Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Dallas brings back Mike McCarthy and rebuilding the Vikings defensive line

Episode Date: January 18, 2024

Matthew Coller talks with Vikings fans about the return of Mike McCarthy to the Dallas Cowboys, then goes through the entire defensive line discussing each player's outlook and the plan to fill the gaps Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

🎵 Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here as always, solo tonight. So I'm expecting lots of audience participation, questions, comments, and we can all have a good time. But we have to start out with the biggest breaking news in the NFL, and then we'll get to some Vikings talk as always, which is Mike McCarthy is staying in the NFC. He will return, according to Adam Schefter, to the Dallas Cowboys and coach again next year. And I want to start off with a crazy stat. Here's a connection with the Vikings and Mike McCarthy. So there's no question who the greatest Vikings coach of all time is. A guy by the name of Bud Grant took the team to four Super Bowls,

complete legend, one of the best you'll ever find. His career win percentage as the head coach of the Minnesota Vikings was 62.1% over his career, which is in the top 20 of all time. No surprise, right? Bud Grant, the GOAT. Mike McCarthy's win percentage as a coach for his career is 62%. So 0.1% behind the great Bud Grant. And if you look at McCarthy's career, this is why he is such an enigma in the NFL. Over his career, he matches up with the best of the best in terms of regular seasons.

It actually is kind of mind-blowing. Bill Walsh is behind Mike McCarthy. Joe Gibbs is just ahead of Mike McCarthy, the guy who I think a lot of the world thinks doesn't really know what he's doing, or at least he doesn't in the playoffs because we saw again, showing up in the post season and pretty quickly being booted out by about the end of the first quarter, actually by the green Bay Packers and all Packers fans will tell you that McCarthy does not know how to coach in the playoffs. There are many, many examples of blown opportunities during the Aaron Rodgers era and then goes to Dallas and does the exact same thing.

One playoff win since he's been there. People will go back to the game against Seattle, which Green Bay let slip out of their fingers when they might've had a chance to go to the Superbowl. And that is Mike McCarthy's legacy. Even though he has a Superbowl, the number one thing that is remembered about him is blowing those playoff games, which is actually kind of funny because he has the same exact win percentage as Sean Payton. And I don't know if Sean Payton has the same reputation. I think Sean Payton is thought of by the fan base in New Orleans as being a GOAT coach who took Drew Brees to all

those playoffs and to win the Super Bowl. But they have the same win percentage and a bunch of meltdowns in the playoffs. Just the other day, I was watching 2011 against the San Francisco 49ers, where they had a lead late, gave it up in the end. Of course, there's the Minneapolis Miracle. Two years later, Kyle Rudolph in the end zone. They had a Jared Cook fumble that cost them. They had the pass interference that cost them. And yet, it feels like Sean Payton is put up in this incredible echelon of all-time

great coaches. And Mike McCarthy is thought of as kind of a doof. And I think that they're kind of the same guy more than anything else. And who, of course, have benefited from great quarterbacks. But what an interesting decision though, at Jerry Jones's feet, because when you look at the Cowboys over the last three years, elite, elite offenses under Mike McCarthy. And normally, historically, that's what's going to get you deep into the postseason is having one of the best offenses in the league. And they have been right there at the top. I believe it was number one, number five, when Dak Prescott missed a number of games to start the season.

And then number one again. That's how good they've been. They did not lose at home. And then all of a sudden, in the playoffs, completely fall apart at home. It is a very hard riddle to solve why Mike McCarthy cannot win in the playoffs and so often has these ridiculous gaffes like at the end of both San Francisco games that might be part of it but this year it's a lot

harder to say hey they just ran into a San Francisco defense because in this case it was a total total no-show against the Green Bay Packers so the world of the NFC and the NFC East is certainly celebrating McCarthy coming back, but I don't know because we've done this before with certain coaches and it doesn't always play out that forever and always they blow it in the playoffs. And I'll give you an example. And I know he's got Patrick Mahomes, but this was Andy Reid's legacy and the Philadelphia Eagles with Donovan McNabb are kind of similar to what Dallas has been with Mike McCarthy a team that was good but just not quite good enough when it came to the playoffs although Andy Reid at least got them to championship

weekend before they fell apart struggled with the clock management and maybe just the pressure of everything that is Dallas Cowboys also has made a difference with that team there's also the fact that I mean Dak Prescott threw a couple really bad interceptions to start that game and Dan Quinn did a very poor job defensively of stopping anything that Jordan Love or Aaron Jones were doing. So are we supposed to think that it was entirely Mike McCarthy's fault? I don't know, but I certainly know the reaction is going to be total shock that he was not fired after this season. And I don't know what the answer is. It's such a strange legacy. McCarthy, I've always, when we talked about coaching tears, I've always put McCarthy in his own tier because I don't know what to do with him.

Someone who's had that much regular season success. And yet at the end of every year, it seems like there's conversation about firing Mike McCarthy. Now, where does this make a difference to the Vikings? They don't, I don't believe they play Dallas next season, but there's going to be a race for the playoffs next season

if the Vikings are in it and chasing it. And Dallas becomes relevant in that way. But also, to me, it's just an intriguing football thing. Everyone has the same opinion on Mike McCarthy, that the guy can't do the job and is a buffoon. And yet I'm watching their offense in the regular season go crazy and thinking, I don't know. I don't know what I'm supposed to believe about this. I guess a victim of his own success in the regular season that the bar is set so high that when they melt down in the playoffs, it becomes a major deal to that fan base and

that owner and the media and everything else that pays so much attention. Cleveland melted down, but they had a backup quarterback in and everyone went, oh, well, good season coach of the year, Kevin Stefanski. So everything is about expectations, I guess. And when you set the expectations high and don't reach them, there is pressure. There's also a Kirk Cousins point in that if they bring him back, the bar is going to be very, very high. So I guess I wouldn't be surprised if next year is the year Dallas surprises us all. Sometimes it's the year after, right? Earlier this year, coaches are so hard to figure out, right? Earlier this year, mid season, Sean McDermott couldn't be any more under the gun.

I mean, he's got the strange story that came out about something he said in 2019. They lost a bunch of late games. He's mismanaging the clock. And then all of a sudden, his defense comes together. Josh Allen plays well. They win a bunch of games. And here they are playing Kansas City for all the Tostitos. I mean, this is like, that's just how it happens sometimes with coaches. Everyone decides Andy

Reed isn't a good enough coach. Can't win in the playoffs. And Patrick Mahomes walks in and then all of a sudden you can. So I don't know, Tony Dungy, same deal. When he was fired in Tampa Bay, the whole narrative with Tony Dungy is he can't do it, can't get it done. And then he did. And so here we are. So anyway, it's a fun thing to think about of how we evaluate coaches and whether there really is something there. Does Mike McCarthy get game planned by teams and opponents when it comes to a big playoff game? Does he do something different? Is there something missing? Or is Dak Prescott a regular season stat stuffer? Or was it just a couple of mistakes

and the razor thin nature of the NFL? I really don't have a great answer for it because McCarthy is such a strange case. So there you have it. He will be back in the NFC this year. Now, something I wrote about that I want to talk about and your questions very much welcome happy to answer anything you got but i wanted to talk specifically about the defensive line and the planet defensive line because i wrote an article about it and if you don't subscribe to the newsletter go to purpleinsider.com

and you can check it out there. Got all the articles there. Just click on it and you can go subscribe. So I've been writing this series, Future of the Vikings. And I'm looking at every position, every player, and breaking down what their stats look like this year. Kind of contextualizing those stats. And then what's going to happen with them going forward. So are they under contract? Will they have a chance to make the team in camp? Are they a free agent? Like those types of things. And then looking at some of the options in free agency.

