnold and how the Rams are still good despite an all-in approach Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here and joining me on the show, it must be March or April, is that Chris Trapasso, CBS Sports Draft Analyst and the official draft analyst of Purple Insider. But Chris, you've spent the last, what, four what four off seasons as our draft analyst doing a weekly show with me which means that we spent hundreds of hours you've gone to the last two nfl combines with purple insider all this time talking about team building but you haven't had any opportunity to talk about playoffs from the team that you've been analyzing from a front office perspective with me. So I figured, hey, it's playoff time. Who better to bring back than you,

Chris Trapasso. How are we doing, buddy? I'm doing great. And when you reached out to me, it was like, at first I thought it was going to be, hey, want to start up the draft talk? Because I'm used to that the last couple of years, but it's like, wait, they have a playoff game. They won 14 games. And I'm super excited because like you said it's like I feel in a weird way like a secret part of the Vikings front office where I've just been watching these these picks come in the last four years we've talked about them at length you called the Jordan Addison pick a few years ago right before the draft and our final mock so to just watch this team from

afar a different conference in the bills that are in my backyard has been really a lot of fun because it's not just like hey i remember scouting so and so it's like i remember having long discussions with matt and the purple insider crew about these last four draft classes and a lot of the really good free agent moves that quacey adafo-Mensah has made to build this into a 14-win team. And even going to Kwesi Adafo-Mensah press conferences at the Combine, doing podcasts, breaking them down. So you have a great perspective on the journey that this roster has been on really since Kwesi Adafo-Mensah got here. Very much so, because when you go back to when Kwesi Adafo-Mensah arrived, it was Kirk Cousins, a quarterback, Adam Thielen's the wide

receiver, and Delvin Cook's in the backfield, and on the defense, it's Hunter and Kendricks, and so forth. And they have completely revamped so many parts of this team, including the quarterback position. So I want to get your opinions first on the quarterback position. I also want your look at the Rams and how they've rebuilt so quickly, despite the F them picks approach that they took on and some salary cap issues as well. But Sam Darnold, you actually helped me with a story before the season where I called you and said, Hey, what did you think of Sam Darnold, you actually helped me with a story before the season where I called you and said, hey, what did you think of Sam Darnold when he was coming out anyway? And what are his chances of having a big year under Kevin O'Connell?

And we talked about some of the shortcomings that he had, some of the reasons he was drafted at the top. And I think by the end of our conversation, you said, yeah, I could see it. I could see him having a good year. I don't know if anybody saw him having this kind of year though. No, definitely not. I mean, I'll be the first to admit, I didn't see him playing the borderline elite quarterback play. Like I, I didn't see that from Sam Darnold. I don't remember exactly what I said to you for that piece, but that we talked and this kind of goes

back to our draft conversations when we were going over all the different quarterbacks the Vikings could select and plugging them into the system, we're like, one thing's for sure, this is the best scenario. I mean, we heard so much about, oh, you know, Caleb Williams is getting such a great situation with DJ Moore and with Keenan Allen, and then a presumed at the time top 10 pick at receiver that ultimately turned into Rome Odunze we were like whoa whoa wait a minute the Vikings with their offensive line

with the established defensive system that's going to keep them in games and can force turnovers with Brian Flores, Justin Jefferson, Jordan Addison, TJ Hawkinson coming back we were like this is actually a great scenario for whether it's JJ McCarthy or Drake May or just Sam Darnold to be that stopgap and to be like Case Keenum 2.0 where he gets the ball out quickly. He's great on play action. And that's what Sam Darnold did. He was like a more talented version of that Case Keenum magical run of six or seven years ago. So I didn't see it coming, but I wasn't shocked when he started off really well because he is that quarterback that is a veteran that's been on what four teams at this point been in a bunch of systems was with Kyle

Shanahan in San Francisco so you get that Kyle Shanahan coaching tree branch there and I mean I'm not I'm not gonna say that I expected this him, but he was able to flourish in this situation that was created by the GM. Yeah, I think when it comes to the Darnold versus Keenum comparison, I know that you know where this diverts. It's in the raw talent of the player. Yes, definitely. When Case Keenum, the other thing is too that there's another guy in the mix here. When Case Keenum was the quarterback in 2017, as that thing went on, there was a debate over whether it was real or not. And I don't think that there's any debate over whether Sam Darnold is good anymore.

