Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - CBS Sports' Chris Trapasso scouts McCarthy, Nix and Penix Jr.

Episode Date: February 7, 2024

The Chris Trapasso Draft Show is back and CBS's draft analyst joined Purple Insider to discuss why he has Bo Nix and JJ McCarthy neck and neck in the race for QB4 and why Michael Penix Jr. is behind in his mind. How does he weigh circumstances? Would he suggest the Vikings pick any of them at No. 11? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here and I am inside Circa in Las Vegas. My last day here flying out tomorrow, but I've had a really good time promoting my book on Radio Row. But joining me, this does not slow down the return of the Chris Trapasso draft show. You begged for it. You pleaded for it. You wanted it back desperately. And now guess what, everybody? It is here. And you know what that means, Chris, before I even bring you in, we got to play the Chris Trapasso Draft Show intro. So let's go. Good evening and welcome to the NFL Draft. Draft season is here. Come on, come on. There you go. To break down every need. They're not going to pick a quarterback. They need offensive linemen.

They need defense. Every pro day. He had a phenomenal pro day. Explosive, really good in the three cone, the broad jump. And every mock. You could probably tell me if you think the Vikings would actually do it. I can tell you as a draft analyst that they absolutely should. Welcome to the Chris Trapasso Draft Show on Purple Ins purple insider this is a good podcast to listen to leading into the draft

there is no better intro in in sports podcasting especially with my awesome soundbite at the end this is the draft podcast to listen to leading into the draft what is this year four for us i think it's year four at least three is year four yeah because we started with the trey lansack wilson draft that's 2021 2022 2023 2024 it's really exciting i'm pumped it is and you and i are taking it on the road again to the NFL combine later this month. And I'm super pumped about that. That was so much fun last year. And this year we have quarterbacks to talk about last year.

We tried, we tried, and it sounds like they tried when it came to the quarterbacks, but there were only three dudes who were top overall picks and the Vikings could not trade up. Here's what I want to begin with. I know what everyone wants from you, what everyone wants from Chris Trapasso, CBS sports draft analyst, the guy who watches more NFL tape, college tape, all the tape than anybody I know. You've got your own grading system. You've done this for many years now. They want to hear your scouting reports on the three quarterbacks that are most likely to go to the Minnesota Vikings. And then they want to hear if you should trade up for jayden daniels instead so why don't we just go right from there let us begin with jj mccarthy from my perspective

i have been skeptical about jj mccarthy yet at the, the mock draft universe seems to think that he will go ahead of Bo Nix and Michael Pennix, but that depends on who you ask. If you think there are more reputable mockers, I don't know. Maybe there are not. Uh, some mockers don't think that, but the overall, the consensus is at this moment that J. J. McCarthy will go higher because of his raw tools rather than his production. So break it down. Do you think that JJ McCarthy is QB four and what would be the strengths and weaknesses of the Vikings potentially drafting him? So right now I have JJ McCarthy as my quarterback for slightly ahead of Bo Nix. And I think what's interesting about that dynamic is going into the senior bowl,

it felt like, hey, this is Bo Nix's chance. J.J. McCarthy's not here. We didn't know that Michael Penix was going to opt out of the game, but it felt like if Bo Nix just wows the coaches there with his 50 plus starts and how well he improved once going from Auburn to Oregon, he was going to be that quarterback four. Didn't really have that great of a week. Now, I don't really put that much into the senior bowl at all. I think it's kind of silly to move, especially quarterbacks, based on how they do in practice.

Not even the game practice, to quote Allen Iverson, with receivers that they don't even know, that they don't have the intricacies of how they like to get in and out of their breaks things like that but then after the senior bowl and we're just a few days removed it's like oh JJ McCarthy his stock went up because he wasn't there and he was not part of the quarterback group that was kind of lackluster at the senior bowl but before that and I've said any purple insider listeners over the last three years now going on four that have listened to this podcast on a weekly basis, no, I grade quarterbacks first. I like to get way out in front of it and just say, here's in early January as the playoffs are starting, I'm like, this is my quarterback rankings. And now I will say, I think in today's NFL, you have to factor in athleticism a little bit more at the quarterback spot than ever and probably a lot more.

