Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Defector's Drew Magary talks us into Vikings trading three first-round picks for Drake Maye

Episode Date: March 21, 2024

Lifelong Vikings fan Drew Magary of Defector breaks down why the Vikings' decision to look to the draft at quarterback has given him new life and talks about a scenario where the Vikings have to give up their two first-round picks this year and one next year to get Drake Maye rather than taking JJ McCarthy or waiting around for another QB. https://surfshark.deals/PURPLEINSIDER Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here. And joining the show, Drew McGarry from Defector. And I know that Drew, based on text messages, based on tweets, is through the roof about this year's offseason for the Minnesota Vikings. So, Drew, I want you to explain to me your feelings, your emotions, your thoughts over the last couple of weeks as we have transitioned in a seminal moment in Vikings history out of the Kirk Cousins era and into a new and uncharted universe of National Football League football for the Minnesota Vikings. How are you feeling, buddy? First of all, I'm just so excited to talk to you about this because you got to understand

I got nobody to talk to about the vikings i was like i don't live in minnesota anymore my family they could get half a fuck about football like the only viking they could probably name is justin jefferson and that's only because i have like nine of his jerseys and like all it says is jefferson on the back so they may not even remember what his first name is except they do hear me shouting justin anytime he makes a catch when i'm watching down the basement anyway uh when when the news broke on monday whatever two mondays ago i don't know um that kirk was not that kirk was gonna sound with atlanta which we all was one of those things where it was like, I'm pretty sure it's going to happen. I sense that it's going to happen,

but I need it to happen so that I know that I'm, I'm done with this. Cause you know, Kirk's good quarterback, you know, a professional, unless you ask him to get vaccinated, like he's like admired in the locker room, you know,

Brian O'Neill loves him. Justin loves him. And Justin appears to genuinely like him in a way that Stefan Diggs definitely didn't. So it was nice to have Kirk there, but it was never good enough. And more of the point, we have spent my entire lifetime trying to win a title with other people's quarterbacks. So Kirk, Favre, Randall Cunningham, Jim McMahon, Warren. It goes on and on and on and on.

There's never been a homegrown quarterback in my lifetime with the exception of Dante. And Dante had issues. Dante was like the fog of, or I should say sort of the sheen of memory. It filters out the bad stuff about Dante, the fact that he fumbled all the time, stuff like that. And, you know, and he didn't last. You know, he had a knee injury back when knee injuries could actually end your career.

And so the idea that we can potentially move up in the draft, and that became more pronounced on Friday when Quase quasi made the move into the first round right the idea that we can move up into the draft and get someone who will be the quarterback for a decade and be very good at it that's never happened in my lifetime and i would i can kill for that it would be so exciting and it's all I think about all the time. And the only person I ever talk to about it in this house is myself because nobody else gives a shit. So it's very nice to just be here and just say wee to you. Well, and from my perspective, it's a little bit different, obviously, because you are a lifelong Vikings fan. And for me, I dropped in in 2016 to start covering the team professionally. But I will say from my perspective,

I just have watched a malaise set over Vikings fans. When I first got here, the excitement was sky high because everyone believed that Teddy Bridgewater and the Vikings and Zimmer were going to build on what they did in 2015. And they ultimately did two years later. And then when Kirk comes to town, I think there was half the fan base who thought this is the last step. And half of the fan base who thought we just made a huge mistake and should have run it back with whoever. Should have brought, you know, Case Keenum or should have traded for Alex Smith or should have drafted Lamar Jackson or whatever number of other options they had in 2018. And I think that it went away so quickly,

the idea that a Superbowl was possible, but then it just continued to drag out year after year. Right. And I think it really took its toll because the belief was ended pretty quickly in 2018. And then for a flicker in New Orleans, it was back and then it was gone just as quick as it had started the following week in San Francisco. And then it was four straight years of never really believing in it outside of maybe one late afternoon after they beat the Buffalo Bills to go eight and one. And those hopes were quickly dashed the following week. So this to me represents the first time I can remember in a real long time where there has been a long stretch of belief that something special could come from this.

And it's just been so noticeable by the reaction of people like yourself that, yeah, is there a risk that goes along with it? Of course, major risk that goes with it. But there's also the hope that has been found here by vikings fans that just has not existed over the last few years yeah and like a lot of a lot of those people are allergic to hope right like i had i have a colleague at defector justin ellis who's also a vikings fan but he's he's a lot more uh you know guarded about it in vikings fans way and i you know i i talked to them about it when we were having drinks,

or like he had a drink and I had an A beer after popping a gummy or whatever. And he explained it to me. He was like, well, Kirk was just like, I'm seeing the same shit over and over again. I can only get so excited because six years, it's still large enough sample size. You know what you're getting,

and you know it's not going really anywhere. You're running in place. Right. And I had the, I guess the privilege, that's the wrong word, but you know, I, I live in Maryland. So I, you know, I've been tracking Kirk throughout his entire career because he started here in Washington and he was drafted, you know, everybody knows the story. He's dropping the fourth round in the same draft as RG three when he went in the first round. And I really admired when he, when, you know, when Netflix, you know, covered him in the quarterback series when he said like, yeah, my, my draft experience kind of sucked. Like that was, I liked that.

