Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Danielle Hunter is not at OTAs and Aaron Rodgers makes it clear he's done with Green Bay

Episode Date: May 26, 2021

Matthew Coller and Sam Ekstrom dive into Aaron Rodgers's appearance on ESPN in which he talked about the "culture" of the Packers being the problem and not Jordan Love. Sam thinks it's over for Rodgers in Green Bay. Is there any way Rodgers can be convinced to come back? Plus Danielle Hunter did not show up for the first day of OTAs. What does that mean toward his contract situation? And Julio Jones's situation turned WWE style in his "cold call" with Shannon Sharpe. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Get Coors Light in the new look delivered straight to your door with Drizzly or Instacart, Coors Brewing Company, Golden, Colorado, and as always, celebrate. Hello, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here along with Sam Ekstrom, as always, presented by Scout Logistics. We have new news, Sam, on Aaron Rodgers and Daniil Hunter. So pick your own adventure. You tell me.

Who do you want to talk about first? Let's talk about A-Rodge because then we get to talk about Kenny Mayne, which is the most fun topic. I'm going to miss Kenny Mayne on SportsCenter. I thought he had a great farewell, but that was the interview in which Aaron Rodgers talked. So let's go the Rodgers route. All right. So here's my question for you. He goes on SportsCenter to say goodbye to Kenny Mayne. And of course, Kenny Mayne, all the way to the end, being a journalist, even though most of the time he was just being funny and hilarious. But he had to ask, what is your deal? Right. And Aaron Rodgers, a bunch of different times alluded to, finger quote, people and talked about how it was more the culture that was being created in Green Bay than it was anything else.

And he said that he has no problem with Jordan Love and he likes Jordan Love and so forth. So it was never about the draft pick. And I think that Rodgers was trying to do everything he could not to just say, bleep you, Brian Gutekunst. And the fact that Mark Murphy and Brian Gutekunst have not communicated with Aaron Rodgers about the different things that they're doing, including drafting Jordan Love, where nobody gave him a call. I believe the Vikings called Kirk Cousins to tell him that they were probably going to draft a quarterback. I mean, to me, it's like a very basic respect thing.

I think the Bears even told Andy Dalton, he just got there. It's Andy Dalton. Like you don't have to tell that guy anything. And here's the Packers saying, no, no, no, this is how we do business. And one of my favorite things in sports in general is football arrogance. Just like the peak of arrogance is saying, no, we're in charge. We're the people who have all the answers we're we do business this way you're the player we're we're the people in charge it's just ridiculous nobody else is winning mvp nobody else is taking you to 13 and 3 nobody else is dropping 48 touchdowns or leading the nfl and quarterback rating no one else is doing these things

quarterbacks should be looked at as part of the executive decision makers of a team. It should be like a big three, general manager, head coach, and quarterback. And for them to act like they're above that with Aaron Rodgers of all people, I look at it and say, I mean, if you're a Vikings fan, you're super thrilled at how ridiculous this is and how they've treated him. But I think Aaron Rodgers has a point here that, no, he's not the general manager and he's not the one that's going to be cutting people and trading people and making draft picks. But he at least deserves to be in the loop because of how valuable he is to the franchise. And I don't know how you solve that when there is so much bitterness from Aaron Rodgers there for how he's been treated, Sam. I just don't know how you get past this. I felt like watching that last night. I don't know how he goes back there and plays for

that general manager. Well, he spoke in past tense the entire interview, I loved the fans in Green Bay. I loved my teammates. He's gone. He's not going to go back. The Packers would have to grovel with a $45-50 million per year deal at this point. It feels like Rodgers is only going back under the most extreme of circumstances that are in his favor. I tried to look at this not completely black and white because I want to look at both sides, but it is so telling how stupid the Packers look here because the way Rodgers made it sound, they basically preordained this exit when they drafted Jordan Love. And the way Rodgers paints it is that Rodgers' MVP season was not enough to change their mind. Like, they were so on this course.

They were tracking to have Jordan Love become the next guy. And it sounds like have been inflexible in veering off course, even after the quarterback becomes an MVP, and they go 13 and three and a couple plays from the Super Bowl. So that kind of rigidness is, I think that that's unhealthy in a football front office, whether that's a Lafleur thing, Gutekunst thing. That that just seems like you're putting your your pride before the organization um and you're so tied to your first round pick so i i try to say all right now how could this be spun back on rogers like obviously rogers is the one who looks sympathetic here i mean he's the one he's kind of going along he's hosting jeopardy he's getting engaged he's growing out his hair he's uh playing guitar down

in hawaii while the team isTAs. Like he kind of is just coasting through this thing as the sympathetic figure. Where is he at fault in this? And I guess the one thing that I can come back to is if he's pointing the finger at people, well, this is the second straight coaching staff he's had an issue with. So he's not totally absolved. There's probably a little bit of inflexibility with him too. And I guess it's just the butting of heads of strong personalities maybe. Rodgers wants things done his way. The organization wants things done their way.

