Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - CBS Sports Draft analyst Chris Trapasso talks about draft strategies the Vikings can borrow from Eagles, Chiefs

Episode Date: February 9, 2023

CBS Sports draft analyst Chris Trapasso joins Matthew Coller to compare the Eagles and Chiefs' draft strategies to the Vikings in recent years. What's similar, what's different, what could the Vikings take away from the two Super Bowl finalists? Plus, how will Brian Flores' hire impact the draft? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello and welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. It is the Chris Trapasso Draft Show. Matthew Collar and Chris Trapasso from CBS Sports. We had a Senior Bowl. We've got a Super Bowl. What is going on, Chris? A great time to be alive. It is. I mean, it's for me, I'm already like peeking ahead. And when I say peeking ahead, I think I mean, I'm full glaring at the 2023 draft, but it's nice to like get the Superbowl and then everyone is in free agency and draft mode.

And suddenly people want to read my work a lot more than they were maybe a couple months ago, especially what I hope is my expertise, my specialty, the NFL draft. So yes, it is a great time, even though it's February and February is probably the worst month of the year. If you step away from football to me and probably to you and your listeners, it's actually a great time on the calendar. Yeah, no, I mean, because there's all the speculation and then things start to trickle in about what's going to happen. As far as free agency goes, we all start to trickle in about what's going to happen as far as free agency goes. We all start to adjust draft boards as stuff actually happens. And before we dive deeper into all of this and

look at the two teams who are in the Super Bowl, how they drafted, how that compares to the Minnesota Vikings, let's first play your intro. Good evening and welcome to the nfl draft draft season is here come on come on there you go to break down every need they're not gonna pick a quarterback they need offensive lineman they need defense every pro day he had a phenomenal pro day explosive really good in the three cone the broad jump and every mock you could probably tell me if you think the vikings would actually do it i can tell you as a draft analyst that they absolutely should welcome to the chris trapasso draft show was back and said this is a good podcast to listen to leading into the draft

i think i made fun of i mean it's great that it's in the intro and i'm not bashing the guy that created it but it's like such a funny just like bland like it is your birthday Dwight Schrute-esque comment to have at the end that I actually said that it's like I was making fun of myself I think last year loved it when I first heard it I think it's the best intro in football podcasting world but to end with that sentence that I actually said it's kind of funny that's that's the perfect comparison this is a draft podcast with football says chris trabasso yeah it's really well why don't why don't we begin with this because i think that what the whole world does and maybe rightfully so when we get to the super bowl is they spend a week looking at the teams in the

Super Bowl and go, how'd you get there? And through drafting is a big answer for both of these teams. And the Vikings cannot help but look at the Philadelphia Eagles as a team that maybe they could have been. When you look at the crossroads both teams went to in 2020, and the Vikings traded a second-round pick for Yannick Ngakwe, extended everybody, including Kirk Cousins, whereas the Philadelphia Eagles decided to ultimately move on after that from Carson Wentz. They drafted Jalen Hurts, and they go forward. But when you look at the overall drafting of the Philadelphia Eagles,

maybe we could start just broadly. There's more to it than just drafting Jalen Hurts. That of the Philadelphia Eagles. Maybe we could start just broadly. There's more to it than just drafting Jalen Hurts. That's the big bang. But they've hit on many players that are playing big roles for them. Not all players, but many players. Miles Sanders, Devontae Smith, Landon Dickerson, Milton Williams is a part of this. Jordan Davis is a part of this. Is there something that stands out to you

about how Philadelphia has approached the draft kind of in the broad sense? Two things. And they are two, ironically, ties into what we discuss a lot on this podcast right before the draft. I think Howie Roseman and the entire scouting staff in Philadelphia over the last, let's say five to seven years, it's really built up the core of this team. I mean, throw Brandon Graham, Fletcher Cox in there too, that are a little older. They identify the, or they have identified and drafted based on positional value very well. And I think they've also done a great job, not always, but usually prioritizing those positions of importance with big time athletes. And I know the Vikings have kind of wandered into that water a little bit, but I think when you do that in general,

you're probably going to be overall over the long term good at drafting. And certainly you look at 2018 draft with Josh Schwett and Jordan Malata for the Eagles, two key pieces up front. They always build in the trenches or constantly picking offensive linemen and big and athletic ones as well. And then to what you were hinting at in 2020, Carson Wentz had just signed a contract extension with that team. He got injured in that playoff game against the Seahawks, had a good season in 2019. But then Jalen Hurts, a quarterback, was sitting there,

