Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Comparing the Kirk Cousins and Aaron Rodgers COVID situations with ESPN Milwaukee's Jason Wilde

Episode Date: January 1, 2022

Matthew Coller and Jason Wilde of ESPN Milwaukee compare and contrast the way that the Vikings and Packers' quarterbacks have been scrutinized for missing time due to COVID. They also talk about the scenario in which the Vikings win this game and why the Packers haven't been impressive in recent weeks. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to another episode of Purple Insider, Matthew Collar here. I am back at home and not doing an emergency podcast from the airport anymore. I am joined by ESPN Milwaukee's Jason Wildey, one of my favorite people to connect with when the Vikings play against the Green Bay Packers. And is that a Minnesota United hat that you have on, Jason? It is. Yes. My, uh, our 10 year old Sydney, the feeder program is the Wisconsin United and we are affiliated with the loons. So we have become a loon family and, uh, Sydney watches the games and I have merch to go with it.

Oh, very cool. I don't know if, uh, you've gotten a chance to make the drive out here to go to one of their games, but I had a chance to go and it's great. I mean, I don't know a whole lot about soccer because my head is buried in football all the time. If people ask me what I think of any of the other local teams, I'm like, I love going to their games because it's just like a hundred percent football with everything else. But the game that I went to was like in the middle of summer. It was beautiful. I know they're going to that I went to was like in the middle of summer. It was beautiful. I know they're going to play a game, I think, in the middle of winter here or something. But I wouldn't advise that.

But it's a great experience. I really loved it. Yeah, I think we would like to try and find a way to, on our next trip to the Twin Cities, catch a Lynx game and a Minnesota United game on the same trip. We've driven by both venues, but we have not been in them to see those teams play yet. What highly advised season ticket holder for the links here. So both are very, I'm aware. Yeah. Yep. But, but anyway, so let's talk some football.

Is your team doing anything? I just want to let you know before I come on that I am fully immunized. And so I'm ready for the show. Yeah, it's been interesting, that's for sure. And for those of us that went through the month of November with the Aaron Rodgers immunized, vaccinated, testing positive going on the pat mcafee show and spreading his version of uh the truth um it was quite the roller coaster frankly and he has backed up all the other stuff with great play so some of the other things that uh there are those of us who vehemently disagree with um hasn't been a factor because they keep winning and they're on track to be the number one overall seed and it's funny we were talking to Luke Getzey

their quarterbacks coach on Thursday before your emergency airport podcast and I think it was Rob Domofsky our buddy from ESPN.com who who asked him, you know, this is going to sound strange, but is there any part of you that's relieved that all three of your quarterbacks have already contracted COVID-19? And, you know, I understood Rob was trying to ask a delicate question, and he got a great response where, you know, Get, he said, well, I don't know if relieved is the right word, but it's one less stress that you have. And then lo and behold, less than 24 hours later, there's our guy Kirk who apparently the plexiglass encasement did not work.

And now I just, I can't believe that the, and this is obviously your team to cover, not mine, but from afar, you know, as we started to hear rumblings that Rogers wasn't vaccinated, the question was going to be asked actually the Wednesday that he tested positive on November 3rd, but we were, we had all kind of heard rumblings about it and there was going to be a question about it. And I remember thinking before we found out he had tested positive at the time, what if he makes it all the way to the post season and then gets COVID. And I wondered, and I thought immediately of Kirk Cousins and Mike Zimmer and wondered,

you know, this is a team that's going to be on the fringe of the playoffs. I mean, we saw what they did in the matchup at U.S. Bank Stadium and beat the Packers in that game. And I thought, man, oh, man, they could be in a similar situation with a playoff berth on the line. And for it to actually have happened before Packers Vikings it just blows my mind you know that I've I've come to never find anything to be amazing anymore with this team I mean my bar is super high at this point uh Mike Zimmer's eyeball basically fell out after a game

so I don't know like you got to go farther, a protester hung for the roof during the game. I I'm going to need more than a positive COVID test. But one thing that did sort of made me, um, I don't know, uh, furrow my brow a little bit was when they talked about not separating the quarterbacks where they said, well, you know, things got a little bit dicey there a few weeks ago. And we had Sean Mannion and Kirk Cousins in different places and things like that, but everything seems to have calmed down and we put them back together and then Mannion gets it and presumably gives it to Kirk Cousins. And that was the thing that I didn't quite understand is that when he gave this whole