I think, though, when he is who he is and he's the quarterback and he's sort of the driver of the organization's success, I think it's the organization that needs to cave to him, I would say, in this case, based on his performance. I believe that Rodgers might be a little tough to deal with. He might be a little – there might be a little prima donna to him. But I think you have to make that work with someone of his caliber. So I still, I would tend to side with Rodgers. I don't think

Rodgers is perfect in this case. And to me, it sounds like he's not negotiating anymore. I think he's done. I mean, the fact he's in Hawaii during OTAs and it's like on social media, he clearly doesn't care anymore about the Packers. Right. So I think the only way you could spin this to be on Rodgers is if you think players should just do their job. But I don't think we just live in that world. You know, I think we live in a world where LeBron James is the general manager of whatever

team LeBron James is on, because if you don't like that, then go find another Le find another LeBron James oh you can't and the same thing is with Aaron Rodgers like you just can't go find another quarterback who's going to do these things so he feels like his value to the franchise is so great that he should have a say or that he should have more than just power to call plays at the line of scrimmage and so forth and I tend to agree with that I mean I also think that players are informed enough and players are smart enough that they should have a seat at the table when they are Aaron Rodgers I mean I don't think that Mike Boone is going to have a seat at the table in Denver right or even Drew Locke or Teddy Bridgewater or who, you know, you can name a bunch of them. I mean, but if you're treating Andy Dalton better in Chicago

than you are Aaron Rodgers, then I think that there's something wrong with that. And they seem to be sticking with this Packer way thing. I also think that with McCarthy, it was very clear that the things McCarthy did that were inventive offensively sort of ran their course in the same way that Rex Ryan's defenses ran their course eventually. And the NFL kind of moved on from those things. And then we saw McCarthy coach last year in the NFL pretty unsuccessfully. So, you know, I think that it has been a thing that normally you would connect to sort of being a diva like this whole deal. It's like, why don't you just play? They're going to pay you a bunch of money.

But I also think you probably get to a point in your life where you could sort of take it or leave it. Like, I don't think he's exactly like Brett Favre in this way that he just has to play football. Like, it's his entire identity. I think the Jeopardy thing shows that Aaron Rodgers wants to be a Michael Strahan type who has a broadcast career after and does other things, maybe gets into acting or whatever, because he just sees himself as a more well-rounded person or a more worldly type of person than Brett Favre, who's just all football. So he probably is at, what, 38 years old and saying, eh, you know, I can take it or leave it.

If you don't trade me, then I'll just have a good time with my life and go into retirement here. But I do think if you're the Packers and you've reached this impasse, you should give him away because the return is going to be great, no matter what it is. I mean, think about if you trade him to Denver and Denver gives you two first round picks and Teddy. So you have a veteran quarterback, which, huh, what a nightmare, right? For Vikings fans, if Teddy went to the Packers, but this makes a lot of sense, right? So you bring in a veteran quarterback to compete with Jordan Love or mentor Jordan Love, that kind of thing. And you get a couple of first round draft picks back, you still have a very good team to work with. Those draft picks will help you resolve your cap situation long term. I mean, to me, it's just like, all right, we've gotten here.

You guys picked your direction with Jordan Love. Aaron Rodgers doesn't like your direction. And why doesn't everybody just sort of move on? Dragging this out, and this again from a Viking perspective I mean the Vikings have to be loving watching them drag this out over the entire summer because it's a distraction for the entire franchise and I do think when you have distractions of this level that they impact everyone think of like the Browns leaving or Atlanta when Michael Vick went to prison like these type of things that just tower over a franchise,

I think it's very hard to be a great team when those things happen. The way I see it is it's a foregone conclusion that he's going to be dealt. I think that there's going to be a certain amount of heel digging that has to go on on Green Bay's side and try to up the price. Because when you've got all the leaks coming out, beginning with, you know, Paul Allen here in the Twin Cities and then going to Schefter and Rappaport, you know, on draft day with all of the speculation about Rodgers is done in Green Bay, price gets driven down. So you got to play the game for a couple months. And that's to Green Bay's detriment, but I think a greater detriment would be giving away Aaron Rodgers cheaply. So you want to get the appropriate draft haul. You want to get

everything you want back in return, and I think the only way to do that is to let some time pass. You got to send some clear messages that Aaron Rodgers is not being dealt. You got to pull from the Rick Spielman book of tricks where you have to say the opposite for a while here and try to at least make the appearance that he's going to be a Packer. I don't pretend to know all of the cap nuances, but there could be some June 1st deadline thing that's holding up some dealings. I still think Denver is the play. I think that it's just too telling that they didn't go quarterback with the ninth overall pick, and they don't necessarily have a solution long-term there.

