Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - CBS Sports draft analyst Chris Trapasso breaks down Daniel Jeremiah's Vikings-y mock

Episode Date: March 20, 2024

NFL Network's top draft analyst released a mock draft with the Vikings at center stage. CBS Sports draft analyst Chris Trapasso breaks down the proposed QB pick of Jeremiah and gives his 90s/early 2000s comparisons to the current crop of quarterbacks https://surfshark.deals/PURPLEINSIDER Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here, along with CBS Sports Draft Analyst Chris Trapasso. And Chris, I want to start out, because it is mock draft season, with a, he called it chaotic, blazing hot, fiery mock draft by one of the most credible draft analysts and mock drafters. Are you ready to break down the top picks of daniel jeremiah's latest mock are you prepared i'm prepared because he teased it the night before it came out and it's like okay really how chaotic is it going to be you're daniel jeremiah he usually doesn't stray too far from i mean he's kind of a guy that I always say that like sets the consensus, but this mock was just filled with truly a lot of chaotic things and developments, one of which pertains directly to the Vikings.

So I'm definitely ready to break down that. Then maybe some other developments that went down in the first top half of the first round of this mock draft. The Vikings made the headline of the mock draft on NFL.com. So that's how much involved they are. But we will start in Daniel Jeremiah's latest mock with the number one overall pick, not chaotic, but exactly what we expect in Caleb Williams. I don't even think we really need to talk about it, Chris, because there's no world where they're not drafting Caleb Williams at this point, right? Like we have just, we've all decided it's locked in. There's not going to be a Trayvon Walker surprise at the end or something where the guy who's been locked into number one suddenly isn't right. We're all

set with Caleb Williams at one. Yeah, I am. And it seems like, I don't know if this is coming from anywhere it's contrived from the league, but it kind of reminds me of 2019 when late in the process it was like, Kyler Murray might actually just go play baseball. He doesn't want to play for the Cardinals. It was like, yeah, okay, sure enough. He got picked by the Cardinals, and he seems completely content there, even not having Cliff Kingsbury as his head coach anymore.

So I think you can pretty much write that in Sharpie at this point, not even in pen, write it in Sharpie. It's going to be Caleb Williams to the Bears at one. Okay, no controversy there. But with the number two pick, Daniel Jeremiah, mocking the Washington Commanders, Drake May. Now we have talked about the Vikings as the potential Drake may target, or as Drake may as the potential Vikings target for whatever they're going to

do with these two first round draft picks that they now own. But if Washington is in for Drake may with the number two overall pick, I guess that takes that idea off the table. Where, where do you see Drake may fitting in with this? Because this is another, it was the consensus all the way through. And then we started talking about other possibilities, them trading out, them getting other players. But I think that May still is the favorite, unless you kind of do a little investigation and come to the conclusion that them getting

rid of Sam Howell or them getting Marcus Mariotta as their backup would point you toward Jaden Daniels so who do you have at number two well I have a lot of thoughts about this because we were in Indianapolis and you heard it I heard it the talk besides the J.J. McCarthy going to go higher than everyone thought it was leading in with the Lance Erlein comment, I believe, on Daniel Jeremiah's Move the Sticks podcast. Like, oh, Drake May is going to be the one that has a Will Levis or a Justin Fields-esque fall later than everyone thinks.

So it was like beyond the McCarthy talk that week at the Combine, a lot of it was like, oh, it's going to be Daniel's at two, and then where does Drake May go, which opened up those possibilities and was, I think, two or three episodes for us talking about what the Vikings would have to do to get to four. Could he fall all the way to 11? It seems like at least the Vikings believe that they might have to get up into the top five to get that quarterback. And beyond that, it's like a whole new layer because I almost went into the middle of March thinking, all right, it's going to be Daniels at two. And then we start to have, are the Patriots going to pick a quarterback? But if you're the Vikings, is it, oh, suddenly now Jaden Daniels is available?

Like we didn't really think that was going to be the case. Like, should we ultimately pick him? How much do we like Jaden Daniels? So it's really a uh i don't want to say it's a true development because this is technically just a guess from daniel jeremiah but this is not something that it felt like we were ready to need to explore like two weeks ago coming off the combine and now i think it is um but to me i i still think jayden daniels like you mentioned the marcus mariota that his his running capabilities cliff Cliff Kingsbury as the offensive coordinator there, just being the offensive coordinator for Caleb Williams, who more resembles Jaden Daniels on the field than Drake May, I think it's still going to be

Jaden Daniels. And I thought it was interesting, this kind of 180 that Daniel Jeremiah did. Is this just wanting to have some chaos with about a month to go to the draft? Or is he hearing something that all of that about Drake May was just maybe a team's effort to push him down the board? Very well could be. It does seem that there is still some mystery here, but I tend to agree with you that, and of course all of us could be wrong, but when you add up all those things, they would have no reason to pretend or to try to throw everyone off. Oh, let's hire Cliffs Kingsbury who worked with running quarterbacks and we'll fool everyone. Like they're drafting number two. They have no one to fool here. And also with

Drake May, I think it's worth bringing up that may and Sam Howell, at least from my understanding, have a relationship and just, you know, shipping off Sam Howell, at least from my understanding, have a relationship and just, you know, shipping off Sam Howell to bring in a running quarterback in Mariota. A lot of teams, most of the time they want a similar backup quarterback. So when you have Kirk cousins, you get Nick Mullins because it's that same kind of pocket quarterback. And if the Vikings were to draft Jaden Daniels, then, you know, I don't know, because they've got Sam Darnold, but there might be a hint there even about Drake May, big armed, big guy, that kind of thing.

