Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - CBS Sports draft analyst Chris Trapasso talks about what every QB has to prove at the NFL Combine

Episode Date: February 28, 2024

Matthew Coller and Chris Trapasso discuss the hiring of Josh McCown as the Vikings QB coach and then go through five QBs and what they need to show or questions they need to answer at the NFL Combine Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of purple insider matthew collar here and cbs sports draft analyst chris trapasso in indianapolis inside of the hampton inn so great great to see you chris i'm glad you made it out and we have huge breaking minnesota vikings news to discuss yeah you know sometimes i think that you know do the vikings really care about me? I don't know. Maybe they do. Maybe they don't. And then they go do something awesome to show me how much they like me by hiring Josh McCown. I mean, imagine a show, a podcast that has spent years obsessing over journeyman quarterbacks and one of the great journeyman quarterbacks ever, Josh McCown. They bring right here to Minnesota just for for me so thank you vikings for doing that but this actually does have real world implications because i'm mostly kidding

but i am really interested to get to know josh mccown with all of his experience but he has some connections and he is going to be the quarterback coach, which means actually moving their current quarterback coach, Chris O'Hara, to a different role, which I also thought was quite interesting. So give me your takeaway, and there is a connection here to someone in the draft that may be notable, but takeaway of the Vikings hiring a different quarterback coach with a quarterback decision on the horizon.

It is par for the course for the Vikings that their head coach is a former big, strong arm quarterback. They bring in Josh McCown, who's played on like 50 teams. And quick note, by the way, the Vikings always make big moves. Like right when we're about to record a podcast, they just like love purple insider. They want you to have something fresh to talk about. So that's just again, par for the course in that sense too.

Thank you. The connection that we have to talk about. So that's just, again, par for the course in that sense too. Thank you. The connection that we have to talk about that we're going to talk about it a lot over the next couple of months. Josh McCown in 2019, he was just fresh out of the league and he was a high school football coach in Charlotte. His quarterback was Drake May. And I think it's telling and funny that we're at the combine where there's so much networking connections are real. These new coaches, position coaches, assistants, coordinators are all kind of getting a feel of their new city, new team, new coaching staff around them. And now there's this connection that is just staring a square in the face. The Vikings have kind of

hinted that they would maybe be interested in trading up. We talked about it. I think wasn't Drake May trading up for him? Wasn't that our option one two weeks ago? This will be a connection that we have to talk about because probably no one has more of an intimate knowledge, at least from where he started before he got to North Carolina, about Drake May than their new quarterbacks coach, Josh McCown. Well, with McCown, his experience is so vast that you can actually

make any connection work i mean you can it's like kevin bacon it's like it's like six degrees of josh mccown playing career coaching career he's got it all exactly and so with kirk cousins you could also look at this and say this is a former quarterback who would be able to see through the eyes of kirk cousins and work with him in a different way than maybe someone like Chris O'Hara could and sort of be a bunch of quarterbacks running this team yeah it's a good setup all these guys just tossing footballs at each other and everything they've all been around for a long time and they're not that different in age Josh McCown's got to be like 42 or something and Kirk Cousins is going to be 36 so it doesn't have to mean that there's a direct

drake may connection though last year he was a coach in carolina so he worked with bryce young uh did not work out great with bryce young but at the same time had that experience of working with a quarterback that was just recently drafted now i am not trying to make this, Hey, Vikings want Drake may because they just got his quarterback coach from high school. I wouldn't, I'm not doing that because that's too much of a stretch. And McCown has been widely renowned if you will, for his acumen. And as a guy who's been pegged as someone that will be a head coach someday and all that stuff, like that's been going on even since the Texans someone that will be a head coach someday and all that stuff like that's been going on even since the texans considered hiring him as their head coach right out of the league

that's the the type of gravitas as a knower of football that he brings which i think is very good for the viking staff to be able to bring him in and he had previous experience i think playing under kevin o'connell with the uh Cleveland Browns, I think was their connection. So that's an interesting move, though, to make that change now as they go into a process here in Indy where they're going to evaluate the heck out of these quarterbacks because they know there's a chance. Kirk walks up to them and says, I'm going to Vegas, baby. I'm headed to ATL like that. They know that's a chance Kirk walks up to them and says, I'm going to Vegas, baby. I'm headed to ATL like that. They know that's a possibility. And so now they have McCown here to help them in evaluating these quarterbacks.

But let's say just real quick before we move on to what the quarterbacks are looking to do here in Indianapolis. What do we think of that Drake May idea? I mean, because I think that is as ideal as ideal comes from his skill set, the arm strength, the ability to throw over the middle of the field, the playmaking off schedule. If I were to pick one guy to be the Vikings quarterback with Kevin O'Connell out of this entire draft, including Caleb Williams, I think I might take Drake May. Is that too hot of a take?

No, definitely not. I have Drake May just to kind of, I think, reiterate this from two weeks ago. And you're going to hear this a lot. Drake May is my number two quarterback, just a hair behind Caleb Williams. And I've also said a lot that in the Kyle, from the Kyle Shanahan coaching tree, Matt Ryan. And if you want to maybe include Joe Burrow, those are like the top of the overall athleticism skill set that we've seen in this system. And it is such a good system. It produces 67% completion percentage, eight yards per attempt, a lot of touchdowns, not a lot of picks. I want to see someone with Drake Mays abilities. I kind of call him like Justin Herbert light. He's not quite as big,

doesn't have quite as strong of an arm, but is athletic and certainly has one of the stronger arms, probably the second strongest arm in this draft class. I would love him in this offense. Again, he can create off structure, but he's very good in the bootleg game. And we know that is such a core element of what Kevin O'Connell and Kyle Shanahan tree wants to do. So like I said, two weeks ago, I love the idea. And I do think though, it is a good point that of course his hire of Josh McCown was not because, Hey, we're going to, you know, draft Drake May. We're like, we already know we're going to do that. I don't think that's what the Vikings were doing. Um, but like you said, all of his background coaching and then just being another quarterback in the room. We talked about that a lot last year, having that

quarterback head coach and the production that it was able to produce, bring in the room. We talked about that a lot last year, having that quarterback head coach and the production that it was able to produce, bring in another guy. Why not like add someone else that can be that second former quarterback to say, actually, I don't like that play against cover three or whatever the case may be, but this would be one.