I liked that honesty. And then, you know, he goes through the motions here and he, he rises up and he becomes a very prolific, good passer for a town that desperately needed it. And for his, you know, for his, you know, his reward was Dan Snyder treating him like absolute dog shit. Right. So we get him. And it's like, I was, I was like, okay, he's the best of the four options. He's better than Case because Case will fall off. He's better than Sam Bradford because Sam Bradford's made of, like, sticks and glue, right?

And then he's better than Teddy because I have no idea. This was when Teddy had not come back from the injuries. I had no idea if he was, like, what he was going to be. I think, actually, I think Teddy's journeyman career after that, I actually do think that that's probably what he would have become because even when he took us to the playoffs in what was it, 2015, uh, like he was not a convincing franchise quarterback, even though I loved him, like I loved his demeanor, all that anyway. Um, so when we got Kirk, I knew it was the best of the four options. And I was really happy that like, I, you know, I was happy that Washington had talked themselves out of having him as their quarterback and I was really I really thought oh if we win a Super Bowl with

this guy that's hilarious like I can't wait to rub that in you know in commanders fans or you know it was a different name at the time rubbing in it in their faces. And the joke was on me, of course, because even though the Commandos have just sucked absolute shit ever since he left, we've been trapped in the exact same kind of hell that they were in, a very unique kind of hell where you're competent and you're supposed to like it, but you kind of don't. And you don't want to deal with it anymore.

And the idea that we're going to get someone like Drake May, who you can tell has the swagger, you can tell he's just like, don't give, like, that's the guy. And the idea that we would get someone like that is just very exciting to me, especially because, you know, because we have Justin, because we have Derisaw, because we have Addison, unless he gets thrown into the trade bucket. And we have – I still think O'Connell's a good coach, and I like the coaching staff, check with the floors on defense. And I think Quasey, you know, over the past two weeks has finally shown vision.

I think that's what was missing, particularly, you know, the first year because he had to extend Kirk. He kind of had to. I don't think he wanted to. He had to. And then he made the draft trade and drafted lewis scene who sucks and all that stuff and it's like okay well i need to make sure that you know i need to make sure wall street here knows what what the fuck he's doing and it was it was halfway clear last year when he jettisoned kendrick's and cook and all those guys and they were all correct moves

all of them were right right um and then he went full bore when frequency when free agency started and i was like okay i this guy knows what he's doing he's done fucking around and they're letting him do the job they're not like the wills are not staying over and being like, oh, well, we have to have Kirk for three more years because we need to win nine games a year into infinity so that we're not embarrassing because that would be bad. They're letting him take a chance. And the idea that we are poised, and I think it's going to happen. I know it's going to happen in my heart,

that we're going to make the ballsiest move in my lifetime. I can't think of a ballsier move than giving away the farm to move up to two or to three. It's going to be to three. It ain't going to be to two. To get a guy, outside of signing Brett Favre, Favre was washed by then.

It's always a flyer of a chance. It's not the full investment. And this could be a full investment. So I'm excited. Yeah, I mean, maybe the gutsiest move other than what we expect to come is drafting Randy Moss in 1998, right? Yeah.

When they didn't need a receiver, you know, and that really was. I think that was the ballsiest move they ever made. And, of course, it paid off in spades and you could say that signing kirk was because it was the fully first fully guaranteed contract but you know he was already you know that contract was already obsolete within what two years like you know like this the contract he signed with atlanta you know is what he's getting 45 million a year like that's nuts and like to watch other people talk up the falcons now they have them i'm like i'm so glad that's not my team you'll appreciate that mike clay of espn and his first projections that he put out had the atlanta falcons at nine wins

and uh finishing with the 12th best record in the league, which is that's that circle of hell that you were talking about. That's dead on it. It's like, oh, he's run by weapons now. He's got Kyle Pitts, who's never been good. Like, get the fuck out of here, man. There ain't no magic going on down there. And I'm not going to focus too much on that situation because that's someone else's problem to cover.

But, you know, when you sign Darnell Mooney or something, I'm like, is that Kendall because that's someone else's problem to cover but you know when you sign Darnell Mooney or something I'm like is that Kendall Wright that I hear there is that right it's like they're kind of doing the same sort of thing but you know the entire Kirk era to me when I think back about it I'll probably think of all the problems they weren't able to fix and like whether you know misses in the draft or the free agent money they didn't have because of cousins, because they paid Anthony Barr too much and they paid Kyle Rudolph too much. And he wasn't the only one, but it was always the left guard they couldn't fix. It was always the defensive tackle they couldn't find after Linval Joseph. It was always the shutdown corner they couldn't replace with Xavier Rhodes.