So we should go through those things with the defensive line. But I think we know the biggest story and the biggest question where we have to begin is Daniil Hunter and whether the Vikings will bring him back. And the way I've been talking about it on the show has mostly been sort of an if then, like if they bring back Cousins, then Daniil Hunter is gone. If they do not bring back Cousins, Hunter returns. It might not be like that. It might not be that simple. There might be a world where they can bring both back. There might be a world where even if they have the money to sign Daniel Hunter, they don't want to at the type of price that he's going to ask for. And in my research for the article, and I'll pull this up,

I was looking at the comparables in a per year type of basis. Now there's a couple of guys that are younger than Daniil Hunter, but as far as production goes, he's a little more productive than them, but sort of same ballpark as very high level edge rushers, but not maybe Miles Garrett. And that would be the recent contracts of Montez Sweat and Rashawn Gary, who were both around $24 million per year and $41 million and $34 million guaranteed. So $24 per year and somewhere between $35 and $40 guaranteed seems like a pretty good deal for Daniil Hunter. But if Daniil Hunter sees himself in the next level of pass rusher, and I mean the Bosa, other Bosa, Garrett,

then you're talking about somewhere between $28 and $34 million and as much as $80 million guaranteed, which would just be really, really difficult to give out to Daniil Hunter. But if you're talking about someone who you could reasonably project for the next couple seasons, and remember, he's played every game over the last two years since we wondered, hey, what's the deal with his injury and so forth? He's played all 17 games in back-to-back seasons, could you reasonably project somewhere between 10 and 15 sacks and a top 10 to 15 QB pressure performance from Daniil Hunter for the next two years

and try to structure a contract so you can get out of it after two years if you have to at somewhere around $24 million? If that's the case, then bringing back to Neil Hunter not only makes sense, but is possible even if they bring back Cousins, depending on the way that they structure it and probably have to push some of the money out. If he wants more than that, it's impossible.

It just, you get to the point where you can't afford it. And if he wants to be locked in for longer than that, that's a really hard projection of somebody who is finally getting older for the longest time. He, it was like the fun factoids of, did you know, Daniel Hunter is younger than their draft class and he's been in the league

for three years. Well, now Daniel Hunter has reached the age where a lot of edge rushers do start to fall off, but not all of them. It's not like, it's not like running backs where we can actually sort of put this number down. Hey, at age 27 to 28, they're done. Well, that's not really with edge rushers. Some are done at 31. Some are done at 35 and Hunter, I think is physically in pretty good shape. So I don't, I don't know how you

project where he's going to go in the future, but probably not 16 and a half sacks every year, but 10 to 15 for that type of money is very plausible. If they don't do it though, looking at the free agent group, it's a little bit dicey to find anybody of his caliber. I think what they would have to do is probably look for multiple players if they weren't going to be able to sign Brian Burns, who's going to get the most money out of this edge class, I think. They would probably have to look for

guys like A.J. Epinesa from Buffalo, who is a part-time player that had six and a half sacks and ranked 25th by PFF. Bryce Huff from the New York Jets, 10 sacks, but wasth by PFF. Bryce Huff from the New York Jets, 10 sacks, but was not a full-time player. Jonathan Greenard from Houston probably gets re-signed there, I would guess, but he had 12 and a half sacks this year. There are guys who can help you, but there are not Daniil Hunter, every single down type of players, it would probably have to be a committee type of approach in free agency if they were to lose Daniil Hunter. JP says, bringing back Hunter and Wanam back.

Josh, I forget how to pronounce his name from the Patriots. Is it Ush? U-C-H-E. Someone help me with that. In a prove it deal while drafting a defensive tackle in the second round and another pass rusher specialist in the late rounds. Yeah. Anything past the fourth round is sort of like not worth talking about, Hey, grab this guy or that guy at this moment, because, well, I mean, just in general, as far as fixing goes, it's really only worth talking about as in take shots every year at these types of guys and hope and pray. That's what everything past the fourth round is. So you're just throwing darts at people you like, but to your bigger point, the DJ Wanham is an interesting one. And I like that you had a typo and spelled them Woonham, which I would have made his name fun, more fun to say, but a DJ Wanham is a good player.

But the question would be, if you're going to bring back Hunter, can you find someone a little bit better as far as a consistent pass rusher? I agree with your point about drafting a defensive tackle in the second round. I liked that idea. And when I was looking at the research for this article, looking at the projected draft class, one of the things that I did notice is that, and this is right now, and it's a ways away, is that the defensive tackle group really only has one guy, the defensive tackle on Newton from Illinois, as the first round defensive tackle. Everybody else is kind of a second round. It was like four or five guys projected to be in the second round.

So that leaves that door open for the Vikings. If they're going to pick a quarterback or whatever to get a defensive tackle, because that position to me is just as dire on the outside, but want them. I'd like them back as a rotational player. And he was really good actually this year against the run. But if we're talking about want them as a starter and then just throwing someone else at it, I don't know if that's enough to be a difference maker.

Now, maybe if we're talking about a rebuild type of approach, and that's where it all ties back into the quarterback is if it's a rebuild type approach then bringing back want him is fine taking the you know shots at some other guys who are young ish is fine but if you're talking about all in i think you probably have to do a little better as a starter than dj want him and that's with all respect to how much he played and how well he played this year it's just is he going to want starter type money because with all respect to how much he played and how well he played this year it's just is he going to want starter type money because he could point to i got eight sacks i played 800 snaps give me you know 10 million 12 million dollars that's not really going to work i think

if the vikings want to bring him back uh dennis says draft the defensive tackle or DE in the first round draft Bo Nix at number 42. So there's a guy that you guys have to follow, uh, or it's a website to, uh, grinding the mocks, which is done by Benjamin Robinson. Super interesting site that tracks where these players go as far as their draft stock up and down through the mock drafts. It gathers a bunch of different mock drafts, and then it shows on Benjamin's charts kind of who's rising, who's falling. So Michael Penix plays against Texas, and whoop, there it goes. All the mocks just shot Michael Penix way up, which is probably a bit of an overreaction. And Bo Nix didn't really have that moment

because he played Liberty and blew him out. And Bo Nix is sort of settled toward the back of the first into the second round. And I don't know how the league is going to feel about that. The Senior Bowl is coming up and Nix and how he performs there is going to make a big difference. There's been lots of stories in the past

of certain guys at the Senior Bowl really convincing teams that they're the guy. So I'm not sure where Nick's is going to be. Is he going to be at 42? Could you also plan to try to trade up from 42? But if, if you have Kirk and draft a second round quarterback, is that different from drafting a first round quarterback? Maybe it is. Maybe it is. But I look at second round picks as those need to be starters. So if you're bringing back cousins, then you probably have to spend both of those on positions that can be helped

right away to win in the next two years. Like maybe both of those are defensive linemen, considering how breadth of talent they are on the defensive line. Even if they were to, that's the crazy thing about this D line. Even if they were to sign Brian birds and bring back DJ want them, they still need like three more players, four more players on the D line to match up with some of the better teams.

And, uh, at defensive tackle, by the way, there's a lot of good names, but I think there's going to be a lot of money going to these guys. Christian Wilkins is my favorite player in free agency. This guy is a beast. I think he would fit super well with what Brian Flores does. Obviously he was with him before, uh, Chris Jones is a superstar. I don't know what his deal is going to be. If he's going to try to come back to Kansas city for less, go somewhere else. But he's probably going to championship chase. Wouldn't expect that to be here. Leonard Williams, DJ Reader, Justin Matabuki, and Sheldon Rankins are all really good players. So if you want to spend some money on the DT, which I think they should, then they can with a number of those guys. But I think all of them are going to get significant paychecks.

