Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Dane Brugler thinks Bo Nix can go top 10?????

Episode Date: January 30, 2024

Matthew Coller and Manny Hill talk about how The Athletic's Dane Brugler suggested that Bo Nix could rise at the Senior Bowl, even into the top 10. Should the Vikings be in on Nix? Plus a Kirk Cousins rumor about his price and whether the Vikings' NFC Championship losses are worse than what happened to the Lions Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Purple Insider is presented by PrizePix. Go to prizepix.com and use the code PURPLE for a first deposit match up to $100. prizepix.com, code PURPLE. Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar along with Manny Hill here on a Monday evening following championship weekend of which we will definitely get to the Detroit Lions. And I want to begin though, Manny, with Twitter, also known as X to some people, not to me, always will be Twitter, no matter what they name it or what logo I got to click to open it on my phone. Either way. And it's a disaster out there, man. Social media. Oh, man. Every day it's bad. But today it was especially bad because of the complete and utter nonsense involving the Detroit Lions. And I can't get over Dan Campbell, of all people, being attacked for being too analytical when really he was just doing what he always did.

But that's not what stuck out to me on social media. I expected that from kind of the usual suspects of, look, a thing didn't go right that may have been analytical, which again, I didn't really think it was, but I'm going to use this to say what I've wanted to say. I don't know. Maybe these people are still mad about sabermetrics taking over baseball, but an oasis in the desert of complete nonsense was a tweet from Dane Brugler linked to an article about the senior bowl. And it says key senior bowl storylines this week. And we will have a correspondent in Alabama this week.

It says you can bet the bow. Nick's buzz will grow. And in parentheses, maybe into the top 10. Huh? Whoa. Top 10. Dane? Dane Brugler? Top 10 for Bo Nix? Why is it every time I think I came up with something that then everybody else figures it out? I thought I came up with, hey, maybe Bo Nix would be a good idea for the Vikings, just like Anthony Richardson last year. I was like, hey, this guy, and then he ends up going fourth overall. He writes in the

article, Manny, that Michael Penix is all over the map when it comes to analysts, scouts, and what they think of Penix, but that there's a possibility that if Bo Nix has a really good week, that he could be propelled up into the top 10 with so much interest for those top three quarterbacks. Give me your reaction about this new Bo Nix buzz I can't say I'm super surprised because it always feels like they're when when every year in the draft or leading up to the draft there's always like one quarterback that you know somebody falls in love with, tweets it out, writes an article about it, and all of a sudden, the projections of that guy, he's going to skyrocket. And sometimes it happens.

Other times, it's all just smokescreen stuff. And then the guy ends up getting taken in the second round or something like that. We've kind of seen that. We kind of saw it with Will Levis last year, where there was kind of this Will Levis hype train going up and people were thinking, oh, he might get taken in the top five and then he was a second round

pick. So I'm not surprised by it. You and I, I think we kind of share a similar opinion on Bo Nix. We both like him and there's a lot to like in his game with his athleticism. He's got a pretty good arm good leader has all the intangible things that you would want in a young quarterback um

yeah i mean it's it's interesting we'll we'll see how it really uh how it will play out i mean there are teams in the top 10 that are outside of the top five that you might think, hey, that team might take a quarterback. You never know. I mean, you know, somebody like the New York Giants comes to mind. I mean, that's kind of a weird situation that they're in with the Daniel Jones contract. You know, do they want to stick it out another year with him? Who knows?

I think that would be kind of a bad idea because I don't think Daniel Jones is very good. So, I mean mean that's a team that might just say hey you know what let's just try with another guy we know we've got sort of this albatross contract with daniel jones you know we're not picking in the top five we're not going to get one of those top three guys but you know what we want to take another guy and pivot and go in a different direction. Let's just take Bo Nix here. What the hell? So it'll be interesting to see if something like that happens. And, you know, the Vikings are going to have to obviously pay a lot of attention to this because. They might end up being in a situation where they want to take a guy and that guy might not be there and they might have to do some maneuvering, maybe trading up if they really want a guy at a certain spot.

It'll be interesting to see what happens, though. There is too many teams ahead of the Vikings that need quarterbacks. So if Bo Nix walks out of the senior bowl being considered a top 10 draft pick he's going to get taken i mean as you said like the new york giants have a great argument for taking a quarterback developing developing him for a year or just getting rid of daniel jones i mean they might just have to eat that contract or whatever they have to do but i i don't know how you can run daniel jones out there with brian dable is the only option Maybe there's like a quarterback competition or something like that in training camp. Atlanta is another one where, I mean, what's Raheem Morris want to do there?

Does he want to go out and get Kirk Cousins or does he want to draft his own guy and put his own guy in with all those weapons and build it all together over years? Raheem Morris, you could see more of a long-term approach than if it was Bill Belichick and Bill Belichick is 147 years old. And, uh, you know, Mr. Burns there is on his last leg. So he's trying to just pick up, you know, veteran quarterback to win right now. Well, Raheem Morris doesn't have to look at it that way. They could look at it as much more of a complete, uh, type of build Now, I was thinking about Bo Nix as I was watching Brock Purdy for the San Francisco 49ers, because now they're opposite in the fact that Bo Nix is humongous and Brock Purdy is not. And Bo Nix throws the football very hard. Brock Purdy

does not. And there is something similar, though, which is they both can move and they both can make plays well on the move i was looking at this right now that bo nicks only ran for 256 yards this year but last year he ran for 519 yards and 14 touchdowns last season that's pretty good i mean and just watching the playoffs overall, of course, you know, Jared Goff is never going to be a quarterback that moves and he certainly played well enough to win that game. He wasn't a part of a ball bouncing off a guy's face mask or the Jameer Gibbs fumble or any other of the calamities. In fact, it wasn't even maybe the worst drop from Josh Reynolds because after San Francisco tied the game,

he throws a perfect pass on third down to Josh Reynolds and it hits him right in the body and bounces off him. So I thought that, you know, Goff played well enough to have his team in the Super Bowl and isn't a playmaker. But everybody else was. I mean, Lamar Jackson, obviously, and Patrick Mahomes. You don't necessarily need to be Jackson where you have to run for a thousand yards per year, but the playmaking, when things go wrong, being able to find a way, I mean, that long 16 play touchdown drive by the chiefs is Patrick Mahomes scrambles, Patrick Mahomes scrambles. He makes a little bit of a play. And I really liked that about Nick's his game. I've started to sit down and watch Bo nix a lot more considering that

there is this buzz and there's sort of a feeling by some people that michael pennix's uh issues with the health and acls and so forth are going to make him drop and also his lack of playmaking makes me a little more sketchy about picking him i guess i wasn't as concerned because he's got a cannon but as i'm watching brock purdy it's like stuff goes wrong or he doesn't see where he's supposed to go with the football and runs for 20 yards. I kind of want that in my life, Manny. We got it for about this long with Josh Dobbs for like two weeks. We got a little bit of what it's like to have a play breakdown and a guy make a play. So I am extremely curious to see what Bo Nix does this week and what the buzz is that comes out about him, because I'm kind of feeling more and more somebody who can scramble and make plays off schedule.

