Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Dallas's Bob Sturm has a DEEP QB conversation about Dak, Mccarthy

Episode Date: December 10, 2025

Bob Sturm of 96.7 The Ticket in Dallas and SturmStack joins the show to discuss J.J. McCarthy's development, Dak Prescott, and the upcoming Vikings-Cowboys game. The Purple Insider podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. Also, check out our sponsor HIMS at https://hims.com/purpleinsider Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider, presented by Fandul. Matthew Collar here. And returning to the show, it's been a while. We haven't had a Vikings and Cowboys matchup at some time. Bob Sturm, the ticket in Dallas, also Bob Sturm. Dot substack, one of the most popular substacks out there these days covering the Dallas Cowboys. Also, it likes to follow that team over in Wisconsin. so I want to talk about that as well. Bob, welcome back to the show, my friend. How are you?

It is always great to be back with you. And I'm doing fantastic. There's, there's somewhat meaningful football still going on down here in Dallas. And we can, we can stretch reality to to appease the masses. And, you know, it is what it is. But it's always, always good to have football in front of us because it's about to go away for a bit. Yeah. Now, for both of us, probably although, although, are people there like holding the door open a crack because Philadelphia keeps being an abomination on offense? Or is it kind of like, I don't know, guys, let's not do that. Hey, there's 12% chance to get into the playoffs or whatever. Well, realistically, I think most people are not canceling going to Mexico in January because of

playoff games. So realistically, that's there. But I will tell you, there's no catnip in the world quite like an eagle's self-destruction. And so to see it happen in real time and really seemingly started in Dallas when they had a 21-0 lead, I mean, it's so much like 2023 that it's eerie. And the Eagles, you want to talk about content creation,

what the Eagles do every year, which is either go to and maybe even win a Super Bowl or have the most painful self-destruction in real time, time, like there's no in between. So if Eagles fans all seem a little bit insane, it's possible that there actually, uh, there's a reason for the insanity because I've never seen a more all or nothing franchise right in front of our face than what the Eagles are. And obviously it starts with a crazy coach, a quarterback that everybody will debate till the end of time. And, uh, I don't know, man. I don't, I don't want to cover the Eagles because it kind of looks like, uh, one of the most

bitter places to debate football, but I have to admit, their script writers are on point. Yeah, that's for sure. The positivity bunny will not be inflated in their in their locker room this week. It's strange, though, because when they played the Vikings, they couldn't run it all, which is really the impetus of their entire offense. That's where it all starts. But they hit a bunch of downfield passes and their offense looked great against the Vikings. and then it has looked like complete garbage since then. And, you know, I was covering a game that day and didn't get to see the details of the comeback by Dallas against them or at least focus on that game.

What the heck happened in that one? I mean, it feels like Philly should have won all of these games and yet has just found a way to let it slip. Yeah, well, I mean, that game was pretty wild because there were some gifts from Dallas. early on. And honestly, I don't think the Eagles get to 21 without the Cowboys doing them some favors. They failed on a fourth down at midfield. And there was also a play where the Cowboys partially blocked a punt and then ran into the punter. And the Fox cameras finally found an angle

like 15 minutes later that showed that Ryan Flannoy actually did block the punt. but already the penalty's been assessed. The free first down, the free 15 yards, put the Eagles in a spot where they were actually able to get two touchdowns fully aided from the Cowboys. And so the Cowboys down 21-0 felt more like that Packers playoff game in 23 where, yes, let's give Green Bay credit. But let's also understand Dallas gift-wrapped the game in such a historic fashion that probably Mike McCarthy should have been fired on that. that day. And, and of course, in a very Jerry Jones way, they kicked the can for another basically, you know, 12 months as Rome burns. And so the Eagles didn't even look very good that day. I just saw the stat online that is crazy that that Chargers game was the first

time this season. The Eagles have 200 yards passing and 100 yards rushing in the same game, which is something the Cowboys have done 10 times this season. And it's, not it's not extraordinary that's called sunday is what it is but for the eagles it's the first time this year i was uh you'll be amused at this one i so i've got a son named brett and he is named brett because that's what cheese heads do and and uh november 10th was his 21st birthday and so we're like okay november 10th your 21st birthday we've got to go to lambo uh we got and so it's the monday night game against the eagles and and that game was very similar to all these other eagles games where the eagles are just

terrified of doing anything on offense and i you know it's a it's a really weird deal how they view their offensive approach relative to like their talent level which i think most of us would say that looks like the most talented offensive group in the league it just does i mean where would where's the weaknesses um and they tried nothing and of course the packers uh with with with mat lefleur i think we could argue one of his major faults in life is that he is very Jason Garrity, scared of his shadow, and doesn't want to do anything to make a mistake. And so you had two teams with really good defenses daring the other team to try anything. And it just, you know, it was a game played

between the 40s and very frustrating to watch. Brett did get carded for the first time or at least passed his with a legal ID he got uh you know it was funny to uh to see the guy at lambo say oh enjoy your first taste of alcohol on your 21st birthday but uh but otherwise it was a pretty garbage night there at lambo so i'm between the packers and the cowboys and the tush push comedy coming out of green bay where the NFL owners made sure that the packers the only team without an owner has to claim that they're the ones who don't like the tush push so it's uh there I've got a lot of Eagles content here, even though that's not one of the teams I cover. But it's incredibly fascinating.