They've obviously done this before, acquiring Peyton Manning in 2012 and then winning the Super Bowl in 2015. So Denver feels like the spot to me. I think there's a lot of posturing going on. I really do. And Aaron Rodgers keeps kind of lowering his own price, I guess, by saying, like, hey, you know, we're at an impasse. I can't get along with these people.

It's a culture problem. And I found it very interesting that he uh he kind of pointed toward people i mean what what people could he be talking about besides his coach or his gm i mean that's that's a pretty incriminating statement and i and i would guess that it's mark murphy and it's brian gutekunst because i mean with matt fleur he was he was an MVP so I don't know how much Matt LaFleur has to do with this but if you're Matt LaFleur imagine how mad you are at your general manager also you got to be like guys we were we were a play or two away from the Super Bowl last year and now you're messing with Aaron Rodgers and now I have to teach a young quarterback how to play when the thing is

too with this team with their cap situation, they really went all in on their contracts. You wrote about this for our website. Like they really did not try to be shrewd. They basically did it as if Aaron Rogers was going into his final season, which makes it even weirder that they drafted a corner. That was another thing. It just didn't make any sense.

Like, so, okay. You want to make Rogers happy. Well, why don't you get a Rondale more or something and then say, Hey, they drafted a corner that was another thing it just didn't make any sense like it's okay you want to make rogers happy well why don't you get him rondale more or something and then say hey hey aaron see what like we want to help you out man you're right you're right and instead they go corner and they overdraft a corner a guy who is projected more to be like a second or third rounder very odd uh to your question about the junest thing, it's a significant difference between before and after June 1st. This is according to Over the Cap. If they were to trade him before June 1st,

they would take on $31 million in dead cap and basically make no savings. If they trade him after June 1st, they create $22 million in cap space and only take on a dead cap hit of $14 million. So that's what we're waiting for, I think. But you look at the khalil max situation and that was a mega trade and even i don't remember when jamal adams was traded but sometimes these go all the way into training camp and with carson palmer remember that went all the way into the next season before the cincinnati bangles finally moved him but what these things always come down to is the guy gets moved. Usually you don't just sit there and stare at each other for the rest of the guy's career

and say, sorry, bud, you're never playing again because we have you under contract. It just doesn't do you any good to sit on something that could be multiple first round draft picks, which brings us to Daniil Hunter. Oh, let me add one side note to this, that if Justin Jefferson hadn't been picked by the Vikings, we would be talking about how similar Aaron Rodgers was to Stephon Diggs. If they had picked Jalen Rager and he was terrible and they went five and 11 last year and had no good outlook for the wide receiver position, we'd be saying the same thing that, hey, look, your arrogance to not listen to Stephon Diggs,

to not hear him out about the offense, and he turned out to be very right in Buffalo and led the NFL in receiving. We would be saying the same thing. Look at the mistake that you guys made. But instead, Justin Jefferson has washed that away, which Jordan Love can too. Daniil Hunter not at the first day of OTAs, according to our friend Courtney Cronin of ESPN. You and I predicted this. We expected him not to be at voluntary OTAs.

However, I think that that is a sign that all the things that had been speculated upon and reported and rumored are right. And if I'm Daniil Hunter, there's no chance I show up at any of these things with only $3 million guaranteed for next year. So my question is, does this run all the way through camp, Sam, or do you think that there is a resolution on the way shortly with Daniil Hunter? Feels like, again, June 1st might be another deadline here because some money will get opened up for the Vikings. But it would have been easier for Daniil Hunter to play this off

if the Vikings had sort of stuck to their statement that they made a month ago, and things have changed since then. Like, don't get me wrong. I don't think the Vikings are, like, a dishonest team for saying we're not going to have many guys at OTAs and then showing up because I just think like things change in the world. A lot of people got vaccinated and the videos show, you know, that the Vikings released. And I feel stupid sleuthing on the Vikings Instagram account. But that's all we had yesterday. Everyone's there. Like everyone is

there except one notable exception, and that's Daniil Hunter. So you can't really play it off as, oh, well, he's just one of, you know, 15 guys. He's pretty much the only guy. So there's a message being sent here. I think it would not make sense for him if like if he wants to continue sort of playing the leverage game, it would not make sense for him if like, if he wants to continue sort of playing the leverage game, it would not make sense for him to show up at all during voluntary. And I think that's, that's somewhat reasonable. You get to mandatory mini camp where, you know, there's money involved and there's just a little more, you know, kind of pressure to show up as a veteran player, as a leader on a team,

someone who's trying to sort of get back in shape after a missed season. Yeah, that's going to show us how he's digging his heels in. I apologize for the dog. You know the rules. We'll take care of that. What do I have to do again? Do I have to do something embarrassing? No, just a dog pun.