So yeah, I don't know. I really don't. But I think that Daniels at this moment feels more like the number two overall pick and we'll see. But Daniel Jeremiah didn't wait too long on Jaden Daniels. So for, for a guy who was calling for complete chaos, I'm not sure he totally went there because he did go chalk with three quarterbacks and give the Patriots Jaden Daniels. I think the Patriots have a stronger

argument for trading out with the Vikings than Washington does because their team is so horrific and they haven't done anything this off season that was crazy to acquire some big star or something that they get, you know, Kendrick Bourne comes back, KJ Osborne. These are just sort of classy receivers who can do their job. It's not like they went and got some a hundred million dollar player. I still think that it's possible that they pass up on a quarterback, but clearly the most obvious result of this top three is quarterback, quarterback, quarterback, right? Yeah, definitely. I mean, I would be surprised if, if when the Cardinals go on the clock at four,

if three quarterbacks have not been picked back to back to back and it doesn't necessarily have to be the Patriots. And of course, right right now just looking at the ammunition that the Vikings have it seems like a pretty decent odds that that third pick will be the Minnesota Vikings that we've tweeted about it we've looked at every single draft trade value chart uh that 11 and 23 alone and I know that there's a quarterback premium but 11 and 23 alone get the Vikings to like between pick three and pick four so So you throw in a 2025 third rounder or fourth rounder, whatever the case may be to get up to the fifth or to the third pick. And there you have it. So it, again, it it's fascinating to me because is it the

Vikings made this trade because they have their sights set on one guy or are they like, we like both of these guys,'s say drake may and jane daniels and we just want to get to that number three spot it kind of uh there's a lot of parallels for me to that 2018 draft class where when the jets moved from six to three there was a thought that they just liked pretty much all the quarterbacks they were like we like baker mayfield we like sam darnold we just don't know who's quarterbacks. They were like, we like Baker Mayfield. We like Sam Darnold. We just don't know who's going to be picked first. And we're fine picking Sam Darnold,

which is kind of crazy how that ultimately turned out. But is it just for one guy or would the Vikings be like ecstatic? Like, whoa, we weren't thinking it would be Jaden Daniels. And then suddenly in this case, it would be. Or there's another result that if they have their eyes on JJ McCarthy, maybe then he could be that guy either way. And they would get their choice. If Washington took May, they

get McCarthy. If they take Daniels, they get May. What is your theory, by the way? Because there's lots of different ways to look at this with this trade. As we get to the number four overall pick on Daniel Jeremiah's mock, which I will not delay on. He has McCarthy going to the Vikings in a trade-up between the Vikings and the Arizona Cardinals. What is your theory on the holdup? Because there's a ton of different avenues, and one of them is that if they're trying to trade with the Patriots,

that potentially the Patriots might want to go back and then back up. So go back to 11. This is what the Cardinals did last year. Yeah. Right. So go back and then go back up to try to get their guy at number four. There's also the idea that the Patriots might not want to make this move until pro days are over until they get a good look at,

you know, these guys up close, or there might be that the Vikings made this trade with the idea that they could move up, but nothing guaranteed and nothing locked in and are just kind of taking their swing at it and could end up without a potential trade up altogether. So why don't we just stop here? Daniel Jeremiah has the Vikings trading up for JJ McCarthy. Now give me your thoughts on

the Vikings where they currently stand at 11 and 23. Yeah, those reasons are really specific and they're good ones. Mine was just more general, why we haven't seen that second trade for the Vikings. It's just the fact to me, to move to three, there's a lot of, I think, moving parts there that there could be, you know, Gerard Mayo might want a quarterback, but Elliot Wolfe, their new GM or their kind of de facto GM, doesn't want a quarterback. Robert Kraft's involved. But for me, if it's four, which Daniel Jeremiah has here, I think the Cardinals are just potentially fielding a bunch of offers because you have the Raiders at 13. You have the Giants at six. I think if you're the Cardinals and they're GM Monty Austin for it, you have to think, well, which pick next year, if it would include a 2025 pick is going to be higher in the draft

that, I mean, we've talked about it, that if the Vikings land a highly talented quarterback, there's a good chance that even that 2025 third rounder is going to be at the end of the third round. That's a lot different than if the New York Giants make that pick and JJ McCarthy's not very good next season and they're a top 10 team again. And they're maybe saying, Hey, we'll give you our 2025 or our 2025 first round pick. I think that to me, why we haven't seen the trade up yet um is that's the reason because there's multiple teams maybe even the Denver Broncos that are I think kind of in a desperate situation even though we're only into what going into year three with Sean Payton or

year two or year three why like the years are totally blending together with me with Sean Payton but anyway two that I think I don't want to say he's on the hot seat. And then if the Broncos start off badly, that he would get fired. But I think their GM, George Payton, who's been around for a few more years, like needs to get this quarterback situation right, especially with that huge dead cap hit that they're eating with Russell Wilson this year. So to me, it's just a lot of teams who are potentially calling the Arizona Cardinals and they're just taking their time, kind of feeling out which would make the most sense for their organization. Yeah. I mean, all of that could play into this, but at the same time, if you're the Vikings and

you make this trade with Houston without full confidence that you can get into the top four that I'm going to be a little confused, I think, because it's just like so much smoke signals that like, uh, they, they are going up to the top, they're getting their guy and everyone is assuming that that's going to happen. And then any delay sort of opens up the door to another team just popping in and being like, Oh, Hey, we're the giants. We'll give you more or where that's why I think the Vikings had to get this extra first round pick because they had to be able to say, I know there are other teams offering you this many firsts, but we can give it to you now. And don't you want it now, Arizona and new England to jumpstart your rebuilds?

