Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Comparing 2025 JJ McCarthy to 2000 Daunte Culpepper

Episode Date: July 2, 2025

Matthew Coller is joined by longtime listener and Vikings fan Josh Smith of the The Frederick News-Post to discuss QB JJ Mccarthy and compare where he's at heading into his first season as starter and where Daunte Culpepper was at in 2000.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of purple insider. Matthew collar here and joining me on the show today, Josh Smith, who is the sports editor at the Frederick news post in Maryland, a lifelong Minnesota Vikings fan and the author of a very good article called is this quarterback deja vu Vikings over at purple insider dot football. Great contribution to my newsletter in which Josh, you had a chance to talk to some Vikings legends, Todd Stussy,

Robert Smith. And the main subject of the article was, Hey, this is deja vu, isn't it? With the Vikings going from a veteran quarterback to an unproven quarterback and win now mode where they've got a stacked roster for the OG Vikings fans. That sounds a lot like the year 2000. So first of all, welcome back to the show. Great to have you back. And I'm excited to talk about this article, man. Yeah, thanks for having me. Um, I think I pitched this to you a little while ago and it was largely after all of that Aaron Rodgers Talk was occurring and that really made me think back to the year 2000 which consequently has worked

I think the year this hat is from and it's sun stained and Sweat stained and whatever but I do have a hat from back then thought I would put that on but the more that occurred in the off season in terms of the talk about the Vikings quarterback situation, the more I kept thinking about the year 2000 and all of these different variables that were so, so similar and the feeling that fans had

as I was a fan back then and heading into the uncertainty heading into that season just room it's the feeling was just so very similar to what we're all going through right now and I was it was a really interesting time for me to revisit because it was I was right out of college starting my journalism career and it was the first year probably since I became a big football fan that I wasn't able to watch a lot of football and I wasn't able to watch the Vikings much that year I was just kind of following them through the little the ways that you

could through media back then websites and things like that so that's where I was I was starting my journalism career just out of college Matt where were you in the year 2000? On the year 2000, I mean, it's gonna be hard not to do the Conan O'Brien in the year 2000. For those of us who were of the right age to have watched Conan O'Brien in college, I would have been a freshman in high school. I had probably, let's see, would have been thinking about the Buffalo Bills moving on from Doug Flutie and how disappointing that was, uh,

because the Doug Flutier was so much fun. And then he joined the chargers after there was the music city miracle. And then there was, I think another season and then they moved on and they went and got drew Bledsoe. I, my timeline's muddy there because the bills were kind of a mess back then. And I was also in high school. But that was that was about it. But I definitely would have been playing Madden 99 with

Jeff George and Randy Moss. Oh, my. Sure. Because you always wanted Jeff George on Madden video games. I think it's a big reason that I've always brought him up on the show and really enjoyed him. There was only so much football you could watch from other teams back then. You'd have to catch a, you know, Dick Stockton on a Sunday. If you, if you saw a Vikings game, but I probably saw two, three Vikings games a year back then,

but I would definitely play with cause Moss this is for gamers, but we lost had number 18 on the video game because when it came out, they weren't sure what number he was going to wear. So I think in preseason, he had been wearing 18. Right. And that was what he had on the video game, which I thought was cool. So I was using that. And if I'm not mistaken, just to go like all deep into this, Dante Culpepper had like the worst ratings on the game.

So you had to play Jeff George or Randall Cunningham because Culpepper just couldn't throw the ball yet. Is that answer the question of what I was playing too many video games in the year 2000? It doesn't. And you know, I think I will back then I didn't even have cable. So I really couldn't see much from the Vikings or watch many of their games except they had a couple

of primetime games that I think I was able to watch that year. But it was a treat to go back. And that's what I did. I went back and found all the highlight packages from the ESPN, what was the primetime show with Berman and Tom Jackson. And that was where I started a lot of my research for this story, which kind of took over my life in my downtime for the better part of like a month or something like that. Once you gave me the green light, I was just like all in on researching this team and going back and finding all of these fun connections and tracing these lines from then to today and backwards and forwards.

And yeah, and the Jort man, Jeff George, that was such a thrilling season, just watching him and what he could do with those weapons was astronomical with that army had. And you just I think, you know, in researching this, it seems like the key players on that team really wanted George back. Now he was 32 years old and probably was pretty much done. I can't remember if he went, I know he went to Washington right after that for a year and kind of sat, but yeah, I can't remember, how much productivity he had after that season. It was the right move to get away from him, I think.

And call Pepper was just this gigantic question mark. He was like, you know, ESPN touted him as the mystery man of the NFL. You know, it's hard to even understand how much Dennis Green really believed in him. And he was the one who went out on a limb and picked him at number 11 out of central Florida, a team that is not a power five conference. I don't even know what conference they played in, but the competition he played against was not what JJ McCarthy faced in Michigan. There were just so many unknowns with that kid

and they're heading into the season and lo and behold in March it's you know it starts coming out that Dennis Green is talking to Dan Marino's agent and they're trying to set up a potential contract and to bring Dan Marino in at age 39. So again this is like the you know the comparison is just uncanny really when you when you think about it because of what happened with with Aaron Rodgers and in this offseason, so You know just so many I think that team even you know if you think about it even further, you know that team

The 2000 team was coming off of a playoff loss in which they were outclassed by the Rams Same same thing, you know that happened with Sam Darnold and the 2024 version of the Vikings outclassed by the Rams in the playoffs. It wasn't the divisional playoffs. It was the wild card playoffs. But anyway, nevertheless, that's sort of what drove my interest in all of this as I started to research. And like you said, I think you and I talked early on there. Well, like we need to find as many ways possible to talk about JJ McCarthy and this, and this situation that they find themselves in

because we just really don't know what's going to happen. And it's super intriguing. So with Jeff George, he played, I think three games with Washington and then got cut because things had gone so badly with that team and they just moved on immediately. But I mean, that doesn't mean it would have worked out that way with the Vikings, but you talk about it being uncanny. I mean, Jeff George had been a bust in the NFL.

