Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Chris Trapasso talks Patrick Jones, Cam Bynum and the NFC draft picks that will shape the future

Episode Date: May 10, 2021

Matthew Coller and CBS Sports draft analyst Chris Trapasso break down two of the Vikings' middle-round draft picks that didn't get a whole lot of attention but Chris thinks they each have a chance to be hits. Plus was San Francisco right to take Trey Lance over Justin Fields? Will Kyle Pitts make Atlanta a true contender? Did Dallas make a mistake taking Micah Parsons? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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And Chris, all right, we're a little separated for the drafts, so we're going to look at some of the picks in the NFC. They're going to look at some of the picks in the NFC they're going to shape the future but I also wanted to circle back since we deep dived so much into the Vikings draft picks but had to kind of skim over some because there still were a lot of Vikings draft picks despite me losing the milkshake bet to you and and take a closer look at a couple. So you wanted to start with Patrick Jones. And I'm very interested in this one, Chris, because he was a guy that stood out a lot at the Senior Bowl to me. And I think that's one of the reasons the Vikings picked him. But there were some people that felt

like he was overdrafted a little. So let's talk about Patrick Jones. Yeah, he was one that I had circled that I knew that we didn't talk about last week. And I figured that you have made me, like I said, a quasi Vikings expert. So beyond just looking at the entire NFL and focusing on the Bills a little bit, being a Western New Yorker, I was definitely paying attention to these Vikings draft picks, like every single one, all 11, and was messaging you during the draft. And that was one that stood out to me because I think on the prospect, my podcast early on in January or something, we did like an edge rusher overview or like an intro. And Patrick Jones was one of the players that we talked about.

And I, I thought he was maybe a little bit overdrafted. I thought maybe fourth round was more of his range, but to get him at, at pick 90 overall in the third round, I don't think was crazy early. The only true concern I have with him there too, is that he didn't test very well at the pit pro day. He didn't go through the 40 yard dash or the three cone, but his vertical was in the 31st percentile. His broad jump was in the

ninth percentile among defensive ends. And there was some speculation that he was going to be someone that was a little smaller and had short arms. That wasn't the case. 6'4", 261, almost 33-inch arms. So to me, he has no major size concerns. The other slight worry is that I wrote in my scouting report for him that he has active hands, but they're not always effective. He looks like he's like, okay, I'm going to try a swipe move here and then rip underneath the right tackle, but there's not a lot of power to his hands. And the term heavy-handed, I wouldn't necessarily categorize him as that. But very productive at Pittsburgh.

I mean, 17 and a half sacks the last two seasons, 24 tackles for loss. So he and Rashad Weaver and Jalen Twyman, another Vikings pick, the last pick that they made, they were very good on that defensive line. So we were talking about leading up to this draft that the Vikings have a type, the bigger defensive ends, edge rushers that have NFL bodies, have good length. And ironically, a lot of the guys that I think that they've been chasing to find the next Danell Hunter weren't really productive, but had crazy traits. Patrick Jones, I think, is the Vikings going away from that trend a little bit in the third round and

saying, hey, this guy might not have all pro upside, but he shows a willingness to have a pass rushing plan. And if we can teach him to have a little more power, maybe gain some weight, play with lower pad level, he can be that situational like third or fourth pass rusher that you let just pin his ears back. Because I think that's when he's the most effective. like they always fall into two categories it's either one it's the Janaris Robinson who is super lanky has massive hands crazy long arms like he grew up under power lines or something but didn't have as much production and then they talk about luckily this year we didn't get the Daniil Hunter comparison and they moved away from that after calling DJ Wanham Daniil Hunter last year. So maybe we're just retiring that one for now.

But that's a type. The other type is this guy had a bunch of sacks in college. That would be your James Lynch, your Afadi Adenabo, and now your Patrick Jones. And I guess I'm a little bit skeptical of it because of the Pitt defensive line. We've talked about this with quarterbacks, and it's really hard to discern, hey, you know, who was really causing those sacks to happen? Like, was it the fact that they had Rashad Weaver, too? Was it the fact that they had Twyman in 2019, too? But I also think that if you're making a bet which one of those things translates better

for a middle-round round player if it is the production versus just traits with no production i would think that their production would translate better i mean do you have a take on that yeah definitely and i would agree with you especially like you were saying that the vikings have kind of retired the he's the next danelle hunter uh comparisons for any of these players that they picked. I think a mid-round guy, I'm fine with mixing it up like the Vikings did with Denarius Robinson and Patrick Jones. But I think if you come into the league,

quote unquote, refined and you know how, like, hey, I need to have a plan here to be, whether it's ACC offensive tackles or certainly NFL tackles. I think with the coaching and with Mike Zimmer in place, you raise your floor. I think Janarius Robinson could be super good, but there's also a chance that he's not on the Vikings in like two years. I don't think Patrick