And for as much of a trade down advocate as I am, I'm also a trade up for a quarterback advocate. He would be the one more than Jaden Daniels, more than Caleb Williams, because I think he's ready to produce inside a structured system that Kevin O'Connell has. So I may be a little bit trying too hard to draw lines together, but Kevin O'Connell won the Superbowl with Matthew Stafford as his quarterback. Matthew Stafford has crazy arm talent. He is a playmaker and he's a little wild and sometimes too wild. And that was why I

honestly doubted him initially with the Los Angeles Rams, because he had that pension for turnovers. And when you watch Drake May, so does he at times can get a little wild with the play making and throwing into traffic and so forth. But I mean, every quarterback is going to have weaknesses and make mistakes on college tape. The traits that may possesses to me are the best possible fit. And I think if you're Kevin O'Connell, you would see that potentially and say, I can mold that, but I can't invent that. Right. And so is there an actual connection here enough to think that the Vikings are trying to send three draft picks to the Patriots to get Drake May? I don't know.

And maybe Washington's just going to draft him anyway. And if that's the case, then there's not much you can do. If they've made that decision, it seems like that's what happened with Anthony Richardson last year. The Vikings were reportedly interested, but Jim Irsay knows how to tank. Got to give him that. And he tanked and they got the fourth pick and they were picking Richardson and that was it.

And there was nothing the Vikings could do. So that might be the case with Drake May, but nonetheless, a development worth talking about here in Indianapolis. So I want to go through the quarterbacks with you and I want you to tell me what we should be looking for from each quarterback, even if they're not doing anything in Indianapolis, like what they have to prove to teams. So we'll talk about the guys who are throwing of which Kevin O'Connell is going to watch, I'm sure closely and our guys that the Vikings, they could be there at number 11 and potentially the guys, the Vikings pick those guys are throwing that's Pennix it's

McCarthy and that's a, and Bo Nix and the others, Drake may and, uh, Caleb Williams are not. And Jaden Daniels is not right. So the top three are not are not. First of all, can I just say quick, Jaden Daniels should throw. I totally agree. So should Drake May, honestly. Especially because the Drake May news that he wasn't going to throw came out Tuesday evening after the other two, Caleb Williams and Jaden Daniels, put out those reports or they came out that they were not going to throw.

If you're Drake May with that arm talent, go out there and chuck a ball 70 yards and run around and show how you do the play action fake and do the bootleg and how fluid you are as an athlete, how bigger, like how much bigger you are taller than Caleb Williams and just thicker than Jaden Daniels. It seemed like, again, I don't want to put too much weight on what a quarterback does at the combine but it was kind of a missed opportunity i thought for drake may or jayden daniels to show off his athleticism and his what i think is a pretty good arm as well i guess what i was thinking

is along the lines of both of them are talked about as the top three picks but even as i was doing the other night trying to go through and mock and figure out where the top 10 is going to go, it is no guarantee for either guy that they are that they are taken at the top. I mean, with Caleb Williams, it's all but a guarantee that he's the number one overall pick. But everybody else, I mean, you could be the guy who drops if one team is not sold on you and maybe you want to sell yourself here in indianapolis i guess they decided not to maybe they thought it would hurt their stock who knows but still they are going to be here they're going to participate in other things so what are they trying to prove to teams i just for vikings purposes see no use in spending time with caleb williams i think he's going to be a bear doesn't have much to prove because they are going to draft him. But as far as Drake may goes, he's not going to throw. And I don't know what events

he's going to do. That makes this a little harder. But if you were interviewing Drake may, if you're Kevin O'Connell, because this is where it all matters is those 15 minute interviews, the sit downs with them, they're going to go through stuff on the whiteboard and have conversations. What would you want to know if you were Kevin O'Connell from Drake May, that is going to sell you on giving up the farm to move up with new England or something like that? It's a fantastic question. And it is one that I pretty sure the Vikings are probably having right now, or they already have that set of questions ready. I would lean into, and I'm not going to pretend that I know know the ins and outs of the north carolina passing offense but in watching the all 22 film it's pretty simplistic a lot of rpos a lot of just four verticals like there was

not it's not as complex as the kevin o'connell kyle shanahan, I would have to ask him, like, you know, we're going to show you this play. Where do you think you should go with this football or explain or maybe look at his film and say, okay, this looks like a simple, just four goes. What was going through your mind on this touchdown or on this interception? Because I think that is what can sometimes slow even a really talented quarterback like Drake May, his development in year one that everything's just moving too fast. It's like, oh, I had one read in college and my wide receiver was faster than his. They have Tez Walker is probably going to go in the first couple rounds, a really big and fast wide receiver,

good running backs there. That's what I would ask Drake Mayotte. I would say, I would show him some of our film, Vikings film, and say, what would you read here? How would you read this coverage? Would you read high to low, this triangle read, whatever the case may be, and then go to his North Carolina film and say, were you doing that much reading? Were you able to audible? Were you able to see a blitz coming and change the play? Those things I think are the, I don't want to say huge question marks but they're way more of a question mark than anything traits related when it comes to drake may i think that if it's nfl coaches in that room they have a really good sense for how far along