Yeah, and Bo Nix has had, you know, a really interesting journey in his collegiate career. He started out at Auburn. There were a lot of high expectations for him. Things didn't go quite as well. You know, Auburn made a coaching change. You know, I remember he played in the Outback Bowl back then. It was known as a different name for the bowl game. Now against the Gophers after the 2019 season. And, you know, he showed some signs of being pretty good,

made some mistakes in that game as well. And then they fired Gus Malzahn after that and paid him like $21 million to go away. Auburn did. So Bo Nix kind of went through a coaching change and then just kind of realized Auburn wasn't the right spot for him and then he transferred to Oregon a program that you know has been a little bit more I think progressive

offensively you know in terms of just historically with Chip Kelly and Mark Helfrich and some of those other guys in the past and you know he just fit in with that with that culture up there perfectly and Dan Lanning the head coach out there did a great job and they had a great season this year. They only lost to Washington. They lost to Washington twice. You know, he lost to Michael Penix twice. Otherwise, they really kind of obliterated everybody else. And Bo Nix was was excellent. I mean, he just played really well this year. And so I think I think it shows a lot of character with him, I think, to go through the stuff he went through at Auburn to to have high expectations, things not really work out, change, you know, have a change of scenery and and and find his way and find the right spot for him. And just to show the leadership qualities, I think was, was really impressive. And, you know, I think that's something that I think can carry over into the NFL and he's got

the physical tools. I mean, he can run, he's a good athlete. The arm is there. You know, I think it's just a matter of him getting in the right situation with smart offensive coaches, get them some weapons early on. And, you know, he's an older guy. You know, he's not like 20, 21 years old with no experience. I think, in fact, if I'm not mistaken, he started more games than anybody else in the history of college football. So he's got a lot of experience playing a lot of football over the last four or five years.

And I think that can bode well for him it seems like he can be a guy and you never know with these guys but I think with all the playing experience that he's had he seems like a guy that I won't guarantee this but would I be surprised if he stepped in right away as a rookie and had a lot of success i wouldn't be because he's played a lot of football he's got a good head on his shoulders and you know i think he's got a chance he's got enough physical tools i think to be really successful in the nfl thrown almost 2 000 passes as a college quarterback which is a lot of experience and time to develop for sure uh and you know uh scott in the comment section says bow reminds me of fields he panics often now i can't

really find that in the numbers though that's the thing is he was one of the quickest from snap to release which did involve a lot of passes behind the line of scrimmage but also he graded a 95 by pff when throwing it over 10 yards he was the highest graded quarterback under pressure and was one of the best only next to michael pennix at avoiding sacks and so i also think when we're trying to evaluate a guy can he read defenses sometimes i'll see that i'm like what? The NFL doesn't even know who can read defenses when they scout them, much less you or me sitting there watching his highlights on YouTube. I mean, you really don't ever know whether somebody is going to be able to step in or not. It looks like we've got our weekly Manny head frozen.

Kind of froze with a nice little grin this time, though. Usually he looks at me very skeptically when he freezes, but not this time. So we'll get Manny back in a second. Oh, wait, he's back. There you go. I'm back. You unfroze. Yeah, good for you.

You're good. You're good. So anyway, I think that when you look at the data, he has the strongest numbers of anybody when it comes to the under the radar stuff, how he plays under pressure, how he avoids sacks, the actual yardage, not how college football does the yardage, which is including sacks. That makes no sense to me. But how he pushes the ball down the field. He apparently, according to his Wikipedia page, which is always 100 hundred percent factual on Wikipedia. Uh, he ran a four, five, seven coming out of high school. So, I mean, we're really talking about somebody

that is a great athlete, has a big arm, can scramble, can run, got rid of the ball quickly. And I guess I shouldn't be surprised that now Dane Brugler is talking about the potential of him going quite high and not to mention the man through 45 touchdowns and three picks can we can we like discuss that for a second and with uh you know with joe burrow and i'm not saying he's joe burrow but with joe burrow he had the same issue where the age well has he already you know aged out and plus people talked about well he's got jefferson and jamar chase who turned out to be even better than anybody would have thought they would have been. And okay.

So this is why he's great. Edwards. A layer was a first round pick. He had him in the backfield. And yet, so you could make that argument about Nick's at Oregon. Well, he's got all these weapons. Well, he had a good system. He had a good team.

He had a good line. He had everything else, but we've seen it go all over the place. We've seen quarterbacks like Josh Allen have a terrible team and put up terrible numbers and become a great quarterback. And we've seen guys who had great teams around them also become really good. The bet that I would be making here is really on the arm and athleticism. It would be entirely on the tools. And then I guess the league will try to figure out whether he can read defenses and so forth. So we'll see what happens at the senior bowl. I mean, Manny, I could just, I feel myself just being convinced so easily on quarterbacks, but I am really fascinated to see how this ends up playing out with the senior bowl coming out of it, because obviously the Vikings will be down there. I'm sure Kevin O'Connell is going to be down there to watch the practices, watch the games. And I want to know whether they come out of it thinking we might be able to get our quarterback out of this group. Or, you know, we might want to look at Spencer Rattler in the fourth and look for a development quarterback because there's nothing past Jaden Daniels. I'm really fascinated to see it i am too

and i'm just fascinated at how you know what everybody is going to be feeling about you know michael pennix and bo nicks specifically after the senior bowl um you know the things that i'm kind of looking for with them is just like how how do they handle, you know, situational stuff? You know, the senior bowl is always interesting because it's, it's a collection of, you know, players that haven't really, you know, a lot of these guys may know each other from, you know, being recruited by the same coaches and things like that. But a lot of them haven't really played together on the same team. And so there's always kind of that aspect of it that's working against them. And so I'm always kind of interested to see like how these guys handle those situations of not being really familiar with the guys that they're throwing the ball to, you know, can they

develop a quick chemistry with certain guys and, you know, how they handle, you know, certain situations, third and long situations. They go through their progressions, you know, how they handle, you know, certain situations, third and long situations. They go through their progressions. You know, do they throw with good timing and accuracy and anticipation? All of those things that, you know, the NFL looks for with quarterbacks. You just, those are the things you kind of look for to see if there's signs of that. And I'm just fascinated. It's going to be a lot of fun. I'm going to be glued to it because especially now for the first time in a while,

I'll be really intrigued by watching the quarterbacks in the senior bowl because the team that I follow, the team I've been a fan of, probably going to be the first time in a while that we'll be really paying attention to those guys for a specific reason. So it's going to be fun. I can't wait. I'm really paying attention to those guys for a specific reason so um it's gonna be fun i i can't wait i'm really looking forward to it hopefully it doesn't turn out like

the last time i watched it closely which was malik willis sam howell and kenny pickett in the suit uh in the senior bowl and i just the one thing i'm always a little hesitant about even as dialed in and as excellent at his job as dane brugler, and you can really tell how good he is because everyone plagiarizes his work throughout draft season. Shout out to Benjamin Robinson, a guy who tracks mock drafts, who showed a chart of where if Dane Brugler moves somebody up that the rest of the mocks will follow. It's like, oh, well, I guess we know how this thing works.

