Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Day 2 of the Vikings draft was... puzzling and what happened with the quarterbacks?

Episode Date: April 30, 2022

Matthew Coller and Paul Hodowanic talk about a strange Day 2 of the Minnesota Vikings' NFL Draft. The Vikings traded down ...and then traded up...to take cornerback Andrew Booth Jr. And then they took an offensive lineman with serious background issues and a linebacker. Does this feel different? And how were we so misled by the NFL Draft analysts with the quarterback position? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to the post day to purple insider Matthew collar here Paul Hodor Wannick is virtual he's just wrapped up watching a gut-wrenching Wolves loss as if there is any other kind. But maybe depending on your expectations of the Vikings Day 2 draft, you might call that gun-wrenching as well. Because I want to start out by saying, Paul, that through the first several decisions, I thought it was starting to make sense. So they trade out of their pick at number 34. They move back. They get two picks in the 50s,

which is by the numbers of very good deal for them. Not just like, okay, but like a decided victory in terms of draft capital. And if you look at, you know, early first to mid late, what's the real difference there? I mean, it's some, it's always some when you're going later in the draft, but maybe when you're thinking about your positions of need versus what the team who's trading up needs, and you know, the Packers are coming up for a wide receiver. So they're either going to do it with you or they're going to do it with the person behind you. And it might as well be you. So you can get some more draft capital, get more players. And let's not forget the roster is very much lacking in depth and is straight up just weak

in specific areas such as cornerback. So when they decided to make that move back, my thought was, okay, they'll get a corner and then they'll get something else where you have a player with a decent chance to become a starter. And if they come away with three prospects who have a chance to become starters, even if the high end of these prospects doesn't look like it's Pro Bowl year after year or completely game changing or needle moving, it could still be good. And what you need is a lot of good in order to be a winning team. Okay. I get it. And they move up to take Andrew Booth Jr.

Okay. Moving up, maybe not the analytical thing, but that's the corner that you wanted. And a lot of people projected Andrew Booth Jr. to be a first round pick. So, all right. So now you're rebuilding the secondary and here's what we know. You win by passing and also stopping the pass. So Louis seen who spoke today, by the way, it was very impressive, really impressive kid. So he speaks today. All right. That looks like as, as far as picks goes again, not necessarily the Kyle Hamilton,

someone who is talked about with Pro Bowl potential, but a very good prospect. We said that last night. This is a good player. And then Andrew Booth. All right, well, let's go look up all of his data. All looks pretty good. Quarterback rating against his age.

He's only 21 years old. And then, you know, and we'll talk a little more about Booth because he's got some serious injury concerns um but you know overall all right if that's why he drops you get a very good prospect okay okay now it's coming in division and then they decide to go with their second second round pick a guard who pro football focus projected in the fourth round and a lot of people had as a mid to late draft pick like in the entire draft who has very very serious allegations against him when he was a teenager to the point where he was suspended for the entire 2018 season from lsu and that's where you start to lose me

because not only is it a guard in the second round, it's a guard with some serious character concerns that was expected to drop him much farther. And then they get to the third round and take a linebacker of which they have done this numerous times where it's the third or the fourth round. And it's a Chaz Surratt. It's a Troy die. It's an undersized guy who, you know what,

he might make it, he might not make it, but you know, linebacker is certainly not the position that you look at and say, oh, you can't possibly replace that. Now an elite linebacker is very hard to replace and Eric Hendricks is, but middling linebackers, there's a lot of Eric Wilson's in the world who play special teams for three years and then step in as linebackers and are average players. It is the second lowest surplus value position. If you draft an average player, which in the third round, that's probably your expectation is that's what you got. And I walked away from the draft thinking, if you were hoping that this was going to feel different, that you were going to leave the going to feel different that you were

going to leave the draft feeling different that you were going to be able to circle the things on the draft board that are different from things that rick spielman would have done and by the way also things that rick spielman would have said about a player like ed ingram with sexual assault allegations in his past then you were were wrong. Then there is nothing different here. And does that mean it's a terrible draft and none of these players will be good? It doesn't, but it also doesn't feel different at all. And then when we asked Kweisi Adafo-Mensah about their process of looking into Ed Ingram's past, it was the same answer that has given across the NFL that has just become standard

F off language, which is we did our own research. We did our due diligence. We're confident in the guy. Okay, great. That tells us nothing. So what did you do? I'm not telling. Okay. All right, then I guess we all just carry on. And then what? And then if something else happens, then what? Then we all just go, oh, well, you hate then if something else happens, then what? Then we all just go, oh, well, you hate to see it onto the next guy. The callousness of this entire thing is truly grotesque, to be honest with you. And the, I guess, amount that NFL teams and hey, Kweisi comes from Cleveland. So the amount that they're allowed to just go, what, you got questions about this? Go fly a kite.