So this is what gives the Vikings that advantage. Yeah, you know what? You saying it that way, it kind of makes me think that what I suggested earlier, that maybe there's, or it will be fascinating to see if the Vikings have, like, multiple quarterbacks they like or there's one guy. I'm going to go back to the 2018 draft class. It's a similar situation to what the Bills did. They did they were like moving up the board from the 20s they traded corby glenn and like an extra pick to the cincinnati bengals to move up and then they didn't make the trade

up to get josh allen right away i think they were sitting there and they're like we love josh allen maybe they liked one of the others and they thought okay if he's there we're going to make the move so maybe the fact that we haven't seen this second trade come down, and as we get closer to the draft, if it doesn't happen, maybe that is what we can realize is the fact with the Vikings, that they love J.J. McCarthy, they love Drake May, they love Jaden Daniels, and they're like, we're not going to force it. We're not just going to trade up to get a quarterback just to get a quarterback,

like Matt and Chris always suggest, but we love our guy. And if he's there, then we'll make the trade maybe on draft night when that team is on the clock like the Bills did. Otherwise, we're going to sit back and pick an edge rusher or do whatever at 11 and at 23. And maybe like you've suggested in the past, maybe it's Michael Penix at 23, that's the fallback option. So that could be what you just laid out, kind of a hint that the Vikings

may have just one guy, maybe two in mind. They're not going to make that move up to four, say, and then, oh, crap, Drake May's not there, and we don't really like J.J. McCarthy, so now what do we do? Give me your draft grade for the Minnesota Vikings. If they were to do exactly what Daniel Jeremiah said, they use 11 and 23 and whatever change to go up with the Arizona Cardinals and draft JJ McCarthy. Well, how would you grade that? Did he throw in what 2025 pick would cost or would it not let me see here uh he yeah i don't

think he was very specific about it he just said after the recent trade with the texans it seems the vikings are situated to aggressively move up and draft kurt cousins replacement cardinals trade down bypassing a chance to pick the first receiver off the board, but address the position later and pick number 23. So he didn't say exactly, but we know it's some combination of 11, 23, and whatever else it takes. I would give it a B minus, and that might be a little nice.

I mean, I like JJ McCarthy. He's my quarterback four. I don't have him, of course, graded as highly, but I'm going to stick with my guns and how you kind of see it too, that if there is a quarterback you like, that's what you do. You get aggressive, make the move. We know the GM in Minnesota is totally aware of the analytics and how smart it is to trade back. He's done that before, but you do the opposite with a quarterback. So I think McCart, like I kind of feel like I'm alone on an Island that I kind of like JJ McCarthy that I think in the right situation,

he can be that better than he was in college type player because the, the natural skills are there. And that there is some of that kind of natural improvisation that I certainly want to see. And how about the fact that just at Michigan, even if you don't like him, you're like, Hey,

he just kind of ran the offense and didn't really do much. And that's what he could do in Minnesota. Not that it would be the same run game, but in terms of the environment, we've talked about it a million times. He wouldn't have to come in and be Patrick Mahomes in year two and throw 50 touchdowns and the offense is on his shoulder. So I think at his size,

athleticism, the flashes of improvisation, didn't make a lot of mistakes in college, didn't have to. And I don't think he'd be put in a situation in this Kevin O'Connell offense where he would feel like, man, I got to put the ball in a lot of precarious situations to win this game. See, I would give this an A because mission accomplished. And because my confidence in myself is not that high, because I feel the same way as a lot of people do about JJ McCarthy, which is I am a little more hesitant about him than maybe someone like Drake May. But at the same time, this was their goal. And if their goal was for this

off season to, if Kirk cousins leaves trade up, get a quarterback and put that person into the situation and try to go win on his rookie contract. That's an a for me because we've seen even quarterbacks who have a lot of questions about them coming out that when put under this spot we've even seen quarterbacks who are imperfect like baker mayfield was one chad henney run away from uh what the afc championship game and uh how about you know carson wentz winning 13 games for them or most of 13 games before he got hurt and nick fooles took over. There are so many examples. Even the Rams did not stay with Jared Goff long-term. He got them to a Superbowl. There's so many examples of this working that I can't give it anything less than an A, but my next question though about this is

Daniel Jeremiah. I'm going to scroll, scroll, scroll down to number 13, where Michael Penix goes to the Raiders. So allow me to ask you this question. Would it be better for the Vikings to pick JJ McCarthy at number four? Or if Michael Penix, and I'm not confident in this, truly is a top 15 quarterback. Would you rather have Pennix at 11 and then Johnny Newton at 23 or some other defensive tackle or pass rusher or whatever at 23 and then have two first round picks? Or would you prefer to have McCarthy at four? That's a fantastic question. I don't have them graded way apart. I do have McCarthy ahead of Penix, and I think that would –

what I always say whenever there is a trade-up, even if there is a quarterback, is is J.J. McCarthy an extra first-round pick better than Michael Penix? I would say no in that scenario. And that's, again, I'm coming and saying that I am the biggest trade-down advocate besides when it's a quarterback, go up and get your guy. But I'm also realizing that there is inherent risk when you do that, and there are a litany of the examples that have worked. There's a few that have not worked as well for those trade-ups.