And yes, there is a chance that they go two and two coming in, which is why the Cowboys are probably not planning on it working, but they definitely want to go four and oh themselves to at least keep the heat on the Eagles. So that's a long answer for you. Well, I was thinking, I wonder how many people in Green Bay, Wisconsin, and are named Brett between the ages of like 20 and 30. I would guess it's like half the population in that demographic probably has that name.

It's not. But, you know, the Eagles thing is really fascinating because I think that it sort of dovetails into a conversation about J.J. McCarthy about even Dak Prescott, which is what is it that a quarterback really needs to succeed? And there was a belief, I would say,

until even this year where we were talking about, okay, well, there are certain guys that are invincible that no matter what the circumstances are, it doesn't matter. There actually might only be one guy who's invincible and that might be in Buffalo, but even Patrick Mahomes has been very human. The, I'd say the last two to three years, Lamar Jackson, I guess when he's playing at half strength or half health or whatever the heck is going on with him, he did not look the same against Minnesota. He has certainly looked even. worse since then. And he's looked very, very human. And I think with Jalen Hertz, what makes football so great is we could debate, is the guy actually good? Who is he better than? Where would

you rank him and all that stuff? But if we're doing it in the most, you know, ball type of way, you would say under certain circumstances, this guy can win a Super Bowl. But it has to check every single box. He has to have a great running game. It can't just be an okay running game or bad. He has to have a great offensive line because he hangs on to the ball for a really long time. He has to have his receivers win the jump balls that he's throwing down field. And if they drop it like A.J. Brown, you will probably not win that many games. But if those boxes get checked, you can win the Super Bowl. And with J.J. McCarthy this year, it's been a lot of the discussion here of, well, do they have the right system for him?

Is it the most ideal of what they put on his plate? Is it been the offensive line injuries and different rotations that they've had up there? Because Christian Derisaw hasn't been 100%. Jordan Addison's dropped more footballs than he usually drops. T.J. Hawkinson is still not what he was from two years ago. And how much is that caught all of that causing J.J. McCarthy to not succeed versus can J.J. McCarthy just not do this because there are certainly quarterbacks in the past. So I don't know how you kind of process that through the lens of what you've seen with

Dak Prescott, but I feel like there's a same set of circumstances where Dak Prescott is a top five quarterback, but you have to get those all correct at the same time. Yeah, yeah, boy, that's, that's a great conversation. And it's one I'm obsessed with, honestly, because the quarterback is everything in the sport, but it's also nothing without the proper support system. And, and even more so through the lens. of Dak Prescott, or the lens of Jordan Love, or, you know, hypothetically, a number of these

quarterbacks that are different parts of their narrative, you see how they have their train wheels on, and then they keep advancing to a point where, okay, we now we can take the train wheels off, we can give you more authority in this offensive. All these themes get talked about, like in training camp, when all of us have to write, okay, it's a new season, how, what's the approach for for season five with this quarterback or season eight with this quarterback. And all I know is watching this sport at a very close, obsessive level for a long time is I am now a full believer in the 10,000 hour rule of Malcolm Gladwell and outliers and everything, because you can see it. You can see how DAC Prescott in 2016 was put on the field with a very talented supporting cast. and they tried to basically engineer a game plan that is,

please do not screw this up. And so every pass was to the boundary or to the sidelines in a sense of let's stay away from the middle of the field because that's where bad things happen. Let's stay away from third and long because that's where bad things happen. And so once you understand the calculations that go into every down and distance and even every place on the field of quarterback play, then you can see, understand the, excuse me, here, the rationale behind how we call things,

how much danger are we willing to take on. The risk-reward ratio is constant, which is why you do get these coaches who are maddenly conservative. They are, I mean, they've been burned too many times and they just have too many scars of what bad can happen on each particular play or each particular game plan. And so, you know, when you play Micah Parsons, for instance, the remedy is we're not

going to throw a pass or we're not going to, you know, and we're not going to give him a chance. So that's what, you know, that Monday night against the Eagles, if you look back. And this is why cherry picking sack numbers is so frustrating, whether it's Jared Allen or Micah Parsons or whoever you say, well, actually, he only got sacks against bad teams and backup quarterbacks. Okay, let's explain how sacks work. You get sacks three out of four times. I think it's 70% when you have a lead. And, and you know, and so, so yes, invariably, sacks do come against teams that are behind and teams that are behind are invariably teams that are struggling. And they're probably going to have quarterback injuries, bad quarterback situations, and they're going to be

more desperate. And so teams that are ahead, like the Eagles last year, now can set the narrative to their terms. We're not going to pass when we don't want to. We're not going to give your pass rushers even a chance. We're going to, you know, and so once we get through that, and then the life experiences of years and years and years of good and bad, that's where you get to a guy I like Dak Prescott, Tony Romo narratives are actually wildly fascinated when you lay them side by side because about a month and a half ago, DAC went past the career totals of Tony Romo in terms of games played, games started. And so when you get there, it occurs to you that the best Tony Romo was the last two years

of Tony Romo. So the year of the Descatch is probably his very best season, 2014. Unfortunately, his body broke in 2015 and his career ended in 2016. And the similarities are that Tony Romo understood the game at a level that was like his Jedi night, you know, training had been completed, right? And unfortunately, as your, as your intelligence and IQ and training goes up, your body goes down. and usually you try to meet right in the middle and, say, age 30, where my body is still okay, but now my brain has developed, and unfortunately, a lot of guys never get there. In the case of Dak Prescott, though, his training is now complete, and it appears his body's fine.