someone is and former quarterbacks too yeah of course i assume that josh mccown is immediately in with all this right he should be if you're working with two former quarterbacks they are going to know the ins and outs of all this stuff, but also you can't fool them. Like they will know how far along you actually were. And I remember them talking about Jaron Hall and how Jaron Hall did not try to BS them about his command at the line of scrimmage. They called the play. He ran the play. That was just how it worked at BYU. He did not try to tell them, Oh no, no, no. i had all these checks and changes when he didn't because it's college football and that's how it works if i'm kevin o'connell i i want drake may to show me some of the mistakes and explain to me what happened there and one of them that is one

of his more hilarious throws of the year was against the gophers maybe you remember this one he's rolling out to his right and he's got an open guy and then he throws it right to the gopher's linebacker and i mean as if it was a tight end check down yeah right to him and and in watching that game back the wow throws are wow but there's also just a handful of these plays per game that are turnover worthy plays that are clear mistakes on his part that are inaccuracy. What are you doing to make this accuracy consistent? And this is not to say, oh, he's wildly inaccurate. This is nitpicking at a top five prospect, but I want to understand from him how you're getting to point a to point B, because the NFL is not a development league. It is a league where you better hire one of those

quarterback gurus. If you actually want to get better in the off season, because the NFL can't actually work with you. There's a collective bargaining agreement. So if you're counting on, Oh, Josh McCown is just going to turn me into a great quarterback. No, no, no. Josh McCown will work with you, but he's a, he's here to game plan. He's here to draw up the plays and they're going to be complex. Right. And he's not here to show you how to sharpen your accuracy on a day-to-day basis. That's somebody else's job. It's actually yours as the quarterback. I want to know that from him, because if there's one

concern I have about him, it is some of these moments where you go, all right, he, even when he does good things, okay, he went off schedule, but was he supposed to go off schedule there? And he does that kind of a lot. Tell me why that happened. Yeah, I totally agree with that. That's the one kind of weakness on film. I do think it's a good point that you brought up. He's not like scattershot accurate. Like he's not like someone that can't hit the broad side of a barn. And I think that seemingly does come with the stronger arm quarterbacks. It's just harder to control that fastball going 100 miles per hour, as the case with Josh Allen. I even think with Justin Herbert in the final season at Oregon,

it's like, oh, he's got a big arm, he can move around, but he's not quite as accurate as Joe Burrow or Tua. You want to see, is that going to be a problem for Drake May once he's in the NFL? Or is it decision-making base where it looks like it's a bad throw? He thought it was a back shoulder, but it really is supposed to go over the shoulder, things like that. Those are the questions where really we kind of joke around about, you know,

for the combine quarterbacks, you can't really get much from them. I think they can glean a lot of information that will help them either go, Oh, he really didn't do any type of audibling. Maybe he's going to be a little bit of a, not a day one starter, or they can glean and say, actually, it's a pretty smart kid. He understands what to do. Then maybe, you know, North Carolina didn't let him do that or whatever the case may be. But that interview, if they ask those type of questions, what I mentioned and what you mentioned, I think they can learn a lot about Drake May coming from not a quote unquote modern day pro style offense. Folks, have you ever heard of test driving a phone network?

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That was me getting the app to try it out. I know, great sound effects there. Test drive U.S. Cellular's award-winning network for 30 days. U.S. Cellular's award-winning network for 30 days. U.S. Cellular, built for us. Terms apply. Awards based on open signal, independent data. Visit uscellular.com for details. I would also be curious. I don't know if he's going to do it or not. I haven't seen this report yet. I would love him to run the 40 and see how fast he really is because running away from people in college is easy.

Running away from people in the NFL is hard. Being a playmaker in college is not that hard. Being a playmaker in the NFL takes a next level of speed and acceleration. And even trying to be creative in college can work great. But in the NFLfl sometimes it's just interceptions and we saw that a bit from sam darnold and there is a part of me now he wasn't as reckless as sam darnold who was just insane he led the ncaa in turnovers his final year at usc right that was not drake may that right but there's a little bit yeah yeah yeah there is

moments of that awkwardness concern me a bit uh let's talk about jayden daniels and then we'll get into the guys we're going to throw, and we'll have a lot more to say there about what you want to see from their specific throwing. Again, with Jaden Daniels, I don't know what he's doing, if he's doing any of that stuff, but I don't think he's going to run the 40. I don't think he has anything to prove with the 40.

Dude is fast, and he's going to be fine there. But I would want to know from Jaden Daniels, what happened in the other seasons, right? Don't you want to know? Like what, what was it? Was it Malik neighbors or are you actually like that good? And it just took you a while to develop. And I'll give you a little nugget because you were flying in as Casey Adafo Mensah was talking and he talked about older prospects, which Jaden Daniels is very old for 24. Yeah, I think he's going to be 24. He's like 23, but maybe 24 by the time he's in the league.