And the issue was with Kirk, you have to thread that needle. You have to hit on the cam Dantzler draft pick or Holton Hill has to become a great corner from undrafted free agency or something. And if it doesn't happen, there's no way to correct that mistake. And I think already you sort of see even in the structure of some of the contracts where Jonathan Grenard's not making much this year, but next year, you know, his cap hit goes way up because they have the space next year to be able to have a guy whose cap hit goes way up. And you can fix a problem when you lose a Daniel Hunter with an expensive answer, rather than saying Marcus Davenport has to be the answer

and hopes and dreams. So instead of flyers and, uh, well, maybe this guy will become whatever you just get a guy who already is good and you pay him that amount of money because you have it. Now, uh, one of the little games I like to play on the show, Drew is called talk me into, and I want to play with you where, uh, I ask you to talk me into something. You asked me to talk you into something. I want you to talk me into it being a good idea to trade another first round pick along with the two they own to get Drake may rather than trading the two they have to move up to four, to get JJ McCarthy.

Talk me into, even if you don't believe it, talk me into it being a better idea. That's the game. I, you don't have to believe it. In fact, that could be part of the game. No, I a thousand percent believe it talk me into it being a better idea that's the game you don't have to believe it in fact that could be no no i know i a thousand percent believe it okay well then it's a layup it seems like those are the options so talk me into it okay um to me it's not even it's not even close like of course you you do it like i want three i'm not gonna be happy

with four and i'm not sure they'd be happy with four. I know that there was a lot of scuttlebutt because they're arranging a private workout with J.J. McCarthy. But that's just due diligence, right? You have to examine the entire class. But I don't think Kwesi, who has made all these moves with confidence, you know, this past week and we can change you know he and he and kevin o'connell have made moves that you know are not the moves you make when you're terrified of getting fired they've made really like okay we're gonna be here a while this is what we want our roster to look like this is the roster we want to go forward with and i think drake may is so obviously that quarterback

because he can scoot he can get himself out of jams, he's got the arm to hit any point on the three layers of the field, right? And McCarthy, we don't know, right? He could be brilliant or he could be fucking A.J. McCarron. You don't know because he wasn't in a spot. He was playing for a dominant team. He never lost a regular season game. And he's playing the likes of Northwestern and stuff like that.

And he acquits himself nicely in a few tight spots. But not enough where it's the consistent sort of onslaught that you're going to get when you're playing in the NFL. Right? You're going to get your ass kicked a lot in the NFL. And Drake May playing for a, well, not a, but like, you know, a second rate North Carolina team proved that he could make chicken salad at chicken. And that's what you need because Kirk, like you just said, you know, Kirk is good, but he's not good enough to patch over the holes that you have elsewhere on the

roster and great quarterbacks do that. Whether it's Aaron Rodgers, Mahomes, Josh Allen, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's like, oh, well, you know, everything else is falling apart, but we have that guy so we can still win. That's the guy you need. And I feel like Drake can be that kind of guy, particularly with Kevin as his coach, whereas with McCarthy there's just far more uncertainty.

And, you know, what he does have on tape, and you watched JTO Sullivan's breakdown of it, he was not all that impressed. And that concerns me. Because if I'm going to listen to anybody's sort of NFL edge matchup breakdown of a quarterback, it's going to be JTO Sullivan. It's going to be Kurt Warner.

It's going to be JTO Sullivan. Everybody else is usually like some weird Giants fan who has a YouTube channel or whatever. That doesn't, I have no interest in that. Folks, have you ever heard of test driving a phone network? I did not make this up. It is an actual thing. And US Cellular is letting you test drive their network for free for 30 days. You could try out US Cellular wherever you have that spotty service,

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U.S. Cellular, built for us. Terms apply. Awards based on open signal, independent data. Visit uscellular.com for details. And so, you know, his concerns are mine. I want to make sure that this guy can make the throws and I want to make sure he can get out of the jam. And I don't know that he's ever been in the kind of jam,

like he played okay in the Alabama game. Like, I don't, but again, someone else, I think you pointed it out, but other people pointed it out as well. There was never a time when Michigan was, you know, when it was tight at the end and they were like, we need to rely on our stud quarterback right now. Because they didn't have to because they had a running game

that went for a million yards a fucking game. So they were like, we'll just hand off to Blake Corm on third and six and he'll get 19 yards and that'll be groovy. So there's a lot to prove with JJ and, you know, may has a lot to prove too, but I'm, I'm, I'm more, uh, I'm much more able to talk myself into the guy who's taller with a bigger arm, who has proven that he can play in adverse conditions on a much more regular basis than, than JJ JJ has I think you have done a very good job of talking me into it and I have felt the same way about May versus McCarthy where it's