So last year, I had C.J. Stroud as my quarterback one. And then Anthony Richardson tested better than we even expected. Like he had an all-time, regardless of position, combine performance. And he slightly eked out C.J. Stroud. Now, of course, now that looks silly because CJ Stroud had this amazing season but what I was happy about my process of doing quarterbacks first is that I didn't really fall in love with Bryce Young and during the the pre-draft process of scoring a 30 whatever 35 or 38 on the S2 and CJ Stroud scoring an 18 didn't let that really

factor into what I ultimately or how I ultimately graded those players. So right now, slightly ahead, J.J. McCarthy ahead of Bo Nix. He's younger, and I think that is huge. You'd say you want experience, and maybe for the Vikings, they do want someone that's a little bit more pro-ready, and you probably would get that with Bo Nix. But like you were hinting at Matt I think JJ McCarthy has a better overall skill set a little bit better of an athlete a little bit stronger of an arm and he's played a fair amount of football too this is not someone like Mitch Trubisky or

Mark Sanchez coming in with like one year as a full-time starter Bo Nix threw more passes and we can get to him in in a minute but a lot more screens, schemed open throws. That 77% completion percentage from Bo Nix, very inflated. I thought there were more classic NFL caliber throws from J.J. McCarthy. I don't adore him as a prospect, but I think he's someone that comes in a good amount of experience. And again, he's young, and the upside I think is there from his ad-libbing ability and just the arm talent that he possesses.

So what I was impressed by with JJ McCarthy is one, if there's pressure, he can escape. And I would expect that if he runs a 40, he's going to run pretty fast because I think he can scoot. And I was impressed by when he's on the move. So he's rolling out. He can make some really good throws on the move. Like he has this similar to Kirk cousins, weirdly, like he has this ability to sort of contort and twist his body and put VLO on it when he's moving. I don't know if he ever played baseball or something, but certain guys that played baseball kind of know how to do that. Jared Goff does not know how to do that. Um, so there's, you know, that is a skill that he has. And when he winds up and fires, this guy could throw the football pretty hard.

My issue with him is two, twofold. One, I'm skeptical about a quarterback who throws 18 passes in the national championship game. Like they did not like him to throw the football. Why do his coaches not want him to throw the football? I know run first, Jim Harbaugh, whatever else that's true. Uh, Andrew Luck threw a lot more passes per game than JJ McCarthy, even 10 years ago in a run first offense at Stanford. So I really wonder about that. And some of their, they, they were also so insanely stacked and I've kind of like half jokingly, but not always completely really call them like the young Stetson Bennett. Like he has just had such a great team around him. I wonder if we're getting a little fooled

by how good the team was. And if JJ McCarthy played for another power five team, that was just okay. Like, could we say that he was going to be a first round draft pick quarterback just based on those tools and not really the production necessarily to back it up? And I think that's more of a question. It's not me saying that they shouldn't do this if they love him, but it's more of a question that I have going into this process. Yeah, he's definitely not perfect. And just for perspective, he was where I have JJ McCarthy graded now pre-combine. And like I said, that could change if he tests through the roof and has a, you know, runs in the high four fives or four six flat and

has a 36 inch vertical, it'll change it a little bit. He is right between where I had Will Levis graded and Bryce Young graded. And maybe I was even a little bit too high on Bryce Young. And we saw that the lack of physical talent and just stature can really impact a quarterback and hinder him early in his career. To be a counter to what you said, I think all of that is true. The situation was very insulated at Michigan. There were times though, and maybe not in the key moments against Washington in the national title, but where it would be run play, run play, run play. And then like third and seven would come along and you would see that wow throw from J.J. McCarthy from the far hash where he was pressured. He kind of looked awkward, like, oh, maybe he should have hit his check down, but he missed him. him so he's forced to roll out and then he dropped it in the bucket like over the shoulder on a slot fade 25 30 yards down the field where you're like oh he can do that and like to your point why was

jim harbaugh not unleashing him a little more as he you know went into two and three years as a full-time starter i'm not totally sure and that's something that the vikings i think all those teams from like pick eight or nine all the way into the early 20s will probably have to ask about. Maybe even him, his coaches, his teammates. But I like that. I like to see the big time throws at the collegiate level. And it's something that if we're comparing because they are closely graded in my scouting grade book, J.J. McCarthy to Bo Nix. I didn't see as many of those holy crap throws from Bo Nix.

And he was doing that at 20. He's going to almost be 24 in his rookie season in the NFL. J.J. McCarthy's 21, going to turn 22. So two years of just age difference really matters in terms of the, of course, the ceiling for those players and how much more you can put on his plate and how much more he can be the focal point of an offense. You know, as he's 22, 23, 24 compared to Bo Nix coming in at that age as a rookie. Yeah. So this is a hard one for me with the age point, because I think that there have been a lot of young prospects who come into the league, and that's like a big benefit. Like, look how young this guy is.