Jones will be that case. I think the Vikings are good enough coaching up their defensive alignment, keeping them fresh, putting them in a position to maximize their talents. And like I said, Patrick Jones, not a great run defender and doesn't have crazy athleticism side to side, agility, explosion, but knows how to use his hands. I feel the same way about Jalen Twyman, that he, even as a sixth round pick, is not going to be out of the NFL in two years because a lot of the stuff that most defensive linemen don't come into the league with, and that is a pass rush move arsenal, those two Pitt defensive players have. So I think if you're going to go in the middle rounds, yeah, you can take a flyer on someone

who's an athlete, but I think high floor, that's Patrick Jones for sure. All right, let's talk about another one that you wanted to discuss, Cameron Bynum, a really interesting pick because he was listed by a lot of people as way down on the list, but I think everyone thought he was going to be a corner or a lot of people thought he was going to be a corner. You tell me if you thought that as well. He played some safety at the Senior Bowl and maybe that sort of signaled where he might end up but I really like this pick from the perspective of the character of the guy seems to be very high and I know that Mike Zimmer looks at the safety position as needing a highly intelligent player to be there especially when you're playing with Harrison Smith if that's what ultimately ends up happening at some point for Cameron Bynum and also he graded extremely high by PFF when it came to zone coverage as a corner.

And that's another thing that I think just takes IQ and instincts that would translate well from corner to safety. But I have to ask, I mean, we're always talking about this after a Vikings draft of, oh, it's a guy who's playing not his position from college. And so, I mean, how do you feel about that in general? Because I feel like it has not worked out super well for the Vikings in recent years to say, oh, James Lynch is actually a defensive tackle, or this guy's even has Ezra Cleveland, like he's a tackle.

Nope, now he's a guard. It feels like kind of doing that same thing, even though I think his skill set fits it. So the Vikings have come out and said that Cam Bynum is going to be a safety? Yep, yep. It feels like kind of doing that same thing, even though I think his skill set fits it. So the Vikings have come out and said that Cam Bynum is going to be a safety? Yep, yep. In fact, Rick Spielman announced him on the draft. Yeah, as a safety. I was doing the draft tracker.

I did not catch that. I mean, Rick Spielman and Mike Zimmer know way more about football than I do. I thought he was an outside corner all the way. And I agree with you on the zone capabilities of Cam Bynum. I thought his plant and drive on like an in-breaking route when he could just watch the eyes of the quarterback was like second or third round caliber, like very twitched up in that regard. I didn't see someone that was staying in phase with wide receivers down the field, like the sticky press man guy but I thought man someone that could watch the eyes of the quarterback and just follow routes that way

he could be a solid value selection in the middle of the draft another area that I really liked with Cam Bynum he was productive from his freshman season on I I mean, two interceptions, eight pass breakups in 2017 as a freshman, and then pretty much was a steady producer. Nine pass breakups in 2018, nine in 2019. Obviously only played four games in 2020, but still had two pass breakups and an interception. Finished with six picks in his career at Cal. So this is someone that didn't just light it up in his senior year

when he was 23 years old. He was producing when he was like 19 years old at Cal. So this is someone that didn't just light it up in his senior year when he was 23 years old. He was producing when he was like 19 years old at Cal. So I think it makes it a little more difficult projecting him out to safety because like you said, you know, at senior bowl played a little bit there. But I thought someone that, again, can play off coverage, press bail or just zone, can't buy them, you know, where they picked him in the middle of the draft, I thought that was good value. And we knew Mike Zimmer was going to pick a corner at some point. They have an infusion of young talent in that secondary, and then they have Patrick Peterson.

I thought at 125 overall, that was a very good pick for the Vikings. I didn't see him as a safety, but maybe the Vikings have different plans. But if you're going to play safety and be that playmaker next to Harrison Smith, I think Bynum has the skill set because of his twitchiness to backpedal, stop, and then accelerate forward is very, very good. So if you want him to just keep his eyes on the quarterback and make plays on the football as a safety, I guess he could ultimately transition. Like it wouldn't surprise me if he's pretty comfortable at the safety spot in the NFL. I think they probably looked at him and said,

we really like this football player, but a guy who runs a four or five eights just not going to work in Mike Zimmer's defense. I mean, you look at the players that they draft, I mean, okay. You know, Cam Dantzler, they never believed that that 40 was actually his real 40. And he ran faster at a sort of alleged pro day, I think, that on film they believed he was faster than that. But even then, you know, we still wondered about Dantzler with his speed a little bit, but I think he was a more talented overall corner. But I think that if you're asking somebody

to run down the field man-to-man coverage on a lot of top wide receivers, if they run a 4-5-8, that's just going to be pretty tough when a lot of wide receivers are running 4-4-4-3. Yeah, I mean, I don't think Cam Bynum has the coverage ability of Cam Dantzler. Like, just staying in phase. Like, we know what he did to Jamar Chase two years ago, and that he was very battle-tested in the SEC and held his own despite being kind of slow and then tall but with short arms. Cam Bynum, I didn't see him as that type of just natural coverage defender, but the traits are there. And at 125 overall, if it's

someone that has to be your safety or if you have injuries, you know he can play outside corner. And I mean mean we were talking about it with Patrick Jones and even Jalen Twyman and I always circle back to this with corners if you're really productive I think you're doing something right like there aren't a lot of corners that were like crazy productive in college with past breakups and interceptions that just like can never find the football in the NFL. I think in the fourth round, you see four years of steady production in a power five conference. The athleticism is good.

