Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Defector's Drew Magary sizes up the Vikings playoff matchup

Episode Date: January 11, 2025

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Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here and joining me from Defector. We couldn't have a Vikings playoff game without Drew McGarry. Drew, it was two years ago, right around this time that you and I were hanging out in some place in downtown Minneapolis watching the Jaguars come back against the Chargers and win a playoff game, and then the Vikings losing to the Giants the next day. We've come a long way in our lives since the last Vikings playoff game.

How do you feel? Well, first of all, I just want to say, football! Football! Ba-ba-da-ba-na-na-na-na-na-na-na. Ba-ba-da-ba-na-na-na-na-na. Ba-ba-da-ba-na-na-na-na-na-na-na. Okay, how am I feeling? Okay, so I'm going to tell you a quick story. So first of all, in context of this week, there's a couple of things. One is that I can't talk about this game without talking about the,

you know, the external circumstances around it. Because, you know, I have lots of friends in LA. They were in harm's way and could still be in harm's way. So I'm very, very worried about them. And, you know, that's sort of like the, you know, the cliched puts things in perspective sort of thing. But, you know, the difference puts things in perspective sort of thing but you know i you know the difference between the beginning of the week when you know was like oh god i you know are they

gonna wake up in time for this playoff game as opposed to you know oh well this game might be in arizona and i you know i just hope everyone you know lives and that la doesn't burn down entirely is you know it's quite a, quite a mood shift, but I wanted to just go back, uh, and get all my talking out of the way. Cause so two weeks ago, uh, for the Packers game, I went up to see my mom. Uh, it was like right after Christmas and I'm seeing my mom and my sister's family was there. My brother was there and, uh, my mom had a nice dinner out and I'd inherited a watch from my dad when he passed away last year. And it was a nice watch.

It was a dress watch. Not a watch you wear like when you're going to 7-Eleven or it's like for nice events. My mom wanted me to wear it for dinner that night, even though she also knew that Vikings Packers was that night. Right. So I sat at the dinner table with my Jordan Addison jersey on and then also this nice watch. And then after like 20 minutes, I got up to go finish the game. And no one in my family gives half a shit about football.

They don't care about football at all. I'm the only football fan in my family. But they all kind of like the Vikings just because I like the Vikings. So they were watching me watch the pack, the Vikings Packers game. And, you know, like sort of my mom was like, oh, you make it so much fun to watch these games because you're hooting and hollering. And I was, I was hooting and hollering a lot. I was wearing the watch and we won.

So I said to my mom, I was like, oh, okay, I got, I guess I got to wear the watch every game now. She's like, yeah, you got to do it. And of course the Detroit game comes and I'm all fired up for that game. But I forgot to wear the goddamn watch. And so I'm going to use that little bit of superstition. Because if I wear the watch this time and they win, then I have the talisman of destiny. And I will get them to win a Super Bowl. If it doesn't win, then I was just a stupid idiot and whatever.

But I'm going to wear the watch this time. So, you know, I'm hoping that that turns the tide, but I cannot be certain of that. Okay. Well, that's a really nice story. Thank you. And I would like you to give the watch to the left guard because he's going to need any help that he can get along with the rest of this offensive line

and you know it's that that's the thing is that it's so hard to know like i think that you know the most sort of tired of us among vikings fans just see the green Bay game or see the Detroit game as, you know, okay, that's who Sam Darnold really is. And this will carry over and there's really no way out of that. But, you know, obviously in the greater, you know, if you look in the greater sample size of the year, it's anomalous, right? That red zone performance, Darnold's performance, the offensive line performance, even because their performance in the Packers game was the best they have. I've seen a Vikings team play or a Vikings offensive line play in like 15 years. So we know they're capable of playing well.

I think the only thing is I just, I don't know how, how much the hangover from Detroit is affecting them. You're, you're going to be the one who's going to be at the practice facility this week. You will know whether or not Kevin O'Connell still looks, you know, a little shaken because he, he seemed shaken after that game. And he was calling plays at the end of the Detroit game. Like he was scared of, of his own quarterback. Uh, that's something we haven't seen this year. So if that sort of thing happens again, that sort of mindset carries over, I think that would be more indicative than, than anything else, but i'd rather just talk about the matchup you know yeah i mean the not going

forward on fourth and four when they were down 17 to nine yeah i thought i thought that that was about how sam darnold was playing more than this is the right decision to go to do this because they had just given up a seven minute drive and you're playing against one of the best, one of the best offenses. And then one of the most aggressive coaches, like you really need this. You really need this drive.

You really need to score a touchdown here. And to try to kick the field goal from 50 plus, when your kicker's been a little shaky, he's like, I think that he, he himself is shocked at what is going on with Sam Darnold in that game. And I can understand why everyone in the fan base was completely shaken by that. But I also know that the end of a season doesn't always predict what's going to happen in the playoffs.

And the end of the season for the Vikings overall was really good. I mean, they won nine out of 10 games at the end, but it's really just the last thing you saw. But, uh, I'm, I am curious about what you think of Kevin O'Connell leaning on his experience in the 2021 playoffs with the Rams as a message to this team, because it is, there's a lot of parallels there. They are going to have to go on the road. Uh, they are a team that has a lot of veteran players that creates explosive plays and turnovers, but is imperfect. And they're going to have to have it click in to all work, to go through the playoffs, but also the Rams played a miserable game offensively and lost to the 49ers in the last game of the season. Yeah, they blew that game too. It was

a profound collapse and it cost them the division and so they had to go on the road to win the Super Bowl and they did. I remember that game quite vividly. Do you like that message? Do you like that message? Do you like that concept? I mean, yeah, it's all, you know, I think that Kevin O'Connell is very good at putting, you know, it sounds weird to say a happy face on it,

but just a resolute face on it. You know, this was especially true after that Jacksonville game, right? Where he was like, you know, Sam John played like, and he was like, look, I never thought benching him. That would be stupid and insane. We're going forward. We're going to keep going no matter what. And the team took cues from there. And I think he knows that that's the best way to, you know, to get, to get a good effort out of them. And I imagine he will be doing, doing the doing the same thing this week.

