Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Championship Sunday reactions: Is this it for the Packers? What can the Vikings borrow? And Matt Stafford is leaving Detroit

Episode Date: January 25, 2021

Matthew Coller and Paul Hodowanic once again get together to break down everything they saw from the playoffs and whewww there was a lot to talk about. Will Aaron Rodgers and the Packers ever get back to the NFC Championship game? What was Matt LaFleur thinking with his field goal? Is there any debate whatsoever now that Tom Brady is the GOAT? What would we take from the Super Bowl teams and give to the Vikings? And where will Matt Stafford be traded? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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retweet it, follow Fan HQ and Purple Insider and myself if you don't already follow me. Good to go, and you are automatically entered. I hope you win the Jared Allen signed jersey. Let's get on to the show. Welcome to a reaction podcast from Championship Sunday. I'm very sad because now only one more weekend of football, two very good games, of course, the best of the two, by far the Tampa Bay Bucks defeating the Green Bay Packers in the early game. And Paul Hodowanek with me here, as always, to react to the playoffs. And I have to say, Paul, that Vikings fans were like Neo in the Matrix,

dodging the bullets here today. No Stephon Diggs, no Les Frazier, no Aaron Rodgers in the Super Bowl, and now the future of the Packers is a little bit murky. I saw Pro Football Talk already tweet out about Aaron Rodgers potentially leaving because that's what you do if you're pro football talk. But, you know, quite a day, though, quite a day. I mean, a lot of things happening, game management decisions that were baffling, back and forth game at Lambeau Field. And then Patrick Mahomes, I think he was healthy. I think he was all right because he looked like the best quarterback who has ever picked up a football against the Buffalo Bills defense. They get down 9-0 and just steamroll from there, which, you know, you've heard me joke before, you're allowed, overcome it. The Bills sort of tried to counterpunch, but their defense found

a way, and Kansas City was just on a completely different level. So your overriding thoughts on what we got for results today. Well, just what a day for Vikings fans in general. You mentioned it, but the Packers, they lost in about the exact way Vikings fans would want them to lose, just absolutely giving it away with mistake after mistake after mistake and just kind of shooting themselves in the foot. And then Stephon Diggs got relatively shut down. So the matchup they were looking for, and oh, and then you have the Minnesota kids, Tyler Johnson, basically securing the Bucs the win. And so everything that could have gone right for Vikings fans did today. But

yeah, it was, it was a great day of football. Like I said, before I got on here, my dad is a Packer fan. So there were some tense moments in the house today. But we we we got through it. And yeah, I'm just I'm sad that we only have one more Sunday full of football, but really happy about the games that we had. It was, it was a blast. The decision by Matt LaFleur. I mean, it's something that anybody who follows me on Twitter, I've kind of become obsessed with over the last few years of game management. You and I, after Vikings games have talked about this, this is an extreme fear of Vikings fans is losing a game because their coach is too afraid to go for a touchdown.

I will say that Mike Zimmer is sporadic with his decisions when it comes to stuff like this. Sometimes he's the most aggressive coach in the world. Other times he'll kick a 24-yard field goal. And this was a criticism coming out of the game against Tampa Bay, coincidentally with the Vikings, is that they kept kicking field goals and missing them, but they kept settling for field goals over and over in that game, and I think what becomes very clear is if you're going to beat the best quarterbacks, you can't settle for field

goals, and there's now become, I think, only a handful of situations where you actually kick a field goal. field goals and there's now become I think only a handful of situations where you actually kick a field goal if it is fourth and 18 from the 30 yard line okay yeah you want to do it but if it's fourth and five and you're inside the other team's 30 yard line there's almost no reason if you're playing another good quarterback because they're probably going to score on you even good defenses like today I mean the Green Bay Packers in the second half of the season were a good defense and they get shredded at different times by tom brady at other times brady tried to keep him in the game but for the most part he got them way ahead by being

the great tom brady and you can't give them field goals and i mean i saw that some people put out the numbers that said hey you know maybe it's a kind of a 50-50 shot there for whether you go for it or not. But are you factoring Aaron Rodgers? Are you factoring how special he is? Are you factoring Tom Brady on the other side that he's not going to give you that ball back? There's a reason the guy is the winningest quarterback of all time. He's not giving you the ball back. You're not getting another shot when you open the door.

So I think that one of the themes of the playoffs as a whole i think we've talked about it every week paul is that the the coaches who made conservative decisions and this includes buffalo kicking a field goal when they're down what was it 15 or down 12 to go down nine and then immediately kansas city just floors it right down the field and scores again if you make decisions to kick field goals in the red zone or to teams don't punt as much anymore, but they still seem to kick the conservative field goals, you get beat. I think that's just kind of if you're taking the points, then you're losing the game a lot of times. Yeah, I felt like we took one step forward, two steps back.

Obviously, last week, Andy Reid with the play that everyone marveled the fourth and one they go for it they win it feels like finally the the analytics wave the go for it on fourth and down don't punt don't give the ball back we're here uh i guess we're not we're not quite there yet because coaches that you know people thought were pretty innovative and are pretty at the top of their game decided not to do it. And that's a theme we've seen in the playoffs. It's not just the bad teams deciding to do it. It's the Titans deciding to do it, and they're in the playoffs. It's the Packers deciding to do it today. It's the Bills deciding to do it today. And it's teams with really good offenses that are still deciding to do it, even though they have top- tier talents at quarterback,

at wide receiver to give the ball to in those situations. And it just shows, I think, when the playoffs hit and everything becomes so much more important, people kind of turtle a little bit. And that's probably not what they should be doing, but it's human nature and it is what is happening. And it's apparently the best and greatest coaches are the ones that aren't going to do it like Andy Reid and they're in the Super Bowl and it's one of many many reasons that they're in the Super Bowl and we'll get to a lot of them today but yeah it's it's it's just weird to see it happen every week where it feels like we're learning the same lesson every week but they're not listening apparently apparently. And it's not getting better. And, again, we're not the ones making those choices.

