Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Could the Ravens hire Brian Flores? (Part 2)

Episode Date: January 8, 2026

Matthew Coller talks about the Ravens firing John Harbaugh and how they could consider hiring Brian Flores. Tweets from Skip Bayless, Mina Kimes, Aaron Schatz and others are endorsing the idea. Mike Florio was on Pittsburgh radio and said that Lamar Jackson could still go. Really? Plus, Kirk Cousins talks with Kay Adams and insinuates that he wants to be a starter. "I want to play." And Ryan Fitzpatrick continues to talk about how Flores was a "dictator" in Miami. Plus starting a new offseason series spotlighting one position group each show. We begin with the defensive backfield. The Purple Insider podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. Also, check out our sponsor HIMS at https://hims.com/purpleinsider Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

fourth and eight brilliant idea yeah well hey now 2022 the passing game checking down there that that feels like uh it's just when you watch some of these other games after this year you go what league are we in like where did we go what is the standard for passing a completing 57% of your passes i mean you watch So these other quarterbacks are at 70% And the accuracy is twice as good And you're like, well, that's a long way to go To get to even a 2022 level of Kirk Cousins

Uh, scruff McGruff crime dog Chicago, Illinois must be, uh, says, uh, Kirk Cousins would just be a one year stopgap and some stability. That's about it. Yeah, I agree with that. I agree. It would be a, give us time to find a real answer situation and maybe even if you're bringing back Kirk to me you're completely done with J.J. McCarthy and maybe you're drafting a quarterback.

I mean, in the in a proper world, you should be taking all the shots possible, which they won't do because they have to win. But in like a theoretical world, that's what you would do is you would just drafted another quarterback because you'd be done with McCarthy. And I agree that it would be a stopgap situation and maybe there's a world where McCarthy sits behind Kirk and develops and maybe Kirk gets hurt, play some games, gets some more reps underneath his belt and then has another competition the following season and takes that big step that everybody's looking for. Like it doesn't have to mean that his career is over, but the world works that way that normally with a starting quarterback who you've drafted in the first

round, as soon as you bench them, that's the end of that quarterback, like 95% of the time. It's rarely like a Steve Young, Joe Montana situation with the starter and the backup. But you're right that it would be just a stopgap. It would be like survive the season, make the playoffs. So let's see. Could you comment on the link I sent the reports that. the Giants, Texas Broncos took the Flores suite to the Supreme Court and now try to

reverse a lower decision. Yeah, I haven't really investigated the latest on that. I'll take a look. I'll take a look at that. The last way that I would just phrase it is that it's ongoing. And the NFL has tried some different things to make it stop going so far. But the legal ease is a little bit challenging for me. isn't that great that I have to be a doctor when there's injuries and a lawyer when

there's lawsuits and all that sort of stuff? Let's see. Zed said rather suck than keep playing JJ and Kirk. Well, that is a fair take. And from your seat and my seat, that's the right take. I think you would rather play J.J. McCarthy all year long and just see what happens and have it go wrong and then really, really know and not have this door still open, then have Kirk Cousins come in here and win nine games.

For sure, 10 games. Like, you would, you would rather do that. And that was one of my main arguments about Rogers. And it was in Kevin Seferts piece, who I'm going to talk with tomorrow for the show about how, like, they didn't go with Rogers because they just thought there were limitations there. I would feel the same way about Kirk. That, like, nothing personal just so everybody knows, but your ceiling. that was always the issue that I had when he was here.

Like, your ceiling is limited. And now, are you willing to accept the limited ceiling? Well, it would be to save your bacon because the pressure is on and you don't get five seasons without playoff wins, usually. Shudur. Now, I'm going to let Shudur continue to be the problem of the Cleveland Browns. Let's see, Ron says, I don't know how you fit Jackson, Borough, or Herbert with the present salary cap dilemma.

Oh, you find a way. You just find a way. There's always a way. The way is an extension. That's what you do, is you can make that work by, if you trade for that person, you give them an extension. I don't know. The Herbert name is out there.

I don't know why. I mean, Herbert doesn't seem to have any bad blood with the Chargers, does he? They're in the playoffs. He's played really well. I think he's probably frustrated, I would guess, with their offensive line. But that wasn't their fault. They just got a bunch of injuries. friends of Taz says the special teams play and drop passes were the reason the Packers are playing

this weekend and not the Vikings. That's not true. That's not true. The Vikings had one of the best special teams in the NFL per expected points added, like top, I think Sefer tweeted out is like top six. So that's definitely not true. Some of the big plays, but you know what? Here's the crazy thing. If your quarterback doesn't play horribly against the Bears and the Packers, those miscues on special teams don't ruin your season. Also, every other team can point to little things that cost them games just like you. You're not, you're not alone in that. Every team in the NFL can go to their losses. How about the Rams? They could go to their losses, be like, a kicker missed one wide right, because maybe he didn't, I don't know, jog enough laps. And they had a kick blocked in Philadelphia is

how they lost that game. Well, I guess they're a 14 win team instead of 12 or whatever. It doesn't work that way it doesn't work that way if you didn't rank 25th in scoring or whatever they finished then you'd be a good team but you did so you're not that's what it really came down to i'm not drop passes too i mean they they dropped they did drop passes but they didn't drop passes at a rate that was much higher than anybody else and the adjusted i've gone through this but i can look it up again we can look it up again you can always do that let's see because pff does an adjusted completion percentage for drops, which is a nice little stat because they like to factor that in.

And where did J.J. McCarthy finish 37th out of 45. So I don't know how much. And look, they might have been closer. They might have made the playoffs. But to kind of rewrite the season that way, I just don't think you could do it. You're four and eight at one point. You just can't really do it.

let's see friends of tas florio reported that a team of the coach that has reached out for harbaugh maybe that's the reason the press oh yeah the press conferences you guys love your conspiracies you guys love your conspiracies i'm not i'm not getting into that i saw way too much of that i'm just not getting into it i'm just not going to go there you guys love your conspiracies though i will say that uh let's see the magic scientists uh uh really don't want to lose Flores and have Rahim Morris at D.C. Stafansky in Baltimore and Harbaugh and Cleveland would be awesome, though. Yeah, I think Harbaugh, if any, if they need a real, like, culture type of coach who's a pro

that can maybe take the keys a little bit away from their owner. And it is interesting that they're keeping their general manager because if I'm the head coach there, I would say no way. or if I'm a head coaching candidate for Cleveland, absolutely no way, am I going to a team that has a general manager there who's been there for years and will likely be on the hot seat and then guess what happens? If you don't succeed in year one, he gets fired, you probably get fired along with them as opposed to a regime that builds together.