He had played horribly with the Indianapolis Colts, and then he had one season with June Jones in Atlanta. I think it was 1990, I want to say four or 96, 95, somewhere in that range where he had one really good breakout season, but then it just did not work out and I think he had gotten benched in Atlanta. Comes to Minnesota as a backup quarterback and Randall Cunningham was not able to carry over his success from 1998. He gets benched, George comes in, goes, I think eight and two in that run. And, uh, we had Chris Carter on the show one time and he talked about how much he loves Jeff George and he loved his arm and he loved his willingness to just throw it up and let his receivers go get it.

So it doesn't surprise me that after getting to that point, that a lot of the guys would have been like, Hey, we have a similar team here, which is what the Vikings are looking at going from Sam Darnold to JJ McCarthy, though there hasn't really been a lot of consternation at all from players. There was no hints whatsoever. And, uh, yeah, this is a bold decision or anything like that. I think that the really helpful thing and maybe the big difference is it sounded to me from the players that you talked to and the research that he called Pepper had not exactly wowed the guys behind the scenes in the first year that he sat behind Jeff George. Whereas JJ McCarthy, the one time they saw him in a game, he looked like a baller and

he had played really well in training camp and he had impressed the guys the way he acted around the facility How you know serious he was about his job and then we see the same thing at OTAs But it sounds like there was a lot more Fear that Dante was not going to be that dude where it seems like now There's a lot of confidence within the players that McCarthy can be a quality starting quarterback. Yeah, absolutely You're 100% correct. I went back and, you know, of course I talked with Robert Smith and I talked with Todd Stussy and they both sort of shared that same sentiment.

Like Robert Smith, I think even said they would watch him in practice in 1999 and he was just like, it looked so bad. He's like, how? And he said, I said, how is this guy going to do this? And so not only that, but then you had Todd Stussy mentioned how when he was drafted, they, the team, a lot of the veterans were like, a quarterback?

Like we don't want a quarterback. We don't want a young quarterback. We're like coming off the 1998 NFC championship game. Like let's load up again and go after it. And and we why are we taking with the number 11 pick a quarterback? When Javon curse was there like that? That's the famous name that everybody thinks about from that draft who was sitting right there for the Vikings Who had a defense that was aging and and aging out? They didn't have

You know, they had some some probable caliber players but those guys were getting older like John Randall was nearing the end of his run and and I think it was his last season in 2000 with the Vikings. You know Robert Griffith was getting older, Ed McDaniel was getting older. I think they even brought in like late in, I'm jumping around between the 99 and 2000 seasons, but like late before the 2000 season started, they brought in Chris Dishman to start at cornerback.

You know, they didn't have a lot of big stars on defense, so they could have used someone like Kirst to pump up that pass rush. And so Stucci mentioned that like, they were not exactly thrilled with this kid You know with the him at him being the draft pick when they got him And then he started the you know to play in the preseason his rookie year And I think it was kind of a disaster like he he didn't perform well

he needed he needed time to sit and wait and Dennis Green afforded that to him. And they were able to go in and have a really nice year with, again, with plugging in a sort of veteran stopgap quarterback like Dennis Green's teams always seemed to do back in that era. Did not matter who they put under center, Jim McMahon, Sean Salisbury, you know, Randall Cunningham, Brad Johnson was obviously like one of the guys that he developed and you know, he got kind of wally pipped or whatever you

want to say when he hurt his arm in 1998 and Cunningham came in and just completely lit it up. But you know, the team was just, it was built to roll and to just similarly to how, you know, this season the Vikings are heading into it with high expectations. And in 2000, that's why they were flirting with Dan Marino, I think, and why Dennis Green wanted to see if he could squeeze, you know, a little something out of another veteran quarterback, bring one, another older guy, bring them in for one year and see what he can do. Um, but you, you know, you know what happened? Uh,

Marino just retired and they, they rolled with Culpepper. And I think Stucey was just sort of like at that point, let's see what we got with this kid. I mean, they knew enough about him in terms of his, and I think Robert Smith spoke to this really well they were really impressed throughout that rookie year with his work ethic with his ability to you know take command of whatever was given to him whether that was scout team or whether it was a rep here or there first team rep here or there in practice so So they, by the time 2000 rolled around, I think things were,

the team was a little more accepting of the direction that they had chosen to go in. Folks for weeks now, I've been using tempo meals to cut down on the amount of times that I go out for fast food. And as you guys know for me, that is quite an accomplishment, but it's worked. I feel like I'm in better shape and big time saving a lot of money from going out to eat constantly. Tempo is a weekly delivery service that delivers chef crafted meals from a dietitian approved menu fresh to your door. I do nothing and they show up. They're perfectly portioned lunches and dinners. Take the guesswork out of eating. They are well prepared. They're perfectly portioned lunches and dinners take the guesswork out of eating. They are well prepared

