Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Did the Vikings have a good training camp?

Episode Date: August 25, 2023

Matthew Coller and Will Ragatz talk about the end of Vikings camp and grade it from the perspective of the coaches and players and front office and talk about what's left to find out in preseason Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here inside Circa in Las Vegas for the Circa Million and Circa Survivor contests, which, by the way, you have until September 9th to visit Las Vegas and sign up for these contests. And it's worth it. It's worth it. It was a very easy flight for Minnesota. And I have been having a great time since I got here to Las Vegas and joining me though, back from Minnesota, which I understand is a lot cooler than it was yesterday, is Will Raggetts, of course, of Sports Illustrated for our little weekly get together. And Will, I missed practice today. This is only the second practice that I've ever missed.

Both have come this year, so I barely know the team now that I've missed these two practices. My understanding, though, is that it was not that intense today. It ended early, so nothing was missed by me that's going to change my opinion on our conversation about what they're going to do with this roster, right? No, nothing too crazy was missed there actually was you use the word intense there was a one moment we didn't have any on Wednesday of like some trash talking and getting up in people's faces when some Cardinals defensive tackle tackled Alexander Madison all the way to the ground and the offensive line did not like that and got in his face but I don't think it ever escalated to like even any shoving much less a punch being thrown but yeah it just

it was a practice where it kind of confirmed a lot of the things that we saw on Wednesday and a lot of things we've seen throughout camp like KJ Osborne wasn't there for some unspecified reason so just keep that in mind I have no idea if that's serious and I would probably won't hear from Kevin O'Connell about that until next week. But Jordan Addison was the number two wide receiver, playing every single rep with the first-team offense. And guess what? He's really good.

He's still really good. He's been really good all camp. And Byron Murphy had another interception against his former team. Josh Metellus was good. We saw a lot of Ivan Pace. We saw all three linebackers mix in with the ones. Pace, Asamoah was back out there um picks as well and then Makai Blackman was doing some team stuff so just nothing crazy but uh you

know anything you you thought coming in is probably probably showed up today well what do you make of the uh the mixture of linebackers because in the walkthrough the other day we also saw that but then Asamoah didn't practice with the 11 on 11s when I was there yesterday so now that he's back it seems like they want to have some mixture or combination of those guys do you think that that's how it plays out when the season comes and I ask because I've got a little milkshake bet with Andrew Kramer about who the starting linebacker on the first play is going to be other than Jordan Hicks. I've got Ivan Pace. He's got Brian Asamoah. I don't think it's a bad idea at all if they mix and match these guys with the way that Pace is developed as fast as he has. Or I guess, you know, just emerged on the scene so quickly and picked up this defense, that that's like bonus money.

But I never thought that that meant that Asamoah is just out of the picture entirely. Yeah, I'm with you. I thought for a while that, hey, Asamoah's just hurt. Like Pace is getting this run now, but it's still going to be number 33 out there. And then the longer he stayed out and the more I watched Ivan Pace and the more impressed I was I was like okay maybe not so really early on today it was Pace and Hicks and then we saw some Asamoah and Hicks and then late in practice there was a period where Hicks was on the sideline and it was the two young guys out there flying around so I think you need Hicks

because the size and the experience he brings a little bit of a different play style and and body type and and that helps against the run and that helps in a variety of ways like I don't think you could get through a whole season having two really undersized linebackers but it is it's a fun idea that in certain packages I don't know if this would be a third down thing if this would be a blitz heavy thing or what it would be that Brian Flores could say all right Ivan Pace Brian Asimoy you're both going out there fly to the ball make some plays because those guys are both just heat seeking missiles when they're able to diagnose what's happening in front of them so i think all three guys play week one as for who will be out there on that very first snap to uh to settle a milkshake bet i'm not sure right now

hey it matters a lot but i think i think if i had to guess i would i would i would lean ivan pace actually i'm gonna leave ivan pace as well and uh i also think it's probably the most important thing of the entire offseason is you know how that goes um the the other one that's out there still and is going to take the entire season to resolve is jordanison versus KJ Osborne. I guess if I were grading Jordan Addison's training camp, Will, I would probably give him an A. And I'm not going to downgrade somebody because they missed a few practices out of precaution that he had a concussion. So that's not going to take away from his grade for me but i would say really from

day two on like the first day nailer was taking more reps than him and like oh okay it's kind of interesting they're gonna make him earn it a little bit and then after that you know nailer was out for such a long period of time and it seems like addison is just very much uh in the competition with kj osborne for who could have more receptions and walking away from it. I feel like Addison has shown everything that he could do that you drafted him for, which is really all you can ask for out of someone's camp. We can't guarantee what they're going to be, but what you want to see is what they were touted as. And like, just to use the opposite example, there are some 2022 draft picks that were presented certain ways by draft analysts and the team that we didn't see that at all. And Addison has checked off all those boxes.