plexiglass speech, which was one of the most surreal press conferences I've ever been to. I mean, I, you know, you think, you think that the guy's going to come out and say like, Hey, it was a bad break. Uh, we have done, you know, some things to try to avoid it the next time or whatever. And then he, he just goes completely off the deep end and starts talking about how they can encase them in plexiglass. And I'm like, Oh boy, when you get COVID, this is going to be thrown in your face. But which is sort of typical of Kirk to say one too many things. But I think that they probably should have looked at the landscape and said, I mean, if Kirk has to miss practice every day and stay home and then show up on game day,

then we should do that because there's a very high chance he's going to miss a game because of the way that the new variant is spreading and people are testing positive more in sports than they ever were before with the original Delta variant and so forth. And so now all of a sudden, like we have vaccinated people who are testing positive and all these other things. And then the NFL's response is like, but what if we tested the vaccinated people less only when they're sick? Okay. Well, this guarantees now that Kirk Cousins is going to get it right. Cause you can't even tell somebody might be carrying it and be asymptomatic. So we, it was a sort of matter of time thing when they told us they weren't separating the quarterbacks. That's, that's part

of it. But there is another part of this conversation that who knows what I said in the airport, if I brought this up or not, I had like two hours of sleep and, uh, you know, just trying to whisper through my mask in a corner of O'Hare airport to break this thing down. But it is a point to be made that both quarterbacks had to miss a game because of a positive test. Both are unvaccinated. So both made the choice Rogers and cousins that they were going to put themselves at risk. One of them still has a chance at the number one seed. The other one does not and may have cost his team, the playoffs. You can overcome missing your quarterback for a

single game. Like cousins is reasonably going to be hammered by everybody. And I get that, but there is a lot of regret to go around here because just down the road, you have a team and you have a quarterback who had to miss a game because of this very topic. And of course it was, you know, a big controversy and everything else, but ultimately it's not going to matter because Aaron Rogers is better and they're, and the green Bay Packers are better and they're a super bowl contender and you're not. And so there, there was always a fine line when you start the season one in three. And when you build a roster on a foundation of sand that can fall apart pretty much at any time, because it doesn't

have a lot of depth, bad signings, misdraft, like it goes beyond. I hate to say it's not all Kirk's fault because that's a very common thing we hear around here, but in this way, it's really not entirely because they had so many other chances that this wouldn't be such a big thing. Had it not been for the other mistakes that were made along the way. Yeah. But the interesting dichotomy between Rogers and the Packers and cousins and the Vikings, there's two parts to it

one um look the packers have had bad draft picks too right i mean goody has missed on a bunch of guys now he's had some good picks as well but if you look at his draft history not great he's gotten a lot of credit for the 2019 free agent class uh but right now they're playing without Zedaria Smith they're playing without Minneapolis native Billy Turner uh their safety play has been good but not great and especially of late it hasn't been as good as it was earlier in the year and Preston Smith has been you know risen to the occasion without Zedaria Smith but he was part of the problem of them not being able to set an edge against the run against Cleveland. And if you were worried about the quarterback that was coming in here, maybe Dalvin Cook and Alexander Madison would have a little more opportunity. I would hope that with

Sean Mannion, a quarterback, you can say, we're going to stop the run and dare this guy to hit Justin Jefferson consistently, and we'll see if he can do it. So part of it is the margin for error because of their record was obviously more significant. They could lose one game in Kansas City, which by the way, at 13 to seven, before the Chiefs had really caught fire, there's no way the Packers lose that game if Aaron Rodgers is playing in it. So the bright side for them is that he got it when he did. And now until two days after the NFC championship game, theoretically, you don't even have to test. They believe that, you know, the science, which he doesn't necessarily believe in, tells him that for 90 days, his antibodies are sufficient. Now, the other part

of this though, and I've always called Aaron Rodgers the great deodorant because he covers up all the other aspects of your operation that stink. And he is in a position where he has played so masterfully that not only has he covered up the defense struggling of late, an offensive line that is missing 80% of its preferred starters, and a wide receiver core that has been without its deep threat that has lost its star tight end, who should have been in the Pro Bowl a year ago. But on top of all that, he has played so well that it has also covered up some of the things he said on McAfee, which have also stunk. So he just creates so much more margin for error for an organization because of his greatness.