and they're like, hey, he's a pretty athletic quarterback. We don't have a ton of other needs. Instead of picking a running back here that can maybe make our run game better or going in a different direction, it is the most important position on the field. And really, in 2019 or in 2020 when that happened, I didn't love the pick. I don't really think anyone liked the pick because you have your quarterback, you just extended him. It wasn't a market setting contract extension, but no one really could foresee that Carson Wentz was going to fall off a cliff in 2020. And then sure enough, that happened. And then they were able to kind of let Jalen Hurts develop

slowly, which is what he needed. But that's again, sticking with those tenants of let's understand what the most important positions are on the field, picking wide receivers, acquiring wide receivers, drafting in the trenches. And then, hey, if there's a quarterback there that we like, even if we have our quarterback, we're going to pick one just in case. Because in today's NFL, I mean, we saw a record number of starters play at the quarterback position. I think 65 of them played this year or started a game. That's what I think with the Eagles, they have done a really good job with and stayed dedicated to those two main philosophies. And now there's this, I don't want to say super

team, but when you look at the roster, there's not a lot of holes and that's how they've been so good. Even last season when they stuck into the playoffs and certainly this year getting to the super bowl okay i'm gonna point out that i loved the pick at the time just well just be just because here here was my thought process at the time when they picked jalen hurts carson wentz was about to get expensive and had two back-to-back seasons that were average and nobody knows better than this guy what happens when you have an average quarterback that costs a lot of money. So I had been campaigning for the Vikings to take Jalen Hurts at the time.

And again, that doesn't mean I'm right about the draft all the time. We always have to make sure that we point that out, that we're both wrong a lot. Wyatt Davis was my favorite pick of the 2021 draft. So whoops. But, you know, I think that it made sense to me on the level that if you hit on a quarterback, when you have an average starter who's about to become expensive, then, you know, you've got that big move to the rookie quarterback contract, and then you can do all sorts of crazy things. But you make the right point that it isn't just Jalen Hurts who did this now he opened the door for them to do a lot of things

to bring in Javon Hargrave and to bring in you know lots of players even Linval Joseph and Ndamukong Su late in the season like they really stacked up this roster but there are so many hits in their recent drafts that have helped them that aren't just those guys. And I think that the one pick that I would focus on as being very, very smart aside from Jalen Hurts, which look, I mean, if you go back and look at the second round quarterbacks, other than Jalen Hurts over the last 10 years, it's not amazing. It really isn't. It's not an incredible group. Like there's Derek Carr and Jimmy Garoppolo, but then there's a lot of like Pat White or whatever mixed in. He could

have been Pat White. I just thought the process made sense, but here's where the process made even more sense to me than that was Devante Smith. First, there was the criticism that Devante Smith was a little too skinny, which I don't know. I mean, you, if you watched him in college, the dude caught everything was an amazing route runner. He's just a ball player. So I was never concerned about that. But they had just drafted Jalen Rager a couple of years ago, and they did not worry about the sunk cost of having spent a first round pick only what, one draft before a first round pick on a wide receiver. They did not worry about that. They didn't try to delude themselves into thinking like, well, you know, maybe he could develop. And so, no, they were like, this guy can't do it. As we saw in Minnesota this year, he's not a wide

receiver. And they went back to that. Well, understanding that there's nobody who's going to help you more than having a top wide receiver like Devante Smith. And I think it would have been easy for them to say, well, you know, maybe we'll see if this guy comes along, but they said, nope, this is going to be super, super important, no matter who is playing quarterback because they had lost Elshon Jeffrey go back a little way. Like Torrey Smith was a short-term solution for them. And they had Greg Ward as their top wide receiver. They needed to find their guy. And it turns out he's more of a one B or a, or a number two wide receiver, but such a huge part of that offense all the way through this season and into the playoffs.

Yeah. And I think what's perfect about that, that ties everything back together is you said you were sometimes wrong about draft stuff. I certainly am wrong a lot, but to tie it into the Eagles, I think they understand that. And that's why it's so important. Like you said, to have the correct process to just say, look, we missed on a receiver. We're not going to let that scare us off and say, Oh, we're not, we're going to stay away from first round wide receivers. Now we have a bad taste in our mouth. We're we're, we're scared about there. They knew that wide receiver was super important. They've missed on quarterbacks. They missed on JJ Arcega-Whiteside in the second round. They said, we're going to pick wide receiver. We know it's

important. They missed on Andre Dillard. They weren't afraid to keep going back to the well. Look at their last couple of picks. Jordan Davis, D tackle, Cam Juergens, offensive lineman, Devante Smith, wide receiver, Landon Dickerson, Milton Williams, offensive lineman, defensive lineman. Jalen Rager, wide receiver, quarterback. The draft before, Andre Dillard, offensive lineman. They are prioritizing the most important picks in the draft. Now, I do think that their scouting department has done a good job finding some of those later round picks but to identify and to just acknowledge and say look we are going to miss some of these players at every position