We're not the ones with potentially getting fired or just having shit come down on us if we get it wrong. But it just keeps happening. I can't imagine being Aaron Rodgers in that spot and thinking, you know, there is a possibility that I never play for the Packers again, and you let somebody else stand on the field at the end of the game. I mean, you put the game in the defense's hands to get a stop there, and with the clock, I get it. You had four stoppages, but it's Tom Brady.

You're not getting it. And that's what is amazing to me. I mean, remember the resentment for Pete Carroll that the Seattle Seahawks had after Marshawn Lynch didn't get the ball. to me. I mean, remember the resentment for Pete Carroll that the Seattle Seahawks had after Marshawn Lynch didn't get the ball. It kind of reminded me of that, where they threw the interception, which is not a generally terrible play to throw at the goal line. Most quarterbacks don't throw red zone interceptions, but it was so obvious watching the game. Marshawn Lynch was dominating. He was their best player that year. He was unstoppable. unstoppable he had just I think uh had a big run

to get them down to the goal line and you take the ball out of his hands and it seemed like they never really recovered from that they haven't been back and I remember I think Russell Wilson had a bunch of players go on like a retreat to talk it out or whatever it was that devastating for them I wonder if it's that way for Aaron Rodgers. I wonder if he struggles to get over it. And I also, the way that he was talking at the end, really wonder about his future because in his post-game press conference, he said some interesting things about there being finality to this. And so you wonder, a $37 million cap hit for Aaron Rodgers, and I think they're 25 mil over the salary cap for next year they really had all the chips in the middle of the table and it's still it's funny

because you couldn't quite score enough points and the thing that everybody criticized you for was hey you never really found another receiver outside of Devontae Adams and the Bucs did a good job against Devontae Adams today. Same with Kansas City and Stephon Diggs. This happens a lot when teams rely on one wide receiver. Now, the Bills have other weapons, but Diggs is like the offense. When they rely on one wide receiver, a lot of times in a specific game, you can slow that person down just enough.

And that's exactly what we saw here today. And that's why with the Vikings, you're like, you know, you have two of them. You know, you're one of the very few teams that has two of them. So don't forget that when you're in shootouts and things like that or early in games when you're trying to get ahead. So, you know, that is another storyline that is instantly created is how upset is Rodgers that the ball was taken out of his hands at the end of the game and he never got a chance he never got a chance to even try to play hero and tie that game up and that would be if I were him that would be very very difficult for me to forgive yeah and Matt LaFleur after the game made um like it was was no question. He wanted him back. He said, I hope he's back.

He better be back. Like, we want him back. And so I think if it were to happen, it would come on Rodgers' side. And I guess he can be mad at this result and what happened today. But just last week, we were talking about, like, his comments and how happy he seemed there and how much he was enjoying the team. Obviously, that's when they're winning and they have a shot to go to the Super Bowl. But I'd be surprised if he's not back with the Packers and just,

he's been obviously with him the whole, their whole career. Yeah. They have Jordan Love, but I think Matt LaFleur didn't think Rodgers was going to be able to play as great as he did this season. And I don't think that's a knock that now he can't come back because that happens. I think LaFleur is allowed to reconsider just because he drafted Jordan Love doesn't mean he needs to compound that mistake and get Aaron Rogers out

of town. Like if he, if Aaron Rogers is going to play like he did this year or even 80% of it, like you don't get rid of him regardless of the situation. So yeah, I hope he, I hope he comes back just for the sake of that's a really fun offense to watch with him in it. And he's a great player. But yeah,

this kind of transitions into one of my questions, which was this Rogers, like last great shot at a Superbowl. Like, do you think he, like, was this the last shot for him? I had probably declared that last year. So I don't want to say for sure, because I also would not have projected five years ago that we would still be seeing Tom Brady in Super Bowls at age 43. I guess he'll stop making the Super Bowl when he retires and he's wearing the gold jacket. In fact, this does set up for the potential of the John Elway, the Peyton Manning, win the Super Bowl, retire, and just ride off into the sunset for Tom Brady.

I don't know if you can expect that or not. He just seems like he can keep playing at a really high level. But, you know, with Rodgers, it's the same sort of thing. I did not expect him to play at an MVP level. I always thought he would be good, but I never thought, oh wow, he's going to take the next step in this offense, and then all of a sudden they're going to be the number one scoring team in the entire NFL. I didn't have that projected as this year. I thought they would be more like a 10-6 team and not a 13-3 team, but maybe we were all a year ahead with Packer

regression, because when you look at that salary cap situation, you go, man, I thought the Vikings were in tough. The Packers are in way tougher. And the only way they can get out of it is either to get rid of Rodgers or to extend him or restructure or whatever his contract to lower his cap hit. Now that could very well happen that they figure it out. They lower his cap hit by $10 million. And then all of a sudden they're sort of,

you know, back in a reasonable shape and they can cut a few players or whatever, but you know, they just signed David Bakhtiari to a gigantic contract extension that puts them in a pretty tough spot. And today they really did miss him. The edge rushers did a great job from Tampa Bay getting after Rogers, but you know, I don't, I don't see it. I mean, really did miss him. The edge rushers did a great job from Tampa Bay getting after Rodgers. But,

you know, I don't see it. I mean, you never want to bet against any of these guys. I just don't see it. I don't see them getting back to where they were this year to be the number one offense. I do think offense year to year is more projectable than defense but being number one that takes a lot of things going right for you it takes a schedule a lot of times um that's as favorable it takes health that's favorable like Devontae Adams played 14 games um Aaron Jones played most of the season if not the whole season I think he may have missed the Vikings game but other than that I think he played most of the year so you know until the end David Bakhtiari was healthy. It's just, it's one of those things that's hard to repeat.