so cliche draft wise to say ceiling but I do feel like that I do feel like who can be the game changer who can be the unstoppable force like is it possible and it's not a guarantee that drake may can be an unstoppable force because of his size because of his arm talent and we've seen that player even be just okay but yet also have that gear and that's why i compare him to matthew stafford or eli manning because even though those guys screw up a lot and make mistakes and have bad games, there is a gear that they can hit that's just different. And, you know, in thinking about McCarthy and quarterbacks, he reminds me of the other day, I mentioned Matt Hasselbeck of like somebody who's really good, but did they have an extra level to their game that they could take you themselves,

putting the team on their back. Now it's not impossible that he becomes that we've just never seen it. And what sort of doesn't compute with me is if it was there and Michigan never used it, they'd be pretty crazy, right? Like, like,

Oh, well they just had a great running game. And wait, you had this superstar and you really never wanted to put the gas down that just doesn't really add up to me i mean you could you could pin it a little bit on harbaugh because he's that kind of coach but um but i don't remember i mean you know he he he brought back the band in la he's gonna have greg roman and they're gonna make the same sort of Greg Roman mistakes, but he does have Justin Herbert. He has no

wideouts and he will have Roma Dunze or Marvin Harrison Jr. in a couple of months from now. He has a history of favoring ground and pound as opposed to other coaches. Maybe he did McCarthy a disservice there, but he's also an insane person who would do anything to win. So if he knew his quarterback could throw for 400 yards a game, he would probably have them do it.

So, you know, there's a lot for me to worry about. But at the same time, I want to be, like, excited that there's going to be's a lot for me to to worry about but at the same time i want to be like excited that just there's gonna be someone new you know so because i told you uh ages ago i was like any of the top six like anybody like i'll take them but now of course we're in the we're in the middle of the shit and it's like well no while we're here i can afford to be a little picky and now i have my own little pecking order well and that it's also the well, no, while we're here, I can afford to be a little picky. And now I have my own little pecking order. Well, and that it's also the game of talk me into. So that was your job there to make that case as strongly as you can.

That's not to say if they had McCarthy that you would be unhappy with it, because that still is coming away with the cheat code of the rookie quarterback contract and someone who could work effectively with O'Connell. And I do believe there's more there to his physical skill than he was able to show. But would it be the real fundamental question is, does it, would you pay that extra first to get the guy that you absolutely dreamed of versus not paying it for someone you'd be happy with? And to me, I say, yes, pay the, pay the price and you'll never like pay the extra thousand dollars,

whatever for the car you actually want rather than the one you can afford. What would you like me to talk you into regarding the Vikings? Well, I mean, that's just it. I was going to say, talk me into J.J. McCarthy being a quarterback. I will. I will do this easily. So here's the thing that I know about J.J. McCarthy is that he is a good athlete and that he's got a strong arm. He does have a strong arm.

I mean, he threw the ball, not that this has always correlated, but he threw the ball 62 miles an hour at the combine. Josh Allen threw it 63. Now, that doesn't mean that you have a perfect deep ball because Kirk threw it 59 at the combine. But what it does mean is when he can plant himself and put everything into that football, he can really laser the ball. So that is NFL caliber stuff. You've seen it in his tape all over the place. If there's somebody coming on a slant route or, you know, a 20 yard dig or something, and he's got to gear up and let it go, he can absolutely make the throws that Kevin O'Connell is going to want him to make on a consistent basis, I think. It's really around the edges.

It's the, does he do something absolutely wild off the schedule? Not usually. Does he have this beautiful, pristine deep ball? I don't really think so. Some of the details on the shorter stuff, not always perfect, but not always perfect is every single prospect that ever comes out. And if we were to go through scouting reports of quarterbacks that have worked out and not worked out, and I don't love to use this guy because of what happened with him eventually, but Deshaun Watson dropped in the draft because people thought that he was mostly just a runner

and kind of like had a noodle arm and he never had the strongest arm and then became a franchise quarterback who put them in position to compete for Superbowls. There's so many things that we nitpick away because we're looking at the same guys over and over and over and looking for every single flaw potentially in them. When we have to realize that if he's working with McCown, O'Connell, whatever private quarterback coach he's going to have, that this seems to be a very, very dedicated person to being a great NFL quarterback. He just exudes that about the way that he plays. And he's already had an NFL-ish experience, so he kind of knows what it's like to play under pressure of a nutty

coach. So if they draft him, I think if you were doing some sort of odds that May works out versus McCarthy works out, that they could take you deep in the playoffs and compete for a Super Bowl, it's probably not that different. And so that would be the counter argument. And the reason not to trade that extra first is that from a pure percentages perspective and this may be crazy kevin o'connell having this discussion from a pure numbers perspective the third quarterback versus the fourth quarterback is probably not that different and if i'm talking you into it then i will finish by saying it's not worth trading that extra first round pick for even though i don't exactly believe that. Yeah, I, I think,