You got to work in a dog pun. Okay. You know I can't think think of my feet like that. Daniil Hunter is is still playing this game. So you could say that you know the two sides will be barking at each other throughout this the offseason. You could say this you know this could get hairy or he's got the Vikings on the leash right now. That's right. There you go. Folks, if you are pumped up about how the Vikings did in the draft and now the schedule's out, it is a great time to get yourself a Skull Flag or Bud Grant shirt.

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Call 651-998-2200 today, and I'll see you there. That's all that's necessary. That's your only penalty. Well, I forget what you were saying, so let me just throw this out there. So with Daniil Hunter, the thing about those fines is, yes, according to the new CBA, you have to pay them. But there's an important note here. If he doesn't want to show up for training camp, that $10,000 a day might be like fining you two pennies because Daniil Hunter, I'm going to go through the cash paid. This is important. The cash paid to Daniil Hunter since he signed his deal in 2018, $17 million cash in 2019, 10.5 in 2020,.5 add that up and you have a man that has a lot of millions of dollars in his bank account assuming he hasn't run through 40 million dollars or so in cash

if you're fining him 10,000 a day for training camp this does not matter and like to him he can take it when we talk about that it's usually for rookies because they don't have the cash to just get fined over and over and over and over again. So Daniil Hunter can run this as far as he wants to. And I know that there are a lot of people, Sam, who say with Daniil Hunter, look, man, you're coming off a neck injury. Like, how can you try to hold the team hostage? You signed this contract. But here's where his leverage is. They don't have anybody else who can rush the passer. There's a lot of teams who would take Daniil Hunter, even despite of his neck injury in the

past. And you just, would any of us go do something this risky, like going to training camp or mandatory mini camps and get on the field with no guarantees for the future like that's the important thing here is that if you're him you want to be guaranteed money if you have a catastrophic career ending injury and I think too with every one of these guys it has to impact you that you saw this happen to Teddy Bridgewater it has to it has to be in the back of your mind. He got hurt last year, his alleged tweak of his neck on the first day of training camp. You think he's stepping on the field for a mandatory mini camp when that's where he got hurt before? I mean, it just, it makes

so much sense to me for the two sides to just get together and just work this out. And they've got some cap space to work with. They got some cap space to work with. They have future cap space to work with. The salary cap is going to be going up in two years. I don't see why this can't happen unless the Vikings decide they're really just digging their heels in and they don't want to set a precedent.

But I also think, what's the precedent that you're going to take care of someone who's been one of your elite players and is young and probably still will be. I just feel like this could go on throughout the summer, but it ultimately will get resolved. Well, they kind of were preemptive, too, in taking care of Adam Thielen on the other side of the ball.

And I think Thielen was older at the time than Hunter. Like, Thielen wasn't holding out, and they still did it. You know, they kind of went out of their way to get that done, and it's not like they've had a plethora of cash to work with, and they made it happen. So I think to some extent you're right. Like, I totally understand why people might be upset with Hunter. It feels like, and this is just one perspective on it, but people could see this as like, this is just like bad faith for a guy who's, you know, been like given 40 million guaranteed by an organization

and has performed well for them. And they've like been very, very, you know, good in developing him. And I can see where people would say that, but you're not comparing yourself to yourself. You're comparing yourself to your peers. You're comparing yourself to people that perform as well as you do at your job within your company. And Daniil Hunter is well underpaid compared to that. So if they can find a way to split the difference in annual salary, because remember, Daniil Hunter is arguably $10 million underpaid at his best. If the Vikings can split the difference there and pay him like halfway up to that, $5 million additional dollars per year

and maybe kind of backload that deal a little bit to relieve some cap right now, that might still be a bargain. Like keep that in mind too, with an increasing cap, that percentage of cap hit is going to go down over time. So that could still be a good deal. The Vikings just need to make sure that it works this year. Fortunately, the Vikings had kind of a rough 2018 draft, so they don't have a lot of guys to extend right now.

You know, if they did, if they had two, three, four extension candidates, then this becomes more harder to swallow. But because they don't need to push a lot of money down the road, this is almost like this is imagine if they had to extend Mike Hughes right now. Right. You know, just think of it that way. Of course, you would extend your first round corner. Well, just treat the Neal's, you know, contract extension sort of in the same light. And so I'm looking at the cash he's expected to be paid over the next few years. And we have to keep in mind too, this is all monopoly fantasy money. I mean, because we can't relate it to ourselves at all. If you were to tell me that I was getting $12 million next year, I mean, that's winning the lottery for me, but for