And at some point, everybody does slip a bit. Rodgers didn't look like he was falling off completely. But it's just, that's hard to see, to put together another MVP season. The only thing is, if he stays in the NFC, I mean, look around at the NFC quarterbacks. I mean, you have Stafford, who's probably going to leave the NFC. Matt Ryan might leave the NFC. Drew Brees looks like he's going to retire. I mean, Jimmy Garoppolo, who knows?

He might get traded to like Houston or something. You have Kyler Murray, who's an ascending player, but I'm not ready to say he's a star yet. Russell Wilson, whose team is not very good at managing stuff and doing things so um aside from you know they got him some weapons finally but are you terrified of seattle probably not so a reason to come back to green bay to work out the contract for aaron rogers is yeah you have a shot to do this again i would not bet on it, but with the NFC kind of up in the air with a lot of team situations and there is not a Mahomes otherwise than Aaron Rodgers in the NFC,

I mean, I think it's possible they get back. I just would not bet on it. Yeah, I think I'm a little bit more bullish on their potential success. I guess maybe this isn't a great argument, but until Aaron Rodgers falls off, it's kind of like the Tom Brady thing. Like until I see it with my eyes, like I'm, I can't pick against him. I can't like go against him. Like we've seen it with Brady too many times. Like we thought it was happening with Rodgers and then he had this type of year and you, you took my point. I was going to point out the NFC like it's just not a murderer's row

like the AFC is you don't have to go through Patrick Mahomes or Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson or Cleveland or any of those teams that are there like the NFC is right for the pickings like if Tom Brady like I'm assuming Tom Brady comes back because he just has seemed like he's never going to stop playing but that's going to be a team you watch for. But then, yeah, Drew Brees leaving, like maybe they're better without Drew Brees, but I don't know. You could see them having regression. The NFC West is going to kind of like cannibalize themselves, I feel like, for years to come with just, I don't think San Francisco is going to be as bad as they were last year. And then you still have the Rams, you still have the Seahawks, you still have the Cardinals. So all those teams are going to be good the NFC East I don't think we can give the benefit

of the doubt to any of those teams until they show that they have any sort of stability so when I'm looking around I'm saying I mean why not the Packers why not if Aaron Rodgers comes back and he continues to play at 80 percent of what he just played at, like, why they have as good a shot as any team to be there again, and if you just, like, last season, last offseason, they didn't do anything to help him, and yeah, they might not have the cap space, but if they can at least draft some players that could, like, start on your team, that would be an improvement from this year, and if they just put any sort of ounce of their resources to immediately winning instead of preparing for the Jordan Love era, I don't see why they can't be, again, a good team.

And with all those divisions kind of like cannibalizing themselves and the NFC West and the NFC South being up and down, there's only one bye team now, and that's going to be a big thing. And the NFC North might not be that great. These other divisions might be. And they could reasonably maybe get the bye again. And then you never know. You only have to win another game to get where they were today or two games to get to the

Super Bowl. So I think I'm a little bit more bullish on what they could potentially do. So I guess that's answering one of my questions for you, which was who gets to the NFC Championship first, the Vikings or the Packers in the future? And I guess your answer is the Packers. And I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I mean, look, I don't think the Vikings are a hop, skip and a jump away from an NFC championship game for next year. Now there is so much to go in this offseason though I mean we don't know who's playing quarterback for half the teams in the NFL right now with Matt Stafford wanting to leave for Deshaun

Watson wanting to leave and you know they might both end up in the AFC but we don't know how the draft is playing out we don't know how free agency is playing out the cap is a mess for a lot of teams so there's so much to go so much to change but if you project forward and you say okay let's say rogers comes back and he is 80 of himself and they end up with like a four seed and get eliminated in the second round or something i mean that seems like a more if you were just putting your like percentages on or your let's say you had a hundred dollars to bet on different results for the packers you were just putting your percentages on, or let's say you had $100 to bet on different results for the Packers, you're not putting most of it on NFC Championship game again next year.

You're probably putting it on makes the playoffs, loses in the divisional round, because they won't be as strong of a team as they are right now, even if they draft a wide receiver. But when you draft badly, like taking a backup quarterback late in the first round and taking a running back in the second round that you don't use that much when you do that it doesn't hit you that year it hits you in the future and that's where it's hit the Vikings the 2016 draft didn't

hit the Vikings really until this year when they looked around and went oh yeah we had zero hits from that draft so we have nobody left and now And now we have undrafted free agents playing key spots because of that. And I think that that will happen to the Packers. I mean, it doesn't mean the Vikings are going to get there, but I probably would say it's a coin flip between these two teams. And the emergence of Jefferson and the situation in the NFC North, I mean, we don't know who the Bears quarterback is, by the way. I say coin flip between the two teams for who gets back to an NFC championship.

Yeah, and I think where I'm coming with the Packers thing is when you look around the NFC and you see all those question marks, like you can see high variance for the Packers. You can see high variance for the Vikings. You can see high variance for pretty much any team in the conference. So then I'm going to look at who has an MVP quarterback like Aaron Rodgers, who has one of the best quarterbacks of all time. And then that's the, that's the team I'm just going to go for because that's just historically what

you can look at and say, that's going to be more repeatable. And that obviously is if you have one of the best quarterbacks, you have a better shot. So if I'm taking the Vikings and the Packers situations, yeah, the Packers kind of scared me. They could regress, but at the end of the day, I'm going to choose Aaron Rodgers and Devonta Adams over Kirk Cousins in the collection of weapons. And a struggling defense, the Packers defense, has some playmakers in the secondary, has a couple of guys up front that are nice. They're obviously going to have to lose some players in certain areas, but it really just comes down to they still have Aaron Rodgers,

and until he shows that he's going to fall off a cliff or he's not going to be the same quarterback that he was, I can't not pick them. Yeah, asked a little differently, it's more of, do you believe the Packers in the next like two years can get back or the Vikings for a while? I mean, I don't know anything about Jordan Love and how he looks as an NFL quarterback.