So the draft navigation, I would be fine with it. But when you're looking at it from that perspective, and like you're saying, this is a mock where Penix goes 13. It'll be interesting to see, is this where Daniel Jeremiah keeps Penix? Like kind of in the middle of the first round? Like, is this a hint at what he's hearing? Or could the Vikings, like I suggested earlier,

like in an alternate universe, maybe get Michael Penix at 23 and get like a blue chip prospect at 11. Because to me, I don't think there's that big of a disparity between those two where trading two first rounders to get to four for McCarthy compared to Penix, it's a little bit closer in my opinion. The only thing that might separate it a little bit is the age difference that JJ McCarthy, I believe is not even 22 years old yet. Michael Penix, the injuries, um, and where he is age-wise would make it a little bit scarier, uh, for me in that situation. Folks, have you ever heard of test driving a phone network? I did not

make this up. It is an actual thing. And Cellular is letting you test drive their network for free for 30 days. You can try out U.S. Cellular wherever you have that spotty service, like on your commute to work, that one spot in your house where your service dips. Test drive U.S. Cellular at your kid's school on parent-teacher night. Okay, maybe still pay attention, but by all means, make sure you test it. It's as easy as doing a little boop, boop, boop on your phone. That was me getting the app to try it out. I know, great sound effects there. Test Drive, U.S. Cellular's award-winning network for 30 days. U.S. Cellular, built for us. Terms apply. Awards based on open signal, independent data. Visit uscellular.com for details.

Right. And so I guess in my mind, if, so there's a wild card factor here and that's Kevin O'Connell. If it was Rick Spielman making the pick, then in this scenario, I might go, maybe you should have just waited and taken Michael Penix because it's Rick Spielman. And not only that, but he's not a former quarterback. He's not the, he's not the guy when Mike Zimmer was the head coach, he wasn't going to be get the guy with the headset who needs to be in lockstep with his quarterback. In this case, Kevin O'Connell absolutely has to be a hundred percent locked in, 100% bought in, because that's going to permeate through the whole franchise. I mean, if there's word that O'Connell really didn't want the guy that they pick

from anybody, even if any whispers got out with that, that's dangerous. Like, you don't want that. You don't want the, well, they just kind of settled. You want, they got the guy that O'Connell and McCown were totally bought into as their franchise quarterback. And everybody could all just, you know, sing Kumbaya, JJ McCarthy is our guy around the campfire. If you wait and then it's Pennix and then O'Connell's like, I wanted McCarthy and you didn't make it happen. That's where you start to get into the head budding and so

forth i don't want any of that but from a philosophical standpoint if a quarterback is taking it 4 or 13 what are the actual odds difference it's probably not that much as far as being picked in those two spots because that's kind of the difference between like mitch trubisky and patrick mahomes yeah and it's easy for me to say like, oh, well, if they could get Michael Penix at 13 or 23, but under the gun, when you're on the clock, the Vikings would have no guarantees of that happening. So even if they're like, we love JJ McCarthy, but our GM is kind of a wheeler and dealer. He wants to see, you know, check the trade, the pick value charts. And could I move back and maybe get our one B or our two A in Michael Penix? You don't know that he's going

to be there. You don't know if the Broncos are in love with him and they pick him at 12 or a team trades up in front of you at 23. Those are the things where it's like that feeling where you get sniped in a fantasy draft. Imagine if you're the GM and it's a real player, like snagging your guy right in front of you. And you're like, oh my God, that was our plan B. And now what are we going to do at quarterback? So I think you're right that it's easy for us to say this and look at a mock and say, well, what if this happened? But I do think you have to bake that into the whole draft navigation process where maybe you just go up and get your guy. And that's why, again, I've, especially for quarterback,

been very much like you pick out your quarterback and the Vikings are uniquely suited to know exactly what they want based on their coach and their offensive coordinator, their quarterback coach, like you mentioned, that if you identify who that guy is, go up and get him and really don't have to, uh, you know, tell anyone any reason why, and don't be ashamed about it because especially when you have a head coach that was a former quarterback. Right. I would feel the same way. I would be in support. Uh, practically speaking in practice, I would be in support of getting McCarthy and trading the extra first as opposed to if they were to take Penix at 11, knowing that maybe the Raiders would want him or if he's a first round prospect.

But look, I mean, if they end up with 11 and 23, I'm just going to have questions because it's going to look like if they don't get a trade up here, it's going to be like, so you guys tried and couldn't, and then had to settle for what was there. And that, right. So that doesn't mean the guy's going to fail. It just means that's a little uncomfortable. And then if you're waiting around to 23, that would be quite terrifying. He also has Bo Nix, not as a first round prospect. And sometimes with these guys, I'm like, so is Bonick's good or not? Like, can we all as a world decide just like, you know, because, uh, in previous mocks,

he's in the top 15 going to the Broncos. Now the Broncos are getting a tight end, which I think would be weird. Uh, but not everybody who needs a quarterback is going to land a quarterback. Is Jared Stidham going to play for the Broncos? Like what is going on here? Right. If, right if he's if that's not the case yeah Giants at six Vikings at 11 Broncos at 12 Raiders at 13 and I know that the Raiders signed Gardner Menjoo and they got decent return on Aiden O'Connell last year as a rookie there's just for as good as this quarterback class is with the Bears and the Commanders almost locked into quarterback quarterback there's just for as good as this quarterback class is with the bears and the commanders almost locked into quarterback quarterback there's just not enough quarterbacks in this class for

like okay everyone just gets their quarterback and everyone's good so there probably will be a team especially after the first round that maybe is just like look maybe we've called the patriots we've called the cardinals the cost is too prohibitive to move up let's hope for bo nix in round two or mich Pratt from Tulane in round three or Spencer Rattler in round three or round four, because there probably will be someone that is left out. What is good for the Vikings, and like you're mentioning, it seems as though they're doing their best to be like,

we don't want to be the team that's ultimately left out of this quarterback class that Kweisi has said, oh yeah, we started scouting this class like a full year ago to prepare ourselves for this moment. Right. And overall, I think this results what Daniel Jeremiah has remains the most realistic for the Vikings that they will end up getting to four. They will end up taking JJ McCarthy, but that is not decided yet. And it's also possible that part of the holdup is look, if you, and we don't know this because Casey hasn't called me and told me about every phone call, but imagine if you called Arizona and they said, all right, we'll do that deal with you and say, okay, but let me check with new England first. And new England says, how about you call us back like April 12th after we have gone to JJ

