Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - CBS Sports' Chris Trapasso talks about whether Josh Dobbs can be a long-term starter for the Vikings

Episode Date: November 9, 2023

CBS Sports' Chris Trapasso talks about Josh Dobbs' skillset and how he has developed since college into a starting caliber QB. Plus he discusses Jordan Addison's case for rookie of the year and the 2024 QB draft class Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here as always and joining me, CBS Sports Draft Analyst, returning to the show, Chris Trapasso. No, Chris, it is not draft season yet, but we have a lot to discuss from Josh Dobbs and his raw skills that I was very impressed by to Jordan Addison to even we can I think get into it this week the 2024 quarterback draft class so what is up man how have you been enjoying your season it's been great I can't believe that we're already getting into week 10 uh it's kind of crazy it's just kind flown by. I think the parody in the league has been a lot of fun. The AFC being really loaded and really the NFC for the Vikings being wide open where

I'm not going to get into the specifics, but during that Falcons game, when Jaron Hall goes down, you weren't exactly too, let's say, enthusiastic about the remaining Viking schedule and their chances to be a good team. Now suddenly they've crawled back from a really bad start. You have Josh Dobbs. You've seen some signs from Jaron Hall, and the NFC is wide open. So it's been a really fun season, and it's great to be back on the Purple Insider. I do not want to reveal what my DMs and texts look like when Josh Dobbs fumbled.

He took the safety, and you're like, okay, well, that's understandable. And then he fumbles. You're like, I'm getting a lot of people. They should have tanked. And what are they doing? Why didn't they trade to Neil Hunter and everything else? And a couple hours later, we feel completely differently about the season, which is one of the things I love so much about football, Chris,

is that how you feel about an entire team, their franchise, their timeline can shift in a single half of football. It can also change how you feel about a football player. And with Josh Dobbs, this is where I want to start with you. So I went back and looked at the film and where I was really impressed and had no idea when they got him because his amount of starting was just very limited and only limited to playing in Arizona was the velocity that he put on the football how clean he looked in the pocket at times with his drop back with his hitches with his even accuracy throwing the ball farther down the field than most backup quarterbacks can and of course the athleticism at times looked like Lamar Jackson or some of the better running

quarterbacks, not making that comparison. But when you look at his fourth and eight run, it's shaking a tackler that is a defensive end and then in space one-on-one with a DB and juking them out and making a play. And also with his size, he was hard to bring down for the Atlanta Falcons to the point where they started respecting him at points in the game where linebackers are coming off their receivers. If he's rolling out to try to stop him from running as you, I'm sure, analyze Josh Dobbs when he was coming out in the draft a few years back and then have seen him kind of develop as a backup quarterback. What does he have as a skill set and does it translate to being an NFL starter?

Well, first what I would say, and I'll just kind of get this out of the way, that in terms of the mental skill set that I'm not seeing on film necessarily, like his, we know about all of his off the field, his academics, that he truly is just a smart human being because he's been able to be traded to two teams right before a start and ultimately played well and in Arizona early on then obviously this really famous relief appearance that ended in a last second touchdown we know that he can grasp a playbook concepts from a completely unfamiliar scheme right away. And I think that is why we've seen him be someone that can play in multiple schemes, cities with personnel, with different personnel so early in his career.

Now, from a skill set perspective, he's done two things very importantly. At Tennessee, Dobbs was kind of a dual threat guy. So the running that we saw in the SEC and that long career at Tennessee, that has been sustained as he's been a now veteran in the NFL. He's not lost a step. He's not unwilling. He's not just trying to be a pocket passer. And I thought coming out, he had to continue to lean on his legs if he was going to even be a serviceable backup in the NFL.

And secondly, I think his arm strength has gotten better. What you said that you were surprised at the velocity just on the underneath throws that, you know, those slants that need to be kind of thrown with a lot of mustard on them were, and then down the field as well. I didn't necessarily see that at Tennessee. And it's not to say that a quarterback can never improve his arm strength going from college to the NFL, but it is pretty rare. So whether that was just Dobbs using his brain again and saying, Hey, look, like I realized that I need to get a stronger arm. I need to work on the power that I can throw the football with. Once I'm a professional, he's done that. And that was the one thing that I was concerned about him or with him when he was entering the NFL, that the arm strength seemed to be about average at best.

And I agree. Watching him in Arizona this season and then certainly against the Falcons in Atlanta with the Vikings this past Sunday, really surprised at some of the miles per hour that I think he was generating while, again, understanding where to go with the football in an offense that he really didn't know. Well, I mean, seeing that he is an aerospace engineer, he probably understands the mechanics of what would cause a football to go faster.