He's 20 years old. This is great. But their weaknesses are still their weaknesses. And how can you resolve those? And I think precision with J.J. McCarthy is not always there. Ball placement is not always there. When he's dropping straight back in the pocket, hitting a guy on time over the middle, sometimes it's there,

sometimes it's high. Sometimes it's high. Sometimes it's off. And we saw that a lot in the last few games, but it didn't matter because Michigan was just better than the other teams. And so those miscues and then they punt the ball away and it's like, oh, well, like he really didn't do a whole lot against the good Iowa defense. And even against Washington, he didn't have to do a lot. So it was like, when, when do I get to see it? It's almost like this magical thing that exists in the minds of people who love his tools so much, but it's like, when do I get to see all this great stuff that JJ McCarthy is eventually going to do in the NFL, but didn't really do consistently in college. And I think that's where my skepticism really comes in, which of course, look, I had

skepticism on other players who were painted this way, but usually like skepticism on Josh Allen, the guy's six, six to 40 and throws the ball over the mountains. Like that's, that is different. And I probably won't do that again. When it comes to being skeptical of a freak, he's not a freak. He's kind of like a good athlete for the position, but not a freak. And what will be so interesting in this JJ McCarthy, Bo Nix debate, which I think we will probably talk about quite a bit over the next two months, is that what you were just hinting at and that I said that, you know, you would see the flashes, the, oh my God, that was a third and 18

that he threw a 20-yard dig through a tight window, but that was like the only really awesome throw of the game. Or like we're saying where Jim Harbaugh and that coaching staff really was like, all right, JJ, make a play here. Or he just did it himself. What I will say, though, that will be so interesting about that comparison is, again, Bo Nix, the 77, I think 77.4, 77.3% completion percentage, bubble screen, wide receiver screen, tunnel screen,.4, 77.3% completion percentage, bubble screen,

wide receiver screen, tunnel screen, drag route, RPO. It was like he's going to get labeled as the more precise thrower and that he's more methodical and he operates the offense better and he's more of a head coach's dream or an offensive coordinator's dream. They were not asking him to do like literally like late 90s quarterback stuff that Jim Harbaugh was asking like all right I formation we're on the left hash you're gonna do a play action fake it's gonna be a deep it's like a Chad Henney route that's gonna be a deep sideline route that you need to throw it across the field with anticipation and timing you would see that throw from JJ McCarthy. And that is 10 times more difficult than throwing three RPOs or three tunnel

screens and getting Troy Franklin or whoever in that Oregon offense to make a big play. So some teams that want to incorporate an offense or already have an offense similar to Oregon, we'll be like, Hey, great. Bo Nix is the guy. If you're wanting to do, and I kind of think it's a little bit more of what the Vikings want, the play action, the stretch play to the right, stretch play is the guy. If you're wanting to do, and I kind of think it's a little bit more of what the Vikings want, the play action, the stretch play to the right, stretch play to the right, bootleg off to the left,

make a contorting body throw, rolling left, which is kind of difficult to do for a lot of quarterbacks who aren't highly athletic. That's where J.J. McCarthy could come in. And I don't want to say right now, like I'm putting a stamp on it, that he is definitely the guy for the Vikings, but I think all your skepticism is warranted,

but I think what he was asked to do as a quarterback, not as high volume as Bo Nix, but just a completely different system. So it's really going to be personal and schematic preference, I think, with those quarterbacks. So it sounds like early Jared Goff is what you would need for JJ McCarthy, which is an older version of what McVay was doing with Jared Goff early on. But then with Matthew Stafford, it completely switched to the shotgun 90% of the time. I looked this up. I think it literally was like 85 or 90% of the time for Stafford shotgun.

And that's like throwing to Cooper cup and those little quick routes and then just doing something special every once in a while. Now there is no comparison in physical tools between Bo Nix. I'm going to move to Bo Nix here. Uh, Bo Nix and Matthew Stafford. There's just no, I mean, look, Matthew Stafford's one of the most gifted physically quarterbacks who's ever played. So that's not Bo Nix. But he did have to sort of do this point guard thing out of the shotgun. And sometimes I think it's hard to criticize a guy. Well, he had an easy system and absolutely killed everyone and was amazing and put up incredible numbers.

Like, how dare you? What number could he have put up that was better than 48 touchdowns and 77 completion now here's what i've liked and maybe you see it a little bit differently and so i'm not saying that this number is right and anything you've said is not but like from the pff grades when he throws over 10 yards he has a 95 pff grade and only had i believe it was one turnover worthy play when he was throwing the ball over 10 yards now it wasn't that often in comparison like he he did throw a lot of those screens i think 30 percent uh were screens so that's a lot of screen passes for any quarterback but when he did have to do that he was effective in doing it but then there's the quality of

competition thing where in his bowl game, he plays Liberty. It's like, huh? Like, can we see him play anybody decent? Right? So I think that the Bo Nix thing is a struggle. And when someone is 24, it's different to me as far as where they can develop when the guy's a great athlete. And I think Bo Nix, that's his thing is being a really, really great athlete runs sub 4-6 is what my expectation is I mean I I think that he could develop more into his 20s than maybe somebody else so I guess weigh all that for me with Bo Nix yeah so I want to just make sure that I'm being clear here like I've kind of been pro JJ McCarthy to kind of kick off draft season