I don't think he's their number two, though, which should be a little concerning. And I didn't like him coming out of the draft. That doesn't mean that he won't be good. It just means that they picked kind of against history, picking a guy that didn't have good stats, hoping that he would end up being similar to Josh Allen, who, by the way, has one decent year, one good year, one very good year. And we'll see if he continues it, too. I think Bills fans are probably feeling like Vikings fans did in 2017. We'll be back next year. Maybe, maybe. AFC is going to be really tough, though.

So I guess I look at it that way. Like, can you keep Rodgers around and get it done in short order if you're the Packers? I'm not convinced of that. Or just, I think, the even long-term, maybe even beyond Kirk Cousins for the Vikings, because I think the Packers after Rodgers are going to find out what the rest of the world has been feeling for, oh, I don't know, the entire history of the National Football League. I mean, I guess some Packers, old school Packers fans who remember the Magic Man and the tough times of the 80s would probably be the last people to testify that sometimes it's not as easy as having Brett Favre and Aaron Rodgers. Let me ask you another question, then we'll get back to yours. If you could copy and paste something that is not Mahomes or Rodgers or Brady, okay, from teams that are making the Super Bowl here,

Kansas City and Tampa Bay, and paste it onto the Vikings, again, not Mahomes because everyone would do that, what would it be? Yeah, I was going to say the quarterbacks, like, not Mahomes, because everyone would do that, what would it be? Yeah, I was going to say the quarterbacks, like, duh. Yeah, that's why you have to say no, no, no, no, no. Obviously, I want the guys that are, like, throwing 50 yards downfield, like, when they're wrapped up in a tackle, or you can even see Josh Allen's, like, throw from the sideline right at the end of the game, where he launches it, like, 60 yards. Like, I'd probably take one of those guys or the greatest quarterback of all

time in Tom Brady. But if I wasn't going to take those, some of the, just some of the underlying things, like both teams have at least a good to great offensive line. Like in terms of PFF grades, they're, they're really good in the pass blocking range. The Chiefs weren't allowing really many pressures at all for Patrick Mahomes these last few games.

Bills got to him a little bit. But that's just, like, a small thing that you could take and try to put on the Vikings, and you could see their play being elevated because they need it. And Brady has Tristan Wirfs. He has Ali Marpet. He has Ryan Jensen. Like, he has all these guys that he can count on on the offensive line.

That would be one place I'd go. And then just, like he has all these guys that he can count on on the offensive line. That'd be one place I'd go. And then just like Travis Kelsey, like can the Vikings have Travis Kelsey, please? 13 catches, 118 yards, two touchdowns. Like that's who I'd want. And then I guess one other thing would just be the offensive play callers for either team. Eric Biennemi, obviously a lot of news. Some Vikings fans want him. Maybe if he doesn't go to a team this year, they can hope for next year,

just like they hoped last year, like they could get him this year. That'll just happen every year. And then Byron Leftwich for Tampa, all indications are he's a really bright mind. Tampa had some weird play calls, their insistence on rushing the ball. I don't know how much that's byron leftwich how much that's bruce arians but everything that we've learned about byron leftwich over the past two years is people really like him so those are that's an area i'd go because we don't know who's calling the plays for the vikings right now uh and both those play callers

really solid yeah no you're right about that um with tampa bay I do question them like you said on the early running downs to running backs that aren't that effective um Jones and Fournette are not two guys that are really scaring you and they seem to really enjoy running for like three yards early in that game and then here's Brady third and seven no problem third and ten no problem just completions because he's Tom Brady but I don't think that that's how you want it called when you have Kirk Cousins. But later in the game, it seemed like they did kind of go to the pass setting up the run after they hit on some big passes. And all year, they've probably been a little too run heavy early on first down. That's my only real criticism. I

mean, I agree with Kansas City's offense is so creative and fun. I mean, it's Mahomes. He'd be fine in any offense. He'd go to the Super Bowl in any offense. Anyone who's competent would be able to figure that out. But they just have so many ways to get playmakers the ball. And so I think that there's two things for me that I would take. Number one is the third and fourth wide receivers, 40-yard dashes. And I would pace those on to B.C. Johnson and Chad Beebe.

Look, those guys are not fast. They're not playmakers. They are replacement-level wide receivers who can do the job in a pinch and are NFL-caliber depth players, special teamers. But you look at the guy, Nicole Hardman, you know, he fumbles the punt. They give him the end around. He runs for 60 yards. He's so fast.

And Scotty Miller runs a 4-3. He's so fast. And so I think I would start there with who can you get that catches 20 balls a year and runs a couple of reverses but runs a 4-3 and all of those plays end up being explosive plays and big plays not hey can the guy run a quick little out route on third and five and get a pass for six yards like that's fine but the value of that is pretty limited especially when the guy can't step in for your top receiver I would definitely pace that the other thing is I would take the edge rushers from Tampa Bay.

And, I mean, Chris Jones, obviously not an edge rusher, but defensive linemen who are dangerous, scary people. Chris Jones dominated the game against Josh Allen. He was terrific getting after the passer. And Aaron Rodgers loves to roll out. Couldn't really roll out because Shaq Barrett and Jason Pierre-Paul kept sacking him and it was a it was a difference maker in the game the the key sack before the first end of the first half was huge then he is forced to be aggressive throws the interception which he usually doesn't

do but he was in a situation where it's whatever it was second or third and long and he's got to force the ball into a wide receiver there so those two things I think are not unattainable for the Vikings I mean these are within reach that could get them a lot closer if they get another edge rusher another interior defensive lineman who can get after the passer and then wide receivers with some freaking speed yeah and I mean speed isn't uh like a quantity that people are just starting to go after. Like it's a joke at the combine that the guy who runs a 4-3, who's going to be a third-round pick, suddenly is a first-round pick because he can run a 4-3.

Like NFL teams love to get the really speedy guy. The difference with the Chiefs is they know how to scheme it, so those guys aren't just running straight down the field and just being asked to try to go, go get the ball. Like they're putting the speed guys in a position to make the plays that Nicole Hardman's making to make the plays that Tyreek Hill is making. And that'd be a question I'd have if the Vikings had a speed guy is if they'd utilize him and change the playbook to where they're maximizing as much as they could get out of a speed guy.