But it is fascinating how it all ties into what they do at quarterback because you could draft first and second round D-line and it still wouldn't be enough. Or if you're drafting a quarterback, then your options are very limited to only the second round. And something that I have noticed and this does not apply all the time because Max Crosby's a fourth rounder so is Everson Griffin but I've noticed that a lot of these freaks and I know this is not a hot take but a lot of them are drafted

really high the Miles Garrett's the Micah Parsons usually in the top 15 because of the athletic requirements to be a great rusher. In my mind, if you're going to do it, you should do it at 11. If Kirk is back and at 42, look for something else, look for a corner,

look for a defensive tackle that you can develop. I think that those edge rushers that are tweeners that are drafted 24th or overall or something, they have a little more trouble because usually it's because they're not the freak athletes. That is just kind of a theory. So don't entirely quote me on that. That's just my, my kind of general feeling about that position. Uh, Todd says, uh, Oh, let me get to the snark first. Uh, Timothy says, Jerry Jones making the entire NFC. Do a little fist pump.

Don't test the gods, Timothy, because if the Vikings go to Dallas next year, it would be just their luck. Maybe a receiver would push off or something for Dallas, and they would win a playoff game. But I do think that the rest of the NFC is probably like, okay, that's not really a problem except in the regular season. Todd says, what if Chicago doesn't draft a quarterback and Caleb Williams slips down the draft? What do you think that would take to move up and get him?

There would be a domino effect of that happening. I have to, I have to think that if Chicago is not drafting a quarterback, that they are trading back. They would make that known to the teams right in front of them and say, who wants Caleb? Give us some more draft capital. I think that Williams or May is going one and the other one is going to that's as of right now, things can change. It still feels like Williams is the lock for number one. But if you knew that say the patriots and it seems like things are going to be done a little different there after watching gerard mayo's press conference today if you're the patriots and you are dead set on caleb williams

and you've heard they're sticking with justin fields and you're trying to trade up right you want your guy to build around i i don't know if that very, very top of the draft will really impact the Vikings. It starts at least for me at the third pick. And if the Patriots stay there, are they drafting a quarterback or the Patriots want a veteran, but there's not like a huge amount of veterans that can win for you right away. So is it going to go one, two, three? Are they going to try to move up? But if it's Megan Williams, then do you have to try to trade up to three? That's a long way to go. That's probably three first round draft picks. Now, if you get to five and

Jaden Daniels is still there, for example, then that becomes much more interesting. You're only talking about moving up a couple of spots that might just be like this first and next year's first and maybe a second down the road thrown in. And then there's the other wrinkle. There are lots of teams right there, the Giants, the Falcons. There's a lot of shuffling. So earlier when we were talking about Bo Nix, that's the thing to kind of keep an eye on is like, how much would it cost? Probably a ton to move up because no matter how it plays out at the very top, we can still guarantee that if Chicago is not taking Williams, they're sliding back and picking up more draft capital. Though, if I were to bet right now, I would say Williams just goes to Chicago and, and off we go. And there

was a very subtle tweet the other day by Ian Rappaport that I noticed. He said that when he tweeted that Caleb Williams was coming out in the draft, he said something to the effect of, and he'll play for whoever drafts him. So like, wait, Chicago, do you want him? You can have him. He'll play for you. He's not going to ask for a stake of the team or whatever was out there that he supposedly was doing. But they might like Drake May better. Whoever doesn't go one is going to almost guaranteed, I think, based on the teams that are at the top of the draft. So the Vikings have themselves in a position where they can get a quarterback. But if they want a certain quarterback in the top three, there's a lot of teams to shuffle around with. Folks, Lucy is upping the nicotine pouch game

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with signing him to a one year prove it deal that can smooth out the dead cap money over a couple of years. It's not that bad, the dead cap. So I had this clarified the other day. Sometimes over the cap.com, which is the best, sometimes it can get me. When it comes to the dead cap, I can be confused the way that it's laid out. So my understanding is if Davenport leaves after this year, it's something in the range of $6 million, 6.3, 6.8. And if he doesn't, then yeah, it's spread out over a couple the Band-Aid off because, yeah, like when he was in there for the very brief time, he looked pretty good. And I think that if Marcus Davenport was fully healthy next to Daniil Hunter,

just based on what I saw in training camp, what I saw in a very brief flash, particularly against Carolina, I was like, wow, these two could be really great together because the athleticism is through the roof. But we're talking about an injury history now that could fill a book. And I think after this, there's pretty much no way the Vikings go back to that. Because if you re-sign him, even on a small deal, even if it's like two years, I don't know, 10 million or something, and he gets hurt again, that might be it for him. You might get no games out of him and you're relying on that player. So I think that that's one thing maybe for this team to think about going forward and should have been proof to them this year that you can't control injuries. You can manage injuries.

And there's a very, very, very important role for the training staff. Training staff's the most underrated thing, but you can't stop injuries. You can't stop a high ankle sprain or whatever. And you can't make people recover faster. And you can't just, there's no magic dust that you can sprinkle on Marcus Davenport and say, all right, your ankle's fine. So somebody that's got that significant of an injury history, I think you just want to stay away from, let somebody else take that shot and just take your medicine for that being a bad signing and go forward. I mean, look, the way that they set it up, had it worked out, it would have been great.

And just two years ago, he had, what, nine and a half sacks or something? But I think that Davenport's career is really in jeopardy here if he's not going to be able to stay healthy. And I always feel bad for players like that. I mean, I think Marcus Davenport really wanted to come here and sack a bunch of quarterbacks and prove everybody wrong. And it was some bad breaks and injuries, but they're also maybe with that player, you could have seen it coming. Uh, I still would say it's not that costly at one year, $6 million dead cap hit. It's not that bad. Um, Todd says the Packers are going to really find out what playoff football is like against the 49ers. It will be a complete domination.

Jordan Love's head will be spinning. Well, with San Francisco, they don't really do, and I'm nitpicking your language here, but they don't really do the head spinning. They do the pop your head straight off because they are so aggressive and so violent. But the one thing they're not is confusing. When the Vikings played them, think about how much success Kirk Cousins had. Why? Because if Kirk Cousins can diagnose pre-snap, he can rip you apart. We've seen that from all sorts of defenses over the years. And he was able to diagnose a lot of what they were doing in San Francisco and get the ball out, get it to his playmakers,

throw with anticipation. But you're right that this is a great test for Jordan Love and for that team and where they're at just in general. I mean, overall, like the Packers are looking like one of the best young teams in the league. So are they going to get humbled a little bit by a team that's for real and that outscored its opponents by 194 or something, or are they going to put on some kind of show and make this close or win this game and have everybody going? Now you're going to have to compete with this Packers team for a very, very long time. Uh, nano Joe says percentage chance. The Vikings run it back for the seventh bleeping time i can't imagine what you're talking about i don't know what you're talking about i know exactly what

you're talking about percentage chance hmm so i've been this is such a cop-out and i apologize for this nano joe i've been 50 50 kind of the time. I could really see it either way. I could see the ownership of this team saying, look, we've got to go in a different direction because we've been spinning our wheels and taking a shot at a guy for this price with this Achilles and this age. Historically, it's very hard to find any quarterbacks who aren't like all-time great players or number one draft picks like Carson Palmer, Matthew Stafford, anybody with physical limitations that goes past 35, 36 and plays at a high level.

Very hard to find if they aren't Big Ben or they aren't Drew Brees or Aaron Rodgers. So they could look at that. And I know who knows that. Kweisi Adafo-Mensah kind of hinted at it in the press conference. They could look at that and say, it's just time to move on. Let's draft someone. This is your guy's team. Let's see how it goes. But I could also see the part of them that says, man, we were so close this year in X number of games. And this is a coach's way of thinking coaches way of thinking.