I would stay as far away from Cleveland if I'm pretty much anybody as possible unless they fire their GM, which did happen with the Jaguars. last year. That's how they got Liam Cohen. So don't count that out. That is possible. Let's see. Adrian, if Murray, Kyler Murray is released, what does his contract look like for a team to sign him? Will a team pay all of his salary or half? Well, if he's released, then you don't have to do anything. If he's released, he's just released. He's just a free agent at that point, which is very plausible because, oh, I see what you're saying like at the, the offsetting. Oh, the offset. I forgot about the offset. Yeah, there is the offsetting. You're right. When Russell Wilson was let go and then signed with the Steelers, the, oh, I don't know about that if there's offsetting language in a contract or not. I'm sure we would find out. But that is enticing because if you could get him with the offset language and then, and this is where we all have to be like capologists and lawyers, but that would mean that you're paying an incredibly low amount for Russell Wilson. I think what were the Steelers paying like the league minimum or something for him?

and then the Broncos were paying the rest. That's an interesting thought, Adrian, could make Kyla Murray a very enticing pick. The only reason for me not to have Kyler Murray is if you believe in J.J. McCarthy. That's really it, is to not go after Kyler Murray. If you're in the front office and coaching staff and you fully believe in J.J. McCarthy

and his ability to take a next step next year and be coachable and get the offense down and be more consistent and improve. his accuracy and all those things and stay healthy. If you could check those boxes, then you don't touch Kyler Murray. But if you feel like you can't, then you're right about that. If there's that offset language, but even then, how much do you really think Kyler Murray's going to get?

I mean, Justin Fields did get $20 million last year. So maybe that's kind of where you're looking at it. That's where I would be looking. But even then, I don't think the interest is going to be that high in Kyler Murray. I really don't. I don't think there's going to be 15 teams making calls to Murray. I think it's just going to be a couple. Even Sam Darnold last year only had a couple teams looking at them because most teams have their plan to draft a quarterback if they're not going to find a veteran.

But with Murray, you'd be concerned about, you know, the leadership or whatever, the connection with coaches. I don't know. I don't think it's going to be that expensive. Probably somewhere in the range of 30 million guaranteed over two years, which is what Justin Fields got. it was 40 total, so 20 million per year, but you can adjust that. If there's the offset language, though, yeah, I mean, man, that makes a lot of sense. That definitely makes a lot of sense. I shot you 99, highly disagree with the Kyler Murray option.

Murray does not play under center, and I don't want, I don't see him being a great fit for KOC's scheme. I think the scheme issue is a concern. Let's see, can we find? you're right about having to play out of the shotgun all the time although i mean didn't didn't kirk play a lot out of the shotgun early in his first year i mean this offense does you i mean yeah i get what you're saying is it a great is it a great perfect scheme fit for what they want to do i no i don't think so and something in my research for this article i'm working on with all the quarterback options which is taking a long time to get all of them gathered but murray's deep ball has not

been good over the last like three years. He was great 2021, but his numbers throwing the ball down the field have really declined. That could be because of the weapons. It also could be that teams have now started taking away the deep ball. There's a huge decline in 20 plus yard passing over the last couple years, explosive plays down the field, which also, you know, might hurt KOC's offense, but they were able to survive it last year. Where Murray was really good was actually the intermediate stuff, which is a main staple of this offense as well, that's the hard part because, you know, when he played with DeAndre Hopkins, man, that guy had a million catches, but they do like to attack the middle of the field. So is Kyler Murray out of the

shotgun? Can you run as effectively? You make a good point there. The fit is not the greatest, but also when you compare the resume and the talent from Kyler Murray, number one overall pick, who has had good seasons in the past, some of them, I think 20, 24 was a very good season for Kyler Murray when you really go pick it apart. They went eight and nine because they're not a good team, but his season was pretty darn good. It was a top 12 season.

If you go to the next guy, it's Gino Smith or Kirk Cousins, if you need to replace J.J. McCarthy. And if you give me the choice between Kyler, hey, figure it out, work around it, and Gino and Kirk, I think only one of them has a percentage chance where that clicks and you're really good. And that's, that's Kyler.

And he'd be frustrating at times. We know that. And it would be fun at times. That would be a change from this year. But he's the only one that you could actually see being the Sam Darnold that somebody rejected and didn't want and then had it click in. But certainly you're right about the schematic issues, which I would definitely get deep into if they made that move. let's see, cup of Joe, Joe Mamas, is that what that is, uh, says, uh, if Flores stays plus Kyler Murray, that would definitely be interesting, an interesting team and KOC's first

playoff win. It would definitely be an interesting team. KOC's first playoff win. It just, I think the ceiling for a Kyler Murray team, if he was here with the Vikings, would be you win 10 or 11 games and then you go into the playoffs with a chance to win the first playoff game. You have a great defense, offensive line. If you go through Arizona, you're talking about one of the worst franchises in the league. So at very least, you'd be taking a jump forward. Look at the weapons that he had last year, a rookie Marvin Harrison, who's just okay, but certainly

not great. Through to his tight end a lot, Trey McBride, a lot of intermediate and underneath type of stuff from Kyla Murray, you know, a good amount of scrambling, but he didn't scramble as much in the past. He actually played on time a lot more than he did in the past last year when you look at his snap to release time for for passing. I think last year he was a much better pocket quarterback than he had been by the numbers, but it still is a concern of, you know, can you see down the field? Can you throw trusting the timing and the rhythm and everything else? That's something to certainly ask. But if you had a top five to seven defense, think about if you had this year's defense and what Kyler Murray did last year, you're,

you're an 11 or 12 win team. I don't, I think it's going to be hard to repeat exactly what this defense did because you're likely going to lose Harrison Smith, but still, uh, let me remind you of a couple things. Number one, the fan duel question of the day. I know you guys love talking about Caleb Williams and Jordan Love for the Bears Packers playoff game. Uh, you just couldn't have designed it any.

more for Vikings fans not to want to watch. But Jordan Loves over under on Fan Duel is 220.5 and Caleb Williams is 208.5. Which one of those quarterbacks do you think has a better chance of stepping up his game in the post season? Caleb Williams or Jordan Love. And what to remind you about our friends at ZipRecruiter, you guys know, Purple Insider is always growing, looking to take steps forward. And I'm lucky to have my crew, but, you know, as a business owner, I'm aware of the challenges of trying to fine quality people. So if you are in that same spot for your company, give you a little advice,

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Prescription is required. See website for full details, restrictions, and important safety information. Okay. Jim says, let me get a drink here. Okay. Jim says, like your original idea to make KOC and the team live with, live or die with the JJ decision.