Not great. He had a three cone just under that seven second threshold, but you're right. He's not crazy fast. So maybe the Viking said, Hey, we kind of got someone of a unicorn with cam dancer that he's slower, but he can still handle the speed in the NFL. Maybe they didn't feel that way with Cam Bynum.

But it sounds like I'm a gigantic homer now, but I truly, just to kind of put a bow on this, really liked what the Vikings did. It starts with that Christian Darasau trade back in round one, Kellen Mond in round three. We talked about Serrat to turn that trade down into Wyatt Davis too. I thought it was kind of funny thinking about that could have been what the Jets ultimately decided to do, but instead they traded up for a guard.

And I think Elijah Vera Tucker is a better guard prospect than Wyatt Davis, but Wyatt Davis was my number two interior offensive lineman. So they didn't, and I mean, Vera Tucker was my number one. I didn't think there was a huge two-round gap between those two. And then some of these later picks, Janarius Robinson worth a flyer. Amir Marcet, I didn't love that pick, but it's in round five. It's 157 overall. And then Jalen Twyman, I wrote an article this past week for CBS Sports, like my favorite picks for all 32 teams.

And like I could have said Christian Darasau, that would have been kind of the low-hanging fruit. But at 199 overall, I really think Jalen Twyman on a team that needs a pass rusher on the interior was a really good selection. So the Vikings, among three or four other teams, I think had very strong drafts. Why do you think that Wyatt Davis ended up where he was? Because you are not the only person to say, hey, he was my second best guard or third best guard on the entire list.

And is that positional value or was it that his 2020 was just not as good as 2019? I think it was his 2020 and more specifically, the college football playoff wasn't as good. And when they were facing Christian Barmore and that Clemson defensive line, I think he didn't play up to snuff or what people thought from someone that, if you look back at mock drafts from last fall, like before the college football season started or as it was starting, it was like Wyatt Davis is like the only first-round guard. So for him to fall again to the third round,

I think to stay in the division a little bit, he's a similar player to Jonah Jackson, who the Lions, I believe, picked in the third or fourth round last year, and that's super balanced. Like with Wyatt Davis, you will not see him on the ground very often. He might get beat, but he has the recovery skills, and he's not going to be completely washed out of the play. So I really, above anything else, if you want just like a one-sentence scouting report,

I think his floor is high because his balance, which you're mostly thinking about in pass protection, is outstanding. So he's not a road grader. He's not the most athletic. I think he has just enough athleticism to hang at the guard spot in the NFL, but that balance was really what stood out to me and why I thought he should have been picked much earlier than pick, what, 86 overall. 86, yeah. Hey, everyone.

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Now, before the draft, you and I talked about Atlanta as a pivot point in the draft. If they draft a quarterback, then this is going to get really weird. If they don't, then there's going to be quarterbacks available. And ultimately, that's what played out with them picking Kyle Pitts. But he was at the top of my list for players that will shape the NFC in the future, not only just because he's really stupid, freakish talented, but also because they didn't draft a quarterback. So that kind of leaves the Atlanta Falcons saying, we're really all in on this Matt Ryan thing for the next maybe two years,

maybe three. I don't know how much longer Matt Ryan plans to play. But it's interesting that they now have this incredible group of weapons in an NFC South that's suddenly not as great. I mean, Tampa Bay is still a super stacked team. But aside from that, you go, I don't think New Orleans or Carolina is any good. So here the Falcons are with a chance to be very interesting because of this Kyle Pitts selection. Yeah, absolutely.

And I think whatever the Falcons record was last year, they had the fourth pick in the draft. I always like to look up after the season teams records in one-score games because we know that you almost always regress back to the mean. The Falcons went 2-8 in one-score games last year. So they're probably not going to be that bad, especially with Kyle Pitts. So I agree. I mean, maybe from a team-building perspective, long-term with a new GM,

picking a tight end, whether, I mean, you can call him a wide receiver, obviously, may not have been the best philosophy, but they still have Matt Ryan, who we know is that guy that just quietly throws for 4,000 yards every year and completes 65 percent of his passes I think it makes the Falcons a team that could go from having the fourth pick in the draft to being a serious playoff contender especially with the Carolina Panthers rebuilding and the Saints who knows what the Saints are going to look like I mean is it going to be Jameis Winston throwing a bunch of interceptions T Taysom Hill? I think they'll still be good, but you're right,

that that division is a lot more wide open, and I think the Falcons maybe felt that and said, hey, let's give it one more run having, outside of Tom Brady, the most senior quarterback in the division. Did you think that he was, Kyle Pitts, was the best non-quarterback in this draft? No, I didn't. Who did you think?