McCarthy's pro day. And after we've gone to Drake Mays pro day, and after we've had our final meetings where we set lock in our board and, and all those types of things. And that might be the case or gosh, man, if this goes to draft night and the Vikings on draft day are 11 and 23 still Raj goes up to the podium do do do do do and he's like Caleb Williams off the board

and we're going are they gonna stay at 11 what's going on like the drama of this with this trade with the Texans has just ramped up to now every day I I'm like, got the alerts on when is this going to happen? But it is not crazy to think that it could be all the way up to draft them. Well, it did happen with the bills. And I remember sweating that 2018 draft. Like, are they just going to, I think they were at 16 and it was like, are they just going to sit there? No, they're going to trade up. Right. And it was like, which quarterback. And a lot of people wanted Josh Rosen, me included. But that went right until the cardinals were on the clock at seven it was like oh there's a trade like they're gonna pick one of these quarterbacks definitely was par for the course

for the bills to just make it be as nail-biting as possible and i think for the vikings too hey by the way the whole way we view this entire offseason just hinges on this one thing so no big deal definitely whatever. Right. Uh, but again, it could happen. It could happen tomorrow. It could happen draft night. And, uh, guess what? We're going to talk about it all the way up until then. So one of the things you and I have done every year is we have looked at the quarterback class and we have made nineties slash early two thousands quarterback comparisons. And we have reached that point. and also people can

look forward to when we make our bust comparisons it's the episode that uh everyone loves to hate when we make our bust comparisons especially because a lot of people think that those are our true comparisons for all of the quarterbacks or the players and you got to be like no these are just if they are boss, they will resemble dot, dot, dot. So that's just, I'm putting out that it's not this episode,

but when we do it, it's not our, like, we don't think all these quarterbacks are going to be like Jamarcus, Russell, Ryan leap. I love to look when you write the article on this, I love to look at the responses and people tell you,

this guy's not like that guy and he's going to be better and everything but the reality is that there are busts but in this case we're not going busts we're going 90s comps and in my mind it was the guy who he reminds me of the most that worked out like i'm not going with yeah sure same oh yeah yeah caleb williams jamarcus russell like that just that's not something we're going to do here. So I'm going to kick it off with Caleb Williams and my Caleb Williams comp is Donovan McNabb. I think that he is a talented playmaker who is very, very gifted with arm talent and physical skills that will have some flaws. And that's how I looked at Donovan McNabb, one of the great quarterbacks of a generation and probably got

unfairly criticized. I mean, my gosh, he went to the NFC championship and the Superbowl. And there was always, because you play in Philadelphia, you get hammered. But I think that there's a lot of similarities that McNabb was a great running quarterback, but it wasn't his only thing. It wasn't like he was Vic and his, his football could be a little, you know, inconsistent on short and easy passes, but also he could drop crazy dimes. So that's who I'm going with Donovan McNabb for Caleb Williams. And if the bears hit on him, they're probably going to be really good for a long time if they get the donovan mcnabb type player so who'd you have donovan was so underrated even though it was like real football fans were like yeah he's he's good but it felt like the the local

that notorious uh philly sports radio just like hammered him all the time if they weren't going like 14 and two every year. Anyway, I'm not doing this on purpose to kind of go with, I don't want to say a bust comp, but when you hear the name, it's not a Donovan McNabb level player. But I thought of this in my head. Then I went back to watch on YouTube and the first, and like, there are highlights of this player from the, I believe early two thousands. And the first like quote from a broadcaster is trying to tackle this quarterback is like trying to guard Allen Iverson one-on-one that is Seneca Wallace from Iowa state played, uh, Seattle Seahawks, a few other teams. And when I went back to watch,

I was like, I want to make sure I'm not like totally off on my memory here. He was doing like Caleb Williams-esque stuff. Just the NFL was not ready for that. He was little. He was throwing across his body. There's a run about a minute into that highlight. If you literally just type in Seneca Wallace highlights from Iowa State, where he like runs to the right, pump fakes three times, and then reverses his field and runs all the way back like 30 yards

for a touchdown of course Caleb Williams is a much more prolific passer mostly just because of the arm strength and the accuracy that he has so I can imagine the comment section with this take but I will say this that if someone likes Seneca Wallace and you'd have to remember it, if they were coming out now, they would just get a lot more attention than they did then because that it just wasn't the style of quarterback that the NFL was looking at. And really, I mean, when you, and here's the proof, Lamar Jackson went 32nd overall. And so even up until Mah home six years ago are jackson right there was a lot of questioning of quarterbacks who scrambled around quarterbacks who made crazy plays were inventive a lot of it was well he doesn't really play pro football that's a college quarterback that was how you

know doug flutie ended up in the cfl because teams thought oh he runs around too much running quarterbacks can't win that whole type of thing. So people will say that you're insane because this quarterback did not end up working out except for on every Madden season I ever used them. But I do think that if there was somebody who was playing to his creativity and playing to his strengths in the year, 2024 that Seneca Wallace is a guy who just, if he came along in a different era, may have been a great NFL quarterback. So let's take a look at Drake May. And the reason we

extend into the early 2000s is basically so I can use some of those comps that more people remember, honestly, than the nineties quarterbacks. I think with Drake may the old school comparison is early Eli Manning that not old, not old Eli Manning, not like just decrepit. Can't really move anymore. It doesn't have the same arm strength, not the one you remember from 2016,

the 2004, five, six, seven, Eli Manning. He is big. He is very wild with the football, like willing to take whatever risk that it takes. You could see him throwing five picks in a game as Eli Manning once did against the Minnesota Vikings, but, uh, you also the size and Manning was not a runner, but early in his career had mobility, like would scramble around and make plays and stuff like that outside of the pocket.

