Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - CBS Sports draft analyst Chris Trapasso breaks down his "buyer beware" picks in the NFL Draft

Episode Date: April 9, 2022

Matthew Coller and CBS Sports Draft analyst Chris Trapasso react to Derek Stingley Jr.'s impressive numbers at his pro day and discuss how to spot players in the draft who the Vikings should be wary of picking... including a popular offensive lineman prospect. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Novocaine. Only in theaters March 14th. hello welcome to another episode of purple insider where look this time in the chris trapasso draft show no jokes allowed full draft season we are very serious about people's pro days and what they run in the 10 yard split will determine their fate chris okay so what a day for derrick stingley jr football yeah i mean i could sense the the sarcasm just dripping all over that rant at the beginning there uh yeah i mean, I was someone that watched Eric Stingley really early on and I had him as my number two overall player almost from the get-go and that's where he stayed. So yeah, for fans, for media members, and I think maybe some coaches or

new GMs that were kind of quote unquote late to the process, it was a big deal. The one thing as a draft analyst that does this year round is that I would say him jumping 30 and a half inches 38 and a half inches and running between 437 and 444 you know at his pro day which is not wouldn't be shocking if it was juiced a little bit was the fact that he's coming off that Liz Frank injury and that like I think he almost had an excuse built in that had he not jumped as high as he did or ran as fast as he did, there would be some criticism. But then a lot of people would say, hey, he had a broken bone in his foot or whatever a Liz Frank injury is. I know it's serious for a wide receiver and for a cornerback especially.

So that was the biggest takeaway that I took from it was just like, man, he looks – he's got to be 100% because those are 100% type figures for Derek Stingley. All right, well, let's play your draft intro and then I will talk about it more seriously about what it means for the Vikings. Good evening and welcome to the NFL Draft. Draft season is here. Come on, come on. There you go. To break down every need. They not gonna pick a quarterback they need office lineman they need defense every pro day he had a phenomenal pro day

explosive really good in the three cone the broad jump and every mock you could probably tell me if you think the Vikings would actually do it I can tell you as a draft analyst that they absolutely should welcome to the chris trapasso draft show on purple insider this is a good podcast to listen to leading into the draft okay so i tweeted that derrick stingley jr after running a four or whatever it was very fast would not be going to the vikings he won't be available because everyone wanted to see if his injury was healed and if he was fast also big day for pronunciation of liz frank or liz fronk is which i know i've heard it both ways it's's a crazy time to live. But I really think that the level of prospect he is that everyone just want to know, are you fast?

Are you healthy? And that remains an issue from his last couple of seasons. But he is still a tremendous prospect that now I feel like will likely go higher. But also, it's not that that serious people. I got people tweeting me about, Oh, his broad jump. Wasn't good enough at this. I'm like, look, look, look, look, look, I have no idea. All right. I don't know if that's actually going to be the case, but it makes sense to me that it would be significant that he is this fast and that it's very possible. He could suddenly be out of the running for a guy that makes so much sense for the Minnesota Vikings.

Yeah, I think we have to all remember that Daniel Jeremiah, I think in the 2019 draft class, his mock draft the day before the draft or the morning of, I think he even updated it. He hit on eight of the 32 first round picks, prospect and team. I don't think position necessarily. And afterward afterward he said that was like the most he's ever gotten so we really have no clue especially where these guys are going to go uh the one thing that's weird about this and i'm not trying to speak from an ivory tower saying like hey i was you know i was first on derrick singly i'm not a big i watched him before you type of draft analyst that i get everyone's on their own schedules, whatever.

But I think having me on this show for your listeners, it's I'm someone that is doing it from before the buzz begins or a prospect can lose steam with his draft stock. So I'm almost doing it as genuinely as possible because it's not, Hey, well, yeah, I watched Eric Stingley's pro day. Now I'm going to go back and watch his film and I'm going to grade him as a number two overall player. What's weird is that before he worked out, there was a lot of criticism out there that like, hey, yes, he does get injured a lot. Like we're a little concerned about that. But a lot of people's main gripe was that, oh, his 2020 and 2021 film was not really as good as 2019. It wasn't about, hey,

like he's injured and if he's healthy, he's going to be picked ahead of Sauce Gardner. So everyone kind of this course on NFL Draft Twitter or NFL Twitter in general being like, look at how fast he is. Wow. He might be a top 10 pick now. It's like, wait a a minute how did this change his quote-unquote bad film from 2020 and 2021 to me it didn't do that um and to the the trolls back at you trolling saying that a 10 foot two inch broad jump isn't that good it's like this i think 60 something percentile so it's not amazing uh and i think that there's still a decent chance that derrick stingley's on the board like i said right before we started he could go number two overall to the Dan Campbell Lions. And I think that would be kind of surprising, but not like, holy crap, this is like Tyson Alu-Alu going in the first round when Mel Kuyper didn't even have him graded.

That was, to me, the biggest draft shock that I can remember. But he could also get passed by the Vikings and go in the 20s. I don't think today really changed that much. If you liked Derek Stingley before, you thought he was that fast, you thought he was that explosive, and if you were a little bit concerned, maybe him running as fast as he did coming off the Liz Franck injury helped a little, but in general, if you didn't like him, you weren't a huge fan of his 2020 and 2021 film just to be clear i have no idea whether it's liz frank or liz frank i've never heard liz frank but i'm just saying i've heard it i'm not saying that i know that that's the case

or maybe i'm just messing with you i guess that's for you to decide so um but no here's the thing also i can look this stuff up, like how much someone's broad jump matters as a corner, because we have a wonderful internet world. And the thing that I was actually making fun of, the 10 yard split has correlated more to cornerback success than anything else. It's not even close.