Yeah, every single box, everything you heard about him coming out of college, everything the Vikings talked up in their post-draft press conference, that has played out it's so to me uh you're right that that's kind of a good segue because that those are two positions inside linebacker and wide receiver where yes the Vikings are are probably going to have to make a depth chart decision where who's the number two guy here but to have multiple guys who can be in that role and and who can you can use interchangeably and simultaneously and in a variety of different ways like that's a really good thing for Brian Flores on defense with those linebackers and for Kevin O'Connell on offense you can use KJ Osborne in certain situations if maybe you're leaning run more out of that set you can use Jordan Addison if it's going to be more I need somebody to beat single coverage like to me it's it's the same thing where I think the rookie just I feel a

little bit better about their long-term prospects whether it's pace or Addison like just with what I've seen from training camp and how consistent they've been that's maybe who I would pick to be the number two but KJ Osborne isn't going to go away like he's going to be a really important part of this offense all year run blocking playing out playing out of the slot, doing all these different things. So Jordan Addison's been great. He had a play today in one-on-ones where he just went up and mossed a Cardinals defensive back, which is not something you see all the time from guys who are his size.

So that was pretty impressive. He was all over the place during team on Wednesday. So yeah, he's just, he's lived up to every, every bit of the hype so far. Sarah asks, will Jordan Edison be wide receiver two by week one? I just think will that at this moment, and this is another point to be made that will his body hold up for a whole season? I don't know. We'll see. I mean, I have concerns about that, but how can we predict that? I mean, there are receivers in the league. The guy he was compared to was Tyler Lockett that learn how to protect themselves.

And he's going to have to not play with reckless abandon. He's going to have to play with some abandon in order to make sure that he stays healthy and blocking is tough for those guys and random freak things happen. So I don't know. Irv Smith had somebody fall on him last year and was like injury prone. I mean, I don't know. Someone just fell on him. What was he supposed to do?

So things happen. But to the question of whether he's wide receiver too, he has earned targets in this offense. He's earned lots of reps in this offense. But figuring out who's wide receiver two and three. I just don't think that actual football works that way. I think actual football works as every single play in this offense is designed to go to Justin Jefferson and whoever's the second option depends on what the defense is doing. And so if the defense is doing more to stop him on a particular day, then Osborne, then Osborne will have more catches. And if they're doing more to

stop Osborne, then he will have more catches or maybe Hawkinson will have more catches or maybe Josh Oliver. Like, I don't know. It really depends on who is the next man down based on how the defense is matching up against you. And every single week you're going to see some sort of new plan by every team against Justin Jefferson. So that to me is what it comes down to. I think that they could both be looked at as at this moment as receivers to a, and to be, it just depends on who they want in when there's two tight ends or a fullback. Yeah, no,

I'm right there with you. I think Kevin O'Connell just having all of these tools in his arsenal to deploy in various ways. It's just the puzzle. It's the chess match of what are you doing defensively how can we beat that how can we adjust in game to adapt to whatever we're seeing defensively and get to what we want to get to and be multiple and all these things that they talk about and to do that you want to have a bunch of different guys and so I don't know who will be

technically the wide receiver too but I agree with you they're both going to play a ton they're both going to be involved I think Addison has more of the the long-term future I mean KJ Osborne's going into a contract year KJ Osborne also we have no I mean he missed today's practice we have no idea if that could be a one week or two week thing suddenly and then Jordan Addison is obviously the wide receiver too maybe it's just a day, one day thing. And he's back out there next week, but yeah, it's going to be really game plan dependent, defense dependent, all of these things. Jalen Naylor, I think can factor in Brandon Powell. Like they just,

they have a lot of weapons in the wide receiver room in the tight end room as well to deploy against defenses. And I think that's a really good thing for Kevin O'Connell. So Mateo says Addison is a twig who was hurt in college. Are we surprised he has already been hurt? Well, I mean, he hasn't really, it was just one day where he fell wrong, which can happen to anybody. And he missed OTAs and mini camp, which I'm not too concerned about since he's been in for almost every single practice. What did he miss? Two practices through the entire training camp. I think it's something that you have,

you can't discount when someone is that size. But also, I don't know that history says that just being small equals you get hurt all the time at that position. There's been small receivers in the NFL that play long careers. There's your Julian Edelman's or your, you know, you're Julian Edelman's or your, you know, Taylor Gabriel was probably the smallest receiver. I think I've ever seen