And, uh, I think also similar to Drake may, it might take some patience in working through that guy and, uh, you know, the way that he plays. So I see some stylistic comparison, the size, the arm strength. So that's who I'm going with is early. Again, that is to be made clear early Peyton or early Eli Manning, not Peyton Manning, Eli Manning. That's the one. And had you not told me that before we went on the air, like I would have gravitated toward that one because it's so good. Um, and beyond like the five interception game that, that we could maybe see from Drake May, we saw from Eli, then like Eli Manning, like the five interception game that we could maybe see from Drake May, we saw from Eli.

Then like Eli Manning, like the next week would throw for 350 yards and it would be like he forgot already that he threw five picks the week before against a better defense or a worse defense. That's the kind of kind of up and downs that you get with Drake May, but I'm going to go with Jake Plummer and more like college Jake Plummer in that he elevated that Arizona State program. They played in the Rose Bowl against a loaded Ohio State team that had like a bunch of future NFL guys on it, could run around a little bit, had a strong arm at the college ranks and for a short while was a pretty capable starter in the NFL. Similarly, Big was certainly not hindered by his size and was willing to throw his body on the line on third and seven and dive to get that first down. I feel like Drake May, and we've talked about it,

can be awkward sometimes with his improvisation, but kind of gets the job done. When he was in Denver, that's kind of how Jake Plummer was, where it never looked like, oh, that is picture-perfect textbook, but he got the first down and they won the game and this was not a great team and he's in the playoffs. Kind of that gamer mentality. That's kind of how I feel about Drake May elevating that North Carolina program

and then still playing well last year after losing Josh Downs to the Colts in the third round, his kind of star receiver that caught a ton of passes out of the slot. Drake May, Jake Plummer, just guys that will get it done and have some pretty good traits to go along with it too. Folks, if you don't know what a VPN is, you might actually need one and not even realize it. If you already know the positives, you also might not be using the right product. In either case, you want to check out Surfshark.

VPNs keep your information safe and anyone who tries to track what you're doing online will not be able to do so if you are using Surfshark. IP addresses, what you're searching, what games you're playing or what shows you're streaming will belong to you and you only. Plus, if you use a VPN, you can virtually travel the world from the comfort of your own home. And Surfshark gives you over 100 countries to choose from.

Once you change your virtual location, you'll be able to bypass censorship and restrictions. Find your favorites on Netflix, Hulu, Disney, and other streaming services, and even access new libraries to watch even more content. Can't see a YouTube video because of your location? Use Surfshark VPN. Can't access that one website to buy limited edition sneakers, use Surfshark VPN. Try Surfshark today totally risk-free with a 30-day money-back guarantee. Get Surfshark VPN at surfshark.deals slash purpleinsider. Enter the promo code purpleinsider for three extra months for free. You heard me right, three extra months for free. That is surf shark dot deals

slash purple insider. Yeah. I mean, Jake Plummer was a really phenomenal athlete with huge arm talent and played with one of the worst franchises. I mean, people do not understand. If you think Arizona's bad now, I mean, that 80s and 90s Arizona was unbelievably bad. For a long time, yeah. Right, Chris Chandler, Steve Beerline, like all sorts of journeyman quarterbacks that they could never make work. And Plummer was supposed to be that guy,

struggled there, goes to Gary Kubiak, and Mike Shanahan has a lot of success there as so many people often did. So that that's a fun comparison of a guy who's toolsy and might again, might take some time to figure it out. Now this one, it's hard to be creative with Jaden Daniels. It is. So I'll let you go first with your Jay daniels comp we might have the same exact one because there's just not that many guys from that era who played in this style it'd be easier to make comparisons now although you know i've i'd mentioned to you that i've been watching spielman's podcast and spielman was talking on on cbs and he was talking about daniels and he says i've got a

comparison for jay daniels so i'm like oh okay let's hear it this should bes and he says, I've got a comparison for Jaden Daniels. So I'm like, oh, okay, let's hear it. This should be interesting. And he goes, Lamar Jackson. I'm like, okay, come on. Like the most obvious, like, come on, Rick, you can do better than that. But it is actually hard to do better than that because there are a few guys who actually run this effectively. So who did you go with, with Jaden Daniels? Yeah. And that's kind of why the Seneca Wallace one I went with for Caleb Williams, because yeah and that's kind of why the seneca wallace one i went with for caleb williams because there's not a lot of caleb williams comparisons like from the 90s in the 2000s because they're just quarterbacks weren't allowed to do that even in college and if they did like seneca wallace they never really made it in the nfl for jayden daniels i think i said this a

couple episodes ago so i apologize if i already spoiled that i went with randall cunningham different like kind of different body types but he was tall and lanky kind of like Jaden Daniels he ran around a lot and he was a big big time athlete for the quarterback position in his days in the 80s and the 90s and there were a bunch of there's actually a famous one against the Bills where he like eluded Bruce Smith in the end zone and then like threw it deep down the field. The bills had the, the red, uh, end zones. It was like the Astro turf. The Eagles are in the Kelly greens. It's a really, it's like a faint, obscurely famous play that we were like, Whoa, Randall Cunningham just like eluded Bruce Smith in his prime and

then dropped a dime deep down the field. And I always remember Cunningham even later in his career with the Vikings, was such a good downfield thrower. Like underneath, intermediate level, could be scatter shot. But like maybe it was just because he had Randy Moss and he had Chris Carter. But it was like, man, he could drop it in the bucket as well as any quarterback in the league. That's kind of how I feel about Jaden Daniels. He can run around and his deep ball accuracy is very good.