And while I was reading a column from, I think it was from Jim Suhan this morning, that talks about what a prolific statistical quarterback Kirk Cousins is, but he's not a great quarterback. Well, I mean, that's the difference between him and Rodgers. Rodgers has the statistics and he has all the other things. And Kurt has the statistics and now the scorn of an entire fan base that, look, they came in here and won last year, right? The Aaron Rodgers-Matt LeFleur combo is 11-0 against Detroit and Chicago,

and 3-2 against Minnesota. So there's no reason to think that they could not come in on a cold night with Dalvin Cook and Alexander Madison against a run defense that is clearly trending downward and with competent quarterback play come in here and swept the season series and kept their playoff hopes alive there's no reason to think that that couldn't happen now you know I obviously have some Vikings fan friends up there and plenty of friends in the media I I don't know I mean you you have to be a very hopeful, wishful thinker in 2022 to think that the Vikings are going to come in here and win with a guy who's never thrown a touchdown pass in the NFL. Yeah. Having seen Sean Mannion practice many times in training camp, I think that he will look like a competent player, but not somebody who's going to go toe to toe with Rogers. And I didn't mean that as a toe pun, sorry. But the, the, but I mean, because you look at the last game that they played and I would suspect that

the Vikings defense isn't any better than it was the last time that they played against Rogers. They can't cover anybody. Now Cam Dantzler is hurt. And so there's another cornerback that's down and you don't have 50 mile an hour winds to help you like the last time at Lambeau. I think that Rogers, even if it's cold, can still throw a football through the cold. That'll be fine. And there, there is absolutely nobody to cover Devante Adams. It is, is a major problem to go against him with this group. They don't have edge rushers. Aaron Jones is going to be able to run the ball. I mean, I don't see them slowing down the Packers offense which is the major problem there because you could

try to win the game by running Delvin Cook and they often do but unless he's breaking 75 yard touchdowns you know it's it's going to be very difficult but I don't think Mannion will embarrass himself it'll be kind of like a a Cooper rush or a Garrett Gilbert or somebody like that. That's a fringe. Yeah. Spurgeon went better than Spurgeon win. I think, I think, you know, it's just somebody that's probably not going to be able to create too many explosive plays. That's going to game manage and that kind of thing. And then you hope to sort of keep Rogers off the field, but these strategies are, they're, they're pretty bleak. You usually need somebody to throw big touchdowns to Justin Jefferson if you're going to win. But I think that your point to circle back to that is really key as we analyze this whole thing, that when we talk about how this

Cousins COVID test is being viewed, a major part of it is that his whole era here has not been a success if kirk cousins had this team at 12 and 3 and then everyone would be like oh dang too bad i was looking forward to watching that game who we playing in the playoffs and right and not only has have they failed on multiple levels as far as building the roster uh you'll see some offensive guards that aren't impressive uh Dakota Dozier is back to whoever is playing on the defensive line for the Packers this week will be thrilled uh but uh you know they haven't built an offensive line that has been successful on the interior especially they have had to revamp their defense but it's been a total system failure in terms of

who they've signed and who they've brought in over the last two years they trade for yannick and gawkway and that and then they trade them away like and then now they're they have no one to rush off the edge and they're moving sheldon richardson out to defensive end and it's just been like chasing their tail a lot and they don't have a deodorant. They have a no sense deodorant. No, that doesn't work either. It smells exactly how it smells with the Vikings roster. And that's what Kirk Cousins does for you is that if you smell great and everything works for your roster and you're healthy and your system works and you don't have, say, a rookie play caller who's been over his head at some times and your defense is good and all those things, say, a rookie play caller who's been over his head at