So the reason that I changed my feeling on that was what happened the last two weeks. with the injuries. It's really hard to say to them. It's really unrealistic. Like, yes, theoretically, that's the right thing. Because if it crashes and burns, then you know that he was a bust. It's over.

You know that they couldn't elevate him. You know that you wasted these two years of good rosters and you blow the whole thing up. Or the high end is that it works. And you make the playoffs. And J.J. is good. And wow, what a turnaround for the 2026 minutes. Minnesota Vikings, theoretically, yes, that's still a strong take.

And I'm very proud when I have a strong take that's hard to defeat. The problem is that when you now are going on five career injuries and you've missed time due to major knee surgery, ankle injury that keeps you out five weeks, a concussion, and multiple games where you can't stay in because of a hand, how can I look at the Vikings and say, sorry, guys, you got to live with that. You just can't when, who knows whether he'll get better, but he didn't even really play. It, when you're talking about how many passes he had,

what was it, 243 that he ended up with, 243. How many did the league leader end up with drop? I'll just do dropbacks. Of course, it's freaking Bo Nix. Bo Nix, 680 dropbacks for Bo Nix. this year and j j mccarthy ended up with just this is dropback so it includes sacks and scrambles 2191 so way more than double the dropbacks for bo necks than for j j mccarthy and he finished 31st in this i okay crazy stat alert this is crazy this just blew my mind

Kirk Cousins came in for Michael Pennix more than halfway through the year, right? And had as many dropbacks as J.J. McCarthy. Same exact number, 289 to 291. Kirk was a backup for half the year and dropped back to pass as many times as J.J. did this year. That shows you how little he's played football. So that's also hard to deal with. Like, it's hard to, it's hard to ask them to do that. It's just that, that's the thing, realistically versus theoretically.

Theoretically, it's pretty sound. Realistically, you just can't ask him to do it. So that's why we're going through all of the different people. Sorry, I missed, I lost the message of talking about a left tackle in the draft. We could do a draft sim at some point if you want. A left tackle in the draft, I just don't think makes sense. I mean, look, you got to give Derisaw a chance to get healthy. He's a special player.

I would not want to bail. on Christian Derrissau. But it's not crazy. It's not crazy. And it actually speaks to my draft philosophy, which is you don't draft to fix stuff right away. You draft down the road. But I think no matter what,

they do need probably a top corner, a center. But, you know, like I said, it's not insane. If that's the best person on the board and you're thinking long term about left and right tackle, you could do it. But the Vikings are put in a position

and look at how. how they drafted this year with Donovan Jackson, who I really, really like, and I think he's great. But a guard is a draft pick to fix something right now. And if they're already doing that, then they're probably looking at doing that into the future as well. Mr. Mayor, I wonder if the Flores lawsuit has changed the league's hiring practices. Seems like there's a lot more person of color coaches now.

Oh, I think it has. I think it had a very serious impact of saying, like this is enough man this is this is enough like we're really going to do something about it now and there was the and i think they didn't do that this year i don't know why but there was an event that they had that matt daniels was involved in i think a keenan mcardle for um coaches to get together with owners and executives and meet them to just to just try to make those connections So stuff, stuff has been done more, I think, in recent years. Is it fixed?

No, but you're right that I think there are more candidates and more coaches that are getting opportunities because Flores put the light on that. Zumer, K.O. Every single coach studied Flores in his defense last off season and learned to copy it. Still, his was fresh and elite. Yeah, I know. And he was able to adjust in the middle of the season to some new players. uh, Caleb, is it just me or does, uh, K.O, uh, seem like KO is irritated, annoyed and doesn't like

JJ much, press conference, etc. He has, uh, the whole season thoughts. Yeah, um, I think any time that something is not working, you're going to be frustrated. And I have wondered about, like, the connection between those two, but think about when you've seen those things. It's when he was out and unavailable and people are saying did you bench him and all those types of things right i'm i'm sure that was very frustrating to him that he was being accused of of benching you know McCarthy and yeah i mean the not you know the the the end zone thing coming out dancing into the end zone thing coming out was certainly some evidence there but anybody who can't stay on the field i also think that the theatrics of mccarthy with the injury it's just not how it's done in the

NFL. And Kevin O'Connell, I don't, I mean, he's been in the NFL for so long. I just don't know that he's looking at this and going, this is how a superstar quarterback like Matthew Stafford acts, which is a lot to ask for somebody who's young and hasn't done it before. But you could see where that frustration, the performance, all the weekly injuries and drama, it would add up on you. And these coaches, they work, you know, 19 hours a day or something. But that's a factor. How much he likes him as a factor. I just don't want to sit here and say, I know that O'Connell doesn't like him. I think that what you're picking up on, it could be that he's frustrated with him. It could be that the season was just not anywhere what they thought it was going to be. Miles says, Matthew,

there has there been any reporting on why we opted for J.J. over Darnold, did KOC mess up the assessment? Or was there Quasi Adolfo Menta pressure via cap considerations? Yeah. So I, I, don't think that this is really a mystery of why they went to J.J. McCarthy. It was their plan all along. And when those last two games went the way that they did, they looked at the roster and you can see it right there. And I really don't think that they've hit from this in their public commentary that you look at the roster last year and you go, why did the Rams win that playoff game

versus the Minnesota Vikings? They won that playoff game because they had a better defensive line that the Vikings had an offensive line. And because the Vikings could not pressure Matthew Stafford up the middle, that also mattered because they didn't have a run game that they could counterpunch with, right? And also, if you go back to Sam Darnold's history, Kevin O'Connell looked like the guy who whispered it into existence. Now, some of us may or may not believe in quarterback whispering, but that's what it looked like. It looked like. It looked like. we could take a talented but flawed quarterback who hadn't had a lot of success and plug them