So that's who I went with for Jaden Daniels. He can run around and his deep ball accuracy is very good. So that's who I went with for Jaden Daniels. So I think Randall Cunningham is the clear choice because of the running being so spectacular that it is very difficult to find guys who can run that well. And I'll give you some other considerations that I had. The difference between Randall Cunningham and Jaden Daniels to me is velo. Likeandall cunningham could throw the ball as hard as anyone in nfl history i guarantee you big wind up to huge one just laser beams i don't see that from jayden daniels i see accuracy down the field but i don't see laser beams in the same way that like you said that play against bruce Smith, where he dodges him in the end zone. I think he throws the ball like 65 yards in the air, like after that Ralph Wilson state. Yeah. After that, because you could tell he's in the end zone and he throws it to the other

like 45. So it was like, Whoa, that's like 60 yards in the air and mid play and Ralph Wilson stadium. That's insane. A rich stadium at the time. But, uh, I was trying, I was trying and you come up with some of the obvious ones like Steve McNair, uh, better, you know, I don't know. I don't know about that. Like, you know, Steve McNair is different body, but, but, you know, like Steve McNair didn't have a laser. I don't think Steve McNair was accuracy more than he was. And the thing was that McNair was shorter, but he was a house. Like if you try to take him down, he was a kind of a fire hydrant. That's not Jaden Daniels. The other one I thought of that would be the highest end of the highest end would be Steve

Young, who was a great, great scrambler and could run for an 80 yard touchdown as he did once against the Vikings and was very accurate and learned to play within his system and so forth. But it was a little wild at the beginning of his career and, you know, more of, more of a playmaker and scrambler than he was what you remember at the end. But there's just, you know, look, the NFL has changed and I was hunting up and down left and right, trying to find anybody who could be like him. The other one would be, and again, doesn't have the hose of this guy, Skinny Dante. Skinny Dante Culpepper was the other one.

Good one. What about, I know this is not, it's technically, if we're cutting off at like 2009, then maybe this doesn't count. What about RG3?3 yeah i could see that rg3 like he was a spindly runner was great with his downfield touch at baylor had great receivers at baylor so it kind of helped it out a little bit took a lot of shots in the open field it kind of hurt him a little bit could be rg3 but that is sneaking into uh you know into the 2010s being that it was 2012.

Yeah, I like it. I mean, there's just such a smaller sample of players to work with than for someone like J.J. McCarthy. Now, I like my J.J. McCarthy comparison, so I'm going to give it to you first. I am going to go with Matt Hasselbeck. Did I get the same one as you? Is that the same guy? Because this is exact same. All right. Well, look, I mean, this is a guy who didn't throw for crazy numbers,

won a bunch of games and did it with, uh, some playmaking ability because Hasselbeck was a better playmaker than I guess maybe you'd think, um, from someone that didn't have the greatest physical tools run first kind of offense with Seattle. I mean, I don't think you have to squint too hard to see a Matt Hasselbeck type of quarterback in J.J. McCarthy. Yeah, that's who I had written down. I'm trying to think of another one, but he's good in that there was that stretch. If you look back, and it obviously culminated with them getting to a Super Bowl,

where like the NFC West was kind of like a wasteland. There was like the 49ers were not very good. The Rams were not very good. And it was just the Seahawks would just win the division every year, go 10 and 6, 11 and 5. And Hasselbeck was like top seven in quarterback rating. Never threw for like 5,000 yards. Never threw 40 touchdowns. But it was just like so steady for so long.

And you're like, oh, I can see it kind of. He's not really that amazing, but just got the job done, could hit the post down the seam, maybe a deep corner route every once in a while. That's kind of the vibe that you get if you're envisioning J.J. McCarthy. Like, hey, if it works out, it could look a lot like Matt Hasselbeck did in those early to mid-2000s Seahawks teams. I'll give you my other one. My other nomination was Mark Brunel, except for right-handed right-handed Mark Brunel because Brunel, I thought had a pretty strong arm, really good athlete.

Definitely a playmaker could get in space. Quick feet. Wasn't like a rocket, but it was like really quick feet and had great receivers and uh that's what jj mccarthy will have if he comes to the vikings so maybe there's a comp there so uh now let's get into the other two guys um i really like my michael pennix comp so i'm gonna let you go first because i i i am in love with my michael pennix comp so go ahead all right i feel like you've given this one before and the fact that you're introing it or you're kind of foreshadowing, it makes me think we might have the same one with Michael Penix. Not a lefty. I'm going with former number one overall pick

Jeff George. Oh, okay. This is different. This is different. Who had an absolute cannon. I mean, it's like if you Google like biggest draft bust you'll find jeff george on a lot of lists because he played for like 50 teens he was like he just played everywhere and he never was really that good and i don't think that michael pennix he didn't have this he does not like now have the same like seismic impact that george did which i don't remember this per se, but I've gone back to look that like George coming out of Illinois was like, this guy has like Dan Marino's arm.

Like he is on another level. We don't feel that way with Pennix, but we do agree. I think everyone agrees. Like he has a cannon, like he throws the football down the field. And even on a 15 yard dig route, as hard as anyone in this class,

maybe outside of Joe Milton. But kind of a little scattershot at times, but then every once in a while, it's, whoa, that was a four. And I've looked it up. I did it last night. Look up Jeff George's best throws in the NFL. There are some Brett Favre-esque throws on there where you're like, Jeff George did that?

I don't remember that. Like 40 yards between the safety and the corner down the sideline as he's getting hit. I could see Penix making some of those throws in the NFL. George was maybe a little bit better of an athlete, but he was not, I don't remember him at least, running around a crazy amount. It's kind of the same way with Penix. Penix is not a total statue. He can move a little bit, but the arm talent and just the ability and the want to just throw rockets all over the field, that's how I landed on Jeff George for Michael Penix.