It's just whether or not he is confident enough in his message to get across convincingly to them. I think he is. And it ain't like I'm like, oh, boy, I hope we trade him to the Bears. I hope that the Wilfs pay him $30 million a year from now until through the rest of the decade and beyond. So you want to talk about the game. Why don't we do it through concerns and confidences? How about that?

Yeah, yeah. I think that's a good idea. Okay. So why don't we begin with what you are most confident in going into this game? I'll throw one out there, give you a second. I am most confident that they will not miss all the same passes that they missed against Detroit because, you know, I looked at all the film and then I watched other people's film breakdowns like chase Daniel, former NFL quarterback who once beat the Vikings

at soldier field. And chase Daniel's big takeaway was Sam Darnold didn't miss these throws all year. And it would be shocking if he did again, because the plays were there, the opportunities were there. And, and, and look, some people showering praise on Aaron Glenn. He did a great job. He did a great job, but also those plays get hit. It is the game that we thought it was going to be a shootout on wide open opportunities from Sam Darnold. So I am confident that he will not miss all of those same opportunities again. Yeah, I'd agree with that.

The other thing I would be confident is he, you know, the other, the other side of that equation is our receiving corks. They, they played poorly in that game as well. You know, Sam eating was, was the headline and the thing that everyone noticed and everything the thing everyone should have noticed he played poorly but you had justin dropping balls you had tj hockinson dropping balls and they weren't like perfect throws but they were ones there were those were throws there were some misses that sam had that you usually have justin jefferson jordan addison and tj hokinson clean up for you. Like they're able to sort of bail him out. They weren't able to do that in this game.

And I think that that is a pretty unique confluence of circumstances. I don't think that'll happen again. I think that we will be able to score points because that's just, I don't expect us to do, you know, just nine, you know, to have to score just nine points because that's just, I don't, I don't expect us to do, you know, just nine, you know, to have to score just nine points because I think it was also an obvious lesson to Kevin O'Connell that if he is confronted with fourth down situations, similar to last week's this week, I think he will go for it rather than opt for the field goal. And I think that that will help us score more touchdowns because, you know, look, it's the playoffs now. You don't win with field goals.

And the Packers learned that against us the hard way. And we have to, you know, we have to teach the rest of the teams that. O'Connell's decision making, though, and his general overall in-game feel has been something that from time to time I've wondered about, which does not mean trade him to the bears as you said it just means that even in this last game there was coming out of the second half they ran this deep over route with Jordan Addison that required Sam Darnold to throw the ball probably 30 yards in the air and layer it over a linebacker. Now that's something he has done all year, but he was not doing that night.

And the throw just comes flat and nothing happens, even though he had time to throw. And it's just, that's not really where you want to go with that. And the red zone, while they've been good in the red zone, it hasn't been that much of an issue throughout the year. It is a concern for me that they cannot run the ball down there. And I'm sitting there thinking when they're at the two run three times, get in the end zone. But the numbers kind of back up. Don't ever run if you're the Vikings in the red zone because they're just so bad at it, which does not seem ideal for this team against the Los Angeles Rams, where they

had some problems in the red zone the last time they faced them. That's true because they're front very good. Um, you know, I, I look at Jared verse and you know, I, you and I have talked, you know, offline about verse versus a Dallas Turner. And I know how much older versus in Dallas Turner, but you know, it's hard for me to not watch a verse play and, and feel a pang of longing. That's that's for sure. But you're right about the, the run offense. And there are multiple times in those tight spots where, you know, I wish O'Connell would just run five sneaks in a row because his quarterback is so, so tall. Right. And also,

you know, I think that the other thing is that Kevin's timeout usage at the end of first halves has been very, very curious lately. And I hope that he corrects that as well. That's another one where when he wins so many one score games and has so many game winning drives from his quarterbacks and all those things, I think that he's got to be as far as a late game play caller way, way, way above average. And as far as maybe staying calm and keeping his quarterback calm and all those things. every so often where you leave the team out there to try to run up to the line of scrimmage and create some sort of tempo thing and then you end up running 30 seconds off of the clock like he did i think that was the first half in green bay right it is it is little things like that that in a playoff game if you botch that or even the kicker kicking it out of bounds and then immediately giving up three points, it's like these things end up determining games and marginal stuff.

Yeah, there's there is a lot of the marginal stuff that I look at with this team and go, you know, some of the game management, some of the red zone stuff, some of the kicking, some of the that's. And I'm sure the los angeles rams have a long list of things like this too but if we're trying to kind of pick apart some of these little areas that could prove costly if they aren't sharp on them i think that they've got a number of them yeah and i think there's also the fact that um you know we you have mentioned a lot of times um aaron jones's performance at the end of Green Bay season last season right where he went he went 100 yards five games in a row and was dominant was breaking big plays I do not believe he's that player right now he's not

getting the support from his offensive line that he should but you know we needed a long run last week it came from cam Akers it didn't come from Aaron Jones. And I don't expect that. I don't expect him to suddenly start busting off 40 and 50-yard runs now that we're in the playoffs. I just don't. I think – and part of that is the offensive line not quite holding up at the end of the bargain. But also, I do think that there's a bit of burst loss on him.

So whether or not we can get a few burst plays out of him or Akers, or maybe, you know, a random Ty Chandler carry, I think that would go a long way because all of the opportunities that presented themselves against the Lions, we made for ourselves in certain ways. If we make those opportunities again, I think we win the game. I think they will capitalize on those opportunities.