I believe it was Kevin Cole of Pro Football Focus who studied this. Was it vertical up there? I think vertical might've been uh but let me see here i tweeted this like not too long 40 yard dash was not a strong correlation at all broad jump was not i want to say it was 10 yard split and then vertical they were one two i believe yeah actually you know what why don't we go through them just real quick? Cause I have this through all the defensive positions. Hang on. I'll find it. Yeah.

Okay. Because I was curious, like, that's a good question. Does it matter that he didn't broad jump enough? Which I mean, I mean, I made, I made the joke of like, look, this isn't the broad jump Olympics, man. This is like playing football. So it turns out that the three cone means like less than nothing the broad jump means absolutely nothing the 40 something but not everything 10 yard split a lot

and also no surprise here but height and weight i mean those matter arm less than you'd think um so yeah oh vertical yes you're asking about the vertical the vertical is that is second to the 10 yards yeah so those i read that article too it was good yeah those are the things that make a difference um when it comes to cornerbacks and i think that you know what stingley did today was good it was good for him especially the 10 yard split i guess the larger point here is that uh why i'm always trying to give my original, genuine, sincere, whatever other word you want to describe to be just true to the heart, evaluations are, I feel like with the pro day circuit, it's just a way to use confirmation

bias. If you really liked Derek Singley, you tweet out, wow, look at how great he is. If you don't, you say, hey, I didn't really like his film anyway. If you think like Derek Singley, you tweet out, wow, look at how great he is. If you don't, you say, hey, you know, I didn't really like his film anyway. If you think someone's really fast on film, you're kind of double counting it. If he runs a really fast 40, it shouldn't really boost his stock if you already had him higher. So for as much as I definitely read articles like Kevin Cole's there, believe in analytics. I love, you know, three cone for edge rushers there's a strong correlation there at that position but in general it's like it sounds like old football guy in me saying it that film matters more than anything else and not just film of like even production

because i think a lot of times at every position including corner and edge rusher you can be kind of schemed up a little bit it It's, you really have to watch the traits. And I've like noticed that like, when I'm watching film, I'm watching football players and I love it. I'm grateful for my job. I'm really like analyzing human beings movements on a field. Like how twitchy was he? What, what grade should I give that? Should that be an eight, six or an eight, seven? And that's, I have all these layers to my scouting grade book, but I realize I'm like, there's a lot of subjectivity to this. And it's really grading the traits and how they will project to the next level. So the pro day stuff, I don't, I really don't factor in much at all into my grading system. Cause I feel like

it's just a way to confirm an opinion that you already have of a player off watching his film. That's the thing. Sometimes you just have to be a little self-aware about everything and be like, you know, I sent you this, this video clip of Desmond Ritter.

And I was like, this is why I don't believe in him. Look at this. And then like, what am I doing with my life here? But which, which I do want to get your opinion on at some point, because I was talking

about this with courtney cronin the other day it's like the the desmond ritter ball floating i think is a problem like that it doesn't like zip but uh let's not get off track here because i did want to get uh to tell people what the other positions were so the three cone actually has crazy correlation with the interior defensive lineman which i don't think is a huge surprise i mean the three cone is quickness and foot footwork and stuff like that explosion too no surprise also the bench would matter there so shocking football stuff here folks if you're quicker and stronger it's good um for for edge defender it's kind of a combo of a lot of things, like the three cone, the vertical, the 40, those sort of all are part of it.

Height and weight is less than you would think, but the 40 seems to really attract teams in terms of their draft position, but doesn't have the same sort of impact, which I think is kind of interesting. Off-ball linebackers, nobody cares about anymore. And safeties, I'm just kidding. I'll scroll back up. But we're just talking about how off-ball linebackers are easily replaced.

But off-ball linebackers are almost nothing. Nothing really jumps out to say, oh, wow, this must be the thing that you should really look for, which I think it's because it's an intelligence position. And safety, safety height and weight seem to matter a lot to draft position, but not so much to success and no shock there that the 40 and the 10 yard split. Well, this says, so this is a Kyle Hamilton thing that says the 40 kind of matters for safeties, which I think pops out, but I don't even know what Kyle Hamilton's real 40 is. I just know that some people might want us to think it's slow because they want Kyle Hamilton. I don't even know what Kyle Hamilton's real 40 is. I just know that some people might want us to think it's slow because they want Kyle Hamilton. I don't know.

It's draft season, baby. Yeah, I think, too, that about all that research and what matters, what doesn't, to use those in a way that is kind of functional for a pre-draft process. It's like when there is a player that I watch his film and I'll use a Wisconsin linebacker, Leo Chanel, he's like a second or third round type. On film, I literally thought he was one of the slowest linebackers I've seen. Like downhill, good, big, overpowering. But I was like, this guy is not.

Like occasionally looked a little twitchy, did not look rangy. And then he jumped like 40 inches and ran like four or five. And everyone's like, this guy is going to go top 40 now. That's a red flag to me. If you're like that good of a tester, but you don't show that on the field, that's like a little concerning. So it's not really for me at all that i see someone run it it's not very often that i see someone run a lot faster and go well i gotta boost his speed score now it's like i did

not see and a lot of the guys this year i don't know if like there was that theory during the combine that like the one night of combine was kind of juiced and then the next night they use like a different stopwatch or something um i know it's like when the officials come out, they're like electronically timed, but a lot of the corners, I think it was, were really fast receivers. Like there was like Bo Mountain from Rutgers, like ran in the high four threes. And I was like, I have high four threes. Like a lot of players don't play to their speed or to what they show at a pro day or at a combine. So that's another reason why, you know, during this period, not just coming on this show, their speed on the feet or to what they show at a pro day or at a combine. So that's another reason why, you know, during this period,

not just coming on this show, but radio shows stuff like how much of an impact of this pro day. I think it can matter to teams, but it shouldn't. And I think that's where teams can get into a lot of trouble where they fall in love with a workout. And then on the field that players doesn't have that type of athletic Ritter is definitely that guy for athleticism. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.