Now that may have sparked up after the game against the Detroit Lions, which was an outlier for his season and one of his poorest games. But when you look over the 17 game sample, he was by PFF standards, the seventh best quarterback in the league. You could put him right in that mix in the second tier behind the obvious MVPs, which are the big three burrow, Allen and Lamar Jackson. And after that, right in that range, right. And there have been times where he has in certain games taken too many sacks, but there's also been games where he's made plays outside of structure that previous Vikings quarterbacks couldn't make. There's been

rocket arm throws, tight window throws, Justin Jefferson. I just saw one of the fantasy people put out a graphic that he had the second best fantasy season of any player in the NFL. And of course that drove their success in winning, but he had chemistry with Jefferson down the field, passing all those things that Kevin O'Connell wanted in a quarterback. And it's funny because when you bring up Keenum, I think of how we would view this season. If JJ McCarthy was not the draft pick, if they had drafted somebody else with a defensive player, whoever it might've been, as opposed to Sam Darnold, I think we would be looking at this and going, wow,

the Vikings out of nowhere, just got their franchise quarterback. Whereas when it happened with Keenum, because he was a journeyman backup, he wasn't a top pick. He wasn't all that big or fast. It was much more, hey, this is a magic carpet ride that's coming to an end. And I think what's kind of been lost on some Vikings fans that are like weirdly bummed about what's happened this season with Sam Darnold. And this is coming from someone that was not high on Darnold, by the way. Like I had him as my quarterback four in that class. I thought he should have been like a late first rounder.

The turnovers at USC were very concerning to me. He's 27 years old. This is not signing Ryan Tannehill at 33 and going, let's hope to get a couple of good years out of him. Or the Falcon signing Kirk Cousins and saying, oh yeah, maybe mid thirties Kirk Cousins can get us to a NFC South title. He's 27. So I remember that was one other key point that in the 2018 draft, he was like the youngest, I believe he was like the youngest top three pick ever, or to start week one at the quarterback position. So he's not someone, yes, he's a journeyman,

but Sam Darnold has that legitimate first round caliber talent. And he's been in a lot of places and is not way over the hill in terms of his athleticism and being out of his prime, so to speak, in the NFL. So do you think that from what you've seen this year, combined with what you know from Darnold's past and what you thought from the draft they're all data points it just depends on how much you weigh all those different data points if he was to be the Vikings quarterback for next year can he keep doing this would be the question because if they do bring him back for next season, the expectation will be very high for his performance. You're going to expect 35 touchdowns again.

You're going to expect 4,000 yards again. So is that plausible for them to say to Sam Darnold, we're going to franchise tag you or short-term contract or whatever it's going to be, but you also have to go out then with Super Bowl expectations for next season. So here's where I land on this really, to me, fascinating Sam Darnold conversation. And again, this is coming from someone that was not nearly as high on him as the Jets were in 2018. To answer your question, yes, I think there's no reason, and he didn't show anything this year, even with that last game outlier, that makes me think, man, if he comes back, he's just going to regress and turn into rookie year with the Jets, Sam Darnold.

Now, having said that, if the Vikings say, you know what? You were great. We don't think you can do it again. We're going to turn to J.J. McCarthy. Okay, that's fine. Do I think if he goes to the Pittsburgh Steelers without good receivers and a bad offensive line, is he just going to be great and throw 35 touchdowns and 4,000 yards?

No. I think the talent is there, and he is, I don't want to say totally scheme and situation dependent, and most quarterbacks are. It's hard to find those just totally transcendent types at the quarterback spot. But in another environment, I would feel much less encouraged by the chances of him doing it. In Minnesota, I mean, yeah, there's not a ton of youth on this roster

in terms of, I mean, like you mentioned to me off air that they don't have a lot of players playing snaps on their rookie contracts. But Justin Jefferson's entering his prime. Jordan Addison will be going into year three. Hawkinson is not 33 or 34 years old. You get Christian Derrissaw back, who's young. So in Minnesota, yes, I think Sam Darnold can come close to replicating what, like you mentioned, was a top 10 to top 7 quarterback season with the Vikings next year.

I think the biggest thing you'd be looking for in that evaluation is, well, how much is going to change? And the answer is not very, not very much. And despite a lot of people's usage of over the cap.com you can also bring in a new guard potentially to replace some of the troublesome guard play that they've had for this year. And you can do things in free agency still around a one year situation like that. But I think that that's probably the best approach here. And it may change with what happens against the Rams and in the playoffs. We don't know. We need to see the entire picture before we decide that.