I have them graded extremely close and to get inside the scouting grade book here, I have their accuracy graded the same. I think Bo Nix is actually a slightly better athlete than J.J. McCarthy. I think he's going to run faster. I think he's just more explosive of an athlete. It's not that J.J. McCarthy can't move. We know he can, but like what you were getting at, this was a dual threat top recruit in the state of Alabama Alabama goes to Auburn was like, Mr. Football down there. I think he's going to test a little bit better. I think JJ McCarthy has a little bit of a stronger arm. I think when he really kind of gears up, like you were saying to throw that tight window pass, he can do it at a little bit more of a successful rate or, or more efficiently than bone X. And I think with pocket

management, they're about the same and how they read the field is about the same. So with how I have them weighed those categories, JJ McCarthy just comes out slightly ahead. And to your point on the athleticism with Bo Nix, I think that's a good one that even at 24, he can still come in and by 26 can make his athleticism more functional and say, okay, well, maybe I can't do this. Like I did it like in the PAC 12 reverse my field and try to run to the left, but I'm

really, I'm just got down the bootleg. I am so good on that. I get really wide. I can get to that side of the field, reading that triangle read that are that's so big in a lot of offenses on that bootleg. Things like that, I think you probably have more potential regardless of your age if you are a good athlete. But these are two, I think, very similar quarterbacks. And I'm pretty sure right now the Vikings are doing all their homework possible. And this could even be, it's so close, this could even be going down to the interview process and getting them on the board and how the Vikings come away, their general manager and Kevin O'Connell saying, man, like JJ McCarthy was awesome on the board or Bo Nix, like, man, all they, he didn't really do anything. And they just had him throw

screens. He doesn't know how to read anything. so i think they're two very similar prospects not tremendous in any regard but they do fit the mold of the modern day franchise quarterback decent arms productive in college and they're good athletes who can create outside of structure and that's very important this is how ridiculous scouting is as a challenge is you're trying to compare a guy who's three years older in a completely different conference in a completely different offense versus somebody who's in a run first old school offense run by the Colts quarterback from the 90s who's handing off to Roosevelt pots and Lamont Warren. And then we're talking about like, you know, different, totally different offense, totally different conference, totally different situations and scenarios. And then we're trying to imagine, well, what would McCarthy be like if we went three years forward and put him over there? You're like, I don't know. And so that's where you have to really focus on the tools and kind of the pluses

and minuses. And then the hardest thing to know is exactly what you said is which one of these guys is going to see it better. Like which one of these guys is going to see the field better? Because to me, you can succeed in an offense with Kevin O'Connell. If you can see the field, if you can't, you are in a lot of trouble. And I think that was one of the biggest problems that Josh Dobbs faced was accuracy was an issue, but I don't think he saw the field particularly well. And he ended up like throwing into traffic, making bad decisions. And then Nick Mullins weirdly sees the field really well, but can't make the throws ends up with 400 yards in two games against Detroit. And you're like, what the, because he knew where to throw the ball and he could see the field pretty well. He just wasn't that accurate.

So like, how do we know which one of these guys has that? Yeah. And following Nick Mullins, when he played, like, I think the, the one of those 400 yard games, it was like, I was, I wasn't watching it live and I was following it on Twitter and seeing like, oh man, Nick Mullins is terrible. He threw another pick, get him out of there. And then I like see the end of the game and he finishes with over 400 yards. And I'm like, wait a minute,

he couldn't have been that bad if he goes for over 400 yards. I know the Lions secondary wasn't amazing. What I will say to kind of wrap this, like on these two, there is also a scenario where you could plug in JJ McCarthy or Bo Nix and they're both good.

Like either one is good. I don't think this is like, this is a Peyton Manning, Ryan Leafs situation where you've got to pick the right one because the other one might just be, you know, a gigantic draft bust. We've talked about it. We're going to mention it again, so let's just start it off in this first episode this season. The Vikings situation is really good, especially with a healthy

Justin Jefferson coming back, the offensive line, Kevin O'Connell being a branch off that Kyle Shanahan tree, what he's been able to do to elevate Josh Dobbs for a few games and get 400 yard performances out of Nick Mullins. Nevermind what happened with Kirk Cousins. We knew what we were going to get from him. So there certainly is a world in which whoever they pick is ultimately a pretty good player. And I think maybe they're a little bit inflated in terms of where they ultimately will go and they could be the 11th pick in the draft I don't know in a vacuum if I would pick them that high but we'll talk about this too positional value matters and for me the arm talent and the athleticism have to be there today if you're picking a guy where you're

like this is our franchise guy we want him for the next 10 plus years. They have to have a good arm and be athletic. If you look around the rest of the league and what's good about either one of these guys, you can kind of take your side who you like more. They both have that JJ McCarthy and Bo Nix. Okay. So before we get to Michael Penix, let me ask you this then. How high would you draft either one of those guys like is 11 too high for