Doesn't play with it. I have. No. All right. I mentioned this somewhere, but like, here's my comp for Ritter, Josh McCown. I think he's Josh McCown because his athletic scores are outrageous, but you never really see it in his play.

He seems like a really, really great guy, like smart leadership, all that stuff the ball just doesn't have a whole lot of juice and if you have josh mccown as your quarterback you're probably not winning a lot um but i think you could also be functional on a rookie quarterback contract so start but not necessarily take team to the super bowl and i don't see a high-end skill of his that could take a team to the super bowl that And I don't see a high end skill of his that could take a team to the super bowl that as I see him gaining, this is because this is like my draft season hot take and I'll be excited to track it. But this is like what I'm seeing from him as I watch more

breakdowns and more coach people tell me that his footwork is wonderful. I'm just like, guys, the ball doesn't get there very fast and he doesn't use any of that speed. So what am I missing here? No, I think that's a good one. And it's kind of to the it's related to the idea that that we talked about. And then I wrote about the comparing top prospects to bus. I think every year to more specifically at quarterback, like everyone's comparison at quarterback, like is either a really good starter that got picked later, like Dak Prescott, maybe Kirk Cousins, if we're quarterback like is either a really good starter that got picked later like Dak Prescott maybe Kirk Cousins if we're going to call him a really

good starter or everyone is Kirk Cousins who's not everyone every white guy yes everyone that's white that's not like 6'5 with a big arm is Kirk Cousins but what I'm saying is is that I think a lot of the first round prospects every year they always get compared to other former first round prospects when that shouldn't be the case if that's not how that player is stylistically. I like that Josh McCown comparison a lot. And what I would say the next step from that in terms of you monitoring it, the case study would be, well, if Desmond Ritter goes in the first round and it seems like at this point a lock, I think he could be that surprise that goes way earlier than anyone expects um like goes in the top 10 or something or top 15 like a like a surprise team or there's a trade the saints move up again uh to see how hey maybe this guy's skills are very similar to josh mccown's

what would josh mccown's career have been like had he been a first round pick where a team was like hey we're fully invested in you we're gonna build around you we're gonna get the plays that you want like wasn't josh mccall like a seventh round pick and he was like a journeyman all around the league obviously that to me like that's a totally different story where you look at the the history of draft position matters at every position um but not so because oh hey you got picked in the seventh round you're not as good it's just you're not going to got picked in the seventh round. You're not as good. It's just you're not going to get as many reps in practice. They're not building around you.

That's why Joe Goodberry, who we know well, that's a big Cincinnati Bengals guy, very, very smart analyst here from Western New York, that he mentioned that when the Bengals picked Andy Dalton, they had to because A.J. Green was not going to last much further than the fourth or fifth pick. But with Andy Dalton going in the second round, it was kind of like, yeah, we're not, I mean, they tried to build around him, but I think it was like, oh, you were a second round pick. So that's kind of what we could look at with Desmond Ritter. Like maybe a Josh McCown skillset could have actually worked out and been good but no teams were ever willing to

invest in him as their starter yeah i asked kirk cousins this once what he thought of uh like why being a fourth round pick well why he thought quarterbacks succeeded and why they didn't i mean as a fourth round pick he's had unbelievable success for his draft status and um you know i mean he might have made more money than almost every first round pick at this point. And I just asked him like, what do you think? And he said the biggest thing for him. And I'm sure there's a hundred other things you could put into it. Some guys cannot throw the ball accurately. And Sage Rosenfeld explained that the NFL ball is a little different than the college ball. And it was like, what in the world? We already have enough

trouble college football. You have to make the ball different so anyway um i think he said it's like a little more slick or it's a little harder to throw whatever it is anyway that's not the point uh but what kirk was saying was like look i landed on a washington team where i didn't have to start right away and a shanahan was my coach and another shanahan was my coach and then mcveigh was my coach and then they gave me deshaun jackson pierre garcon vernon davis and uh josh reed or uh yeah uh jordan reed and so like that was their uh josh reed is a tv guy from buffalo i know so that's uh like that was a perfect circumstance. Trent Williams is left tackle. Brandon Scherf is his right guard.

And so you could step in and have an opportunity to succeed. They're running the boots all the time. They're giving him lots of opportunity. And so he was allowed to develop by sitting. And then when he did start, got the right opportunity. So could a Desmond Ritter in the right spot? And that's where it's always so difficult to analyze your takes where it's like, I don't think Josh Rosen actually succeeds in any spot. Cause he was so lost.

And that was at first the, Oh, well they fired their offensive coordinator and their coach was bad. And then, but once it's two teams, once you don't show anything as a backup with any other teams that they want to keep you like, okay. But, you know, maybe Ryan Tannehill is a good example for this, where there's a guy who showed flashes, but he also had Adam Gase. And then he escapes and then turns into a very good quarterback. There was one more thing I wanted to say. Are you a wrestling guy? You watch Professor Wrestling?

I did when I was a kid, but I seem to be in the growing minority that does not watch that. Okay. So I watched a little when I was a kid as well. Hulk Hogan. I played the video games. And a pandemic thing was my wife wanted to watch it because we watched a Netflix show called Glow, which was about women wrestlers. It was a thing that really happened in the 80s and super fun. Highly suggest. So we want to watch the real thing.