I mean, I'm like only half kidding about that. I mean, honestly, he seems like a guy that has progressed and progressed and might end up being one of those arguments for quarterbacks developing in certain places and then having a chance later on. And it's something that we see occasionally in the NFL where a player is a backup and then they work their way into a starter. But there were a couple of different throws that really stuck out to me. There was one that Tristan Jackson could not pull pull in but it was exactly what you're describing it was like a slant and you had to fit it into a bit of a tight window and he throws a rocket uh right toward you know jackson i mean if it's just the jefferson's an easy touchdown short addison it's a touchdown uh but tristan jackson alligator armed it a little

bit but that's like a plus plus throw for somebody who is facing a blitz where a guy was coming free and he's letting it go. And these are starter things. And I think that you can be concerned about the ball security. He did turn the ball over too much in Arizona. And then a couple of turnovers here, I'm willing to forgive some of it, but you know, I'm on both the turnovers. there's a little bit of like trying to do too much uh or maybe even the safety where he should just throw the ball away and then you know the second interception was kind of weird somebody just hit his hand but the first interception was definitely or a fumble was definitely trying to do a little bit too much so i i think that as dobbs kind of becomes more comfortable with his circumstances, this is what I'll really

be watching for because I feel like he has the raw tools to take them into the playoffs and to win on a semi or relatively weekly basis and be an interesting discussion as we go forward of like, is this guy the quarterback or what's going on here? However, if he does throw picks and fumble and take safeties, that's going to hold him back. It's kind of like the Ryan Fitzpatrick thing a little bit where it's like you can only have so many of those types of miscues. Yeah, what I think will be a really fun,

I don't know if you want to call it thought experiment or case study, that last year's pre-draft process and what has kind of been a prevailing thought entering what will be next year's pre-draft process, 2024, is that, man, you plug in one of these top quarterback prospects into this Viking situation and you could really catch fire right away. I think with Josh Dobbs that you know what the baseline is going to be, that he's usually going to make pretty good decisions. Occasionally there'll be a misfire or a time where he should

have thrown the ball away, like you mentioned, or he doesn't quite step up far enough into the pocket, takes a sack, maybe fumbles. But in general, he's going to play pretty fundamentally sound football. How good can this team be with an awesome offensive line and then if Justin Jefferson returns or when he returns now you've been able to see Jordan Addison develop in his injury absence you still have TJ Hawkinson who's playing like to me kind of like an underrated elite tight end which I certainly think he is at this point and the defense hasn't been amazing but it's certainly been good enough especially kind of in a watered-down NFC we'll be able to really see the true powers of the environment that this Vikings regime has created around a quarterback that if you got this type of play from Josh Dobbs

say next year from a first-round rookie you would be happy with it. So I think to me kind of being an outsider, but getting to know a lot about the Vikings the last couple of years because of you, I'm going to be most like looking forward to that, that this seems to be like one of the best backup spot starters in the NFL, maybe kind of that Jacoby preset 2.0, where if the situation is good, you can win a lot of football games. He's not going you can win a lot of football games he's not going to lose you a lot of football games and occasionally he will make those tight window throws on slants or pick up a fourth and eight with his legs can that be enough to get to double digit wins and get into the playoffs I really like that as a thought experiment of or well I guess it's a real

experiment that's going to take place but of seeing not only just how the environment with the rest of the roster takes place but also the coaching as well because as we have talked about the potential to draft a quarterback over the last number of months and even going into last draft we talked about like would they take will levis they decided not to but one of the things we kept coming back to is Kevin O'Connell's your coach. And when Kirk Cousins is your quarterback, that's a veteran who's done so many things in his career that a lot of people have coached successfully. Kevin O'Connell's not the first person to have Kirk Cousins putting up big numbers and winning games and things like that.

So you can say, well, he is kind of still kirk cousins but now we get a a control i guess if you're talking about scientific experiments to compare it to how did kirk perform how did josh dobbs perform a few people have brought up that they scored 30 points for the first time this season where i'm so interested to is balancing also josh dobbs's running ability because it just when you've only watched kurt cousins for a long time and you see a guy go full barry sanders on another dude in the middle of space while he's motored like okay i'm reminded now that this makes a pretty big difference and that's where i want to see there's like levels of dobbs there's like okay is he just going to be a

backup that maybe could be a bridge quarterback if they needed him to is he going to be someone that we actually talk about as being their quarterback going forward if they can't draft one high enough or is this just going to be a one week type of hey it was super fun remember the josh dobbs game but then they lost eight in a row or whatever like and i don't know which way it's going to go I kind of lean toward at very least we could be talking about a bridge quarterback who proved that they can elevate someone who was known as a backup to playing at starter level yeah and two things there specifically what I think is really interesting is that Kevin O'Connell being from the Kyle Shanahan tree and I've done this with mock drafts with the 49ers not so much with the Bengals because of Joe Burrow but any of these coaches Sean McVay not so much obviously post Matthew Stafford trade I've always been pushing for and we've talked about it with

the Vikings what does the very established time-tested Kyle Shanahan scheme, and certainly Kevin O'Connell puts his own spin on it, every guy's different, what does it look like? We know that it creates quarterback efficiency, that you're going to get high completion percentage. The yards per attempt is going to be over seven, probably eight. If you can get eight yards per attempt from Nick Mullins, then you can get it from anyone. Brock Purdy, for as good as

he's been, I think a lot of it is the scheme and the situation there in San Francisco. What does it look like with a running threat at the quarterback position? We never got to see it with Trey Lance in San Francisco. And not that Josh Dobbs has the athleticism, the explosiveness of a Trey Lance, but he certainly can run the football. There is a designed run game element to his game. He did it a little bit in Arizona. And like we've mentioned that fourth and eight conversion was, was not a designed run, but I think it adds a new wrinkle and I'm interested to see what Kevin