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Yeah. And the guy who was his backup was from Minnesota. And so I met with him and talked with him and he said that it was really fun to see Dante's mind work even at the UFL level where it's not the same quite as the NFL, but Denny Green was his coach. And I think that was something that people didn't really know about Dante is how well he had captured all of those things schematically and running the offense and being the commander

of that offense. But because he was such an athletic freak with an unbelievable arm that ended up being really the focus and maybe there's a divergence there with McCarthy versus Dante Culpepper. But I did want to go back to that decision. And so you have George going to Washington, you have them talking to Dan Marino and you can't help, but think about like what would have happened if either one of those things had gone down, right? And then the 2000 team kind of comes apart a little

bit and Culpepper is not as good the following season. I mean, you wonder if it had started at a different season for Culpepper, if it would have turned out differently for him, but this was kind of the perfect season with most of those guys that had still been there for him to drop in. Also, Dan Marino had just been horrible with the Miami Dolphins. And that again, it reminds me of the Aaron Rodgers thing where with JJ McCarthy, this is the best roster that you're going to have. And next year it will still probably be pretty good, but a lot changes within a year. When you get the opportunity to stack up a roster and go for it, like you have to take

advantage of that. And giving McCarthy this setup, I think it's even better than what Dante had because the defense is so stacked and Brian Flores is here and everything else. giving McCarthy this setup, I think it's even better than what Dante had because the defense is so stacked and Brian Flores is here and everything else. But, uh, the what ifs of this will live after JJ McCarthy, no matter what happens, like what if they had brought back Sam Darnold, what if they had decided to go with Aaron Rogers? And I think that's another one of those correlations that throughout this season, as we look at the results, it's either going to be, wow, can you imagine if they had gone with Rogers?

He's two and eight in Pittsburgh or Rogers is taking Pittsburgh shockingly to the AFC championship. Maybe he would have, right? I think that Vikings fans have wanted to avoid that discussion. I think even with Sam Darnold, same thing. If they win the NFC West in Seattle and he throws for 40 touchdowns again and hey, maybe they're playing each other in the playoffs or something. Like that's a discussion that I think Vikings fans are so like narrowly focused on. This was the right move. They're

ready for McCarthy. They're ready for this franchise quarterback that I've kind of avoided diving into that. Like, Hey, you know, what if they had brought back Sam Darnold or what? McCarthy, they're ready for this franchise quarterback that I've kind of avoided diving into that. Like, Hey, you know, what if they had brought back Sam Darnold or what? I didn't even want to get down the Aaron Rodgers thing because nobody wanted that. But, uh, we will be thinking about that as the season goes along. You better believe we'll always be having our eyes on see how we'll see out Seahawks games on the scoreboard. I, you know, that's, that'll be, you know, I'll be scoreboard watching for the NFC North teams like I always am. And I'm going to be watching to see what Seattle's doing. Like, that's a hundred percent the way I feel about this. I loved what Darnold did last year. I was

floored by some of the throws that I saw him make repeatedly over the season. And I, at the same time, the season. And I at the same time was of the mind that it was time to move on like and work with you know a complete offseason with a rookie quarterback or your rookie scale quarterback contract and the direction as they went was to me this the smartest way to go but that doesn't mean that I don't like I'm you know I'm not going to be watching Sam Darnold and being you know and seeing some of those bombs that he's undoubtedly going to be throwing to Smith and Jigba or whoever and and and comparing it to whether or not McCarthy is able to do the same sort of thing with this Vikings offense and I wonder

that's the that's one of the big question marks I have is how much this offense will, how different this offense will look with McCarthy. And you've touched on it a lot in your reporting and your podcasting about his ability to see the field a little better, sort of short passes. But I wonder a lot about whether O'Connell's going to be like, let it rip, buddy.

Like, this is where the read is supposed to take you. Throw it deep. And I wonder how that's going to develop as the season goes on. And how long it's going to take him to really feel comfortable within this offense. I mean, I know he's had he had all off season, all last off season, all last preseason and training camp and he's had a full off season to get fully in touch with this offense. And you know, it's just going to be whether or not he can acclimate to the speed of the game. And I think that was something that Cole Pepper really was able to do well almost immediately.

Now, I don't think they had him throwing the ball as much. Of course, it was a different era. So he wasn't gonna be throwing the ball 35 times a game or what have you. But you could see, as I went through watching the highlights, he clearly took a step forward after a certain point in the season, like very early on, like it was week five or week six.