But anyway, he is older. It's not talked about as much as it is with Bo Nix because of his talent. But what Quasey said was he looked at the older quarterbacks as not necessarily being a bad thing where you might look at a wide receiver and say all right well he dominated because he was 25 but with quarterbacks more of minor league seasons is how he phrased it i like that i like hey the guy actually developed got better improved each season we saw that from lamar jackson we saw that from jalen hertz the guys who have become good quarterbacks and this is a selling point on bo n too, got better and better and better as they went along

in college. But I would want to know, and maybe you can answer this for me as someone who was high on Jaden Daniels this entire year, what happened in the other seasons? Yeah, that's a great point from Kwesi and from you that I would say I agree with it, that that's the one position, although I would always lean toward liking younger prospects, but quarterback, there's like a lot of examples. Joe Burrow was older. I know Kenny Pickett was older, hasn't really panned out, but that let's say for this year's draft class into next year, Quinn Ewers,

there was a little stretch where he went right up to the deadline, and this is the quarterback from Texas. watched his film and I'm like this guy's not that good I was like he should stay so now he's he was this big recruit at Ohio State number one whatever in the country he's going to be like 24 next year and he'll probably be better and more polished coming into the NFL so that's a great point from Kwesi that it, that's the one spot where it's probably okay that that's the case. Now to go back to his, he started as a freshman at Arizona state. He was a big recruit. He wasn't bad. He wasn't quite as dynamic as of a runner. And I do think he was an ascending passer, obviously better from inside the pocket.

I'm kind of sort of of the belief the receivers at LSU kind of helped him out a little bit. And what's so weird and like ironic about this is there was Justin Jefferson and Jamar Chase at LSU. It's like, were they making Joe Burrow better? It turns out they're all good. So I think that probably helps him a little bit. The one question that I would want to ask Jayden Daniels is a very specific point that you brought up two weeks ago when we first started this draft season. I would show Jayden Daniels one of his 50-yard runs. And, okay, great play.

And ask him, obviously from the all-22 angle, why did you not throw it to that crosser that was there, your number two reader, your number three read? Because there's been a lot of talk, and I'm sure Matt's covered it. The pressure to sacrate was relatively high and scrambling from clean pockets was relatively high. That was a problem for Kenny Pickett was a big reason why I was not in love with Kenny Pickett as a prospect, even though we had the big final season and stayed and got better at Pittsburgh. It was, that was a clean pocket. What's he doing? The difference though, is Jaden Daniels will be able to run away from people. Kenny Pickett can't, but for as much as I'm the biggest advocate and I, and I know Matt is too, and I'm sure most of you are, you know, the improvisation ability, the scrambling, you don't really want that to be your rookie quarterbacks calling card instantly.

I mean, I think it can help you as you develop, as things start to slow down early on. Deshaun Watson ran a lot. Russell Wilson, Josh Allen did. But I would just ask him, what were you seeing here? Because if you're in year three and Jayden Daniels can never get to his second or third read, that's a gigantic problem. And you can have the most structured, best offense in the league with Jefferson and Hawkinson and whoever, and Jordan Addison. If your quarterback can't get through his reads and read the full field, that's a huge problem.

I see some of and we watch a lot of this guy in Buffalo. I see some of Tyrod Taylor in him where when he's throwing deep. Oh, my God. That's a good comp. It is beautiful. But when he's not, when he's forced to throw to the middle of the field reads, you just didn't see a lot of it. I mean, like to actually drop back and look to the middle of the field, read defense throw. And that doesn't mean it can't be there. It just means that it wasn't there in the college tape. That's what's the hardest thing to deal with. But you're right that there were a lot of times where he dropped back and he was just like, oh, I see 50 yards to run. And maybe it was, well, I could have completed a 10 yard pass or i could have run for a 50-yard touchdown so i saw that and did it and that's what makes it a challenge but from daniels that's a great point

i would want him to explain his thinking to try to understand are you just running because you couldn't see it or are you running because that was the best choice at the time for sure now to the quarterbacks that are the second wave uh where, where do you want to start? You want to start? Well, QB four on your board is McCarthy. So let's begin with him. Now this is a realistic, uh, Vikings quarterback number 11. If they stay there, that could be him. Now, as far as what things he has to explain, one is why they didn't throw the football so much. I'd begin there, how their offense worked, what he was asked to see, how Harbaugh taught him all those things, but this guy's going

to throw. So what are you looking for him as a actual athlete and passer during the combine that could sell you on, Hey, this is the Vikings quarterback. Of course he is. I mean, up until this point, he's going to work out. He is seizing, I think, what is a great opportunity with the first wave, those top three guys that we just discussed that are kind of mocked inside the top six, at least not working out. J.J. McCarthy, I think is a pretty good athlete. How good of an athlete is he? Like freaky, like has a crazy high RAS score. And you're like, whoa, this guy can like be in the design run game. He's going to run away from some linebackers. Or is he just like, Oh, he's decently athletic, probably can't do too much with him outside of structure. He did that a lot in the big 10. The big 10 does not traditionally have the greatest athletes in the world compared to the ACC and the SEC. And I think even the PAC 12. So I would certainly want to see that from him. And I think he has a pretty strong arm. So I think if he just shows intermediate level, the velocity and the downfield throws,

which of course you're not making a ton of those every game, but just he needs to sell himself as, like I said earlier with Drake May, he's an ascending talent and show like, look, I was kind of pigeonholed in this offense. Jim Harbaugh wanted it to be 1995 and run the ball. I formation all the time. And we won a lot of games. We won a national title with it, but I'm actually someone that if I was at Oregon, or if I was at North Carolina or USC, I could have been, you know, a legitimate Heisman type player by just having that big time workout. So with his throwing specifically, what I've realized over the years is that the NFL looks for things that maybe the outside world doesn't know how to look for when it comes to technique and throwing the football.

And I give you an example. Now I watched Will Levis's games, but when I saw his workout and then I saw him up close when tennessee practiced against the vikings okay i understood it i understood oh this guy has a different throwing technique than i have ever seen with this kind of short flicky of the wrist kind of thing and it made him inconsistent and it's not something that you could change or, or work out of him. So you're just going to have to try to work around that. And clearly the league looked at that and said, nah, that's not enough.