And I think that they're a little deferential to coaches. And so the coach's thinking is we're this close, we're this close. And that is true that they were close in a lot of games and even almost one with Nick Mullins, which, you know, to me as a sign that says something different, but to them, they might be like, man, if we only had Kirk, it would have been right there. But I was looking this up today and I, this is when the Vikings are out of the playoffs. I have so much time to look up factoids for everybody for eight o'clock at night for this show. But here's what I found. I looked up from 2010 to last year, the point differential of the teams that went to the Super Bowl and 90% of the teams were over 110, like plus 110. So they outscored their opponents by 110 or more.

I believe it was 21 out of 26 teams that went to the Super Bowl. The Vikings have never done that since Kirk Cousins has been here. They came close to that in 2019 and didn't have a strong enough team to beat the 49ers and have never come close to that threshold again. And the highest team that went to the Super Bowl was at plus 200. And a lot of teams are plus 120 and up. And right now the 49ers are, I think, plus 194 and the Ravens were 206. Those are the Super Bowl contenders. They're not teams that live on the edge and barely outscore their opponents and finish the season with a plus 12 point differential. That was kind of Philadelphia this year, where I think their point differential at the end of the day was something like plus five.

And then they just instantly got knocked out of the playoffs. I mean, if you look at it that way, how could you make the case that you would actually be there or that you were actually as close as you think? So what does it say in the mirror? Like objects are closer than it's the opposite. Like objects are not as close as they appear. You are not as close to a contender just because you lost a tight game against Detroit or Cincinnati or whatever in the middle of the season, or you fumbled one away against Philly or the

Los Angeles chargers, which by the way, at the time, those seemed like pretty, pretty big deals and then, uh, like pretty good teams. And they kind of weren't, um, well, maybe not the chargers. They were, they were under fire a little bit, but the point is just is just if it's always about, hey, we were one thing away, we were one thing away, then more likely than not, you're a lot farther than you actually believe. You're still 100 points away. And where are you going to make up that 100 points for next year? You already had a pretty good defense. I mean, can you score 100 more points than you did? Probably not. But maybe there's also the likability factor, like how much do the Wilfs care that Kirk Cousins has become a very likable figure? I think they're not reading the room

quite correctly. If they think that, I think that fans are much more into something fresh. And this is not just me thinking this. Our buddy, Drew McGarry, who writes for Defector, wrote a column about this. He's a big Vikings fan, great writer. And he just wrote about just wanting something fresh, wanting something new and not doing the same thing over and over again. Scott says Hendon Hooker is older than Daniil Hunter. For once, somebody isn't, but technically speaking, but that's funny. I appreciate the callback there.

Scott also says, been a huge need since they last drafted a defensive tackle in round one, which was 11 drafts ago. Sheree Floyd, yeah. I mean, crazy when you think about how long ago it was since they drafted a defensive tackle. And when they had Linval Joseph, you just really didn't need to because you could put a situational player in next to him

and it would be just fine. But they don't have Linval Joseph. They have Harrison Phillips, who is much more of a 500 snap guy, not a 900 snap guy, much more of a defensive run stopper and is not a pass rusher at all. And I felt bad for Harrison Phillips. I saw one of those charts that looked at pass rush win rate, and he was all the way at the bottom.

But that's Harrison Phillips. That's not his job. So they need to find – Harrison Phillips is like a better Shamar Steffen. So if that's all you have on the defensive line, you're going to need a lot more than that. This is definitely the year to make something happen there justin says hunter kind of missed out slash got screwed on the lucrative second contract can't imagine he's going to miss his chance to get paid this time now you make a great point because the year that he was up for the extension he decided to

sign before the season as opposed to playing out the season. If I remember this correctly, that instead of playing through 2018 and then negotiating after that, where he would have been up against free agency, he signed beforehand, but he had only gotten, I think, seven sacks in 2017. And that was kind of a bad luck year for sacks for him because his other numbers were still very good. And he signed kind of a bad luck year for sacks for him because his other numbers were still very good. And he signed a deal that just wasn't great. And then had a chance to renegotiate that deal, sign a new deal. I think if I'm thinking about how this played out correctly and that was when he got hurt. And so then it ends up being a big cluster with him of,

well, okay, is he, is his career going to be threatened here with a neck injury? Neck is very scary for a pass rusher. Luckily for him, it's worked out and for them it's worked out, but you could see why the team with the neck injury would have been like, whoa. And it's been awkward for years now with Daniel Hunter. It does feel like if you're on his side, if you're his agent, you're probably saying it's time for somebody to step to the plate. And there are 31 teams. There are a lot of football teams. Somebody's got to have the cap space to give you top notch money. If I'm Hunter, I'm thinking that. And he also, now this is another one of those details that if I have wrong,

somebody let me know, but he also has dead cap money if they don't sign him before free agency and i just can't imagine him not hitting free agency so it would have to i mean i guess i can but it would have to happen at some point before that and that means the vikings would have to pay up if he was going to skip out on testing the open market uh david says matt they can open up about 32 million next year by not signing Daniil or Kirk. Add that to the 27 mil available minus the Jefferson deal, trade back in the first round, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah. And also if Harrison Smith retires, I was checking on that today. I believe it's around 11 million and all these numbers are a little dicey. So just keep that in mind.

But that's overthecap.com, if I'm reading it correctly, is I believe it's around 11 million in cap space that they would get if Harrison Smith retires. That helps. They can restructure Byron Murphy for a pretty significant amount. There's other restructures they can do. They could create a huge amount of cap space, yes, if they wanted to. And here's one important point about the Justin Jefferson deal is, well, it will be extremely

expensive and crazy amounts of money. It doesn't have to be crazy amounts of money on the cap right away. You can push that down the road a little bit so where it kicks in those $30 million cap hits a little bit later. And I think with AJ Brown, and I know he was a second round pick, so it might be a little bit different, but with AJ Brown, it wasn't until next year that his cap hits going way up. And that is how these teams structure them to get around that. So the guy signs this deal, it's X number per year. And that's how these teams structure them to get around that. So the guy

signs this deal, it's X number per year, and that's the number that sticks in our head. But then when you look at the cap, and this goes for TJ Hawkinson too, that usually it's not till the second or third year. The unfortunate part is that eventually that does get here. But just as far as this off season, if they don't sign Cousins, he'll still have that $28 million dead cap hit. But they could spend money. It's not like they are completely poor. I believe they're, even before the Harrison Smith potential,

and I'm not reporting anything, I don't know, but potential if he retires. There's something like eighth in cap space. I mean mean they've gotten the cap much more right now than they had in the past thanks to moving on from those guys last year and they had to take a little bit of a bath on some of them uh with dead cap and stuff but that was the right thing to do to not harm this year this offseason by struggling to keep those players. That's an important point. CJ says, Collar, I've been thinking more of Eric Eager's trade-down suggestion.

Defensive line, mid to late first, Knicks or Pennix, whoever drops, has me interested. So here's a scenario for you. Let's say Kevin O'Connell goes to the senior bowl and he works with or watches Bo Nix and Michael Penix. He sits down with both of them. He puts them on the whiteboard. He hits them with pool toys. He does all the crazy stuff. He gives them three S2 tests and he likes all of it from both of them. That's the trade down scenario right there. If you could be comfortable with both guys and then trade down and try to get something second round or third round or whatever it is,

depending on the trade down, if it's significant, then I imagine if a quarterback is in play for somebody else, then maybe it always depends on the situation. As we found out with the Lewis scene and that whole deal, it always depends on the situation. As we found out with the Lewis scene and that whole deal, it always depends on the situation what the draft capital is going to be offered. But let's just say that's on the table. That I would be very supportive of. If they felt equally about two different prospects and say, you know what? We don't really know.