but let's understand what the most important positions are pick those earlier and even if we have a miss just go back to it is I think really another key to what the Eagles have ultimately done to get this again, loaded team that they have here. That's a favorite in the Superbowl. Yeah. I think it's interesting too. When you look at the non-premium positions that they usually take them in the

second and third rounds that it's Landon Dickerson, who is a center coming out, obviously Cam Juergens, who is not part of the offensive line, but someday will be a big, huge part of the offensive line but someday will be a big huge part of that offensive line uh looking down the road a little bit maybe is a smart decision there but you know second round being miles sanders a running back where you would kind of go like oh i don't know is that a running back too high and dallas goddard in 2018 now i'm not

completely overly praising taking non-premium positions even in the second round like running back because though I like Miles Sanders a lot it probably could have been anybody and Miles Sanders is just the guy who is lucky enough to play with this offense with an incredible offensive line and running backs have more success when they are playing with a running quarterback that's been shown by some studies that have been done of Carolina with Cam or with Lamar Jackson and so that's probably a pick that even though it's a hit I might have gone a different direction but it is interesting and I think it fits in their philosophy and then you also see some guys that are maybe higher ceiling

but a little more risky at the premium positions being taken in the middle. So corners or edge rushers being taken in the third and fourth. And I think that that's like an interesting philosophy, because if you take a late first round pass rusher, usually he's just athletic enough to be a first rounder, but also has just enough flaws to have a high bust rate. And it seems like that end of the first round has a lot of those guys. And then in the third and fourth, you're usually taking a big swing for upside. And I think you can kind of see that year after year that that fits into what they want to do.

Yeah. The one thing I think stands out is that, and this is like a known thing in the draft world that that Howie Roseman is like anti-linebacker. I think there's some, I mean, we could scroll back here on draft history, that like they haven't picked a linebacker in the first round. I want to say since the 80s, if that's right. And like Howie Roseman obviously hasn't been there since then. But he always picks them like third round or later.

They usually have good linebacker play. I think they've done a good job on the undrafted free agent market. Like TJ Edwards. I remember scouting him at Wisconsin and was like, he was one of those kind of Devante Smith types where he didn't look the part physically or athletically. He's kind of this old school bulky linebacker, but like for four years at Wisconsin was somehow always around the football,

even making plays in coverage as a blitzer. They've brought in a lot of players. I feel like that I've had like draft crushes on where I'm like, this guy should go in the fifth and then he's undrafted and they pick them up. So I just think Howie Roseman has done a good job identifying later in the draft and having a good mix of those high upside, maybe low floor flyers, and then also obviously piecing together later just, hey,

this is a good football player. Reed Blankenship, that third safety for them right now that's a rookie at Middle Tennessee State, got injured a bunch in college, but played like five years and had a ton of interceptions. They've added those pieces at some of those non-premium positions but usually up front they've been so big even from the Jim Schwartz coordinator days of just being really good defensive line and it feels like their offensive line has been good for so long you look back usually that's where they're heading in the first couple of rounds so I think if you want to be that recency bias and look at the one or two

characteristics of a team in the Super Bowl, and I think we take away something, or at least NFL media at large does after every Super Bowl, it's that. It's prioritizing the trenches and certainly quarterback from what Howie Roseman has done with kind of two rebuilds and two roster constructions, the Carson Wentz era and now the Jalen Hurts era in Philly. I mean, always in forever in football, the trenches, although, you know, it's funny because like, I don't, I don't want to say that the Eagles have done all these things, right. And the Vikings have done none of them because I want to tie some things that

the Vikings have done with Philly and like kind of here's some similarities and here's maybe some differences. It is interesting to me when I look over their list that there's very few that I can remember them reaching on. And even with someone like Jalen Hurts, there were people that thought that Jalen Hurts was a first round draft pick, like a late first round, and they got extremely good value. I mean, you could just argue from a value situation that they did very well there. Even Devontae Smith that people thought, you know, maybe he'll go in the top five and he ends up to 10. Like that's a really good value. And I think they traded up for him, but still got a good value

versus where maybe some people had them on the draft boards. They usually do pretty well with that. And that's like the non-premium position guys, Dallas Goddard, let's say you're the best or second best tight end on the list for that particular year. And they're getting him in the second round, one of the best positions or players at his position. I think that's something that the Vikings maybe missed on in some spots last year with taking the guard that they did. You know, the other ones probably weren't too bad. I think they aimed for that with Andrew Booth Jr., but we've talked about the injury issues there uh where i think that they've just been excellent is the trading and going back and getting a first round pick to trade down with new orleans and then the trade with miami trading back and then getting an additional first round pick and then i think

they use that to swing it for aj Brown, right? If I'm tying all the trades together, I mean that, that right there is some excellent usage of the draft capital that you had in making your trades. Yeah. And that's a point that you mentioned earlier about sunk cost and not feeling like, Hey, we need to just keep trying Jalen Rager. We need to keep rolling Carson Wentz out there because we gave him a big extension. I mean, we all know, I think your listeners are smart enough to know that the big contracts and, oh, you can't trade that guy. He just got to, yes, you can. You can trade anybody.