It's truly frustrating, to tell you the truth. And, of course, you're going to end up with a lot of fans who want to jump to the defense of the player. Was it, you know, is this report incredible? No charges, whatever this, that, and the other thing. I've never known, and I've thing, uh, I've never known. And I've said many times, I've never known exactly how to deal with things such as this,

but I do know that what Ed Ingram was accused of is very disturbing. If you read the details, I won't tell them to you because I don't, it's, it's honestly upsetting. And, uh, people listening to this podcast might be truly disturbed by,

uh, some of the allegations against Ed Ingram. But to just say, no, we're good. We're good. Yep, we're fine. We know it's great. You guys, appreciate you coming to ask, but good day. Well, you know, I guess it'd be Kweisi Adafo-Mensa, who doesn't want the draft being on him, by the way.

He said, oh, it's the organization's draft. Well, sir, if Ed Ingram has any of these further issues related to what happened to get suspended at LSU, it is on your name. Because at the end of the night, you're the guy standing there telling us it's not a problem. So just so we've got that on record, and my God, I hope it's not a problem. So just so we've got that on record and my God, I hope it's not. I absolutely for the community of the twin cities and everyone who knows this man, I hope that this is not a further issue, but if it is who's responsible,

because he made that decision and he stood in front of us and, and said that they are comfortable with his character. So just so we're out of the way there, there is nothing really different about the draft. It may turn out to be fine. I don't know how we could give this any more than like the basic C. They did nothing to change the fate. They did nothing to move the needle.

And I mean, the only player that Kevin O'Connell gets since Kweisi Adafomensa has come here is a guard with sexual assault allegations in his past. So I, yeah, I don't know. I mean, I saw a lot of very, very strong reactions from Vikings fans to what they did. And I'm sorry, Paul. I know that I start every podcast by saying everything that I think all night long, but I've been here a while and I had a lot of tacos and a lot of Dr. Pepper. So I've had a lot of, a lot of time to think,

but you're revved up. You know, I guess I just think like, did, did your roster potentially get a little better? Yeah. But did the, did the needle move? Not unless Andrew Booth Jr. is really, really good. And you also gave the Lions and the Packers potential guys who, if they hit, could smoke you for years to come, which, you know, I mean, I guess that's an interesting decision as well to trade twice within your own division for players who are at premium positions. And the Vikings, you know, they draft a linebacker, they draft a guard, like these are not premium positions. So, you know, they draft a linebacker, they draft a guard. Like these are not premium positions. So, you know, and safety isn't either.

And so I guess if we were saying earlier, make it make sense or where are the analytics or those things, then, then nothing that they did really changes anything. And the last thing I just want to say in the preamble here is just that I do not at all criticize them for not picking the quarterbacks. I mean, as far as those guys got, it was extremely clear that the draft analysts have never been so far off on anything as they were on Malik Willis, Matt Corral, Sam Howell, who hasn't been picked yet as we're talking, Desmond Ritter.

They have never been so far off on a group of players as with these guys who uh we were talked into desmond ritter as a first rounder we were talked into um you know malik willis as the number two pick potentially and it was very clear that nobody thought these guys could play and i owe an apology to a listener who said hey you know why does why is malik willis different than Kellen Mond? And my answer was, well, you know, if the NFL evaluates him and thinks he's a top 10 pick, that means that his tools and his talent is way better. Well, the NFL didn't, so there isn't a difference.

It's still a guy with a big arm and is real fast and nobody thinks can play. So the Vikings made the right move by not drafting any of the quarterbacks. By the time they get to the third round, there is, I mean, just a snowball's chance in hell that they make it. However, wide receivers, pass rushers. I mean, these were just sort of left out there that, you know, aren't necessarily today positions, but maybe in the future are going to be pretty important and are absolutely at the top of that draft surplus, um, you know, charts. And so they didn't add any offensive weapons. They didn't add anyone who could get after the passer and they get, um, a corner who I think is very, very good, but has a extremely serious injury history. And so there's a lot of

red flags and a lot of risks. And they also, because they traded up for Andrew Booth, they did not like really win the draft capital game because they had to give capital back to trade up. So they still ended up with only four draft picks in the first three rounds. And it's not like they came away with some huge bevy of picks. And I just, I don't think it was different.

And I don't know any way to look at it and say, wow, this is different. It's really going to depend on like, how good is Lewis seen? Is Andrew Booth healthy? Can the Ingram guy play at all? Like, I guess we'll see. And the linebacker to me is just not even part of the conversation until he really proves that he has to be. Hello, everyone. It is 11 and a half minutes into the podcast. I am here. I am here. I am ready to talk.