into our system, our weapons, new offensive line that's better, running game that's better, defense that's elite, kicking game that's really, really good. And as long as he can do anything, it will be similar results. He doesn't have to play exactly like Sam Darnel, but it will be similar results. And I don't think they thought they were going to win the Super Bowl this year, but they thought they'd be right there. And what they did not factor is that Sam Darnold is actually just really good. That's one. Number two, and so a lot of that success was just Sam Darnold and this thing that's attached to his body on the right side. It's one of the best arms I've ever seen in my life. And a lot of the plays that he made last year are just a dude

having an insane arm and it's not just arm speed like throwing the ball it's the the ball would just glide it would just cruise through the air it was it just was crazy to watch him and sam bradford the two guys where i was just like i can't believe how these throws the parabola of it the the smoothness of it and he was able to make a lot of those plays under duress and everything else but it was the perfect it really was the perfect fit for an offense that wanted to go downfield and required anticipation throws all the time. But what they thought was, if we bring back Sam Darnold, and we do not improve the roster in these areas, we will end up with nine wins.

And then everyone will say, why didn't you just go with J.J. McCarthy? That was their thinking. And with McCarthy, we also have to go back. And if you can do this if you want, if you've got time, go back and watch me and Dane Mizatani talk after the Vikings first preseason game. in 2024 where McCarthy plays. And because I did this not that long ago. And what I was saying and what Dane was saying was,

this may be a preseason game, but this is everything we've seen in practice from him. We've seen him throwing bullets. We've seen him using his athleticism. We've seen him getting better. We've seen the teammates galvanizing around him and already kind of feels like he's the guy for this franchise. And O'Connell, which,

I'm sure he regrets it now, but when he said, it feels like we've got our franchise quarterback, he wasn't BSing. That was the feeling from everybody there. And then you have a catastrophic injury, which I think they thought he would pick up right at that spot and he didn't. He had to go all the way back to square one. And then you're talking about, uh-oh, we got to get a guy ready this fast. And they only got to see him before they made the Rogers decision. they only got to see him at like rookie well not rookie but maybe a mini camp maybe an oTA and then rogers

kind of needed a decision from the vikings was like well you know like what do you do here you liked everything that you saw from 2024 and you felt like this is all he's got to do he knows the offense he's been working on it he's been watching darnald run it he's just got to pick up where he left off and the NFL is super hard. So that's maybe the part that they didn't factor in was also that just because you've got the money, think about who their best signings were this year. Eric Wilson and Isaiah Rogers and trading for Jordan Mason,

I think was a really good idea too. Those were not expensive moves. The expensive moves oftentimes are not the ones that work out the best. I just noticed this the other day. And Milton Williams has been good with New York. England that like jalen redmond has i think as many or more pressures than milton williams for 25 million it's not always the most expensive van ginkle was not the most expensive move byron murphy was not the most expensive it's not always that guy because oftentimes if that

guy's getting let go there's a reason and i think that maybe they didn't think of that either uh let's see magician asking a similar question you think uh kOC dislikes McCarthy seems like a good dude, but I could see his personality rubbing people the wrong way. Here's what I think. So I, as far as like how someone is good, dude, bad dude, I don't like to get into that, even if I know the person, because I don't really know the person. Like, I've been around Justin Jefferson long enough for Harrison Smith to be able to say pretty definitively, but even then you never really know what someone's like outside of when

the media is around. So I don't like to try to get into, well, I think he's a great guy, I think he's a bad guy. that always kind of, I don't want to be wrong about that. So I never want to say for short. But what I think is that J.J. McCarthy feels to me like, I'll give you an example with some interns that I've had. Those of you who have listened to this show for a really long time would remember intern Paul and intern Haley. Intern Paul was a 38-year-old man in a 21-year-old body.

I don't know why he was really mature he totally got it like our environment we have our own little culture as well journalists do he just totally got it right from the very beginning and I was like this this kid's a pro already and he needed to work on his skills but he was a pro already I've had other interns that I felt like did not get this at all and and Haley was just so freaking smart that you know whatever but she was she was so mature that she went and worked for the Detroit Lions in their front office. And that was a couple of years ago. I don't even know if she's 25.

Like, you know, some kids are like that. Here's me calling them kids. But right? Like some people come out of college. They've got it figured out. You've known people like this in your life. They've got it figured out. And there are other people who come out of college and need time to figure it out,

where they're going, what they're doing in their life. And I would say that even for myself. I didn't really get into the journalism world. until probably 24, 25, somewhere in that range before I got my first job. And that time in between, I don't know if I was totally ready for that. And I think with McCarthy, I'm not sure that he's more like intern Paul, where he just understood the environment right away with his personality of where he was at. That I think might be a bit of a disconnect with a head coach,

who's coach Kirk Cousin, Sam Darnold, Matthew Stafford, guys who are just locked in pros from day one. And he did, I think, carry himself very professionally in 2024 training camp. And I don't think that he's been unprofessional here either. I think that there's just a bit of a gap between where you need to be as a leader of a franchise and the things that you do and the things that you say. And maybe just understanding a little bit better that the world's not going to sort of sit around and just tolerate whatever from you, bad play or dancing into the end zone when you're not supposed to or whatever, unless you perform. That's the NFL when he says like, oh, well, you know, I'm only this age or whatever.

It's like a lot of quarterback's careers end at that age, bro. Like you have to kind of realize that the franchise will not wait around forever for you. and that if you're the head coach of the football team tells you not to do something, you do not do that something. And if you're Brett Favre and Mike Holmgren says, hey, Brett, don't run here and you do, okay, that's a little different

because you're one of the great quarterbacks of all time. If you're a young quarterback like this and you've proven nothing, you have to follow the steps of what your coach wants you to do. And it just feels like, how did somebody put it to me the other day that he kind of, it feels like he thinks he's sort of

the main character in a movie with some of the stuff that he says and ways to act, which is like, you know, a younger kid. But this is, this is real life, you know? So, and the theatrics that Ben Lieber referred to, that's what I kind of thought. And I thought a lot of this stuff is just young and inexperience and you go through it and you learn. And if you had five years to learn this, it's, it's not a fair world. It's not a fair world that Brian Flores isn't a head coach.