you to draft either one of those quarterbacks okay it's what i just said like in a vacuum i would say no but then i threw in the caveat of positional value matters and i i've mentioned this before i'll say it again i have position addition baked into my scouting grade book so running backs are way farther down. Like you can have a really high grade as a running back. You're going to be like a high second or a third round pick defensive tackles. If you're just like a run stopper, you can be the best run stopper I've ever seen, but you're not going to be a first round pick on the other end of that. Quarterbacks are always going to be higher. Like I obviously have not graded the entire class yet, but right now I have one, two, three, four, five quarterbacks, all five quarterbacks inside my top 15. And that's

again, that's not where they're probably ultimately going to finish. And their raw grades are lower than some, you know, tight ends and some edge rushers, but the position, if you hit on it, it has a bigger impact. We all know this than any other position. So if we're just looking at the player themselves, I would say maybe Bo Nix and JJ McCarthy, I wouldn't call them in the history of the draft guys that you would traditionally say are top 12 draft picks, but the positional value still is absolutely sky high. The number, the most valuable position on the field so in that case yes if you're the vikings you like him you like the rest of your environment there in minnesota you pick him instead of you know going edge rusher or any other position well and the other thing

that's easy to forget is that it feels safer to pick pick an edge rusher but an edge rusher can bust too and they probably have the same exact percentage chance of busting as a quarterback. So if they value those guys in that mid first range or first round, if that's how they would put them, then yeah. Okay. Reach a little bit that like, that's not a huge deal. It's kind of like, there's always an exception to rules where it's okay for the 49ers to trade for Christian McCaffrey because it's bad to trade for running backs but not that one and not in that situation same as this like it's not it's not bad in my mind to quote reach because we've seen that many times where

quarterbacks are passed upon including the greatest quarterback, Patrick Mahomes, who was passed upon to draft Leonard Fournette by a team, by the way, instead of Patrick Mahomes. Just to show you the risk of passing out a quarterback, you might be the team that took, who was it? San Francisco took like a defense. Solomon Thomas. Yeah, Solomon Thomas. Who's been on like four teams.

He's been on like four teams. What I would say too, and I'm going to use one of your draft philosophies that I've actually totally, I've started to totally agree with. I think you said it maybe a year or two ago that you thought wide receiver was the second most valuable position in the NFL. And I'm fully on board with that, that, and I think someone tweeted this recently and I, I commented and said said I think it's wide receiver more than than offensive tackle and edge rusher because a lot of people were chiming in

saying oh it's edge it's corner it's offensive tackle I believe you I I think that it's wide receiver but and I'm tying this back to quarterbacks I don't know if you can say 100% that it's wide receiver because there's a surplus of them and you can get a really good one in the second round or the fourth round or Puka Nakua in the fifth round. There's a litany of examples, not just to throw out, oh, hey, Tom Brady was a sixth rounder and Brock Purdy was Mr. Irrelevant. Quarterbacks are a lot harder to find and look at the course of history, last five years, 10 years, 15 years, how many third through seventh round quarterbacks you like never hear from at all. So that also is baked into, Hey, we're the Vikings. We really like Bo Nix. Oh yeah. We also love this edge rusher, but yeah, there's 30 other

edge rushers in this class and we can probably find a good one in the second or third round. You can't just wait on the quarterback spot and say, Oh, well, we'll just pick someone. We'll pick Spencer Rattler in the third round and he'll be fine. He quarterback spot and say oh we'll just pick someone we'll pick spencer rattler in the third round and and he'll be fine he'll be a pro bowler he'll be an all pro in our system you just it's the numbers go significantly down in terms of percentage chance of hitting on a quarterback a lot of other positions including wide receiver you can get really good players there's recent track record of getting those guys after the first round. One thing I would say is if they came down to, we actually really like Knicks and McCarthy, and we think that one of them will be available at pick 20 or 22, you could trade down

and everyone would freak out and then take your guy and go from there. So that could be a potential option. Now let's get to Michael Pennix though, because the fact that we've spent so much time on McCarthy and Knicks tells me that you are not as high on Michael Pennix. Here's what I am high on Michael Pennix, two major things. His arm talent, I think is ridiculous. I think he can absolutely rocket that ball and has surprising touch deep down the field. I also love that for an immobile quarterback, he did not take sacks. Now, you know, this I've, we've done this show long enough. You know, I love Steve McNair growing up and Steve young and like mobile playmaking quarterbacks, uh, have dominated the NFL except for Brady and Manning and even,

even Roethlisberger, like the, you know, that is a mobile playmaking quarterback at his prime, not, you know, later in his career. But if Pennix though has the hack of being able to get rid of the football, find his checkdowns, not take sacks, understand the value of not taking sacks. And if he could stay in the pocket and throw deep and hit explosive plays into tight windows, I think you can make it work without extreme athleticism. And the best example of that is Jared Goff, who has no ability to run zero, less than zero, and yet had his team in the NFC championship because he is a really good distributor of the football and has tremendous arm talent. And he doesn't take a whole heck of a lot of sacks.