Because we saw when like Percy Harvin was here, how much fun that Vikings offense was when they had someone like that. They just have to commit to using that guy like that and not just slotting him in the BC Johnson role, in the Chad Beebe role and say, okay, we'll just do what we've asked all third wide receivers to do. Like the thing that makes the Chiefs, the Chiefs is that not only do they have Patrick Mahomes, but they're putting, they're using all their best talents and being able to maximize those. And so the speed is great, but they're just finding the best ways to use it. And so

if the Vikings had it, they need to commit to doing that. I hope they would do that if they had someone like Tyreek Hill, someone like Nicole Hardman, it might be kind of undeniable, like Justin Jefferson was at one point, but yeah, can't go wrong with having speed, and as we saw, can't go wrong with having any sort of edge rush that can apply any sort of pressure, because, oh, the Vikings don't really have much of that. I want to remind you about our friends at SodaStick. If you use the promo code PURPLEINSIDER, you can get free shipping at SodaStick.com to get your original Minnesota sports-inspired goods. There's so many great designs, including Chuck Foreman's Spin Doctor shirts,

Skull Hats, Straight Cash Homie shirts, and much, much more. And if you're a hockey fan without getting going soon, or a basketball fan, make sure you check out all sorts of great designs. Their apparel is screen printed here in Minnesota on super soft, super comfy shirts and hoodies. You will love it. That's SodaStick.com, S-O-T-A-S-T-I-C-K.com, original Minnesota sports inspired goods. Code Purple Insider for free shipping. I was going to make a point here, by the way, about your deep passing. Tom Brady this year in the regular season threw 91 passes over 20 yards,

which led the NFL. Kirk Cousins threw 65. You could probably, if you're talking about something you take from Tampa and the play calling, you could probably that gap a little I mean I know like I know I know everyone's reaction what they're going to say if they get a left guard I yeah I get you but you can run those deep shots of play actions on when first down when you have run or pass as an option not just third down so that's just a thought that you know if you maybe increase that by even half of what Tom Brady's were, if you could just push that a little bit closer in terms of those deep shots, Cousins is really good at throwing those balls. And we see from Brady, it's not like he has Josh Allen's arm these days, but he's got good touch and you can work the ball down the field, but you can't do

it with just two wide receivers. Scotty Miller goes deep. Even Tyler Johnson had a drop in that game, but he was open deep down the field, and the Vikings drafted a punt returner in the fifth round. And so if you're drafting punt returners and not people who can really make a difference in terms of playmakers and speed, well, then, you know, it gets a little harder to be able to do that on a consistent basis because everyone's going to be focusing on Thielen and Jefferson. Your next question, Paul. Well, I was just going to say Vikings fans probably, or Minnesota fans in general, are probably saying, we also want the Bucs drafting because two gophers on the Bucs, they'll never let, we'll never hear that down

because Tyler Johnson appears to be a big-time player. The Bucs, Antoine Winfield, he was out a little bit, obviously hobbled, and he didn't play, I don't believe. But, yeah, they probably enjoy the Tampa Bay drafting. Sean Murphy Bunting was a guy they took last year. Seemed to be a really nice player for them this year. So they seem to be pushing the right buttons. I don't want to get to my Matthew Stafford question yet,

so give me your third Brady question. Oh, okay, sure, sure, sure. So, uh all right well speaking of brady as we just were um the no debate right debate's over it's over sorry there's no more debating for a long time let's say you were a sports talk radio host and uh maybe even i'm guilty of this i tried to make it fun and like make it hey this is a cliche but let's talk about it anyway because it's sports radio. But if you were in the middle of June, say, there's nothing going on, just regular old baseball in the background, you'd pull it out.

Who's the best quarterback of all time? And then people would call in, oh, I think it's Montana. I think it's Roger Stalbeck. I think it's John Elway. And you'd have a grand old time because every person in the world who likes sports can talk about the best quarterback of all time. But I'm not sure we can debate it anymore because the one thing you had against Brady was, hey, he always had Belichick. And he deflated them footballs that one time, and there was some videotaping going on of practices way back in the early 2000s.

But now he's 43. He's gone to the Super Bowl with two different teams. Even if he loses the Super Bowl, he did it without Belichick. He did it with a good defense, not like a number one defense. He did it with a good offense, but it number one defense he did it with a good offense but it's not perfect as we were talking about with some of their play calling I I don't know I don't know how you argue with anybody else I mean the stat that popped up on TV was that this is his 14th championship Sunday in 21 seasons the NFL I mean I mean, excuse me? The Vikings have, what, three since 1990?

Yeah, 98. Yeah, right. No, four. Four since 1990 and, or, you know, 87 even, say. Like, however long you want to push it back. But why? Like, I don't know. I mean, yes, win-loss record does not entirely come down to the quarterback,

but with these two quarterbacks, it does. They've played with all sorts of different players. Tom Brady's had different offensive coordinators. He's had different receivers, different running backs, different offensive line, different defenses, and now different coaches, head coaches, and goes to the Super Bowl. I don't know any other thing Tom Brady would need to do to prove to us that he is indeed the best quarterback who has ever put on a helmet. Yeah, and I can't pretend to tell you I've watched many John Elway snaps or Roger Staubach

snaps. Like, growing up, Brady was the guy, and he's basically just been, like, he's been inevitable every year that I've been an NFL fan, a football fan. Like, he is always there. He has the 14 championship appearances. I believe I saw a stat that says he has, like, 18 playoff wins after the age of 35 or something absurd like that, and that's like more than any other active quarterback has, playoff victories at all or any quarterback. I forget the gravity of the stat, but it was insane just how much he has done at such a late age and to do it kind of in two different eras, right, when he was younger, then go through a little bit of a lull, and then do it again at his age

with obviously a lack of mobility for a lot of those years in New England, not great talent, and then he comes to a team loaded with talent, but in a year where he doesn't get to know them in the offseason, he doesn't have any of sort of those chemistry things that we know he loves to have, and still they're going to the Super Bowl with this team. And so he's always been the GOAT for me. This just reaffirmed it, canceled out one excuse they have about the Bill Belichick factor. But if you just watch Brady play for any of these past years, you couldn't say it's all Belichick.