Right. That's, that's somebody who's a project. That's not somebody who we are going to buy fully into with that throwing technique, the way the feet tied with the arms. It was basically just like, ah,

like whip the ball and he whipped it super hard but if you're a big arm if you're gonna go all in you better be sure i think that mccarthy is a good technical like here's how he hits his back foot here's how he looks like he was taught to throw the football as a kid like someone who had been coached from a small kid all the way up and up and up but yet still the accuracy is yeah ish is ish it's not horrible but it's not a calling card of his game so what i'd want to see is how does his throwing at the combine compare to what i saw on tape does it look like he is improving it already now that he's done with his season? Does it look like he's focused on those mechanics? And what I really want to see is let's see the cannon.

Is it a cannon or is it just a bat? Yeah, that's a good point because it's like on film, there's some like literal, like old school Michigan, like Chad Henney, Todd Collins throws like far hash deep out that are on the money with anticipation and just a rifle shot. And then there's other times where he's rolling out and he's trying to create and he still gets the ball there, but you're like, just got there just in the nick of time. It probably could have had more of a straight line to it. I want to see that too. And I think actually to your point, probably the best in terms of the mental side of the game, because we talked about that with the first wave, pick his brain about Jim Harbaugh. Be like, what did he show you as his former quarterback that has coached and developed

guys like Colin Kaepernick and all the way through from San Diego, Stanford, Andrew Luck. Like he certainly has heaped praise on JJ McCarthy and said like he's the Patrick Mahomes in this draft whatever that's what any coach is going to say but really ask him specific like quarterback e questions like here in this little quarterback e room with Kevin O'Connell and Josh McCown what I and and that's of course something we can't know I think that the guy's got a brain because I I don't think it's easy to play for Jim Harbaugh. No. And I think that Jim Harbaugh being an NFL guy has a lot of NFL stuff in his offense.

Even the way that he plays the pass off of the run was very NFL 2012. And that's what it kind of looked like is San Francisco, except for without the true running quarterback. But when Alex Smith was there, that's what it looked like, like is san francisco except for without the true running quarterback but when alex smith was there that's what it looked like like escapability and alex smith was a very good athlete he was but was also not a kaepernick level difference maker with his legs i want to see prove to me that you have the athleticism and arm strength to be a difference maker, because I just don't believe that average gets it done. Average traits, average athleticism, a little above average arm.

What's your power? What is your, okay, this guy, when the pressure comes, when there's problems, are you going to be able to make a play and be a difference maker and solve that problem with your physical skill. Because if you can't, it's very hard to do with just the mental part. Segwaying off that, he can't really show it at the combine, but I would really urge listeners and viewers to watch full Michigan games. And there's a lot of cutups of J.J. McCarthy on film. What you just said there at the end, I think is actually a strength of his game that sometimes it can look awkward. Of course course he took sacks like every quarterback does,

but I think solving problems like that ridiculous, like one handed catch that he made it in the Rose bowl. And then it was like a Philly special. He caught the ball and then, or kind of, and then he caught it and then threw it as he was about to take a hit there was I was just re-watching the Michigan Penn State game earlier this week and there's like a fourth down that is just blown up like there is a corner waiting for him to like run on this design power run to the outside and he just puts his foot in the ground and like shakes that player and dives and gets the first down I think sometimes it can look again awkward with J.J. McCarthy kind of like Drake May but I actually think for as low volume of a passer as he was, and he was pretty good, he was pretty efficient, he actually showed in most of those key moments, and yes, Michigan's

team was good all around, that he is a pretty good problem solver, occasionally with his arm, but most of the time with his legs. But in order to do that against the beasts of the beasts, you've got to have the athleticism traits. You're right. Yeah. You've got to have the athleticism. You got to have the actual arm strength, not just the collegiate arm strength. And I think it's hard to see on tape. I really do. The difference between is he really throwing it at NFL speed plus, or is it just average? You can tell maybe a little better for the teams at the combine, the workouts now onto Bo Nix, uh, assuming that he is your quarterback five. Um, I think that there are a lot of similar things we're talking about. The deep ball is going to be a question.

It's going to have to answer to why I didn't play very well in the senior bowl practices, I think, uh, which may have hurt him more than it helped him honestly, to be at the senior bowl practices, I think, uh, which may have hurt him more than it helped him, honestly, to be at the senior bowl. Now, maybe that, that wasn't that important to them because the practices are weird and you're playing with receivers. You don't know. And I don't know, maybe the interviews were more important, but I didn't think it helped his stock the same way as someone like Justin Herbert, when he went there or Jalen hurts and lit it on fire and kind of prove themselves. Uh, but with Nick's same sort of thing applies with the athleticism. He made some plays out of structure. He ran pretty effectively when he was asked to do it at Oregon. Can you actually be a difference maker with your legs

or not? Because I see a Jalen hurts comp here. Now that's not running for a thousand yards, but some limitations as a passer, it's gotta be right for him, but could be an RPO could run the football effectively. If he actually has that level of athletic skill. And then I think it's really about the consistency with accuracy, where when you see someone jetting across the field on an intermediate route, one thing I see from him at times is, is that ball on time? Or is it a little late? But he's wide open. He's wide open, right.