But I look at it as there doesn't need to be a rush. Even if you still view JJ McCarthy as the franchise quarterback, which they have no reason not to, uh, they loved what they saw in the off season. He played extremely well in training camp and in the one preseason game, but it's also a way to split the difference of continuing to develop McCarthy. So he's absolutely ready to play, maybe overly ready to play when he arrives on the scene and then also continue to compete with this group for a Super Bowl with the quarterback that got you to 14 wins. Yeah. So two last things that I want to say on Darnold. Number one, just look right in the division. I mean, it's, it's,

it seems obvious, although the situations are slightly different, like the Packers didn't really rush Jordan Love onto the field. I know maybe people thought that they ended things a little bit too early with Aaron Rodgers, but really now we look back and say, nope, they cut it off right at about the perfect time. He wins the two MVPs back-to-back and then didn't play quite as well and then said, oh, hey, you're our franchise savior for 20 years after Brett Favre, but we're just going to let you go now.

And at that point, Jordan Love takes over. They have that 2023 draft where they draft Jaden Reed and Tucker Craft and Luke Musgrave, and they have Romeo Dobbs there. And they really are, like you're saying, Jordan Love was almost overly ready to be the starter at that point. J.J. McCarthy, again, he's not one of those 24, 25-year-old rookies. He's younger. So I think plugging him in when he's had multiple training camps, multiple years practicing, learning coverages, just really, and this sounds simple and maybe oversimplified, but getting acclimated to the speed of the NFL, how quickly cornerbacks close on the football, how quickly that 320-pound defensive tackle can get into your lap if you don't throw the NFL, how quickly cornerbacks close on the football, how quickly that 320 pound

defensive tackle can get into your lap if you don't throw the football. I don't think that would be a bad situation at all. And we never really see that quarterback redshirt season anymore. The two most recent ones that we've seen are Patrick Mahomes and Jordan Love, both of which have worked out really well. And those guys started ultimately and were injected as the full-time starter to really good teams that were ready to compete, that were playoff caliber teams. And Jordan Love got that team within a few plays of the NFC title game last year. And we know what Mahomes has done in Kansas City. So it's really a very good problem to have,

especially like you're mentioning the key point. there's not going to be a lot different offensive personnel wise. And you're not losing your offensive play caller because he's, you know, a hot name after going 14 and three during the regular season. So I don't see any reason why Sam Darnold can at least come very close where it's not really discernible of a difference to playing as well as he did this year in 2025. So before we get to the playoff game, your official opinion,

if Kweisi Adafo-Mensa was calling you and saying, you know, Chris, you know this team inside and out, you've covered it, you've covered our drafts, you've covered our front office, what do you think I should do with this Sam Darnold, J.J. McCarthy thing this offseason? I would franchise tag him. I think it's on the table. It's part of the CBA. Maybe players wouldn't love it. Feels like Sam Darnold, after where he was at the start of this offseason, would be like, oh, you're going to franchise me? I don't even know what the exact figure would be, but probably, what, $45, $50 million, somewhere in that range. I think he would probably take that. From everything that I've seen on social media,

it seems to be the locker room stuff is all good with him. He's not like Russell Wilson in the corner. Like he seems to be really well-liked. He likes Minnesota. Of course, you know, winning 14 games obviously helps. I would franchise tag him and just say, we are thinking of the long-term with JJ McCarthy, but we also realize we can win 14 games and come one game on the road in a very raucous environment away from being the number one seed in the NFC. I think it would be silly to do anything other than franchise tag him. Now, if they wanted to do something like you mentioned to me off air, a three-year deal that's really a two-year deal and it's front-loaded, okay, I'll be fine with that too, but I think a franchise tag, and they've used it before with Kirk Cousins,

that's a franchise that's gone multiple franchise tags back to back. I would just do that with Sam Darnold. The last thing that I wanted to say that I forgot earlier, not necessarily Vikings fans or your listeners, but in following that game against the Lions, the rest of the NFL fandom, media members, not all media members, I guess.

It was insane to me. And I actually tweeted it. How quickly everyone turned on Sam Darnold. It was like all year. And again, this is coming from someone did not love him coming out. And I, and it's hard to kind of break away from your draft opinions, but when a guy's playing well, you got to say it. I was sitting back like, man, all of a sudden in this system, Sam Darnold looks like the guy that we all thought, you know, was the third overall pick and was going to be great. And there was just heaping praise on him all season for literally 17 weeks.