Like, yes, okay, Matt Castle had the one year. Like, we get it. But he went 11-5. I mean, like, this is – Oh, sorry, Matt Castle had the one year. Like, we get it. Like, okay, they went. But he went 11-5. I mean, like. Oh, sorry, 11-5. Right, but that's the thing. Like, Matt Castle went 11-5 with an unbelievable team that went, what, 16-0 with Tom Brady.

It's like there is a pretty darn big difference between, like, 11-5 would be a kind of down year for Brady at his peak. And that's, like, Matt Castle having his best year goes 11 and 5 I think it tells you that there is a huge huge gap between the two sorry to jump on that one but I've heard that before of like hey you know if Matt Castle could go 11 and 5 like is 11 and 5 great maybe sorry I'm gonna I don't want to do it should I do it maybe the Vikings fans it is but not to Tom Brady and not to Patrick Mahomes and not to the real great quarterbacks in the league who have ever existed.

Sorry, 11-5 is not that great. So anyway, anyway, sorry, carry on. But, I mean, it's a great point that when you talk about greatest players, I know that win-loss record, again, is not everything. But that is everything, right? Winning is absolutely or should be absolutely everything. Having the 11th best offense in the NFL is not everything but that is everything right winning is absolutely or should be absolutely everything having the 11th best offense in the nfl is not everything winning is everything and getting to the super bowl is everything and this guy has done it more than

anybody else and just as an aside eli manning people are going to complain when he goes into the hall of fame well you didn't have this stat you didn't have this quarterback rate whatever else he beat this freaking guy twice in the super bowl if he goes in i Hall of Fame, well, he didn't have this stat, he didn't have this quarterback rate, whatever else. He beat this freaking guy twice in the Super Bowl. If he goes in, I'm not whining about it. Because you've got to respect winning. And no one should respect winning more than Vikings fans because their team doesn't do it. And so when you see someone do it at the highest level over and over and over again, you have to say, you are the greatest, man. I don't care what stats this guy or that guy put up.

You are the greatest man i don't care what stats this guy or that guy put up you are the greatest yeah and you can bring up the belichick thing but you can bring up any great player that's considered the best in any sport they haven't just done it alone like mj isn't just the only good player on the bulls like yes you can say oh well he had belichick oh he had randy moss oh he had rob gronkowski yeah but Joe Montana had like Jerry Rice like it doesn't matter what some like John Elway had great receivers like it doesn't really like that doesn't diminish what Brady did he has six Super Bowls he has a chance for seven over a 20-year span where he has just been great yes i get he hasn't been that great like this postseason in

particular he had three interceptions today but he did enough for them like yes they only beat washington with taylor heineke yes they beat the saints with a compromised breeze and yes it kind of felt like green bay beat themselves but tom brady was there for all of it and he was able to guide them through all those moments uh and it should justify his move to Tampa. It should justify his decision to want to branch out because now this conversation is pretty easy, and it really isn't a debate anymore, as you said. Okay, so I know you want to get to Matt Stafford, and by the way, if anybody's coming for Brady, though, it's the guy he's playing, Patrick Mahomes, because, oh, my gosh. When you watch him falling down, throw across his body, and it's a laser beam to Travis Kelsey,

and you watch him operate the offense, read defenses, move around, throw off balance, throw on balance perfectly. A dude drops a ball down the field, and this is a – I don't mean to go off about the Vikings here, but, like, somebody will drops a ball down the field and this is a I don't mean to go off about the Vikings here but like somebody will drop a pass for the Vikings you'd be like well you know that's just too tough to overcome kicker missed field goal or something and Mahomes like oh our guy dropped the ball here's the next one and you know and that's I guess part of I'd love to see the mentality of the Vikings change a little. Like, hey, you know, the Chiefs are without their superstar right tackle.

And Antoine Winfield Jr. is out today. And, like, people get hurt in football, and there's stuff you have to overcome. And you should expect your team to overcome it. Like, not always. Sometimes circumstances are tough. But you should put the bar there, not at Mahomes, but at, Hey, if you want to be a real winner, if you want to get somewhere back to the NFC championship, beyond that, expect your team to overcome stuff. And a lot of times what we get

is, and I don't mean this at really directed fans. I kind of mean it more at the team and like, well, you know, Daniel Hunter got hurt okay i mean yeah that was bad that was real bad but did that make you go seven to nine i don't know i mean that's that's tough sell for me no i was just gonna say this is probably not the week i'm gonna bag on the vikings or the vikings fans for either of those for those feelings because the teams that we're watching do it are with patrick mahomes who very well could become the greatest quarterback of all time at some point, and Tom Brady, the current greatest quarterback of all time. And then Aaron Rodgers is in the mix, and Josh Allen is in the mix,

who isn't that, but he was very good this year, better than Kirk Cousins, I would say. So in a lot of the weeks, yeah, you can overcome a lot of things. But you can overcome a ton if you have Patrick Mahomes. You can overcome a ton when you have Tom Brady. It doesn't dismiss a lot of times that we've used the excuses for the Vikings, but this isn't the week that I would go and say, well, the Chiefs overcame this because they have Patrick Mahomes. Yeah, well, no, and I get that, but I mean where's the where's the bar though right and so if you are paying your quarterback

like patrick holmes one of my favorite stats is that uh this year and next year patrick mahomes has a lower cap hit than kirk cousins so if you are paying those are your favorite stats i mean really though like think about that you're paying if that's your comment, oh, well, hey, look, Kirk Cousins, he can't overcome the stuff Mahomes can. Well, I get that. I get that. And there's only one Brady and there's only one Mahomes. But you're paying your guy like that.