But you have to make them first. The offensive line does have to find a way to create some run plays that are successful. I thought they did so in one of the drives where Darnold hits against Detroit. Darnold hits a pass to Jalen Naylor and they run like two, three straight times and get big chunks that got them down into the red zone. So it's been intermittent when it comes to the offensive line doing enough for Aaron Jones, but nowhere near enough to scare anybody, especially a team that is really dominant on the defensive line. And there were a

few things talk about shaking the confidence. I felt like I was less confidence shaken in Sam Darnold bouncing back that I was in Blake Brandel or even Cam Robinson, who they seem to find a way to get on an Island against the Darius Smith and Joss Paschal and ran by him. He ended up giving up nine pressures in the game. Eight came from the guard, which we haven't seen since like Dakota Dozier days. And Garrett Bradbury remains Garrett Bradbury. So same guy as always. And it's, it just seemed that they had answers for the offensive line to confuse them and then create the one-on-ones that they were looking for. And as much as Cam Robinson has played a role in saving the season, I think after Derisaw got hurt,

if he's island out there with Jared verse, it's not going to be a good situation for them. It's not. And I think that's where play design comes in because, um, you know, this is a standard among fans, but I'm not seeing a ton of delays and draws in the arsenal from Kevin O'Connell. And that is weird to me for a team that thrives on play action, especially deep shots, because if you do play action, you're going to draw the linebackers in. But if you just do a straight drop back, they're going to float out a little bit farther from the line of scrimmage,

and that's a good time to do a delayed handoff, especially to someone like Jones, who thrives so much in finding open space. He's very, very good at that. And you can do that if you've allowed the pass rush to come forward and spread out around the pocket, then you've made holes without having to sort of bulldoze people out of the way because you don't necessarily have road graders up front.

So I'd like to see more of that. And I thought that I think because KO had to get conservative with his play calling late in the Detroit game, we saw some of that, but it wasn't like, it wasn't advantageous running. It wasn't, it wasn't, you know, it wasn't where the score zero, zero, the score is very close and you're doing this to keep them uncertain, you know, keep a defense uncertain. You're just doing it. You know, we were running in that, in those moments for, as a matter of survival. And, and we have to do those things earlier in the matchup

rather than rather than later because then you know your intentions become a lot more obvious uh sticking with the offensive side i am confident that tj hawkinson will have a better football game and justin jefferson especially since the weakness of the Rams is their coverage unit. I think that the Detroit Lions had the right type of answer for the Vikings, which was to just grab Justin Jefferson the entire time, just hit TJ Hawkinson every single time he was coming off the line of scrimmage, which I haven't seen too many teams successfully do. I think the last team that successfully did it was probably the jets.

And maybe that threw off a little bit of the timing for Sam Darnold. Sometimes they just blitz the out of them. Right. I mean, they just, they just kept coming and coming and coming. And we like, first of all, the old line couldn't handle it, but there were not a ton of times when we were able to capitalize on it. And I have to think, again, I do have the confidence that the coaching staff and the players are going to seize on that. And if the Rams decide to go zero blitz over and over again, you're going to see the ball come out faster and deeper. You know, I'm hoping for clicks, quick slants, you know, double moves,

all that fun stuff. Well, that was the odd thing to me about the way they handled it. And this is, I guess, boom or bust of a single game is that Sam Darnold entered the Lions game with the top passer rating against the Blitz this year in the entire NFL. And then all of a sudden things weren't going the same way. But I think that it does become a storyline of the referees and how many penalties they're willing to call because the lions really deployed the strategy of daring them on sunday night football in front of 28 million people to throw them flags and they threw two of them i think but probably could have thrown seven or eight. They just weren't going to do that.

Right. And that was a, that was a crew that had an itchy trigger finger too. So I think we were all sort of anticipating that they would, that they would throw the flags that Justin usually gets and he didn't get them. So then I think, I think also the team was like, Hey, wait, turn those machines back on. We wear the flags. Let's go. I also think that you could see in Justin Jefferson kind of a frustration that, I mean,

every week he's frustrated by getting grabbed and hit and so forth, but a frustration that we haven't seen from him really all year long about that. And even after the game in the locker room, he said that he felt like there could have been many more penalties called and not in a whiny way, just in a matter of fact, that was probably it. How do you think that the Rams are going to try to handle Justin Jefferson? I think they'll hit the crap out of them. Like, I think that's it's clear. You you.

You you you play press coverage on them. You you you you you hit him as much as you can at the line of scrimmage, and then you have your safety back there to back you up. That's that Justin can beat and has beaten many times in his career. I can't control whether or not a defense is going to play out of its mind because the thing about the Lions game was that the Lions defense, irrespective of Aaron Glenn's design and Chris Collinsworth playing his agent and trying to get him a head coaching job. That's all great.

But those players just played brilliant football and, you know, tip of the cap and all that stuff. It is unlikely that the Rams will do that because they are not, not only do they not have similar personnel, I said, even though the lines were depleted, but also because it's a, it's just not the same circumstance. Like with Detroit, it was there at home.

They're playing for the first, their first number one seed in their team history. It's the best season they've ever had. It's the best chance to go to the Superbowl they've ever had. That crowd was out of its mind. And it was just sort of like I think it was a situation that this team the Vikings will not find themselves in unless they have to go back to Detroit two or three weeks from now that is true and do you think that there's something too because i tend to uh having seen that having gone through that and being able to deal with it better the next time i think that all of these

guys have played in environments that are raucous and so forth but i don't know how many times sam darnold had taken a snap since his usc days with so much on the line like that. And not only that, but also in a noise environment. And they were thrown off a little bit in Seattle by that. But I would say they won that game, though. I mean, he made the big boy throw that won that game, though. And they won. Also, they won on Monday night against Chicago.

And I know Chicago blows, but like that was national spotlight. They were still, it was still, they had to win that game if they wanted to stay in the conversation for the top seed. So, you know, every game that they, because Detroit has played so well, every game going into that final Detroit game was a big stakes game and Sam performed. So, you know, that gives me confidence going into this game. It doesn't make me a hundred percent confident because I saw what I saw, but you know, those are, you know, uh, you know, I, I'm not going to throw the baby out with the bath water after a single game. I think that it is a reflex among certain Vikings fans to do that,

but I'm not going to do that. All right. How about on the defensive side? I think they played for about three quarters of that game or two and a half quarters, as well as anyone has ever played against this Detroit lions team. And when I look at Los Angeles, it's weird because when you're trying to find on paper, well, where are they scary on paper, on offense? And the answer is nowhere really. I mean, they're running back find on paper, well, where are they scary on paper on offense? And the answer is nowhere really. I mean, they're running back has a lot of yards, but yards per carry. He's very men. Their top wide receiver is as good as it gets, but their passing game is not elite for the entire season. Stafford has his moments, but his numbers do not set your hair on fire. And yet from what we saw of stafford against the vikings