Now, he's never had postseason success, which is why the shouty shows will never place him in the top five. But I do think Dak is a great, you know, a great example of do you know, ball or not. Do you understand what the quarterback is all about? And I think if you do watch his pre-snap ability to get his team into the right plays and his post-snap ability to not do anything too terribly stupid very often, then I think you see that DAC is one of the more intelligent players in the game right now and his body's healthy, which tells me his prime might just be starting as opposed to everyone's attention span of DAC is waiter take this away. I've had enough.

I know who he is. Well, I don't think you do because I think he's the best version of himself right now, even though his defense is comically bad. Folks, are you overwhelmed by the number of different options for hair loss? Are you exhausted by looking around the internet for answers and watching late night television commercials, seeing if any of the options will work for you? Well, getting your hair back doesn't have to be that complicated. If you want to be happy with your hair when you look in the mirror, then Hymns can help you get that confidence back. Hems can help you with prescription treatments that have clinically proven ingredients like monoxidil and finestri that can help stop further hair loss and regrow hair within three to six months.

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Prescription required. See website for full details, restrictions, and safety information. Well, and I do think his defense, this is interesting too, because I think his defense being comically bad has also helped him because when you're playing in these shootouts a lot, you're throwing a ton and defenses are playing prevent defenses and you've got more space. We went through that with Kirk a lot of times of, Like where did these stats actually come from?

Well, he threw for 350 and three touchdowns, right, but you guys were down 17 points in the first half, which has kind of been a thing for deck. This is also why we use the PFF grades that actually grade the plays rather than just looking at box scores or, you know, accolades or whatever because he is the third best quarterback in the NFL this year. And having watched enough Dallas Cowboys, because for some reason, they're on TV a lot. It's weird. Isn't that something? It is something. They didn't flex this one, even though there's at least two or three better games. Oh, yeah, because everyone watches the Dallas Cowboys.

But, you know, his performance, if he still had the mobility of early in his career, I think he would be really blowing the league away. And this has been a lot of a discussion here, Bob, about J.J. McCarthy and how much he can actually process, how much he can actually see, simplifying, you know, the offense and all that sort of stuff. And the DAC arc is he goes from a guy that everyone talked about, well, it's his old line. It's Ezekiel Elliott. It's their defense. And the Vikings played Dallas in 2016.

And I remember that game where DAC might have thrown 20 passes. And then as he's grown and grown, I think the more you see him, the more you see now, someone who is the orchestra leader there at the line of scrimmage identifying things. And then post snap, he could see coverages. And, you know, the Vikings have played him a few times. and they've also played like Cooper Rush and stuff and Andy Dalton because of his injuries. But I'm trying to think the last time I think it might have been maybe 2019 the last time where he threw about 50 passes to Amari Cooper.

And it was then I always kind of judge players, you know, I know as unfair, but how they perform against the Vikings is sort of my impression of them. And I was blown away by that game, especially watching the tape back where you're like, man, the anticipation on that throw. oh, there was the 41 to whatever game in 2022. He had some sick throws in that game too. And, but that was against the really horrible defense, 2019. It wasn't.

And so my impression of him was, wow, like he took Zimmer's defense to task that night. Should have won that game. There was some bad play calls at the end by Jason Garrett. But I have felt since that he is exactly what you're describing as the growth and development of a quarterback to reach a certain prime. And with our conversation here, Bob, we are so far away from that with J.J. McCarthy. When you start talking about how little football the guy is played, it actually blows your mind because they didn't throw much at Michigan. And then he gets to the NFL. He misses his first whole season. And then this year, we're talking about game number eight of his career.

He's been on the team for 615 days. And he's playing game number eight. And we're all supposed to figure out what this means. But at the same time, when you have a, a roster core that is older and you have a roster that's stacked and a defensive coordinator who's in the top five DCs in the NFL. And Justin Jefferson's here going anytime now would be perfectly fine. That's right. There's the real challenge of, I think we all know that if you gave J.J. McCarthy five years to develop, there's a really good chance he becomes an excellent quarterback, but nobody's got that kind of time. No, no. And that's one of the biggest problems with the NFL right now is that they don't have a reasonable quarterback development plan in

place. And so it's up to each team to figure it out, except they don't have a farm system. They can't even use the Spring League, which I think is the most obvious solution, is lit the Spring League. You know, and you probably have to have some things in place, some great insurance policies, because nobody wants their guy to blow out his knee, you know, playing for Birmingham. ham in the spring. Right. But I mean, that's, that's clearly the way to help develop these quarterbacks because the way we do it right now is we draft them super high. We give them a ton of money. We know that the looming deadline of when we have to give them their 50 million and by the time what JJ's of age, what is it, 75 million a year that quarterbacks will make,