And I had not watched in many, many years, like literally since Hulk Hogan. And, uh, so that the, so we're watching not too long ago and it's like, wait, Rhonda Rousey is a professional wrestler now. When did this happen? And so I'm getting to a draft comparison, I promise you. And then we can like draft Sam or talk about something else. But so anyway, I'm watching Ronda Rousey and I'm like, everything looks a step slow because she's new to this. And so even though she's a way better athlete than the person she's wrestling against, it just looks like it's not quite there. And I think that that is what you're talking about when you watch a prospect and then you

see them test and you go, holy hell, that was not there on tape. It's like if your mind is if your mind is a step slow and you can't maximize fully your athleticism, it doesn't really matter what you do in a track meet. Yeah, and I think that would be across a lot of other sports. Like if you're in basketball and you're doing the, the, uh, layup line, you make every single layup you're going, maybe your coach yells at you, you crank it up to 80%. And then in a game, it's a fast break and you need to go full bore and you miss more layups than you ever thought you could possibly miss.

Like, how did I just miss that layup i think game speed and time speed that's why you know we hear a lot about that and i think too that we the media are behind in that i don't know about the combine but it feels like what for the last three or four years now teams have had like the mile per hour data on the players a quick bill story which is not something like an inside story but it's just out there um brandon bean the Bills GM before the 20, what would it be? 2020 combine loved Gabriel Davis. And when he ran, I think in the mid four fives, he like, there was some video that the Bills website put out or something that said

it like showed Brandon Bean react to it. And he was like, yes, I'm so glad that he ran as slow as he did. I think it was mid four fives because he's like, we have him a lot faster than that. They picked him in the fourth round. They were happy. They got great value. And now they presumably have, you know, maybe a good number two wide receiver. So I think there are still some teams that see a great 40 from a receiver or a corner

or an edge rusher and get all excited and move them up the board. But I think a lot of teams, especially the ones that Seth Walder from ESPN always keeps tabs on how many analytics people are in front offices. Those teams, I think, are almost like, we have an advantage here that we know really how fast these guys are. Um, so we're not going to get lulled into a prospect or hate a prospect. If you run super fast or super slow folks, I've been working on a new studio space to shoot some videos and what better to have in the background than some awesome prints from our friends at soda stick. They have all the designs that they put on clothes, but you can also have them hanging on your walls too, which I will very soon.

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go to SodaStick.com. That's S-O-T-A-S- it, go to sodastick.com. That's S O T A S T I C K.com. Use the promo code purple insider for 15% off hats, hoodies, shirts, and of course your prints. I was talking to someone who worked for an NFL team on the analytics side for a long time the other day who said the data really is driving everything now which i think is amazing and it's one of the reasons that we have people from pro football focus on the show all the time and we talk about their numbers because well they're not just drafting for data of course they're using it in a lot of creative ways to try and get edges

and that's the history of the game. It's one of the reasons that I've always loved football is because it's always this push and pull this, like now teams are spreading it out. Now they're bringing fullbacks back. Now they're using, you know, less linebackers or their zone blitzing more to stop this, to gain this. It's, it's always so interesting. And now there's like this, there's this data battle of like of who can use all these numbers that are suddenly available that weren't available five years ago

to get edges and spot players like that. And I think, of course, the Vikings are trying to be ahead of this ballgame with someone like Kweisi Adafomensa. One quick thought on this, just so we're not on this point for too long. What I want to see is, and it's analytics-based, but it's beyond just the numbers. I want to see a team, and maybe it's the Vikings. They did it last year. I know, you know, different regime, but having an analytics-based GM.

A team that just constantly trades back and has like 9 to 11 picks every single year. I have not seen that happen. The Patriots, to a certain degree did it. The 49ers like in their Patrick Willis era did it a fair amount. Cause to me that being a draft guy, if there's one overarching thing, like we're saying, you know, vertical matters a little bit for this position, just get more roles at the table. Say we are going to hit on 25% of our draft picks. So let's get 10 draft picks instead of six draft picks i would love to see that because it almost feels like when a team trades back on draft night

you're like oh man they could have picked this guy and that guy and this guy in most scenarios and i haven't done you know full research on this in most scenarios the team that trades back back and gets more picks just based on the premise I just explained usually makes out a lot better but I think what's combating that is all these teams going all in and trading for all these players and not caring about first round picks it would just be interesting to see actually the one team Baltimore Ravens are so good getting compensatory picks that not that they trade back a lot but they have so many of those third fourth and fifth rounders that I think that's been a big part of what Ozzie Newsome kind of handed off to Eric DaCosta, their GM, saying, hey, just try to get as many comp picks. You get cheap labor. You're going to miss on a lot of

those third and fourth rounders, but you're also going to hit on them too. Super cheap deals. I would just love to see a team that just says, hey, we're going to trade back. Oh, sure. We'll trade back. We have no strong convictions here. It feels like the male ego or just the to see a team that just says, hey, we're going to trade back. Oh, sure, we'll trade back. We have no strong convictions here. It feels like the male ego or just the ego of a GM usually comes in and says, hey, we're going to trade up for this guy. We know he's going to be good when really, like you're saying, none of us know. So I would just add a little asterisk that I know everyone from Vikings land is thinking that doesn't mean get a bunch of sevenths.