And you see that a lot on the tape where I'm like, my brain goes, throw it. Oh, and now he threw it and he caught it. But if you have that happen in the NFL, interception, pass deflection, incomplete. So I want to see his timing and rhythm in how he works out and whether I'll know or not, uh, doesn't matter, but they need to know. And I'll be interested to hear, you know, someone like Daniel Jeremiah break that down. What does he see for those things? Cause I think those are questions he needs to answer. Yeah. First I want to start off with something kind of general. I think recency bias is a hell of a drug and we are coming off last year. And again, this is me

being the ultimate, and I'm sure you are too, guy that's like, you can't really take anything from the throwing sessions. Last year, CJ Stroud had one of the best throwing sessions we've ever seen. Pinpoint accurate. They were like swooning over him on the broadcast. Bryce Young didn't throw last year, but CJ Stroud's throwing session was like, whoa, he is surgically accurate. I think there's some momentum there where whether it's Bo Nix or JJ McCarthy, Spencer, whoever it is, they could like help their stock if they they're ultra accurate and throw with a lot

of confidence and velocity. So that I think certainly matters more so than maybe it has in the past. With Bo Nix, it's a lot, like you said, a lot of the same things as I'm questioning with JJ McCarthy. How good of an athlete are you? He was this decorated recruit out of Alabama. And he, again, again looks athletic I do get the shades of Jalen Hurts I don't think Jalen Hurts even is like this freaky out of this world athlete I think the situation in Philadelphia that it was a very well-designed run game it's a little bit thicker than Bo Nix you can take a little bit more punishment um I want to see any to kind of tie back to another quarterback, you asked about

Jaden Daniels. You got to ask him about Auburn because at Auburn, he was undraftable in terms of bad decision-making, taking way too many sacks, trying to do too much with his legs in the SEC, and it did not work. So you can almost tie in all of them. You could tie in the Drake May element too. You completed 78% of your passes. And i've talked about this like how much of that were you reading second read third read how much was like hey troy franklin's going to be wide open on this play and he was a lot um that's i mean i like troy franklin on film but i'm like man he was just running wide open all the time um so that's all these things i guess i have the most concerns it's like a little bit of eat from each other quarterback which is kind of paints the picture of why I'm a little bit lower on Bo

Knicks, but a great workout, a great throwing session. And then B I mean, obviously we're not going to see this, but the Vikings and other teams being able to pick his brain about that very gadgety Oregon offense. He could certainly boost his stock over the next few days. And now Michael Pennix, the cannon, the monster rocket, he's got to show it off, but he also has to do it with touch. And that was something that at times you didn't see. Now you saw it on a 30 yard pass where he could drop that thing in really nicely

with velocity, perfect arc on it to Roma dunze, a great, maybe top 10 wide receiver. But if you were talking about, say, like a 10-yard hitch, sometimes it'd be over here, sometimes it'd be over there. Ball placement, not great. Yeah, the ball placement, it's kind of like the guy winds up and throws it, but he's throwing it 90 miles an hour. Right, the wild thing. They're going to want to see that.

Now, I don't know how much that can really change because he is on the older side and he's played a lot of football. The mechanics, is this the guy with the will Levis mechanics where they're like, all right, you can really hook that thing, but are we going to be able to work with you mechanically? There is potential for Michael Penix in my mind to be a first round pick or a third round pick that teams could just be like, it's not there guys. I like him personally because I think the arm strength is special. I think the leadership element matters a lot to me. And he did everything with that offense. It was not a run and then throw offense. It was just throw, throw, throw, throw. And then if he got tired, they would hand it off and then throw some more that means a lot to

me i don't know what it means to them and i also am not sure what testing he's doing i want to see how fast the guy runs because he did playmaking against texas and at no other time and it reminded me a little bit of cj stroud against georgia yeah who got criticized for not making plays and then did it in the biggest moment so is there more athletic ability there and then of course the biggest thing for him medicals we won't know if it gets leaked you can assume that it's his agent or it's a team that wants him to drop depending on if it's good or bad but neither one can really truly be trusted so for me it's entirely about show the touch, convince teams in those meeting rooms and convince teams in those medical rooms. Yeah, I can actually give a little, or it's

not from me, but more background to what you said about, could he be a first rounder or a third rounder? A couple weeks ago, maybe about a month ago, Bruce Feldman, who is of the athletic, he's about as plugged in as you're going to get for any college football reporter. He was on the Rich Eisen show and was told, and I'm pretty sure this is exactly what he said, that he was told that some teams have a first round grade on Michael Penix. Other teams think he could go undrafted, which I can see that because of the medicals, the lack of mobility and just the league is trending away from that type of guy not that we ever loved injury prone guys because he

did have a lot of injuries but the lack of yes and the second thing i think is is it's funny that you mentioned about his delivery you've probably seen it with like maybe tua that in 2024 and i guess this was last year people can like switch around and say like, Hey, what do you think about Michael Penick's release now that he's a righty? I'm like, it still looks weird. It's still weird. Like, and I've seen that with Tua and I'm like, Nope, still looks weird. It does not look like a normal throwing motion. So you're right. He's not going to be able to change that throwing motion. I don't think teams are going to ask him to do that or want that from him. It's not like super elongated, like Tim Tebow, like where he brings the ball down.

It's actually a quick release, but it just looks, it's weird. Totally agree though. He should just run and be like, look, you guys are all expecting me to be slow. And if he's slow, then like, okay, yep. That's what we thought. Or if he runs in like the four sevens, you're like, oh, actually he's a little bit faster than I thought. That will be huge for him. And it's going to be some teams are going to not like him at all, but there is a little window that I've said before in past drafts of Michael Penix is probably not your franchise savior that can just take a crappy team and be great, but you plug them into a good team, Vikings, and he can distribute the football to good receivers like he did. Three of his guys are going to get drafted at wide receiver and make big time throws, which I think is a pretty big separator from the good to the great to the elite quarterbacks in today's NFL.