We actually would take either one. And then you're in a scenario where they're both still available at number 11. You trade back. You get some more draft capital. You look to beef up the defense. That makes a lot of sense. Where it wouldn't is if they say, look, the only guy outside of those first two or three is JJ McCarthy.

Let's just say that's the only guy who's a first round pick. And this scenario could be real. Then you just got to do it. You just got to make that draft pick or you got to trade up ahead of somebody else and reach on the draft pick to make sure that you get your guy. And you'll never remember that you did it. I guess if you get your guy, he turns out to be great. So, uh, Justin says, what is it with the Vikings defense, uh, struggling when they don't have a legit nose guard? I love when it's called nose guard. Thanks for doing that. Uh, it's almost like, uh, that's a key position on the defensive line. Trust me, man. There was nothing I used to enjoy more than watching Linval Joseph back on the game

tape because every week all of us do this, all reporters, but we go back and look at the all 22 tape and watch the game back. See, look for things to ask about whatever else, or maybe explanation, some crazy play happens. We're trying to figure it out. And I would just go back and sometimes get stuck on Linval Joseph, but just watch play after play. This dude would manhandle three people if it was necessary. He would run people down. If they were running a screen, he would run down the line and tackle that person. Linval, it's no mistake that Linval Joseph was on that great Giants defense and then was on a Vikings defense that was really good the entire time he was here. And the minute he left, it was different. I'm not saying

he was the only player who did that, but that nose tackle position is really huge. And it always has been, I was watching a 2000, gosh, what year was it? 2002 the other day, divisional round. And Casey Hampton is on those Pittsburgh Steelers teams. And that dude was a fire hydrant. Nobody could run. They're playing the Titans. The Titans can't run against them. Always and forever. Look what Kenny Clark does.

Look at what, I mean, Akeem Hicks was kind of a three-tech, but was, you know, seven feet tall and 500 pounds. I'm always, always into that position. Chris Jones has been that for Kansas City. He's not a nose tackle, but that interior rush. If you have an impact player right over the center or guard, Jones has been that for Kansas City. He's not a nose tackle, but that interior rush. If you have an impact player right over the center or guard, how many centers or guards can handle somebody like that,

either with the size, strength of Limbaugh Joseph or the quickness to get after the passer? If you get a chance to get one, then get one. And I have no idea why Mike Zimmer didn't make more effort, although they did get Michael Pierce and it didn't work out. So maybe that's maybe that was the effort to try and replace him. I shouldn't say why they didn't try, but it didn't work out. So high times, KG says it's pretty simple.

Just draft a quarterback, cornerback, defensive tackle, center and edge with your first two picks. Your sarcasm is picked up on high times KG, but that's the reality of this roster, isn't it? And when I'm looking at, you know, on the defensive line, you know, we were talking so much about just, you know, one guy in Daniil Hunter, but I mean, let's go, let's go down the list here. Let's just go down the list one by one. Not really sure if DJ Wanham is coming back and I think he's a nice player, but is he really an impact player? Not, not really. Patrick Jones. I mean, just the guy who really can't play the number of snaps that he played

this year. Marcus Davenport obviously can't come back. Andre Carter played 68 snaps and needs a lot of time in the gym. If he's ever going to be something he might, he might, but that's not someone you can rely on. And then the defensive tackle Harrison Phillips, good player, Jonathan Bullard, a guy Dean Lowry. That didn't work out. Kairos Tonga. That was one I was kind of excited about because he's huge.

Like those players were talking about, but didn't seem to really fit with Brian Flores. Then Sheldon Day kind of liked some of what I saw from Jaqueline Roy, but he got hurt. And then TJ Smith, like that's the team. How the heck were they good at defense for most of the year? I honestly have no idea. Brian Flores is real good at his job.

I can definitely say that. Man, how were they even good at defense with that? Tim says, why pay 20 to 25 a year for a 30 year old edge when the team is two to three years away from competing? Yeah, I feel that. Yep. Yep. I feel that. I guess my thing would be. So I don't think that they have to be a million miles away from competing but i mean this is with respect to what you're saying because i probably agree with you more than i don't i just have watched hunter be good for so long it's hard to say yeah who needs him well most every team would need him but i think the plan if it was the plan, I think they had originally,

and I don't know if it's going to go to the Kirk route or not, but let's just say the plan that it sounded like when Kweisi Adafo-Mensah got here would have been to have a tough year, then draft a quarterback this year. And then you go through next year, developing that quarterback well competing as we've seen a number of quarterbacks do. And then you go into 2025 thinking this could be for real. That's how fast it can happen. I mean, we see this all the time every year for worst to first teams rising and falling just last year. The NFC North is an atrocious division. And this year it's really good and it's only getting better. And so I would look at it much more with some of the pieces as kind of a bet on 2025, but helps you be competitive in 2024.

Because if you draft a quarterback, you don't want to be losing all the time. You still want to be able to win. You know, you still want to be able to have Jefferson and Addison and the offense giving them a chance if they're good. So that, that, that would be my reasoning for bringing him back. Folks, if you've been listening to the show, then you know how much fun we have been having with prize picks this year. Just go to prizepicks.com slash purple. Use the code purple for a first deposit match up to $100. And let me tell you how it works. If you haven't heard us talk about it enough yet,

or you haven't tried it yet, very simple. There are yardage totals on prize picks. You either pick more or less and boom. Each week has been a rollerco ride of fun and the best part is that when i have a bad week i didn't lose much it doesn't cost much to play you can turn 10 bucks into 250 very easily and if things go sideways for you you're not out a whole heck of a lot of money but normally i do much better than this so that is prizepix.com slash purple, just more or less on yardage totals.

And you are in prizepix.com slash purple, the code purple for a first deposit match up to $100. If it's on a short enough deal, this from Jay Giza, like the rapper, maybe Matt, realistically, how many years would it take the Vikings to compete with Detroit and now Green Bay for the North? Yeah, that would be my answer is if it goes right. And because you get rid of that $28 million, if it goes right in the draft, moving on from cousins my answer would be you can certainly be in the mix for a wild card spot next year but 2025 would be the year that's when you want to

spend that's when you're hoping that some of your draft picks have been developed and come to fruition i mean remember this year's draft class uh it just started. So Makai Blackman, what's he going to be? Is anybody from 22 going to suddenly show up the same way that Josh Metellus did this year? Josh Metellus was a special teamer, and then all of a sudden he was good. It happens. So are you going to be able to develop a couple of the draft picks by then and then have your cap set up to where you're the team at the top of over the cap because you have the rookie quarterback contract and spend like crazy. And that's right when Detroit should be

getting a little bit more difficult with their salary cap because they've drafted all these successful players, but life comes at you fast with the cap where Amin Ross St. Brown and Penny Sewell are going to need deals. And those are not going to be small deals. Those are going to be huge deals, 25, $30 million a year for those two players. So they're going to start getting a little more expensive. You know, after this, that Jared Goff is signing an extension for sure. That's going to put him right up in that 45 to $50 million a year range. That's, that's all happening. And that means it's just going to be harder for Detroit. And that's what I mean. Rising and falling, rising and falling. Unless you have