you know, we've got to commit to them before they've shown us that they're, it makes any sense at all. And so now, thankfully, we actually do have these redemption stories seven and eight and nine years into their, their NFL careers, the Sam Darnolds of the world, the Baker Mayfields of the world, to prove that you guys weren't all insane when you thought Sam Darnold was a good college quarterback, but he just needed time. This is the Trey Lance thing. When the Cowboys trade for Trey Lance, like we all see Trey Lance's tools, he just has to go to quarterback college. Well, when you traded for him, he had one year left on his deal. And so did Dak. So where do you think Tray Lance is going to play? Well, he's going to play scout team quarterback at practice. Okay,

well, that's not, I'm sorry, that is not a good plan. There's, like, if you trade for Tray Lance and he has three years left on his deal and Dak's expiring, I get the plan. Okay, we're going to let Dak walk and we're going to bring in this guy and we're going to commit to him and we're going to rebuild. I don't like the plan. I think it's silly. But, it's at least a plan the one where they have the exact same timeline where what are you playing for that if dac gets hurt tray lance will get to play and we'll get to train him and and even you know you guys are showing right now that that you know training him on the job the NFL doesn't have the appetite coaches get fired GMs get fired um fans lose their mind by the third week of watching a young

quarterback who clearly shouldn't be on the field. And so it's just, this is why Birmingham or Madrid or wherever these teams might be where you're sort of off the grid. Now we'll find your games. We will talk about them. I mean, gosh, guys like you and I

who have to keep the content creation coming, we would love to have our quarterback in a spring league where we could, you know, fire out two or three more pieces a week in the middle of draft season. That would be very fun for us. But it's just It's kind of a broken system right now where, like, baseball seems to make sense where they just have a service time situation where we don't have to give you the moon until at least you show that you're a reasonable major league baseball player.

Football doesn't have that. We have to draft you super high. We have to give you the moon before you show you can play. And then, you know, I remember being at your stadium last year, New Year's week, because, the Green Bay, Minnesota game I was at, by the way, awesome stadium. Yeah. You know, as a cheese head, I kind of want to hate everything up there, but I have to admit, that was a really fun place to watch a game, even though the Packers acted like they had no intention of winning.

But regardless, I have a way of going to Packer losses, it seems. Anyway, I would just say I was leaving that game and hanging out with a couple of my biggest Vikings fans, I know. And they were nice enough to accommodate Brett and I last year. And we're leaving the stadium or we're headed to the stadium, something that day. And we're talking about the quarterback situation. I'm like, man, I feel like this is obvious. You slap the tag on Sam and you leave camp planning to play JJ. And you have it in place. And they're like, yeah, but we can we can get more offense and defensive line with that money. And isn't that crazy to pay a backup quarterback 40 million? It's crazy. There's no doubt.

it's crazy, but it's also your best choice. So sometimes your best choice is a crazy choice, but I thought that was an obvious move. Clearly, the Vikings brass did not. I don't, I doubt, I don't know, maybe you can tell me. Is anyone going to get fired at the end of this season? I guess I don't know. It kind of looks like your GM is on some thin ice and maybe the shine on your coach is not quite what it was, but that is a cat. That is a cat. catastrophic decision as we look back at, you know, why the Vikings are where they are right now is to be so uncovered at quarterback and just be like, man, we're sure this guy is going to be great. Whoa. That is rolling the dice, my friend. Well, in terms of people's job security, Dallas is going to have something to do with that. I think over these last four games, there's plenty of opportunity to win and look fine. That's right. And have J.J. McCarthy improve. and be able to sell the ownership on like, well, the early part of the season included Carson Wentz.

Let's not forget that that McCarthy has had these stops and starts that are uncontrollable. They had a ton of injuries early. It's super ironic to have the healthiest team in the NFL going into week 14 or 15 here. I mean, it's like what? Usually that's early in the season and then you deal with the injuries. To your point, though, about that decision and young quarterbacks, here's a fun stat for you. Drake May, Jackson Dart, and C.J. Stroud are the only top 20 rated quarterbacks in terms of quarterback

rating who have less than four years experience this year. Wow. And I'll read you some of the other ones. Pennix 22nd, Daniels 23rd, Bryce Young 24th, Caleb Williams, 26th, Spencer Rattler, you know, not playing anymore, but 27th, Bo Knicks, 28th, Tyler Shuck, 35th, Shudder Sanders, 36, Dylan Gabriel, 37, Cam Ward 41st and J.J. McCarthy, 44th out of 44. So all of those guys, those young quarterbacks clearly are over their heads facing NFL defenses today. There was a shift, I think very, you can like mark it down after the 2021 season where defenses went, enough of this, 21, maybe into 22, enough of this. We are now going to mind bleep these quarterbacks with this is what blew me away about watching Washington

was I could identify the coverage pre-snap and I was like, did you guys prepare for this game? Because what I'm used to is Chicago, Dennis Allen, and he's shifting coverages all over the place. And McCarthy's like, I don't know. Jeff Halfley is a sociopath. Because you never know where the blitz is coming from, where guys are lining up.