He doesn't pull the trigger on a few throws, has some high passes against a very opportunistic kind of beat up, but opportunistic Lions team. And it's, oh my God, he's terrible. He's seeing ghosts. And there's pictures of him with the Panthers and with the, with the he's terrible he's seeing ghosts and there's pictures of him with the Panthers and with the with the Jets and he's just saying I'm like what the hell do people not understand like an outlier and I tweeted like it was primetime bias and recency bias coming together in like the ultimate primetime game the last game of the regular season

it was just astonishing to me how everyone else just like that turned on Sam Darnold after what has really been a remarkable season, not just for Sam Darnold, but like you mentioned, based on and relative to any other quarterback in the NFL. Folks, it's a wonderful time of year in football, and there's a perfect dad hack that I want to tell you about that will get your kid to love Minnesota football the way that you do. It is called future fan sports at Christmas time. I gave this to one of my friends and it worked like a charm. Future fans helps little kids become big football fans by embedding the rules of football into parallel

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use the code purple to get 10% off. That's futurefans.com, purple and unlock a lifetime of memories together. Yeah. One quick thing. It was Washington who tagged cousins, but what the Vikings did was you're right. You're right. What the Vikings did though, was along the same lines.

They short-term had a Kirk cousins. That's how they've ended up with some of this dead cat money from him as they kind of crammed his extension in to make sure that they weren't locked in for a long period of time, which could be somewhere along the lines of what they do with Sam Darnold. But to your point about the overreaction, it just would not be the NFL if people didn't overreact. However, he is 14 days separated from throwing for 377 yards against the Green Bay Packers in one of the best performances of that rivalry against a top five defense. I think what ultimately happened against Detroit was he was jittery off the start and then was let down after

that by the pass protection by Justin Jefferson, having two extremely uncharacteristic like drops. But that's one of those classic games where there's just domino effects everywhere. If Jefferson catches a touchdown in the back of the end zone that goes off, then ginkles drop and that. And then at the end, of course, Detroit is just too much. And they've had the ball for too long. And then the score looks way different than really the way the game was playing out.

It's not to argue that Darnold was in any way good. It's just that there were opportunities for the game to turn. They never really did. Sometimes that happens in the NFL. Josh Allen went nine for 30 in a game this year. That's life. Jared Goff threw five picks in a game. Darnold just picked the worst time

to have after winning nine in a row, by the way, picks the worst time to have a lot of things go wrong against the best team in the NFL from start to finish in the league this year. So yeah, that's a, it is a high bar that's been set for Sam Darnold. Basically, if he's not just Patrick Mahomes all the time, then they should get rid of him, according to some folks. It is crazy to watch. I digress. I want to talk about, too, the construction of this roster, though,

because it has been fascinating. A lot of times in general accepted football team-building theory, you're always supposed to do it like the Lions. You're supposed to tank. You're always supposed to do it like the lions. You're supposed to tank. You're supposed to draft a bunch of people and you're supposed to hire a good coach and then off you go, get the quarterback and you're going to be a great team. Now that strategy does work a lot. As long as your franchise isn't a bus fire like the jets or like the Chicago bears, I would even bet on Carolina over the next couple of years to

do a lot of those things. Yeah. Bus fire, I think, right. Yes. Maybe, but maybe, uh, they'll be able to rebuild, uh, around tanking. But the point just being that the Vikings did not do that. They did the competitive rebuild style and they made it work a lot of ways through betting on players that they thought were ascending Jonathan Grenard Blake Cashman even Andrew Van Ginkle who was an established player but they thought there was more to that and those three moves alone ascended this defense to a top five defense and none of these guys were former top draft picks, Chris. I'm just curious about your view on those guys and those signings and how they've ascended to top-notch players at their positions when they never really were that before. Yeah.

So we talked so much about that competitive rebuild, I think in each of the last like three off seasons and that you, I think meeting with Kwesi at the, um, like exclusively at the combine with like a few other beat reporters that you came back to me and you're like, they're not trying to totally tear this thing down. Like they understand how important it is for job security to even just get to the playoffs in a year where you're not really expected to. And that was maybe 2022 where they got, you know, went 11 and 0 in those one score games, had some crazy victories and then ultimately lost to the Giants at home. But it's not a three and 14 stain on your resume. And you're right. Like people in this day and age are, oh, if you're not going to be good. And like, we've talked about

this, like, and have kind of leaned toward if you're not going to win the Super Bowl just tank because that process you get higher picks you get more selections you just get rid of everything Kwesi I think is the executive of the year in the NFL unless there's someone I'm that's obvious that I'm missing because he was able to remain competitive and like you said go from these household names that it can't be easy for a GM to say I'm gonna be the GM that's gonna let Danelle Hunter go like you mentioned previous guys like Eric Hendricks and Delvin Cook and I'm gonna bring in a lot of players that Vikings fans are gonna say who's Andrew Van Ginkle and Jonathan Grenard and it whether it's just he has a great algorithm for a model to predict these guys out of the draft, or he's in lockstep with his coordinators and his head coach, which I think that's probably key as well,

to find the right pieces for Brian Flores' defense. It was transcendent for this defense to kind of go two for one and say, all right, we know Danell Hunter is going to be good in Houston, but we're going to let him go. We're going to bring in two like above average guys and hope that they can play even a little better. And Grenard 80 pressures during the regular season. Van Ginkle to me was like,