So why is Penix below the other two guys in your mind? For a lot of those obvious reasons that you just pointed out. And I think it's interesting that you kind of ended there with Jared Goff. Cause I got a lot of Jared Goff vibes watching Michael Penix stronger arm than Jared Goff. I think, I mean, not that Goff has a noodle, but I think Penix, again, when he really wants to fire it 20, 30, 40 yards downfield, he's unafraid and really is not just like, oh, I think I can make that throw. He can. He knows it. The velocity is there. He is someone that I think is very, and I mentioned this earlier with Bo Nix, is very functionally athletic, like moving inside the pocket. He knows his limitations. And I think

that speaks to what you said is vital, that despite being relatively immobile by today's standard, even at the collegiate level, it's like he doesn't try to do too much. And a lot of the times the quarterbacks that are like, ah, the college level, they're, they're pretty good athletes, but not great. Like, I think Bryce Young was someone Tua was someone that I was like, these guys are not going to be able to elude any defenders at the next level, but they like ran in college and like, Oh, he's, he's kind of mobile. He's athletic. And it was like, no, Michael Penix is like, I'm going to once in a blue moon, run on third and five and try to get six yards and get out of bounds. He understands it. So he, I think,

did a good job, maybe outside of the national title against Michigan, drifting inside the pocket. And to bring back Brady and Peyton Manning, to bring them up, Drew Brees as well, they were masters of navigating the pocket. And that was when I got into scouting, I was looking for that. Like, what are those quarterbacks that have that natural ability, chaos around them, and they stay calm and they move around, they slide left, they slide right, they slide up, back. Penix is very good in that regard. I do think, though, it's going to be hard for him to not have any off-script ability

just with the complexity of defenses today. So that's why he's graded a little bit lower but obviously situation matters and i remember our first year doing this uh weekly podcast i was not a mac jones fan whatsoever i thought he should i don't know i just did not think he should go nearly as high when there was a speculation the 49ers were going to pick him at three they They traded up for him. Thought that was crazy. But I believe late in the process, I kind of played devil's advocate to myself and said, you know, there is room for a quarterback to come in, be undervalued by the league.

Whether, you know, obviously I didn't know where he was going to ultimately be picked but in this league filled with these freaky athletes doing all this Josh Allen Patrick Mahomes stuff to just be like surgically accurate understand the offense get the ball out quickly and we have seen that with guys like Jared Goff we didn't see it with Mac Jones and I think part of the reason was because he has no arm strength and I don't know how insanely accurate he is and how great of a processor he is. I think with Michael Penix though, there's a greater chance that he can be that kind of outlier among all these freaky athletes because the arm talent is there. And the last two years at Washington, he did stay relatively healthy and dropped a lot of throws in the bucket down the field. I don't think his accuracy is amazing, not the downfield throws, but like the kind of the layups at the intermediate level, you know,

some throws behind receivers where that, that insane wide receiver group made awesome catches all season long, where I would like to see the ball out in front or not low or not high. But I think there's a better chance that he could become that guy because of the physical skill that he has in his left arm. Folks, if you've been listening to the show, then you know how much fun we have been having with prize picks this year. Just go to prizepicks.com slash purple.

Use the code purple for a first deposit match up to $100. And let me tell you how it works. If you haven't heard us talk about it enough yet or you haven't tried it yet very simple there are yardage totals on prize picks you either pick more or less and boom you are playing each week has been a roller coaster ride of fun and the best part is that when i have a bad week i didn't lose much it doesn't cost much to play you You can turn $10 into $250 very easily. And if things go sideways for you, you're not out a whole heck of a lot of money. That is prizepix.com slash purple, just more or less on yardage totals. And you are in prizepix.com slash purple, the code purple for a first deposit match up to 100 well so that's the thing for me is like weighing this how much are we willing to deal with that a quarterback doesn't have right and this kind of goes for all of the guys when we're talking about drafting quarterbacks who are not

in the top three so if we go through dra Drake may guess what we're going to talk about. Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. Right. Like Jaden Daniels. Awesome. The guy, you know, right. So when you're talking about anything other than that, what's our shortcoming that we're willing to sacrifice on that we think you could still build a team that might have a chance. But the difference between the way I look at this and the way that a lot of people look at this is I look at it as, can you draft someone to build a good enough team around to have a chance to win the Superbowl within two or three seasons? And this would be like Philadelphia with Jalen hurts. I think in the light of day, we know that Jalen hurts is an extremely, extremely good quarterback who is not on the same level as Patrick