I think it comes down to touch because I have a couple or a couple of Michigan fans at defector Lauren Tyson and my three, Anant Tharaman and you know, they both had issues with his touch that, you know, that he had a powerful arm, but whether or not he could pepper it just the right way, like that's really important. You need the guy who throws not just a laser into a tight spot,

but you don't want the guy who pulls afar and throws a 100-mile-an-hour fastball when he doesn't need to and it bounces right off the receiver's hands and gets intercepted. So you need the guy who can put some touch on it. And that was a Bill Walsh thing too. Bill Walsh was like it was very important to him that a quarterback have proper touch on his throws. And that's a huge variety of throws that you have to make. And you have to have some sort of instinct. I'm sure there's coaching to it.

And I'm sure Kevin O'Connell is the sort of guy who can get it out of you. But I do think that it is an innate talent to, you know, like it's called arm talent, right? Like it's sort of a weird phrase and it sounds kind of silly. But like that's, I think that that is something that is just sort of there. And I want to make sure it's there before we draft him and not afterward. No, that's a good point. And it's layering the football is another way to put it. No, I like that term. Yeah, I mean, because you can really,

when they say layering, you can envision it, right? You can see the linebacker. You can see having to guide the ball over a certain guy into. And when some of the highlights are McCarthy throwing like a crow hop laser beam, that's super low and barely fits in a window. I'm like,

did he mean to do that? Or did that just kind of end up that way? That was the Justin Fields thing a little bit. Look at all these throws into tight windows. Did you mean to get it there? Or was that just kind of like it got there by accident, but it was a shit. That's really, that's really important with Justin because, you know, you know, Justin oddly, you know, it's it's weird to call to say that Justin's not a deep threat, but he's not Randy Moss. Right. He's not right. Like, you know, it doesn't have he doesn't have the electricity where the ball goes up in the air and off the screen and you are like, oh, my God, I know who's at the other end of it when the camera pans over.

He's a different kind of player where he makes these fabulous receptions always like 25 yards down the field. Kirk was good at getting him the ball that way. Kirk was really talented with that. And that is what the next guy needs to have. He needs to have that. And really, I almost am like, look, just bring these guys to Justin and have them throw the ball at Justin and have Justin tell you which one he likes the best and just draft that guy, right? Because, like, Justin's going to know.

Like, Justin's not going to be like – Justin's not the sort of asshole who's just going to be like, oh, well, you know, he was nice to me and we like the same music. He wants a quarterback who's going to get him the ball in the right spot at the right time so he can score a touchdown and win the game because that's what he wants and that's what I want. And that's what the Vikings want. I don't think it ever left him playing with Joe Burrow.

The playmaking, the accuracy, the swag, the intelligent, like it really like that's going to be the standard for him. And I think that Drake may is more of a burrow type thrower with the touch on the football, but he also has some wild elements of his game. So that is my next talk me into talk me into drew you, uh, not being upset next year if they have to play Sam Darnold and not losing your mind and tearing out your hair and breaking your glasses in frustration. If Sam Darnold has some rocky times and it's not a great season, well, quarterback of the future X does not play. Talk me into you being able to handle and Vikings fans being able to handle a transition year before we get to quarterback of the future.

I mean, that's, that's easy to answer. Cause you know, it's sort of overdue, right? Like I think, I think you were of the mind. I was always, I'm always been in the mind and I've said before in a million times, I don't think tanking works. I don't believe in tanking, but you were always of the mind that, well, you can tank a little bit and have it help, right? So if you have a year where Donald is your full-time starter, and I think they signed Donald to be a backup. I don't think that's going to happen. But anyway, if you have a year where Donald is a starter and you eat shit and you only win five games, it it it sucks to endure but i'll already

know that it's all in service of 2025 like the moves right now have been made you know and you know they they're good moves for 2024 but they are like you said they have an eye toward 2025 so with that in mind how they manage the roster during the season would also be an indication of that. So I think I'd be all right with that because, again, I'm so used to, well, first of all, I'm used to losing vital games, right? Because I'm a Vikings fan. And I'm used to having other people's quarterbacks as my quarterback. Like that is, that's old hat. Been doing it for decades now. Totally fine. And I can, I can deal because I will know, I'll know that something new is on the horizon.

And that's been the problem with, you know, the past three, four years of Kirk where it's like, I've spent a lot of time waiting for Kirk to leave, right? Like 2019, I was like, fine. Okay. Bring him back. But after that, you know, like when he got COVID and they got housed by Green Bay in the COVID season, I was like, I was done. I wanted to be done. And I've been wanting it to be done ever since then. And it's finally done. And that euphoria, that's going to stay for a good long time. I can guarantee you that.