I think almost just as important, if not the most important player on the defense, because anytime that I would kind of peek into either watch a Vikings game live or on a Tuesday or Wednesday, watch film. It was like, he was everywhere doing everything with the multiple pick sixes, blitzing from the a gap on the outside,

sinking in coverage, doing everything. He was the perfect guy for Brian Flores. So that I think is of course, Casey would, would ultimately win the award for executive of the year, but I think it's a collaborative effort where sometimes the coaches say, hey, I kind of need this kind of player. And either he doesn't really know what

kind of player he needs or the GM doesn't listen to him. I think they were really well in lockstep with each other to bring in someone, even like Blake Cashman, that I remember watching at Minnesota. And my algorithm that I have, my little model that I have, had him as the number three linebacker in the 2019 draft because he was crazy athletic and productive at Minnesota. Smart by Kweisi to understand, hey, he was injured early in his career, finally healthy with Houston in 23, really good, and they don't really value him because it was just a one-year prove it deal. Maybe he's priced himself out of that organization. Let's pick him up and he can be that free ranging

guy at the second level. So those three additions were huge and none of them broke the bank and they're getting extreme value, like way more value than they ultimately paid for those players. Even Byron Murphy, obviously as well with the six selection or six interceptions or really good job on the free agent market to identify those mid-level guys that with some key pieces around them and a good coaching staff can play to almost elite level caliber during the season. And that's what those players did for the Vikings.

I think it's a great point about the collaboration. We really seen that is the coaching staff. They make the list and the general manager is able to go out and get it in the front office and negotiating contracts and not, I think one of the hardest decisions was not bringing back Hunter because he had such a great career as a Viking. Now, if Hunter had come back, he would have been awesome and they would have won all the games. But getting Grenard has been a better fit for this defense.

You've seen him drop back in coverage. Sometimes you've seen him use different rush lanes, things like that, as opposed to just kind of being locked in on one side in one type of role, which we saw from Daniil Hunter and Hunter's production in Houston has been phenomenal. I expect no less. He's just one of the best out there, but Grenard was quite a bit cheaper and they could sign him for multiple years because he's also younger than Daniil Hunter has less mileage, less injuries. And then to see him ascend like this, I think that's the bet that they were trying to make is the last couple of

years. Grenard had been kind of coming along in Houston. And then they also understood the type of person he is, the work ethic that he has, the drive, the myriad of, you know, pass rush moves and things like that.

I think it kind of all had to be seen ahead of time that there was a possibility he ascended. I don't know if they thought he was going to finish in the top three in pressures in the entire NFL, but I also feel like this is what we're seeing from a Flores defense that whether it's a sixth round draft pick like Josh Metellus, or if it's a highly paid free agent, you're very likely to get the best version of these guys if you are putting him in Brian Flores' defense. Yeah. So I always kind of sprinkle in like the perspective from the Bills angle, because that's where I'm at. This is very similar to what Brandon Bean did with in like the early stages of the Josh Allen era

that, I mean, yes, they traded for Stefan Diggs. It cost them a first round pick. They paid him big money. But like the Micah Hydes and the Jordan Poyers and the John Browns and the Cole Beasleys, it was always like, you're going to just be super cheap and, and sign a bunch of bargain bin guys or do the big ticket item when it feels like the smartest GMs in the league find those mid-tier players

and they diversify. You're right. Danell Hunter probably would have had 70, 80, 90 pressures with the Vikings this year. But if I think Kwesi thought, and probably after talking with Brian Flores, would you rather have Danell Hunter that's a little bit more static, he's not going to move around much, be awesome, or would you have someone that might get about 90 of that production and andrew van ginkle and maybe give us a little more leeway to sign blake cashman they went with the more let's diversify the talent in case there's an injury or in case someone doesn't play up to snuff then you have other fallback options and i think that was a smarter way of doing it it's what the the Bills have done. And now in the NFC, the Vikings have really found not only the right scheme fits, but those, like you're saying, ascending players that aren't bottom of the roster, one year, $2 million deals, but a right

mid-level that aren't going to break the bank and they can still be motivated to play their best football. And I think Grenard, Van Ginkle, and even Blake Cashman, and certainly Byron Murphy have all played as well as we've seen them in the NFL in Minnesota. Now there is an interesting dynamic in this playoff game between two of the highest picked edge rushers in the NFL this year. Jared verse has turned into an instant star with the Los Angeles Rams. We mentioned those pressure numbers. Well, his name is up there among the best in the NFL, where as with Dallas Turner and you'll have to let me know what you thought coming out, because I don't think either one