I thought it was Jalen Waddell. I get that that is a little bit out on a limb, but I think the injury sapped us, or his injury in October really stole from us what would have been a ridiculous season from Jalen Waddell. Devontae Smith would not have won the Heisman Trophy. They probably still would have won the national title, obviously. They would have been more loaded. But I just thought that from a traits perspective and speed, agility,

and ball skills for Jalen Waddell were absolutely through the roof. I thought Kyle Pitts was up there. He was certainly an elite prospect. I didn't really have any clear-cut knocks, but I thought and still believe that Wadddle can be that serious difference maker like from day one and then project out and be like an all pro just maybe a little bit more than Kyle Pitts now let me just I'm just going to go through the list here and throw this out to you and see what you think uh now Trey Lance and Justin Fields were obviously on our list. Those two guys clearly will shape the future because if they're hits, then their teams are going to be great.

I mean, because both have really high ceilings. And if they're misses, then we know what happens to those two franchises if they end up misses. What did you think of the decision to go with Lance instead of Fields at number three. Now, interestingly, Ryan Harris, who is a Denver radio host, but also former NFL player on the show the other day, said that Denver passed on Justin Fields because of the epilepsy issue, which I thought was interesting. Is that like mile high related? Like, is that have anything to do with the elevation there? It wouldn't have anything to do with that, I guess. I'm not a scientist, but I don't think so. I don't think so either. And I know that there have been other NFL players with epilepsy,

but I don't know a whole lot about it. So I do wonder if other teams were concerned about that. Also, I wonder like, all right, who leaked it? You know, who put that out there? Or maybe everybody already knew about it. I don't know. But Trey Lance over Justin Fields is one that I'm going to continue to go back to over and over. Like you made the right pick in terms of getting the great, great athlete, but did you think that that was the right decision to go with Lance instead of Fields? No, I didn't. I had Justin Fields graded higher.

I mean, as we got closer to the draft, we kind of knew it was either going to be Mack Jones or Trey Lance. It was similar. And I think we talked about it previously that it was for the Jets, just all of a sudden, everyone just knew that they were going to pick Zach Wilson. There was no debate at all. And it kind of happened the same with the 49ers after they traded up to number three overall. It's like, why isn't Justin Fields being considered here? The reason why I don't think it makes a lot of sense is that with Trey Lance, his upside is, I don't know, say it's even Hall of Fame worthy.

And the reasons why are arm talent, athleticism, and I guess those are the two main ones. Justin Fields has crazy arm talent, and he is an insane athlete. I think Trey Lance is more of a gamble because you know that you have to develop him, and you have to say, okay, not only were you only 19 in your one year as a starter, it was at the FCS level. There are clear misfires on film where you're like, okay, that sailed into the third row, or that should have been a pick in that season where he didn't have any interceptions,

but it was dropped because that guy is going to be selling insurance or is selling insurance now. With Justin Fields, gives you almost the exact type of stuff that you can have with Trey Lance. Kyle Shanahan's a little bit hinted at like, oh, we can do so many different things with the design run game for our quarterback with Trey Lance. You can do that with Justin Fields too. And he has two years of a big sample size in a power five school with accuracy. And I thought, which was the kind of differentiator

between Justin Fields and Zach Wilson, that he wants to like lean on his legs in those pressure situations. Maybe Kyle Shanahan said, hey, like with Trey Lance, this is more of a ball of clay that we can mold and kind of teach him what to do and what not to do. But I thought ultimately, although even two or three weeks before the draft, no one was talking about the 49ers potentially picking Justin Fields. That would have been the smarter choice because he gives you everything that Trey Lance gives

you, but you know a little more about who he is as a quarterback today. There's less projection. And even if someone absolutely loves Trey Lance and wasn't so hot on Justin Fields, they would have to agree that Justin Fields is way more of an accurate thrower right now. Like there's no question about that. So maybe long-term the 49ers feel like Lance has a higher ceiling. I think Justin Fields has a very high ceiling too. I like to think about these things in terms of percentiles to sort of explain for floor and ceiling, but also like medium outcome median outcome 50th percentile matters to me a lot and i think with justin fields 50th percentile is probably a

good nfl quarterback probably somebody that you can win with i think that his floor is extremely high because of his athleticism because of his background and his statistics that he's put up i know that there are other ohio State quarterbacks who have put up statistics, but not in the same way that he did, right, that Dwayne Haskins, everyone was concerned about the under routes and the short throws. That's not Justin Fields if you watch it for two seconds. And also, Haskins was not even a better athlete than Kirk Cousins. I mean, Justin Fields is a special type of athlete,