And that's where I wonder if some of the stuff is being nitpicky with someone who graded so high by pff who had such great numbers throwing really to all areas of the field barely ever got sacked which he's very good at yes he's very good at avoiding sex he just gets rid of the football so that's similar to jared goff in a way where you know okay you can't run away but do you get rid of it do you find your guy and just strikes me as someone who could lead a franchise from a personality perspective. But then there's the other part of it. That's all right. If this is as good as he's ever going to get, is that going to be good enough to compete for a championship with? And I don't know the answer. I really don't because I look at Jared Goff and Matt Stafford and they don't run a whole lot.

Dak Prescott never runs. And so it's like, all right, well, can you do the things that those guys do? Maybe. I mean, Jared Goff is a great example of someone who he's erratic with his ball placement, but receivers are great. And velocity makes up for that because the ball gets there faster. Defenders can't close as quickly. Defenders can't anticipate. And he gets rid because the ball gets there faster defenders can't close as quickly defenders can't anticipate and he gets rid of the ball very quickly so there there's i want to see

the the workout see what it looks like up close with the throwing motion and how accurate he is in you know the shorts and so forth but i i think he is a guy that could really wow here and people will be walking away going oh man this dude can throw a football which at the end of the day is still the most important thing yeah true two separate points here um just as you were saying or uh talking there i think with penix for as much as i think he is clearly like in to me like tier three like a day two guy obviously boost him up because he's playing quarterback just in terms of positional value even though he's in tier three and usually we we've talked about this a lot like there's not a long list of these day two day three quarterbacks who are great i know there's brock purdy recently

but i could envision him being a productive quarterback on the right team a la jared goff secondly what you mentioned about velocity you have your book book on PFF. I listened to a PFF NFL show with Sam Monson and Steve Palazzolo a while ago. I think it was last year in the offseason. And I thought Sam brought up a fantastic point when it comes to arm strength and its growing importance in the NFL. The NFL is like 60 to 70-ish percent, 75% zone. What happens when there's zone? Every single defender from the back seven is staring at you. You're the quarterback. When it was more man-heavy, it was more important to be more accurate because you had just a little window. Darrell Revis was following your wide receiver,

and you maybe had a back shoulder open. You had to throw it there. Pinpoint accuracy. Now you could list off a laundry, you know, a ton, Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, Justin Herbert, these strong arm quarterbacks, they're seeing zone. There's a linebacker to the receivers left. There's a safety to his right. He's, they know the throw is coming, but they can't get there in time. And that happens, I think with golf at times where maybe he is a little late or it is a perfect coverage, but they can't get there in time. And that happens, I think, with Goff at times where maybe he is a little late or it is a perfect coverage, but he can crank the velocity when it's a clean pocket. Michael Penix can certainly do that too.

And that's what we talk about, superpowers. What's your superpower? His superpower is the windows. And I know it was bad against Michigan. Michigan has 18 players here or something. Combined record, yeah. There was no beating Michigan for Washington. It wasn't close. But againstxas a more comparable team the number of times where there was zones or

there was tight windows and he fired it through there but not like by accident sometimes with tight window throws someone stays with a read stays with a read i'm just throwing it anyway defenders come and try to get it they just miss and everyone goes tight window throw like i don't know i think it was an accident but when someone's coming across and there's defenders there in a zone and you have to fire it in between them he was throwing darts in that game he kind of did that all year long so he has my attention uh he definitely has my attention and i think from a viking perspective if they are looking at quarterback and we'll figure it out when that happens if it's going happen, one of the options would be to draft at 11 and trade back in to the first round into the backend.

Because if you look at the draft board, there's this cluster of teams at the top needs quarterbacks. There's a second wave needs quarterbacks. That's giants, Falcons, Vikings, Raiders, Broncos.iders broncos after that though i mean most most teams have their guys and there could be a situation where you give up i think it's 42 for the vikings you give up 42 and next year's first i guess if you gotta go that far but i was thinking more like that's true you know go back in something like like that. And you move up from 42 to like 26. I don't know who's picking 26, but you go there. Somebody drops back.

You take your quarterback there. So you've got a little bit of cake and eat it too. That could be a Michael Penick situation if they really like him. And I think we talk about like what is the best option, trading up for Drake May, I think, whatever. The Vikings have to have like five contingency plans because they could be like on the phone with Gerard Mayo and everyone in new England and be like, Hey, we have this deal. And then suddenly, Oh, we're on the clock and we got a better deal. Sorry. Like, I think that sometimes even I can like, forget like,

Oh, like there's probably, especially in the, or even in the first round, so many like just missed situations where, oh, what if the Browns didn't pick Denzel Ward and they picked Bradley Chubb? What would have happened with the, would the Bills have had to trade up higher to get Josh Allen? Things like that. So I think they have to have that as a contingency plan to say, we don't, let's say love JJ McCarthy at 11, but we love this edge rusher or this offensive lineman, whatever the case may be. And then say, this is plans. This is part of plan C let's trade back in, get Michael panics for a second and a fourth, but we get that fifth year option at the game's most vital position. I saved the hottest question for you. 45 minutes of the

podcast for the last thing I want to ask. Let's say now I'll get, I'll give you my reaction from the podiums today. If you just listened to Kevin O'Connell, you'd be like, Kirk's coming back. And if you just listened to Kwesi Adafo-Mensah, you'd be like, no,

I don't think that's happening. I think that they're looking for somebody else. Let's say that they try to split the difference and they try to bring back Kirk and draft a quarterback. So that obviously would not mean trading your entire franchise. Who would be the best guy to draft for the Vikings in that scenario in which Kirk cousins is being used as a compete now bridge type of quarterback to develop your other guy. Who's the best option for that? Assuming that the top three are off, but you've got your choice of the other three.