athletes and so forth. I mean mean we're talking about the greatest league the most valuable league in the world so it's just it's just different because i understand where people will say like come on man how could you be upset with making 12 million dollars in cash next year that's what he's scheduled to make for the next three years i guess it's a little closer to 13 million over the next three years each season 12.75 in 2021 2022 and 2023 but that's only if he plays all the games if he doesn't he gets 3.3 if he if he doesn't play at all if he were to get injured again he that's a pretty huge difference that you want guaranteed the other thing is too is that there are other pass rushers who are not in his

realm who are making a lot more cash than he is the guy who would drive you nuts if you were Daniel Hunter is Frank Clark who's not even good and Frank Clark is one of the highest paid defensive ends in the league and you're probably looking at that and saying look I know I'm not quite Khalil Mack and maybe not even quite Joey Bosa, but I'm like only a notch below those guys. I am way above some of the others that are getting paid this huge money. I don't think it did him a ton of favors that Carl Lawson and, you know, Trey Hendrickson didn't get crazy contracts, but even if he got paid like those guys, it would be a significant bump in the amount of cash that he's bringing in. So to me, find a middle ground there that's a little bit above what Carl Lawson is getting

and a little bit below what Khalil Mack is getting, and then go forth with Daniil Hunter. It should be kind of laid out there for you. The only thing is, if Hunter, and this is a possibility, if Hunter just doesn't want to play for the Vikings anymore, then things get really hairy because then you're talking about a Rogers type of thing where the player just digs in and says, look, if you're not going to make me the highest paid player, which sounds like I don't want to be here anymore. I don't know why he wouldn't,

but just in terms of touching on all the possibilities, then you're in a very, very tricky situation where you have to trade him. And that's where get this taken care of before training camp, this contract situation. If it's tenable, then get it taken care of. Because once it gets into training camp, then you're talking about like, man, we don't even know where Hunter's going to be when you start the season. Like, is he going to be ready?

And you've pointed this out that if you lose a couple of games early, you're not recovering from that. So my guess would be that this gets taken care of before training camp. Everything that I've heard from a coach GM player would indicate that they think he's going to be back. I know sometimes that, like I said, already in this show, Rick Spielman says the opposite sometimes, but there's been a pretty united message. Like everybody expects him to be back. I know sometimes, like I said already in this show, Rick Spielman says the opposite sometimes, but there's been a pretty united message. Everybody expects him to be there. Michael Pierce has talked about him. Dalvin Tomlinson has talked about him. Janarius Robinson and Patrick Jones have talked about they can't wait to work with him. Everything points to him being back, as well as the team's actions in free agency.

They could have picked up a defensive end on the Chief, and maybe they still will. That's still a possibility, but the fact that they haven't yet is fairly telling as well to me. So I think he comes back. I just don't know if that gets done training camp or if the team, you know, tries to make good right after June 1st and handle this so he can be there for mandatory minicamp. Maybe this is like the Monday night before mandatory minicamp practices. That could be like a realistic deadline. For me, you just never really quite can tell when it's going to happen. I mean, with Delvin Cook, we thought it would be done before training camp.

And then it ran all the way to right before the start of the season that he finally got his deal. Now, let me ask you something. And it's speculation. Totally just popped into my head. Do you think there's anything to do with the neck injury that could have perturbed Daniil about the way it was handled that would make him disgruntled? I do. Yes, I definitely do. Because when you call it a tweak, and I know that Mike Zimmer tried to circle back and say, hey, I didn't know it wasn't a tweak. I just thought it was no big deal. However, I have been told by some people that this team tries to push guys out on the field as

i as i assume every nfl team does but they had him working out remember on the side and working with eric sugarman and and sort of seemed like he was maybe going to be on his way back after a few weeks last year and they talked like he was going to come back so that made it almost feel like they were pressuring him to not get surgery and just get back on the field and yeah I think what we saw with him using his Instagram to show that he was going to New York to get surgery that was kind of a little jab of like well I'm going to kind of tell people what's going on here myself. And he is not the type of guy to do that normally. He's the type of guy to only tweet out his very impressive or Instagram out his very impressive workouts, which my God, but like that's, that's usually what he uses his social

media for. He is not somebody that normally takes jabs or throw stuff out there. And for him to do that, that to me indicated, like reading between the lines, that he was not happy with the way that was handled and that they'll probably have to make up with money if you're going to make up for that. But also – but this is a common theme. I mean this is a thing that continues to happen with Mike Zimmer, with things that he says makes people unhappy.

And that might go under the same type of same type of category so I was going to ask you though philosophically speaking is it a terrible idea to trade Daniil Hunter rather than paying him what he wants to get paid over the next x number of seasons. I feel like we probably went down this road before the draft, too, and that would have been the time to do it, because then you could have gotten some 2021 capital to help you this year. I mean, when you trade an asset like that, your odds of replacing it are slim. This team is not planning to rebuild anytime soon.