in los angeles that does give you a little bit of pause at the same time they didn't know pukin was going to play yeah that was the big thing and they didn't have blake cashman so those are two factors yeah i mean florist admitted this week he said we weren't we didn't know that pukin nua was going to play that took us by surprise and so my one of my first reactions was like really like shouldn't you have planned for that uh you know that's sort of the basic fan reaction but also you know going forward okay now you know so now you know what to do so I have more confidence to be better prepared for Nakua and also all uh for Kyron Williams because I know

you just said that you know Williams is sort of like an okay uh you know yards per carry guy but like he he ran well against us last time um so the reason that the Rams beat us was because that their offense could do whatever they want against our defense it was our defense's worst game of the year uh I think by a considerable margin too, even when you factor in the fourth quarter against Detroit. They could run it hard with Kyron Williams. And then Stafford, we couldn't get home to Stafford, and Stafford was on point with just about every throw as a result.

So I think that the coverage on Nakua will be better, and I think that the run defense on Kyron will be better just as it was on Jameer Gibbs at the beginning of the Detroit game. So then the question is, are you going to get Canton Stafford and are we going to be able to get to Stafford before he can do that or not? Folks, it's a wonderful time of year in football and there's a perfect dad hack that I want

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this Herculean quarterback when they would go nine and seven or something like that. And he would get sacked a million times. And, but the thing is that players can change. And what I've seen from Stafford over the years, since he got to Los Angeles is he has been a great decision maker since he's been there. And that's where it all comes together with the physical skill, but he is not just throwing the ball to you. He has still some turnover worthy plays as always, but he's really reduced his sack rate, which was a huge problem for him earlier in his career. He gets rid of the ball quickly. They work the short game and he's willing to do it and not just wanting to whip the ball down the field all the time.

I think that makes him a dangerous quarterback because now he will be patient against this Vikings defense. And I think that that's been kind of the number one skill. If you can do against the Vikings defense, you could survive against them is don't turn the ball over. Don't take sacks against them, which they're two of the best in the league at taking it away and getting sacks. If you can avoid those things, you could stay on the field and be difficult. But I'm curious what you think just in general of Matthew Stafford. I mean, I think he's a hall of famer and i thought that ever i think really since i think like last year i remember he came when he went from uh detroit to la you know i'd seen enough

of them as a lion to be like okay well he's you know he's a very very good prolific quarterback and you know he's the best you know modern lions quarterback and all that stuff but that doesn't mean dick and whatever but you know it it turned out that he is one of those rare quarterbacks that has all the talent in the world, but also the resourcefulness to use it. And that is actually something that I had seen out of Sam Darnold over December, where he was able to make chicken salad out of chicken.

That's what the best quarterbacks do, and that's how Donovan was performing. So I was surprised to see him not be able to do that against Detroit. And there are times when Stafford, you know, he will look like that, you know, that resourceful behemoth that I think he looks like most of the time. But then there are games where he looks like he's playing drunk. And I really, I don't have a good handle on when that will be. I don't think Matthew Stafford has a good handle on when that will be.

And so, you know, it's really, you're going into this, you know, it's not all that different from how I have personally approached the season, which is just, you know, it's, it's found money, take every game as it comes, you know, go want to know this week and all that stuff.

I think it's, again, I, I am not, I, I have managed to flush the Detroit game. It took a few, it took a few flushes to get it down,

like to get down the toilet, but I flushed it. And I think they'll be able to do that too. And if they can, then they'll be sort of themselves. And the Rams will either be, you know, the seven and two team that they've been for quite, you know, that they've been over the past couple of months, or there'll be just a little bit underwhelming and inconsistent. And if they're that team, then we beat the piss out of them.

One more thing, and then I want to know the prediction. But what are you irrationally focused on in this game? Because last week I asked Andrew Kramer that of the Star Tribune, and I said I was irrationally focused on the referees and the grabbing and all that stuff. And that ended up coming to fruition. I think I may have mentioned the kicker as well, which also ended up turning out to be a thing. Is there something in this game that you are kind of obsessed with going into it as being a potential deciding factor?

I mean, Darnold's the first thing, but that's too obvious. I think that, you know, one of the smaller things that I've been thinking about is our punt return unit, because obviously we have Brandon Powell back there and he's the guy who beat us when he was playing for the Rams a few years ago, right? During that Super Bowl season. And he has been basically a replacement-level punt returner for us. I like having him back there because he is – I'm pretty confident that he can field the ball cleanly. He hasn't always done that, but most of the time he's been able to do that.

But after that, nothing really happens, right? So I think that if we can go into the playoffs getting some sort of – if we can find some sort of proverbial edge on special teams, and that's not just kicking, right? Because, you know, Will Reichert, if he has to kick three field goals this week and they're all from like within 50 yards, I think he can nail those. I'm not really all that worried about that. Like I don't – like if he misses a kick, I think he can nail those. I'm not really all that worried about that. Like, I don't, like, if he misses a kick,

I don't instantly, I don't instantly, I'm like, oh my God, voodoo. Like, oh, black, oh, we're cursed. Like, whatever. He missed some kicks. Kickers do that. But, you know, punt blocks, you know, punt, you know, good punt returns.

You know, he doesn't have to house it, but, you know, if you can return a punt to midfield and we can capitalize on that that's a big deal so those that that's sticking out in my mind and then also the fourth downs because you know they said over and over again on Sunday night you know Dan Campbell was the guy who went for it the most on fourth down Kevin O'Connell was the guy who went for it the least and I don't tend to think of o'connell as conservative mostly because he's bombs away with the play calling but um you know the times that he has gone for it over the course of the season i don't think i've ever had a beef with it i don't think i've been like oh

that's stupid but like i remember he went for it in the beat close to the beginning i believe it's the bears game right where it was fork down, it was close to midfield, might have been on our side of the field, or it was between their 50 and 40, right? And he was like, screw it, let's just keep going, because it was fourth and three, and converted on a pass to Jefferson and then go on and win the game. So I'd like to see more of that from him.