And I think that's another thing that Howie Roseman has, again, he understands he is going to miss. And if he misses on someone, he's going to send them to another team, the Vikings in Jalen Rager. He's going to trade away Carson Wentz, someone that still has some perceived value. I think that is key. And maybe that is not just a GM. Maybe coaches want to cling to these players and say, I can develop them. I can develop them in year three, year four, year five. But that is certainly something that's a great point that Howie Roseman has said, look, this guy's not working out for us.

We're going to just keep moving forward with the cheaper talent and trying to get a lot more or just any value from those players instead of just ultimately cutting them or just playing them and not getting those results. I think I just saw, I think yesterday on Twitter about a story about that Howie Roseman used to have the label as like just the cap guy, and he was doing a lot of these type of deals with other teams. So he has a lot of good connections around the league. I mean, I certainly think a lot of GMs know each other. It's a pretty tight-knit network. But he was, like, ready to make trades.

So, like, the draft side, we're talking about just Howie Roseman. I think certainly the entire Eagle scouting department, directors of college scouting, assistant GMs all deserve credit too. But I think he was almost ready to go. Like, hey, look, if we need to make trades, I'm going to figure out what makes sense for us and get those extra picks back. So just looking ahead, they have two first round picks again, or the Saints pick, like you mentioned, that's huge coming off a Super Bowl. A lot of teams don't have that.

So certainly that is another part. If you aren't getting good play out of a second or a third round pick, or even a first rounder, if you can find someone around the league, just pull the trigger because whatever those deals are, the contracts contracts whatever extension that you've given them you can certainly trade that player and just move forward with a lot less expensive option I mean that's a point about the Carson Wentz thing and drafting Jalen Hurts that if they had always sort of plans to trade Carson Wentz because now what we've learned about Carson Wentz's personality they knew behind the scenes that he does not gel particularly well with people and they ended up trading him for a first round draft pick if you think about that like would you draft Jalen Hurts and get a first to give away Carson Wentz at that time after two middling

seasons I think if we looked at it from the that broader perspective which is I think part of what the Eagles have done well is everything sort of interlocks like there's always when you look at the draft picks you can always connect it to here's the reasoning here's the bigger perspective here's where this fit in and I think that and I don't just want to evaluate this against what Quacey did last year because it's such a small sample size, but I think where the Vikings made their biggest mistakes was always just trying to draft a guy that they needed. Their draft philosophy was what position do we need? We're going to draft him. And heck that worked out great with Christian Derrissaw and Justin Jefferson because those were needs, but not so great with Irv Smith Jr., not so great with Garrett

Bradbury. I mean, even drafting two corners in 2020, hoping that they could both just step in and play. I mean, things like that, I think really hurt them. And it's hard to say, oh, this team is so genius and this team is a bunch of silly gooses because a lot of it is just when it comes down to, did you get lucky and did you hit? But I think managing your draft capital is probably the biggest thing that you can control. And if we compare the trade by the Vikings last year to the trades that Philadelphia has made, I think we could say that the Vikings trade down with Detroit was pretty far inferior. And even their trade down with Green Bay was maybe

a little better by the draft charts. But I'm not even sure that giving Green Bay a potentially elite wide receiver with his physical tools was a great idea. I mean, I just think that the managing of the draft capital is something that Kweisi can continue to improve and look at this. On the Kansas City side, what can we say about the Kansas City side because their last draft to me was pretty amazing for them yeah you know they were supposed to be a reset year and now all these guys are making a difference but I think it comes back to that premium position conversation again like taking someone like George Karlaftis who were you were you one of the people that were high on George Karlaftis or were you kind of middling where they picked him at 30 that's around where i had him i i didn't

love him but i didn't hate him either i thought he was like fringe first early second rounder okay that makes sense but i mean that's a guy right there who they take at the back end of the first round as an edge rusher they take a corner who could play right away. That was probably well, like well thought of, or even more well thought of by some who analyzed the draft in Trent McDuffie and Sky Moore, a wide receiver, a defensive back after that, like late in the, in the draft, they're taking, you know, tackle defensive back. I mean, just all premium positions. Basically they took one running back who's turned out to be very good in the seventh round. And there's one linebacker thrown in in the fourth round or something.