Because the other thing is that we signed Aaron Jones, who's a fantastic running back. And unlike the Packers, we're probably going to actually use him. Even though KO hates the run, he might actually warm up to the run if Sam Donald's f***ing up all over the place. So I'm okay with, I think I can be okay with that. And I've been able to talk myself into a lot of dumb as a Vikings fan. Like I talked myself into like Bershad Breeland being a decent corner.

He was not. So I can, I can talk myself into Donald being like, oh, well, he might have a case Keaton sort of thing going on. Why not? So yes,

I can do that. Well, you were excited yesterday about Shaq Griffin. So it's a, that will probably never change. Right. And that was, that Griffin. So, uh, it's a, that will probably never change. Right. And that was, that was before I, I, I was reminded that he was, that he was cut mid season by the Texans. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't want to burst any bubbles there, but, um, he's a guy, he's a guy on the team. You know what it is? It's just, if it's the position that they need.

Yeah. Or I'm like, Oh, they need a corner. They signed a corner. All right, that's good. They need a guard. They signed a guard. Oh, that's good. You know, that's right. Folks, if you don't know what a VPN is, you might actually need one and not even realize it. If you already know the positives,

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slash purpleinsider. You know, I'm going to tell you the truth. I I've been spending the morning before we were talking here, watching Sam Darnold's end of 2022 and his game against San Francisco. And I came away with feeling like there would probably be four to five to six games where you can't believe he's an NFL quarterback. And then probably eight to 10, where he plays good enough to win a game for you, that there are things that he does that are really good. And he did it against us. He did it against us. Like, like we, we had that game sealed, but we't because sam donald marched him down the field and and put to overtime kirk won it but you know it was still like one of the classic vikings game where you

win but it's like did it really have to be that fucking hard yes i do remember that quite well but the thing is like he was actually running their offense on time with rhythm in his passing and made some really nice throws off balance. And some throws that I had to say, Kirk ain't making that one, 25 yards down the field, off balance, things like that. He ran a couple RPOs for first downs. Oh, a quarterback running. Haven't seen that in a while.

Off balance is a big thing, I think. Because I saw that a lot on the tape with with may where you know he's like he's sort in the grass and you're like oh this plays this place goner and then he would get it out at the at the last last last last second and that's the exact kind of guy you know so i i see what you're you're saying there if he can do some off balance throws that would be that would be very nice. But I also know it would be fleeting, right? Oh, yeah.

Yeah. That's my point is entertainment value actually might be high. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you do that, it could be kind of a wild roller coaster ride to eight and nine. And not all eight and nines are created equal. Right. And so this sort of fun eight and nine with Sam Darnold, where no one really cares

about this season and we're waiting for Drake May next year. Like that could all be pretty entertaining to find out about new guys. And I even think last year, halfway through the season, hey, we found out about Josh Metellus. We found out about Ivan Pace

that these are pieces for the future that we didn't know about. Yeah, I enjoyed that. That could be a fun process going through that. So I think that it would be manageable for Vikings fans. The only thing I would be concerned about is if you said five games

and then people start to turn on the coach because we already saw that last year and there was no reason for it. It's Nick Mullins, it's Josh Dobbs. And there was some validity to the criticisms, but if people started to get antsy with those guys at quarterback about Kevin O'Connell, if they were to win five games, then I, and they still weren't playing the rookie. Like there is a scenario where this gets a little dicey or uncomfortable, I think. Yeah, but i again you know we're talking hypotheticals

here and if they draft a rookie the rookie's starting there's gonna be a fake training camp battle and all that but like you know you know how it's gonna go and if if ownership and i can't believe i'm saying this but if ownership says okay we we believe in this gm we believe in this coach and if people are they're gonna whatever who cares like we're gonna stick with them then that says a lot to me that that that they're willing to endure to have continuity and to see a plan through to see a vision through then then i'm i'm all for it that's that's good because you know you fire Kevin. All right. Well, who's the next guy? Like, have you hired the corpse of Belichick or something like that?

Like, make this work. It's only been two years. You know, I would rather try to see this through more than anything. All right. I will talk you into one more, then I have a fun Vikings question for you. So what do you want to know? What do you want me to talk you into? Oh, okay. Talk me into, uh, tell me into Bo Nix. Okay. I can do that. Uh, so Bo Nix is a little bit unspectacular when it comes to his tools. There isn't one thing where

you go, Oh, he's six, five, or, Oh, he's throws it over them mountains or something like that. But I think what we saw last year from Brock Purdy is that under the right circumstances, somebody who is an executor of the offense, who can make a play at the right time. And let's keep in mind, Bo Nix ran like a four, six coming out of high school, five-star athlete. Like this isn't some sort of journeyman caliber type of non-athlete quarterback he ran for what five six hundred yards uh in college if college would get its rushing statistics right uh but he he routinely made plays with his legs and out of structure but one of the things that really really impresses me about Bo Nix is that in college, he got the football out of his hands in about 2.3 seconds,