I'll be very curious about his, how much he dials up the aggression. Um, and if he bases that on just last week on facing the Rams or just on, you know, just sort of his basic feeling about the team in general. Cause when he says, I love this team, first of all, I love it when he does that. But second of all, second of all, I believe it when he says it and so if he coaches like he is confident and he believes in them and they believe in each other then i think that the result will take care of itself um but i'm going to need to see that manifested in how he manages this game also i would like him to not holster any more timeouts until they're 20 seconds left and a half yeah the fourth down thing i think is a little bit

product of circumstance they've been winning i think so too yeah i don't think he's afraid of it i think that there just hasn't been because i was trying to think like how many that's why it actually surprised me that they didn't go for it how many fourth downs were there in that in this entire season where i went oh come on ke on, Kevin, you can't punt that. I can't think of too many because they were always trying to protect leads throughout the season. I believe that they led for more minutes, more offensive plays than anybody else in the entire NFL this year. They played from ahead. So you have to factor that in. It's not just the most conservative coach versus the most aggressive. So I think that he will be aggressive, but I just, I want to see how shook they were by the Rams game.

I mean, this is a bunch of professional players who have been around for a long time. It's one of the most veteran teams in the league. So I don't expect them to be, but if you come out and go three and out on your first drive, like, what does it look like because remember last year cd lamb and dac prescott in that first drive against the packers they went three and out and they're yelling at each other on the sideline and you thought this game might be over already with those two not being able to get on the same page so how do you how do you start the game how do you start the game? I think even the first drive from both teams,

normally if a team scores a touchdown, it's seven, nothing other team. And okay, well, off we go for a long day of football, but this one might be a little, here we go again from what happened with the Detroit lions. I think that's one of mine is just who starts the game better. Because if you get ahead of the Rams, I do think they're not built super well to just come back against you, even with

Stafford, but they have one main weapon, Cooper cup, not much of a factor anymore. I just feel like getting ahead of them early is probably one of the biggest things in this game. What are you already? Oh, sorry. I was just going to go ahead. Yeah, go ahead. Well, I'm similar to you in feeling that way, but it's I always have it in my head about the first possession of the second half, not the first half, because we did the right thing in Detroit in deferring. And then we got the ball and then Cam Akers broke off that huge run at the beginning of

the second half. And like when you get that good drive at the beginning of a second half, then in my mind, it gives you a chance to really set the terms of how the rest of the game will go. And the fact that we didn't score on that drive was really, really, really painful because those are opportunities, again, that the Vikings have consistently taken advantage of all through this season. And they didn't this time. So if they defer, and Kevin's really good about deferring. I like that he's not like, we'll take the ball to start because we want to set the tone.

Like, that's always so stupid. Like, get the fucking bonus possession in the second half, right? You know, if they defer and then, or even if they don't, even if they lose the toss and they have to go second, if they don't go three and out in that first drive of the second half, because that was a Kirk specialty, then I will be pleased. What's your feeling for prediction on this game? So I made a policy this postseason to not pick games. Like, for Defector, like, I picked all the games,

but then I had my colleague Barry Picheski pick this game. And I said, look, I won't get mad at you no matter who you pick. He's like, okay, well, I picked the Rams. And I was like, screw you, buddy. But I was like, okay, fine. Because I know why I think most people are going to pick the Rams, because they're getting the points and they're at home. And because they just saw how the Vikings played a week ago.

They saw the Vikings at their absolute worst. So I'm inclined not to want to pick the game. I will tell you, though, I am quietly confident. In terms of personnel, I know that we have the better personnel. In terms of coaching, I know that we have the better personnel. In terms of coaching, I know that we have one of the best coaches that we've ever had. He's going up against a guy who knows him all too well, and you got to think that that kind of factored into the last loss to the Rams. But I am confident in the team and the coaching.

I'm confident that they can win this game. I'm not going to guarantee anything, but if you were going to ask me to pick the coaching, I'm confident that they can win this game. I'm not going to guarantee anything, but if you were going to ask me to pick the game, and again, I'm not picking it, but if I were hypothetically going to pick the game, I would say we win 30 to 20. But that's not your pick. That's not my pick, though.

That's not my pick. That's not on the record. I never said that. I never said that, and I disavavow that pick entirely especially if we lose if we lose then i i never made that pick then you definitely never made that pick okay i got no i got it i think i've got we've got the right framing um before you go i would be curious to know your favorite viking playoff game that you ever watched? Did you have one where it's your top Viking playoff memory? I can't believe that my memories on the playoffs are so...

Okay, so there's an obvious one, right? I mean, the most obvious one. You know, the most obvious answer is also the clearest answer, which is the dig sketch, answer which is uh the the dig sketch right that's the minneapolis miracles top dog uh the one that i liked prior to that was 2009 prior to the nsc title game uh dallas came into town and we beat the unholy and i love a good playoff route especially when we're not on the wrong end of it. That's been very nice because I'm a guy who I'm not old enough to have seen this team win the NFC, and that's very annoying.

So I'm the Vikings fan who's like, look, I'd just like to see them lose a Super Bowl. I would just like to see them go to the Super Bowl even if they lose it. So any time where they have dominated in the playoffs, I've been pretty happy. But, you know, I also have memories of, you know, the NFC Championship game failures or, like, a really crummy wild card loss to Washington in the Dennis Green era where they just, like, they lost 20-3 or some horrible shit like that.

So I'm, I'm hoping for more, more good memories going forward. I think I'm going to get them. I really do believe in Kevin and crazy. And by the way, I don't really want to go anywhere. Can we keep talking about like individual players and matchups and stuff?

Sure. If you, I mean, if you want to keep talking about football, well, we get to keep talking. I do want to talk about football. Cause what do you want to keep talking about football, well, we get to keep talking. I do want to talk about football. What do you want to talk about?