O'Connell will do with that and say, Oh, Hey, this is like the last 10 pages of our playbook that we never really opened. And now we can. Secondly, to your point about the bridge quarterback thing what i'm interested in and we you and i at the combine we talked like what does this vikings regime want to do do they are they like let's tank let's draft the quarterback and maybe we're going to go through growing pains in 2023 be done with kirk cousins we kind of came the conclusion, and I think it's very clear now that like what you said, if Josh Dobbs becomes a bridge quarterback to some fans, you'll say, well, what's that going to do to you? You're going to win nine or 10 games, losing the first round of

the playoffs, whatever the case may be, not reach or win a Superbowl. Clearly this regime does not want to go full tank. And for as much as it's easy for you and me or the analytics to say, you should tank, just be really bad, get a lot of picks, trade away all your good players. We've also, you and I have talked about for as easy as it is for us to say that, that these guys have these jobs. These guys and girls have these jobs that they don't want to suddenly say, hey, look on my resume as a GM, I'm eight and 32. And yeah, next year will be good. They want to win games. They want to get to the playoffs, the Wilfs. You've mentioned how much they love, uh, the GM and the head coach and that they believe in them.

They want to see wins and maybe even just getting to the playoffs. That's good enough. If you go back to back playoffs to start your career as a GM and a head coach, signs are pretty good and things are looking up. So I think even if he is just a serviceable bridge quarterback who we eventually realize has his limitations and can't beat the Eagles in the playoffs or whatever team that may ultimately be that is the true juggernaut in the NFC, that's still completely fine. It would be a great return on investment for a mid-season trade. Something really hit me last week, watching Josh Dobbs win that game, which is you cannot tank with this coach. It's very much like, like, like Pittsburgh where you just can't,

I mean, he's going to coach them up. And Brian Flores is a major part of this as well. But when you have this current coaching staff, it's, you're just not going to be bad enough to lose that many games. And then we talk about the other talent as well with Jordan Addison, who we will get to in just a second, but you know, Jefferson and Derrissaw and Brian O'Neill and so forth, you've just got too many good players and too many good coaches to say say they're just going to lose a bunch of games that even when they are put in the most adverse situations, they could still find a way to be a competitive team. To me, that speaks to the future really, really well. Would I trade places with the Houston Texans? Yes, I would.

I would say, yes, I would, but that's not, that's not the world we're living in. And we're going to talk about how that relates to twenty twenty four in the draft class, because I think that even if Dobbs becomes a Geno Smith type of, hey, really cool story, the guy was a backup and then becomes a starter, which we saw a number of times when we were growing up with like your your Trent Dilfer types or your Matt Hasselbeck types, who he kind of reminds me of a little bit. Yeah, yeah, the backup type quarterback who develops and becomes a starter. Then that player can win, but normally you need like an all-universe type of team around them for that to happen, which maybe if you give the Vikings $30 more million next year in cap space, maybe they can. But yeah, I think that what we're probably looking at is someone who's getting them through the season and then they want to keep for next year regardless of what they do at quarterback but i wanted to talk about jordan addison because he cannot be left out of this story josh jobs is the guy for sure but the throw and the insane catch that he made by the

sideline the the thing that stood out to me from day one of training camp is if it's in jordan addison's area code this dude is bringing it in you talk like in draft season you always discuss hand catchers versus body catchers and guys who could snatch the football out of the air radius. Right. Jordan Addison does this super stupid well, and he has done it all season long. And when Justin Jefferson's been out, it's been amazing to see him emerge as a star wide receiver. Not just the guy we're saying, hey, not a bust, but a star wide receiver. He probably can't be rookie of the year because C.J. Stroud is destroying the NFL. But he's right there in that conversation, I think.

Why do you think it has worked from what you saw as him as a prospect, from what is translated over to the Minnesota Vikings? All right, so I'll start super specifically and then work my way backward to more broad. With Jordan Addisonison I think myself and probably just in general in the draft there's like a blind spot in in terms of these smaller skinny really diminutive wide receivers who for some reason maybe because they're so small don't test very well and they have a lot of production but then you're like oh man 5 10 180 and some of these guys 170 tank dell is another one i can list off a bunch who because in today's