No, it is okay. You needed to get that off your chest. I'm generally underwhelmed by what's happened the first two days. And I think it starts off with just the expectations that we've had for Kweisi Adofamensa and kind of the bill of goods we've been sold about why he came here and the fact that there needed to be change in the organization. One of the biggest things that Vikings fans have had issues with, and I'm sure ownership had issues with,

was the draft struggles that Rick Spielman has had as a general manager here the last couple of years. Yes, he's hit on some first round picks. Justin Jefferson, obviously being the most known, but he's missed on several other first round picks very badly. He's missed on mid round picks at an alarming rate the last couple of years and really left the cupboards pretty bare for the Vikings. And so you come in to year one of Kweisi Adolfo Mensah and with his analytical background

and just what we know of him, you come into the draft with pretty high expectations. This guy is going to come in. He's going to value positional value. He's going to take guys that drop. He's going to win trades when he trades back. He's going to value a lot of those things. And through two days, I'm not confident I can say he's done any of those. He's shown spurts of it I mean the trade back today to start the draft you you trade back with another division rival which I have to at least compliment him on the like the stones to continue to trade back with divisional rivals and continue to let them get wide receivers when wide receiver was a top desire of the fan base and probably what this team needed

to continue to go higher. So I at least respect the balls to not to basically stand your ground and say, no, I don't care who we're trading with where I feel like we're getting value. So there's a compliment there for you, Kweisi. But in general, if we're just looking at the players, if we're not even considering how it's similar to past years of Rick Spielman or the off field concerns, we're just talking about guys on the field, their value. They go and they trade back and they take a safety, not a position that is highly valued, but a good player. And so I think you can talk yourself into that while it might not be the most ideal positional value. It's a solid player. All right,

fine, but probably not the best thing you could have done. You could have taken Jamison Williams, a game changer. You could have taken Kyle Hamilton, most view as a game changer. And it just doesn't. And when I was, I was on Twitter yesterday talking about this, but like, it just doesn't matter how good these Viking prospects are. If Jamison Williams is amazing, it doesn't matter if they found three starters in this draft. If Jamison Williams is amazing, it doesn't matter if they found three starters in this draft. If Jamison Williams is the next Tyreek Hill, it doesn't matter from a wins above replacement standpoint, from an impact on the field standpoint, it just doesn't. So that's kind of a baseline that they have to live with. And now we move into day two,

they trade back. That's nice. Then they have to go trade back up to 42, only four picks earlier than their original second round pick, which I think is kind of just funny given all the movement they had to just end up basically right back in the second round where they were to start the draft. They take a corner with tons and tons of injury risk, but again, a really good player. Those two are really passable picks for me. And so I can say, yeah, okay, that's pretty solid. The next two are really puzzling. Even if we're removing all the off-field concerns about Ingram, he was the 101st guy on the consensus big board, I think.

He took them at 59. I read PFF's draft profile of him. Admittedly, I had not done much work on Ed Ingram. They called him a good run blocker, lot to go in the pass blocking realm of things. Not the way you want to go in terms of who you, the type of guard you get. There were five other guards on the board. In the second round, there are still a lot of good guys at positions of high value. And you still had another second round pick after that, or you still had a third round pick after that to potentially take a guard. There were other guards that were ranked above higher by pretty much everyone.

Like there was no board that I've looked at or kind of gone through Twitter has seen at Ingram at that point. And we're just talking football player at this point. He's just not quite there. He could develop into a starter. He potentially could. Well, he's a second round pick and he's a guard those are guys historically that come in and start right away that is not what's going to be i mean maybe it's happening happening with the vikings but they just signed two other guards they still have wyatt davis on the roster like there's now a crowded area or crowded room at guard and you

just took him in the second round. That's not a good use of value. One, because he was ranked way further back than anyone else had him. And two, not a good use of positional value in terms of what you're picking with the second round pick. There are plenty of guards that profile very similar to Ingram that you could have gotten 40 picks later. They didn't do it it and then they go linebacker which again i don't know what that says about chas surratt probably not great things or troy die probably not great things that a year removed they're already taking another undersized linebacker and they they signed jordan hicks like there's a lot of roster questions that those last two picks

kind of and made unravel in my mind and yeah i i'm just generally underwhelmed and for a general manager that was billed to us as he's going to find value on him find value in and ingram uh he didn't find value in in asamoah like these are not great value picks for him on the surface so i think you have to feel underwhelmed and again we're not going to know how these players turn out for several years. So he could end up being really good, but right now, like he stacked the odds against himself with the guys he picked and then bring in the off field concerns, bring in how it feels the same and it just gets worse. So even if you remove all that stuff, I still only feel like it's average. And then you add some of those character concerns, some of those other concerns, and it's just getting worse. And so I wanted to come into today.

And after the booth pick, I thought I was going to come in today feeling really like positive about what they did. Oh man, they went and dropped, grabbed a falling cornerback and look at these two other value picks. Maybe they added a wide receiver. Maybe they found another guy that was slipping. N'Kobe Dean was slipping in linebacker. They could have grabbed him or something. They didn't do any of that. They didn't seem to match up the value. And so it's not an encouraging first two days for me. The point with the first two picks is that you can really justify them pretty easily

as being picks that would improve how you cover against the pass. And Andrew Booth Jr. seems to me like a guy who has a pretty high ceiling, but even he admitted, he said the words on the conference call, I haven't been healthy since high school. You're like, oh, well, what players generally do when the game gets more violent is get healthier, right? I mean, look, you got him because he dropped because of that. And as far as I've ever seen i've never heard of

data that says if a player got hurt in college he'll get hurt in the nfl so this may have been a nagging thing that he was dealing with for a long time that they get a steal because of it and if the like you said the consensus board tells us a lot players who fall usually that's not like a death knell to your chances. Like that doesn't tell you a whole lot. That's pretty noisy. But if you reach, that's usually like, you've got a very, very high chance. You take a huge risk at a high chance of being a bust with the Ingram pick. They reached massively almost, I mean, pretty much as much as the Patriots did with Cole strange in day one, the Vikings did the same version of that with Ed Ingram, but through two picks.