What football? Okay, I got a question for you. Okay. I guess, well, I don't know if I can ask you this because you're a journalist and not a fan. I'll figure it out. Are you hoping that the Packers upset Philly so that, A, we don't have to go to Philly,

but then also if Washington beats Tampa, then hey, presto, the Vikings are hosting a home playoff game in the divisional round, which is no small thing. So I have been thinking a lot about this, about the scenario where they go to Philadelphia instead of Detroit and whether that would be better for them. And I have, uh, results are inconclusive on that, which would be, I think that's if what, if Tampa Bay wins and Philadelphia wins, then the bike, no, I'm sorry. Washington wins and Philadelphia wins. Then the Vikings go to Philly, right? Right. I've got that right. And Philadelphia has a lot of the things that the Vikings do not want any part of,

which is the nastiest defensive line. They also cover man-to-man extremely well, as I was reading Doug Farrar this morning of USA Today when he was talking about that. And I think that building, that aura, that place is something that you don't want much of. At the same time, Jared Goff has a solution to this Vikings defense.

I don't know that that's going to be the case for Jalen Hurts, who actually could not pass the ball last year against the Vikings defense. It threw an interception to Theo Jackson. And I know they ran that whole game. The Vikings have a much better run defense now than they did last year, but Hertz did not pick apart that defense very well at all. And I think I would always rather take the lesser passer to play against if the teams are equally strong, which I think that Philly and

the Detroit lions are, especially now that we know Detroit can get after, uh, you know, Sam Darnold. So that's, that's a tricky one. That's a tricky one. I mean, there's a couple of things. One is that first of all, I want to dispute that the golf figured us out because for the first half of that game on Sunday night, that was not true. He was bad, and we made him pay for his mistakes. A couple of interceptions. We just didn't capitalize on it. We capitalized on it. That second half goes differently.

Jameer Gibson does not score four touchdowns going away. It doesn't happen. So I'm not that scared of Goff. Like, I respect Goff, but I think that he can be had. As for Hertz, I think you're correct. He is not a particularly gifted passer on shorter intermediate routes, and that can be taken advantage of. However, we go to Philly.

Well, you know exactly how much bullshit us fans are going to bring to that game, right? And you also know, like, how Philly fans are going to bring to that game, right? And you also know how Philly fans are going to be about. I'm going to have 38-7 in my feed just on an infinite scroll for the entire week, and it'll be so annoying. It'll be just the most annoying thing ever. And I think that's the thing now is that I'm less traumatized by poor Vikings' performances than I am just deeply irritated by them, which I guess represents personal growth on my part.

But it doesn't make – I don't like being irritated, so I don't want that. I still remain of the mind that bring them all on. Like you're going to have to beat the big boys sometime, whether it's on your turf or theirs, You're going to have to do it because you can't just back into a Super Bowl. Even if you're Colts-era Peyton Manning, you don't automatically

get to fall into it. You have to beat the big boys and you got to play like one. I've seen this team do that and that's what it's going to take. Go ahead. I don't want to stoop to rooting for Green Bay anyway. So go ahead. Have Philly win. Have all the big boys win and let's go and let's beat them. Because every unit of this team, of this Vikings team, has Pro Bowl talent. Every room, right? And I'm counting the line as one room, by the way. I'm not counting the interior line as one room, right? And what that means is that you will not be outmatched if you are on point.

And I expect them to be on point. And I look forward to, this has been a season where I've just been very, very excited to watch them. We cannot get to game day fast enough. That hasn't always been true in other Vikings years because, you know, like last year, like, you know, they sucked. They didn't have a quarterback, and they, you know, it just fell apart at the end.

This is different. This is, I still have a great deal of joy and enthusiasm for this team and for the players, you know? Like, I loved Jordan Addison coming alive at the end of the season. I still want Hawkinson to get his touchdown and to get sort of his defining because he's had good games since coming back, but he hasn't had that game where he defines it. He hasn't been the main character of a game yet.

I'd like to see that happen. I'd like to see Justin have like a 200-yard game, and I think he's capable of that. Like I think he's capable of the same playoff run that Larry Fitzgerald had back in 2008. Like I think he's that kind of player. That's the sort of thing I'd like to see. I'd like to see maybe if Aaron Jones can find his burst,

particularly on the plays that we talked about earlier. And then defensively, you know, that last game that we had against the Rams, that was on four days rest. They were just fricking exhausted because they had slugged it out with the That last game that we had against the Rams, that was on four days rest. They were just freaking exhausted because they had slugged it out with the Lions. And the game that I thought was much more indicative of the matchup between us and Detroit,

of how we match up with Detroit, I thought that was a much more accurate depiction of us versus them. But the fact that that was a heavyweight fight, and then we only have four days to prepare and we don't prepare for Puka Nakua and then we have to get on a plane to Los Angeles. I think all of that factored in. I think all of that is the reason that the Rams offense could do whatever it wanted in that game. I don't think that that will happen again.

I'm excited to see if our pass rush can get home and then make turnovers because when Ivan Pace made that pick last week, I made some really odd sounds, just really awkward and uncomfortable for anyone who happened to hear them. Well, just to address all the potential permutations of what could happen if the Vikings win here. And I do agree that the extra day is probably more helpful for the Vikings.

Well, the Rams were going to be well-rested anyway, but playing this on Monday is helpful. They were coming off a bye. Yeah. Right. So there is a scenario, if I'm not mistaken, where the Bucs win and also the Packers win, and then the Vikings go to play Tampa Bay because the

Packers would have to play against the Detroit lions, right? That to me is the best scenario. That is the one to root for is other than the home. I mean, of course, both teams pulling upsets and you get to play at home would be the absolute best against Washington. But the second best is going to play a pretty flawed Tampa Bay team and with a very key marker to what they do, which is turn the ball over. The Vikings are the best at taking it away, play a team that's reckless with the football, and a quarterback that can be reckless with the football in Tampa Bay,

which is not a terrifying place to go play by any means. Yeah, but you can bake her on a heater, man. You know, you never know, man, you do never know. That's why we enjoy the games. What else you got for,

uh, for the playoffs? I mean, there's a lot of, there's a lot of intriguing matchups here. Uh, I don't know that, uh,

in the AFC side, there's anything other than like these. So several teams should very clearly win these games, Buffalo, Baltimore. And I think the chart, those games are kind of crappy. Yeah. Opinion. The NFC games, I think are much, are much more interesting.