So Dane is really dialed into this and he would have a sense for where these guys are coming out. But sometimes with the quarterback, there's so much like, what do they call smoking mirrors and that kind of stuff that in the senior bowl, we came out kind of thinking Malik Willis might be a first round pick. And then it was only Kenny Pickett who ended up in the first round.

So in a way, I really want to see it and see how he reacts, see how he reacts to NFL coaching for a week and how he plays, like you said, with the other players that he's got to try to find quick chemistry with, how he looks against really good players. Because not only is it a good collection, but now in the in the senior bowl coincidentally they can also have juniors now so there's like more talent there than has been before in the senior bowl and we'll definitely be watching that closely for how Bo Nix and Michael Penix react some of you in the comments are talking about a Kirk Cousins contract situation digital planes media says do you think Kirk Cousins contract situation.

Digital Plains Media says, do you think Kirk Cousins contract demands were leaked by the Vikings or the Cousins camp? I do not know what we're talking about here. Anthony says, if Kirk Cousins is really going to be demanding two years, 90 million guaranteed, can go somewhere else. Is there something I missed, Manny? Yeah, so I saw something, I think it was from Charlie Walters, that said he heard that something like Kirk Cousins could demand

two years, $90 million fully guaranteed. And I saw it, and I just kind of chuckled because it's like, he can demand that all he wants but i ain't giving him that and i don't think the vikings would either so that's that's kind of i think what everybody's talking about oh okay interesting well i i guess i would say that his demands don't really matter versus what someone is willing to pay him. And now, so I guess my question always is when something starts circulating around the Internet, gets picked up by aggregators, tweeted out and stuff like that. Is that what he actually wrote or was he speculating? And then somebody picked it up and said,'s what it actually you know here's what

is being reported is that what happened because that does happen yes that's what it kind of seems like it it kind of seemed like it's more speculation than anything else okay i would just suggest that on social media follow actual reporters like Dove Kleiman, whatever the F that is, just cancel that. That's not good. That's a lot of stuff that is a person trying desperately to get attention for themselves. So they will spin stories in totally bogus ways. Find real beat reporters who will tell you the truth. So anyway, well, look, I mean, if that's what he's trying to get, I wouldn't be surprised because he's got the best agent in the world and he's going to aim super

high. But really, the guaranteed money is the key. As Kirk Cousins said, the structure is the key. I imagine he's going to want a no trade clause from whoever he is asking to sign him. And Derek Carr got 60 million guaranteed. That would be much closer to what Kirk Cousins would be looking for. But since he said it's what the money represents, then my guess would be that means don't pay me the same average annual value as Derek Carr or less because I'm better than Derek Carr and I'm better than Daniel Jones.

And I looked at this today, Manny, and there are 12 quarterbacks who are making more than 40 or 40 or up. And Jared Goff is going to get an extension, absolutely guaranteed to be 45 plus. So that would make basically half the league's reasonable starters because there's other people who are on rookie contracts that couldn't be in this ballpark so anyone who is a reasonable starter or up is making at least 40 if you're kirk you can't ask for less than 40 so even charlie walter wait yeah charlie walter right okay yeah even even char even even charlie's uh speculation now all guaranteed i don't know. But that would be more than he signed originally for, guaranteed. That would be pretty wild.

But his speculation of 45 mil is not out of this world. I mean, that's probably the starting point when you look at other quarterbacks. And Derek Carr signed his deal coming off of his worst season. And Kirk is going to look at that and go, I'm actually coming off a season where I was playing really, really well. He was, I think,

sixth by PFF. And one thing to Kirk's credit that if magic Mike McCartney wants to use, he can, he had the most drops in the NFL through week eight. Surprisingly that he also had, you know, a lot of receivers dropping the ball, receivers fumbling the ball and stuff like that. I mean, Kirk's got a pretty good argument to make

for being somewhere in the range of 45 million. And maybe, maybe this is a little bit for some people who thought like, oh, he'll, and again, if it's speculation and not reporting, then, you know, I'm not going with that number to say this, but if that is where he isn't in the, in the range for his starting point of negotiations, when they go to the combine and so forth and the legal tampering period, then, uh, there's just absolutely no way. There's just absolutely no universe where the Vikings can do that. Right? No, not at all. And they shouldn't even, like, they shouldn't even ponder it. Like, it's just, it's not even, it's a non-starter for me.

Like, if I'm even in the camp of wanting to bring Kirk Cousins back, which, you know, I'm not in that camp, but if I was considering bringing him back, I'm not bringing him back at that number. Not at age 36 coming off in Achilles when there are other, you know, huge holes and needs on this roster in order to even compete in 2024. There's just no way. It's an absolute non-starter.

You know, all due respect to Kirk, I'm just not doing that. It just makes no sense to go to bring him back at that number at all. Folks, Lucy is upping the nicotine pouch game with breakers pouches, packing a little something extra inside. What are Lucy breakers? If you know your pouches, then you know that the nicotine doesn't hit immediately and neither does the flavor, but the geniuses at Lucy came up with a brilliant way to fix both of those problems. They put a mini liquid capsule inside each Breaker's pouch. So here's what you do. You get the Breaker's pouch, break it with your teeth, and it makes a satisfying pop.

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every order is age verified warning this product contains nicotine and nicotine is an addictive chemical. I don't even know what dollar figure would make sense for this team considering the rest of their needs. And even if someone is making 30 mil and then you're adding just Jefferson making 30 mil and needing to go into free agency and sign a bunch of people, even 15 million less than shooters speculation still makes me go i don't think so and that's not where kirk's going to be

so hey if he gets that man good for him good for him business hall of fame good job but i i got i got nothing for that uh for this team so yeah, this is one of the things that comes up with Bo Nix that I don't understand. Jason says, Bo Nix can't read progressions. Oregon was screens and throw to the first guy, never even looked to the second, third, or fourth guy. I mean, I just don't understand, A, how we could really watch on TV and know this, what the progression was supposed to be. I just told you

as far as him throwing down the field, and I can even screen share if everybody wants to see this number. Let's see. Let me find it. Let me find it. I'll find it. I'll find this and I'll screen share with everybody just to show you that I have empirical evidence of what we're looking at. Hold on. Everybody just quietly wait. And I will call this up like rolling in the projector as a kid. They still do that. All right. Now it looks a little wonky here, but I'm going to fix it. Hold on. All right. So let me clear out our little thing here and everybody can see it okay so if you look close everyone at the top is deep throws over 20 yards where he completed 51 and graded a 95 by pff had 119 quarterback rating when he was throwing over 20 yards when he was throwing over 10 yards, he had a 95 PFF grade, 16 touchdowns, one pick, and

145 quarterback rating. And these are adjusted to the NFL. So even when he was holding the ball, if you could see my mouse, for 2.6 or three seconds, which would probably involve some progressions, he was still putting up wild numbers. Now, you're right to say like 27% of his passes being screens. That is a lot. So they were throwing screens for sure. You're not wrong about that.