Okay. Okay. The sevenths shouldn't really matter i think you should use those sevenths to trade for like middle of the road veterans during the offseason that is right getting seven or five seventh rounders to keep matthew collar waiting on saturday late evening to to have these picks roll in. That's not necessary. I cannot tell you how long of a day that is when the GM trades back and back and back and back and has all seven. It's like, come on. But I think it was, was it last year? They didn't take any sevens and it was amazing because everyone was still drafting and we were already doing the press conference. So anyway, not for me, but just cause it was a bad idea more than anything. But

to your point, if you're talking about trading down a few spots in the first, getting a fourth, trading down a few spots in the second, getting a fifth, like these things where you can develop players, that I think is a good idea. The only thing is that when you the higher you draft in the first, the more chance you have a Hall of Famer. So you have to kind of balance that like okay and that's i think a major thing with number 12 is 12 has produced some hall of fame level players i you know 18 has probably produced fewer but at this draft where everyone seems to be very down on most of the people in the first round like well what might be the difference and i think that's what you're always looking for so um now you did an article i was going to ask you about as we could call this show like draft hacks it's kind of like what we've been talking about it's like ways to hack the draft um i i buyer beware article on different players and i kind of gave

you mine i'm a little buyer beware on desmond Ritter. I'm not telling you that I know, I'm just saying that there's some of these things with the zip on the ball and kind of, maybe you're missing like some really key points when you're just watching his footwork. Also, how many times have we heard guys have great or terrible footwork and what the heck that doesn't ever seem to really matter in the NFL. It's so different. So anyway, that's a total aside. That's my buyer beware. Who is your buyer beware prospect or prospects? Okay, I have two headliners. The first, more so than anyone else, is Trevon Walker from Georgia.

Everything that I talked about earlier in that he had this insane combine workout, a three cone of 6.89 seconds at 6'5", 272. That's Miles Garrett's size. And to have a three cone under seven seconds at that size, ridiculous. He is nowhere near that bendy on film. He is legitimately stiff around the corner. The people that love him are like, hey, Georgia asked him to two gap a lot. I saw a fair amount of pin the ear back rushes where he just could not turn the corner.

And most almost six foot six edge rushers aren't really great at doing that anyway. So after you go from there, you're like, OK, well, there are some not super elastic edge rushers that are tall, that are good. Those guys are usually outstanding with their hands. I think Danell Hunter, for as much of a physical specimen as he is, his handwork is through the roof. It's up there in the top five to seven in terms of he has every pass rush move in the arsenal. It's powerful. It's effective. It's efficient. It's done in a blink of an eye and he's to the quarterback. Trevon Walker doesn't have that either. He's not good with his hands at all. He can stack

and shed for the run to stop the run on the edge. But in terms of his pass rushing moves, I was like, this guy has no pass rushing moves. He's just all speed off the ball, some power to his game, overpower, or just overwhelming being six foot five and almost 275 pounds and he might go number two overall or three or ahead of cave on tibido uh he just screams buyer beware to me because the two most important things in my opinion to be an edge rusher bend and pass rushing moves and yes he could learn those i think in the division rashaan gary is a decent example of that took him two years though he was basically on the bench in green bay for two years. And I think Rashawn Gary was a lot bendier and had some pass rushing moves. I wasn't a big fan of him because I thought they weren't of mid-first round caliber.

Trevon Walker's are like second or third round caliber. So he's the biggest one. Jermaine Johnson is the other. And this one is probably more on the Vikings radar because I don't think Trevon Walker is going to get to 12. Not super bendy either. He's taller. The pass rushing moves are better, so there's probably a greater likelihood that he becomes a quality NFL player.

But I don't think he's outstanding using his hands. I think there's a spin move. His bull rush is very good. But stringing together, a swipe move or a swim to the inside. I never really saw that. And I saw a lot of, I don't want to say stretches where he was invisible, but six or seven rushes in a row, really high, not a lot of power to his game and just kind of complacent. Like, Oh, I'm not going anywhere. I have no plan on this play. His splashes are better than Trevon Walker's and are what people are going to kind of hold themselves to

and what ESPN is going to show when he's picked. But to be like a top 10 or the number 12 overall pick, I want to see you be like electric around the corner or use your hands consistently very, very well. And I did not see that with Jermaine Johnson. Yeah, I think that the edge rushers are always really, really hard to balance the athleticism. And then everybody loves the senior bowl thing.

And he had one senior bowl practice, one senior bowl practice, like seven reps. And then he called it a week. He said, I'm not practicing anymore. I'm not playing. I totally get it. His agent probably said uh look at twitter everyone's freaking out about how good you did against this southern utah left tackle here at the senior bowl that's what shot him through the roof i think pre-senior bowl go look at grindingthemocks.com it's a great website that shows like the average or expected draft position of almost every prospect based on every mock draft on the internet.

The week before the combine, Jermaine Johnson was early second round, right where I have him graded. He has that one senior bowl practice, and then it's into the 20s, and then into the teens, and then in the top 10. He's a good player, but i think there's a decent amount of risk because he needs a lot more polish and he's a little bit higher taller not bendy around the corner southern utah just catching a stray yeah braxton jones is actually a good prospect i just threw him out there sorry just for just just for no reason underbirds the thunderbirds oh man i was that was what I was going to ask you. I was going to ask you what you think their nickname.

Yeah. You already knew. How am I surprised that you already knew? Well, for Better Call Saul fans, go Land Crabs. Have you watched Better Call Saul? I have not. Sorry. I'm a loser.