Andrew Hawkins played in the league for a while. Like it's, I don't know. I think what my point about Irv Smith jr. Was he had no history of being injured and then had to happen two years in a row. And then everyone just assumed that he was injury prone. He might play 10 years in a row without any injuries. That was the Kyle Rudolph story early in his career. So I don't know. I think it's fair to bring up the size, but it's not a predictor. And also, how hurt was he in college?

I mean, I think he missed a couple games, but he played the whole 2021 and won the Blitnikoff Award, so he was healthy enough for that season. So I don't know. I just wouldn't put one time getting banged up in training camp and say, I'm really, really worried about that. Um, I also think that when a guy is in the slot and can play underneath that, that does protect him, but rookies do get hurt because they put their bodies through a lot. Uh, let's talk about the big picture though, of this training camp. Cause now it's over. I mean, wow. What a journey, right?

We just go out there every day and then, you know, sweat and get sunburned. And we write our stories and everything else. And there's all sorts of things that happen and rumors about Trey Lance, you know, whatever. It's always a wild ride. And now that it's over and the roller coaster has come all the way to the end, how would you grade the entire training camp, start to finish, for the Minnesota Vikings? I think it has to be at least in, like, the B range.

Because I think, I mean, we've talked about this in previous weeks. Like, a lot of the things that they went into it wanting to see, they saw. And that was Jordan Addison having an excellent first training camp. Makai Blackman rising up the depth chart and surpassing, kind of clearing the Jawan Williams bar to become a starter. Byron Murphy has looked every bit the part as their number one cornerback. Josh Metellus and all of the versatility of Brian Flores' defense. I mean, a huge story of this training camp was just how flustered the Vikings' offense,

like pre-joint practices, was getting going against Brian Flores' defense every day and all of the different looks that they can give you and the depth and versatility they have at linebacker and they have at safety. And even today, there were more times where I've been talking about the two linebackers thing where it was just one linebacker out there and they're in dime. They've got three cornerbacks, three safeties. Josh Metellus is lining up on the line of scrimmage like he's going to blitz and then dropping back into coverage and just just all these things they can do. I think the development of Brian Flores, not only his scheme, but his philosophy and kind of it's an overused word, but kind of just a culture of defense.

I think that went really well. I think the Ivan Pace thing is a big story. There's certain things where I'd be hesitant to maybe give it an A. Like, I don't know that some guys flashed in the way they wanted to. Louis Seen and Andrew Booth, the top two guys in last year's draft who we've talked a ton about, it really, they didn't kind of take the steps that you might have wanted to see about Nick Mullins um he had kind of another poor day today

against the Cardinals and just the second team offense like some of the depth there hasn't really stepped up the way you'd want to but but that's kind of nitpicking like we we already knew that if Kirk Cousins misses any time and you have to play Nick Mullins, it's probably not going to go super well. But I would give it a B. I'd probably give it a B plus just because I think top to bottom, both phases. I mean, even Greg Joseph and the special team side, Najee Thompson emerging in the preseason. Like, it's just it seems to me like things have gone pretty well. I don't know how much that means. I mean, it's, you'd rather have that than have injuries piling up and guys struggling to play well that you counted on to play well, but

I'm giving them a B plus, but I will say, take that with a grain of salt. That does not suddenly mean that they're going to go win 12 games. Although I still did, I still predicted them to win 11. And as we discussed earlier, I'm still sticking to it until proven otherwise. Folks, there is no crazier time in my schedule than the fall season, and let me tell you, it is tough to find myself a good and healthy meal, but that is why I have Factor, America's number one ready-to-eat meal kit that can help me fuel up with chef-prepared, dietician-approved, ready-to-eat meals delivered straight to my door.