Or was it third? I mean, that's yeah, third round. So like they really went hard on those positions. And this is where I think with the Vikings, they have to look at last year and say, if we missed somewhere, it's there. Because even if Brian Asamoah becomes good, the bar is really high. He's got to become great. Or even if Ed Ingram becomes good, the bar, again, is really high

if you're in need of defensive backs, in need of a future wide receiver, in need of things that usually drive success, and then you're kind of taking these other positions. I think Kansas city did a really good job with that. Yeah. One last thing that I want to say about the Eagles before fully diving in here, what I will say that, yeah, like I don't agree or I agree with you that the Vikings didn't get the same amount of value in their trade backs as, as what the Eagles have gotten. But I don't know if this new regime

has like copied the eagles or just coincidence but when you look at what the eagles did with like jordan davis when they already have pieces up front on the defensive line on the interior like you mentioned i loved cam jurgens i think i don't i'm not going to say he's the next jason kelsey but that type of athlete at the center spot not even playing this season as a second rounder. Devontae Smith, when they had other receivers, Landon Dickerson, to just keep filling in. They draft Dallas Goddard when they had Zach Ertz to draft. And I think we talked about it last week to draft Andrew Booth and Lewis

when you have Harrison Smith, when you have Patrick Peterson, where Andrew Booth and Louis seen weren't big parts of this Vikings team at all. And they won a bunch of games and they hosted a playoff game. I think kind of having those built-in red shirt seasons, even though today we do like to see the instant superstars like Justin Jefferson to also acknowledge that those guys are pretty rare. They're outliers. And to then say, all right, Andrew Booth, year two, now we're going to rely upon you. You've been through two seasons of strength and conditioning programs or off seasons. You're healthy now.

Same with Louisine. You're off of your injury. You've learned in practice. You've spent time in an NFL film room. I think that's what the Eagles have done with a lot of their picks throughout the last five to seven years, where they're like drafting for that player's second season behind a veteran, especially early with those early premium position selections.

That's what we saw Kweisi do with, I think, at least those first two picks last year. So I just wanted to wrap that up with the Eagles, because that's one thing I think if you want to copy the blueprint, that's something that we saw early from the Vikings in last year's draft. No, I think that's a good point because really you should be drafting for two years out, not for that year. When you draft for that year, that's when you get desperate and you hope and pray.

That's what you were saying for need, yeah. Right. Then you've got to throw guys in desperately to those situations. And even with Andrew Booth Jr. and Caleb Evans, two picks that I way but for the other ones they were looking down the road the guard position was one where they definitely drafted for desperate need they brought in two guys that weren't real competition for ed ingram like they wanted to have that be a hit right away and it was not and we'll see where it goes in the future but that's just a good example of like oh we're out of cap space and we need a guard so second round guard like no

no no not when you have so many other future issues that you have to resolve that are two years down the road that's why i was banging the wide receiver drum because like who could have seen it coming that we'd be talking about adam thielen potentially having his last season as a viking oh everyone like i mean everyone knows that when a wide receiver gets past like 32, I mean, even Anquan Boldin, Larry Fitzgerald, like everyone slows down eventually in their 30s and you see some of the production start to go down. So they weren't really looking with that type of pick two years down the road.

I think that is an important lesson for all general managers is like, if you're trying to desperately fill that spot to win games now, you should probably just do that in free agency. Yeah. And I think the distinction here, which certainly I think the Vikings fall into this category, of course, you can plan ahead with your draft picks and say, Hey, we're not going to lean on them early in their rookie seasons. If you're already a good team, which the Vikings have been either right on the cusp of the playoffs or in the playoffs. So they are in that position where they can pick an Andrew Booth and say, hey, you're kind of banged up. If we don't have to lean on you right away, that's fine. Louis seen if you happen to get injured, which you did obviously super early.

That's OK, too. So I think it's easy for us to say that if this was a different podcast about a different team, it would be like, well, yeah, you got to play some of the rookies you're rebuilding. About the Chiefs, just to jump back to them, I think in general what Brett Veach has done, he hasn't hit on a ton of these extra picks besides this season. Leading into this year, it was a lot of like, hey, this is an integral draft for him, especially after trading Tyree kill. But the last couple of drafts weren't great. I think the overarching philosophy with Kansas city, and it's kind of what I said about the Eagles, they draft someone with elite measurables,

elite speed, especially those flyers. They're not really picking a lot of those. Hey, he's a good ball player, but he's too slow to like later in the draft they're picking six two corners with 33 inch arms that run four five they're picking running backs like Isaiah Pacheco that were productive and also ran four three four three seven four three eight um Trey Smith the offensive lineman who's been such a great get for them in the sixth round who go back and look at old mock drafts. He was like a fixture in the first round, had some blood clot issues, fell all the way to the sixth, maybe some weight issues as well. He's been such a good player for them, especially with how cheap he is.