You're just grinding the tape. But I have one show that I've ever cared about my whole life, and it's Better Call Saul, and it's coming back. Anyway, go Land Crabs. People who have seen the show know exactly what I'm talking about. I have one show that I've ever cared about my whole life and it's better call Saul and it's coming back. Anyway, go land crabs. People who've seen the show know exactly what I'm talking about. I got another one for you and you might disagree because you're football,

you're football guy, but I think buyer beware on Tyler Lindabom because of what he plays and what his size is. And I see like his writeups, best center at prospect of our lifetime. He played baseball. He threw shot put he's a wrestler. He was unbelievable at all these things, but, and I'm not like, it's not even anything to do with Garrett Bradbury. It's just a center and it's a 290 pound center. And if you're going to be that boy, you got to buck some serious trends to be successful because everybody in the league has been saying your centers actually have to get

bigger because of the amount of interior pass rush. Everyone's attacking the middle of these days and how much impact that can have. Even if he's good is somewhat limited. And every year there's like eight free agent centers who can play to To me, that's a buyer beware on even if he's good, I'm not convinced that that matters that much. Well, yeah, that's what this whole buyer beware article is all about. Like what you said, bucking the trend, that they have to kind of beat the odds or buck the trends. That's why I think Trevon Walker is super risky.

Jermaine Johnson, not as much. But yes, with Linderbaum, I have him graded in the back portion of the first round. When I got to his film, I was like, you can see the size and length deficiencies on film. Now, yes, there are some incredible reach blocks. I wrote that he's the best screen blocker that I've ever watched because he's so athletic down the field. But what are you calling two screens a game, three maybe? And is that going to change you as an offense if you have a really good center on screens?

Not really. He does need to get a lot stronger. I think he's stronger than Garrett Bradbury was, like deals with power a little better. But again, 10 pounds lighter than Garrett Bradbury was and arms shorter than Garrett Bradbury was like deals with power a little better, but again, 10 pounds lighter than Garrett Bradbury was and arms shorter than Garrett Bradbury. And that, especially with not only just interior pass rushers, there's a lot of big athletic 330 pound plus nose tackles that can push the pocket. It's not just,

we're not in the era of the legitimate nose tackle or back in our day, the nose guard. You remember when you're, my dad used to call them nose guards where they do right on the ball and they couldn't do anything. They were just mountains in the middle of a defense. There is Vita Veya out there and Kenny Clark out there that are gigantic that can get after the passer. So yeah, there is buyer beware on Tyler Linderbaum, although wherever he's picked, and this is

again, no disrespect to any of these analysts, they're going to just rave over all the run-blocking ability and the zone-blocking scheme ability for Tyler Linderbaum. He has to pass protect on a regular basis, probably 60% to 70% of the time, and I think he's a little bit further behind than people want to actually admit to this late in the pre-draft process. That's the thing. It's impossible not to make the Bradbury comparison because what were

Bradbury's top things? It should be there, yeah. Reach blocks, screens. And you know what? In the NFL, he's actually been terrific at those things. And what does it mean? When it's third down and seven and they're sending Z'Darrius Smith over you as a center, can you deal with his power? Even when it's first and 10 seven and they're sending the Darius Smith over you as a center, can you deal with his power when it's,

even when it's first in 10? And like you said, Kenny Clark is coming after you. Can you deal with what he's lining up face to face with you? And he's going to get underneath you pretty quick. Can you deal with that? And that's way more. Yeah.

Way more bad. The length has been a huge issue for Bradbury. Everybody gets their hands on him first. So it's kind of like, it's like a chess where you get to move the white pieces first, you get to attack first. And that's what your nose tackle gets. He gets to attack you first and not you against him. I'm just, I'm just buyer beware. He might be the best center of all time. I don't know, but that's what I would say. Cause I get a lot of tweets like you should get them. They don't have a center and I'm like, yeah, but this didn't they so i don't know uh let's do a quick draft sim here yeah and uh take a look at how

things are kind of changing a little bit as pff updates the simulator and uh okay i'm gonna run through and then we can stop and talk about some stuff if you want to so first overall on this one is aiden hutchinson which i just think is just become kind of a thing that's not interesting and if it's not him then we'll all be shocked um Kyle Hamilton going second is that still possible that he would go to Detroit I think it's possible because Dan Campbell I think could do something unexpected like he just seems like a coach and obviously the GM Brad Holmes is there as well but with Dan Campbell being like the kind of unique old school football guy that he is,

I don't think anything's off the table at two with the lions. Uh, cave on Thibodeau. I think all of this Thibodeau noises to try to get them to fall. I still, absolutely. Yeah, me too.

Me too. When it sounds like it's made up, like, I don't know. He really loves himself. Some him, you know, like he's a pro athlete.

Isn't that good? Uh, all right. Uh, fourth man ahmad gardner when when i was watching cincinnati uh this year a little bit from time to time it'd be like oh this guy might be drafted and now like top five is that legit yeah i think he's gonna go there uh i'm a little concerned about how tall he is i think i've said a lot in podcast. I don't really want my corners to be 6'3 anymore, but the film is really good. The athleticism, the traits are there, and he didn't allow a touchdown in college. So to the Jets, maybe Giants at 4 or 5 seems like where he's going to go. He's concerned with how tall you are also. I'm way shorter than that.

Yes, you are. Icky Iquanu going fifth to the Giants seems legit. I guess Andrew Thomas isn't like a nightmare anymore so they maybe right tackle uh evan neal to the panthers who i think i mean they obviously need a quarterback but if you're drafting kenny pickett six and putting your whole life's work on kenny pickett if you're matt rule i don't know man that seems pretty risky so okay a tackle trayvon walker to the giants at number seven seems fair enough yeah that the league like you said is exploded in love for him derrick stingley jr to the falcons who need a quarterback but also don't

have to rush on a quarterback i mean they could wait they could just tank with marcus mariotta where they need so many things that you might as well just get bodies look for you know aj terrell derrick stingley okay uh do you have a take on that who cares about the falcons right no yeah i mean i think that makes sense but yeah they're definitely rebuilding they're not going to be a player this year uh charles cross to seattle you think seattle takes a quarterback i could see that being malik willis i for all the reasons that you mentioned like you don't want to tie your horse to Kenny Pickett if you're the Panthers necessarily it feels like also they wouldn't want to pick Malik Willis because they

don't want to wait they want maybe trade for Baker Mayfield or Jimmy Garoppolo after the draft but the Seahawks feel like that kind of quirky team that could pick Malik Willis and be like guess what kid you're starting week one. Like I could see that happening. Did I, I don't know if I mentioned this to you or on the show, but the funniest headline I've ever seen is that Baker Mayfield and the Panthers have mutual disinterest. Yes.