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it was all going because a lot of times, well, yeah, I mean, a lot of times I would walk out of camping, like, I don't know, it doesn't look any better than it was last year. And then every year it would be kind of the same thing. I mean, 2020, the training camp, you couldn't really tell because it was a very short camp. So short that, you know, they couldn't even get Justin Jefferson enough reps to feel good about starting him right away. And I don't even blame them for that. It was really that short of a training camp because of COVID and everything. And then you have 2021 where there was the COVID controversy.

And you just got the sense that the culture was going to be so bad that they weren't going to be able to overcome anything, even if they had a decent roster. And last year, there were very few questions really to be answered throughout training camp, other than can they get the offense down? And the offense had great days and bad days, which it did to start the season as well. And I guess I was feeling like, I don't know if they're going to have a great offense throughout training camp this year. I'm walking out feeling like a lot of the biggest questions that I had were answered.

And I'm trying to avoid looking at the forest through the trees because, or I'm trying to see the forest through the trees because the small things are not good. The 2022 draft class did not step up in any way, except for a Caleb Evans who looks, I mean, I think pretty good the way that he's played. But aside from that, all those articles that we wrote, who are the guys who have the biggest chance to step up in camp

and take the biggest leaps forward? And a lot of them did not do it. I would say one of the biggest disappointments of all of camp is for three years now, I've been like this Kenny Wong will guy, man. If he could just get that, gets the ball, just give him the ball. Well, he can't give him the ball if he's sidelined for all of training camp.

Jalen Naylor was one of the more kind of intriguing players. Didn't practice through the entire training camp. So things like that, but also are those the guys who are going to determine the final result? Or is it Jordan Addison, which I think makes a big deal? Is it Brian Flores? I think Brian Flores finding a lot of different ways to use players, even as you mentioned today with Asamoah and Ivan Pace, like that matters. So I come out of it and then just major injuries. Is there a single major injury? So there isn't. So I come out of it with all that saying that's all really, really good.

But no contract extension for Hawkinson. No contract extension for Jefferson. They kick the ball down the road again with or the can, whatever. They kick something down the road again with Daniel Hunter. So like once again, we'll address this in the future if we ever do and not signing him to a long-term extension, but keeping him anyway, those to me would not get super high grades. Actually not having Jefferson extended and says that F you needed to get that done. And it's not a completely over yet, but if we count the front office elements, the fact that we're still're still talking about well you need to add this and you need to add that and you need a

free agent and you need a you know you need to make a trade or whatever to fill out some of these spots I don't think that that's that's looking very good so I think that the players and the coaches that matter for this season did well but I think from the front office perspective there's still answer questions to be answered and there's still some spots where we probably could have figured out by day three or four that were going to be needs that were never addressed and i kind of don't understand why still and somebody asked let me display it on the screen here. Who was it? Sorry. Scrolling. This is what you guys get for actually showing up. Patrick was asked about the guard play and it hadn't been very good. And just are they considering a free agent?

And there's no way they can feel confident. But we knew that by the first preseason game. So those are the things that I think I would downgrade them for. And I would probably land on a B overall. But it's two separate grades for me. It's like an A over here with the players and coaches, and then a C for what, I mean, or an incomplete for the front office probably.

Yeah, I agree that it's kind of two separate things. And you asked me the question, I'm just thinking like, what am I seeing on the field? And I think that's B plus, maybe creeping into A-minus territory. But you're right. It is strange that the front office has handled this or not handled this situation or certain situations the way that they have.

It's odd to me that Kweisi Adafomensa seems just really reluctant to hand out any sort of long-term contract to anybody. And I guess I get it to some extent. Like a lot of times those don't go particularly well and you don't get a whole lot of excess value and you got to figure out the salary cap. And he wants to, you know, use his leverage and be patient and do things like that.

But at a certain point, I mean mean obviously with Justin Jefferson like you just want to get that done well if you don't get it done you wait till next year and he goes out and he does what he's been doing the first three years of his career which there's no indication that he won't do again like the price is just going to go up so I don't see how that really helps and and then you're you risk it being awkward where he's going into the potential fifth year option and maybe he feels disrespected that they didn't extend him after his third year or whatever with TJ Hawkinson I guess I get it to some extent if there was a report that Hawkinson wants a historic contract that's gonna kind of reset the market at a tight end and I don't know

if he's that kind of guy but he's in position to do it with his age and with what he did in the second half of last season so I I guess I get being patient there but that's another weird thing now where they've spent all offseason talking up how important T.J. Hawkinson is to what they want to do on offense Kevin O'Connell specifically has talked about that a bunch and now there's this whole situation where he had an ear infection and now he's got back stiffness and I don't know when we're going to see him, and he says he's going to be ready for week one, but it's kind of an odd dynamic. So, yeah, it's a strange thing with the front office.