Mahomes, right. Or Josh Allen talent wise, but they have built an incredible team and a system that works for him that if he had been healthy, I think they would have been better. But I think his running ability being taken away was huge. But you know, with Michael Pennix, like, are you willing to sacrifice the mobility? If you can push the ball down the field into tight windows because of his arm talent. And I think the Vikings maybe, and are you willing to spend a lot of time with JJ McCarthy to improve all those tools that he has to work with? Maybe like, are you willing to kind of take the risk of Bo Nix that it might take some time for this man to adjust to the NFL because every receiver is not absolutely wide open all the time. Right. So like maybe like all of these things kind of come along with that. I'm willing

to take that shot. What the NFL has kind of shown though recently, Chris, is they're not like with someone like Will Levis, you could have gotten into a maybe type of situation. The last guy like that might be like Kenny Pickett, Mac Jones, and those haven't really worked out. Somebody who you were willing to make a lot of sacrifices on just to take a quarterback because you needed one. And so there's a part of me that's sitting here thinking like, I'm not sure that the Vikings will fall in love with one of these guys because the NFL does have a tendency to either let them drop to the mid late part of the first or even out of it if they're flawed enough as we saw with someone like Drew Locke.

Yeah I think that will be the ultimate question for the Vikings and again with the 11th pick given their offensive environment they're in one of the most unique situations that I can remember for a team to have the best wide receiver in the NFL, Jordan Addison hitting the ground running and a lot faster than I thought he was going to, and I think a lot of people did, at that size. Yes, TJ Hawkinson gets injured late in the season, but you have him returning at some point, most likely during 2024, and a solidified offensive line. You just picked Christian Derrissaw a few years ago, become awesome, one of the league's best young left tackles in football, Brian O'Neill's there. You have a good offensive line. So I do think the Vikings would fall into that bucket of they're probably willing to make a few more sacrifices given what they have up front.

The Steelers did not have an offensive line. I think that's been a problem for Kenny Pickett. It was a problem that Pittsburgh, whenever he saw pressure, he just scurried out of the pocket, couldn't really create that much. When he was in the pocket, he was good. For a lot of those other situations, there were clear flaws in the environment, and the Vikings don't really have that, plus they have a really high pick. One other point that I want to bring up, and we can maybe segue this into the Chicago Bears conversation at one, that there's a good chance that the Vikings like a lot of these quarterbacks.

And I don't think they're necessarily – I mean, maybe there's not. Maybe GMs bang their fist on the table early on and say, we need to have a concrete guy that we like and that's it. But to me, and maybe this is just in theory pure speculation they could be like yeah we have a pretty high grade on McCarthy and we like Bo Nix and we also don't mind Michael Penix if if we trade back and get into the 20s again because of their environment so it's it's funny like a lot of radio spots that I've done recently it's like who should the Bears pick and should they take this massive haul to trade down? And I'm like, well, they might say, yeah, we also really like Drake may too. Like, I don't think it needs to

be completely cut and dry that if Bonix isn't there, then we're out of the first round. We're not picking a quarterback. And in this draft class, that is very deep among the top quarterbacks. I think that is more likely to happen for a team like the Vikings than in the past couple of seasons. So how far behind the other two did you have Michael Penix to put a bow on him? I don't want to say a considerable, it's a sizable gap because the athleticism score is low. And I have that as the second most heavily weighted category, but everything else, if you just look at it, the accuracy is right there with them. The arm strength, I think, is as good as J.J. McCarthy, or is actually better than J.J. McCarthy's. I think he has the strongest arm of those three. His pocket management, like I said, has the highest grade. And I think he reads the field,

the entire field, like manipulating safeties, all those intricacies, better than all of those. But just me, someone that places such a high priority on athleticism, that really drags down his grade. And that's just, again, to a point that I think is important to bring up in this first episode. You and I could sit down and watch Michael Penix come away with the same observations, but we will view things and have certain skill sets or parts of a skill set higher than the others in terms of importance. So I think when you hear, oh, people see things differently on film, I don't think we do. We just tend to weigh things differently. And I have athleticism near the top at the quarterback spot today. Yeah. I don't want to be hypocritical from previous years where we talk so much about playmaking and I really, really was into the Anthony Richardson idea just like you.

So I don't want to be like, Oh no, it's fine. But I think that what you have to have is some sort of answer when things break down or in a big moment or whatever. And I think Penix's arm is an answer. Perfect way to put it. it if you there are times with jared goff there was a fourth down with jared goff where he's rolling out and he's got an open

receiver and he throws it in the grass and it's like well you know as as much as i respect the heck out of jared goff probably more than most vikings fans do um although he's in the nfc championship it's a harder sell now uh for anybody criticize him. But if like, if you're trying to recreate that, I think that's hard because Jared Goff throws the ball to the right place over and over and over and over and over and over again. So it's not just his arm talent or accuracy. It's that that dude processes the absolute bleep out of his offense. And like everyone gives Ben Johnson the credit, just like everyone gave Sean McVay the credit. It's like, I don't know, maybe there's something here to who the quarterback was and his ability to execute these things that he's asked to do. And then,

you know, Stafford makes him look bad, but Stafford's also good at it. So like, you know, it's not like it was a huge, huge gap, just somebody a little more physically gifted. But I think there is an answer there for Pennix, but I agree that I'd rather see a guy that when he's pressured, he just runs away. Doesn't have to be fast, but can he gain 15 yards when nobody's around because he can outrun everyone? Well, you know, I don't think Penix can, but I think that probably McCarthy and Knicks can, which makes them a bit more attractive.