sometimes and your defense is good and all those things, then Cousins is going to get you a pretty good season. But if there's things that go wrong, I mean, you just named all the things going wrong for the Packers and what's the record. And that's what great quarterbacks do. The Kansas City Chiefs people left him for dead. There were podcasts and shows that I listened to halfway through the the season who are going you know what i think vegas is going to win this division it's like no they're not because patrick mahomes is their freaking quarterback and i think that that is where the the anger is sort of turned up to 11 and directed toward kirk cousins because year after year they've set these expectations year after year. They've come short of these expectations. And yes, he does have a lot of good statistics, but even when you

look at those stats under a microscope, they're not the great quarterbacks in the league. And the history of this league is great quarterbacks winning. It's not average quarterbacks who are highly paid winning. It's great quarterbacks. And I think that it's just like the perfect stage to demonstrate this. Both unvaccinated quarterbacks with some weird opinions in this world, but one is great and the other one is just okay. And that's where the two franchises have been for a long time. Yeah. And again, when you look at what Rodgers has done this season, I mean, I look at last year and he was phenomenal. I mean, I look at last year, and he was phenomenal. I mean, he was magnificent.

The guy completed 70.7% of his passes, franchise record, best of his career, threw 48 touchdown passes, best of his career. Passer rating was one point short of the NFL record that he set in 2011. But, you know, it's a different game to go to u.s bank stadium with nobody in it it's a different game to go to the louisiana superdome or caesar's superdome or whatever we're calling it now um and there's no fans in it and so as good as he was and no doubt he was the mvp last year and deservedly so i i didn't i wouldn't go so far as to say there was an asterisk by it, but there was certainly that knowledge of, hey, it helped him in a couple of games.

He probably wouldn't have had quite as good of numbers, maybe still, most likely still the MVP. But what he has done this year, not practicing with this pinky toe that has run wee, wee, wee, wee all over the media coverage. The controversy, a lot of it's self-inflicted. You know, here's a guy who wanted to host Saturday Night Live, and instead he's being parodied on Saturday Night Live by Pete Davison,

which was not the most impressive acting I've seen, but that's not my area is to critique Pete Davidson. But again, he has played so well. And with all the other potential distractions, beyond all the stuff there, but also, you know, his off season of discontent, the uncertainty of what comes next. The dude is just unbelievable. Like the combination of this offense and him in it.

And I keep going back to this because in fairness to Matt LaFleur, you know, I don't know if he's going to win coach of the year or not. I believe he should. No one has won it in Green Bay while they had Rogers or Favre as the quarterback. Last time that a Packers coach was the coach of the year was Lindy Infante for not going to the playoffs and winning the Bears still suck replay game but this has been the perfect match of a scheme that would give Rodgers the freedom to do all the things that he's capable of but also give him the tools to be even more productive and not have to try and extend plays and make something out of nothing which is what the Mike McCarthy era had come down to late in his tenure and so to me the biggest statement though that makes it clear that they would be

fools and I know Matt LaFleur knows this I know it without doubt, is if they move on from Aaron Rodgers, what does it tell you that the two guys that either are or were, based on some of the things that he tried to pull this offseason, LeFleur's two best friends in football, on the offensive side of the football, Sean McVay and Kyle Shanahan, what does it tell you that both of them who run their own versions of this same scheme, both have been to Super Bowls with quarterbacks, have gone from, hey, this system works no matter who the hell you put in it, to I want the Hall of famer guy that my boy Lafleur has both of them inquired during the off season about Rodgers availability so the fact that

they both did that the fact that Sean McVay moved on then and said well we're not going to be able to do it with golf I got to get somebody better than him and settled for Matthew Stafford the fact that the 49ers again went to a Super Bowl with Jimmy G and said, no, we got to do better and traded a bunch of picks to go up and get Trey Lance. The idea that the Packers would still seriously consider being open to trading Aaron Rodgers and turning the keys over to Jordan Love has to be the best news that Vikings, Lions, and Bears fans could ask for. Because you will get to see how the other half lives, even if Jordan Love turns out to be pretty good. Because the odds are very, very much stacked against him of being great.

So Aaron Rodgers has said he's taking this I'm going to savor every moment approach, just like he did last year. He has made no commitment to what he wants to do next year. But I can tell you this, there's a bunch of coaches that are like, look, I don't care how good Jordan Love's going to be. We need to keep this guy until the wheels fall off. I'll sit through a Ben Roethlisberger season if I have to before I willingly move on from him and turn the keys over to someone else who's not going to be as good.