And that's the problem. Like, that's the conundrum you've gotten yourself into. So all I can think of is sort of, well, how do the Vikings get to this point? And, no, I'm not saying you should go. I don't know. What did they go? I don't know if they lost their last game, but like my homes went 14 and one this year as a starter. I'm not expecting 14 and one from Kirk cousins. I am expecting them to make the moves and develop the players and all those things to get to a point where you don't lose one defensive end and say, well, yeah, what we're supposed to do? We lost one defensive end. Like, I mean, well, you've got to be stronger

than that though. Right. I mean, so I think that there are points there with being fair. Cause I know what you mean. I know what you mean. There's always the, what about my homes? And it isn't fair to put anybody up against my homes because he's on a different planet, but every team that was there today had something go awry for them that they had the strength of a roster. And the Bills maybe are a good example as the outlier team that did not have the all-time great quarterback. So they're the outlier team that has a quarterback on a rookie contract,

usually the way to get there. But look at them. They have a good defensive coach, a strong overall defense, good receivers, things like that. They can overcome things. That's my only point is sometimes I just get to, like, an edge with people telling me all the excuses for why they couldn't have been better.

It's like, well, okay. I mean, yeah, not that it's not true. Daniil Hunter definitely got hurt. But if you say it was completely unpreventable when you drafted Jalen Holmes and developed him and he got zero sacks and you drafted Jaleel Johnson and developed him and he got, what, one sack or something, I mean, it wasn't completely unpreventable. That's all.

That's all I'm saying. And I'll just back off the point now because I know people get upset about this one but it's there it's there when you watch the Super Bowl and I'm sorry so uh your question about me let me ask you real quick though um because I'm gonna let you pick this and I'm gonna save mine for probably right before the Super Bowl but what's your initial thought on who wins the Super Bowl uh the Chiefs for me. I thought Tampa played well, but Green Bay made some grave mistakes. Like we're harping on the field goal decision. How about not play single high with five seconds left in the first half and let up a dagger

touchdown that just is horrible going into the half. Like, don't do that. Like, Green Bay allowed, I think, like 22 pressures on Aaron Rodgers. Aaron Rodgers was able to escape that. Now that's saying something about Tampa. I think the Chiefs just feel inevitable to me. If Patrick Mahomes is healthy, if the foot, which didn't look to be bothering him, isn't bothering him in two weeks, which I can't imagine it is, if any concussion symptoms don't come back, he's in the game. There's no lead they can't overcome, no adversity they can't overcome. And they have Travis Kelsey.

They have Tyreek Hill. They just have everything that you'd want. And I get picking against Tom Brady is not a very good thing to do. And this is going to sound like I'm discounting them, but I just – they played Washington, they played the battered Saints, and I felt like Green Bay beat themselves. The Chiefs have looked dominant in their games when Patrick Mahomes has been out there, and I just can't, I can't go against Patrick Mahomes the way he's playing right now. I, yeah, I mean, I'll just say I'm leaning heavily in that direction. I guess I'll, you know,

right before the Super Bowl in two weeks. Really, NFL? Did you have to do this? And also, of course, there is the factor of Tom Brady playing it at home. If there was ever going to be a guy to play it at home, it would be Tom Brady in the time he goes to the Tampa Bay Bucs. But okay, on the matter of Matt Stafford. Yes, let's hit some NFC North news. Yeah. I assume you're just going to ask me where he's going to play? Well, I'm going to ask you where he's going's gonna play but I also want to know how much you think he improves some of these teams because Matthew Stafford has been one of those guys where at

first he's underrated then he is setting all these passing records so then he's overrated and he's got all the come from behind wins but that says a lot about where the team was and maybe where how his play was leading up into that. And he seems like just one of these cases where he's been in the league so long, but I can't tell if he's that great or not. Is he in basketball one of those good stats, bad team guys? Is he just going to do that thing? Or is he someone who can go to the playoffs and lead a team to to playoff success like obviously Detroit is not a good measuring stick for anyone and and so everyone every team seems to be fawning over Matt Stafford

and for a lot of teams it makes sense because they don't have very good quarterbacks but I'm just wondering is he a game changer so uh I'll quote Jay-Z, like, you love me, now you hate me, now you love me again, right? I mean, that's how Matt Stafford has, his career has been like, he's underrated, he's overrated. Wait, is he underrated? He's overrated. Wait, is it the Lions or is it Matt Stafford? Is he really a winner? I don't know, because they're bad. But I have before called him the most overrated quarterback, because it seems that he just gets excused for everything even when he does have a good year passing the football this year he was one of the bottom five in a clean pocket accuracy and it's just well you know it's the lions and i get that and there is some extreme

truth to when matt patricia is your coach but even when jim caldwell is their coach even when they have golden tate kenny galladay marvin jones a good offensive line at times even when Jim Caldwell is their coach, even when they have Golden Tate, Kenny Galladay, Marvin Jones, a good offensive line at times, even when he's had a good setup, it's still kind of the same results with him. And I think that him and Kirk Cousins are the same but different. They're the same in the way that they're right there as the 10th to 12th best quarterback in the league, which means there's a bunch of guys who are better than you. And he's very expensive. And he has fatal flaws kirk cousins fatal flaws as have been occasionally mentioned on the show you know

not necessarily mobility and not necessarily the the best arm strength to make off-platform throws not really creativity takes sacks fumbles a lot that kind of thing um where matt stafford throws a lot of interceptions, he gets sacked actually more than Kirk Cousins. And if I remember, it's kind of a wide margin. He gets sacked a ton because he tries to run around and make plays. And his accuracy is just inconsistent, where sometimes it's really good, and especially the big time throws. And sometimes it's like, where are we throwing that? And we've seen that as watching him play the Vikings for years where some days it's really good and he lights you up and other days it's kind of all over the place and sporadic but I will say that he one thing he

hasn't had is a great defense to work with I think maybe one time and he won 11 games with the Lions and this is where if you are the Denver Broncos to me are the favorite or the Indianapolis Colts. But if you're the Denver Broncos, George Payton would know Matt Stafford quite well, know how competitive he is, know about his strengths. They have good playmakers. They've got an ascending offensive line. They've got a good defense, a defensive coach.