So they're like very willing to roll the dice on riskier guys that have something, that have, again, elite physical talent or just athleticism or measurables. And it hadn't really worked out the last couple of drafts. But with this one, with the two corners they picked, Joshua Williams and Jalen Watson, they're almost identical players. They're 6'2", with long arms. They ran fast. Pacheco, I already mentioned, they really have prioritized athleticism and measurables in their draft and said, hey, look, we're going to miss on some guys,

but if we ultimately can't develop them, at least they can be decent niche players with Patrick Mahomes kind of running the show. And looking at the Vikings draft last year, I thought that they leaned much more into those measurables than uh the previous regime that was kind of all over the place where some guys you'd be like wow what an athletic freak on paper and then others like okay this is a if we're going back to the relative it's relative athletic score season uh if we're going back to relative athletic score season you know they would be drafting guys in the 50 percentile 40 percentile that i don't think this group is really going to spend time on because i'm always like why are you

doing that i i know you're a big ras guy i am too whenever i see it happen like in the fifth sixth and seventh round and me watching the film i'm always like okay like i could get a bad observation from watching film but like you can tell if a guy's not that good of a football player, like, oh, maybe he's just a great athlete. And then you see like a fifth rounder and he's like, you said in the fifth, like his RAS is like four and you're like, where, what is the thought process? Like that's where you, I mean, where you come in handy being at those post draft press conferences and being

like, what was the thought process here? So I didn't mean to cut you off, but I it's like a thing that kind of in a nerdy way drives me crazy, not just with the Vikings, but with a lot of teams, a guy that wasn't that productive looks kind of slow on film. Maybe he needs to improve a lot of his technique. And he's also a poor athlete.

It's like, where is your evidence that this guy could have any chance to be a good player even later in the draft and sometimes things happen regarding that that you just don't even know behind the scenes some guy who's a scout desperately has been banging the table for this person or somebody knows somebody that told them like oh you want to draft that guy or whatever it might be that stuff happens and it can be confusing sometimes but i've always thought if you're going to draft in the later rounds i mean take swings at athletes and hope that they develop over a couple of years rather than taking guys who you know like the upside is not super high i mean i remember I remember when they drafted Ben Gideon,

who turned out to be an okay player, but he was never going to be anything more than a base package linebacker. Like what? I mean, what, like, what's the point in taking someone like that in the fourth round where, I mean, you could get a UDFA base package linebacker. And this is something that I think Kansas city learned by the way, which they took in 2021, a linebacker and this is something that I think Kansas City learned by the way which they took in 2021 a linebacker and then a center with their first two picks and in 2020 a running back and a linebacker with their first two picks and those I mean even though Creed Humphrey has turned out to be a good player those are horrible selections I mean those are just terrible choices. There is no reason whatsoever when you're a team that's in that position to be drafting a linebacker or running back in the first round.

And I think they fell into the fallacy that we were talking about, like, oh, man, we need a linebacker, and we're spending a lot in free agency on X, Y, and Z, and they end up with that. And the Humphrey pick is not bad. I don't think that's a bad one. He was a good prospect, and that was the back end of the second round. the Humphrey pick is not bad. I don't think that's a bad one. He was a good prospect. And that was the back end of the second round.

So that's a pretty good value pick for someone with his talent. But taking a running back and linebacker in back-to-back seasons and then having to take receivers in this year's draft to fill for Tyree Kill, that's probably where they should have been taking receivers before and planning out in the future that they would have to take Tyreek Hill because Sky Moore has only been a little bit of a hit for them, but not a major hit. And I think they kind of wanted him to be the guy who fills right in, but you never know if he's going to fill in right away. So they did great with knowing when to trade a guy, getting the proper draft capital back, and that helps helps them a ton but I think that if we're looking at one of their mistakes it wasn't planning out enough with one of their most

important positions considering who their quarterback is yeah definitely and that's why I said earlier that up until this draft and one draft can change everything it can be a tank of a draft or it can be like what the Chiefs have just put together Brett Veach I don't want to say he was on the hot seat. That's not the case. But just checking around Twitter, a few Chiefs people that I know, they were like, hey, look, this team is really – it's going to be good with Patrick Mahomes and Andy Reid.

But look at the last couple drafts for Brett Veach, and I think it goes exactly to what you just mentioned, to go linebacker, linebacker. And Nick Bolton, he's another interesting guy. If you go down a rabbit hole into Chiefs Twitter, you'll hear during the Super Bowl that he has a ton of tackles and he's a great player. Chiefs Twitter does not like Nick Bolton.