It's not a fair world that J.J. McCarthy didn't go to a team. that was going to take their time with him. They went to, he went to a team that was very quickly going to get in a spot where they needed him to be great. That's just, that's just my read on it, trying to figure out who likes who, who doesn't like who based on press conferences, it's a body language. But I mean, if you were KOC, you'd be frustrated where you start him and then he gets hurt and then he comes out and then he doesn't, but he doesn't tell, or he doesn't tell you at first, and then he just fumbles. And a KOC cares about every single win, right? this isn't the Minnesota McCarthy's I mean KOC's here to win and you go give up a fumble touchdown because you didn't tell

the training staff your hand was hurting it's like what so you know and then making such a big deal out of it on the sideline the other day like no one the cameras are on you maybe and trying to look like you're Mr. Ra Ra it's just not how it's done in this environment I think you can learn those things of how things are done in the NFL but it's really hard to do under this situation. So I have never gotten the sense that the locker room doesn't like him or they can't stand being around him or something like that. I've never gotten that kind of sense at all. It's just to me, somebody who needs to be in there, needs to go through things, needs to learn

about what works and what doesn't at this level and what the best pros can do. And he was just not really given the time to do that. So that's, I don't know, it's like a convoluted, explanation. But I think that there's something there that you guys are picking up on. I just don't want to go to, oh, I just hates them. Like, because that's, that's not right. That seems unfair. And your maturity, you know, when you say someone is immature, it sounds like they're a drug dealer or something like, he's just immature. He's out there causing havoc at the mall. Like, that's, that's not really it. Like, maturing can also be in an individual environment, like maturing on the job. So as a reporter, my first job.

covering the American Hockey League was great for me because I made some mistakes as a reporter there, but I did them while covering the HL, not covering the NHL. So, you know, you guys wouldn't be destroying me on Twitter or something for asking bad questions or making mistakes as an HL reporter. But if I was doing it at the NHL level, you see what I mean? Like minor league baseball players probably make, oh, I know they do because I broadcasted minor league baseball some of the funniest mistakes ever but they don't get they the team i was doing broadcasting for batted out of order one time and you're like what but stuff like that happens in the

minor leagues you never hear about it you never see it's not on twitter or whatever people aren't getting roasted the NFL is the only league right where we take younger guys who might not be ready to be in this environment or lead an entire six billion dollar franchise and are just like all right off you go with you know 700 passes in college so it also just tells you like the college environment how they teach quarterbacks to lead and all that stuff it's just not what the NFL is all it's it's very interesting but it's very hard for me to really put my finger on it exactly and say I'm sure that it's this because I'm not sure uh Caleb is also interested in Kyler looking at the numbers, not that bad.

Also, Mac Jones. Well, that's the thing about, about Kyler Marie is when you, when you actually go back and look at last season, if you take, just take a minute and go look at what he did last season for Drew Petzing there when they were trying, you can't look at that performance and say, oh, well, he stinks. This is awful. No, you'd say this was a pretty decent season for him. And with Mack Jones, I would say the same thing for when he got his first opportunity as

a starter and the way he performed here it's all good enough to get you in the mix but it feels like it would take a miracle to get you beyond in the mix um let's see adrian says what what i have problem with uh quacy's drafts is his first round picks aren't the issue it's rounds two through seven let's just take a quick look let's just take a quick look at rounds two through seven and i mean how many picks have they even had and we've got a few picks that have worked out but how many picks okay so you're just saying rounds two through seven clearly 2022 blew up with Andrew Booth ed ingram Brian Osamwa Caleb Evans Assasia Tomalow tied Chandler Vedarian low and then in the sixth round Jalen Naylor shows up and Nick Mews who they developed over several years and then left

so yeah that's that one is the nightmare just absolutely horrendous draft jalen aler's a good player that's the only one that's worked out but past that so they had a lot of picks that year they had 10 picks past that they had six selections in 2003 they took uh j ward who's worked out mckeye blackman started for a different team in round three they didn't even have a second round draft pick Jaquail and Roy, who did nothing, Jaron Hall did nothing, Dwayne McBride, who did nothing. So they got one day three guy in J. Ward

who's become a contributor and might be a good player. And for some reason, they just didn't want Mackay Blackman anymore. I don't understand that still. 2024, they, obviously the tragedy with Kyrie Jackson, I think was very promising. But they drafted 17th and didn't pick again until 108th. Like, when you're talking about this,

oh, it's the other rounds. When did they pick? what do we call those other rounds we call them dart throws if you're not throwing the darts then you then you're not hitting the most bulls eyes and it's hard to accept because i'll you love the draft you guys all love the draft so much and you you expect them to find some of these players but go back go through any team and like how many per selection if a team has 10 picks on day three, and they get three right or two rights. It's going to be like, wow, great job.

But that's about the rate. It's about, what, 10 to 20 percent? Michael Juergens, Levi Drake is a significant player, and Will Reichard might be the best kicker in humanity has ever created. I mean, right there, like, you need to adjust what your standard is. But if you draft in the seventh round, a solid backup center, the number one kicker in the league and a starting defensive tackle like you've done a pretty darn good job compare in comparison this is this is my point and then this year my goodness tie felton who i think can be a good

player tie ingram dawkins coby king who they got rid of gavin bartholomew who was hurt that is what four draft picks i mean this this is this is my thing i just keep coming back to like you're not going to hit on them if you don't have them so if you want to say this is the, to me, this is the right framing of the drafting for the Minnesota Vikings. Overall, they have done right on as well as you'd expect for first round draft picks. Let's just put McCarthy aside. It's a whole different thing. That's, that's the head coach. That's the organization. That's just the guy you had to pick because four other quarterbacks were taken also. Let's put McCarthy aside from the discussion. You miss completely on scene.

Dallas Turner has now, now looks like a player on the rise and had a good. good season led the team in sacks had more sacks than jared verse so let's say it's a good season and donovan jackson to me as a player on the rise and had a good season so three out of an addison we know has been in the star level this year was not great the quarterback play and he didn't play that well but addison is is a hit so they've drafted what how many first rounders is that five how many did i just count seen addison McCarthy turner Jackson. So that's five. McCarthy decision is different as a quarterback, whatever. Out of the other four, we've got one guy that was a horrific bust.