nfl separation is more important than anything else and then those little intricacies like being 5 11 but having the catch radius of a 6'2 receiver ultimately becomes serviceable players. Jordan Addison, Tank Dell, Christian Kirk is one of them who's never been a superstar, but he didn't test very well. He was too small. He was only a slot receiver at Texas A&M. Played in Arizona, was decent, and has been good with the Jaguars. Kelvin Ridley is another one who maybe is never going to be an all pro wide receiver, but similarly size and was compared a lot to Jordan Addison is even by me during the pre-draft process. A lot of those receivers who I guess just apparently is if even if you're tiny, if you run good routes routes you're not just a gadget guy you can win on the

inside or the outside and then do those possession or outside wide receiver things like make ridiculous catches at the sideline and absorb a hit on a throw that's two feet over your head you're not only a route runner and you can create after the catch like all of those wide receivers that I just listed can you can be 5'10 185 pounds and not test very well have a low RAS and look at that mock draftable web and say oh man he ran like close to 4'5 his vertical wasn't good the three cone wasn't great broad jump wasn't good and still be a really good player now a little bit more broadly what I think has been so interesting is that when I was watching this Vikings team and again I've kind of like taken a liking to the Vikings because of this

podcast and like you having me on here just trying to stay up with them to kind of prepare myself for draft season early on it seemed like even as the clear number two Jordan Addison had some problems early on beating press coverage and that was me kind of saying aha see that's you know he's not very long he's not super physical he doesn't have the weight and the force behind him but then since Jordan Addison has been out and he has seen more man-to-man coverage or more number one corners whether it's just been he's, it took him four or five games to get acclimated to how good, even like some average NFL cornerbacks are in press coverage. I think he's gotten better at getting off the line and those first five yards,

creating that separation, or at least not getting suffocated at the line. So then he can set up his route the way he wants to there was two catches against the Green Bay Packers one on Jair on Jair Alexander near the sideline Alexander slipped and you could say oh you know Packers fans would say okay he slipped what can you do I think he slipped because Jordan Addison's cut was so sharp toward the sideline and Jair Alexander if you go back and look at his combine freaky athletic never to me ever had any problems in man in press coverage against any receiver in college or the NFL and then another one on the other side of the field I believe it was on Rasul Douglas

where it's like he cut to the outside sold a vertical route and then slammed on the brakes and then cut back toward the sideline it was like the best out route that I've seen run by any receiver this season was an easy completion for then Kirk Cousins doing those little things very well and the one area of weakness that I think was kind of indicative of him being smaller he's gotten better at that as he's kind of had to assume this wide receiver one role so that is certainly encouraging for Jordan Addison and again this Vikings offense because what do you do then when Jordan Addison or when Justin Jefferson comes back from his hamstring injury two elite separators who again are good at that but they do everything well

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The code purple. Daily Fantasy Sports made easy. I mean, that's the thing about Jordan Addison is when he's coming out, the only concern they had is really the height and weight. And I think if he weighed 20 more pounds, he's a top 10 draft pick. Based on, I mean, the guy won the Bolitnikoff Award. It wasn't like he was 19 years old. Right, right.

And then, you know, he goes to USC and Hey, look, Caleb Williams looked a lot better when he had Jordan Addison playing for him as well. And I mean, the biggest games he would step up at the biggest times all the time. I mean, for me, he was my favorite wide receiver in the class. I think we remember those discussions about Addison because I, I use two things and those two things seem to work one is ball tracking because there's so many college receivers who have great physical skill but when the ball's in the air you know usually they're catching it wide open if you have great physical skills you just run by corners catch the ball wide open you go oh that guy's great but he would make

a lot of contested catches a lot of like body contortion catches. And what he did against San Francisco, there's a play against Virginia when he's playing for pit, where he does the same thing. He steals the ball right out of somebody's hand and like that natural ability. And then the route running, I adjust the route running has been spectacular. And I think what really speaks well of him is the adjustment.

Exactly what you're talking about. The first couple of weeks ago, like, okay, like he caught a couple of deep bombs and so forth but he's going to be consistent and against it really was kansas city where jefferson gets hurt and there's a few routes that i remember pulling the all 22 clips and and putting them in an article just being like he's getting off the line of scrimmage he's roasting guys who are good starting to do it in that game yeah yes exactly exactly and so now jefferson will likely come back and we should have news

on that at some point fairly soon uh but this has been so good for him like jefferson's injury is is bad even though they won their games but it's not great not to have Justin Jefferson. They've overcome that. But now the trust of the offense, the trust of Kevin O'Connell, the belief that, okay, it's not just the Justin Jefferson and friends. This is a wide receiver duo from here on out. And to me, it changes potentially franchise trajectory because we're talking about what you can do at the quarterback position. If it's Jefferson and then a bunch of guys, I don't know. Like, that's hard. potentially franchise trajectory, because we're talking about what you can do at the quarterback position. If it's Jefferson and then a bunch of guys, I don't know.