Mahomes, then you don't. Then you just stay great. Then you're in divisional weekend, casually, with people going, I don't know, maybe they don't have it this year. Crazy. Tony says part of me hates the Bo Nix, but the other thinks that he would be a good fit. What are you thinking? Yeah, so that's it. Bo Nix is a really interesting one, and I want to go back and watch more. I haven't done that yet. I try to pace myself with the draft a little bit, but maybe this year is not the time. So with Bo Nix though, so I watched probably four or five games this year. And there are two things that I really like about number one is the ball comes out fast. He has a quick release. He doesn't screw around

back there. He gets the ball. He reads where he's supposed to go with it, and it's out. And yeah, they had some screens and open receivers and stuff, but even when he was pressured, he got the ball out. He barely took sacks. He was the highest graded PFF quarterback under pressure, and he's a really good athlete. He is not an athlete that I think is going to run for a thousand yards but he is the type that if you ran a qb sneak from the shotgun on third and one or something that he could plow forward and get you a first down if he's got pressure coming off the edge and he has to escape he can run away and scramble if there's nothing open on a third and ten and they're playing man coverage he could take off and maybe run somebody over because he's a big dude there's a lot that i do like about him and his stats were absurd uh but i don't know what

they think of him that's kind of the thing like what's the nfl gonna think of him are they gonna think he's more of a second round talent because he's older or was this kind of the player he was always supposed to be there was that same debate with with Joe Burrow and obviously it's worked out pretty well. So I, I lean toward liking Bo Nix quite a bit, but I don't know. I don't know if they will, or they'll look at him like, is he a good fit? But I think a guy who can push the ball down the field with his arm strength gets the ball out quick and doesn't get sacked a lot. I mean, that sounds like a quarterback that Kevin O'Connell would like. And I think Ken is right here when he says Bo Nix has the measurables. I mean, he does. I mean, he's got a big arm and he's a big dude. And, you know, sometimes those things are trends that, that don't go the right

way. But I mean, a lot of the quarterbacks who are successful, they usually are big dudes with big arms who are good athletes. I mean, it's football. So yeah, I like him. I think I like some things about him, the mobility, especially and the health more than Penix. I do like Penix's gutsiness. And when he lets that thing rip, it's going fast. So, you know, each one of these quarterbacks that are projected to not be top three to five, there's always going to be something about them that you go, oh, but what if, you know, this doesn't go right? Or what if that doesn't work out or whatever?

What if because he's 24, there's no ceiling? Or what if because he's got ACL injuries that crops up throughout his career? And sometimes you just never know. You just never know. Thurman Thomas, one of my favorite players of all time. I believe he played his career without an ACL. Like the, who was that? DeJuan Bonner?

The guy, the Pitt guy who played for the Spurs had no ACL? Weird stuff. TPP Skull says, what about taking the best edge slash defensive lineman at 11 trading back into the first from 42? The cost is considerably less to get into the teens than trying to get into the top three. Now that is an interesting idea. And now I'd have to go back in my brain, but is that kind of like what the Vikings did for Teddy? Someone tell me if I'm wrong, but I didn't have to trade up to 32 to take Teddy. Trading back up in the teens is a long way to go and probably takes another first rounder from next year.

But it's all about scenarios, and they so desperately need a difference maker on the D-line. But their intel is going to matter here. Do they think that Bo Nix will be available in the back end of the first where they could trade up? Here's the other thing that matters too. If you've already moved on from Kirk, who's your other guy? Cause we know they're going to sign somebody. Is it Jacoby Brissett? Is it Andy Dalton? Have they paid Baker Mayfield for a big contract for a year because Tampa wouldn't? Tampa probably will after he wins a playoff game. But the free agent list, is it Gardner Minshew or are they really desperate? Do they've got nothing? Because if they got nothing for another quarterback, then you better

just draft Bo Nix at number 11. But if you have somebody else that could get you through, if you get screwed over and you're surprised that somebody else took them instead, you don't completely fail to have a quarterback. So all these scenarios have to go through their head. If they decide to, uh, go to the draft to find a quarterback. David says, I say you get those two first rounders and then draft Knicks by keeping that second round pick or reacquiring one for Knicks. He's the guy I'm identifying. Yeah, I mean, I think that you can play it that way.

You can play it that way. But there is a real wide range of ways that they can go about this. And if you, David, were trying to tell me they should trade down or get, or get a draft pick at 11, that's on the D line, or there's also some great corners too. I'll take that great defensive player at 11 and then trade back in for Knicks. I'd be okay all right let's do that and then if you said you know actually i changed my mind they should trade next year's first up to number five and get jayden daniels i'd be like okay i like it i mean that's the thing about a draft class that has

legit prospects is you can make a case to me that Bo Nix placed into this situation could fit really well and not cost you the top pick. And you could have maybe just as much of a chance as those guys in the top three of working out. You could also convince me that the top three are special. And if you could get your paws on any one of them, that you should do that.

And that's the interesting part of it. Now, if I was forced to decide, I think I would probably prefer the more talented guy at the top, but if that's not an option, then they have to decide, do they think that any of the other teams are taking their quarterback or how many of these guys are they comfortable with? Are they comfortable with McCarthy, Pennix, and Nix? Or do they think McCarthy stinks and they think Nix is great, but only him? You know what I mean? This stuff is going to become a little bit clearer as we go, but also we're not ever really sure as we've seen before. John says, we will see if the Wilfs are serious about winning a Super Bowl if they let Kirk go and draft a quarterback, it's really hard for me to disagree with that. I mean, just based on everything I got, I don't like the idea of accusing them of

not wanting to win, but I think I would say misguided in how to win would be what I would, how I would phrase that. Uh, I think that they take a lot of shots about the winning stuff, but I mean, when you think about what they did after 17 to try to win again, was it misguided? Maybe. But it was an all in type of thing. They got not only got Kirk, they also brought everybody else back again, even to their detriment by signing Anthony Barr to a pretty preposterous contract. But again, it had like where the heart was, was going all in to keep their talent to try to win. And that did not work out.

So sometimes when I see that, when I think like, oh, well, do they really care? Do they really want to win? I mean, I think that we've seen that recently of them doing something huge to try to win and it didn't work and then we also saw an opportunity where they had to move on and take a bigger swing at a quarterback in the draft and decided not to and ran it all back and that was the big mistake in 2020 and maybe the big mistake in 22 depending on how you look at it that depends on your perspective like depends on how

much you enjoyed the 13 win season or how much you said i knew it when they lost to the giants so anyway i don't know i i think more it will be are they misguided are they making a bet that is not a very high chance to hit which is what all all of this is. It's all one of those memes with the numbers in front of the person's face. It's what percentage chance do you have to win if you bring back cousins and then try to build around that by doing crazy stuff with the salary cap and hoping to hit on some first round picks versus what chance do you have to win if you draft Bo Nix and build around him? And look, the odds of winning a Super Bowl are always low because there's so many teams and they're heavily weighted toward a couple of really

good teams and a really good quarterbacks. But I think that the past history would say that teams go to the Super Bowl a lot or to championship weekend a lot when they have cheaper quarterbacks who are playing well. And if Bo Nix is Carson Wentz, well, what Carson Wentz early on was good enough with that team to get to home field advantage and hand the reins off to Nick Foles and they go to the Superbowl and so forth. So, you know, I, I just think it would be misguided, but I don't think it's with the intent not to win or just to be like mediocre. Uh, I don't think that's the intent, but I think that is what you would be locking yourself into. Um, yeah, I've seen, I've seen this in certain places. Maybe Kevin O'Connell should give up play calling and

let Keenan McCardle call the plays. I don't think that's ever going to happen and I'm okay with it. I, I didn't walk out of this year thinking, well, what a disaster head coach the Vikings have. I walked out of this year with, I think there's some things to learn from. And one of those is to get the dang play call in faster because we can't have the quarterback take and delay a game that happened too many times. And that's, you know, I'm getting the call in because, you know, the quarterback is ready for it, but you got to get it in, get out of the huddle, get everything set up. And another thing is motion motion in the offense.