and that to me gives him, even if he hits the median, then he's very good. If he hits the top, then he's a franchise changing, going to the Super Bowl level quarterback. And I think that maybe the 90th percentile is similar with Trey Lance. But the 50th on Trey Lance might be like backup quarterback. He has to hit that top 25 percent of outcomes for him to succeed and be really good. It's kind of the way that I've been looking at it. Yeah, I'm glad that you brought that up because like, I mean, just reflecting on the draft, like I've been saying, no one was talking about this leading up to the draft or after.

Like, oh, did they make the right choice? Was it Trey Lance or Mac Jones? Like, what about Justin Fields? I mean, just because he went 11th overall, we've seen really good quarterbacks fall in the past. Patrick Mahomes, Deshaun Watson going, you know, later than people thought, especially Deshaun Watson, who I think Justin Fields is very similar to on the field.

So yeah, I think ultimately, although we weren't expecting Justin Fields, that would have been the correct choice for the 49ers. All right. Next one on the list, and I'm kind of going out of order if you already read the article on the website, but Rondale Moore I wanted to get your take on going to Arizona. He was projected by many as a first-rounder. He ends up as a second-rounder.

Arizona picked a linebacker in the first round. So weird. Yeah, okay. Extremely weird. I'm glad you said it that bluntly because i just i don't really get it guys i mean your fate is going to rest on that little quarterback being great and that's it and you're picking linebackers i don't know but um they made some good signings on defense in the offseason which made me think that getting malcolm butler and jj watt that they would focus their draft on helping Kyler Murray, and then they pick a linebacker. I just don't really

get it. But in the second round, they land Rondell Moore, who I thought was tons of fun to watch. And as explosive and lightning quick as he looks, he had the numbers to back that up at his pro day. I don't like anyone getting compared to Steve Smith. I think that's just unfair. Don't put that on anybody. That's a completely unique player. But I do think that if Cliff Kingsbury uses Rondell Moore correctly and pairing him with DeAndre Hopkins, that can be pretty dangerous. So it's kind of like Cliff and Kyler.

If you can't do it with these guys in this setup, then you two probably aren't going forward. And I think I know which one gets fired first, right? It's always the coach. Yeah, I agree with that. I loved Rondell Moore as a prospect. He was inside my top 25, like you said. He was fun to watch, the explosion, breaking out as an 18-year-old in that true freshman season was special. A lot of injuries since then. The only thing I'm a little concerned about,

and this will be the ultimate litmus test for Cliff Kingsbury in what I think is a make-or-break season. If they don't either make the playoffs or maybe even win a game in the playoffs, I think you need to start from scratch almost. Maybe not with Tyler Murray, but with your head coach, if you're the Arizona Cardinals, is they drafted Andy Isabella two years ago in the second round, and he was not as dynamic on film as Rondell Moore, but super fast,

like crazy fast, ran in the 4-3s at the Combine in 2019, and it was like, hey, this is not just a bubble screen guy. He can truly threaten defenses. And weirdly cliff Kingsbury being like, I think one of the youngest coaches in the league when he was named the head coach of the Cardinals, like sounded like an old head coach with Andy Isabel. He's like,

Oh, well we need to kind of, you know, let him learn the offense. And he's a first year guy. And they're like rolling out Christian Kirk and stuff. Who's been nothing since they drafted him in the slot so I it's either Cliff Kingsbury learned from that and it's like hey we love Larry Fitzgerald but we're going to stop pumping him like eight bubble screens a game and we're going to start featuring these talented

guys who were meant to be in my air raid offense that is so spread out or he's kind of weirdly like old and curmudgeon-y and like wants to get the ball to DeAndre Hopkins obviously and is a little bit leery to like feature a rookie early in his career so I think watching what Rondell Moore like his usage I think will be the ultimate likemus test. If they're using him a lot, I think he'll be good because he is that dynamic. Contact balance is amazing. He was three inches shorter than Jalen Waddell but weighed one pound heavier than him, so that's how compact of a wide receiver he is. So I have no concerns about the talent and, theoretically, the fit in that air raid offense

with DeAndre Hopkins drawing a lot of attention. But if you keep seeing Larry Fitzgerald getting the football a lot, Christian Kirk getting the football, a lot of throws to running backs, then I think it could be similar to what we've seen with, I think, a very talented player in Andy Isabel not living up to expectations when they're on that cheap rookie deal. I think that with college coaches going to the nfl they just lack a level of detail and and and adaptation they put in their system and they say this is our system and this is

how it's going to work and i think we saw it with carolina where joe brady early in the season everyone's going whoa joe brady his offense look at it and by the end of the season every defense knew everything that was coming and the same thing really has happened with Arizona, where early on maybe we saw some flashes of exciting things that Kingsbury could do. But he also lined up DeAndre Hopkins in the same position like 90% of the time. I mean, who does that? No one in the NFL does that. Adam Phelan moves all over, Justin Jefferson, Stephon Dix,

all the great receivers move all over. And here's DeAndre Hopkins like he's Michael Irvin lining up in the same spot over and over and over again. You know what's funny about that too, to kind of further that point, is that what, two or three years ago, the latest trend was the air raid coming to the NFL. That Jared Goff was from an air raid system, Baker Mayfield was from an air raid system, and Tyler Murray.