But I mean, when we're talking about throwing down the field, he did it very accurately. So I don't know about, I don't know. I don't know about that. I also know this. I'll get this right in a second. I also, know about that. I also know this. I'll get this right in a second. There we go. I also know this.

Nobody in college football can read nothing in the NFL. That's what I also know. That's the reality, Manny, of college to the NFL is that there are not guys who are going to go out there and identify Steve Spagnuolo's defense who are playing in college right now that's why quarterbacks who sit for a year and learn the NFL that's why we like them so much because it is so hard to drop right in and do all of that and understand all that and make all the checks and all the changes everything else this is actually what the Vikings are afraid of I think is that it's so darn difficult to read defenses as a rookie that kevin o'connell might feel like he has to dial back his offense which i'm not so sure that he wants to do yeah and you know let's let's just let's just keep it real here let's keep it a buck like we don't it a buck. Like we don't, it's, there is no exact science

to predicting how these guys are going to translate to the NFL. A lot of times what you're looking for with these quarterbacks is you're looking at the physical tools that they have and you are kind of rolling a dice, rolling a dice on them coming to your team, fitting into your system, molding them, developing them, and them turning out to be great. I mean, we've been talking about this for weeks now with all the quarterbacks in the league right now that are the best in the business, that are elite. Mahomes, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson. There were question marks about all of those guys.

And people were just picking those guys apart. And there was the thought of Patrick Mahomes that, oh, his footwork is bad. And he's throwing off of his back foot. And he's just kind of flicking the ball. And he's not playing in an NFL offense and all this other stuff. And now he's arguably the greatest quarterback of all time. Why? Because he got drafted by the Kansas city chiefs.

He sat for a year developed, you know, Andy Reed developed his tools and, you know, got him more fundamentally sound. And now he's, he's the greatest quarterback in this league. Josh Allen was inaccurate. He was on a group of five school in Wyoming, and the numbers weren't great. And even when he got into the league and started out, it was not good. There were a lot of question marks about, you know,

did the Bills make the right decision of drafting this guy? And now he's one of the elite quarterbacks in this league. So it's I don't know if there's really an exact science of looking at what these guys do in college and predicting that guy is going to be the greatest quarterback of all time because you just don't know. What you do is you look at the physical tools, you look at Bo Nix and you say he's a good athlete, got a really good arm, seems to be a pretty good leader, won a lot of games. Let's take a chance and put him in our system,

see how it goes, and see if we can turn him into a star. That's what you just kind of hope for. And there's just no real perfect way of predicting how that's going to play out for any of these guys to be honest i think that like maybe some of the criticism is the throwing isn't always precise or always throwing to open receivers or i'm not see i'm not really sure because when i look at the numbers

i kind of wonder what what is it that's the downside of him. And I guess I'll find this out as I listened to Daniel Jeremiah for three straight days, watching NFL network with these senior bowl practices and combine and all that stuff going forward and read a little bit more of what everyone says about him. But I'm looking at a guy who is really big, really fast and throws the ball hard and has amazing numbers. And I'm like, I mean, yes, he was older. That is absolutely true. But I don't think that that means that you can't develop. We're talking about quarterbacks, even in the NFL who have to develop from age 24 to 27. I know Lamar Jackson did not have a good game on Sunday,

but although I wish Zay Flowers maybe had just taken it down at the one and then maybe Lamar's stats look a little better. But, you know, Lamar has really developed as being in complete command of the pocket. And that's something that this year we saw take off and why he was going to win another MVP as opposed to kind of just using his amazing physical traits to get people open scrambling and so forth and just making good throws downfield now he was like really in control of the offense I think Mahomes has gotten even

better at doing all that which is what makes him unstoppable right so I'm not sure that you can't develop as a quarterback from age 24 to 27 28 yeah. Yeah, well, I'm glad you brought up Patrick Mahomes again because I remember this was, he went on the LeBron James, the shop HBO show at that time. This was shortly after they won the Super Bowl against San Francisco four years ago. And he was talking about how he said something like, I don't have the exact quote, but he said something like,

I just learned how to read defenses this year. He had already, he had just won the Super Bowl, had an MVP under his belt, and had been in the NFL for three years. And he's talking about how he had just learned how to read defenses. So like, that right there is proof that none of these guys are perfect prospects coming out.

And depending on where they go, depending on if they have some good weapons around them and a good infrastructure around them, is really what determines how good these guys are. Now, yeah, there are certain guys that were probably going to be bad no matter what. Zach Wilson might be a guy that no matter who took him, he was probably going to be bad no matter what. Zach Wilson might be a guy that no matter who took him, he was probably going to be bad. And when you look back at some of the stuff with Zach Wilson at BYU, I know you brought up the fact that he wasn't a team captain. You know, that might kind of explain like why, yeah, it's probably never really going to work out for Zach Wilson.

But that was something that people kind of overlooked. Sometimes it's just like the little things that we don't really think about that ultimately determine how good these guys are. But otherwise, it's just a crapshoot. And you just hope that the guy that you take works out and you do all the right things, you draft well, you assign good guys in free agency, you build a good roster, and then that's ultimately how you have success long-term.

Yeah, with the age thing, I could see where you could look at it from two perspectives. Maybe if you're 21 years old, there's the idea that you have so much more to grow from what you are. And I fully understand that. If you're 24, though, are you more capable? I also know that Bo Nix is married. He's kind of like a real boy.

He's like a grown up. You know, like, does it help you? And I know this worked in Jaron Hall's favor, which I know he didn't play well in his game, but I thought that he adapted to NFL environment really, really well this year. And that's why they wanted to give him a chance. He was older than Bo Nix by maybe a year, year and a half or something. But when Jaron Hall came in, he acted like an NFL player pretty much from the jump. And that's what you'd be looking for, for Bo Nix. We're not talking about somebody who's 26. We're not talking about the Hendon Hooker jokes.

It's going to turn 24. I guess I would be pretty comfortable with that. SDEvo says Nix's ceiling might be limited, but his floor is really high in the right system. Right tools around him. He could be super successful, i.e. Goff, who is very good, but not elite or anything. The Goff part. I mean, I understand what you're saying he's not josh allen or he's not uh you know patrick mahomes but i i i keep betting on jared golf and

i was this close to having it work again like i bet on jared golf like this is this is a guy i'm gonna get behind early on uh because i felt like he was being talked about as just a system quarterback or whatever when he was with McVay. And then he went to the Super Bowl. And then I was this close to having him catch a pass in the end zone to beat the Patriots. And he overthrew it by a bit. And then the same thing happens with the Lions game there, which we'll get to some of that. But Nix is just an interesting prospect because I think people are very skeptical of him because of what they saw early in his career. And when we go back to what he did early in his career, I still got the

PFF page up here. He really was not good until he got to Oregon. And so I guess maybe the question might be, was that a product of just going to a different system in Oregon or was it his development? And I don't know how to answer that question uh first I didn't cover Bonick so we'll try to get somebody on the show at some point who did but and I haven't watched every game of his I've just been starting to go through a couple of those YouTubes that have like every play good or bad not just highlight reels and I do see enough running play playmaking, throwing the ball hard. I mean, I don't know.