If there had been a sell-off, I mean, if there was a whiff that this team was going to kind of tear it all down, I feel like, yes, maybe I would say yeah. But no, I don't think you want to give up that asset. I think that with the rising cap, you can probably afford it. You don't have another elite pass rusher. No, I'm settling on no. I would not do it. I mean, certainly there's an appeal to a couple first-round picks, but the team that trades for Daniil Hunter is not going to be a top five, top ten pick, I don't think. That's probably a low first-round picks, but the team that trades for Daniil Hunter is not going to be a top-five,

top-ten pick, I don't think. That's probably a low first-round pick. So I would say no, unless this is just an untenable situation and he's in Hawaii doing karaoke with Rogers and his fiance. Hey, everyone. I want to tell you about our friends at Scout Logistics. And I really do mean it when I say friends. They are fans of Purple Insider over at Scout Logistics. And since they reached out wanting to support this show, I want to tell you about what they do. Scout Logistics is just-in-time transportation for full tractor-trailer loads. And if you're wondering what that means exactly, well, if you own or work for a company that needs shipping solutions, they are the preferred carrier of Fortune 500 companies across North America.

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But if you had these weaknesses in other areas, it didn't matter because other teams were able to take advantage of your weaknesses. And I wonder with Hunter, I think when we look at star players, you just never want to say goodbye to them. And so you're always apt to be like, got to make sure we just do whatever this guy needs but on defense I don't know I don't know that I'm bending to a defensive player and I'll just give you an example here the Seattle Seahawks trade two first round draft picks for Jamal Adams and like what did it

get you I mean that their defense was not good last year right he was great their defense wasn't good Eric Kendricks was an all pro caliber player last year for the Vikings. And what did it get you? Their defense couldn't stop anyone. Like one player only has so much impact. So if you were talking about trading Hunter for, let's just say a next year's first, and maybe it's contingent on something or whatever, right? Like another second round draft pick contingent on how much he plays for his new team. And then, so you get that back. Yes, right away, you can't use that, but there are still pass rushers on the market, including Melvin Ingram. You sign Melvin Ingram

to a short-term deal that does not lock you in long-term to that position. You get what? Okay, 80% of his play, but then you have a bunch of cap space right now to continue to add another cornerback another wide receiver an offensive lineman if you want to bring in a little bit of depth like then you have a lot of cap space to work with now and later i think it would be really hard for people who get attached which i I totally get. You buy jerseys of these players and you love watching them ascend. But sometimes I feel like teams overpay so much with these guys they're proud of drafting that you're saying, like, where does the value sort of not meet what you're actually getting and how important he is?

So I guess there is that part of me. The other thing is, too, I mean, yes, there's desperation when it comes to Mike Zimmer and Rick Spielman to win, but you only bow to him if you think like, this is it, man. This is our Super Bowl year. And I'm not sure that's where this team is at. So if the Neil Hunter is traded, Vikings get cash, they get draft capital, looks good long-term. What do they do for 2021? You mentioned Melvin Ingram. You know, the ship sailed on Ryan Kerrigan. Is, you know, Geno Atkins is obviously, he's sort of an inside option. Is Dunlap signed? I believe Dunlap did sign. Dunlap did sign. There's a handful of other guys. There always are, right?

Rotational rushers when you get to the end. I mean, look, it wouldn't be as good as Daniil Hunter, but it's kind of like if you could bring in two rotational rushers as opposed to Daniil Hunter, can you get 10 sacks out of those guys and then stuff the heck out of the run, play good coverage on the back end, and be a good defense? Like, what's the difference between Daniil Hunter with the Vikings, two rotational rushers instead of Daniil Hunter in terms of where they rank in points allowed?

Is it the difference between being 13th and 17th? And to do that, it's probably not that much, right? Maybe somewhere in that ballpark of a couple of slots. I mean, it's just like we overvalue star players sometimes when they're not quarterbacks and I guess that's my only point for trading him again I don't think they will I think they'll look at it like we got to make sure that we keep them around I just think it's not the craziest thing when you look at a star defensive player to say maybe the guy isn't as worth as much as we think he is just because he's very, very good at his job. Yeah, it's the old money ball thing, right? Like if the kneel is going to

be good for 60 pressures, can you find 60 pressures in aggregate of two or three players that are cheaper? Now, if it's last year's defensive line, the answer was clearly no. The aggregate was horrible, and that's the case for keeping him in large measure. This year, you know, there'd be something kind of fun and maybe galvanizing about having this anonymous kind of defensive end group with a couple rookies, obviously big opportunities for Patrick Jones, Janarius Robinson, DJ Wanham would have to blossom, Steven Weatherly would be the anchor, which scares me a little bit.