And it was like, no, this is not the Wildcat. This is not the RPO game. Like, this is going to, like, fundamentally change the NFL. And, yes, like, offense is up, passing is up. But like you're saying with Joe Brady and what we've seen with the Cardinals, I personally think that being a number one overall pick, like Kyler Murray has been kind of disappointing. Like, he's put up decent stats.

I think a lot of them are similar to the Kirk Cousins 300-yard games where they're losing and there's a lot of fourth quarter, you know, 200-yard fourth quarters from him. And with how much hype there was for Kyler Murray, the air raid's kind of the same thing where it's like this five wide and just, you know, five verticals on every play. Defenses have been able to maybe not completely slow it down, but it hasn't led to the NFL turning into the Big 12. So, again, going into year three with Cliff Kingsbury, he not only needs to, on a micro level, feature Rondale Moore

and DeAndre Hopkins as younger players, guys who I think have, you know, the ability to be really, really good, but also tweak your offense a little bit. Don't line up DeAndre Hopkins in the same position every single game when really a lot of the good receivers are playing in the slot. They're moving around. They're motioning. So it will be interesting to see not just with Rondell Moore, but Cliff Kingsbury too

in this make or break season. If you put the same concepts on tape for a couple weeks in a row, defenses will be ready for it when they game plan. I mean, that's the NFL. They have all day to work on it. They'll figure it out. They'll put in rules. They'll put in adjustments just for you to be ready. And the most telling stat to me for scheme, and I know that this is a quarterback stat, but it's also a scheme stat, is how teams and quarterbacks perform when throwing in the intermediate. Because I look at someone like Cousins and I say, like, there's nothing super insanely special about his throws from 10 to 19. I mean, he's not like Drew Brees or something where he just is throwing

insanely accurate passes, but he's booting out all the time, right? And they're running play actions and they're getting guys open from 10 to 19 yards and he's completing a bunch of easy passes to open receivers that way and you see that from golf you see that from garoppolo and they even got mitch trubisky doing it last year with running you know play actions and stuff and here's kyler murray with like a 70 quarterback rating when he's doing throws that really should be schemed open for him. And I think that that points really directly to Cliff Kingsbury not being up for this. So he's got to take a step up if he's going to be better. And I think that Rondell Moore kind of plays into that quite a bit. The other one other guy I want to ask you about that we just didn't

talk a ton about is Dallas going with Micah Parsons. Because the way that I look at this, Chris, is if Dallas' defense is even average, they should actually be good. We've kind of not really talked about them as a NFC contender, but with Dak coming back, if he's playing a full season, with the weapons they've put together, and their defense is even okay going forward, I mean, they could be very good for a long time, I think. Yeah, I didn't really understand that pick.

And I don't know if I said it on this podcast or my own, that I'd gotten to the point and everything is a moving target with the NFL, with the draft, like philosophies, what you should do, like when you shouldn't pick this type of player. I came into the 2021 draft season very much soured on the idea of picking a linebacker, even in the first round, which has certainly not even gotten to the point of the conversation with the running backs, and we still saw two running backs go in the first round. If you look back at the history, first-round linebackers, even in the last five to ten years,

very few of them, since Luke Kuechly, have hit. Roquan Smith of the Bears has been pretty good. Tremaine Edmonds in Buffalo, he's good. He's not great. I think Matt Milano is clearly the better linebacker. And it just felt like for the Cowboys to pick Micah Parsons, who's played two seasons at the college level, not a lot of coverage production, like was not a coverage player whatsoever. He was a hand-in-the-dirt edge rusher mostly or a quarterback spy on third downs.

When you have Leighton Vander Esch, when you signed Jalen Smith to a big extension, and they're good linebackers. They're not amazing. Just seemed like, again, a weird allocation of a first-round pick, and there's a difference. This is like a new kind of topic that I've brought up since the draft. There's two ways to look at it, and I think a lot of college coaches, to kind of jump to a different team quickly, like Urban Meyer.