I think incomplete is the right way to structure it because they still have time with Jefferson. They still have time with Hawkinson. There's more than two weeks until week one. These things can kind of go up until right before the season starts. We saw that with Dalvin Cook and Brian O'Neill, I believe. It's possible. And then I think we were talking about this a little bit just really briefly before we started recording. This roster could look pretty different one week from right now. And last year quesadilla fomensa

trades for jaylen rager he trades for ross blacklock there's a few surprise cuts there's just always kind of things that you can keep an eye out for where it's not as simple as we're going on tuesday we're going from 90 to 53 and then out of those 37 cuts we'll sign 16 to the practice squad like no you're constantly perusing and you've got a whole scouting department that's looking at preseason tape from every other preseason game in the league and they're studying the analytics and putting these players into their models and finding players with really fast 10 yard splits in the 40 because that's what this front office seems to love and this there's gonna be guys that get cut by other teams that they bring in there's probably going to be a trade or two if Adolfo Mensah's past is any indication so I would give it incomplete there's still some veteran free

agents out there that they've brought in for visits that they now have um kind of some good information on Kareem Hunt Dalton Reisner like and a whole bunch of other guys that you could bring in for a visit and see if they fit so there's still some holes on this roster I think guard which was brought up is, is an obvious one. I think cornerback depth and running back depth and a few other spots, but there's time for this roster to change before week one against Tampa Bay. So digits brings this up. Is it possible the last administration broke stuff so badly with old players,

bad contracts and cap issues that it will take more years to deal with it all. They certainly have still been working their way through it, but this off season was a huge, huge step forward in dealing with all of that by moving on from some of those older players. And they are going to have a good amount of dead cap hit for next year because of it. If Kirk cousins leaves a big portion is his but then you know not the only ones uh that are going to have some of that dead cap space and then you have some boy

years mixed in that if you don't keep a marcus davenport or whatever if you end up cutting him uh you know that i don't know how that's going to play out i think he's looked pretty good but if you know it doesn't work out then you're taking on more dead cap and so forth so they are still working their way through what happened with the previous front office. But in my mind, this was the offseason where they became Kweisi Adafomense's roster. I just think that we might be dealing with a different way of handling things than with the previous regime, because with the previous regime, the circumstances were just different. It was you went to the NFC championship in 2017. Now you are going back or you're under pressure every single year, which means, oh, this guy

wants a little bit more money or he's going to want out. Okay. We got to give it to him. It means, oh, uh, Daniel Hunter got hurt. We have to make a trade for Yannick and Gawkway. Uh, we're nervous about our kicker and punter. So we got a kicker and a punter. Irv Smith got hurt. And even though Tyler Conklin was good and we all freaking knew it, they go and get Chris Herndon. Like, I don't know. Those were bad things to be that desperate.

But now when they're moving at a different pace and they're being more deliberate and maybe a little more discerning, then we're like, Hey, what are you doing? But I think that's justified. I'm not saying you're wrong for feeling that way. You got to figure this out with Justin Jefferson. There's no two ways about this. There might be a Hawkinson debate about 17 plus million.

But I also take some of that at a little bit grain of salt because, I mean, it's pretty clear where it comes from when they're saying, oh, he wants to reset the tight end market. Like, okay, well, did a team tell you that? You know, I'm sure his agent would say, no, we don't. We want a very reasonable offer. So maybe his agent needs to get into a reporter's ear as well. But the point just being that you do have to get some of these done. You can't just sort of slow play everything.