Like, you're starting to see the tools come together. And it's got me quite intrigued. But, you know, this age thing, I just don't really know. I mean, you could show your age and talk about how Jim Kelly and Warren Moon had to go through the USFL. And then they showed up in the NFL after a couple years of development or something but that definitely makes me feel way too old uh Hamza says there is no way the Vikings could trade back and still get Knicks right I've been really high on Bo I think he could be great with KOC yeah that's the other thing Manny is uh with the Vikings you do throw a lot of passes to open wide receivers that is is just a fact. So if that's like a criticism,

well, that's, you know, that's, that's what Nick Mullins was doing as well. But I have no idea. This is why it's in the headline because Dane Brugler saying this really took me by surprise. It's like, oh, well, you know, mock draft database has Bo Nix sitting at like 25. So I would have said last night, Hey, it kind of looks like it, but now, now I'm going, wait a minute. Is the NFL about to get really high on Bo Nix? I really have no idea. Yeah, I don't either. I mean, like, like we were saying before, like we just, sometimes these guys, they, they skyrocket up, you know, a few draft boards and, you know, we all think that, okay, this guy's's gonna get picked in the top 10 and then end up falling out of the first round completely it's just really it's hard to really figure out

it's hard to predict you know i think ultimately in the case of the vikings i think what you're just hoping for is they take a guy and then it's the right guy and then it just works you know what i mean and i think with what they have set up, I know what the Vikings have right now is not perfect. And certainly, you know, there are fair criticisms of Kevin O'Connell, I think, overall. But, you know, when you look at what they have,

you've got the best wide receiver in football. You've got a really good young wide receiver who had a really nice rookie season. You have one of the best tight ends in football. You've got a really good young wide receiver who had a really nice rookie season. You have one of the best tight ends in the league. Now he's coming off a pretty substantial injury, but if everything works out well for TJ Hawkinson, he's one of the best tight ends in the league. You've got an offensive line that is not perfect,

but you've got two really good, when they're healthy, tackles that are really going to do a good job of protecting you. You've got some pieces in place to where you can envision a young quarterback stepping in and having some success early on. And maybe you take a guy and he sits for a year. Even better. I mean, it just ultimately what it comes down to is you just have to take a guy and you just have to make it work. You have to find a way for it to work. And if it doesn't, those guys are going to be out of a job and you're going to have a new coach and probably

taking a new quarterback a few years from now. So I think you just have to take a swing and just hope for the best. Jared says anything can work. Can is a loose word. I can become president. Can you, Jared? I see that's actually a great example because everything is about odds. Everything we talk about is about odds. So when we talk about Bo Nix, it's about odds. So we're going to look at his numbers and look at his background and look at how he performed. And then we're going to look at what the scouting community and the draft people and whatever think of him and then try to figure out what the odds are that he could be a really good quarterback for the Vikings that could take him somewhere. Now, what are the actual odds? If I had to just throw out a number, I'd probably say three or four out of 10 times a quarterback that you draft 11th overall becomes something.

And one out of every 20 times he becomes Mahomes or, or maybe not quite to that level, but you know, like a superstar quarterback, uh, Alan is taken, I think at eight or seven and Mahomes is right there in that same range. So every once in a while, that guy becomes a superstar. And then the other guys don't become guys that you draft on a second or that you sign on a second contract and so forth. Now, what are the odds that Kirk Cousins at age 36 can take you to the NFC Championship?

So far, he's never been there. He has never won a home playoff game in his entire career. And it's not entirely about Kirk, but the teams as well. And what are the odds that he's going to get better than he was? What are the odds that you can build a team around him when you've never been able to do this? The odds are not very high, right? So what I take, what I take the two and 10, three and 10 chance that Bo Nix is great and maybe coin flip chance that he's good enough to allow you to build a team versus zero in 10, which we've seen out of 10 years of Kirk Cousins starting in the NFL. And he's never taken a team there. Yeah. I mean, I think that's the odds are quite a bit better, actually. Is there a guarantee for anything? Of course not.

But that's how I think you have to look at this, is how do all these factors about someone like Bo Nix weigh the odds? Anthony says it doesn't matter what the knocks are in any of these QBs coming out of the draft. That's what coaching is about. KOC needs to be confident that he could scheme up the right recipe for any of them. Kevin O'Connell, man, he is really a wild card here, isn't he? 100%. 100%.

And, you know, we have kind of speculated about, you know, the type of quarterback that he might want. But the reality is we don't really even know either i mean we think he wants a guy that's a big guy with a big arm that's going to push the ball down the field but you know he's had matthew stafford with the rams he had kirk cousins in washington he's had kirk cousins here so it's the the sort of the big pocket-passing quarterback that throws the ball down the field has kind of been all he's had. But he's never handpicked. Kevin O'Connell's never handpicked a young quarterback.

He hasn't done it yet. We don't know if he can do it or if he can't do it. I want to see him try. That's been my whole viewpoint on all of this since the season ended has been i want to see him try i want to see kevin o'connell get an opportunity to look at a certain quarterback and say that's the guy i like him let's take him and i'm gonna grow and mold him into being our quarterback that i just want to see if i want to see if he can do it you know and I want to find that out so I I don't I don't know man I I just it's just something that we we don't

really know for sure we we don't know for sure if he can grow and develop a young quarterback we don't know that he can't do it either so let's just give it a shot i just want to see it i thought this was why you hired him wasn't it right yeah i mean look here's the thing so we got a big fight about harbaugh the other day because i was never for harbaugh and then you know of course now they got a gm from the ravens who's probably going to stack up that roster. Harbaugh is going to win. Then a hundred of you are going to come back in the comment section to be like, we told you. But that's fine.

You can do that if that works out. But the thing about my main argument against Harbaugh, aside from the absolute circus that comes along with Harbaugh, was the idea that you're taking a long view of this thing, which is hire the former quarterback who's been in the game, not out of the game for 10 years, and give the guy who looks to me like the quarterback, I don't want to say whisperer, but developer, former quarterback recently with the McVay system recently, have him get in the ear of a rookie quarterback, develop them, pair those two together,

and go forward and hope you end up with a John Harbaugh and Lamar Jackson or Andy Reid and Patrick Mahomes type relationship that lasts for a really long time. Like that's the ideal world to live in. If you were just all in on trying to win right the freak now, no matter what happens, then I would have been okay with Harbaugh if that was the goal then i would have been like all right well look burn tco

performance center to the ground with jim harbaugh by any means to try to win go ahead but that wasn't their goal that wasn't the approach they've taken so why would you deviate away from that now i mean that's that's how i look at it right yeah well and let's let's let's go back to when jim harbaugh was hired by the 49ers in 2011 the 49ers were a team that had been they it was it's almost in a lot of ways it was very similar to what sean McVay stepped into with the Rams in 2017. It was a team that they had drafted a lot of talent in the previous handful of years. They had really kind of built up a roster, but they were just simply poorly coached and they needed a guy that could step in right away. It was a team that was ready to take that next step.