I think after that point, you could almost see that something switched in him. And he sort of figured out how he could best accentuate or how he could utilize his skills best within Dennis Green's offense. Um, and I wonder about that with McCarthy, like how long is it going to take before we see the full scope of what JJ McCarthy is as a professional quarterback? Even last year with Sam Darnold, the early part of the season, there were a couple of times, I mean, there's a 99 yard touchdown or 98, uh, to Justin Jefferson, where he goes, you know, crazy over a 99 yard touchdown or 98, uh, to Justin Jefferson,

where he goes, you know, crazy over the top and they unleashed Sam Darnold and show some confidence in him. But if you look at, and it was score driven to some extent, but you look at the run pass ratio early on the percentage of play action pass early on last year for Sam Darnold, there was an acclamation process. There was a guiding him into the season. I mean, I remember reacting to the first game against the Giants in New York and saying this was exactly how Sam Darnold should try to win a football game for the Minnesota Vikings because they had

run effectively, they had played great defense, and then he made one sick throw to Jefferson down the sideline. He scored in the red zone. He converted a couple of third downs. The only turnover was not really his fault. It was a tip ball. And it was like, that's the way to play Sam Darnold. And then by the game against the Falcons, the game against the Packers, like, yes, Sam Darnold, you're going to have to win everything for this football team, which was probably not totally fair to him. And something I'll be thinking about is, man, if he had Donovan Jackson, Ryan Kelly and Will Fries as opposed to Blake, Brandel, Garrett Bradbury and Dalton Reisner, maybe Sam Darnold

would still be the quarterback here. But that's not how it works, right? That's the equation that you go through now, which is very different from what it used to be. Now the rookie contract is such a huge advantage that you kind of had to make this move in order to stack the roster the way that they did. But I want to go back to Dante's rookie season

because you're right, I do think a lot about the style that KOC is going to play and wants to play. They're not changing this offense. Like this has worked way too well for Kirk Guzzins, for Nick Mullins, for Sam Darnold all last year. They're not going to say, you know, what we should do is we should start running this quick pass bubble screen off. I like no way. Uh, and I think McCarthy does have the arm to do it. He just didn't, uh, do it in college. But I wonder about that arc with Dante. If you could talk more about that, especially what you heard from the former players, because I think there are going to be moments with

McCarthy where you have to be patient. There are going to be some games where we go out. What happened there? Because there were for even the best rookie quarterbacks throughout their seasons. But with Dante's, it started out with so many wins and then it kind of hit the skids and then it ended poorly, but then they win the playoff game. I mean, it was, it was such a roller coaster for him in that first season. Man, I think we need to get ready for another roller coaster. I really do. Um, now that team didn't have anywhere near, like I said, the defensive talent just was

not there. So they were not able to just blow teams out. Now they had a stacked offense. They had Robert Smith, they had Mawson Carter, and they had multiple pro bowlers on the offensive line. Corey Stringer, Matt Burke was starting his first year as the center after Jeff Christie left. Stucey had been to a pro bowl.

David Dixon was like sort of a super solid right guard. So they were just completely loaded up and they had, they did not throw the ball a lot in those early games and those early wins. And what they had was, the thing I was thinking about before I came on here is like, Culpepper had a couple of things. He had a superpower and he had,

he sort of had like a Trump card to pull and that was tossing it up to Moss right and his superpower was he could run and he weighed 260 or 270 pounds and something that Stussy mentioned to me that was like It was vividly there and all of the highlights that I watched was These sort of read option plays that they had built into their offense. So if Dante, if he saw that he was only gonna have one linebacker on him and he dropped back for a pass that was called and he would he could just take off and run if his first read

wasn't there or whatever he could just run and he could run for 15 or 20 yards or he could and he could shrug off that linebacker and that was a huge part of their early success was just his his like you said his athleticism and his ability to read defenses and utilize that running game was a huge factor in them being able to move the ball early on in the season and consequently pull out some wins against teams that really weren't that great. Like that was a really weak year for the NFC. In my eyes, just from going back over the standings and just looking at the teams that they played, he did not have to face a lot of really tough competition.

And he didn't play, it's not like he was just completely lighting it up he was finding ways to keep them in games and then they would you know make something countless times he was just he would be throwing up deep balls to Moss for touchdowns in the fourth quarter of games to take the lead or to get the team back in the game or he was running like I think the first game of the season they beat Chicago at home they were losing in the going into third quarter I think the first game of the season, they beat Chicago at home. They were losing and going into the third quarter, I think they were losing by almost two touchdowns. And you can imagine what the Metrodome fans were like, people sitting there were like, oh my God,

this is not what we expected. Or this is our biggest fears coming to life here, this kid can't get it done. And then in the fourth quarter, he rushed, I think it late in the third quarter and into the fourth quarter he rushed for three touchdowns they won the game because of his ability to you know just you know to take advantage of that athleticism so it was probably about week six or so I think what was what I mentioned I think there was a week five game they were they started seven and oh, but week five was and this is something I pointed out in the story against Detroit

They pulled out a win. I think he threw two deep pass two deep touchdowns to Moss in that game and after the game Apparently in the locker room. There was some kind of like mild confrontation between Culpepper and Moss where it was just all based on you know them and their trust in each other and it was even it even occurred in front of reporters apparently so it was reported that this confrontation occurred and that's and that's the game where it was sort of I felt like it was sort of the turning point and you could see things change after that like Culpepper was almost just like oh, yeah

I've got this guy and I could just throw it downfield to him and it doesn't matter if there's two or three dudes there And things sort of developed from there and he clearly became more comfortable and I think by by around that point And it said it said so in the old sports illustrated cover story that I read about Culpepper Was it said that he was better Sports Illustrated cover story that I read about Culpepper was it said that He was better at reading defenses than they expected because he think about his rookie year and this is something I delve into deeply in the one of the section the first section of my story is Hit what he spent his first year doing he you know

he was the scout team quarterback and he was getting some reps in practice and stuff like that. And he had gained a level of comfort in that offense by the time they were about into the midway point of the season. And things just sort of took off from there. And now they ran up against some tougher competition. I think at that point, they started playing some tougher teams and tougher quarterbacks. That was a big factor in their success that year. They went 11 and five in the regular season against teams that finished

like with a below 500 winning percentage. And the quarterbacks that they faced, it was just, I hadn't even called it derisively, like a murderer's row in the story. It was like, Jay Fiedler and Cade McNown twice, and Charlie Batch. And one of those games was against Stoney Case because Charlie Batch got hurt and Doug Flutie.