That seems to make a lot of sense to me. But it's, yeah, he such a an odd thing that sort of surround him I I'm not even sure there's a historical comparison for Matt Stafford for someone who was with a team for so long didn't win a playoff game and yet was usually universally revered I mean when that thing comes out with Mike Sandoe every year when it puts out the quarterback tiers usually Kirk Cousins like a third tier quarterback and Matt Stafford will be first or second and like there isn't I did a huge look at this statistically and stats aren't everything so please don't remind me of that but um statistically they're supporting casts which I looked into

their receivers their offensive lines. You know, it was really like pick one, you know, either one. And the fourth quarter comebacks thing, great point. I mean, it's just that's not a particularly great stat. Fran Tarkenton doesn't have a lot of fourth quarter comebacks. You know why? It's winning all the time. That's probably why.

So anyway, yeah, it should be really interesting. But I think that if he goes to a team like Indy or like Denver, he makes them a competitor. I mean, because those teams have the supporting casts, defensively, offensive line-wise, running back, to make him really good. I think you're probably looking at, if he goes to one of those teams, like a 10-win type team that gets beat by Mahomes in the playoffs next year. But I think he can instantly make a team like that better or just as good as Phil Rivers had

them this year. Yeah, I would agree those are kind of the options, the ones with not large cap hit quarterbacks sitting in their room already, like Jimmy Garoppolo for the 49ers. That'll be another popular one that people throw out. They just want to see him in the Shanahan offense or maybe even in like with the Rams. There was that thing about McVay and Goff having a weird relationship, but it just seems much more likely that he's going to go to a team like Denver, which I would be in support of Vic Fangio, like you mentioned, defensive coach, but also was with the Bears. So he's also very familiar with Matt Stafford and what he can do. So that seems like a good fit.

They have KJ Hamler, Cortland Sutton, Jerry Judy. Like, if I would – I'm interested to see if the Lions are like an Adam Gase effect for Matt Stafford. If, like, he goes and he's immediately freed up because he is no longer in Detroit. He doesn't have to deal with all the things that have come come there and he can kind of just just play just not be like held back by his circumstances. And I think those two would be at least for us would make it very easy because he would

not be held back by his circumstances. And we could get a feel for if this guy who's going to be like one of the top passing leaders ever because of the era that he entered in and what he had, if he's actually a really good quarterback or if he's just all stats. Yeah. I'll do some more on this. Try to connect with someone who covers the Lions soon on this matter, especially maybe I'll wait to see if Stafford just gets traded this week. It sounds like they want to move pretty fast with this, but I think it's a great move for the lions. I really do. I mean, they have,

their roster is all the way down to the screws, basically with Marvin Jones and Kenny Galladay being free agents, they could try to throw a bunch of money at them and then get locked into those guys and have them in their thirties and hoping that two good receivers, but not elite wide receivers can kind of carry them still. But think about what the ceiling of the Lions is even with better coaching. It's probably like eight and eight. So their new general manager, Brad Holmes comes in and says, you know what?

Our quarterback is on the older side he's sort of proven what he can do he's valuable because we'll probably get a first round pick for him if not you know in multiple seconds or something like that and we can rebuild this team and draft a quarterback and I wonder if there's some Vikings fans who are jealous when they see hey you're going to bail on a quarterback who's basically like 500 guy for his career who couldn't really elevate his team even when they did have better supporting casts and when they weren't great they were not a playoff team i mean it sounds a little familiar i'm not saying it's completely because the vikings have more talent and probably by a lot than detroit had so it's's not a full tear it down to

the screws. But I imagine there are some people who would look at this and say, hmm, wonder if the Vikings did this. And I got a bunch of those messages on Twitter when people saw that the Stafford news came out. They jumped in my mentions and said, you know what the Vikings think about this with Kirk? And the answer is probably not. but it does sort of make you think like, what if they did this? And if, and if you're the Vikings and you're Vikings fans, you could look at this two ways. 2021 is better for you because there's two wins or should be just write those in. I mean, if they're starting Trey Lance or Ryan Fitzpatrick or Marcus Mariota or something like that, you should win two games there. However, 2022, 2023 and beyond, if they have a smart general manager who can rebuild it around a quarterback on a rookie contract, that might actually end up being harder for you. And they might be an ascending team in the NFC North. And you might be jealous. I don't know. I don't know. It's a hard spot for the Vikings.

But it also kind of says, look, Bears are a mess. Lions are going to be a mess. So find a way to get some playmakers here. And you have a good chance in the NFC next year. Like, I actually think that the 2021 outlook for the Vikings is very good because of the way the NFC and now the Detroit Lions are playing out here because if they draft Trey Lance he's not taking them to an NFC North title next year or even if they trade up and take Justin Fields or Zach Wilson like that's not happening with a rookie but they could end up with an Eagles type of situation where they're bad for

a year with Wentz and then they rebuild the roster. So, you know, there's a lot of pressure on 2021. I think even more is added that that's sort of a like, Hey, you don't even have to worry about the lion. So, you know, get it done because you've got two wins there. All right. I'm sweating football, Paul, so much football, my gosh, so much, so little, but so little left. little left well this is uh this has been really fun and i've had a great time breaking down the games with you for the playoffs i don't know what

your super bowl plans are but you shouldn't be having super bowl parties these days still so our super bowl party i am expecting will be after the game we'll do a podcast reaction then it's tradition um and we'll have we'll have a grand old time. And I'll try not to rant. We'll see. Yeah, we'll see. It's a good chance. It's a good chance. All right. Thanks for your time, Paul. This was fun. Yep.