And into contention. And Harbaugh did that with the 49ers. That team was built really well and ready to go. It was just, they were coached by Mike Nolan and then Mike Singletary. Like, that's why Harbaugh was hired because it was a team that was already constructed and ready to go.

Same thing with the Rams with McVay. I mean, that was a team that was already constructed and ready to go. Same thing with the Rams with McVay. I mean, that was a team that was really well put together. They had drafted a lot of young talent in the previous years, but they were coached by Jeff Fisher and they weren't going anywhere. So you just brought in another guy that was able to take them to that next level. The Vikings weren't really in that spot in 2022. You know, they were kind of in a different position. They were, you know, kind of transitioning from, you know, a previous era with Mike Zimmer, with a lot of older players, a team that had kind of gone over the hump, so to speak, of, you know, contention and just didn't really have a lot left.

And, you know, it just wasn't the right type of situation. Now, how would 2022 have gone if Harbaugh were coaching? You know, might've been about the same, same results. You know, you probably would have won 12 or 13 games, won a weak division, but what would you have done in the playoffs? I don't, I don't know if there would have been a lot really there when you consider how things kind of played out. So I think the right decision was made.

And if Jim Harbaugh wins three Super Bowls with Justin Herbert and the Chargers, then okay, I guess maybe we're wrong. Maybe we were wrong about it. But the Chargers just seem like a team that's kind of in the same spot that the 49ers were in, you know, 13 years ago where there's a lot of talent. It's a team that with a young quarterback that's kind of maybe ready to take the next step

and weren't quite there yet because they weren't as well coached as they should have been. And you just kind of see what happens there with Harbaugh going forward. Folks, if you've been listening to the show, then you know how much fun we have been having with prize picks this year. Just go to prizepicks.com slash purple. Use the code purple for a first deposit match up to $100. And let me tell you how it works. If you haven't heard us talk about it enough yet, or you haven't tried it yet, very simple. There are yardage totals on prize picks.

You either pick more or less and boom. Each week has been a roller coaster ride of fun. And the best part is that when I have a bad week, I didn't lose much. It doesn't cost much to play. You can turn $10 into $250 very easily. And if things go sideways for you, you're not out a whole heck of a lot of money. That is prizepicks.com slash purple. Just more or less on yardage totals. And you are in prizepicks.com slash purple. The code purple for a first deposit match up to one hundred dollars uh and you go back to san francisco i guess uh harbaugh did put a rookie quarterback in

after they drafted a quarterback despite having a limited veteran quarterback who had kind of proven what his ceiling was interesting stuff uh actually Actually, they even went somewhere with Alex Smith and still made a change to get to the next level. But I think in the position they were in, they probably would have kept Delvin Cook. They would have kept Adam Thielen. They would have kept Eric Hendricks. The direction has all pointed toward this draft for quarterbacks. And you actually have real prospects here. And a groovy skeptic asked, how does McCarthy's arm stack up? He clearly has legs. I think McCarthy has a really great arm.

That's the comparison with him and Nick's because he's 21. And so there's the ceiling, like, is he going to be able to develop and get better and, you know, kind of hone his skills. And that's maybe one of the reasons why they limited him for how often they had him throw the ball was that he's a little bit wild with the football but he throws it really hard it's just that he's a little bit out of uh control sometimes

with his accuracy and so you'd have to develop and develop he hasn't thrown a lot of passes in comparison to Bo Nix. But, you know, I haven't been very much sold on McCarthy exactly. But if they did it, I'd say, all right. Because I think, like you were saying, Manny, if the NFL evaluates... Sorry, sometimes the comments just make me laugh mid-thought., uh, it's, um, it's one of my largest challenges in life actually is not laughing. Sometimes you guys say something funny that time I did, uh, I'll just put it up on the screen now. I can't hold back on this. Uh, uh,

dystopian utopia said, uh, you miss 100% of the shots. You don't take Wayne Gretzky, Michael Scott. That's a great, great reference. Great reference. Well done. But if they draft McCarthy and even though I'm not as big on him as I am becoming on Bo Nix, that's all right. Good. If they've evaluated him as having a first round arm and they want to play Gardner Minshew for a year and develop JJ McCarthy and have him ready to go, that sounds like a great plan. Do that. That'd be totally fine. I don't know.

Whatever way they go about it, there's about five different ways where I'd be like, okay, like if bring in Baker Mayfield, like we talked about the other day, draft a guy, if it's McCarthy, have him develop and so forth.

And we'll go from there, trade up for Jaden Daniels. Maybe that's your move. All right. Like there's a lot of paths where I'd be like, all right, let's go. And picking Bo Nix at 11. One of the major benefits though, Manny, about picking Bo Nix at 11, if Dane Brugler is not right and he doesn't emerge as a top 10 quarterback, is that you only use your own pick and it

doesn't have to destroy your future. That is a really nice benefit of taking someone with your own selection is that you didn't trade your entire future drafts to do it. Yeah, it just gives them more options, right? It gives you more opportunities to, you know, get even add even more talent. You know, if you're, if you're in a position, I mean, look, if you want to move up and get jayden daniels we talked about this the other day if that's the guy you want and you feel like you can move up and get him go ahead and do that you know what i mean um but there is something

to be said for like you said keeping your own pick and having more opportunities to draft, to draft even more talent. You know, the Vikings, you know, because of the way of the 2022 draft kind of unfolded, it's kind of tough to see how much they're going to get out of that, out of that draft class. You know, you're, you're going to have to start hitting on some draft picks. That is going to be a thing that, you know,

when you look at what has happened with the lions and how they've got to this point of being on the doorstep of going to the freaking super bowl, you know, they've done that with having higher draft picks and, and hitting on those draft picks. So, you know, you're, you're kind of the, that's the risk that you play when you do move up. Um, but on the flip side, if you do move up and you take Jaden Daniels and he's all world and becomes one of the elite quarterbacks in the league, that's going to be pretty good, too. Because that's going to mean that you're going to be in contention every single year. Because when you look around the NFL, the elite quarterbacks are

in the playoffs every year and they're in the Super Bowl conversation every year. I mean, I know everybody's going to have some fun at Lamar Jackson's expense this offseason because of what happened yesterday, but that dude's going to be on the doorstep of the Super Bowl. If he's healthy every year, the Ravens are going to be on the doorstep of the Super Bowl every year because of how great he is. And sign me up for that. You know what I mean? As opposed to where the Vikings have been for the last, you know, four or five years. Well, you'll appreciate my reference from yesterday with Lamar Jackson.