And an old Troy Aikman. So they had things sort of set up in their favor in terms of their schedule and they were able to get on a roll. They faced Sean King twice against the Tampa Bay Bucks. So he had that, I think, working in his favor was they did not have a difficult schedule and he took advantage of that.

Yeah, that will very likely be different this year, but I did want to pick up on what you said about him learning to read defenses over that first year. And there have been some really great success stories of rookies coming into the NFL and succeeding right away. A quarterback. We saw it last year from Jayden Daniels. Of course, Jayden Daniels is 24 years old coming into the NFL. The same with Bo Nicks. Like these guys are a lot older than JJ McCarthy. And I have just

always been a huge believer in the quarterback's rookies being able to sit for a year. And, you know, CJ shroud made it work and it worked out for him. But even Bryce young, probably Bryce young should not have been out there in the first year that he was playing because there's such a big adjustment for a lot of these guys. And when this is people have heard me say this a lot and you have as a listener to the show, but JJ McCarthy is not a rookie. Do not say it that way because the amount of information that he was able to download into his brain last year, the amount of things that he saw Sam Darnold deal with,

the meetings, learning from the other players inside that building, watching how it plays out. And even though he couldn't run the scout team, he was still going through all of those motions throughout the week that he's going to be doing this year and had an entire training camp and pre-season, which is another reason, by the way, that I don't think the offense is changing.

They built the offense with JJ McCarthy in mind and had Sam Darnold run it, but it was built in some extent with him in mind last year because he was already on the team and they already knew that he was going to be the future. But I think Dante is another one of those. It's not brought up. It's always my homes. It's always Rogers, but he's another one of those clear success stories of a guy that if he had played right away, might've lost his confidence, might've lost confidence of

his teammates and instead had this year to grow and develop and get his chance to play when he got in. I, the other thing I wanted to bring up too was, you know, the correlations here are crazy to have the best wide receiver in the NFL to have the young quarterback come into like, what are the odds that the next time the Vikings draft this quarterback, they in the top 10, they end up with or what was, uh, was Culpepper 11th. So that same range, right? So the, the same range and it's the number one wide receiver in the entire NFL. But, and we're hearing the same things. Jefferson saying that he's trying to talk to JJ McCarthy and get him to trust him

and understand I'm going to be there and learn about how, you know, I can go up and get it and stuff like that. Cause Jefferson does not lead the world in separation. He is the, the king of going up and getting the contested catch. So that's going to be a process that I can't wait to see how that plays out through training camp of how those two get on the same page. Because last year when we saw it from Darnold,

when Darnold really figured out like how to throw to Justin Jefferson, the light came on for him. And all of a sudden it was like, actually this could work out for Sam Darnold and you could see the same thing playing out for McCarthy because he's really never thrown to Jefferson until this OTA is in minicamp. Yeah, I wanna go back and mention

what Brad Johnson talked about in my story. He just was like adamant that it is beneficial to sit. And he was like, he's like, Josh, he's like, look back at the Super Bowl quarterbacks. You know, and we went to him, he just started listing off all these guys that have played in Super Bowls that sat either for an entire year or for at least part of their rookie years. And it was a ton of them. I think I even wrote them out since 2000. It was like 77% of quarterbacks who played in the Super Bowl. Now granted, a bunch of them were Tom Brady, you know, a bunch of them were

Patrick Mahomes. But anyway, 77. You know, Jalen Hurts, though Jalen Hurts didn't play his first year. Exactly. His name came up while we were talking. But Brad was like, look, he's like, I learned everything from watching Warren Moon do his thing. I watched him What did he do after he threw a touchdown? How did he handle throwing an interception? How did he handle?

Chris Carter Chirping in his ear about give me the ball. How did he handle a game where he threw three picks? How did he handle the the coach coming it cut him coming at him with a problem or having a disagreement with a coach. He says that McCarthy's ability to absorb all of that will be invaluable and cannot be discounted. And not only that, but he said, you have to get the kid needed some time to mature physically. Now, granted, he was rehabbing an injury, so whatever. But he's right. 21 year old kid whose body was probably pretty burnt out through the whole process of the draft

and training camp and all that. After winning the national championship, he had very little time off. He probably needed that time. I think he was gonna get it anyway. Like I think, I'm full agreement that Darnold was starting that season and Darnold was gonna play for most of that time. I think he was gonna get it anyway. Like I think I think we I'm full agreement that Darnold starting that season and Darnold was gonna play for most of that season And they they wanted to let him

JJ sit and watch and you know it it behooves them to allow him to learn this offense as as allow him to learn this offense as well as possible. Because look at what, you know, like you've said it numerous times, Kirk needed like every bit of that first season and a half to like really comprehend what, where he was supposed to go with the ball

and how he was supposed to run this offense. So, man, I mean, I don't think it could have, aside from the injury, it couldn't have worked out better, I think for McCarthy and all of the the everything that he got to see, and all of the study time he got with KOC. So it is very similar to what Culpepper went through in some ways and Stiffrin and others. They both benefited from having that year off. That's the way it's going to play out. I guarantee it. We're going to be where we'll see, um, somewhat of a, uh, a seasoned quarterback in JJ McCarthy.