There's a difference between drafting good players, and I think maybe in Urban Meyer's case it was just almost like recruiting. Like, we need Travis Etienne. He's a difference between drafting good players, and I think maybe in Urban Meyer's case, it was just almost like recruiting. We need Travis Etienne. He's a good player. Micah Parsons, good football player, but you don't pick them that early. You don't pick a running back or a non-coverage specialist at the linebacker spot at 12 overall, even after you trade back. So I think there's a difference between getting good players and having the correct team building philosophy. The Cowboys would have been much better off going corner, maybe even adding some youth to the offensive line or edge rushers more

valuable. I don't know if there was really someone there at 12 then picking a line backer when they have linebackers and even if they invested a first-round pick in Leighton Van Der Esch, a second-round pick in Jalen Smith, and even with those two on the field, and I know they haven't been on the field a ton together because Leighton Van Der Esch has been injured a fair amount, but the defense wasn't that good when those two were on the field together.

So I think if you have a really, really good linebacker, which fortunately for the Vikings, they do in Eric Hendricks and Anthony Barr, that can really move the needle. But it is so significantly hard to find a legitimate three down linebacker that is like someone that's not being like targeted by the opposing offense. Like, Hey,

there's Jalen Smith. Let's get our tight end out on him because we know he's a great run defender, but he can't really cover. So that early in the first round, top half, I did not like that pick. I didn't hate Micah Parsons as a prospect, but I wouldn't have picked him at 12, and I just wouldn't have picked a linebacker there at all. Hey, everyone. I want to tell you about our friends at Scout Logistics.

And I really do mean it when I say friends. They are fans of Purple Insider over at Scout Logistics. And since they reached out wanting to support this show, I want to tell you about what they do. Scout Logistics is just-in-time transportation for full tractor-trailer loads. And if you're wondering what that means exactly, well, if you own or work for a company that needs shipping solutions, they are the preferred carrier of Fortune 500 companies across North America. And we have quite a few of those in Minnesota, right? They can ship perishable,

non-perishable, FTL or LTL, and they have on-time delivery rate of over 99%. So if you're like them and you enjoy the show and you have shipping needs, check out scoutlogistics.com or call 855-217-2688 extension 232 to connect with them directly to find out how Scout Logistics can minimize risk and overperform and go the extra mile for your company. And I think the value if you hit on one of the five best linebackers in the league is extremely high, but it's also extremely rare. I mean, it's kind of like Kyle Pitts, where if you have one of the top five tight ends in the league,

the drop-off from the fifth best tight end to the seventh or eighth is massive, and that's probably the same thing with linebacker, but it's also really hard hard to have that happen maybe Pitts ends up being different because he's kind of a hybrid but you know Micah Parsons is not like an Eric Hendricks he's not exactly like a Luke Keekly at least who he is right now and that's what they'll ask him to be and and so yeah for and especially first year for these linebackers their heads are usually spinning from what we saw Like Isaiah Simmons couldn't get himself on the field last year for a lot of None of the first round linebackers were all like, they were all bad last year. Yep.

Yeah. I mean, and that's like the play actions and everything else. It's all targeted to put linebackers in a bind. And so you'll see when you look up at like coverage grades by PFF, the linebackers, it's like five guys with good coverage grades. Everyone else is horrible.

It's really remarkable. And that's just as an aside why someone else should have probably paid Eric Wilson more money than the Philadelphia Eagles had to to get him. But, okay, so just one more. Now, the one thing I wonder about just as an aside with that is, like, maybe they just didn't feel like Caleb Farley would be good value at that point because he went like 10 spots later. But Rashawn Slater would have made sense. So before we wrap up here, let's talk about the percentiles with Kellen Mond because we included Kellen Mond in our list of players who could potentially shape the future of the NFC. If the Vikings play out this year, they don't have a great season with Kirk

Cousins. They decide we're trading him away. Some QB desperate team gives them a first round pick or something. And they like what they see from Kellen Mond. He could go in and be their starter. That's a possibility. What do you see as the floor, I think, is just clearly like you didn't work out for everybody. So what's the median outcome and what's the ceiling outcome for Kellen Mond? Well, what's interesting, and I think I brought this up pre-draft on the Chris Trapasso Draft Show, that I was advocating for the Vikings to go offensive line in the first round over defensive line with the idea of, hey, in 2022, when you draft your quarterback, you'll be set up to have a offense that knows its identity.

They want to stretch run one way, play action off of it. You have your wide receiver. You know, you could fill out your number two and your number three in free agency or in the middle of the draft, but get that offensive line that has to be very specialized, very athletic and agile offensive line. They do that with Christian Darasaw and with Wyatt Davis, but then they're like a step ahead by picking Kellen Mond. I think Kellen Mond's feeling could be like 2017 Case Keenum.