And I think it hurt them ultimately to slow play Delvin, to slow play Zedarius Smith, because they didn't have the flexibility to sign some other players. And now we're sitting here going, ooh, guard, ooh, depth pass rusher, ooh, corner. Like these are things that if they had moved on from those guys earlier, maybe you could have addressed. And so it's like a double-edged sword to all of that. I guess I,

I it's a new approach that we're all sort of getting used to, but I thought by this time, at least one of those guys would be signed to an extension. And I also thought if you're bringing in those players for free agent visits, that would be clear upgrades. How long do you want to wait before you're going to pull the trigger? Like how much more do you need to see

out of Ty Chandler or Dwayne McBride to be sure about that now? How ready are they going to be to actually play for your team? Yeah, you're right that it is. It is a different approach. And you brought up kind of the previous regime and Rick Spielman where it was,

we're going to draft player. And Rick Spielman, to his credit, was really consistently pretty good in the draft. So they would draft these players. They would turn into pro bowl caliber players, and then they would reward their own. And they would, Dalvin Cook, Brian O'Neill, Daniil Hunter, Everson Griffin, Stefan, like the list goes on and on. They would reward those guys and give them big contracts that weren't like resetting the market at their positions, but we're paying them pretty handsomely for what they had accomplished and keeping them

around and trying to build continuity and all these things. And then there's another, and some of those didn't age well, just at all. I mean, the Dalvin Cook one stands out the most. There's the other complete other side of the spectrum of what we've seen so far from Kweisi Rafa Mensah, which is a real hesitancy to lock into big money commitments for several years. And even his free agency signings, it's been all about flexibility. It's let's give Byron Murphy a two-year deal. Let's give Marcus Davenport a one-year deal. Like even with Zedaria Smith, when they first signed him, it was a three-year deal without like they, and I think Kwe think quesadilla has done a good job

if you look at the 2024 salary cap and you look at the 2025 salary cap and like after a few dead cap hits next year like there's not a lot there there's a lot of flexibility here that they've built but at some point you gotta like pick a direction and and and find some some key cornerstone guys to keep around that you're going to use that salary cap space that you've created to pay them and i think they're gonna there's no doubt that they want to pay justin jefferson and they want to keep him around like that's not a discussion even it's it's i guess they're still sticking to kind of the terms that they want to have there but they're going to try to make that happen.

Eventually the, the Hawkinson thing is definitely a debate because of kind of the positional value stuff with tight end and how much are you comfortable giving him? And you have the leverage of he can play off this year. We could tag him next year for a reasonable price. He'd let him walk and get a comp pick. Like I get, I get that. But with Derisaz coming down the line,

at some point there's kind of a happy medium you want to find where you're not handing out five, six-year deals to everybody like Rick Spielman was, but you're paying your positionally valuable cornerstone guys to keep them around so you're not suddenly having to look to try to replace them I don't know how TJ Hawkinson exactly fits into all of that I think he in on his from his perspective he showed in the second half last year that he was a really important piece of this offense with the blocking and with just kind of being the number two target and taking stuff away from Justin Jefferson and taking advantage when defenses are are heavily shading towards Justin Jefferson but like when you have Jordan Addison in the picture

now how how crucial is Hawkinson to what you wanted you have Josh Oliver as well who can is not nearly the same level of receiver but he's a better blocker and so it's it's all an interesting puzzle and I'm curious to see over the course of the next year to where Kweisi Dafa-Mensah kind of settles in in terms of how he views long-term roster building. You know what's interesting to me is that this is also part of something happening here with players where they are pushing back in ways that we haven't seen as much recently. So maybe one a year in the off season, it was like Khalil Mack or something is sitting out training camp. But for the most part, I don't think you were seeing it all around the league in the aggressive ways that

it has happened this off season. So Sarah is asking about trading for Jonathan Taylor. I mean, I think it'd be fun as hell, but I mean, if they, you know, you just probably don't have the capital to give up for the future. And it would, I mean, they'd be a great offense if you did. And maybe, maybe there's a small argument to do it. And let me just real quick, and I'll get back to the point. The small argument would be you give yourself a chance to win the Superbowl. If you could be in the top five and offense. And if that guy was the best version of himself If you could be in the top five and offense. And if that guy was the best version of himself, you might be in the top five and offense. That's no,

no, I'm not saying I advocate doing that, but the point just being that you have Jonathan Taylor trying to force his way out. Andy Reed saying, he's not sure if Chris Jones is going to play. I haven't heard anything about Josh Jacobs. There's been just a lot of these.