And this is the only thing that I think Vikings fans are grasping on to with this situation is just the fact that it is possible. Still, it seems that Aaron Rodgers won't be the quarterback of the Packers next year. The whole last dance idea. I have grown skeptical of this now that now all of a sudden with Rodgers fickleness and his ability to also take everything personally that he if they win and they get to the Super Bowl, whatever it might be, that he'll say, you know what? Actually, the way that I could be better than Brett Favre is to never go play for another team. And the way that I can have the love of all the Packers fans. So if you look at it through the lens of Roger's ego, but there's also the part of, hey, man, your team's pretty good.

And if you go play for a coach that's even a little less good than LaFleur, which I think what's so interesting is that there's a test case. Mike McCarthy is clearly not a horrific football coach. He's winning in Dallas, but you have Matt Lafleur come in and get the most out of Rogers in the system. And it's funny. We've talked about this, that the same system that's basically used to pump up Kirk cousins and make everything easy for him as being used for somebody better. And the results are super, super good. But, you know, I think that that's a thing that is on Vikings fans minds of, Hey, what are the, what's going to happen there? And what are they going to do in the opportunity? And that's why I look at it for the Vikings as there is an opportunity within the next few years.

And this is why you draft a quarterback and get an offensive coach because someday he will not be the quarterback of the Green Bay Packers. And the odds of them going back to back to back Hall of Famers are not super high. So there is reason to think that you have Justin Jefferson here for a long time. You can build on the foundation of what you have with two young offensive tackles who are very good and so forth and go forward and put a younger quarterback in that situation. But there's also something you were talking about that coaches do affect quarterbacks and the Mike Zimmer, Kirk Cousins combination. It's like never more on display than what has happened here this year.

You know, most, most coaches, if they're quarterbacks on vaccinated, they're like, yeah, I'm not saying anything about that because they know there's nothing you can do and you can't alienate your quarterback and you can't pull his pants down in public and everything else. Here's Zimmer. Like, yeah, I believe this guy just for the very start. And then Kirk cousins, dad is favoriting things that are anti Zimmer on Twitter and everything else. And you've had them sort of shouting across the bow to each other in press

conferences. It's become our favorite sport outside of football to be like, Hey Kirk, Mike Zimmer said this, what do you think? And do you think the opposite? And then it's the opposite. You know, it's just been all year with this thing. And I think there will always be something left for Vikings fans to wonder if they do move on from cousins of like, what if it was the coach? I think not because he had played because he played for great offensive coordinators and the system has been really, really good for him and he's put up career high. So I, I don't think so,

but I think that that will always linger is what if the coach had actually believed in his quarterback? Yeah. And certainly you see the changes with offensive coordinators and the idea that he has never trusted Kirk Cousins that you can see from you know whatever it is 300 and change miles away here in Green Bay so but but it'll be interesting because I don't I don't remember a time in my youth growing up in Wisconsin where I was plugged in enough as a kid to be thinking, well, someday the Bears won't have Walter Payton or someday, you know, the Lions won't have Barry Sanders. You know, their cavalcade of quarterbacks for both those franchises weren't very good either. It must be strange, though, to be part of a fan base. And this would be for all the teams in the division. Well, I just can't wait till Rogers is done playing

there. And again, that should tell the Packers everything they need to know. I, you know, I'm buddies with Tom Waddle in Chicago and you know, their, their ESPN Chicago and ESPN Wisconsin were under the same umbrella now. And Waddle says the same thing. Do you really want to find out how the other half lives? And you can have a guy that puts up a bunch of good numbers. I mean, you look back on Jay Cutler, he put up some numbers. Tausha and I had Brian Urlacher on the show, and Urlacher said the same thing. I mean, how many people from these other organizations that you continue to beat like a drum have to tell you, don't wait until it's too late to realize how good you had it. How many people have to tell you that before you say, you know what, if even if, even if Jordan Love ends up going somewhere else and being a

really good player for somebody else, it's worth it to not take the risk of living without. Look, I lived through Favre in Minnesota in 2009, and I saw people hanging Ted Thompson in effigy. I saw Minnesota Vikings fans trash-talking Packers fans, thank you for giving us Brett, et cetera. The only thing that saved the Packers from that was 12 men in the huddle, and this is not Detroit, man. This is the Super Bowl.