Like that's hard. We've seen that the limitations of having just one really good wide receiver. We see it with the Raiders presently when you got to, it is a different universe. I think Chris. Yeah. And I would go back to my neck of the woods with the bills. I think part of the reason why the Bills have been pretty inconsistent

offensively, you have an all-world wide receiver in Stephon Diggs, and it's like Buffalo is still trying to find its identity because they're like, who's the number two receiver? It's not really Gabe Davis. He's more just a downfield guy. Khalil Shakir's made some plays, but not consistent enough. When you have Jamar Chase and Tee Higgins, when you have Brandon Ayuk and Debo

Samuel and George Kittle, when you have Tyree Kill and Travis Kelsey or Tyree Kill and Jalen Waddell, if you, I mean, that's four of the five best, you know, offenses in the NFL when you have A.J. Brown and Devontae Smith. So yes, I totally agree. That is, it is, can change the trajectory, what you ask of a rookie quarterback, that you don't need them to make eight big-time throws in a game in their first month of the season. You can just say, get the ball to these guys. You're going to see open targets very often with Jefferson and Jordan Addison.

Certainly helps out that you can then sign a veteran wide receiver for not a lot of money to be your wide receiver three who's a good player like a Robert Woods type guy that can just step in and be kind of a mentor it doesn't have to be a hundred target player next season so Addison's development and maybe we'll look back and say man Justin Jefferson getting hurt like you mentioned was actually a blessing in disguise because it really sped along the development for Jordan Addison because suddenly it was like hey look we picked you in the first round just like Matthew Collar suggested that we do and you have to face Jair Alexander one-on-one and and Legereus need of the Chiefs he's good physical long athletic been there done that cornerbacks

and it I think maybe just the more attention to detail and the more focus that Jordan Jefferson needed because he was that number one has really helped him and again Josh Dobbs, Jaron Hall, Kirk Cousins, whoever's been throwing him the football and just this offense as a whole moving forward. Let's go back and talk about the decision for a second before we get to the quarterback class and kind of the bigger picture. You mentioned how right I was, and I appreciate that. We will not discuss any other times that I was not right, which was campaigning for the Vikings to take Jamison Williams, who has not so far become a star for the Detroit Lions. Maybe he will if he's on the field.

We'll see what becomes of that but in this draft i remember going through the mocks and a very high percentage of the mocks had the vikings taking defensive players because they looked at where they ranked in defense 28th and they looked at okay you've got daniel hunter and then who as far as pass rushers go and they had picked up marcus davenport on a one-year contract that was never going to be a long-term thing or was not likely to be a long-term thing unless it really worked out and uh you know okay you need corners you need nickel you need safety and well no uh yeah but even you could have argued like lewis scene is it wasn't working out and we didn't know we didn't

know cam bynum was going to take this big of a step. So you kind of need everything on this very bad defense. And when they took a receiver, that's when I thought, like, okay, I think Quasey may have figured this thing out over the last year because that position, if you have a guy who's a wide receiver too and he's a very good one, he's worth $20 million a year. They are getting $20 million worth of production for Jordan Addison receiver too and he's a very good one he's worth 20 million dollars a year like that's they are getting 20 million dollars worth of production for jordan addison out of not that much and that player can shape an offense whereas i think a defensive player very important to have great

defensive players no doubt about it but it's more of a group thing and that's what we've seen from brian flores's defense this year is it's it's the scheme it's how you maximize everybody's skill and one guy cannot just completely shape a defense in the same way that a receiver can and that decision to not go defense and to instead give kevin o'connell another weapon is one of the major reasons that this team is where they are right now. And one of the major reasons we feel about them in the future, but let's, let's re litigate that. Like what's go, go back over that discussion. And again, talk about how great of an opinion I had. No, I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I have so many things wrong with the draft, like everybody else But take me through that decision and what you thought of it at the time

and what you thought going into that draft pick. Well, I will pat myself on the back and you on the back because forever, I think even going back to two years ago, we were like, when in doubt, pick a wide receiver in the first round. I remember you saying that you thought that wide receiver has become the second most valuable position in the NFL I agree with that I do think you all like there needs to be another layer in it in that there are so many receivers available who are really good and like offensive tackles that are really good are not as easy to come by so that might make I mean if

you're really looking at like what is the second most valuable position? Is it offensive tackle, receiver, edge rusher? I think it's easier to find good wide receivers today, but we hammered home the point all draft season. And yes, in that final mock draft sim that we did, I went Nolan Smith, you went Jordan Addison, but I kind of didn't pick or like I kind of leaned away from wide receiver and because I think Jordan Addison was like the main guy who

was available in that sim because of like I mentioned this clear blind spot that I will adjust for these smaller speedy you know poor testers who are just super productive in college by the way Deontay Johnson of the Steelers is another one tested horribly coming out of Toledo. And he gets open all day in Pittsburgh. Doesn't have great quarterback play, but he's another one that popped into my head that you said, Hey, look, this is going to move the needle more than anything else. And to your last point, I think is perfect. The hiring of Brian Flores and that he is, I mean, you've seen all the charts. I'm sure some of your fans have to the, how much they're blitzing is like almost off the screen compared to other teams that I think the hiring of Brian Flores, maybe help the,

or probably help the Vikings lean away from a defensive end or a nickel or a corner to say, look, this is what we have. We're going to blitz a lot. It's more about our scheme and maximizing the players that are already in this scheme. Then let's just wait on a wide receiver. Let's get the wide receiver. And like that, you said that Kwesi seemingly has understood what makes a team really go in today's NFL.