One guy who's shown a ton of potential is on the rise, another guy who's shown a ton of potential who's on the rise, and another guy who became one of the better wide receiver twos in the NFL. And when you're saying, well, it's the rest of the draft picks. And my question is, where are the rest of the draft picks? Well, they've been traded away for Cam Acres four times or for Cam Robinson. or for whatever. And not only that, but you have to consider, too,

that they have just not had any comp picks, which I make fun of a lot, but it's only because people ask constantly, do we get a comp pick for that? I'm like, can we just wait till they announce it? But if you don't get any because you're constantly signing players,

as opposed to letting go players who sign elsewhere, what happens? You don't have a lot of draft picks. So all of what's happened here is the accumulation of an all-in, mindset to a window because that's what you do when you are all in on a 14 win season or going back to the Hawkinson deal where you're all in on a 13 win season or when you are looking at your roster going, I'd love to develop Mackay Blackman, but he's not the

best player right here right now, so get rid of him. Or I'd love to develop Nashon Wright, but he's not the best player right here right now, Fabian Morrow. Those are decisions from a team that really thinks they're going to win the Super Bowl. They're, it's not long distance. It's not a five-year approach. It's a, we set this all up to win right here. And that's why it is so crushing when you're sitting home watching the playoffs and you've done that.

But in terms of like how many late round picks they've hit versus how many they've had, I mean, somebody else can do this if you want to, but, you know, a nailer, a Jay Ward, a Will Riker, a Levi Drake Rodriguez, a Michael Juergens, like this is, this is what you expect it's not very often and some of these guys the book's not written yet um but that's about what you expect like there wasn't digs just doesn't happen very often though you do need to get one of a but they picked michael pruit before digs to show you how much in that same round how much these are just dart throws is that they pick michael pruit in the same round before digs so they didn't know they had no idea they'll just tell you later that they did

uh does van ginkle leave with flores no he can't he uh sign an extension maybe eventually but he signed an extension yeah i mean scruff mcgruff says need to figure out the middle rounds so what are the what's what do we call the middle rounds like three through five one two three four five six they've had six selections in those rounds six since that disaster 2020 draft six what's your odds of hitting on picks you know three through five rounds not very much so that's the thing what you i think what you guys are saying is you need to collect draft picks take a lot more shots at it which would be a good idea if they were in a different spot i'm not defending the idea in general the idea in general of trading back collecting

more picks, developing players, is a great idea. And if we go back, so yes, 2020 was a disaster. But when they take over this regime, the idea was the competitive rebuild. If the idea had been a full rebuild, wow, I mean, that would have been really, really bad, of course. But if it had been a full rebuild, you're probably drafting a bunch more times in 2023, a bunch more times in 2024. You're probably drafting higher in 2024. here's how I know, Chicago picked at the top.

I know that was the trade with Carolina, but you know what I mean? Why did they get the trade with Carolina? Well, because they made tanking moves to do it, right? To be in that position. So the point just being is that if you want to get hits on draft picks, you have to collect a bunch of them and be Detroit or be Chicago, where you've just got a million of these selections. And you can miss, if you're Detroit, on half of that,

draft but no one remembers it because you hit on some too but you picked 10 times in the first you know 100 picks or whatever and that's exaggerating a little but i i've gone through this you know a number of times but they've had half the number of top 100 picks from the packers it's just harder it's harder to do it that way that means you need to nail it uh scruff mcgruff Sean McDermott reminds me of San Diego Marty Schottenheimer yeah it's a good yeah it's a good one. That's a good one. I think Alan, this is crazy to say, but I think Alan is a little bit better than Rivers or chances are better. Mr. Mayer says, I'd say Flores is a better defensive coach than KOC is an offensive coach. Would you have said that a year ago? I mean, like, I think Flores is probably

the top three defensive coach. So yeah, you could say that. But I mean about Kevin O'Connell, would we have said a year ago that O'Connell, at this time, one year ago, would we have said O'Connell doesn't know how to coach an offense? Like, probably not. It's the execution of the quarterback is just everything. And one of my favorite stats there is that Kyle Shanahan had, who is the best, the best. I, you need to win a game from an offensive coordinator. I will take all guys drafts, uh, who are coaches. I will go Kyle Shanahan. But he's had three or four different times where his team finished 20th or lower. And why, what do you think that caused that playing Nick Mullins in San Francisco

or having Johnny Mansell slash whoever the hell else was there? Like that kind of thing. That's, it's, that's always the case. Let's see. Is this, uh, Kylie. Kylie. My husband is a Ravens fan. This is his dream to get Brian Flores.

Well, I mean, this is a thing about these teams. not hiring him if the if they don't at least look at Brian Flores they're doing their disservice because he is a pretty darn good coach uh Ryan Jonathan Gannon could be an interesting replacement for Flores I think Gannon is in his right spot as a defensive coordinator I think he's good at it last year I think he did a very good job at it but was not really a head coach that's a different type of story so I agree with you though that he's someone they would definitely have to look at see you guys are really on fire tonight uh mr mayor will the raiders ever turn into a competent

franchise you know normally i think that the answer should be yes like they're drafting number well that's what it really is about right they're drafting number one they're going to take fernando mendoza more likely than not maybe dante more but probably fernando mendoza and whether he works out or not will determine it if you go back i was thinking about this the other day so remember when in training camp or right before week one that big tyler dunn piece came out about the Bears and just tore them limb for limb with their handling of Caleb Williams, how Caleb responded, all that stuff. And what did we think? Did we think we'd be watching a Bears home game in the playoffs that day? Of course not. But Caleb Williams took a big step

forward. All their tanking came to fruition. They got the right coach. And now they went from one of the biggest joke franchises to great. Jacksonville, same sort of thing. thing. And their draft pick didn't even work out at the top right now. But they got the right coach. Their quarterback took another step. They figured things out. You can go from the biggest joke to pretty good, really fast, if you're not the

Browns. But even the Browns, Stefansky got them into the playoffs a couple times. That's how the league is set up. And that's why teams tank. The Jets are really the one that is almost freakish. The Jets are freakish in their ability to be incompetent. It's insane. Like this year is one of the worst seasons.