which is NFL caliber. You don't see that very often from college quarterbacks. You don't see it from somebody like Drake May. It usually takes a little longer. You definitely don't see it from Jaden Daniels. Who's taken a lot of sacks. He doesn't take sacks. He is an executor of the offense. And I did talk to a former NFL scout who really likes Bo Nix. Like he would have him as a first round draft pick. He was his, I think QB four ahead of JJ McCarthy because he called them that sort of a field general type of leader. So is he ever going to be the guy that you're just like, Hey, it's all on you.

It's all on your back. Probably not. But neither is Jalen hurts. Neither is Brock Purdy. Neither was Jimmy Garoppolo. Like under the right circumstances, we have seen quarterbacks like this, who, if they could handle it all mentally and get the football out and not take bad sacks and not turn it over, that they can win a hell of a lot of games. And if you're in the AFC, that wouldn't be a good argument. But you're in the AFC, and there's, look, I mean, is Bo Nix's ceiling like Dak Prescott? I mean, maybe, right?

Like, just not one skill that's over the top, but really intellectual there, good accuracy. I mean, I think that Bo Nix might be a guy that we just ogle over other people's tools so much and their potential so much that you sort of miss what's right in front of you. And I've always sort of been in the camp that if they shocked us and took Bo Nix, it'd be like, all right, well, he's going to get the ball out of his hands toward Justin Jefferson. And that's pretty darn successful. Well, I think, I think it'd be all right with it if it came with, you know, if it was, if they stood Pat with the two picks, which I think, I think it'd be all right with it. If it came with, you know, if it was,

if they stood Pat with the two picks, which I really don't think they're going to do, you know, and they, and they got mixed with the second pick and then they got some stallion like verse or, or Dallas Turner, like with the, with the 11th pick or, or, or the Toledo quarter cornerback, like, you know, okay. Like I can sort of see that, but it's almost like, um, I don't know. It's like an album that has like, you know, two really good songs on it, but no like timeless one. And I need, I need the, I need the welcome

to the jungle on, on there. I need, I need the, I need the, to the jungle on there. I need the immortal track. Yeah, no, I feel you. I think it's a little hard to talk you into Bo Nix because he's the least flashy of all the guys. I mean, even with Michael Penix, when he lets it loose, I mean, it's really something to see. Yeah, I love watching him throw. I love seeing it.

Are you okay if they stay at 11, though? Or are you going to not be happy? No. I'm not happy with that either. You know what I'll have? Like on draft night, like I'll piss and moan. Or I won't. I'll be like, I guess it's okay.

And then I'll gradually talk myself into it, like as training camp comes. And then, you know, people are like, ah, Bo's fucking ripping it on the practice field. I'll be like, all right, all right, rock and roll and all that. But it won't be the same because I know damn well what they want to do. And I know what's going to happen. I already know that they have to wait for Washington to pick Daniels at two. Once that happens,

New England will trade them the three so they can pick May. That's what's going to happen. And that's why I really think that's going to happen. And if something bizarre happens, like the Commander's taking May or the Bear is taking May, which I really don't think

is going to happen, then they have to sort of shift into whatever mode. But Kweisi already said, look, we have contingencies. Like, you know, you have to prepare to be fucked, right? Like going against what Tom Moore said, like you have to prepare for it. And, you know, I do have confidence that they have a plan, but I know what their first choice is,

and I don't think they're going to be stopped in getting it, even if it means giving up four first rounders, which again, I wouldn't have a problem with it because we never done this before. And I'd like us to do it. Well, and when it comes to the quarterbacks in general, I can be talked into a lot of them because Kenny Pickett was once a first

round draft pick. And yeah, I remember you talking about JTO Sullivan. I remember on draft night where he just tweeted something like i just don't understand this at all i mean the guy was 24 he didn't throw the ball very hard jordan addison did all the work for him and he just there was nothing spectacular where each one of these guys you can go look at these numbers from bo nicks and say whatever you want but wow like 45 touchdowns and three picks

or look at Pennix throw the ball and that's the worst prospect that they've got this year it's just one of those years where there's a lot of good quarterbacks and sometimes it's 2020 and sometimes it's 2021 and we won't know for a while well the other thing is that Pennix had a brilliant wide out in a dunze and made the absolute most out of them and that meant a lot to me because of Justin you know so you know I that makes a big difference to me and you know I should say that about Daniels too

because he had not one top 10 wide out but probably two which is that's that's kind of impressive too but you know I think I watch the most Daniel scares me the most because I think he could get hurt and I think he could get sacked a ton and it could look like Tyrod Taylor or Justin Fields where the guy just doesn't throw it and drives you insane and it's hard to win when a guy takes 45 sacks a year.