And maybe these are the most important picks and what matter the most is that they did get prospects that I think you can look at and say, okay, I like that. The trading up for Booth, that's where I go, I don't know. Must have felt that he was the last good corner since people evaluated him and thought that he was a first round talent. And he probably is just per his talent, but dropped because he couldn't go to the combine like that. Okay. That you can get on board with in a lot of ways. And corner is a really important position. And all of a sudden now the cornerback group looks a little more promising.

You have Cam Dantzler who's young and can play at least in the league. Peterson is on his way out. He fills a spot. Shandon Sullivan, I don't know. Maybe there's something there. It hasn't really been so far, but maybe. And then Booth is a player and his data is good in terms of his quarterback rating allowed on throws into his coverage. It's all good. His write-ups from PFF, from other draft analysts, all of it checks all the boxes. Ryan Grigson came out, talked about what a football guy is.

But like that stuff, it matters. Toughness matters. How much you love the game matters. And so if you're saying, all right, the only reason the guy dropped is that there's been some injury stuff. And Kweisi Adafo-Mensa admitted to saying to their own team doctors, are you guys sure before taking Andrew Booth Jr.? But I think that that is a risk worth taking when the guy has the ceiling

of being a first round caliber cornerback. I mean, that's one of those premium positions where you need those guys, you need coverage. The Vikings haven't had it in recent years. And even with Louis Seane, as we talked about yesterday, pairing him with Harrison Smith for two years and then having him take over after that is pretty enticing. Somebody that could be a hybrid player for them or do a lot of different things for them. All of that is pretty good. But really where you can win the draft is a lot of times

around the edges and they didn't do that with their other two picks. And the other part of it, too, is that, you know, when you look at who kind of goes after Andrew Booth Jr., who, again, you know, I'm not going to criticize that pick. I mean, you got David Ajabo there. That would have been a really interesting one. Can't play right away. You have George Pickens. You have Sky Moore. Those are two potential

major impact players. Sky Moore ends up landing with the Kansas city chief. So just write that one in. And you know, George Pickens ends up going shortly after to the Pittsburgh Steelers. Those are two guys who also had first round grades from a lot of people. And so now the Vikings have really said like, okay, well, we're going to put out most of the assets into the defensive side and continue to try to rebuild that. And Kevin O'Connell scheme to daylight, my friends scheme, scheme, scheme, scheme. And the other part about the Ingram thing, just to kind of bounce all over the place a little Ingram only played left guard in college.

And I think that they said Jamal Stevenson came out director of college scouting. Wait, is that his old title? Might be his old title. But anyway, he came out Jamal Stevenson and said, well,

he can play left or right guard, but he's never played right guard. So tell me if you've heard this one before, is he going to have to switch positions? I mean, did you draft an offensive lineman who's going to have to switch positions? I mean, did you draft an offensive lineman who's going to have to switch positions? Because at that point, just take off your Spielman suit. I mean, the people who are saying, I saw Spielman trending tonight,

and I thought, yeah, I get it. I get it, because drafting an offensive lineman and somebody where they can come out and be condescending about something that happened in the player's past and then tell an offensive lineman he's got to switch positions to compete. I mean, wow. It's just, I have heard this song many times before. So yeah, there's a real dichotomy there, but there's also like the idea that like, let's not lose the forest through the trees here of what wins in the NFL offense, offense wins in the NFL. What do you have right now? You have a quarterback who's capable of being one of the 10 best quarterbacks

in the league in his, at his best, whose best season just cracked the top 10 offensively in 2019. That was best offense that he's ever led. 2019. You have a running back. Who's on his last legs of his prime. It's just reality of the age. You have a running back who's on his last legs of his prime. It's just reality of

the age. You have a receiver in Adam Thielen who's on the last legs of his prime because of his age. And you have another guy who is a mega star and an offensive line who is not going to improve because of Ed Ingram, more likely than not just the reality of rookie offensive linemen. We saw it last year with Christian Derrissaw. I think he's going to be a real good player, but last year he didn't change their fate. He still struggled in pass pro because it's the NFL and Ed Ingram, even if he blows everyone away and wins the job, that whole thing. Oh man, only Udo looks great. Like just, you know, we've done this Ezra Cleveland looking great at guard and then they move them over there and it's tough. And so I guess what keeps coming to mind for me is I thought we might leave the

draft in the first two days with one player where we would say, Ooh, this is their luxury or Ooh, this is that player who could be kind of a wild card. Like Sky Moore would have been a wild card here, or even somebody that is later down, uh, down the list instead of picking you know ed ingram uh also by the way the next two guys could have easily been vikings picks next several guys cam uh taylor brit from nebraska a corner who's got a lot to like drake jackson the edge rusher nick benito another edge rusher like you know there's some there. And that's the other part of it, too, is you are also really relying on Daniel Hunter and Z'Darrius Smith. Who is after them? Nobody.