Because in that instance, Vikings fans got to experience what Packers fans had been experiencing really largely since the back-to-back Super Bowls in 96 and 97, which was swashbuckling outstanding play. I can't believe he made that throw moments and then interceptions that broke your heart in the postseason. And I know there was plenty of schadenfreude for Packers fans in the 2009 NFC Championship game. But in Rodgers' case, look, he hasn't gotten to a Super Bowl in more than a decade either. But I don't know if you can look at their playoff losses and say he lost that game for them. And so that's been more on defenses and him not playing as great as he needed to in some like

he failed in last year's nfc championship game he's got to find a way to get in the end zone late in the game that's on him it's not on nobody else he's the quarterback he gets all the praise he deserves the scrutiny for that and you know throwing matt lafleur under the bus for kicking a field goal not a great look the bottom line is is, though, that he is the kind of quarterback that if he had had the defenses that this is the regret Packers fans have, if he'd had decent defenses a couple of times, he's probably got more than the one Super Bowl. And that can be the Packers fans' regrets. But the last thing you want your regret to be is to see him go somewhere else, not necessarily Minnesota, but actually do what

far failed to do and go win another one with somebody else. And what would be different from him from the Tom Brady thing is that Brady's team basically fell apart and they were horrible. And he had to go somewhere where the team was good again with Rogers. The team is good and they were horrible and he had to go somewhere where the team was good again. With Rodgers, the team is good and they may be in some cap trouble and so forth, but they've got a lot of good bones to the team that he can continue to win with, most specifically one of the great receivers in the NFL. I want to ask you just about this game because there's a game on Sunday night. I've heard that, yeah. I'll be making the trek across the state again into the darkness of Wisconsin and avoiding deer and so forth.

Please drive carefully. Oh man. It there's just always, it's like they come out of nowhere. They're out of the fog of the fields and there's a bunch of deer anyway. How are the Packers going to approach this thing? Because they have not been super impressive, even when the other team's quarterback play is bad. Tyler Huntley, Baker Mayfield. I mean, Baker Mayfield throws three picks,

and he's got a chance to go win the game. And that's not exactly where you want to be. They have not been finishing other teams when they get ahead. And so here you face a backup quarterback in Sean Mannion. But is there extreme confidence that they won't do the same thing against the Vikings? Because it's not like it's not like Justin Jefferson couldn't catch a screen pass and run it for 75 yards for a touchdown either. So I know that, you know that Vikings fans have already written this one in as a loss, and I totally get that, but the Packers have not been playing pristine football

over the last few weeks. No, they definitely haven't. I wrote a column for The Athletic about how their defense is not only trending negatively, but starting to look like the Dom Capers and Mike Patton defenses that were good enough with a great quarterback to get you to the NFC championship game and then let you down when the trip to the Super Bowl was on the line. And now this defense under Joe Barry looks a lot like that. They struggle to stop the run. Their pressure has been good but inconsistent. They have relied on turnovers to be sure their their side of the ball the offensive side doesn't turn it over defense gets enough takeaways four

picks by by Baker Mayfield you look at that like you said three and you still have a chance to go win the game before you throw your fourth like they left that game last week and yes you could easily say well four interceptions five sacks the play to ice the victory and that's a spin that you could do on multiple games with this team and the defense right you could do it with that game you do it with the Baltimore game where they stopped the two-point conversion which was more Tyler Huntley's poor throw than your outstanding defense. The ball ricocheted off of Eric Stokes' face mask. Like, it wasn't him making a great play. Razul Douglas' interception in the end zone in Arizona on Thursday night in October.

If A.J. Green turns the right way instead of the wrong way, it's not a pick. It's a touchdown, and you lose that game. But look, all NFL teams, and no one knows this better than Vikings fans all those games come down to one play right you can go back through all eight of the Vikings losses and I bet in seven at least of the eight you can say if this one play goes the other way they win and the Packers have been on the flip side of that the good side and so I think their defense is in a place where I don't think you can say oh well they've made the play when the game is counted Baker Mayfield not a great throw on the interception Tyler Huntley not a great throw on the interception. Tyler Huntley, not a great throw on the two-point conversion. Kyler Murray, good throw.