So when you said former number one overall pick, I thought we were going to pick the same player because I took another number one overall pick on Jeff George. Jeff George has one of the great highlight reels ever. It's just that the consistency element of Jeff George was not really there. But as far as highlight reel laser beams that I look at as throws that break the camera, like whoever the cameraman is, cannot keep up with the football. It's moving so so fast and that's what he had i went with drew bletzo they the purest of pure pocket passers this guy never moved off his spot ever no and i and

pennix is the same way like he does not move off his spot he just stood there and he just let it rip and let it rip and let it rip and you know what it wasn't always the most accurate sometimes he would be a little wild with some of his throws. And if you got people around Drew Bledsoe, he did not like that. It did not like that at all. And when he would play against the bills, I would never be super terrified because I was like, well, you can get to him. And I think it's the same way with Michael Penix. Like Bledsoe is taller, but Penix has that same, like super long arms, huge hands. When Drew Bledsoe would hold a football, it looked like me holding a tennis ball and it was, his hands were so

gigantic. So I kind of, I thought that there's a very similar vibe to those two players and how good Drew Bledsoe would have been in today's game. Like, I don't know because of the lack of, you know, mobility and so forth so I like that one yeah that's a really good one I guess I didn't I should have thought of that one the the uh their size their statures were a little different like you're saying Bledsoe was I think a little bigger and like wider but it's not like Penix is small like he's not 6'1 190 pounds he's he's decent size, but in terms of just throwing the ball and being like, look, I can't really move for you much, but I want to throw it 50 times a game.

I believe he had a game, didn't he, with the Bills where he threw it like 58 times in like 05 when like no one was doing that. I believe he still owns the Bills single game passing record, like 460 something. You could see again in the right situation, Michael Penix just having a game like that. And then also having a game where he gets sacked like nine times. Well, uh, Bledsoe once against the Vikings, 1994 through the ball, 70 times in a victory over Warren moon. Yeah, that happened. Last one is Bo Nix. I went, uh, uh, yeah, I'll go first on this one. I went with Jim Harbaugh for Bo Nix because he doesn't have any spectacular skill. Remember when they had those things where the guys would go to the pro bowl and they would throw the ball

at the targets and stuff like that. And they would do, they would do the longest throw and Brett Favre would throw it 82 yards or something. And Jim Harbaugh would throw it 56. And they'd be like, what the heck? This guy's in the pro bowl. He threw like 56 yards. That is, I think Bo Nix to me where I think he, and Harbaugh would run and he was a playmaker, but he wasn't a spectacular one. And he kind of just had to grind it out by being smart, by being tough and doing just enough to win games. And I think if you're projecting Bo Nix future, I mean, kind of a quarterback who is good and could potentially start, but is not necessarily a 10 year franchise quarterback is probably who you're looking at with somebody like Bo Nix.

So that is my nineties comparison for him. That's a good one. And if I remember correctly, was he not, Jim Harbaugh, with the Colts, near Hail Mary catch away from going to a Super Bowl? I believe I watched it at my cousin's house when I was like six. In the Three Rivers Stadium, the ball was right in the Colts player hand, but dropped it. So he was pretty successful in the NFL.

Like you said, he was in the Pro Bowl despite not being able to throw at 60 yards. That's a good, similar vibe with Bo Nix. A lot of what you said, I was thinking, I was like, all right, I feel better about my comparison because I do like that one a lot. A lot of what you were describing describes my guy, I think, Alex Smith. I think in terms of maybe a little bit better of an athlete, but like had to win with smarts, had to win with accuracy, had to win with understanding where to go with the football uh there was that football outsider stat that they still use today or i guess it's not football outsiders anymore but aaron shots

uh called alex where it's like air yards less expected like because he threw the ball short of the sticks more than like any other quarterback i could see bo nicks and he was successful doing that but there was always a, uh, in San Francisco. And then even early on in Kansas city, like, uh, uh, criticism that the media and their fans had like it's third and six. Oh, he's going to throw it three yards short of the sticks and hope that his wide receiver makes a play. I could see that being Bo Nix. Good athlete can get out in space, uh, scramble.

If you need him to, maybe keep the ball on read option. We know that Alex Smith was kind of like at the beginning of the read option with Urban Meyer at Utah. Again, maybe a little bigger, a little bit better of an athlete, but not a tremendously, I don't want to say he wasn't a gifted passer, but there were more gifted passers in the NFL during Alex Smith's prime, but he was actually pretty successful for a long time. And Bo Nix to me, because of all the smarts, I could see him having a long career like Alex Smith, because he's usually going to make the right decision. And for the most part, especially underneath be pretty accurate with where he throws the football.

Right. And there's going to be some limitations, but I think he will be able to operate an NFL offense. And if he went in the first round, I wouldn't be totally shocked considering the numbers he put up and the way that he ran their offense, because I have talked to people who are talent evaluators who really like them and they call them a field general. And they're like, yeah, he's out there. He can make a play. So as usual, we're mystified by where these quarterbacks are going to go and what order. But that was really fun trying to do our 90s, 2000s comps. And we will get to our bust comps. Also, you know, I think it's high time for a draft simulation.

So next week, it might be time to simulate the draft. And I think the next time we talk, I may be coming to you from Orlando, Florida doing at the owners meetings for next week when we do this podcast. So that'll be fun as well. Thanks so much for your time, Chris. Always, always a good time. And we are going all the way through the draft every week, Chris Trapasso draft show until, and then of course, after the draft, we'll break it down as well. So always appreciate it, man. And we are one week closer to the NFL draft. Thanks for your time.

Football. Football. Football. you