I mean, they're developing people or they're trying. Janarius Robinson and Patrick Jones and those types of guys. But there's nobody that we know in that category. And maybe they have plans to sign somebody. But you're talking about big risks there and no next wave you need to draft them now to have a next wave of pass rusher as opposed to waiting until later if you lose daniel hunter or if zadarius smith isn't doesn't come back from his back injury in the same way and they decided to go with a guard who like you said i mean there's just not really

evidence of a high ceiling for this guard he's 23 23 years old. Like, so this isn't somebody who we're talking about like, wow. I mean, the character concerns, but he could be the next whoever I'm not even certain. That was the reason that he dropped or, or that, uh, he wasn't considered a high pick, um, because there's no evidence in any of his draft reports. They're like, whoa, whoa, this guy could be the next Quentin Nelson. If only for the character, someone's going to take the risk that's not how anything is even written because it was 2018 when he was suspended and then since then he's played and hasn't had issues but I mean even then you're still talking about a guard who as you mentioned some of the reports like not thrilled with the pass protection and look at him as kind of a low ceiling potential player.

So, yeah, I mean, I think that that that is sort of all comes back to the bigger picture. Conclusion is you probably made yourself better with the first two picks. I think seen is a guy who you could project pretty easily that even the worst version of him is somebody who's very helpful to you is not like a disaster. And then, you know, boot, the worst version just doesn't play, which is a, is a major concern, but the best version could be really, really good. So all of that, like, okay, all right, cool. But there were opportunities here to make your offense still better. Even later on to even potentially improve your pass rush later on for guys that

had some higher grades and they just straight up didn't do that and a linebacker who weighs 220 pounds like you know pff actually liked um asimola quite a bit and i think quesia da fomenta gave a really good explanation of why they liked him so much talking about his versatility and talking about, you know, his speed, which is really good. He ran a four or five and he has instincts and he has a lot of accolades for a linebacker. It's just like, you already have two or three developmental linebackers behind Eric Hendricks. Jordan Hicks is on a two-year contract. Like, I'm not sure what exactly, unless you think he's taking over for Eric Hendricks after next year which I guess I understand but is that a position that's hard to find and the answer is it's hard to find Eric Hendricks but drafting someone in the third round I don't know if that's

going to be him so I kind of keep coming back around to this idea that you know if you even think about this like the best case scenario for all these players, it's really Booth who is the only one that can move the needle. And the other ones, even the best versions of themselves, assuming that Lewis scene does not have the next Ed Reed type of ceiling, that assuming his ceiling is like a real good, solid player. If all players hit their ceiling here, you get a, what? An average starting guard. You get a linebacker who can, you know, make a lot of plays from sideline to sideline. Probably not the next Fred Warner, Eric Hendricks. And, you know, if you,

if you hit on booth and he hits the ceiling, you get a really great playmaking corner who could pick off past like this guy's good. And that's where you came away with four picks from. I think that when you're talking about competitive rebuilding and trying to get closer to a championship, even if all of these things work out, did you get much closer to a championship with this draft?

And it's hard for me to say the answer is yes. Yeah. And again, with the linebacker and the guard, it just comes down to, to fulfill even a second round draft value. Like the guard is, he just has to be above average at the least to really feel like that pick is worth it over a wide receiver like Sky Moore, or even over some of those edge rushers that are there. I mean, the Vikings have a nice starting unit of edge rushers, but as we've seen with dominant teams in the past,

you have to go six, seven, eight deep there where you can rotate and feel really good about plugging those guys in situationally. The Vikings don't have that. Behind the starters, I guess you feel good about DJ Wanham maybe being a rotational piece potentially. There's not much after that. And so, again, the guard just has to be an above-average guard.

It has to be an above-average guard coming in as a second rounder to be worth that pick. And on the surface as a prospect, that feels like a little bit of a stretch. It's a possibility, but it feels like a stretch. And then you add in the character concerns concerns and it becomes a really big stretch. And so that's just a gamble that you took there, an unnecessary gamble in my mind, when there's, it's not like there were a run of guards and you felt like, ah, the value is not quite there, but we need a guard and we don't know who's going to be there the next time. Like guards have continued to go off the

board in round three. There are still talented guards in round four that really value right line up right with Ingram's value and so it just comes back to I think why many fans are disappointed and why I think it's right to feel disappointed is we came into this draft feeling like okay Kweisi's going to do some different things he's going to analytics the draft, whatever that means. And maybe there are some nice underlying analytics about these guys that will show themselves over the course of their career and will prove to be good pieces. But on the surface, the analytics things that we know and can see don't feel like they've been there. Three of the four players they've drafted are not at high positions of value and let's be honest all three aren't necessarily in at least in my mind their biggest needs cornerback was their biggest need i thought edge was right next to it at a biggest