I think any teams ever played football in the NFL at the last 25 years for sure. And they're keeping Aaron Glenn. Wow. I mean, that's crazy. Let's see. Scruff says if you trade anything more than a day three pick for, I assume anyone, then you're done with McCarthy. You know, I think if they trade a day two pick for Mac Jones,

they don't have to be. Because if McCarthy wins the job, then you just have Mac Jones as a backup and he's been a backup for the last two years. So, um, Sam says, uh, Kyler and who else are the clear starters over JJ, uh, to me, the only two guys that would be if you get them, then, okay, that's just your guy. No matter what, if you get them, that's your guy are Kyler Marie and Kirk Cousins. Kirk is not coming back to mess around as a backup. I just can't see that unless he gets no other offers whatsoever, but the way he played this

year. I think he will. And Kyler is clearly a starting quarterback in the NFL for somebody. A team started Justin Fields this year, they'll start Kyler Murray. Gino Smith, though, is the level down where it would be competition. I think those are the only two guys, unless it's Burrow and Lamar, that goes without saying. I think those are the only two guys. Buying the dip. Okay, that's what it was. I was looking for a half an hour ago, a saying from the fantasy world. It's buying, buying the dip. Yep. Not a twerck says I can't picture anyone replacing my memories of Jeff George.

Well, you know, Sam tried last year. Didn't Sam Darnold do a lot of the same stuff? A guy who had been a bust and then came to the Vikings and threw it all over the yard. Adrian says Jimmy G was carried by a dominant run game and the best defense of the NFL. There's a reason why they called the receiver group the yak boys. No, look, I understand Jimmy Garoppel was not. a great quarterback. I think he was a good quarterback, though.

But everyone who makes this, this is the problem. Everyone who makes the Super Bowl, their team is good. So everyone who makes the Super Bowl, you can say, well, that guy's just carried by his team. It happens with Jalen Hurts all the time. I've said this many times on the show, that you will know you made it. Your quarterback has made it when people are saying he's not that great. He's just carried by a great team. then your franchise has done it then you've done it if oh brock purdy he's not that great he's just carried

by his team oh jalen hurts he's not that great if they were saying that about mccarthy you guys would be well you'd be really ticked off probably but also i would be telling you hey this is great for you that means you built an awesome team and your quarterback's playing well because that's what we do in football is just say everybody's a fraud or whatever like it's just different levels if a young quarterback doesn't succeed right away he's a fraud if he gets to be good at and he doesn't win the Super Bowl, he's a fraud. If he gets to be great, but he doesn't win the Super Bowl, then he's a fraud. It's like, it just, it's a circle of calling everyone a fraud all the time.

But if Jimmy Garapolo is good enough to go to the NFC Championship and the Super Bowl, you had to do a lot right to get there because the Minnesota Vikings franchise has barely gotten there with all these good players and mostly good coaches and stuff. So I'm never going to be the one who says a guy who took his team to the Super Bowl and NFC championship. just like ah yeah he's just a guy i think he was more than that but now gropolo is i think he was a perfect fit with his coach i think that's what really it was but now gropos is much older and has had some serious injuries he takes a lot of hits so uh jesus

would want murray oh malik willis i'm sorry i did not include malik willis as the other one if you sign malik willis he's your guy because you're you're gonna have to pay for him probably a decent amount of money. So if you have to, if you sign and pay Malik Willis, he's your guy. He goes on that list. Yep, for sure. Let's see. Sam says, let's say the Vikings bring in Mac Jones or someone of that caliber to compete

for the job. Do you think it's actually a competition? Or do they still go with JJ if it's somewhat close? They would go with JJ if it's somewhat close. That's why I brought up the EJ manual and Kyle Orton situation. Because usually the young guy wins that job at first and then they see how it goes. And then if he struggles, they have the other. guy to go to. And anybody who comes here, that's why you might have to trade for Mac Jones,

because anybody who comes here, any other quarterback is going to know that it is, it is favored for J.J. McCarthy, unless they're out on him. And we talked about that a little bit. They might, I mean, they might be. I don't know. I don't think they should be, but they might be. If they're just out on him, then it's different. Then it's Daniel Jones. Oh, he's another one. Okay, so there are more than just Kirk and Kyler. Daniel Jones is another one. He ain't coming here to be a back. up, as we learned last year. Let's see. The magic man says if Mendoza is there at 18, do we take them?

I don't see any chance that's happening. Theoretical world, absolutely. Just not going to happen. Not the way that he's played this year. He's played like a pro. I think he has top 15 potential. And what Bo Nix and Jalen Hertz and guys like that show you is that and Jordan love is that even if the draft.

Illuminati does not see you as being the highest ceiling or whatever. If you have the right situation, right coach, right team, you know, it can work. Even if the pre-draft stuff doesn't say you're an instant superstar or over-drafted or whatever it might be. So, uh, let's see. Jay says, will Quasi be fired before the draft? I would be surprised by that. But if it happened, I would just look around and say, well, John Harbaugh got fired.

If, if you disappoint and you miss the playoffs and you come up short and you make as catastrophic of an all-time mistake as letting go a guy who won the conference and also not drafting the other guy who won the other conference, well, sometimes heads roll. And if that happens, then that that's the league. That's how the league works. So what I, I would not be shocked by anything. that happens just i mean in the NFL in general because it's all happened with last year wasn't it mike mccarthy and uh jerry jones were like talking for a while and then they just let him go and hired brian schottheimer which everyone hated but then i think he did a good job like i don't know there's a wide range of scenarios but normally if you set a bar at a certain spot and then make a

catastrophic mistake at the biggest position in football, um, there are consequences, whether that's hot seats or, or whatever else, uh, two Coke cans. Okay, I get the reference and come on, man. Says, uh, why, why would Durante Jones be the in-house replacement for Flores, if anything, Marcus Dixon makes the most sense. Um, I think, uh, Durante in his experience is probably a big part of that. And also, like, him and Flores, I think have really been attached at the hip. And him and Harrison Smith have been majorly instrumental in designing it. So that, that would be why I would say Durante. But, you know, I mean, everyone on the defensive staff has done a good job. They have other candidates there. I just think Durante makes the most sense.

let's see jay said would you all want uh downs at safety or love running back this is the thing about some of these top players you're now drafting 18th you want to do that before we wrap up you know i was going to do um i was going to do a spotlight because i got to get back to writing this article about the quarterbacks i was going to do a spotlight position thing tonight but you guys have had such good questions and comments i haven't gotten there let's go look at uh let's go look going to draft sim. Why don't, why don't we do a draft sim? Let's do that. Let's get to the, uh, PFF mock draft simulator. And, uh, I like to say teams draft for needs.