It's weird that they're, you have the NFC first and then the, or the AFC first and the AFC last, I guess they, that's how they do it. But that's, that's a bit odd to me. I, you know, I, I will like,. I will like, you watch these games and even if the Vikings aren't in them, you sort of keep those sort of hypothetical matchups against the Vikings in mind when you're watching these games.

And so I think about how we would match up against Buffalo or Kansas City, or less daydreaming, but how do we match up against Buffalo or Kansas City or, you know, or, you know, less daydreaming, but, you know, how we, how do we match up against Micah Evans in the box? How do we match up against Jaden Daniels and the commanders? I think all of those, all of those questions are, are interesting. And I'm, I'm curious to see how we would answer them if we had to, if we had to answer them.

But I, you know, for the moment, I'm just focusing on, you know, I'm focusing on, on the Rams because I, this has been one of the strongest line of scrimmage Vikings teams that I've, we've had in a while, particularly on defense. And we lost the Rams game because we lost to the line of scrimmage last time. And I'd like to see if we can correct that. Cause I think if, if you see us perform at our expected level and actually like cover the spread and win this game convincingly, I think that changes the narrative.

I don't like using that word, but I think it changes the narrative in all the exact same, but in all of the opposite ways that the Detroit game changed the narrative for us, right? Because the Detroit game may very easy for people to say, Oh, well they're frauds.

And you know, like, Oh Sam and all that stuff, which like, look, it's very nice that Sam versus JJ thing just gets solved for me. And I don't have to like worry about it and argue with you in the off season about it. But, uh, you know, I, I, I don't want that to be this team because I would prefer to

enjoy this year as much as I possibly can. That's probably been, uh, my biggest frustration throughout this season covering the team is that there's so much focus from the national media, especially they can't seem to talk about the Vikings in anyams by pff 30th in pass blocking and that could certainly be a factor for the vikings getting after matthew stafford and making some game changing plays there yeah i don't want it to be one of those games where there's a there's a clear mismatch and yet we somehow lose it because like the other team suddenly becomes magic like that's what happened against detroit last week i don't want that to happen. That's annoying. But as far as the Darnold and McCarthy thing, let's, let's bury this in the back end of this podcast.

Do you have a take on that? You know, if you'd asked me after the Packers game, I would have said, Oh, okay. They'll, they'll tag them and they'll keep both.

And I would've been perfectly fine with that. I still think, I still think that Sam Darnold's fate lies entirely in Sam Darnold's hands. And I mean that two ways. One is obviously how he plays going forward in this game and then any games that happen to come if we win, whatever subsequent playoff games there are. And then also what he wants, right?

Like say we get to the end of the season and like the Rams say, you know what? You know, Stafford's probably, you know, only got one, you know, Stafford, maybe Matthew Stafford wants to retire at the end of this year. I don't, I don't know. We'd like you, like if there's an organization

that is not the Jets or Giants that courts Sam and he knows that they have their shit together in ways that he knows the Vikings have their shit together, then he's a free agent. He has, he's going to have some, you know, he, it's going to be up to him in certain ways because yes, we can tag him, but you don't want to tag a player who ends up being really pissed off, especially if that player is your quarterback, right? You can tag T Higgins and T Higgins will make, you know, great, you know, catches for you just so he can get out of there. Right. But I think it's a little bit different with Sam. And so I, I, I'm still basing it on what's going to happen because this is a case where I trust all of those people, Sam Donald included, to make that decision instead of me. I have a very, very strong feeling that J.J. McCarthy will be excellent.

And also, if they pick J they pick JJ after the season that Sam has had, then they really know something that we don't. They really know like, okay, this is no bullshit. This is the guy who, everyone's already saying, okay, JJ would have been the number one pick in this draft, right? This coming draft, which is absolutely true because this quarterback class is crap. I think that if, if they make that choice, then I will be extremely confident in them. But if you asked me right now, I would say,

okay, we'll just keep both because you kind of can. And you know, I I'm seeing the holes in the roster. I still think that they can be patched. And maybe Sam is not the sort of guy who is going to want everything guaranteed right up front to you right away. Right. Like he he may be a bit more amenable than that. I'm not asking him to play for 10 million dollars again. He's not going to do that. He's not an idiot.

But the idea that he would be like, OK, we can structure this contract how you want. So you can get the guard who's not going to get me killed. Right. Like I think that that I think he's sort of that kind of guy so my basic answer which again is it's it's almost as unsatisfactory as my non-pick of the game is that i am i'm happy with whatever direction they go in because i can afford to be when i know that my team's leadership is so sound you know if this were the jets making that decision i don this were the Jets making that decision, I don't trust the Jets to make that decision. The Jets, they suck, right?

But we have a GM in Kwesi and a head coach in Kevin who not only know what they're doing, but they know each other. I think it took them years to get to that place, right? But I think that they now work in pretty good harmony. And I think that would remain true even if Grigson and Flores leave. And I'm more inclined to think that Flores will leave

now that he's actually getting interviews as opposed to last year when he got none of them. So, you know, he's, I still think that regardless of what happens in terms of churn on the coaching staff or even in the front office after this, that we'll be in a good spot to make that decision. Because again, it's not about who you pick or where you pick them. It's about who's doing the picking. And we have really reliable people on that end. And that's good. But I do want to say that watching Sam this season has been so much fun

because he's just been bombs away. And like aesthetically, I don't think you can ask for a more fun Vikings team than this one. There's a reason that your boy Brian Murphy was comparing him to 98 because, you know, long bombs, chicks dig the long ball and all that stuff. Like it has been that sort of year. And that's, you know, that's something that I will, regardless of what happens against the Rams, it's something that I'm going to keep with me just as I kept all the cool stuff that happened in 2022 with me, even though we, you know, we blew it against the giants.