He's not going to, I don't think he's going to look like a rookie right off the bat is what I'm saying. So you've heard me make my prediction on JJ McCarthy season. I did so in the episode with Steve Palazzolo. I'll probably bring it up again of 3800 yards, 11th best quarterback by PFF. I think I even threw in a quarterback rating 96.5 quarterback rating for JJ McCarthy. And Steve said that he thought it was a little on the bold side. I've also predicted as part of my bold prediction series on the newsletter, I've also thrown out there that I think the Vikings will play the Lions on Christmas Day

and that will ultimately decide who is going to win the NFC North. Are these bold in your mind? Do you feel like, am I, you know, a little too, as Mike Zimmer once said, high on the oats? I don't think that's exactly what that means, but I love that he said it because he owns a ranch. But, and I think that has to do with horses. Anyway, the point is that I think based on everything that they can give JJ McCarthy and the time that he has spent on task, I'm just going to reference everybody from the

previous era. That was Kirk's thing. Time on task, time on, but he's spent so much time with his teammates, with his coaches and all those things. I think he's just going to be ready to go and they're going to be the football team that we expect them to be with this really good roster. But is that too much? I mean, you are a guy, I, you know, I'm looking at the numbers, I'm looking at the history, I'm looking at what I know and kind of putting it in the bucket and seeing what it spits out, but you're a guy who's seen the expectations go up

and the disappointment to go up with it and things like that for many years, right? So are you skeptical or are you thinking that this year is going to be what everybody wants it to be? You've known me, we've known each other now casually and gotten to know each other better over these last few years. And I'm a pessimistic guy by nature.

I think I even have it in my Twitter profile or something. But I don't know, man. This is the most optimistic I've felt in a long time. I just am so trusting of the way this offense is constructed and the way that KOC seems to get the best out of whoever it is that he puts in there. And whatever numbers you were spitting out were, they sounded right to me. Like maybe he's not going to be in the top 11 or something like that in terms of quarterback rankings. Maybe he's a little closer to the middle of the pack. But I like what you said about his touchdown

totals, his interception totals. I just think looking at this offense, assuming health, there's really no way that he's going to be below average. I just, I don't see it. He's at least gonna be average and he's probably gonna be better than average because I see all of these intangibles that stick out about him, that we've heard all of these players on the teams

touting time and again, his work ethic, his personability, his, you know, the fact that he's a football junkie, like all of these things. He's like, basically could be KOC's son. I mean, let's be honest. It's just what it feels like. And I've sort of allowed this to like all wash over me, and I'm just like ready to be positive

about this setup and this transition. And I'll probably get like a dagger stuck in my back by these this godforsaken franchise, because that's what I call them. But we'll see. I don't think I don't think you were being bold now. Well, there over the last couple of years, I think that there is enough evidence to show us that Kevin O'Connell and Brian Flores are very very good at player evaluation. They know what they're looking at and Kevin O'Connell.

I'm sure that in the first meeting where he said I want Sam Darnold is the bridge quarterback. There were probably some people saying, oh, are you sure? Like, shouldn't we get a Joe Flacco or somebody who has had some success in the league instead? I mean, he bought into the talent that Sam Darnold had and maximize that to the end degree that right there. That's why I will always argue that, you know, 2024 was very important as a season. We learned a lot in 2024. And remember, I mean, going into 2024, Mark Wilf said,

we're not giving these guys extensions yet. Like we wanna see how this plays out first. We're not ready to just say, okay, you guys are gonna run the franchise for the next half decade and beyond. They wanted to see it. And I think everybody did, right? We didn't know like, okay, OCE, is is he a quarterback whisperer that didn't even come up really,

because Kirk cousins at the end of the day was mostly the same Kirk cousins, just a little more confident, a little more open, a little more fun, but it wasn't like he suddenly turned into this crazy different guy. And then, you know, the Dobbs thing and the Mullins, and there was a little signal there, but not much. You needed last season to have this belief and confidence. If last season they had gone 7 and 10 and Sam Darnold was mediocre, then I think I would be going into this with a lot more like, I don't know guys. I mean, this is kind of, we'll see. And how much can he really elevate a quarterback? But now you have that evidence to be able to work with as part

of this evaluation. So, and I think that last year also means that because they did so well, they could be confident in moving on from Sam Darnold and feel like you can do this with another quarterback. So, before we wrap it up, you listen to the show all the time. I have games for my listeners. You mentioned that you have a game for me. Is that true? That's true. Okay I thought it would be fun to revisit. This is a first by the way This is a fry. I don't know if anyone has ever come to the show with a game. So let's hear it Yeah, this game is called. Who is he? I don't have any music and I'm not gonna like do what you do and like try to like come up with a

Do do do do do do do, do, do, do. Who is it? Who is he? Okay, that was pretty good. So this is all, these are all questions from the 2000 season. So I'll set the stage with something that happened in a game as I went through and watched all the highlights, all of these amazingly fun and kooky and cool things

like stuck out to me as a fellow nerd from you know that era of watching football and I was like man Matt would love some of these some of these little factoids here and some of these little Goofy plays that occurred in these games. I have six of them. So I'll set the scene I'll read each one and then I'll ask who is he? And we'll see if you can guess. Okay. Are these all Vikings answers? These are all, they're not all Vikings answers. They're now they are all from, from, from their, from games, incidents that occurred in, in their games though, that season. Okay. Cause I went through, I didn't watch full games. I think I watched like most of two games from that season

But otherwise just was like watching the highlights to get a feel for How the games went and these are all taken from from those highlights. So here we go Okay in a 13 to 7 week to win over Miami This guy caught a touchdown pass from Jay Fiedler with a minute left to put the Dolphins within six points. Who was he? From Jay Fiedler week two against the Miami Dolphins. Okay, so let's see who would have been playing wide receiver for the Miami Dolphins then.