need i it's scary to say but i actually kind of felt okay about where they were at guard coming into the draft like i didn't necessarily feel like they were in a position where they had to reach for a guy. They find, they grabbed a couple guys. I liked that strategy and a guy, you know, at least one in Davis, Jesse Davis that had played a decent amount played. Okay. It didn't feel like they needed to do that. And so one of the ways he could analytics, the draft was to take guys of high positional value that even if they come out as average based on where you drafted them in the position they are turn out to be above average players that didn't happen or they grab guys that are falling that are falling for whatever reason they seem to do that with booth although they did it they grabbed booth

but the reason he was falling is injury concerns and that's one of the most those that's one where you kind of are saying well do we want him to pass then because of injury concerns. And that's one of the most, that's one where you kind of are saying, well, do we want him to pass then because of injury concerns? We've seen cornerbacks that are drafted high by Minnesota in the first round that had injury concerns. Mike Hughes, like he didn't play that much. Like we've seen that. And so for me, that's the most disappointing thing is I was expecting some new age, new ideas coming into the draft. And it just doesn't feel like we've gotten that. You got a versatile safety in the first round after trading back from a premium draft spot. Okay. Maybe you recoup some value. You felt like the prospects plateaued after the

top five, 10, whatever. But everything after that just still hasn't inspired a lot of confidence in me, at least that this was the best way to attack the draft and that there were, there weren't other better ways, especially if you have in mind being competitive right away. I'm not sure what these players do other than provide some depth right away from you right away for you to move forward. And like you said, not much at all to move the needle on offense, which they had a solid offense and great, but we can't expect things to stay the same year after year after year. Guys are going to continue to get older. Thielen's going to get older.

Dalvin Cook's going to get older. Kirk is even getting older. They're all installing a new system. There's no reason we shouldn't just pencil them in for the same exact offensive output or even more. And they did nothing in this draft to help them get better on offense. And it's, it's just overall underwhelming as I go back to what I said at the beginning, just underwhelming in general. Yeah. Another point I want to make before I have a sort of

a hotter question for you is, you know, they've talked so much about the culture. And I guess one thing that has been made clear is that the culture doesn't include the off field stuff. And, you know, look, I'm not saying for sure that, you know, I know this or that or the other thing happened. I read the reports. I read what the accusations were, but it certainly comes along with some serious risk when that is in someone's past. And for them to say, no, he's a,

he's a great guy. It's fine. You know, I guess that's just not going to be part of what they factor in. Like, I guess for them, culture means what kind of football guy are you and nothing else. So I guess that's,

that was the other message to talk about things that we've learned about them. We learned that it's not going to be analytics in the draft to some space age type of way. It's going to be, you know, probably a lot of the same ideas. And we also learned that that's just not going to be a factor and that they're also willing to come out and say the same things publicly that pretty much every other team does and sort of go along the lines with that. Um, so, which is not, which is not a particularly like up-to-date type of way to do it either. It's sort of the old way

of being like, we did our research quiet you. Um, so, you know, I guess we'll see how that goes, uh, into the future. And again, you know, my hope would be that everything goes, you know, swimmingly for that draft pick. But that's certainly a big red flag and a lot of risk that you take on a pick like that and a very strong message that you send that that's not part of something we care about for our new age culture that we're building. So, you know, pretty strong message there, I think in drafting at Ingram. Here's what I was going to ask you

though, to wrap on day two. And you know, look, I w I was, I was thinking about like, what would be the thing they could do that would just be like really exciting or like really blow the top off this thing. And I thought there's two positions. One of them is receiver. The other one is quarterback. But in the light of day with these quarterbacks, I have to ask this question. Does it now make sense? This is not a leading question. I want your earnest opinion, Paul. Does it now make sense that they extended Kirk for another year? Now that we know that literally no one thought any of these quarterbacks outside of Kenny Pickett were worth a darn. I think it makes more sense. I still don't quite get the no trade clause and giving up some control there. But I think one of the principles we were going off of for the why extend Kirk is there seems to be at least one quarterback there

that could be available for you that the NFL feels like could be good and is a better option with a rookie contract than another year at Kirk. Now it's more understandable. I still think that they could have rolled with a one-year stopgap quarterback like the Falcons are doing with Marcus Mariota, like others are going to do uh whoever signs baker mayfield if anyone does uh like or jimmy garoppolo like there are still some quarterback options out there that the vikings could have had the opportunity to go and get if they just wanted one year of a guy so i don't think the fact that none of the teams value a quarterback um completely like says oh like

completely validates the vikings extending kirk cousins i don't think it does i think there are still options but it certainly makes it more understandable about why they felt like this is the best option for this year to remain competitive one of the one of the main things about a team that's going to rebuild or is planning on rebuilding or thinking about rebuilding is you need to have a competent quarterback in place to evaluate the rest of the roster around you. It's hard when you have Zach Wilson to evaluate what receivers are good or what offensive tackles are good because you just have a train wreck behind as a quarterback quarterback it's the same situation that the lions are slightly in with jared goff like you want someone average to at least evaluate your

team around kirk's going to get you in close games where it's going to force your defense to play in some high leverage situations it's going to force your head coach to coach in some high leverage situations so kirk has kind of a stop gap and to learn more about the rest of the roster is about the highest end guy that you can get for that job that also opens the opportunity for you to win a playoff game or two probably not much further but it offers that and so yes it makes more sense now that we've seen how the NFL values these quarterbacks but it doesn't completely validate it doesn't completely eliminate any question marks about what they could have done if they didn't get rid of Kirk.