Receiver didn't go to the right spot on the game-clinching interception in the end zone. So, you know, they have won some very close games that the Vikings have lost. But no, I don't think if you're a Packers fan, you are worried about losing this game now without Kirk Cousins but I think you are worried about the defense and I don't think that winning this game against the backup quarterback but still letting say Dalvin Cook run for 130 and Alexander Madison run for a bunch of yards too and Justin Jefferson making big play, even if it's a catch and run, will make them feel any better about where their defense is once these games are win or go home. The thing about the NFC race is that every team feels that way right now, don't they? I mean, right, the Rams are coming off a win against the Vikings in which their quarterback through three picks and Arizona looks like their coach doesn't know how to make a

mid-season adjustments. Dallas, Dallas should be feeling really good about where they're at with their offense and defense. But aside from that, I mean, most teams are kind of looking around going, you know, and we've got some problems going into the playoffs. And I, I, I try to remember historically, like we forget that there's adversity through an NFL season with any team that goes to the super bowl, except for the Patriots that went undefeated. Like there's always a loss in there. There's always some tough times in there mixed in. And so we get to the end and we go, I don't know, nobody's good. And then usually it's the one seed or the team with Tom Brady that ends up in the super bowl. So this,

I mean, this game is actually huge to the Packers. And I guess I'm leaving the door open for a shocking Sean Mannion victory that the entire nation is going, how in the world did that happen? But it just, it just feels like this one is so important to the Packers. That one seed is so important that I just have, I have a really tough time with a team coming in that was already downtrodden after losing to Los Angeles and seeing the best case scenario. Is there a coin flip in week 18? That's the best case scenario for the Vikings. And especially too, I don't know if you've ever felt there's something to this because the Packers are just always in the playoffs, but like the preseason expectations, when you get to the end of the year and you're not anywhere close to them,

or you're not, you know, they thought they were going to be a legitimate contender for the division. There's something to it of just like a wind out of the sails. I don't know. We're just not that good. Like kind of feeling that midway through the Rams game. I felt, I felt it in the stadium. I felt it in the players. And then after the game, they kind of just went, yeah, I don't know. I mean, we just, we're just, we just couldn't do it. I feel like the mentality of these two teams is just very different going into this game. Yeah. I think back to some of the years that they were good,

but not great. You know, in 14, they started the year poorly, but then they moved Clay Matthews the inside linebacker rogers caught fire ends up winning another mvp uh plays through a torn calf muscle and then they melt down in seattle but they should have been in the super bowl that year everybody is viewed differently in this organization ted th Mike McCarthy Aaron Rodgers if they go and win that game and then win the Super Bowl 16 you knew they weren't good enough but Aaron Rodgers put them on his back which again goes to what quarterbacks that are great can do the guy they won eight in a row and he played the best football of his career you look 19, and I think we all knew down deep inside that with a first-year

head coach and an offense that was finding its way in a new system, they probably weren't as good as their record. And then San Francisco made that abundantly clear in the NFC championship game. So I don't, it's been a while since we've had that feeling of, oh, you know, they're okay. They're a playoff team, but they're not a real true contender. I think maybe like even 03, when they lost on the fourth and 26 game and they got in on Nathan Poole's touchdown against the Vikings in Arizona. They caught fire at the right time, and you almost felt like, because it was coming after Favre's game in Oakland after his dad died, you kind of felt like they were this team that was almost a team of destiny.

And then, you know, Favre went and threw picks in Philadelphia, and they lose the fourth and 26th game. So I don't know if we've had that much during this two-quarterback, three-decade run that they've had, but I think that, again, speaks to how you feel about your quarterback. Because if you have the guy like Rodgers, you go through those moments as a fan base or as someone who covers the team that has a feel for

the pulse of that team and say well hey they still got rogers and you never know what they're going to do whereas i don't think anybody's going ah they still got kurt cousins so they can figure out a way there's just not that same feeling right yeah that's a good point that no matter where you are even the r- E L A X thing, like the team is pretty down at that point. And it's like, well, you know, and, and it's funny about that because I, when I grew up in Buffalo, I was watching Jim Kelly and Thurman Thomas and all that. And it was the same sort of feeling where they would lose a game or things would go wrong. And, you know, people would be like, oh, well, they're not going to get back to the Superbowl