And I remember scouting him, certainly, and thinking with him that he's not a great coverage linebacker at Missouri. It was like, he's small, he's got short arms. He's not great in coverage. He hits a lot of people. The, the athleticism wasn't off the charts. So I think Brett Veach kind of strayed from that. Hey, let's pick athletes. And certainly they haven't been in that we understand the premium positions and we're going to pick those early on so I think when we get to the Super Bowl it's easy to think these

teams have done nothing wrong they're perfect they're the best teams in the league but there are going to be mistakes along the way the Eagles you know gave Carson Wentz a big contract and ultimately had to trade him so I think it's important to just realize that there will be mistakes and that what I've come to realize, it's more about not saying, hey, draft the best player available. That's what every GM is going to say over the next couple months. It's truly what you and I just outlined and identified with the Eagles, draft the premium positions. They could have plugged in behind Chris Jones and some of the pieces they've added up up front on the defensive line. Other linebackers besides a second rounder that is really a two down linebacker who's a liability in coverage and had younger weapons for Patrick Mahomes and spent elsewhere instead of signing Juju Smith-Schuster or MVS and other pieces that they've had to spend money on.

So it's interesting that going into this year, Brett Veach was like not tracking well in terms of his drafts. And he was leaning on a lot of the John Dorsey picks with certainly Patrick Mahomes and Chris Jones and Travis Kelsey. But now he has a really good draft, you know three or four years into his time as a gm i also would like to add uh any defensive tackle who can penetrate and chase after the quarterback as a premium position i because i think that we think of defensive tackle not necessarily that way but a jordan davis who has that long-term potential i think to become a pass rusher even beat Avea who wasn't talked about that way but definitely got after the passer Dexter Lawrence from the middle Chris Jones is another guy like when you draft someone who can chase the quarterback Christian Barmore was one of my favorites from a few years ago after the national championship games like there aren't

that many defensive tackles who can rush the passer and when they do I've seen many of them get after Kirk Cousins including Dexter Lawrence in the playoffs and that was something that they really didn't draft a lot of either in recent years and that Clyde Edwards a layer pick might be one of the worst draft picks probably in the last three years to spend a first round draft pick on a running back in their position and now he's not even the starter or the second stringer. They got Jarek McKinnon off free agency and people are finding out that Jarek McKinnon is a good pass blocker and a nice playmaker out of the backfield.

It's like, they're always around folks. There's a reason we talk about this guy isn't different. So I guess with the Chiefs, it's a little less of, it's almost like they awoke you know it was almost like with philadelphia they've been kind of ahead of the curve for a few years and you could really plot it out where the chiefs finally went corner receiver like they just came out of the van yeah saw the lights when it came to that and i think this does connect us though um to the vikings a little bit because they hired Brian Flores.

And I'd love to get your take on Brian Flores and how that affects the draft because I think that that puts cornerback on the map big time because I just think when he played that aggressive, that much man-to-man, that high of a percentage of blitzing, that one of the reasons Miami's defense turned around quickly was Xavier Howard, Byron Jones, that you need these man corners. So would you agree with that, that that puts cornerback up toward the top of the list now that they hire Brian Flores? Yeah, absolutely. I mean,

being from Buffalo, I remember those games against the Dolphins for the Bills the last couple of years. And because of those two corners, because of how much they blitzed under Brian Flores, and they just said, Hey, look, try to beat these two long physical athletic corners. It made it very difficult. And I think it puts corners certainly at the top of the priority list or near the top. And not only that, a specific type that a corner that is going to have 32 inch arms or around that length and be able to match up with the bigger star wide receivers in the NFL. It's not going to be, you know, 5'10", 5'11". They're probably going to be six foot or bigger and spent a lot of time and flourished in a press man, presumably, or just a man cover scheme and role. So I think when you hire a defensive

coordinator with that distinct of a scheme that is going to need a certain position, some are big on just getting home with four. So you want to prioritize the defensive line. With Brian Flores, it's to me all about the cornerbacks. They've certainly invested in the position over the last couple drafts in the first couple of rounds. But to have at least one premier corner that's presumably younger, that still has a spring in his step, I think is vital for the Brian Flores defense to ultimately work the way he wants it. I totally agree. And I think that this kind of harkens back to what we were saying about the sunk cost also, because I don't know if a Caleb Evans or Andrew Booth Jr. is going to be good.

I just know that when a guy gets hurt multiple times, which both of them did, that a red flag goes up. And I think that Cam Dantzler could actually be a better fit in this defense than he was. In fact, maybe by leaps and bounds, playing man-to-man where his strength really exists. But I don't want to guarantee that. And that's where I think that taking another shot on another corner is always a good idea because of how important it is just in general, but also how important it's going to be with this system. And presumably, whoever Brian Flores brings in,

even if it is a one year thing for Flores and he's a head coach next year, he's going to bring in people that he wants to be potentially the next defensive coordinator to stay with that system. And in best case scenario, like you're going with the guys that Brian Flores is picking out. So I think that that's one. Don't say, oh, we drafted two corners last year. We can't do it again.