And I just referenced all of those top offenses. I even go back to that Sunday night football, Bill's Bengals game. Jamar Chase didn't really do much in that game. T Higgins had nine catches for 120 something yards, picked up a lot of first downs, had a lot of great catches outside of his frame near the sideline. You need that number two today, definitely. And a lot of teams, the best teams have three really good options. so I think from a philosophical and draft standpoint the Vikings understood look we have the defensive coach that we want that is going to maximize our talent with a ton of blitzes Danelle Hunter is still there let's get someone

that for this year and then for the long-term future just again is more valuable if you're looking at getting Jordan Addison on a cheap rookie deal like you mentioned him just in a vacuum as production is 20 million dollars a year worth just going to move the needle and be better for the franchise as opposed to another edge rusher and and I I think going back to last year's Super Bowl to not just use recency bias or just a one game sample in last year's Super Bowl yeah like Nick Bolton returned to fumble for a touchdown that was a big play beyond that the Eagles and the Chiefs just went up and down the field the entire game and to me that's kind of like an inflection point of like where the NFL is today that yes you can load up on defensive linemen and corners if you're the Packers in the first round or you know up front if you're the Eagles on defense you need the offensive line

which the vikings certainly have and a multitude of very skilled multi-dimensional pass catchers and i think the vikings that's what they were after with jordan addison it seems like they got that player i think the approach there's a lot of logical approach to this most recent draft, including taking someone like Makai Blackman, who had great, great numbers in college. Again, like maybe a little undersized and so forth. We saw that a lot in this draft. But taking mid-round corners and even a Caleb Evans, I think has worked out quite well. His PFF grades are not great. I think in part because the way they play defense, they play a lot of people at the line of scrimmage and a lot of people 10 yards off the line of scrimmage,

which does allow for a lot of catches in front of them. And those get dinged and stuff like that. But he's been an exceptional tackler and I think a very competent player. Blackman has been in and out a little bit. We've seen more of Andrew Booth Jr. like throwing mid-round numbers at the the corner game but knowing that you know you probably have to get a ride receiver when you can in the

first round because of just the skill set difference i also think with edge rusher we've seen a lot of those guys who are taking late first really not work out i think because they probably have a flaw that everyone knows the value of that position but they probably have a flaw that everyone knows the value of that position, but they probably have a fatal flaw. Smith was undersized and he might still become good at some point. But even like an Adafio way, like not having the sack. Joe Tryon is another one. Exactly. And so what we see is teams that have great pass rushes from the edges usually draft Miles Garrett or they're like, hey, Hassan Redick.

Hey, Randy Gregory. Hey, like you're not working out with your team, but why don't you come be a rotational guy for us? And I think for the Vikings, it's like you're going to have to stick. You probably have to extend to Neil Hunter at this point and then try to look for outside options. Davenport, when he was in, looked really good. But things like that for the future. But I want to shift over from the Jordan Addison pick, which truly, in my mind, has changed the trajectory of the franchise because of what you could potentially do at quarterback

and what that means to have this setup. And also, I did want to note as well, you brought up TJ Hawkinson. His last four weeks or so, after a pretty rough start to the season have been absolutely elite at the tight end position. And that's why they, that's why they signed him is a huge, huge deal. Uh, what he's done to make up for the absence of Justin Jefferson. And that plays into this as well. So does Darisaw. So does O'neill heck ed ingram is playing much better football it's closer to average than horrendous which is a big deal that's a big difference the difference this is just a side rant but the difference between being xfl level bad to like below average is probably almost as valuable as average to really good i mean because you can't line yeah yeah

because you can't you cannot play with a guy the way he was playing last year but of course he's he's improved that anyway one of the best if not the best quarterback setups but if the vikings win too much with josh dobbs can they draft one of these first round quarterbacks, Chris? Yeah, I mean, I think so. And they will certainly do their due diligence on this. What seems to be a very loaded quarterback class because of all the COVID implications and some players like Michael Penix and Bo Nix decided to return. You obviously have Caleb Williams and Drake May at the top. It seems to be.