or they're not going to be good enough this year. But when you have Jim Kelly, you know, people would be like, oh, well, they're not going to get back to the Super Bowl or they're not going to be good enough this year. But when you have Jim Kelly, you've always got a chance to get there. Even when he, you know, we get hurt or something and they had a great enough team where Frank Reich can come in and win a playoff game and those kinds of things. There's always that feeling that, oh, well, we're going to get there. We're going to find a way. And with Vikings fans, they feel the exact opposite way about their team. It's like they're always going to find a way not to get there. We're going to find a way. And with Vikings fans, they feel the exact opposite way about their team. It's like, they're always going to find a way not to get there and for something to be in the way. But when you sort of like look at it in a bigger picture, that's always how it goes. Like there's something in the way for a lot of teams,

but the ones with the great quarterbacks are able to push through or the ones with the cheap quarterbacks who are good. And that's always another part of our conversation. But anyway, Jason, I really enjoyed the conversation. Do you have an expectation for the score for this one? Like how this is going to go? I just, I don't trust the Packers defense any further than I can throw them. And with my bad knee, Dan, you shouldn't throw anybody. I don't – like this feels like with the cold weather, you know, what was the score when they played late in the year in – was it – it was 19 because I was there. 23-10, I think. Played late in the year at U.S. Bank.

It was 23-10. Yeah, it think you're at us bank. And yeah, it was like the Packers weren't that good that night. Either the Vikings had some, there were some moments in that game. If you remember where the Vikings could have made things either interesting or quite frankly, won the game. And you got done with the game and you look 23 to 10,

this game did not feel like 23 to 10. And so that's how this game feels like I feel like the Vikings are going to do just enough and the Packers are going to be just willing enough to keep them hanging around that you're like boy I felt like the Packers really dominated that game but they only won 24 to 13 or whatever it ends up being so that's's kind of my feel. And again, don't forget the Packers, while Kirk Cousins' COVID situation has gotten most of the attention, the Packers have had their issues too.

And they still have some things to decide here in the coming days, whether they're able to get some guys back. Yeah, no, for sure. And Jair Alexander being out of this one is really disappointing for a, we like football and watching it aspect, but a good break for the Vikings to have some opportunities for Justin

Jefferson to create big plays. If man, you can get him the ball. So well, it'll be a time. I mean, it'll be memorable is the game we went and watched Sean Mannion play and Lambeau. So I really glad that we could get together again. We kind of have our, our once or twice a year where we get together and talk about the state of these franchises. And don't ever let any Vikings fans tell you that they don't have their

binoculars all the time. Looking what's green Bay doing. Well, I, I can only hope that by the time the game is over and you've before you're dodging deer on the drive back that I get to do another, we hours of the morning podcast again, like we did a few years ago. I would love that. before you're dodging deer on the drive back that I get to do another, uh, we hours of the morning podcast again, like we did a few years ago. I would love that.

Are you going to be in the press box? I will be. And then I will work from my office downstairs after the game, since we have no in-person access. Uh, but you guys will go right past my office when you go to post game. Yeah. Are you guys,

will you guys be in person for post game? Yeah, I've been told that we will be, that we'll just be doing the typical press conference thing that we've been doing at us bank stadium. So I guess we're going to continue that on. So you'll go right down the hall, right past my office. So I'll I'll, I'll buy you a beverage out of my refrigerator. Oh, I just remembered that we have to go outdoors to get

down there and it's going to be about minus 10 by the end of that game so i am looking forward to that that is one of the most insane trips you have to take down to a press box in the entire sports world it's like oh yeah go outside it ain't you expect it it ain't the metrodome where you literally like walk down the steps and there you were right where you needed to be. Those were the good old days. Yeah. There's a, there's a long trip down from us bank stadium. So at Jason J will be on Twitter. If you're interested in keeping a close eye on those Packers and always fun to

get together, man. Thanks for doing this. My pleasure safe travels and I'll, I'll see you on Sunday night.