And now you have TJ Hawkinson with every ailment under the sun. We had, real gout controversy on the show the other day when I made a joke about that's what's coming next. And then I looked up what that is, and that sounds horrible, and I'm sorry. But the point is we have him skipping camp in a hold-in situation, it appears appears over this time and even Daniel Hunter, who had never fought back this way, even at least pressing back against the team a little bit until he got a lot of cash in his pocket. And I just think it's part of a larger trend with players who in this CBA have really kind of had a handed to him for the most part by the owners, except unless you're a quarterback and a handful of superstar players. So a lot of guys who are really good like hockinson jacobs taylor but are not mahomes necessarily i think they're trying to fight for every dollar they can get for and and i don't think we can just say no you didn't extend them so

you fail uh to the front office because there's two parties that have to negotiate here yeah for sure it's that's what's tough about the whole conversation with tj hockathon is like you can you can say hey quacey hurry up and get this done this guy is an important part of our future but like if they're asking for a certain amount it's become very clear that quacey and this regime they're not gonna just give in and give them that and they're gonna they have kind of their their plan their time horizon and and here's here's a number that we can fit you in on we might meet you in the middle a little bit but we're we're this is our number this is our range that that we are willing to go to so yeah I I don't I don't know what ends up happening there

I think it's it's entirely possible that nothing happens and Hawkinson goes into the season and he just plays and and it's it's fine and you figure it out from there and it's not ideal for TJ Hawkinson certainly but I think that's that's a quite a possible outcome of this Jefferson is is a different thing because I mean he's earned the extension he's eligible for an extension but he's not going into a contract year but man I mean, he's earned the extension. He's eligible for an extension, but he's not going into a contract year. But, man, I mean, the future of this team is just so uncertain, which makes it a really exciting time period. Like this season is going to look a lot like last season did roster-wise. There were some minor tweaks.

But you look at next offseason, and Kirk Cousins is going to be a free agent, and Daniel Hunter is going to be a free agent, and to a lesser degree, Marcus Davenport is going to be a free agent and Daniel Hunter is going to be a free agent and to a lesser degree Marcus Davenport is going to be a free agent and KJ Osborne and as of right now TJ Hawkinson like there's a lot of important parts of this currently constructed 2023 team that are not locked in beyond this season so that gives them a lot of flexibility and and that can be a good thing or it could turn into a bad thing and your roster gets a lot worse next year I don't know how it's gonna end up um but I don't know for right now I'm just looking forward to to kind of seeing well I'm not looking forward to this last preseason game if I'm being honest because it's just gonna be a lot of like Jaron Hall and third and fourth

stringers but you know good opportunity for them but i'm looking forward to next week and roster cut down day and the possibility of trades and the possibility of free agent signings and um just kind of wheeling and dealing roster movement and i'm curious how that all comes together this year and then if we do see before week one any real extensions that start to shape 2024, 2025. Guess what I'm doing? For all my road trips, I'm figuring out what other sports games I can go to. And you know who's giving me a huge hand with this? Is game time. Buying tickets to your favorite events

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and images are shown of your seats. You get the lowest price guarantee and event cancellation protection. Download the GameTime app, create an account, and use the code INSIDER for $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply. Yeah, I really should have named this podcast something different than previewing the final preseason game because that is not what we've done at all nor is it that interesting in comparison to the bigger picture of this team which i think is one of the most fascinating in the nfl i but i guess the way i'm trying to do it is what we asked people to do at the beginning of camp so we did a podcast and got bit by mosquitoes outside of tco performance center remember i remember it all too well, as Taylor Swift said.

And we talked about how there was going to be patience required here, that this wasn't going to be something that was going to happen likely fast and that could play out way longer than any of us wanted to. But also, think about the way they handled Delvin Cook, where they waited and waited and waited and waited. And it got really hilarious by the end. And also by the way, the national reporting on this team has not been good. I mean, it's not been accurate to be honest. It just hasn't like when there are reports that they're going to trade or they're looking into Daniel Hunter trades. And then the next day they

sign them to a big, you know, contract, uh contract for this year and this year only. That's just not accurate. A lot of people reported that they were looking into places to trade Delvin Cook where he'd be used best or whatever, and they ended up cutting him. So in some ways, and it's not about the reporters specifically who those people are, it's just been how dialed in or how much is getting leaked that actually ends up playing out the way that it does. And I don't know that that's been really the case as much as it was maybe in some previous years. So that's where I don't want to overreact to these things and say like, oh man, I just can't believe that you haven't gotten these done. But there also is a part of me that's like, you better make sure you keep these, some of these players, because you aren't winning anything.