And I think it's late enough in the season for me to not be that cliche and say oh next year is really good like it really has the makings of being a 2018 level draft class that had five quarterbacks in the first round now six would be pushing it I don't know if we've ever seen six I I gotta look that up um but because you have Josh Dobbs, you're probably, I mean, I think done with Kirk Cousins. And even if they weren't at his age, it would just be like, even if you love Kirk Cousins at this point, it would probably be smart to just look for the future, given how old he is at this point. And he's going to be coming off a major injury. Yes, that there are certainly a lot of very talented, different flavor quarterbacks that I think we will be. And also, and I just wrote about that or about this

kind of philosophy this week at CBS that I think from Kirk Cousins landing in Minnesota and actually playing pretty well around the same time of when Ryan Tannehill went from Miami to Tennessee and revitalized his career. Then there was this huge push of, you should sign a veteran. You should trade for Carson Wentz. You can find these guys. It was the craze. And I remember there was like a famous Adam Schefter tweet. It ultimately didn't happen. I think two or three years ago, he's like as many as 18 teams could be signing a veteran quarterback to really be in a true quarterback competition it was like the craze in the NFL it's a copycat league and the Kirk Cousins and the Ryan Tannehill acquisitions

were so successful that teams were like hey look we don't know what's going to happen in the draft we've tried this for a hundred years and we can't figure it out. Let's just get the proven commodities, like you mentioned with edge rushers. And that's kind of gone by the wayside now that Carson Wentz has bounced around the league. There's so many like Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold, quarterbacks that just ultimately have not worked out. So I think teams are not as excited about signing a journeyman and hoping they can revitalize his career and get to an AFC

title game or get to a second round of the playoffs. So because of that and couple that with just how good this quarterback class is, that there's multiple guys, three, four, five, six guys that came into the season with a lot of hype and did the opposite of what normally happens, that you normally see a Matt Barkley or a Ryan Nassib just not really play that well in their final seasons or live up to the hype. I mean, Caleb Williams hasn't played great of late, but his numbers are still good.

He's still making those wild throws. Drake May has been good. Michael Penix has been awesome. Bo Nix has been awesome. Jaden Daniels has been really good. So because of that, I think, yes, the Vikings will be one of the teams that will and should look deep into that quarterback class.

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wow, Mahomes and Josh Allen, we got to get this raw skilled guy except for he was a little too on the raw side. I will forgive San Francisco. That was the toughest year to scout players probably in NFL history. Well, you know, since we have modern technology, but you know, the COVID thing and Trey Lance not playing for a year and all that stuff, that was pretty hard. But I think a major part of it was we're trying to chase a trend.

And as you mentioned, that absolutely happened with Matthew Stafford going to the Rams, which is probably in part why Denver wants to trade for Russell Wilson. And they think that's going to work. And nothing ever has a high hit rate because there's only ever at any time like 12 good quarterbacks in football and the rest are just trying to either survive or are terrible and so it's like you're never going to get it perfect but if you've ever heard the saying 90 of life is just showing up well 90 of quarterback success if not 100 is just giving it a try and i think with the vikings they have so much foundationally that's good already they have superstar players that are

good already that you can take a shot at a quarterback that maybe is not perfect but we're always going to find something wrong with everybody no matter who it is lamar jackson can't throw drew joe burrow he was criticized doesn't have strong enough arm uh you know to uh can he uh you know whatever has a strong enough arm is he big enough whatever justin herbert like there's always going to be some reason not to draft a guy but if you let that get in your way you're never going to draft the guy who ends up working out and i'll tell you who i've been more sold on. Just a couple of quick questions, though, on these guys before we wrap up.

Do you think Shadur Sanders is coming out? Because I've been very much sold on Shadur Sanders, actually even more so since his offensive line got hurt and he's, like, toughed it out. I think that he has tried as hard as anyone could. His accuracy is great. His toughness is great. I'm really interested, but you know, who's sold me more. And I, and I don't want to be a victim of like, this guy just has a great team, but Bo Nix is making some actual throws. This guy has really developed from what I saw at Auburn, where I thought who cares. And

I mean, Pennix just does it every week. What do we think about those guys that have the potential to be more toward the middle of the first round and might not necessarily be in that same Caleb Williams, Drake May area? Yeah, more probably in where the Vikings will ultimately select. Yeah, that's a good question. I love Sanders, too. And I think it's funny is that he was truly like in the national spotlight early on when, when Colorado, that's all everyone wanted to talk about and put on TV. Haven't seen it as much, but I still think he's played really good football. The one thing I will

say, and I don't want to be a Debbie Downer. I would be surprised if he enters this class. I mean, his dad, Dion is pretty outspoken and he has been very overt in saying, why would he leave? Like, we love it here. Like I think he gets it too, that like, it's a loaded quarterback class and that he's like, my son is, is not going to ever be number two in anything. And I think he clearly would be like at the very best, like the third or fourth quarterback off the board. I don't know if he would love that.

Although you would have to think like it would probably be better to land with the Vikings say than like the Arizona Cardinals at number one or the bears, whatever. Um, as Bo Nix goes, I I've seen him make more throws this season. I still want to see more though. I think the offense in Oregon is very, it's run-based. The offensive line is very good. He doesn't have like, you know, Marvin Harrison Jr. or a bunch of future first and second round picks at receiver. But I think a lot of it is screen-based, quick throws, RPOs. But then again, that's kind of the nature of today's NFL.