of us saw it coming that they would want to turn Dallas Turner into more of an Andrew Van Ginkle type of player. I mean, either in his role where you saw the interception that he got against Seattle, great play from him, but I didn't expect him to be dropping back in coverage as much as he has been. The other thing too, is when you have Van Ginkle and Grenard and Patrick Jones, who had a good season this year, there's just not a whole lot of space when you're on a super competitive team to be playing a guy 50 or 60 snaps. That said, I also think that Dallas Turner is not there yet. As a pass rusher, you see him get

eliminated easily too many times by tackles because I don't think that his body has fully developed yet. Whereas Jared verse is three years older than Dallas Turner. But I think there's gotta be some people saying, uh, why didn't you draft Jared verse, which we always do, uh, after the fact. Yeah. Your last point there is why I bring up and we talk so much about age during the pre-draft process that it's athleticism and what's their RAS and how many pressures and this and that. That's a gigantic difference. Three years difference where when Jared verse was 21,

he was on SUNY Albany and was not even on Florida state yet. And you're asking Dallas Turner to try to beat Penny Sewell around the corner. Like it's just a different part of their career arcs. Now I am a little surprised that they've kind of asked him to play that Andrew Van Ginkle role, but I think it's because like you mentioned it and it's spot on to me, his body's just not there yet. He can't really set the edge.

He was good at Alabama setting the edge and getting up blocks, but even going from the sec to the NFL, it's a different animal. So I think in time we'll see him more in that Jonathan Grenard role that will still, if Brian Flores is still the coordinator or they keep his system if he moves on and gets a head coaching gig, that they'll still utilize Dallas Turner and Jonathan Grenard dropping back in coverage, but it'll be more of a traditional edge rusher role. Jared Burse was clearly way stronger. The speed to power

conversion was there. I thought he kind of reminded me of Khalil Mack. There were a lot of those comparisons rolling around and those were like seniors that were, you know, very much experienced, had played a lot of football and had an NFL frame so I think that was another pick similar to the J.J. McCarthy selection that was really more long term in mind than let's try to win right now but again when you bring in two players on the edge in free agency that you know are ready to go in Van Ginkle and Grenard you don't need Dallas Turner to be this 75 pressure rookie, just like the Vikings clearly did not need JJ McCarthy to win 14 games.

Okay. So where does Jared verse fits within this defensive line of the Rams? Because I think if the Vikings have a biggest concern, especially the way they struggled to block for Sam Darnold, it's by far the Rams D line. But if you had told me when Aaron Donald retired, that I would be talking about being afraid of the Rams D line, I would have said, I don't think so, man, not without Aaron Donald. And yet they have found a way to create, I think one of the more dangerous lines in the league. And a lot of that has been through the draft.

Yeah. And for as funny as it was to watch the the rams and this is coming from a draft analyst like win a super bowl with the f them picks philosophy what always was behind that and i think jordan roderick did a great job uh with her podcast this summer talking about that that you know she talked with less need and sean mcveigh and it was yeah we weren't really using any first-round picks for like seven years, but like to draft Apuka Nakua and then along the defensive line, Kobe Turner in the third round,

who was the runner-up to the Defensive Rookie of the Year to Will Anderson last year, Braden Fisk, who's a really ferocious upfield rusher next to him, and then Jared Verst in the back end of the first. It's like they've done a good job later in the draft to fill those holes or or to to find those diamonds in the rough later where it's after the first round where not as many people are watching the draft you think man who did the Rams get they didn't draft anybody well they've been able to kind of plug it in that

way um and they understand I think like like a lot of the smartest and best teams in football, that offensive and defensive lines, they don't necessarily just win you games. You need to have a good quarterback. Like you were really, I think a pioneer about with how important wide receiver is. And that's become the second most important position in football. The Vikings certainly know that with Justin Jefferson, the Rams with Puka Nakua and Cooper Cup, you have to have a good defensive line, a good offensive line to just be stable throughout a season. And then when you get into the playoffs,

that you're going to face a good O-line. You're going to face a good D-line. You have to be able to kind of counter what you're going to see up front. So what they get with Jared Versch, what they will see, the Vikings, is a power rusher, sets a sturdy edge, not going to win with, I wouldn't say a ton of burst and like dip and bend. Like that's really where we saw those glimpses from Dallas Turner. He's not that kind of rusher, but he's three years older. He has a much more of an NFL body. Um, and I hate to say he's physical. I hate to hear like, Oh, defensive coordinators say we're going