Let's see. Well, hold on. Give me a second. I'm thinking about receivers. Uh, with this receiver, would this be like, uh, is there a recent connection to this receiver and the NFL? Like maybe his kid playing in the NFL? No, the connection here is, um,

I thought this was funny and a good one to use because of your connection to Buffalo and the bills of your childhood. Oh, okay. So with that was, to use because of your connection to Buffalo and the bills of your childhood. Oh, okay. So with that was Thurman Thomas. Ding, ding, ding. I don't know. But you got it. Thurman Thomas played.

I had no idea. No, I knew recollection of Thurman Thomas playing for one year with the Miami dolphins. He did like almost nothing that entire season, except caught this touchdown pass against the Vikings and we killed that brought them close enough where, believe it or not, they had a chance at a Hail Mary. So there was a ton of those that happened in 2000 where the game came down to like the last play.

Okay, I was thinking maybe a Ronde Gadsden. Like could have been that guy because I was hunting for like what wide receiver would have been kind of cool then for the Miami Dolphins. Good name. That's a good name. All right. Number two, in a week, three win at New England, Drew Bledsoe had the Patriots driving in hopes of tying, but this guy sacked him on fourth down, essentially ending the game.

Who was he? And his and this guy's name does appear in the story that I wrote for Purple Insider. Okay, so we're talking a Viking. Is there another? The first name that popped into my head because we just did a Buffalo connection. Is there another Buffalo connection to this for the sack? Um, is there a Minnesota, like a gopher can, I'm thinking Bryce pop. You, you nailed it. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Bryce pop led the NFL in sacks for the Buffalo bills in, I think maybe 96. I completely was the reason why I thought of him was because of his connection with and played so many years in Green Bay or played so much time in Green Bay. Oh right. I thought it was kind of funny that he came to the Vikings and was like literally one of their top offseason signings in 2000, which is terrible. That's another thing that's in the story is like,

their off-season was like, they lost Jeff Christie, they lost Jake Reed. There was somebody else, Randall McAniel left. And all they really added was Bryce Paup, some tight end named Johnny McWilliams who I have little to no recollection of. And they drafted Chris Hovann who was basically the guy who replaced John Randall you know as a sort of sack master in the middle there but there was a crazy Buffalo to Minnesota

connection during that time it felt like every former player I think Darrell Talley ended up here at one point Gabe Northern maybe Marlon Kerner, and then Antoine Winfield eventually gets here. There was a lot. Yeah. There was a lot. Okay, carry on. Number three.

In an exciting week six Monday night football win over the Bucs, Tampa Bay trailed 30 to 23 inside five minutes left. Tampa dialed up a trick play that would have KOC would have loved and it would have tied the game. But this guy badly overthrew a wide open Todd Yoder. Who was he? Uh, so you're talking about the, the quarterback. Oh no, no, it wouldn't have been the quarterback. It would have been someone else throwing the ball trick. This guy overthrew badly overthrew Todd Yoder, who was wide open by, I swear, 30 yards and probably would have walked into the end zone.

I mean, the only the only guy I could think of. Well, I mean, work done would have been the running back. At the time, so not work done was not work done, not work done. Who would have been playing? So we're talking about maybe is this trick play. Is it like a reverse to a wide receiver? Is that what we're talking about? No.

Oh, is a running back. So we're talking about, is this Mike All-Stars? It was Mike All-Stars. Oh my gosh. They threw a pass with Mike All-Stars. Look it up. Wow. He's a halfback option pass and it probably would have tied the game.

And you know, who knows what would have happened after that. But with a halfback option pass, I have needed some hints here, but a halfback option pass with Mike All-Stars is insane. Yeah, that was Tony Dungy's bucks. I don't know who was the offensive coordinator for Tony Dungy's 2000 bucks. I don't know that question. Maybe we could look that one up before the end of the episode. There was there was a minute there though where I ran out and bought a Sean King rookie card because I thought he was going to be the guy.

Yeah, I remember he was he was never very like his numbers were not flashy. But the guy he was like one of those guys. You just do how to win. It was one of those. You know, he knows how to win like all right one in 15 Teddy. Yeah. Yeah exactly All right. Next one is number four in the Vikings first loss, which was in week nine at Tampa Bay Strangely back then the Buccaneers were in the Vikings division. So they played them twice An early strip sack of Dante by this fellow led to an immediate Bucs lead.