Seth Walder of ESPN tweeted out. They were like 15th in pre-snap motion. Let's bump that up. Like there's things right. The running game, my gosh, there's things. But at the end of the day, I would like Kevin O'Connell to be tied in to his quarterback. And for those two in the future to be in lockstep because this year with cousins, I, I think the operation was very good. Uh, there,

there was that end of the chargers thing. Who knows who was to blame there, but, uh, you know what I mean? Like that, that operation was pretty good between those two. And I would like that for the next quarterback. Uh, M Sullivan says, Nick's can't read defenses. I have a newsflash for you. No college quarterback knows how to read NFL defenses. That's why you teach them. And if they figure it out, they might be good. And if they don't, they won't be.

Most of the time, unless they're absolute freaks. But nobody, no college quarterback could show up at the NFL today and read defenses in the NFL. It's so much different. It's so much different. And that's why you have to build an offense for that guy. And you have to build around his strengths. And you have to work with that player in the same way that we've seen from Houston working with C.J. Stroud.

It's a lot C.J CJ Stroud and his arm talent, but it's not all that. I mean, his offensive coordinator also is very, very good at dialing up open wide receivers, which is what turned into a huge debate on the internet. But the reason why CJ Stroud didn't get an unbelievable PFF grade and just a good PFF grade, which really agitated JJ Watt, is because a lot of the receivers were open and anyone could have made the throws. But that's great. That's like a huge, huge plus. That's what you want if you're going to have a rookie quarterback.

So, yeah, none of them can read defenses and none of us can project who will be able to and who won't. What I do know from Bo Nix is that he's a big dude with a big arm. He's a good athlete. He threw the ball insanely well this year, statistically, and that's it. And he doesn't take sacks. That's a big deal to me. Doesn't take sacks. That's it. Right? I mean, what else are you judging on? I mean, they said this about, there's lots of quarterbacks they've said this about. He doesn't process. What? I mean, Patrick Mahomes, I'm sorry, played in a rinky-dink offense.

It was ridiculous. Right? When he was at Texas Tech. He's the best quarterback in the league. Was Josh Allen reading defenses at Wyoming? I don't think so. Not like NFL defenses. So you draft on tools, you draft on character, and you take your best shot.

That's the way I would look at it. Two more questions. This is from JP. Should Kevin consider making changes on the offensive staff, specifically in the run game coordination? Is it a scheme type of problem, coaching or play calling? This is a very hard question because for me to say the running back coach should be fired is a really hard thing because like, I don't know how he works as far as the dynamic goes. Kevin Stefanski

fired some people in Cleveland and everyone went, wait a minute, it wasn't their fault, but what's the dynamic inside the room? These are the guys who do the game plan for you. And if they feel like when they went back and watched the tape, man, we had good run game plans, but Alexander Madison kept running in the back of people. And the analytics kind of pointed that way with rushing yards over expected that he was way short of what they should have gotten. And even by rushing yards over expected, if you have like 3.3 yards per carry over a season, that adds up. That's a big deal.

And that's kind of, I think last time I checked it, that's kind of where Madison was. Then Ty Chandler plays and the running game looks much better. You know, that's a big, should be a big factor too, of like maybe they just made a mistake with which running back was playing or they felt like they couldn't play chandler early in the year so i i don't know but i think the run scheme it is very to me jumbled uh when i watch it

and maybe this was from watching gary kubiak for a a while, but with Gary Kubiak's run scheme, you just understood it so well. You knew exactly how they were going to do it. And everybody knew all the steps and all the blocks and all the situations with this one. It's like, all right, they're running some zone.

No, no, they're running some duo. No, no, they're like, they're just mixing, kind of mixing and matching.

And I'm not sure that was the best fit. I also think that when Dalton riser got here, they improved in past blocking and got worse and run block. And that probably played a role as well. But I think if you get a running back, who's really good that they'll make up for some of that. So I don't, I wouldn't, I have a tough time saying, yeah, fire the coach. Like that. I mean, it's kind of like a thing that sounds good, but I don't really know if that's the right way to go about it. I wouldn't be surprised if they made a change, but the fact that they haven't yet kind of tells me that I don't think they will. I'd rather keep it together and not be shuffling people in and out. If they have a staff that they feel like is good. Dennis says, what does the quarterback class look like for next year?

I have no idea, my man. I had no idea. Well, I mean, I watched throughout the year because I knew that I should be paying attention to these quarterbacks. But even at the beginning of the year, it was like, hey, will Quinn Ewers be the guy? And the answer is no, not really. Will Spencer Rattler show up?

I don't know. Did anyone expect Bo Nix to be this good and put up those numbers? So much can change for next year. I really couldn't tell you what it's supposed to be like, but those projections are usually not even right. And no one even knew about Anthony Richardson until he came out and then was a monster. So you're rolling the dice.

If you're thinking about, hey, well, maybe extend Kirk and then was a monster. So you're rolling the dice. If you're thinking about, hey, well, maybe extend Kirk and then draft a guy the next year after that, you might never coach that quarterback if you're the Vikings. Hamza, sorry if I'm mispronouncing this. Do you think that the Vikings could risk trading back from 11 to 15 or 20, get an extra second round pick and possibly select Bo Nix in an ideal world if Bo Nix is their guy if that's who they really like that's the way to do it right exactly what you laid out which would be I mean I don't know if they get a second round pick maybe they do for a team that's desperate to trade up to get something but uh and and look

like they robbed the Jets in that Christian Derrissaw trade. We kind of forget about that, but they traded up to get Elijah Vera Tucker and the Vikings end up with Derrissaw, who's the better player. In an ideal world, if you don't get one of the top quarterbacks,

being able to slide back just far enough to get extra draft capital and get your guy would definitely be the way you go about it. But if you risk missing out on that guy and then you do, then wow, you look pretty foolish. You know, this is the thing. Everybody's going to have strong takes on quarterbacks. So Mateo says, Bo Nix, yuck, yuck, the dink and dunk king. So I can look this up.

I will. I'll take the time. You know what? We're after nine o'clock, so we've gotten a little weird. So let's look this up. I'm going to pull this up right now and see what Bo Nix did throwing the football down the field. Because you're right.

He did throw a lot of quick passes. That is very true. But he threw a lot of passes overall, so he must have thrown down the field. Let's find out how he did. It's loading. I'll get it for you in just a second. This is great, by the way, to be able to look up this data. Want me to screen share with you?

Let's go. Let's screen share. Here we go. Hopefully it won't melt the computer. Bo Nix is passing. Let's find out. Here we go. We got won't melt the computer. Bo Nix is passing. Let's find out. Here we go. We got it. And bigger version. Hopefully you guys can see that. Okay. So here we go. Let's see. And I don't know the answer to this. I have not looked at this

about his passing depth, but since you asked passing depth. All right. So looks like 11% of his passes went over 20 yards and 20% went over 10 yards. So he did throw a lot of passes behind the line of scrimmage, 30%. I don't know how that compares to other college quarterbacks. When he was throwing deep, he had a 95 PFF grade throwing over 20 yards and a 94.7 PFF grade throwing over 10 yards. And in total 29 touchdowns, three picks 17 big time throws to only three turnover worthy plays quarterback rating in the intermediate area of 145. And that's the NFL conversion. Thank you. PFF looks to me like those numbers are great. Now, some of the look, you know, college numbers are weird and difficult to analyze because, you know, a 90 quarterback grade. Yeah, grade. Hopefully, I know that's a little small for everybody.