Probably JJ McCarthy. I'm just, and there's probably Bo Nix fans listening and watching. They're like, why would you not say Bo Nix? Like he maybe needs some refinement. He's a little raw. I just think McCarthy being younger and younger and having i think better tools than bow next i think and maybe we'll get some confirmation on who's the better athlete who has a stronger arm here at the combine um but i i think it's jj mccarthy because he's younger and he just has not played nearly as much football bow nick started 60 games in college played that's i think i believe it's a record um like for most starts in college football mccarthy played a lot of football but not relative to bo nicks and i think if you're just

projecting out all right you're going to be behind kirk cousins who will run the system as well as any quarterback in the league learn from him learn the intricacies of reading defenses and coverages and spend two year or a year, let's say, uh, understanding the playbook. I think JJ McCarthy has a higher ceiling in 2025, 2026 than Bo Nix. So I hate it, but I also think it's realistic. I really do. I think it is realistic that they would try to completely thread the needle where it's bring back Kirk and compete now and make sure Justin Jefferson is happy with his quarterback. Yeah. Draft a guy or potentially trade back in and

draft a guy. And I don't think that it has to be the youngest guy if he's going to sit, because once upon a time, you and I, we watched quarterbacks like Steve young, not start until they were 26, 27. They sat forever. You know what? It worked. Uh, quarterback age doesn't concern me unless it's chris winky or brandon and the guy's like older than us we don't we don't need the guy remembering todd collins playing in michigan like we do so um that i've walked away a little bit thinking wait are they gonna try to do both because i think one guy wants one thing and the other guy wants the other thing which that's a good point to bring that up because the last two year or less i almost

think three years now we've been like when are they gonna move on from kirk like they're gonna do it and then we realize and i remember being here at the combine last year after hearing them talk we're like no they understand for job security reasons and for fan happiness reasons and ownership happiness reasons like winning and getting to the playoffs even if you lose in the first round like that matters that buys you another year to be able to see your vision actually happen and and build the team the way you want it to so i think there's more than hey let's just tank i don't really think that's in this relatively new vikings regimes dna i think for fan happiness bringing back her cousins would not be very popular. I think the approval rating of that would be very low.

And I'm talking very low, just doing the same thing that hasn't worked. But what if it's Kirk and a quarterback in the first round that would boost it a little, maybe it would. I think I'll just give you the, my raw unfiltered opinion. As you know,

I often do. I think they'd be drafting the guy for the next coaching staff, personally. Because if you bring back Kirk and you go 8-9, you miss the playoffs, you should be fired. Because think about how much money ownership is going to have to spend for you to not make the playoffs. Yeah, good point. Right?

I mean, that's a thing to remember, that if I'm being asked to write a check for $50 million guaranteed, and then that gets me nothing that I couldn't have gotten without with the rookie starting, uh, I'm not going to be less money. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not going to be too thrilled. So the pressure should be on. And this is why I hate the idea. If you're going to bring back Kirk, what you should do is sign Saquon Barkley and draft the number three receiver and try to create the greatest show on turf. Cause your defense is going to be bad. There's no way around it. It's going to be bad. and draft the number three receiver and try to create the greatest show on turf because your defense is going to be bad there's no way around it it's going to be bad so you should just go

all in on the offensive side and give it the best try you can um wouldn't it be funny if a team just like did that like i feel like no team i mean it's a great idea but i feel like every team's like all right we need to improve the d line it would just be hilarious if we actually saw especially like an analytics forward jim be like hey guys uh defense we might allow 30 points a game but we're gonna try to score 34 points a game like that would be funny and the vikings that would be the the blueprint so if they're listening anyone in the vikings organization that's the blueprint right there oh we've seen it dante culpepper era man those defenses were horrible they were it was just all d all Dante, Randy Moss, Chris Carter doing everything they could, but they couldn't stop anything during those years. So it has been done and it can get you far. I mean, the lions were

that this year, weren't they? I mean, not purposefully, but they didn't have much of a defense and they had a top five offense made the NFC championship. Anything short of winning in the playoffs would be a fireable offense. In my opinion, if they bring back her cousins, that's a fair bar because there's no other explanation for it unless you think you can really win. And then if you draft a quarterback to try to appease everybody, all right. But if you're going to have Kirk for two years, you're going to ask McCarthy to sit for two years, use two years of development time and rookie contract. All right. You might want to think you're the Packers, but you also might fail and get fired. And then whoever comes in next gets to play with your quarterback. So

yeah, it's a bad idea. It's a bad idea, but I thought it might happen. That's your hot take from Indianapolis inside a random hotel in downtown Indianapolis next to a random dive bar where I just had chicken Alfredo. So that's what's going on here. And we're going to sit down very soon with a quasi dafl Mensa and Kevin O'Connell and the beat writer session, get a lot more information from them. Some other things that need to be touched on as well.

They changed trainers. Brian Flores didn't get a head coaching job. So we're going to touch on a lot of information from them. Some other things that need to be touched on as well. They changed trainers. Brian Flores didn't get a head coaching job. So we're going to touch on a lot of that different stuff as we react here on the channel. And Chris and I are going to have way more draft analysis and speculation. And as rumors come out, we're going to react to them here in Indy. One more thing I want to say. I believe this happened last year on Wednesday at the combine. I believe the NFL PA report that the players give on how much they like the, the, the locker room and the coaching staff and the, and the, the amenities and the Vikings, but I believe at the highest grade, like eight plus top grade. So we'll probably have that to talk about as well and see if that's changed at all or if the, that status quo has continued for the Vikings.

You know what else happened was Jalen Carter happened as we were here. So there's always a combine surprise. We'll find out what it is. And so thank you all for listening and I guess stay tuned because football.