It's partially Brian Flores's fault, but he was kind of first on the moment here for this, right? So once he designed this and then everybody else, else who was maybe bubbling with this, like he invented the lightball, but I'm sure a lot of other people were working on it. And then they went, okay, that's how it works. And now if you're a young quarterback, you're dropping back to pass and not knowing what you're looking at. Whereas Joe Flacko's like, oh, yeah, they shifted into an inverted cover too. I know where to go with this. And what that to me says is that we need to go back the way we used to handle young

quarterbacks. Rookie quarterback contract be damned, kind of like with Green Bay. that McCarthy probably needed a Jordan love-like plan. But quarterbacks who get drafted that high, they have agents and they have marketing people and they have a lot of pressure too. Jordan loves a special person to just sit quietly and do his work. And you imagine how frustrated that guy was? So, like, there's all that.

But I think the miscalculation of the Vikings organization was they thought we're different. We have Jefferson. The rules do not apply to us with the young. young inexperienced quarterback because of our system, our receivers, the money we spent on our roster. And what turned out to be was the rules apply to everyone pretty much, except for Drake May at the moment. But the rules seem to, and even him last year, he struggled quite a bit. The rules apply to everyone these days with young quarterbacks.

They absolutely do. And man, I think you're on to some great lines of thought there. even yesterday, you know, and the Packers just got done with Caleb. And we talk about Jalen Hertz every day. And, of course, one of the most intriguing offseason quarterbacks is Kyler. And all three, Kyler Murray, who, gosh, we talk about potential Minnesota ideas for the offseason. I wouldn't rule that out. But if you look at Kyler Murray, Caleb Williams, and Jalen Hertz, they all have one thing in common for me, which is Lincoln Riley. And if you want to, I mean, obviously, Baker Mayfield is also there.

So I'm not saying it's a perfect theory. But the more you look at where the college and pro game are going from a quarterback standpoint, the more you do wonder, how smart are these quarterbacks in terms of knowing. I mean, I don't want to make it sound like high school kids understand coverages because they play Madden more than NFL quarterbacks do because that's insane. but I do know where to go with the ball if I see cover four. Now, I don't know what it's like to get sacked. And I'm not, I'm not trying to say that really a video game kid is,

is smarter about coverages than an NFL quarterback. What I am trying to say is the whole point of the college football system has been to simplify for a quarterback. And simplifying for a quarterback is, to put it, a little rudely, dumbing it down to, I want you to go one to two, and then we're going to hit the check and get out of here. And we're not going to do full field reads. We're not going to autobotal on a scrimmage. The days of Aaron Rogers, basically, and Aaron has a lot of abrasive qualities, and he's not terribly likable even to a lifelong Packer fans. So I, you know,

I just want to be clear that I'm not under any sort of Aaron Rogers spell. But to hear him talk about coverages when his guard is down and he's not being peak Aaron is like attending a college class. Like I've heard him break down the best ways to beat cover three, the best ways to, you know, oh, here's, you know, there's a number of ways that like he just sounds like one of the smartest people you've ever heard in attacking defenses in a wise way. Now, his play does not always reflect that. And speaking of conservative, yes, I do agree that Aaron Rogers probably could have been better if he wasn't worried about his quarterback rating at all time. So all that's true. But I am saying I don't think that Caleb Williams has any idea what he's looking at.

Now, does it matter? Is Ben Johnson kind of an NFL version of Lincoln Riley that he can be so good at designing solutions that you never actually have to know how to attack a cover for? Okay, maybe. But I don't think Caleb Williams knows what he's looking at. I know for a fact Jalen Hertz doesn't. And I know for a fact that Kyler Murray has no idea because he's always been the best player on the field and the most athletic. And his solutions work most of the time. And if you have solutions that work most of the time, you're often not motivated to find solutions that work all of the time. And so it's kind of the circular deal where their success is based on putting them in a

situation where they have very clear objectives. And Kevin O'Connell is a guy who seems to get people to this spot as well. And so we are in a weird way, we are not asking our quarterbacks to become as intelligent as we once did. And therefore, they're not becoming as intelligent as they once seemed and and and it's this it's this big circular discussion isn't it it's a it's very much chicken and egg because the as we're having this pure progressions discussion which I never thought that uh we would go this far down a rabbit hole on on on all this and Brian Hoyer's responding and Luke McCown and I'm just like this is my uh this is my immaculate grid come to life here to talk about you know pure progressions but it's been really interesting because the idea the

concept of the peer progression thing is if we can create a one two three type of system where you're checking for the first read and if it's not there who was it that made it not there and there should be some sort of vacancy based on that and what that allows for is you don't really have to sit there and go all right that is inverted cover two is a good example because it looks so funky to watch why is the safety coming down here and the corner is going back there what is going on, right? So you don't have to immediately. And people also don't realize how MFing fast this stuff happens. Like you are talking about lightning bolts. Right. So like it, you get the snap. And then, you know, these guys have to process it so quickly. So what they're trying to do is to say,

all right, you have to just look at your first read. And then if it's not there, that should give you the next read. And then if that's not there, as you said, then just go ahead, check it down, scramble for a first down. And then we keep the train on. the tracks. And I think that Kevin O'Connell's theory was, I can take that idea and I can dress it up. So I can do a little bit of a wrinkle here. And I can do a little bit of a motion there. And I remember it was one of the wide receivers told me, he was like a veteran wide receiver who had been around said there is more formations in this offense than any other offense in the NFL. But that's part of the window dressing of this very simple, basic idea.