I saw that. I've never seen that before in my life. That is the funniest. Hey, you're, you might, it's way better than what you have now. Baker Mayfield.

He had a good year, like two years ago. I mean, anyway, Garrett Wilson to the jets. That makes a ton of sense. Zach Wilson just needs more people to throw to and got to find out if he can play. And then Malik will is to the commanders of Washington. So, I mean, makes a ton of sense to me that they would want Malik Willis. And so that leaves all the other quarterbacks on the board and lots of options for the Vikings.

We did a sim the other day where I took George Karlaftis. You got Drake London is on the board. Jamison Williams. I'd love a take on Jamison Williams. What do you think of him? I'm a big fan. He's my number two wide receiver in this class. But again, if the vikings are

trying to what are they doing a rebuild competitive rebuild competitive rebuild so you just pick a side with whatever you do in the draft you say no no that's the rebuild side if you pick jameson williams if you pick a corner you're like that's the competitive smart it's smart from a pr standpoint by this new vikings regime so you got to you know give them an a plus for their their pr early on um what i was going to say is instead of just saying like who i think they they could draft i'm literally looking at my scouting grade book big board right now and uh drake london would be the highest player left right after him uh andrew booth i'm a lot higher on than most and jameson will Williams. So we were talking about pro days not mattering, but if Drake London runs like 4'7 and is just like not a top 12 overall talent,

then maybe he wouldn't go there. But I would love Drake London and Jamison Williams if you're wanting to stretch the field with Kirk Cousins, who is ironically one of the better deep ball passers in the league despite not having a big arm. And that could be, I think we talked about it last episode you have justin jefferson the tail end of adam thielen's career by november jamison williams can be on the field and then kind of slowly even in season take over for adam thielen uh down the stretch as i think the vikings are going to be trying to push for the playoffs i I like it. I have been very much on the wide receiver train. Can I ask you though,

real quick about Devante Wyatt? Because when I was watching Georgia, just in football games, he was the guy that stood out to me the most. Oh yeah. He's he, I have him graded a lot higher than Jordan Davis. I have him in the early second, though. I don't know how crazy of an athlete he is, but if you want a traditional three technique, first step quickness is pretty good, pass rushing moves are there, decent power. He's just across the board a solid player.

There wasn't one area of his game you know that i mentioned earlier with edge rushers you got to be bendy got to have pass rushing moves davante wyatt just is good he's like i would say you know an eight out of ten in all those categories if they wanted to you know get more pass rushing juice there i would technically call it a little bit of a reach but he has a very very high floor much higher much higher floor, in my opinion, than his teammate Jordan Davis. So we'll go Drake London here and then move on to the second round where you're going to have a little more detail on some of these players than me. So everybody is taking who's doing draft Sims, Jalen Petrie from Baylor. Just when people send me their draft Sims, which I always appreciate and thank you for,

that's a guy that they're always taking Leo Chanel, who we talked about earlier. Uh, Nick Benito is here on the draft board. Just looking for positions that the Vikings might need. Uh, Kingsley and, and Igbari is how it's been.

Yep. Uh, Drake Jackson. Let's see. Just scrolling down to Cameron Thomas from San Diego state, man. If you grinded his tape you deserve credit um so we have wait who are the corners that are available again

all right let me look it's not popping up with corners being a top position so let me see what we got here oh jalen petrie uh martin emerson marcus jones who I took in a draft sim the other day, Zion McCollum, Cordell Flott. That's a great one. Taking him at some point. Okay. I would say, and you're going to laugh at this because we've talked about this a lot. If there is a player that the Vikings, I know it's a different regime, they want to roll the dice again and blow into their hands first.

Don't do it. Come on, Danelle Hunter. Don't go lanky defensive end if you do it i will shut this off it's not it if it is it would be and it's not the biggest need uh drake jackson from usc is a really intriguing guy jaylen petrie do they need a slot defender because that's really what he is more so than a safety he's like a truly a corner. That's super duper twitchy and like a blitzer off the end. He's not really like an outside corner. At least a Drake Jackson.

Well, I think, I mean, yes, they do need a nickel corner. They have Shandon Sullivan there right now, who's I don't really think as much of a starter long-term, but Drake Jackson at least got sacks.

So if you're looking for what to call the next Daniil, it's someone who's lanky, had good relative athletic scores, and sacked nobody in college. Okay. So Drake London's not perfectly that tight. It's the funniest thing, though. Like, no, what we figured out is that you don't sack people. That's like, no, that was just Daniil.

It was a weird thing, okay? Actually, on the pff podcast they they went into depth about this and kind of like poked fun at the vikings for just saying like let's just draft everyone that had no sacks and it was like kind of tall and lanky and it never really worked for like four or five years they have followed me on twitter for long enough they know this yeah i would say i would but i like the dra. Yeah. Either Drake Jackson or Jalen Petrie. You decide it's your podcast. Drake Jackson.