Let's do three rounds. And in terms of positional value, I'm going to say a lot. The league is good at that now. Randomness. Let's go less, even though it's all random. All right. Uh, hopefully you guys can see that. Okay. I think I, you know, I think I got it right. All right. So let's get into this mock draft here. I'm not. not going to make any trades now. We'll have lots of time to do that. Let's just look at who's on the board now at 18. Just a couple weeks ago, we were drafting up there, up here, and now drafting down here because of those wins. So on the board right now, the top guys by PFF, which is, you know, sometimes they differ quite a bit from the rest of the NFL or the rest of the draft people,

but just taking a look at positions of need for the Vikings. I don't think edge rusher is a position of need. The top guy on their board is Cassius Howell. Let me look at who was drafted already. So in this mock, Fernando Mendoza and Dante Morgal one and two, Caleb Downs goes three, very realistic, and Jeremiah Love goes four. That's why you guys are going to have to readjust your names that you want now that the Vikings are drafting 18th because guys like Caleb Downs and Jeremiah Love

are not going to be there. they're going to get taken there was a chance they could drop to like 10 but they're not going to be there in this situation so let's see arvel reese amazing freak player from ohio state goes to the giants carnell tate love to watch him he goes to the browns we got jordan tyson a wide receiver to washington rubin bain who i really enjoy watching play football peter woods is another one that was thrown out there for the vikings but i think again you're just going to have to readjust now that you're drafting in the middle, defensive tackle from Clemson, Mackay Lemon, Sunny Stiles, David Bailey,

another guy, Mansour Delaney from LSU that I was mock drafting a couple of days ago, and now I'm not, because they're picking 18th. And the same goes for Jermad McCoy, who is a cornerback from Tennessee. So a lot of talent, and another corner, Avion Terrell, off the board. So a lot of talent at the position that I liked, and I won't make a point about winning games that don't matter because, you know, it is what it is.

So on the board right now, Caleb Banks, the defensive tackle from Florida, is the, let's see, 17th best prospect by PFF. Defensive tackle is definitely a position I could see them looking at because I don't think Javon Hargrave is going to be here. We mentioned the idea of a tackle, but you'd really have to be thinking long term for that. I've seen Caden MacDonald play. This guy is a freak at stopping the run, which they could really use. So I don't hate that idea. Caden McDonald's defensive tackle from Ohio State.

And I think the run stuffing freak like a Vita Vaya, how big is this guy? Yeah, 6.326. If he's like that, that's got a lot of value. Do you have some wide receivers in the mix. We've got a guard here. They don't need that. T.J. Parker. Kenyon Sadeek now becomes very interesting.

A couple of weeks ago, I was really not interested in looking at Kenyon Sadiq, the tight end from Oregon. But now if T.J. Hawkinson is out, then that becomes an idea worth looking at. And the recent history of tight ends has been pretty good of their development paths in the NFL. And now we're a little bit farther down where we've been, you'd be in like trade down territory. But we've missed on the corners. This is kind of a big deal. We've missed on the corners. And we're basically looking at either Caden McDonald, the defensive tackle.

from Ohio State or Kenyon Sadiq, the tight end from Oregon. I'm just going to go with the tight end here and then see what comes up. But that's, they've won enough games to get themselves kind of out of the mix of some of those top corners. All right. Second round, L.T. Overton, edge rusher on the board here. Got a guard corner, a corner, Chris Johnson from San Diego State's interesting to me. I like the idea of Jonah Coleman, the running back from Washington.

running back in the second round has my attention, but I keep going back to interior offensive line, Jake Slaughter, Conor Lou, the two centers that are there. I just don't know what other option you have. And when you look at these centers, there's a couple of guys, and then there's a huge drop off from those guys in terms of the next center prospect is not until pick 155. Conor Lou is pick 60. And then it's not until 155. And I think Louie, has an ACL injury, maybe, Jake Slaughter. Let's see what we got at running backs. Maybe we can get one of those guys to drop and look at running back. Judarian Price, Jonah Coleman, and then there's kind of a big drop off there as well. So we could take Jonah Coleman or we could take

the center. Why don't we, or we can take the corner, Chris Johnson from San Diego State. Why don't we take the corner here? Wow, look at these numbers. A 16 passer rating throwing into his coverage. Why do we take the development corner, Chris Johnson, and see if we could, we got away with it. The center, Jake Slaughter, dropped into the early part of the third round. So we're just going to not think about it and take the center. And then we have one more pick here. We could take John Matier as a development quarterback if we want to. I'm not into that. Emmett Johnson, the running back from Nebraska. That's, that's an interesting idea. idea. Why don't we look at running back here? Seth McGowan, I don't know much about a lot of these

people. Why don't we just take the running back here and call it a draft? Okay. So here's what we ended up with. Kenyon Sadiq, the tight end from Oregon with the first round pick, second round pick, corner Chris Johnson from San Diego State. That one got me an A. Jake Slaughter, the center from Florida, and the running back from Nebraska, Emmett Johnson. And there, my friends, you have yourself a mock draft to close out the night. How about that? I've really enjoyed the chat. Sorry to folks, if I didn't get to your comments. I know a lot of you, we're still leaving comments and I try to work my way through them as fast as I possibly can. But I'm going to have a big show tomorrow night. Be plus on that. Thank you. And if you guys didn't answer the

Fanduil question of the day, feel free to do that. Get the, O'Connor Lou, the center would be a good pick. Yeah, Cut Hawkinson, probably going to happen. But tomorrow night, expected to have Kevin Sefer on the show. And we're going to go deep into what happened with J.J. McCarthy. He did awesome, awesome reporting on that. And I can't wait to get into it with Mr. Sefer, but I got to save the voice. I can already feel it after, you know, a couple hours here of live streaming.

So thank you guys so much for a really fun, really just good, in-depth, We went into a lot of stuff tonight. There's going to be a lot of these in the off season. My plan is to keep live streaming on the same days all off season. We'll have fun. Jonathan Harrison was trying to teach me how to connect my old school video games to my streaming stuff so I could play video games and answer questions. And maybe we'll maybe we'll be able to figure that out at some point in the off season.

So thanks for all the questions. But the plan is going to be Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, how I've done it. and then any emergency podcasts will be live. So plenty of opportunities. If I didn't get to your question tonight, I'm sorry, but I will in the future. And we'll see what goes on. And when there is a press conference, again,

don't worry too much about, you know, internet speculation stuff. Like when there is a press conference and news, we'll have a reaction. So we'll go from there. Thanks, everybody. And we'll catch you later. Football.