Sorry. But he had a 91 PFF grade against Oregon State. That's a pretty good team. A little bit less against Utah. Gosh, not a lot of great teams here. USC's not a great team. Arizona State's not a great team. That is one hard part about this

had an 82 against Washington 377 yards two touchdowns and then in that loss to Washington did not play as well 66 great in that game so uh yeah I mean I think what we learned there is that he definitely throws down the field effectively and to the intermediate areas and had against tougher opponents some good games and some not as good but i think dink and dunk king is probably a little aggressive based on those grades and numbers um you guys are saying that uh next year's class could be pretty good shadur sanders yeah he might go number one overall carson beck jaylen Milrow, I don't know. They're going to have to take huge steps. That actually proves my point.

A lot of questions there. Mateo says, biggest issue with Bo, he ran away from the SEC to play against a bunch of bad teams. He was horrible at Auburn. That is true. He was not very good at Auburn. I also would say that Joe Burrow left Ohio State, played a year at LSU, wasn't that good. And then their criticisms of Joe Burrow were, well, he's got Jamar Chase, Justin Jefferson, and so forth. The competition is so hard to know.

How many games did I name that were worth anything that they played. It's, it's just the competition is so hard to know how many games that I named that were worth anything that they played. It's very hard to know in the sec, even then guys who have played well in the sec have not always become great quarterbacks. So yeah, I don't know. Uh, I agree with this though, that, uh, the thing that intrigues me the most about Bo Nix is that he's very good under pressure and doesn't turn the ball over. Yeah, I agree. Uh, that is when we're talking about things that translate, that's one thing that does historically translate is the mistakes you make. Yeah. I mean, I know. So life is about the odds says offense for Nix is a lot of bubble screens,pos and half field reads which one isn't in college look they don't even have anybody in their headsets it's like very very different and it's

true that he threw a lot we just looked at it 30 of his passes were screens but also when he was throwing down the field, he was really good. So, and half field reads is just such a cliche. Like if you, how many here, I got a stat for you. So PFF did this couple of years ago. They looked at, they actually do it every year with their quarterback annual, how often the quarterback throws to their first read. And the guy who's doing this is Bruce Gradkowski who played in the NFL. So he has a very good sense for where the quarterback would be reading based on the tape and knows schematics and all those stuff better than we do. And what I noticed was most NFL quarterbacks were throwing to their first read 65 to 75% of the time. So how often does a quarterback

like Peyton Manning drop back, go one to two to three back to one, like very rarely, very rarely. I mean, look at, look at what Jordan love. How many times do you think Jordan love has gotten to his third or fourth read a couple and he's made some plays, but most of the stuff there for Jordan love is first read type of stuff, play action type of stuff, then do something special. Like that's, that's, there's very few quarterbacks. I think this is actually what separates Jared Goff in a way and Matt Stafford, but they're like 30 plus golf is like 30 and Stafford's like, you can do that stuff when you're years into the league, but there's just very few quarterbacks who can go through those reads. So that's why it's so tough to tell.

Like, I'm not saying you're wrong. I just think that that's like a thing that always gets said about quarterbacks coming out, but it's just true for so many quarterbacks. I mean, that that's my point about like, if you watch Josh Allen play at Wyoming, it's ridiculous. It's just not even an offense. It's like, just run around, try to do something. Uh, and the follow-up from Mateo, Jaden Daniels would be my guy for sure. And it is Jaden. I've been better at this lately. I've been better. Although I was on somebody else's podcast and I meant to say David Carr and said Derek Carr. So it happens. But I think I've been much better with the Jaden and Jalen again.

Nano Joe says, I like Knicks. Wouldn't be upset if they drafted him. And that's my thing is it'll be. I want everyone to have opinions on these quarterbacks and I want us to look into it. I want us to talk to everybody and figure it out and do the best we can. Cause that's what we do here at the same time. It's very hard to picture a scenario where they draft one of these quarterbacks and I go, well, that was a bad pick, right?

I mean, because there's a lot to like with all of them. You call up, you you know bo nix's stats and when he's thrown over 20 yards in the air he's got a 96 pff great like whoa this is not stuff that you saw from malik willis or stuff that you saw from sam howell in that draft or even will levis who had terrible stats like these guys they they all played extremely well and they all have you know good skill sets um timothy says what's your top five quarterbacks in this draft i listened to uh online committee oh or is that online committee do you agree or disagree with well uh you must not have finished that comment sorry but uh my top five uh quarter or do i agree that there's five? Is that what you mean?

Could be. For me, it's hard to say it's not Caleb Williams. I like Drake May a lot, but it's hard to say it's not Caleb Williams. And then Drake May, Jaden Daniels, four and five's hard. I think Pennix is a better prospect, but I also, Nix is a better athlete, so I also, Knicks is a better athlete. So I might lean Knicks by an edge, but I mean, both of them have a case. And then McCarthy would be six for me.

That's how I would have it. But even if they drafted McCarthy, you could see the arm strength and his performance overall was good. He just didn't throw the ball a lot. Oh man. So, all right. Well well we've gone longer than usual because so many of you are participating uh what is uh marty gross says oh that's to somebody else what will you say if the packers show up with the same team that they had in dallas and upset san francisco yeah i i think you're gonna hear a collective Very loud cuss word

From the state of Minnesota If the Green Bay Packers go to San Francisco And won This from Hamza, feel free to correct My pronunciation of your name Mike Renner has Bo Nix As the third best quarterback in the draft

There's going to be a lot Of opinions on these guys and I look forward to it. And Mike will come on the show for sure, for sure. I want to hear why that is. And probably a lot of it has to do with the data. Jay says the pre-draft process will be interesting. Medicals for Pennix and combines for Nix and McCarthy. Minshew is my pick for bridge quarterback.

Like it. I like it. I think that Minsu's accuracy would maybe be a bit of a concern but he's gutsy he's a good leader all that stuff um i've gotten this question a few times from the stoned gamer uh what do you think about the vikings getting fields i think that they'll trade him to a team where he can't hurt them if he works out because if they trade him they're gonna he's pretty good like he's not great but he's pretty good and he could get better and they've got to know that and if they traded him to minnesota and gave him justin jefferson and

jordan addison i mean you are just asking to get beat twice a year and have that blow up in your face that's why usually historically when that happens, like Baker Mayfield and Sam Darnold, both got traded to Carolina. Josh Rosen got traded to Miami. Normally it doesn't happen within the conference. So you'd look at someone like the Raiders for a place for them, because you don't want to run into that guy in the playoffs and have him beat you like Jared Goff just did to the Rams,

I guess. So anyway, we'll see. We'll see what happens. But tomorrow night, preview of all the games with Manny Hill here on the channel starting at eight o'clock. And so I hope you all can join then. But of course, stuff like this, all the questions, all the comments is very, very welcome when Manny and I are doing the show as well. So I have a big old weekend preview then and talk more Vikings as always. So thanks everybody for showing up. Really appreciate it. I mean, just, we've really had some very active crowds recently and I really enjoy that. So you guys seem to be very excited about the off season. And the last question is in your estimation, what do you think the odds are the last question is, in your estimation,

what do you think the odds are the Vikings take a quarterback in the draft? Can I tell you after the combine? Can I tell you after free agency starts? After free agency starts, I'll know a lot better. Right now, I am dead in the middle. Coin flip.

Total coin flip. And I have these discussions all the time with the other reporters. Like, do you get, do you think they're going to do it? Do you think they're bringing them back? Like, you know, all of us are kind of making these arguments and nobody really knows. So I guess we're going to find out, but thanks everybody for joining and we will catch you tomorrow night. Same time. Or actually, well, it starts a lot earlier than this, but you know what I mean? See you guys then.