Complex simplicity. Exactly, which I think is on its face, like a really good idea for young quarterbacks, but eventually that just runs out. And I think part of when it runs out is when Michael Parsons plays for the other team, where it's like, okay, I'm at one and who, and I'm dead. Like, so you need to be a little faster than that. And that's also a theory about, you know, why the offensive line tends to give up more pressures. And because I think this stuff can be a little slow. And you see Joe Flacko protecting himself. We'll probably see Philip Rivers do it because he knows what it is. He identifies it immediately gets rid of the football. But J.J. McCarthy is not identifying it that quickly. But the only answer that we can really continue to circle back to is, well,

he's just got to play a lot of football games to see it. There's only, we realize this, there was a big discussion last year about VR, virtual reality. We're strapping the headset on them. That's right. So that's, okay, there's nothing. like it. Micah Parsons can't kill you in the VR, right? So there's a, there's a whole thing about, like, we keep coming back to the same solution, which is he has to just play and play and play and play. But then when do you decide whether he can actually play? And I also wanted to bring up something on your point about those quarterbacks that you mentioned. Lincoln Riley's a connection. Here's another connection. They all run. And what has the NFL been working on for the

last five years. Once Mahomes starts destroying the league, scrambling, rolling around with those defensive guys weren't sitting home being like, I don't know, guess we're screwed. Let me go back to the golf course. No, they were in their offices working 24-7 trying to figure out how can we stop Kyler Murray. How can we stop Jalen Hertz? The scrambling element of it was you have to have a quarterback who runs and scrambles. So every defense is like, all right, well, we've got to design our defense to stop runners and scrambleers. That's right. And, and also what those guys have in common, they throw a lot of deep balls, which also now you see everybody playing the two deep safeties to take that stuff away.

And this is what makes our game so freaking beautiful, Bob. There's no doubt. There's no doubt about it. Yeah, I mean, that's the weird thing when people like compliment Jalen Hertz on throwing a great deep ball. I'll walk you all the way back to Quincy Carter and say that Quincy Carter. best pass was when he knew that the safety wasn't going to mess up a go route. And, and, you know, and so I think it's, I think it's the most basic thing in the world to say that a quarterback can throw a 40 yard, uh, drop in the bucket down the sideline pass because that is one where they feel safe and they feel confident that this is not going to ruin my week and maybe

my career by getting me barbecued for throwing a horrible interception across the middle. So that's, you know, the more you look at this, the more quarterback play seems to come down to two things. One, do they throw the ball with confidence over the middle? And I'm not saying you have to. I am saying it tells me that you are seeing the secondary with confidence. One of the guys who never gets credit from anybody in this league is Jared Goff. And the way Jared Goff fires digs with such confidence. and such belief that this is absolutely where I want the ball.

And I'm going to, I'm going to break a dinner plate with my accuracy. Like he has, when he has a clean pocket, he throws the ball as, as accurately as anybody since Drew Breeze in my mind. And like, it is so good. There was a third and six against Dallas last Thursday night, uh, in the fourth quarter where Detroit actually is allowing Dallas back in the game. It's like 30, 27. his his pass to jameson as as he's got somebody right in his face he puts it on his hands at such speed and and and incisive greatness that you know i just think jared goff is wildly underrated and i think part of it is he kind of looks like he might not be the brightest bulb and and he's got that california reputation just all all that but i i think i think he's spectacular

unless you can hit them 10 times in a game. And that's hard to do with Detroit. But to circle back to that, one element is to me, do you throw the ball in the middle of the field? And by the way, the answer is no to all three of those quarterbacks we just named. And then,

and by the way, height might have something to do with it. Yes. You can't actually see it. And then the second one is just, I don't know, I don't know that I'm a full believer. And by the way,

I love your book. And I think people should read your book about, PFF and and and this is a quick digression but maybe this whole conversation is a digression one on top of the next because that's that's that's that's how we roll and it's it's fun um the the touchdown interception differential ratio is is one of the worst stats in the world but I do believe in big time throws versus turnover where this plays being such a great great great thing now of course it's subjective and of course there are times where I'm like how come this one wasn't called a big time throw or whatever but it's

it's such an advancement in our brains and I think it's a much more useful stat and so that's there the other thing though and this is a quarterback intelligentsia debate that will never end or maybe it did end and I just

won't give in on it which is our sacks a quarterback stat and and the reason I push back on it is I see the value in a franchise left tackle I see the value in a franchise left tackle I see the value

you in great pass protection. And I know what goes into it. And I know that the best teams can pick up a, a double A gap, you know, cross blitz. You know, they can just hand it off one to the next. And offensive line play is so beautiful and so important. However, the further I go into this game and the more I see the commonalities of these Jedi quarterbacks who have completed their 10,000 hours.