Like that would not shock me whatsoever. If he's like, he can operate the offense at actually a tick more efficient level than what Kirk Cousins has. And I think his 50 percentile is probably very low level Kirk Cousins. I don't think if Kellen Mond landed with a team that didn't have such a quarterback-friendly system, and they were kind of in a situation like, hey, we're going to hand this guy the job in his rookie season, toward the end. I don't know if he's ready for that, but we know that because of the contract

that Kirk Cousins has, he's going to be the starter this season. And unless it gets disastrous very early on, Kellen Mond's not going to play. But a full season in practice, learning the system, I think Kellen Mond can definitely, because of his experience, athleticism, accuracy, I think being coached by Jimbo Fisher in a quote-unquote pro style or now a classic offense, that's kind of what the Vikings run. I mean, it's not the exact same system, but it's a lot of classic fundamentals,

like in terms of play action and your footwork and your ball, like ball handling. So I think Kellen Mond can ultimately be someone that maybe won't ever elevate the team to a Aaron Rodgers type level, obviously, and be one of these top five quarterbacks in the league. But if the Vikings in 2022 or 2023 say, hey, we got this Kirk Cousins contract off our books, we can start to build our team without this $35, $40 million cap hit on there. We have a third round quarterback that's making pennies on the dollar. Let's add some more

receivers. Let's try to revamp the defensive line. I really liked the pick, not only just to say, hey, take a role at the quarterback market, but who they got, because I really think that Kellen Mond is that type that won't stray too much from the structure of the play, but we know in Minnesota that can yield pretty good results. No, I think that this is a good point to be realistic even about his ceiling. I mean, when a quarterback has that much experience and doesn't have tremendous statistics in college, you have to put a cap on where the guy can go, just assuming that he's not an outlier. So the 90th percentile is probably your maybe like the 15th best starter in the league or something right like maybe you're

Derek Carr at your absolute best and at your median you're your case Keenum as in you're probably a backup who if you start can be pretty good and then anything lower than that is you're just not really in the league for very long or you kind of just bounce around and you go oh that guy's still around and I think you make a great point that drafting kellen mon does not mean where you picked them 66 that in 2022 if you don't love the results in practice that you can't just pick somebody else to be definitely not yes did you what chicago did this year and trade up for whoever you want to get the only difference is well we'll see i mean, we're a long way away. We didn't even know anything about Mack Jones at this point last year.

So, you know, there's always guys who pop up. But I'm not sure the quarterback group from next year is going to be as good as it was this year, but you can always do that. And if you were in a position to sell the farm, you've got your offensive line, you've got your top wide receiver, everything's kind of in place to go forward with if you were going to do that. And also you've set it up so Kirk Cousins kind of no more excuses. You know what the Vikings remind me of like in this, if we're projecting for this alternate universe of Kellen Mond being the starter, the Dallas Cowboys when they drafted Dak Prescott and they had Tony Romo there at the end of his career making a lot of money. I mean, he had the injuries that Kirk Cousins doesn't have,

but taking nothing away from Dak Prescott because he has been, when healthy, an elite quarterback in the NFL. But it's a similar situation because he stepped into that starting role with an elite offensive line, a good running back that, at the time, wasn't making crazy money. I mean, I guess the Vikings are a little different with Dalvin, um, aside to that lucrative deal, but it allowed them to like trade for Murray Cooper, sign him to a big contract, add some pieces on defense. And they had that one really good season, um, when they were all

kind of healthy. I mean, they haven't all been healthy together really since then, but the situation, and if you look at the together really since then, but the situation, and if you look at the roster and to say, hey, we have a third round pick quarterback, he's not even making like four or 5 million on a first year rookie or a first round pick rookie contract. He's making nothing as a third round pick and he can step into a very good environment to succeed. So if you really want to look forward, like look to what the 2016 or 2017 Dallas Cowboys that were a very difficult team to play because they could build around their third round quarterback and they didn't have to spend crazy money on the offensive line because

it was already set up to be very successful. Chris, the next time we talk, I will have seen some rookies on the field. I believe that that's what's going to happen this week is that we're going to have a little access to rookie mini camps, which we didn't have last year. There was no rookie mini camps, things feeling normal again. So the prospect podcast is your podcast and CBS sports.com is where people can read your work. It's awesome as always. And we will carry on with this Chris for a few more weeks with the Chris Trapasso Draft Show, touching on every draft pick and breaking it down and going from there.

I think we need to talk about maybe next episode. And you're the driver of this train, so you decide. But I think we need to talk about the Green Bay Packers because I know a lot of your listeners are probably interested in the Aaron Rodgers stuff. Going at a draft angle I think would be interesting because I think last year's draft and this year's draft were very much indicating that their GM, their front office, is like, hey, let's look forward to the future. Let's look forward five years. It does not have Aaron Rodgers in the plan.

So we could certainly touch on them in terms of, you know, what their draft classes have kind of indicated. I like it. And maybe by next week, we'll have some sort of trade of Aaron Rodgers or something. I don't know. I don't know. I feel like it's going to happen. Me too. I don't know. We'll see. All right. Thanks, Chris. Thanks, Matt.