to be physical on defense, but like the physical nature to his game, I think is cranked up than most rookie edge rushers. The same is true with Braden Fisk on the inside. And then Kobe Turner is just a very athletic, formerly productive college player that is really just transitioned quickly. He was another one that was an older player coming into the NFL. So they've gotten like NFL ready players who are good athletes and were very productive in college. And I think that's why the Rams with those three in particular have gotten those guys to really hit the ground running since they've joined the NFL. Yeah. I just think it's interesting with the comparison with the two teams, because Kweisi Adafo-Mensah, when he first arrived in Minnesota, he made a crack to a reporter about going full Rams and you don't want to try to sell out for

one season, which I think is absolutely right. I mean, even with the Rams, they had to go on the road and win a playoff game in order to get to the Superbowl. Uh, things had to play out really well for them to go from the four seed to the Superbowl, to make that season work. And they did have a couple of tougher seasons to get back to this point. And there's still not a serious Superbowl contender with what they've put on tape, at least for the entire year. If you look at where they rank offensively, defensively, that's not really the profile of a team that goes to the Superbowl. It's always possible. It's just a long shot, I should say, to reach the Superbowl with this team. So they were impacted by giving away all those picks, but they've done

such a good job hitting on the ones that they had remaining, which will be a thing the Vikings have to deal with in the future because they traded so many of their picks to get JJ McCarthy, to get Dallas Turner, or either traded or just used those high draft picks to get TJ Hawkinson. Those are not draft picks, but I think what you find from these two teams is when you look around the league and you look at the Jags, the jets, the bears, maybe throw the Cowboys in this mix. There's just an organizational conduciveness to both of these teams that I think allows them to resolve problems, even when things go wrong. So even when the Los Angeles Rams are short on draft picks, well, we're going to find a way.

And one of those ways was to draft defensive linemen that could rush the passer. We're going to have to get them right. And for the Vikings, it was to spend smartly in free agency and reset their salary cap situation and take a swing on a high ceiling type of bridge quarterback, as opposed to Jacoby Bursette, which would have gotten you to probably seven or eight wins this season. I just think that this year more than any, that it has been the seas have parted and the incompetent franchises are over here and the ones with a lot of disparity and good front offices are over here. And these two are two of the premier franchises are over here and the ones with a lot of disparity and good front offices are over here. And these two are two of the premier franchises in the NFL. So they're

going to solve these types of problems. And like we mentioned with the Vikings, those mid-tier free agents that are sending players, the Viking signed Cameron curl. One of the, I think the best safeties on the free agent market last March that has been a very integral piece. He plays some linebacker. He plays in the slot. He's not really much of a deep middle safety, but that quality almost front seven player at the safety spot for them. They brought in Jonah Jackson from the Lions that certainly Vikings fans know well that when he's healthy, he's one of the better pass blocking guards in football. They trade for Kevin Dotson from the Pittsburgh Steelers where everyone's like, what's that's kind of a weird trade a guard.

And he's been outstanding. So they've been able to not only find the, you know, mid to late round Pukunukua types, but also do a very good job and be very prudent to say, all right, we have Matt Stafford, we have Cooper Cupp, we love Puka Nakua, but we still need to fill some key roles with those mid-level free agents because we don't have a ton of cap space, similar to what I think the Vikings have done. So it's not only to me such a fascinating matchup because it's two Kyle Shanahan coaching tree guys. And I think those games are always so fascinating and they're seemingly always very close just schematically because they know tendencies. They know, hey, it's third and one.

Are they going to do a jet sweep? How much play action? Things like that. It's really like you're mentioning how these teams have been constructed that are very, very similar. I think the GMs and the coaches being so tight knit and understanding the vision for both guys, the entire coaching staff, like you're mentioning the teams that are disjointed,

like the Titans that they had Mike Vrabel and they had John Robinson and then Rand Carthen, all this Chicago bears prime example. We, you know, obviously know how they've always had this weird process of having a GM and then a head coach and a quarterback and then firing them bills, chiefs, Rams, Vikings, Packers, all in lockstep with each other. Head coach and GM drafting well later even, even missing on some first rounders, but drafting well later and then those mid-level free agents. So I think the Vikings, to me, are the better team.