I do see that you just can't freaking sack them because the offense is so on time. And the quarterback is saying, I'm not an offensive lineman, but I am going to be my best pass protector today. And sometimes, at least when I was coming up, it felt like we wanted to start meowing at those guys who get the ball out fast, like they're not man enough to take a concussion for the cause. And then you watch Peyton Man, planning play 20 seasons. And you watch Tom Brady play like 25 seasons, whatever it is. I'm sure

I'm exaggerating. But you watch these guys look fully healthy past their 40th birthday. And you're like, doggone, there's a connection here. These guys who get the ball out and take profits, they don't hold the ball and wait for the perfect play. They are willing to take a five-yard profit to keep the trains on time. Those are the guys who can play 20 years. I bet you there's a reason. I bet you those two things are connected. And so that those are the two tests. to me is can you get the ball out on time, but not a throwaway into the sidelines. I mean, for a profit, you know, it might just be five yards, but it is moving the ball down the field. So you have a plan. You're getting rid of the ball with a plan.

And part of that is scheme solutions, but part of it is you see it and you know where you're going. And then can you attack a team between the numbers. And if you can't attack a team between the numbers, then you're Jalen Hertz. And you're waiting for outs and goal balls, which are safe. And I understand not wanting to ever turn the ball over, but at some point, we've got to get to 200 yards passing. We've got to break 20 points. And the Eagles haven't broken 20 points more than they got the 21 in Dallas. But otherwise, they haven't broken 20, 20 since October. And that's why they are where they are right now. Wow. Yeah. So a few things there. This is the Jared Goff Respector show because he has annihilated every version.

of the Vikings defense. What they did to him earlier this year, even though they still almost won that game, was the best they've ever played against him. But he's had unbelievable performances against the Vikings. So a ton of respect for him. And I also think that if he just didn't look so silly when he ran, like he looked so.

It's like Drew Bledso where he'd stand in the pocket and rip balls all day. But then if he needed to scramble a little, it was just like, oh my gosh, is this guy ever played sports before? That's right. And, you know, else had this problem when he tried to throw on the run was Alex Smith. He was really athletic, but if he was scrambling outside the pocket and through the ball, it would just like go in the

dirt. And that's a Jared Gough issue. To your point, J.J. McCarthy, second in the league in pressure to sack ratio. Cam Ward's right behind him. Tyler Shucks right behind him. Jackson Darts right behind him. Even the great Drake May is still taking way too many sacks. Setting protections is a quarterback thing as well. And the most aware quarterbacks understand what they have in front of them. Sam Bradford in 2016, who you saw, uh, he understood that his offensive line couldn't play and he was just getting rid of the football. So there's a lot to that all of those layers and what you come up with after this whole conversation is, man, it's hard to play quarterback in the NFL, especially when you have it before. But let's get to

this though, Bob, because I've really loved this, uh, philosophical discussion. But I have to ask you, what type of defense is J.J. McCarthy? facing because after last week, I think it was quite clear that if you are horrific at defense like the commanders, that JJ can have a perfectly clean day with no mistakes. There was a lot of, as you mentioned, throws to the boundaries that were wide open. There were shocking mistakes in coverage. And I don't think we've made enough of the Ready Stewart revenge angle here. People don't even know who that is. He was, I saw him in a game. And I think it was made. maybe Aikman or someone was like, you know, I love how this Reddy Stewart looks.

And I'm like, the same one that I was third teamer in Vikings camp. Like, hey, good for him. He's playing some decent football. It's nice on right in the other direction. Right. It's right. And there is a real conversation here of like, maybe you should just keep your younger guys and maybe develop them as opposed to signing Jeff Okuda, but not too many critiques of

Brian Flores this year. So what is J.J. McCarthy looking at in the Dallas defense? Man, the Dallas defense is, I would say about five players away from being a really good defense. And that's kind of been the theme down here for a while. I mean, Micah Parsons is a fantastically interesting topic for both teams that I follow, obviously. And when I heard that Micah was traded to Green Bay, it felt like one of the weirder stories in a year where Luca Donchich was traded through the Lakers. Like, it's one thing to trade a generational stud.

It's another thing to trade it directly to a team you can't stand. And for the Mavericks to give the Lakers their best player probably in franchise history, and then for the Cowboys to trade Micah Parsons. Parsons is a different one, though, because the whole city cried when Luca was traded and still do. The Micah one's interesting because that was more of a, eh, we weren't that great with him. He's, you know, he's annoying.

And by the way, so is Luca, but also, by the way, Micah is annoying to a lot of people, like especially when he's attached to the cowboys, boy misery of 30 years. And I know Vikings fans don't want to hear about anyone else's misery. But the misery of Micah and also the podcasting, the, you know, all these things. And I don't care what a guy does in his free time. I really don't, but I do know fans do. And so if you want to dig down on why Micah is his, his, his History is being revised by Cowboy fans.