So let's spend the last few minutes here and we won't make this an Epic just yet. We got to like ramp up. Well, you know what I mean? It's like, I'm just too excited. I got the adrenaline going. Right. When you get to training camp though, like you, you can't go a hundred percent right off the bat. You're going to get hurt. So like, we won't do like an hour and 40 minutes, uh, Epic mock draft or something just yet, but let's just end on this right now how do you see the top five playing out and let's even add into that would anybody trade with the vikings so i i think right now what two weeks like four days before the super bowl three weeks from the combine i I think the Bears

just pick Caleb Williams at one. They trade Justin Fields for whatever they ultimately get for him. Jaden Daniels goes number two overall. I think if you're Cliff Kingsbury, you're like, Hey, he's kind of close to Caleb Williams with his improvisation, athleticism, arm strength, things like that. Now the Patriots at three, I've certainly put other positions besides quarterback to them, but I don't know how Gerard Mayo could start as a head coach following up Bill Belichick and be like, yeah, let's pick a receiver here. And we don't really have an answer at quarterback, but we're going to just run it with Marvin Harrison Jr. with no one to throw him the football. So there's recently been, and it came from Lance Zerline who heard it and he's super plugged in that

Drake may could be the guy who falls in this draft class. Now is that someone again, feeding that to Lance Zerline to hope that he falls to them? I would be at this point surprised if the Patriots did not pick Drake may. I really think his film's great. He's got all those things you said. He's awesome in everything. Marvin Harrison Jr. to the Cardinals at four.

And then the Chargers with Jim Harbaugh. I think that could be an offensive lineman. And I think that or that could be a position where their new GM, Joe Hortiz, who was in Baltimore and they were just forever dating back to the Ozzie Newsome days. And then now Eric DaCosta always having eight, nine, 10, 11 picks. They always, they kind of hacked the compensatory pick formula system. And we're always letting free agents go to get those extra picks. I don't think they would be opposed to trading down.

That would maybe be the position where if the Vikings wanted to move up, it wouldn't be an NFC North team. It wouldn't even be in the same conference. Maybe the Chargers say, Hey, look, we like this offensive tackle class and we'll get into it. It's a good offensive tackle class, or they just don't love the board right there after those first four picks and say, we want to collect more. That could be the spot for the Vikings to move up. Maybe if Drake May is still there, or if they're like, Hey, we don't want to risk it. We're too worried about the Giants at six,

the Falcons at eight. There's other teams in front of them who could ultimately be, or will likely be in the quarterback market that they would then trade up for one of those quarterbacks at that point. I think number five would be the spot. All right, so there's going to be plenty of ramp up for us to the combine draft simulations will return and we will touch on all sorts of different subjects and if you're

sitting at home wondering are these guys ever going to talk about like defensive tackles yes we will you will get that uh begrudgingly maybe for me but we will we'll talk about the other positions the vikings could draft if they trade down or if kirk cousins returns uh we'll discuss all of that as we go forward and then when we get to the combine we'll start to get new information and the plan right now is for after i speak with quayse daflamance and kevin o'connell with their sit-down interviews with me and a couple other beat reporters, then you and I will break it down and analyze what they said at the podium, what they said in their side sessions, and then we'll try to pick it all apart from there.

So there is plenty, plenty to go in draft season. CBS's Chris Trapasso, CBSSports.com is where you can read him. I am happy we're back, buddy. This is great. I'm super excited, truly. This is where you can read him. I am happy. We're back, buddy. This is great. I'm super excited. Truly. This is like a, a high watermark for me every week or yeah,

like once a week to do this, to be able to just pick each other's brains about the draft. And if I remember correctly last year, Kwesi Adafo Mensah had one of the more articulate, smart, calculated, prudent, just press conferences with the entire NFL media that was assembled there in

Indy. You get that exclusive kind of one-on-one or there's what, two or three others there. I'm really excited to kind of be able to analyze what he has to say and Kevin O'Connell and how they plan to move forward. Most likely without Kirk Cousins, This kind of feels like the year. Finally, we've been asking for it the year that they really swing for the fences at the quarterback spot. It does seem to be building up that way.

And in, in, I'm sorry, I almost said Indianapolis. That's what would be at the combine. But in Vegas at radio row, a lot of the vibe was people saying, wait, Kirk Cousins is leaving, right? Because they can't figure out why he would return. But maybe we'll be surprised. I guess we'll have to find out as we go along. We will go on an off-season journey that is going to be one that shapes the Vikings organization for many years.

And you are along for that ride, Chris. So thanks, everybody, for listening to this first 2024 Chris Trapasso draft show. We will talk to you all later. Football.