And I know Vikings fans are tired of them drafting corners. that's one don't say oh we drafted two corners last year we can't do it again and i know vikings fans are tired of them drafting corners uh another thing that does connect with brian floris is that it helped him build the miami dolphins defense because he had a lot of money to work with and this is where with the jalen hurts thing it's like to the vikings if there's a quarterback you want take the quarterback if your plan isn't long-term, take the quarterback. If the outside world says we don't really love that quarterback, take the quarterback because nobody really knows. And Jalen Hurts is proof of that. I think that that's another thing to try to look several years in the future. But for this team, they almost need

outside of offensive tackle, almost every premium position is necessary for this team down the road because even Zedarius Smith isn't going to play that much longer Daniil Hunter's a free agent after next season as we speak right now and the interior of the defensive line they have Harrison Phillips and nobody else except for Ross Blacklock so I mean that you could make an argument for a lot of different positions here. And I think defensive tackles should also be toward the top of the list when you consider what Christian Wilkins did for Miami. Yeah, absolutely. And I think what's funny is this kind of tying back to a thought that I've had grading all these players every year. I have my

scouting grade book that has what I call position addition in it. And I probably said it on this podcast, but a quick summary, it's just exactly what it sounds like that. I grade all quarterbacks, wide receivers, running backs, every position. And then I've assigned a bonus system. Obviously the highest goes to quarterbacks, receivers, edge rushers, offensive tackles are next. It kind of goes down the list. And I've always said that my big board is just a universal big board. Just like, I don't know, not necessarily if I was just starting a team, but it's just how I view the players. It's not realistic because the team, you know, every team is going to stack their boards based on their needs. I've really come full

circle on, especially for a team like the Vikings that you said, you know, for as good as they were this past season, how many wins they had hosting a playoff game that they do kind of have a fair amount of needs. I really have come full circle with, if you're in a team like the Vikings, you're not rebuilding, you're not right at the end where you need to tear it down. It really should not be, hey, let's stack our board and let's go best player available at our position of need. It should be draft the best player at the most important position. We don't care if we have Eric Hendricks at linebacker. We don't care if Danelle Hunter and Zedaria Smith are awesome edge rushers. If there's a good edge rusher there

and that's one of the probably three or four most important positions, pick it. Wide receiver, the same thing. So it's kind of funny that I always said my draft big board was never really close to being realistic because teams are doing it based on their needs. In today's NFL, with injuries, with free agency. I don't think you can ever say, Hey, we don't have a need at X position. And I mean, maybe outside of running back where I think you can just wait until like the fifth round or later to get someone, um, again, I'm probably repeating myself a lot, but pick the premium positions, because even if you think you're set, I mean, think about how many Vikings teams you thought in 2021 they're set here and then by the start of 2022 you're like oh they actually need more corners or they need another safety with injuries and all that I really think

it's vital to just pick in that philosophy and use that Eagles philosophy and say look we are just going to pick a quarterback here in the second round. If we're shocked that, I don't know, Hendon Hooker or whatever is available, let's say everyone loves him. They feel like he's a late first rounder by the end of the draft process and he's there in round two. You might say, hey, look, we're not going to say let's pick a linebacker because we

have kind of a need there or corner. Let's pick the most important position and go from there i think that is absolutely key in today in today's nfl with how much movement player movement there is and how much of a reliance there is on depth especially later in the season and into the playoffs uh this has been a very fun conversation we'll be doing it every week we're a few weeks away believe it or not from the nfl combine and maybe i'm thinking next week chris might be time for our first draft sim take a look at how the first round yeah it's time baby take a look at how the first round

might play out i'm very excited about that i'm deep enough i'm like final like in terms of finalized grades i'm i'm pretty deep into the hundreds, so I should be able to know. I mean, we don't have to go out seven rounds, but you can go round two if you want, maybe round three because I know the listeners love it. We love doing it. It's fun doing it live. It's fun getting a live reaction from myself where you get my facial expression here now on YouTube or just I'll gasp if it's a pick I absolutely hate or

love. So those are always fun. We can do those whenever you want. Yeah, I am excited about that. We got to pace ourselves. It's a long time to go before the draft. So we'll start out with first round and then we'll start working our way through it all the way to a complete draft sim at some point. So follow him on Twitter at Chris Trap trapasso cbssports.com tremendous draft analysis really enjoyed the conversation and we will do it again very soon thanks chris thanks matt