It's because, you know, he's just part of the failure. And by the way, every single person that's come through here over the last 30 years has been attached to, well, they weren't that good. You know, regardless of who it is, Jason Witten, not that good. Des Bryant, not that good. DeMarcus Ware, not that good. In fact, DeMarcus Ware, if you go back, and I was here for it, of course, if you go back to the DeMarcus Ware discussions, they are the same as the

Micah Parsons ones. We never want anything with him. He never got a big sack. a big game. He always faded in December and January, all these things. And then of course, DeMarcus Ware went directly to Denver and was dominant in the playoffs and had an unbelievably great Super Bowl. And now he has a ring and of course a spot in the Hall of Fame. And now everybody's like, you know what? He was great the whole time. Yes, he was great the whole time. And so was Michael Parsons. So that's a circular route to your direct question of what do the Cowboys have defensively.

they don't have Micah Parsons. And that same game you referenced 30 minutes ago where the Cowboys scored 40 on the Vikings was the same game where I saw Kirk Cousins, you know, considering the rest of his life and how he would like to live it. And he was so terrified of Micah Parsons that day. I've never seen a quarterback of that level kind of mentally tap out of a game because, honestly he had had it with Micah Parsons and um when you have a guy like that and you're so willing to trade him I feel like you've really lost the plot and then when you don't trade him to

like Tennessee where he can never be part of your life again is really weird as well but whatever green Bay's happy to have him and and I think they believe he is worth the contract and the two number ones and I guess you know we'll see how that works out here down the stretch. So when you play the Cowboys, the thing they didn't have in 2024 was defensive tackle play at all. And so in a very Cowboys way, they have gone and signed Ossa Deguizua to $80 million to keep him and then trade for Kenny Clark and then trade for Quinn and Williams. So now they have three defensive tackles who all make $20 million a piece. And it's kind of a comical moving of resources that took your biggest strength and addressed your biggest weakness,

but now your biggest strength is your biggest weakness over here. And you don't have any linebackers behind them because Kenneth Murray might be the worst linebacker I've ever seen at the NFL level. Awesome. Yeah, absolutely awful. And then behind them are two safeties who, you know, haven't really made a play, but also haven't had their jobs challenged in like five years in Donovan Wilson. and Malik Hooker, who must be great guys,

but I just never see, I, I just can't think of a play Malik Hooker's ever made. And, and, you know, that's not to say he's awful. Actually, that's probably a compliment to his safety, if you don't notice him very much. But it's just, it's like, where's the competition in this room? And then at corner, they completely turned on Trayvon Diggs because he had the audacity to get hurt.

And of course, Trayvon Diggs has always had a little bit of a business decision, mentality out there on the edge. He's definitely not Antoine Winfield. And so he's the new guy who makes a lot of money that Cowboys fans can't wait to get rid of. It's a moving target because it's a conveyor belt. It was DeMarcus Lawrence. Oh, let's get rid of him. It's Micah. Let's get rid of him. And now it's now we move on to Trayvon Diggs. So to me, the Cowboys have two number ones they have no number two no number three next year and then i think they get to pick again in the fourth round they got to go defense defense defense defense because um their offense is great assuming they keep george pickens and their defense is ridiculous and now like we said all they have

are defensive tackles that's all they have and so um i would not anticipate running inside on them And I would also anticipate inside pressure because Quinn and Williams is getting like eight pressures a game, it seems like. But there's just nothing consistent on the edge. They have a bunch of platoon edges, I would say, where this guy's good against the run. This guy can rush the quarterback. And so like Dante Fowler types, Don Venezuela, I like a lot, but he's just a baby. But Dante Fowler is like a perfect cowboy's edge right now post-MICA. where you would not want him on the field on a running play.

And in past plays, you know, he can, he can cause some trouble, but not nearly enough. So it's just a bad defense. If it wasn't for the Bengals, we would say this is the worst defense in the league. But the Bengals do live here. So you're going to have to live with like the 31st best defense. Yeah. That's where they are. This, this is, order of operations is funny because if the Vikings opened up against

Washington, Dallas and the New York Giants, J.J. McCarthy might feel like he was the best quarterback in the NFL. Right, right. He might, I mean, I think this is the week where Justin Jefferson 10 for 120 finally happens. I would think. And they break through because there's just not coverage out there. All right. Give me your, give me your prediction here on Fanduil.

The Dallas Cowboys are six and a half point favorites. And the over under for this is 47 and a half points. How are you guys feeling about it? Man, I think the cowboys probably are going to overwhelm the Vikings with offense. This is going to be a great test for Brian Flores. If he can slow down these guys, I will be very impressed because very few teams roll into this situation and slow down what we currently have. So, so, and by the way, I know you don't have to go very far back in the schedule to say this is a ridiculous claim because that Cardinals game did happen in November. And so the Cowboys were very slow that night and, you know, we can debate before the by week and after the by week.

But I would anticipate this looks to me like a 31, 31, 31, 21 type game for the Cowboys. And so I would definitely bang the over. I'm not positive. I'm laying six and a half on the Cowboys anytime soon. But if forced, I would probably go that route. Just because Pickens and Lamb usually are incredibly tough. And if, you know, if you put all your energy into taking them away, then Ferguson and Turpin and Giovante Williams underneath can really cause problems.

So it's tough to slow the Cowboys down at the Death Star. So I would, I would probably roll with them. Well, I vowed not to pick the Vikings the rest of the year after the Seattle game. So I will also be picking Dallas to this one. But, you know, we will see how it goes. Bob Sturm, you're the best, bobsterm dot substack, the ticket down there in Dallas. Great, great philosophical breakdown with two teams that are maybe regretting a lot of things so far this year. Yeah.

So great to get back together with you, man. Thanks for coming on. Yeah, we got to do this more often, man. Really fun. Thank you.