He's Charles Barkley or he's Reggie Miller, guys who belonged in the NBA finals. But Michael Jordan just gave him the Mutombo finger finger wag. No, no, no. You will not be going to the NBA finals. That's how it is for my homes that he personally has shaped narratives for other great quarterbacks. But you know what? If the Vikings stumbled into a quarterback as good as Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson, I just take my chances that uh the next malm shows up and ruins it all for everyone uh yotters painting i assume it's yeah it might be yoters i know a guy named yotter so i he pronounces it

that way anyway uh who's uh uh who's the quarterback that you like the most in the draft regardless of draft position this is a this is a weird take manny um i like drake may the best but i think i would draft caleb williams is that weird like i think like drake may drake may is so large and just throws such a beautiful football he kind of reminds me of cj stroud recency bias of course but the way that the ball just travels through the air and with such ease and the guy is such great size and he's an athlete, he's a playmaker, everything is there. But with Caleb Williams, when you see the high end of Caleb Williams, and we were just talking about all that stuff with reading defenses, whatever else, there's been a million quarterbacks. So they said, couldn't including a recent guy from Oregon in Justin Herbert, go read his scouting reports that said, well, you know, he's not very good at this or that,

or the other thing. And he's turned, I would take him as well. Maybe he just, you know, needed a better coach, but that's kind of how I feel about this is even if I personally watching both quarterbacks and kind of like, man, I kind of lean Drake may a little bit. I don't know how you could watch the high end and the physical ability of Caleb Williams and not take him because this guy can do just about anything. He has the arm strength to throw from angles. You never believe you shouldn't trust what you see on college tape all the time, as much as you trust their arm their speed all that that sort of stuff and josh allen and even jordan love is a good example like jordan love in college was kind

of bad at utah state threw a ton of picks like he made crazy throws inaccurate throws but what did you see from time to time the crazy high end of jordan love and he developed it to be a superstar and i know people do not like when I say that on the show but let's just we gotta be honest with ourselves the dude was second in the league in touchdowns this year and did what he did uh in the playoffs and made a farvian throw at the end but that that's I don't know do you like do you like Caleb Williams more or how are you feeling about that I do I do like the raw just like the raw ability of caleb williams and you know this usc did not have a good year and you know it i know at times it

looked like he may have took a step back but this guy you go back and look at his 2022 season the year he won the heisman trophyrophy, and he was just amazing. He made every throw. He made every play necessary. I think, you know, USC in 2023, I think the team around him just wasn't as good, and I think he kind of wore a little bit more on his shoulders than what he needed to, you know,

than what he did the previous year, and I think at times he was just, seemed like he was just trying to do too much, trying to extend a play a little bit too long. And I think we kind of saw a lot of that, especially against Notre Dame, where he really did not play well at all, just felt like he was doing way too much. And I think it kind of affected him. The team just wasn't as good. And the defense was just an abomination. That UFC defense in 2023 was awful. And so when you just, I think when you have that pressure, when you know, like, my defense is bad,

I got to go down and score a touchdown every single possession. You just try to do too much. And I think that kind of led to some of the bad plays that he made um during the season but but again it's it's i i think you're like we said before we're looking for the physical tools and what those guys can do with their arm with their athleticism can they extend plays things like that and then you insert them into what you're trying to do and you mold them and develop them now maybe caleb williams is a guy that might need to sit for a year more so than a drake may or jayden daniels or something like that but

i think you have to like the physical tools and you have to just somebody's going to take a chance on him and you know you just hope it's the right team and that they've got the right infrastructure and eventually he turns into a stud there's a lot of there's a lot to like about him i guess if you're the vikings you're hoping that doesn't happen because it will happen in chicago probably uh i'll be i'd be really curious to know what they're saying in their front office with the same exact discussion. I think that the evaluation is really close, and I have been chatting with different people who know enough to know a little bit about this

conversation. That's the best I could do for you. And there are some people who believe that Drake May should be the top overall pick, but I keep coming back to some of the things that Caleb Williams is able to do off platform. His running ability is downright prolific at times. Uh, the, I mean, you can have him completely bottled up and he can escape for a first down. He can throw the ball running to his left or right 50, 60 yards down the field. I mean, there's just so much he could do. What I wonder about with Caleb Williams is pressure. And I was thinking about pressure in Lamar Jackson and pressure in Baltimore and how I think Baltimore in a lot of ways felt the pressure and Dallas, this happens to them

all the time and they just freak out. I think Caleb Williams freaked out a little bit this year, that when you have that pressure of being called a generational talent, you're on the same level as Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck, which I wouldn't put on anybody, by the way. I don't know if anybody will ever again be the type of prospect that Peyton Manning was. Andrew Luck was definitely up there, but you're a Tennessee fan. You know what that was like with Peyton Manningning i don't think that that was that level with caleb

williams but when you're being compared to those guys as a prospect that there is so much on you to win every single game and then it kind of broke him at times which may ultimately be good or bad for him i have no idea because i saw that when after he had some losses and thought buddy it's only going to get harder from here it doesn't get easier at the same time he's growing up dealing with this right in front of us so maybe him kind of breaking under the pressure is a learning experience that he takes to the NFL and is better for ultimately, I really don't know, uh, with Caleb Williams. I don't buy some of the stuff that he's like, um, you know, a diva or whatever else. And I'm not sure that was really it. I think that more, well, he had that thing leaked about wanting a piece of the team,

which you can't even do according to the CBA. So that didn't help his case either, but it's a, it's a fascinating decision. And I think I like may ever so slightly better, but would probably end up taking Caleb Williams. So we've spent this entire time on the quarterbacks, which of course is going to be a lot of discussion going forward. I wanted to ask you one thing before we wrapped up, which was supposed to take up a much larger chunk of the show that happens to us sometimes when the chat gets going and i've loved the enthusiasm of the chat uh today throughout the show uh the meltdown by the lions i let's just do this manny 1998 2009 2017 we know what those years mean in viking history you could throw in 87 if you want

2000 as well 2000 is more well 2000 i guess falls under the category of uh like 2017 yeah but the fact that 2017 came off of the minneapolis miracle i think made it so much worse but take take just the the shocking meltdowns the disasters the drop from darren nelson gary anderson brett farve throwing across his body how would you compare those to what happened to the lions like if that had happened to the vikings where would you rank it in all-time viking lore like would that be the worst one or is that not the worst one i don't think it would be the worst one it may you know lions fans might feel a little bit different because it's the first time the lions have done anything of this magnitude in 32 years um since i was in the second grade, I still go back to 98 because it was, I mean, guys had their bags packed for Miami.