But I get it. I get it. Malik Willis is not good. Like, I get it. OK, you didn't have to you didn't trade away Kirk and had to go with that. You didn't have to get desperate. That's probably the best spot you could have been in. But I still think there are other options. I just want to know, by the way, if some of these draft analysts are holding a press conference for them to explain why and what they saw in Malik Willis that the whole NFL didn't see. I just want to know because at the root of my opinion about Kirk, and I'll circle all the way back to the beginning here at some point, but like at the root of the opinion about Kirk and the extension is the idea that the quarterback that they would be taking is a

first round prospect. Because the fact of the matter is if the league evaluates someone as a first round prospect, you don't know if they're going to succeed or not, but the odds are decent. And what was it like 60% of them got a fifth year or got a next contract or something that, you know, Eric Eager ran the numbers on. I mean, the numbers are pretty good for, and, and the bar is pretty low for quarterbacks to be, you know, a certain level for your team to have success. And we saw Baker Mayfield, nobody even wants the guy. His team won 11 games, Jared Goff, his team's going to move on. Eventually he was in a Superbowl that Carson Wentz has been traded a couple of times. His team was in a Superbowl like that hack, like that, that was rooted in the idea that they are first round prospects.

Okay. So really I feel as Ja Rule once said, like hoodwinked, bamboozled, led astray by the draft analyst universe, which is how we all form our opinions on, on the, the basis that they have at least some sense of where players should stand. So with, with several players, I mean, think about what the, the mocks said, the accumulation of the mock drafts had Malik Willis going somewhere between like 10 and 15. And he goes at 86 or something uh you know many of them had desmond ritter as a late first round prospect i mean just the accumulation of the whole draft world and they all missed it because i think it's long been my theory that they all copy off of each

other and the group think just ends up with all the same versions of the same opinions. You can't tell me that no draft analysts watch Malik Wilson went, oh man, this guy stinks. What? What are you guys talking about? He's a third round player. What? Now I felt that way about Desmond Ritter and that's what came to fruition about him. I watched JTO Sullivan's, you know, QB school and JT was, you know, holding back, throwing up, watching some of the tape

during those things. But again, we're going on the presumption that they have some understanding whatsoever of what a first round draft pick looks like. And I think the obvious answer is that it's mostly group think. They take the opinions of a few people, a few top analysts, and then just copy and paste them and write different versions of them, which is why it's so frustrating. But I feel like in even forming that opinion, I was led astray. If I was told that there is only one guy who is going to be 20th and everybody

else is a third rounder, that's 2013. All again, I don't need Gino Smith. I don't need Mike Glennon. There's no point in drafting those players. And I would have much more understanding of extending cousins for one year. However, we have to go back further though, on this to the end of the Zimmer era and think about how you felt about the team and what it needs to go where it needs to go. It doesn't need a buffing up. It doesn't need a safety. It needs a whole, a whole rebuild, not a competitive rebuild to actually compete for a Superbowl. And there were a number of available quarterbacks, which you brought up. Baker Mayfield is one of them, but also, you know, Marcus Mariota is another, like you're not that different than Atlanta. I mean, and the other part too,

they tried to trade Kirk cousins. So this was something that was considered, but they did not get what they were hoping for in return and elected to just go the competitive rebuild route. So the fact that even though they knew that this draft class was as awful as that, everybody was saying, well, no, a hundred times more awful they knew that and they must have been watching the mock draft being like oh man this is gonna be hilarious when this finally comes out uh but uh you know so they knew that nobody thought that these quarterbacks were any good at all outside of kenny pickett and so you know i guess with kenny pickett we can judge that one like you could have taken him at 12. And so, you know, that's one, I guess we'll keep an eye on that. They

decided, you know, they're not going to take him, but when you go all the way back to the beginning, it's like, well, we're here now. So why talk about that far in the past? But as we evaluate this particular question, that was a part of it. You can have a bridge quarterback. You can start adding pieces in free agency with five-year contracts and players who will be here for multiple years and really restock your roster with money. I saw the other day that now that the dust has settled, Kirk has the fourth highest cap hit of any quarterback in the NFL in 2022, the fourth highest. I mean, you can't work around that. So rebuild your roster, sign a veteran quarterback

journeyman to sort of fill that gap, do what Denver did, prepare yourself for the next angry quarterback at his team or to draft one next year. I think overall would have been a better route. However, I will say that it definitely looks different in the light of day. And I'm frustrated by it, Paul. I mean, I'm honestly frustrated by it because I never expect the mock drafters to get the mocks right. I never expect anybody to be perfect. But when you have a guy, some people evaluating saying, oh, this guy, he's a second overall pick the lions.'d be crazy not to take him lions and he goes in the third round then what did then what did you miss why did all of you think this uh because i have