And then maybe room for someone like Mata'afa or Kenny Willekes. But that would be a very understated group. That's where Andre Patterson's got to get the most out of someone or two people. He hasn't really had anything like Daniil in the past six years. You can applaud him for getting a decent amount out of a couple seventh round picks in, you know, Denebone Weatherly. But now that they have, you know, a third and a fourth, those guys need to be hits to sort of back up the reputation that he has and has had for so long. Yeah, I've just never believed that he has and has had for so long yeah i've just never

believed that anybody has a magic touch as a coach like i i don't believe in quarterback whispers i also don't believe that coaches could be so bad that they can make a quarterback not work like ryan tannehill was pretty good in miami for a couple of seasons and then he was real good when he had a great circumstance in Tennessee but even Adam Gase like couldn't hold him back from having some good performances and getting the team to the playoffs and so forth it's kind of like the Sam Darnold thing like I'm not ready to blame Adam Gase for all of it in the same way that I'm not ready to say that Andre Patterson is to blame for third and fourth round guys not working out or that he is to credit for all of Daniil Hunter's

success right it's like you can overstate you know one way or the other but drafting third and fourth round guys not working out or that he is to credit for all of Daniil Hunter's success, right? It's like you can overstate, you know, one way or the other, but drafting third and fourth rounders, I don't think is generally a model. I think it's much better to just get veteran guys who have done it before. And if you kind of add up to it, but that's kind of my point is, could you add up to 60 pressures and 10 sacks with two guys and the rookies that you have? And the answer is maybe because like you said, if it doesn't work, then it's bad. And that's the low end of it. Like what Hunter is, is the guarantee on the box that it's going to be good. And that, and that fear is why you pay him. So that's why I think it will happen. Before we wrap up, let's talk about julio jones for a minute so julio jones um goes on

allegedly not knowing or seeming to not know he was on the air though i don't buy that for a second with shannon sharp and says i'm out of here with atlanta do you think julio jones is out of here and would that change anything about the way you think of the nfc playoff race if he was out of here. And would that change anything about the way you think of the NFC playoff race if he was out of there? Well, a couple of comments on this. Number one, all of the 23 to 29 year old males getting their hair cut at sport clips at the time of that interview got a huge thrill because I'm sure they were because that's the only thing they show in Sport Clips is the the early morning like debate shows so that was probably a big deal for those people they got to see it secondly there's no chance that that was a cold call I I'm sorry it's like he talked TV for as like allegedly off the cuff as they try to be.

That stuff is scripted. There's no chance that they would like take the risk of like going through the charade of like ringing his phone and him not answering or him swearing or him being like weirded out by it. He was expecting it. And the fact that there was reporting immediately afterward tells you as much. So I'm not buying the cold call bit. I think it was completely set up. And in fact, the fact that it was set up only reinforces the message, in my opinion.

That tells you that Julio Jones wanted this out there. Julio Jones does not want to be in Atlanta anymore. Okay. So, you know, what are the next steps? What does it mean for the NFC playoff picture? Well, if he goes to the AFC, which obviously Atlanta would be smart to trade him out of conference. I don't know if it changes a lot of my opinions because I didn't really like Atlanta to begin with. I think Atlanta's maybe doubling down a little too hard on Matt Ryan. And I don't know if they did a ton in free agency to help that team. So I guess it just makes, you know, one more doormat for the Bucs to beat up on

and help their record and maybe get the bye this year. I don't know if it changes a lot. Now, if he gets traded to an NFC team, then that does change things a lot. And I have no clue where he might be going at this point. You know, they brought up Dallas on the show and he seemed to shoot Dallas down. Dallas didn't make a lot of sense anyway, because they already have a pretty deep receiving core. So I guess my mind is kind of racing, like who does need a receiver and who can afford it? And I don't know the answer to that question. I would need to look at the cap, you know, availability and the needs of those teams.

Do you have any thoughts on who might be a good suitor for Julio at this stage? I think that he would try to get himself traded to a team that would be favored to win the Super Bowl, like the Rams. I don't know. I mean, that might change my opinion a little bit on the Rams if they got Julio Jones, but I don't know how that works. Like with the salary cap, the Rams have already screwed themselves incredibly with the cap. So how are you going to fit Julio Jones?