The Rams, I think, are a little bit or are very much susceptible in their secondary, where if you can block that formidable trio up front, there are some big plays to be made down the field. And they probably would like to draft a corner in April or sign a big name corner after losing Jalen Ramsey. But it's just going to be fascinating to see this ultimate chess match between two very similar head coaches and teams that have been built in a very smart and similar way. Okay, let's finish on this, Chris. Give me your most hardcore football-y factor, or if you want to throw two out there, in Vikings-Rams, and then tell me who you think wins the game. And look, as I've always

told you, there's no pressure that it's a Viking show. Most people probably are very scared Vikings fans. So, you know what, no pressure there for your pick, but, uh, give me a footbally factor and your pick. Okay. I'll start by saying this, that I know after losing that game, it's like, oh man, we got to go on the road in the playoffs. I don't think it's quite like an LA Chargers game, but if there's like one NFC, like good NFC team organization, like we mentioned that the Rams are and have established and shown that they are going to SoFi Stadium. I don't know if it's like the most daunting place to play.

If you had to pick one where you don't want to play on the road, but it would probably be that one. My biggest key, we kind of already talked about it, but like we saw in the week 18 loss to the lions will be the Jared verse cam Robinson matchup. And that's another guy that I didn't, you know, drop his name once to lose Christian Darasaw. I remember when that happened, we, I loved him during the draft.

We talked about how good he was. You told me he looks like an NFL, like franchise left tackle. When you first saw him in that opening press conference, he's been great. When that injury happened, I was like, man, there go the Vikings chances, like to not have that elite level player. And I didn't expect Cam Robinson to come in and play as well as he did. That's another one where like in season real time development on this coaching staff has been outstanding. Like I was watching those early Cam Robinson starts in Minnesota thinking, man, it's just going to be a liability. This is going to become a storyline. Like, man, if they didn't lose Derrisa, they could have really had something

this year. And Cam Robinson has been really good. Now, does that mean that he needs to totally blank Jared verse? No, I don't think so, but that mean that he needs to totally blank Jared verse? No, I don't think so, but you just don't want to have Jared verse wreck the game. And he, even as a rookie, I mean, he's older, he's 23, 24. He has that ability. So I think if Cam Robinson has just what he's done most of the time, have a quality performance, only two, three, maybe four pressures from Jared Verse. I think that would go a long way into, this is kind of my segue here, to Sam Darnold hitting those big plays down the field that we've seen off play action.

Not even just to Justin Jefferson, but to Jordan Addison, down the seam to TJ Hawkinson, Aaron Jones out of the backfield on wheel routes, on verticals. So because of that, I think Cam Robinson will be able to hold his own. He's played enough football and has played good in this system. The Vikings aren't going to necessarily have an easy road in this game, but the big play ability of this offense against what has been a susceptible secondary, there's not that marquee player. I mean, Cam Curl is probably their best player in the secondary and he's more in the box. Like I mentioned, I think they'll be able to just simply outscore the Rams in this game and move on to the divisional round. All right. We will see what happens there. How about your Super

Bowl pick? Who do you have representing the conferences? Have you thought about this yet? The Super Bowl is coming, Chris. Yeah, it it is coming i haven't i i think the lions being at home is going to be tough now and and this is obviously like a low-hanging fruit like the vikings were just there and they they got technically blown out but i think what you mentioned like they had all those red zone trips that amounted to nothing they played them a lot closer than that score i'll go lions out of the nfc and the Ravens at this point with how well the defense has surged down the stretch I mean in October I was like man this defense is not just like average which you can win a Super Bowl with an average defense it was bad it was not good Kyle Hamilton going from

like playing slot corner linebacker to strictly safety has been huge for this team they're super deep and then up front it's just so hard to stop what they do offensively because Derrick Henry or is Lamar Jackson going to keep the ball on that read option and run for 20, 30 yards. They get as much separation as any receivers in the NFL, Zay Flowers, Rashad Bateman. So Lions, Ravens in the Super Bowl. I just think the offensive lines and how dynamic those offenses are seem to be like the safest two selections for me to be in this year's Super Bowl.

Seems like Lamar or Josh Allen, the door is open for one of them who have unfortunately changed the legacy in the shadow. But you know, I remember, and so do you, when there used to be playoff intros, when the Colts were playing, where they'd be like Ken Payton Manning actually win a playoff game, you know, that kind of stuff. So sometimes it takes a while, especially when there is an absolute legend playing in your conference, but no legends in the Vikings conference, which I think leaves the door open for something special potentially, but they have to get past the Rams first. So Chris, thank you so much for your time.

As always, we will definitely be seeing each other again during draft season. No doubt about that, but I wanted to make sure you got in here and talked about these two teams before a real playoff game. So it was great to get together with you. Always appreciate your analysis and we'll definitely talk soon, man.

Yeah. Thanks for having me, Matt football.