never considered myself a scout i don't know how to scout uh i've i've read some books i've watched a lot of football like anybody else but i didn't i didn't train as a scout with a football team. Like we're reporting on stuff, right? So you expect that other people who spend their whole year doing the draft, we do a football season. So you're not, you're not scouting. You're like doing a football season. So you rely on your sources that are supposed to be credible. And I feel like there were a few people who said, no, guys, no, it's pretty rough, but everybody missed, everybody missed. They all believed each other's stuff. And so I guess I'm frustrated because I want to have for the show and for my writing the right opinions to share with people. And so when I expect that there's like three or

four potential first round quarterbacks, it's a very different opinion from basically none. Um, when it, as it pertains to what the Vikings do at quarterback. So I guess I, I just wanted to throw that out there. And I don't know, like someone asked me today, like you need to name names or whatever, take shots at people. And I'm like, no, it's really the whole industry in general. It's the whole industry in general that look at every mock that has Malik Wilson, every mock has him as a first round draft pick. And every single one of them, not only missed by a little, but missed by the moon.

And I just want to know what happened. I want to know why this was so far off. And we were so misled because based on what we thought from all the draft reporting and analysis for people who claim to watch thousands of hours of tape, we were thinking, man, if they pass on him at 32, if they pass on him at 34, they're pretty nuts. And instead it's like, oh no, no, they were right all along. And everybody, everybody agreed with them outside of potential outliers, which is always possible, but playing the odds game, there's no point to drafting anyone past the second round. So, um, yeah, I guess that was part of like what I wanted

to get off my chest at the end of the night here was just that this quarterback thing really threw a wrench in how we viewed the entire draft lead up. Um, I would still say maybe they should have grabbed a receiver, I guess, you know, that's, that's how, that's how, that's how I'll finish. You just give your reaction and then we'll call it a night. Well, I think I know who to blame. It's whoever took that cell phone video of Malik Willis, helping that lady cross the street in at the NFL combine that, that just threw everything out of whack.

Suddenly he's flying up draft boards. Great guy just does everything you'd need for this team. Look at him helping this old lady or old man across the street. I don't even remember what it is. So that's who I'm blaming. I'm blaming that person who took that video for Malik Willis's rise. And also while you were doing that rant, I was just thinking about Kwesi's comments at the NFL Combine when he said like, well, you know, NFL draft people said the Patrick Mahomes draft was a bad one for quarterbacks.

So I just want to know what Quasey was thinking in the back of his mind when he said that. I'm going to say this, and I know people are going to talk about it. And I just imagine he went back, he left the press area, he turned around, and he just kind of snickered to himself because he's like, none of these quarterbacks are anywhere close to that. And if you recall, I left the Combine saying that they were going to stick with Kirk, though, for the exact reason that people had told me

that the Vikings did not believe in the quarterback class. I just didn't know that nobody believed. And I will say, if maybe K quacey was talking about kenny pickett if he was talking hey there is one there is one guy maybe he'll be the ej manual but there is one guy whose future we have to follow still uh not you know actually no there's a bunch christian watson jameson williams kenny pickett and kyle hamilton is sort of the list of yeah we'll be keeping an eye on you and i would say too you, you know, some of the other receivers, Sky Moore, you know, but I don't think I think that if you're criticizing the Andrew Booth pick, it's a little bit much. But I would

get it if you were saying, you know, I would have rather had Sky Moore or one of the other receivers. So anyway, well, what a weird just what a weird couple of days, honestly. I mean, just a roller coaster. And I always try to get the gauge of how people feel. And it's very, it's been, people are totally baffled on night one. And by the middle of the day today, they had totally come around to it. We'll see what they do in the second round, which we said, be patient. Let's see what they do. And then by number 42, I think rebuild the secondary. I got it. And then the, the, the picks and you know, I mean, they might turn out well, but like, I just, I don't know,

kind of an odd thing. And then as this, as the farther, the quarterbacks fell, the more kind of confused I got about how this could happen. And I still don't know. And you know what? We won't get any answers and we'll get the same stuff next year with some other position, but it was just really noticeable with this. So anyway, well, I appreciate everyone taking the time to listen and we'll figure stuff out now. I mean, we'll have day three and we'll have another pod and we'll do the full breakdown as we do of every pick. And we'll talk about,

you know, the guys we've never heard of in the third round and where the long snapper goes we're talking about punk cod tomorrow no we're not uh and uh and we'll have a good time but you know day three is always fun because you kind of just you know project where they are and there's a ton of conference calls and everything like that but um if if you're if you're trying to work yourself up into you know having some excitement i get it, because everyone wants to be excited coming out of the draft. For a lot of teams, it's your Super Bowl.

Maybe that'll be the case for the Vikings. And that's why it maybe is so frustrating for a lot of other people, because your most exciting day of the year sometimes is the draft. And I don't know if this was as exciting as maybe Vikings fans expected it to be. So we will do it again tomorrow. And thank you, everybody, for listening. Thank you for your time, Paul, especially in your state of despair based on the Wolves. And we'll talk again soon.

Thanks, everyone, for listening.