There was a song on the radio, you know, that was sort of a foregone conclusion that the vikings were going to go to the super bowl and nobody was stopping them nobody was stopping that offense um they were at home they were i can't remember what the line was but they were pretty heavy favorites against the falcons and it was like the the falcons chris ch, like whatever, like who is Chris Chandler? Like, you know, he's been a journeyman guy that had played for like the Rams and the Cardinals and just was just a has no effect on the Falcons whatsoever. And they just came in and they made plays and, you know, they got it done. They got it done when the Vikings couldn't. That, to me, is still the one that kind of sticks out because there was just – I remember being a freshman in high school that year and the thought of the Vikings losing that game was just, I remember being a freshman in high school that year,

and the thought of the Vikings losing that game was just like, there was no thought of the Vikings losing that game. It was a foregone conclusion they were going to win that game. It was unimaginable. So that's the one that still, I mean, if we're comparing it between that and the Lions, I think that's the one that really still kind I mean, if we're comparing it between that and the lions, I think that's the one that's really still kind of stands out to me as a bigger one.

Now lions fans might feel differently because it's first time in a while for them. And they were up by 17 at the half and they were dominating that game. And maybe they just felt like it was in the bag at that point. But for me, 98 to me is still kind of a bigger thing because they're just the the idea of the vikings even losing that game was just not even was non-existent we're uh really speaking detroit's language here uh or i'm or actually sorry put it the other way

around detroit is now speaking our language when it comes to these NFC championship meltdowns. I would say that 1998 is almost untouchable, even in NFL history, aside from Norwood missing the field goal to lose the Super Bowl. That to me is the all time, but it's right there considering the quality of that team. The 1998 Vikings outscored every team in the nfl this year that's how good their offense was we talk about offense dominates the game and everything else they outscored every team in the nfl in 2023 uh that's how dominant they were and to be so close see the thing about the lions is they could have converted that fourth down

fumbled the next play missed the field goal after that score you scored a field goal and then still lost the game it was midway through the third quarter and that's one of the crazy parts about how it was being debated with the analytics and everything else. They should have just gotten a stop on defense as opposed to giving up a 50 yard pass, regardless of how it happened. That was the main issue there is that their defense had been playing so well throughout the game and then had a collapse, but it was midway through the third quarter. That's going to be the one that everyone remembers, but you know,

that going for that fourth down and having Josh Reynolds drop it and everything else, but Josh Reynolds catching it doesn't guarantee that they even win the game. We were talking about the best offensive football in the 49ers that they could put up points in a hurry against just about anyone. So for it to play out the way it did and all the crazy events to come after that was pretty nuts, but I think it's harder to be one kick away from the best kicker in the league that year, from an all-time great Hall of Fame kicker. All he's got to do is chip it in,

and you win, and you go to the Super Bowl, and you could very well win it. I know Denver was extremely good, but you could very well win that Super Bowl. To be that close is much different. There was a lot of game to still play with Detroit. And then I think 09 is hard for the same reason. If Brett Favre takes off, if he checks it to Bernard Berry, and we're talking about Ryan Longwell again, you know, not that you can

guarantee kickers or anything, but Ryan Longwell was a very, very good kicker. You're probably talking about going to the Super bowl at that point i think in 09 it's hard to say that they would have won the super bowl because of the shape that brett was in 87 for for the olds and at least we get to call some people older than us manny uh 87 was the super bowl they probably would have won though that's the thing is that that that denver team was mediocre they got crushed by washington and you're one reception away from it happening. And that one might be a little more comparable to what happened to the Lions, but the fact that they were right there as far as to beat the Broncos,

like their opponent in 87 was not as good as the opponents that they would have faced in 98 and 2009. Not a guaranteed Super Bowl, nothing guaranteed for the Vikings, but that should have maybe been the one. But yeah, welcome, Lions. Welcome. It's been a really long time, but you're here. So now one last thing, Manny, and I know we've gone longer than usual, but we've had a lot of fun here.

And we've only got two weeks left of the season. Dan Campbell said after, a very dark Dan Campbell said, this might have been our only shot. And certainly Vikings fans know what that's like. They thought 2010 they were going back. They thought 2018 they were going back. I understand what he's saying, and Dan is a realist. He understands how hard it is to get to the NFCc championship i don't think detroit's going anywhere though this quarterback has been there

a number of times this roster is super young they might not get to the super bowl but they're going to be at the top of the nfc north save for whatever you know calamity your quarterback hurts his achilles or something you know but i i don't see them going anywhere i don't either they they're young they seem to have their quarterback jared goff is very good um the other thing too collars they got cap space they're gonna have money to spend this offseason so like even we talked about some of the shortcomings they have on defense, like in the secondary and everything. They can go out and spend some money and boost up that defense if they want to.

You know, and they've shown signs in these last couple of years of drafting very well, too. So, I think they're going to be i you know i sometimes i wonder if dan campbell was just kind of just reacting because it's just your moments removed from you know very heartbreaking loss um and your season being over and you just kind of wonder if he's just reacting in the moment of just like this hurts right now and just it's all kind of doom and gloom. But I think with what he's done with that team and leading them and with the position that they're in right now, that's going to be a scary team. I don't think they're going away anytime soon. soon and you know the the rest of the nfc north and the rest of the nfc i think has you know

considering how close they got last night um to getting to the super bowl i think the rest of the nfc is on notice that the detroit lions are not a joke anymore they are not a punch line they are a serious football team and they are not disappearing anytime soon if anything we were talking about hardball's teams in san francisco kind of feels the same way where they had huge drafts for a few years or the new orleans saints that had that one huge draft with ram check and latimore and camara i think that was right and they had picked michael thomas it's come up that the vikings maybe could have selected him uh from time to time.

Good for Louis Seane, though, for taking that crown, because it used to be that was the one that always came up. Well, did you know the Vikings could have drafted Michael Thomas? Anyway, yeah, I think this Lions team is in a position to add players. And look, the way that those guys talk about Dan Campbell, I think free agents are going to want to go there. I think they're going to want to play for him in that culture and in a team that feels like it's close. So the Vikings have to get their offseason right

and their decision right, which is Draft Bo Nix. Maybe. We'll see how I feel after this week. Anyway, well, Manny and I will talk again on Thursday, and we'll see what comes up before then because we won't have a game to preview. And then next week will be fun early in the week. I'm going to be out in Vegas at radio row, promoting the book, which will be cool for a couple of days.

And then Thursday night, we will have, it's going to be your night, Manny. It's going to be your night. Now the Thursday before the super bowl will be your night. That's going to be super bowl history night. That is your night. Yes's going to be Super Bowl history night. That is your night. Yes, sir. I love it. That is your night.

We're going to have a lot of fun with that. We'll really put some work into that episode to make it really fun for everybody. Hey, thanks, everybody, for a great chat tonight. You guys were thoughtful and hilarious and really appreciate that. Good stuff. So we'll have a lot to discuss. Yeah. were thoughtful and hilarious and really appreciate that good stuff. So we'll have a lot to discuss. Yeah, we got, we got a Superbowl.

We haven't even talked about whether we like the Superbowl matchup or not. I'm a little man, to be honest, I'm a little like, Oh, them again. I kind of wanted somebody new, but it should be exciting. So thanks Manny for your time. Thanks everybody for watching. And we will catch you again very soon i'm thinking wednesday night for another live chat with everybody so put it on your calendars see you guys then