Who was he? A strip sack of Dante went to a... So we're talking about a Bucs player then. That's correct. Okay well I mean they had... This was right before their defense won them the Super Bowl. Yep. So there's some obvious candidates here. Yeah, there's Warren Sapp would be a guess. And that's it. OK, there we go. Now, the reason why I wanted to this question there is because he's absolutely terrorized the Vikings that year. I have a feeling I didn't watch fully these games. But in the first game, I think he blocked a field goal

that was returned for a touchdown. Warren Sapp blocked a field goal. That guy was a total freak athlete. They could have, they could have drafted him. So he was probably not too thrilled with the Vikings. And was there a more fiery fellow in the entire NFL and that era than Warren Sapp? Like I remember so many things about, like I think he came to Baltimore, I live in Maryland,

and he came to play the Ravens at some point. And they just, I don't remember what year it was, but they pounded the Ravens. And it was probably like, it was probably around 2000 or 2001. And a guy that I knew that covered the Ravens, you know, quoted him afterwards in the locker room He's like he basically like completely ripped Baltimore. He's like even the crab cut crab cakes suck

My god, it's terrible but that guy was a total freak and Was he played with sort of an edge that I don't I you just don't see it in many guys sort of an edge that I don't, I, you just don't see it in many guys period. And every defensive tackle for a really long time was a team attempting to get the next warrants app and they never really did. He was kind of a one of one, because I think he weighed like three 20 and you just don't see people move like that at three 20 and then play with the edge. I mean, him and John Randall had that in common.

I think the personality, like the edge and the violence that they played with, but very different body types. I think, you know, who knows what Sharif Floyd could have become? Like, I don't think he was quite that, he wasn't that kind of a personality, but he was like a similar style player, I think, from the little bit of time that he was with the Vikings.

And I remain like kind of sad that he didn't get to live out his potential with the Vikings, but anyway, sap was just something he was just so unique and so fun and just He could just turn it as a defensive and I mean it's offensive tackle He could turn the game upside down, which is just not something you see from that position very much Okay, one more one more one more Let me pick one here I got two left. Okay two more. All right in a week 10 Antonio Freeman catch game that

was a game the Vikings lost in Green Bay the Vikings should have won on a chip shot late field goal but the snap was bad on first down instead of falling on the ball, the bad snap, this holder scrambled and then threw an interception. Who was he? So would they have had, would it have been Bobby Brister holding? Because the backup quarterbacks used to hold. You're right that they did, but that's not the right answer.

Oh, it's not. That was a good guess, but you're right. Back then that was very common. Would it be Mitch Berger then? Was he the punter? Yeah. Okay. I wanted to see if you would kind of go for the quarterback or if you would remember

who their punter was. So good job. Yeah, I would have thought, because a lot of the backup quarterbacks used to be the holders then. One of my- I don't know when that changed. That's an aside and I won't be long, but one of my favorite parts of one of your podcasts over the last like 10 years

was when you had Sage Rosenfels on and he talked about holding and he talked about it. He was awesome at it. Yeah. Like I love Sage Rosenfels. Like I'm such a, he's like one of my favorite personalities in football media. And that was like one of my favorite episodes, but that's me being a fan boy of your show here. So, all right, last one on Thanksgiving in Dallas, the Vikings win included a big hit by these two guys, two guys that can cussed Emmett Smith, knocking him out of the game. Who were who were they or who was he named one of? Okay. All right.

If they knocked out Emmett Smith that I'm thinking we're talking about either That's well could be defensive lineman could be linebacker could be secondary This is a this is a hard guess. I Had Robert Griffith for an article once and he was awesome. He was a hard hitter. So I'm gonna go with Robert Griffin He's one of them. Yeah, if you can get the other, I'll be impressed. Kylie Wong. Good guess. No, it was Ed McDaniel. So another linebacker. So they, those two guys were a terrific duo that were sort of unheralded, um, sort of Dennis Green developed players,

long development players kind of similar to what we see from, you know, some of these, some of these undrafted guys that the Vikings are able to make into key contributors. Dennis Green used to do that all the time. Like he was amazing at developing talent and turning, turning no name or lesser known kind of prospects into like steady starters. Like it happened constantly with those teams. Yeah, I think Griffith told me a story that Denny, they held some sort of like open tryout or something

and Denny had seen him and wanted to give him a chance and that was kind of something that Denny was just really good at is like seeing a random player and identifying him. And it kind of reminds me of Flores in a way that he's been able to do this as well. Josh, your article is awesome. It is called, is this quarterback deja vu Vikings.

And that is over at purpleinsider.football. Make sure you go check that out. Sign up for the newsletter. Josh is a long time subscriber to the Purple Insider newsletter. So Josh, I appreciate the contribution. Greatly appreciate your support going on this ride together. It feels like with myself and all the long time Purple

Insider subscribers who waited for this moment for a long time, we banged drums and pounded tables for the rookie quarterback contract. And now we are days away from it actually arriving. So thank you so much for your article and for this really fun conversation, my friend. Yeah, anytime. I'm always thinking of trying to think of ways that I could get my byline on Purple Insider and doing this. I'm doing some actual like Vikings journalism was like one of the coolest things I've been able to do. I got to talk to a Super Bowl champion and Brad Johnson. I got to talk to Robert Smith, who was like one of my favorite Vikings of all time. Todd Stussy was like very generous with his time. I also speak with Bobby Peters, who is like a noted guru

of offenses in the NFL. All of them are like so generous to me. And I just absolutely loved the opportunity to do this, man. So thank you. Yeah, it turned out great. I really enjoyed it. And I think everybody who reads it will as well. So Josh, thank you so much. And you want to say football before we? Football.