With your point about the organizational competence, this is where I get the most pushback from people, but I will stand my ground on it, which is if they do keep Sam Darnold, I think there's some sort of fear that the franchise will collapse into one of the Great Lakes or something. And I think that they've really proven that they can work around

certain challenges, including $70 million of dead cap for this season, and that they've got plans for every potential outcome. I mean, I think when- Yeah, because this team, this roster is still cap strapped. We're still carrying Kirk's number on the books. So it's like, this roster is not at full fiduciary strength. And if you're paying Sam Darnold to play for you next year, you are getting your money's worth. I mean, he might turn to shit. I don't think that's what would happen. But the point being that you're spending money on things you have

rather than things you used to have. Right. And they can figure these things out in a short term and then give it more time to figure out where J.J. McCarthy is. Because I think when we talk about what J.J. McCarthy is going to be, I have a lot of confidence as well. Having seen him during training camp and during the preseason game. A lot of confidence that he could be a really good quarterback, but he has not played any real football. And he's thrown about 400 passes since he became an adult. I mean, you're really having to project a lot there. whereas another year as a backup and having a full year of actual practices and training camp at preseason will give you a much better sense of where he stands. I've always thought that

just throwing it all on his shoulders was a really tough ask. It's not about JJ versus Darnold to me. It's just the, there's a lot of, I think, risks involved with asking him to be everything as the franchise quarterback after he missed an entire year this year. Yeah, that's the other thing is that, you know, actually I'm going to give you a more satisfying answer, which is please keep both because of health. We don't know. I think that he will, I think that J.J. will recover

from his meniscus tear fully, but you could tear it again, right? Or you saw Darnold limping at the end of that Detroit game. I don't know, you know, I don't know how many like fractured bones he's got floating around in his body right now, right? That's all the stuff that comes out after the season where you're like, oh yeah, he played with a dislocated clavicle

and a bone in his throat. Like you don't know that stuff until after the fact. But it's a 17-game season. We've already been f***ed over a year ago by losing a quarterback. If you can have a situation where you actually do have two quarterbacks, and it's not the proverbial, if you have two quarterbacks, you have no quarterback situation. If you have two viable quarterbacks, and one's a veteran who just had an MVP caliber season

and one's one of the most promising prospects that you could have, then you can keep both. Keep both. Do it. It's a long season, man. Yeah, I agree with that. I think people get a little too obsessed too with the uh rookie contract where it's not only is it four years but also if the player is likable and you want to extend him

then for the first two years of that extension it'll be reasonable cap hits and then by then amazon has bought the league and the salary cap is eight billion dollars oh And it's like, when, once you start laying this whole thing out on, on paper and how it would actually affect them, you, you end up coming to the conclusion like, Oh, well, it probably won't. It probably won't in any way that we think. Uh, and I also feel like you just, if you're conflating what happened with the Kirk era to this, it's a totally, totally, totally different story. Uh, one, because the quarterback was not as good as Sam Darnold has been this year, the playmaking, the scrambling, the deep passing, all that sort of stuff. That's number one, uh, 14 wins, uh, and a hundred, you know, point differential and all that stuff. But also, uh, they did have two seasons

with Kirk on the books where they did keep everybody and they, and they didn't, and they should have won and they should have been better. They had the 17 team together and it just didn't work out. It was really only that they extended cousins in a time where the rest of the roster needed a complete rebuild. I don't think that that's the case where they stand right now. So they feel, they still feel like a fresh team and that's very, that's what's been so nice about this year. Right. It feels like the future remains bright for this team. Uh, and if you have two really good quarterbacks, then you just have two really good quarterbacks. Um, shout out to john madden though i do love him so anyway uh okay how about this one more question for you oh you're the one that asked for more football

talk so since i'm since i said john madden if you were to go back in the history of football of you watching football and grab two broadcasters that are alive for this vikings Vikings Rams game for you to watch it whom would you place in the booth who you were leading the witness man because like I'm gonna pick somewhere on that right like that's just also because it's not against Green Bay or San Francisco because Madden like he was like like Collinsworth is the same way but Madden was better but Madden had crushes and he had a lot of crushes on the Packers and you know you know I appreciate John Madden a lot more than I did

back when he was active because back when he was active I was very annoyed when he was like there goes Frankie Winters bag of donuts and I was like oh I don't care about Frank Winters go to hell I think he liked any team that played on natural grass more than one that played

on turf, which I get. But now we're playing the Rams on turf and the Rams are obviously an old franchise, but they're also a new one in weird ways. So I don't think I would get as much of the old man

salivating over Tutu Atwell or whatever. I think I would get as much of, of the old man salivating over to, to Atwell or whatever. I think we will get equal amounts of, of spittle our, our way. And I, I'd, I'd be fine with that.

Otherwise give me uncle Vern. I miss uncle Vern. Yeah. Yeah. I was going to say if, if it's not Madden, then Mike Patrick, Joe Theismann and Paul.

Oh, Oh my God. Shoot me dead. I live in Washington, and Paul- No! Oh, my God. Shoot me dead. I live in Washington, by the way. I'll sometimes hear Joe Theismann's voice still against my will, and it's just- It's physically painful to hear the man speak. Just the worst.

Those guys had so much energy. I love that broadcast. Like Paul McGuire, just no brain you talk about tough these guys are tough oh please oh man save me uh all right well uh drew this has been great people can read you at defector and uh maybe you'll pick some football games over at Vector other than this one. Yeah, no, no, no. I'm now even more jazzed for this game. I'm super pumped up.

I'm going to sing the Vikings song to lead us out. But I also do want to give my best to LA. I love that city, and I want everyone there to be safe. Not just the property. I want the people to be safe, and I want them to be happy. And people have asked about my – I have family out there. Um, they live in the Valley. So at the moment, um, no, no issues for them, but, uh, it's Los Angeles. We all have some tie to it. It affects all of us. And you know what, um, you know, not to get too macro about it, but this is something that's going to affect all of us going forward. It's not be the last time this

happens. So, you know, just say your prayers and get ready to help. Get ready to fetch some water and buckets and all that stuff. In the meantime, I hope we beat the shit out of the Rams. Scall my kings, I'll win the game. Scall my kings, I'll hire your name. Yeah.

Thanks, Drew. How was that? Was that fun?