And Michael Penix, I think in terms of value, Michael Penix, and again, none of these like opinions are set in stone we have a lot of college football to play we have a lot of NFL to play I just kind of like I slightly disagree on Bo Nix but his athleticism is very intriguing because he has that franchise caliber athleticism that you want Michael Penix I think might be the best value in that his ding I will tell you this for sure is going to be that he doesn't really move a lot at Indiana. He did run around a lot and he looked kind of exciting because of his,

because of his athleticism. Haven't really seen as much of that at Washington, but he's countered that with making a ton of ridiculous downfield throws like every single week. And it's like, is it maybe just so much of a vertical element where he's just chucking long balls and he's not going to get to do that as much in the NFL? And then if he can't move, is he kind of limited? But I still think having that ability

to make those throws where you have to rein in a player, a quarterback is way better than the other way around and say, Hey, stop checking it down. Hit Justin Jefferson down the field. He's open. Don't just check it down to the back. I would rather have my quarterback be Michael Penix-esque than vice versa. So those three, good value. I don't know if Sanders will be there. We're going to see Bo Nix in some huge games down the stretch.

He has the ability. I think right now he is a first-rounder. He has the ability to be that. We always talk about it, one guy who goes a lot higher than anyone expects him and J.J. McCarthy of Michigan who I do think will enter this draft he's made a lot of big throws but similar great offensive line they want to run the ball isn't a high volume thrower but when he throws it you see the first round caliber talent and then michael pennix again limited mobility but i think the best value in the first round and maybe even someone that could be

available in round two i think josh dobbs might talk us into wanting someone who can run all the time i think what i mean with bo nicks is that i had sort of dismissed him as a legitimate prospect and he yeah he's convinced me more uh that he potentially could be mccarthy uh mccarthy knows all the other team's signals so i don't know like the nfl i'm not sure you know that uh yeah that's there's no signs on the nfl like the huge poster boards of like miley cyrus and taylor swift and uh a viking helmet and whatever so yeah that that will be a little bit of a transition for him for sure. None of them. Yeah. None of them are going to be perfect prospects that we

talk about are the next Andrew Luck. So then you have to figure out what's going to be the best fit for you. Okay. So before I'll go ahead, go ahead. One final point in watching that game against the Falcons to see that Jaron Hall actually started the game pretty well with that first drive, looked pretty impressive. And then Josh Jobs come in. We've talked about him, how good he was, how impressive he was early on. It kind of in my head made me think that Kevin O'Connell just might be this next in line from the Kyle Shanahan tree where he manufactures good quarterback play. We always hear about, oh, he needs to be in a quarterback-friendly system. Well, what quarterback would you not want to be in an unfriendly-to-quarterback system?

So it's almost like, I'm not going to say right now because it's still early in terms of the draft in April, but yes, we'll be able to poke a few holes in all of the quarterback prospects, but I'm leaning toward that Kevin O'Connell just like you mentioned that this team is not going to be able to tank with him as the head coach and I don't think we're going to see the Vikings regardless of if it's Josh Dobbs if it's Jaron Hall if it's a rookie next season play bad football and play inefficient football at the quarterback spot the scheme Kevin O'Connell being a quarterback there were some of those shots in game where Josh Dobbs was coming off the field and he was like, show, he was like literally like showing him what to do, like in terms of his mechanics.

I think that is super valuable. So, and it's something that I think Vikings fans should be very encouraged about that. You have a head coach that seemingly can accentuate all the strengths of whatever type of quarterback at whatever age he has on his roster. I completely agree. And as we get into eventually draft season, you will be a huge part of that as always, which is going to be awesome. And we'll probably be talking a lot about which quarterbacks fit with Kevin O'Connell and everything else. Or maybe by then they'll have extended Kirk. I don't know. i guess we are a long way from finding all of these things out but uh i am super glad that you were able to join the show again and we will be doing it very much in the future cbssports.com at chris trapasso on twitter you post a lot of your great work on there. You're always coming up with very creative ways to look at the draft,

upcoming players, the NFL in general. So, you know, as always, I'm a huge, huge fan of yours, Chris. So everyone, if you don't follow his work already, make sure you go do that. And one last prediction I'll ask for you. What slot to the Vikings draft next year? What pick will they have? How about we go? So I'm saying this right now,

pre week 10. How about slot 22? Is that where they picked Addison or is he 23? I think it was 23 or something. So I think, I think make the playoffs and maybe just not have enough firepower again offensively at the quarterback spot to beat a team they'll be obviously the lower seed as a wild card have to go on the road do a two or three seed um but again given that kirk cousins gets injured

midway through the season justin jefferson's out for a long stretch the wilfs you vikings fans would be like hey that was a pretty successful season for this vikings team that even we thought six months ago might be a team that's picking in the top 10 and this is kind of a tank year it's it's such a longer discussion and i had already done all the wrap the show up stuff but I'll just make a quick point about that. Like, yes, tanking in a lot of cases does work. It does. But if you're not in a position to tank with your roster, the goal is to win. And when the Vikings were 0-3, I was saying, like, we're going to need to see the competitive part, too, because that's what you promised.

And that's what your goal was. It was not to throw the season. So it's always it's a always a delicate uh discussion anyway we'll thanks everybody for watching slash listening and we'll see what comes next football