That's my biggest concern about him. Because how often did I scream? I mean, all I did was scream, get rid of the Kirk for six years. So I don't, I don't want to do that again, you know? So if you're telling me the bonus can get rid of the ball quick, that's nice. I do like that. Okay. Here's my final fun question.

You've been watching this team for a very, very long time. I have. And you know, I don't expect you to have memorized who's in the ring of honor, but I want you to tell me a player that, you you know will never be a ring of honor Viking player that if it was Drew's ring of honor, you would put him in. Who would that be? That is not necessarily in the Randy Moss, Chris Carter, sort of Alan Page echelon,

but meaningful to you that you would put in Drew's Viking Ring of Honor. Winfield's in there, right? I don't believe he is, no. Winfield, then. Winfield. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If we had another corner like Winfield,

and I think Rhodes should be in there, because when Rhodes was, like, peak Rhodes was like, he was really, really good. He did that thing where he'd limp off the field once a game and I'd be absolutely horrified. And then he would come back in and, and, and shut everything down. But when, when he was good, he was, he was so good. I really loved watching him play. I'll tell you a quick Antoine Winfield personal tale. So I grew up watching the Buffalo bills. Obviously that's where I grew up was in buffalo and when the bills did not re-sign antoine winfield that is when i declared as maybe a

14 year old or something like i am not a fan of this team like i'm done i'm just i'm just not like if you let that guy go i can't take your team seriously. And I never did again. Like I never bought another jersey or fanboyed them ever. I was just completely done. I just went to the whole league and playing Madden and everything else. But I just didn't even, I wouldn't even watch the games like with my dad. I'd just be like, you know what? I'm going to watch Favre and Aikman play in the afternoon or whoever at that time. But I just couldn't take them seriously

after they let a player of his caliber go. So I appreciate that. By the way, since you mentioned the Bills, you reminded me of Pat Williams. And Pat Williams was... Oh, yes. I think Pat Williams would be the guy. I think that would be my choice.

I have his jersey. I love Pat Williams. And you've heard me praise big fat defensive tackles a lot. I would kill for another Pat Williams. That would be so cool. I'd really enjoy that. Yeah.

Maybe we talked about it, but at one time the bills had Ted Washington and Pat Williams on the field at the same time. Oh my God. Oh, my dreams come true. That's so, I'm pretty sure they led the league and run defense that year.

So yeah, rocks. I did. I loved having the williams wall for x number of years and just no one could ever run the ball that was so cool that was i missed that quite quite anytime someone runs the ball on us i'm like wait that's not supposed to happen like we're the vikings not supposed to and no matter how analytics i get when a team runs the ball effectively i'm like yes it's it feels like

someone's strangling you to death when they're running and running and running and running and that's why this you know recent running game has been so frustrating to watch for the Vikings because it's just not there so you don't have the easy button yeah and I I think I think O'Connell wants it I know he I mean I think that's part of the reason why he called so few runs because he knew it wasn't working but you know I remember um I remember when viral when Brandon Staley I mean, I think that's part of the reason why he called so few runs because he knew it wasn't working. But, you know, I remember when viral when Brandon Staley, I mean, Brandon Staley has been deposed since then. But, you know, he was like, look, you want to have a running game because it forces the opposing defense to work.

They have to tackle. They have to get off their blocks. They have to do all this really tiring and it sucks for them. So even if you only get a two yard gain out of it, you have still made their lives very, very annoying. And so I, I did, I thought that was correct. Cause I mean, I've played football, so I know, I know how tiring defense gets. Right. So that I, I, I think that was a good point. And so, you know, I'm,

I'm excited to see them use Aaron Jones the way he ought to be used and not mixing in that's A.J. Dillon for a vanity carry every three carries. I don't understand their commitment to him, but they can. He's got such big thighs. It's just never scared me even a little bit when he's on the field. So anyway, well, drew the defector, I think on the defector Twitter, it says a good website. he's on the field. So anyway, well, Drew, the Defector, I think on the Defector Twitter, it says a good website. It's a great website.

So people- The last good website. Yeah, the last good website. Okay, the last great website, one of my favorite daily reads over at Defector. Make sure you check it out. If you are not familiar, I don't know how you could be at this point

and not being familiar with Drew if you're a Vikings fan, but thanks, man. Well, I'm glad that we could get together, have a long form conversation instead of, you know,

a little text and so forth. And we'll do it again at some point soon. Thanks for doing honestly, you know, just have me on every week. Cause I, like I said, I got no one else to talk about this shit.

So just do it. And we're getting May. It's going to happen. Okay. Write it down. I can give you the mirror. It's gonna be me. Okay. Now can give you the mirror it's gonna be me okay now now you're not coming back to the show all right you know what it's fair