I mean, that's not the biggest need after signing Zedaria Smith and getting Danelle Hunter back. But Drake Jackson was, I believe like he was a five-star recruit, maybe like the top, the end recruit in the country a couple of years ago. And he definitely has the burst and the bend around the corner. The pass rushing moves are a little bit behind, but what's weird about him, and just to keep this nugget in case the Vikings do draft him, he looked super skinny on film.

Before the combine, someone, I think in the USC area, a local writer said, Drake Jackson's not skinny anymore. He's in the 270s, and everyone's like, I tweeted, I was like, 270s? He measured skinny anymore he's in the 270s and everyone's like i tweeted i was like 270s he measured in at the combine in like the 250s i'm like what the hell was that but then at the usc pro day which was like only a couple weeks later he was literally like 272 i was like how did he gain 20 i didn't did not understand what happened so drake or drake jackson to go drake london and drake jackson i think would make a lot of sense um but drake jackson is very intriguing because didn't quite live up to being a five-star recruit but you definitely see the five-star recruit skills and traits there and

and like you mentioned he pressured the quarterback and sacked the quarterback in college that would be you know the drake london would be the competitive side of this new philosophy. And the Drake Jackson would be, hey, we have our guys, but we are rebuilding. So this guy's going to be our future Donnell Hunter in 2023 and beyond. The Drake's only drafts him. I don't think there's any other Drake's. Also, I was going to comment that you and I being from Buffalo know how fast you can gain 20 pounds with the right food so just throw that out there uh okay so third round we'll just go through the third and um is there a particular position that you think they

should look at here corner is to me in round three just how i have them graded i think there's a lot of good corners that will be available let's see who who's available. We got Marcus Jones intrigues me from Houston. Kind of some of the guys that I brought up before. Zion McCollum, Cordell Flott, Cam Taylor Britt, I think is an interesting player. Josh, maybe it's Joby. Or if it's just Job, then that's hilarious because of Arrested Development. Yes.

No, there is not a real player in the draft named kobe bryant with yes there is named named after kobe bryant spelled differently but apparently he was named after kobe stop okay from those players i want like if i was uh quesi adolfo mensa i would go want to go corner here i know teams like to say we don't draft for need yes you do uh looks like i'm reaching though doesn't it am i reaching i mean based on probably the pff board a little zion mccullum if you're an outside corner guy at this point cam taylor brit super explosive really chippy player i think he would really uh benefit a lot from learning under pat Peterson because he's just a really, really good player already and has upside. Marcus Jones and there was one other – can you name them again?

There was one other slot corner. Oh, Cordell Flott. Cordell Flott from LSU. He's really lanky. He's like 6'1", 175 or 180, which is a weird body type. But he's super twitchy. He is very explosive. So any one of those corners, really, they would have kind of the pick of the litter.

Those three or four I really, really like a lot. The thing about Marcus Jones is that he's tiny. He is little. Playmaker, but I feel like he's like 5'7", 5'8", 170. He's a little dude on film, short, short arms, but a playmaker but i feel like he's like five seven five eight 170 he's a little dude on film short short arms but a playmaker so they could go edge wide receiver and there will still be good corners available in the third round most likely okay just real quick uh if they drafted cordell flott we would call him the flott corner instead of the slot corner absolutely but i'm not picking him i'm picking cam taylor brit yes although we have seen you have seen growing up watching anton winfield people did here sometimes the short corner could be pretty good just saying uh okay so we'll see pff's

going to give us an f minus for drafting mostly drakes mostly drakes is my alternative band um so they gave us a d for the pick of cam taylor brit well sorry pff mock thing but uh both drakes got good grades overall we got a b plus and i think if the vikings came away with two defensive players for the future and who could provide immediate depth and a receiver right away who could eventually take over for Adam Thielen and play a number two role to Justin Jefferson. I think that's a really good draft for the Vikings, assuming that they only have three picks in the first three rounds and there aren't trades. So one last thing that I want to say to, to defend my Cam Taylor Britt, um, we've been talking about pro days.

Do they matter? Do they not? Maybe some of your listeners are like, i think pro days matter cam taylor brit ran 438 at the combine uh and had a three cone under seven seconds and maybe i don't know if you said earlier three cone doesn't matter for corners he just looks like a high caliber athlete that checks out to those figures on film the recovery skill is there he's a great tackler too i don't know how much this new coaching staff cares about that and i usually don't factor it in too much but on the outside whether it be a pitch play a screen or he notices a shallow cross plants drives on the football you

don't see him miss a lot of tackles kind of just feels like a high floor player that also has upside because of the explosiveness to his game all right here's what we're going to do for our next show we'll have some sort of really deep emotional draft discussion as we always do but at the end remind me of this i'm going to take every player from the seventh round of the pff draft sim and see if you could tell me where they're from or how tall they are or just anything about them from the seventh. Okay. I'll try to be fully prepared. I'm probably pretty close, but I'm still watching like, you know, guy 300 to three 50 at this point,

trying to be prepared because I want to know like every player during the draft, I'm doing the live draft tracker for CBS sports this year again. Oh, awesome. And it's, yeah, it's like my favorite endeavor of the season,

but it's like scary getting into the sixth and seventh round. Like last year, even the Cowboys picked Nishan, right. A corner from Oregon state in the third round. And like, no one knew who he was. So that's always,

that's like the nightmare that you want to avoid. So I'm like watching like God, like guards from Mercer and whatever, any film I can get my hand on. So yes, that'll be a fun exercise next week. Awesome. Let's do it. Okay. Chris Trapasso at Chris Trapasso on Twitter and CBS sports.com is where you can read all of his draft coverage. We will do it again soon. Football.