The team that I think would be smart for Julio to get traded to is the New York Jets. They have cap space. They have a rookie quarterback with a big arm. They have a coach who with a big arm. They have a coach who's rebuilding their defense, and they could be sort of on the rise over the next couple of years. But if you're Julio and you want to win right now this year, then maybe you're not thinking about the New York Jets. And this is what's hard about it, because even when I looked at Vegas odds for the favorites of where he's going to get traded, I just couldn't find one that

really fit. And I think he probably just has to stay in Atlanta. He's not 38 like Aaron Rodgers. I think he's 31, maybe 32. So it's kind of hard to just wrap it up for your career when you're 31 or 32 years old. I think Atlanta with Julio can actually be a pretty good team. They've got a smarter head coach in there, I think, or at least a guy who's very good offensively

that maybe runs something similar to when Matt Ryan was great with Kyle Shanahan. Like their weapons a lot, like their offensive line a lot. They did the same thing the Vikings are trying to do now, which was draft a bunch of offensive linemen, have them grow together. Their defense is still going to be bad, but so is that division. So they've got a good chance. I think if they trade Julio, I don't know if I change it by a ton what I think of them, but if it's one win that Julio is the difference, that might be the difference between you make the seventh seed or

you don't make the seventh seed if you're Atlanta. So if I'm the Falcons, I'm saying, look, man, I know you think it's a pretty tough situation here. We haven't won recently. That's been frustrating. But look at our division. It's old Brady, who is still good, and no one else right now. We could be the second best team in this division. We could be in the playoffs again. That's probably what you have to sell him on. Because otherwise, I mean, it's similar to the Hunter thing in the way that like getting you know the draft capital back would be good for them but it's not similar in how much julio jones is irreplaceable like you

can't get two other receivers who just give you what julio jones gives you like he is one of the most truly dominant players in the nfl so yeah i just, I think that they ultimately end up not trading him. But, um, I would say this, if you, if your first thought when Julio Jones does an alleged cold call with a, with Shannon Sharp is what about the FCC? Like, man, get a life. Like, come on, this is like WWE stuff. Like this is what the off season is like that with football with some of these players right that's what it's become and then what it's always been and that's why it's great and that's why we continue the show through the summer because there's always stuff like this popping up but i mean this was like a like a heel turn or something

this is not like don't wait the freaking fbi is not going to investigate Shannon Sharp calling Julio Jones, okay? If it was Skip Bayless, they would investigate. If it was Skip Bayless, they would lock him up. They should lock him up. No, we won't bring that to the podcast. But anyway, I just thought that that was a – it was such a – it's a funny gag. I love it. I love that it happened.

But I'm just having trouble seeing julio jones actually getting moved there's a big day for high profile nfl players going on interview shows and saying provocative things which was kind of the theme of this show we just needed to kneel to go on first take like that would have really made a full circle i know i know it's kind of interesting with with vikings in general uh we just haven't seen a lot of this type of stuff right since what adrian peterson 2016 going on his own xm show i think uh dj ski dj, that's right. EJ Ski, not the exclusive. Yeah, I feel like the only chance we had was Diggs in 19 to kind of go rogue on us. And he did a little bit. Like, the Truth and All Rumors press conference was not planned.

That was kind of out of left field. And I know it's your Twitter avatar, and I loved every second of it. That was a real thrill for the beat. My favorite part about the truth to all rumors press conference is that Diggs tried to do what they told him to do, which was pretend he was sick. And he couldn't help like laughing at himself. We were all looking at him like, dude, you weren't sick, man. You would have been on the injury report as being sick. But they know that if they had lied as a team about the injury report, then you could get fined by the NFL.

The NFL takes those things as seriously as they can. And so he goes up there and he's like, dude, we know you skipped practice. We saw how mad you were against the Bears, okay, buddy? And then he basically just says, yeah, you got me. And then did like a fake cough, I think his next two or three press conferences just as a. Yes. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep. So the fact that he was sort of self-aware about it was funny. It was almost like and some athletes aren't like this, but it's almost like we've been around you for so long and we know you, man. Like and so like I all you people know me. I can't really just lie to you like this.

And there are some athletes that have no problem with that. But clearly Diggs was not capable of lying that like that to us. So I thought that was sort of funny. But anyway, we'll see what happens with all of these dramatic situations. And soon, I guess tomorrow, we'll have a podcast breaking down what we see at OTAs, which is very exciting. Our first time out there not having to, like you said, watch the Instagram highlights of what happened at OTAs.

They got some new warm-up hats or helmets. Do you notice that? Saw that, yeah. Like some futuristic, like Star Wars characters out there. It's what they use in like flag football leagues, like seven-on-seven flag football leagues. I mean, good idea because, you know, it's easy to knock noggins with somebody even when you're running around in shorts. Better than the shower caps that they've had on every other year. Oh, yeah.

They would put on like the yellow and the red shower caps, which is strange. Over their helmets, right. The paraphernalia used at football practices is bizarre, as we point out on a regular basis. Yes. The donuts, giant red balls that they throw at linebackers. It's great. I plan on doing a story on it at some point. So maybe that'll be a whole summer podcast.

Well, Sam, thank you for your time. We will talk again very soon after we have seen a real practice. And I'm not even counting rookie minicamp. I don't even think that was a real practice. I think what we're going to see on Wednesday is a real practice. So that will be exciting. So I will talk to you then. Thanks, Collin.