If you don't have great players on this offense, even if you, you better make sure you keep some of these players because you aren't winning anything if you don't have great players on this offense, even if you're the next quarterback. We are so early in the Jefferson process, but you really don't want what happened with San Francisco and Nick Bosa where it's sitting out training camp and then you never know where it goes from there. So that's been, I think, as interesting as anything that has happened on the field.

And Jordan asked, do we think that Hawkinson is betting on himself? I don't think so. I think what Hawkinson is doing is that he's looking at how he performed last year as a Viking, projecting that out saying, if you guys are going to throw to me 125 times and I'm going to catch 90 passes,

I want to get paid 17 plus million dollars. Like guys who have those types of numbers. And I think they're saying, how about 15 million? And they are not able to close that gap. That's kind of how I look at this. But we also need to keep in mind, as of right now, they can tag him and he's on the team for next year. So there's a lot of things that are at play here. But I do want to ask about the preseason game not because i

think it's going to be good or exciting or interesting but i wonder about if there's anybody on the field that you think it matters for like who does it matter for in this final preseason game man it's it's tough because like i was saying it's it's gonna be like these third and fourth stringer guys and not even a lot of twos i would imagine and i just i just don't know how much you can do in a saturday noon preseason game against the arizona cardinals to really swing the decision based on comparing that to the previous month's body of work or even several months body of work dating back to otas and rookie minicamp and whatever if that player has been here the whole time but there are guys like you think about maybe brandon powell and

jalen rager play and that that competition for punt returner slash wide receiver six continues maybe tristan jackson gets out there and i think thayer thomas like i'm just thinking kind of by position here i think he's pretty securely on like the practice squad i don't know if there's really any way for him to make the roster he had another one where i look over today and he just absolutely shaked the cardinals defensive back out of his boots like that that guy can run routes but just with this wide receiver room we saw Nikhil Harry get waved because he was hurt like I just don't think Thayer Thomas can crack that I don't know like defensive backs defensive like all across the roster if you're a guy who's not clearly getting cut and not clearly on the team you know it

probably does matter and maybe it's not i'm gonna swing a decision because i imagine the vikings are already drawn up the 53 i mean obviously on the 53 like on the whiteboard like you see in hard knocks with other teams like they they're already planning out who's going to be on this roster maybe you can you can swing it a little bit but it also matters because if you put good tape out there in this game then maybe some other team will notice and give you a shot so i think it matters to pretty much everybody that's going to be out there playing and is going to be kind of fighting for their football future yeah i think this is one of those um you're trying out for all 32 teams type of games for most people but i am curious about i i i'd like to see at some point and who's playing

quarterback might hurt this, but at some point, Tristan Jackson get a chance to really play in a game because we've talked to talk to him up about his training camp a lot, but he got what, like three targets. And, um, you know, that's about it for the preseason game. And one of them was, it was a weird drop because you couldn't see on TV how the timing was thrown off by him slipping on the route. But like, still, it just hasn't had a chance to go out there and do something that would say, put me on the roster. So is somebody going to kind of make enough plays to demand they're on the roster? How much anybody plays will probably tell us a lot. Are we going to see Ty Chandler?

Because that probably means someone else is coming in here. But then again, they don't exactly have a ton of running backs to really use, but they can use the XFL guys and so forth. If he's out there playing, I don't know. That doesn't mean that to me, that means they don't feel that great about him. But there isn't really going to be a whole lot to take out of this preseason game. And even when it comes to the roster surprise cuts, everyone always wants to know who you think could be the surprise cut. And I always say, well,

then it won't be a surprise if I could figure it out. But I got nothing for this roster. I mean, I don't even have candidates. Cause I know that people are just asking for like, who could it be? But I got nothing. I mean, Jordan Hicks would have been the guy when you came into camp, like, wow, if he really falls off the face of the earth, it's not like they owe him a lot of money or something and whatever, but there was never a candidate to take

his job. So I can't even figure out who anyone would be. That would be a surprise because they're usually either older veterans that may have lost it, or they are younger guys that you think they're going to give them longer. Can a Wong Wu, but that but that doesn't i don't know are you cutting one of the best kick returners in the league because he's injured i probably not i mean i i don't know i i honestly cannot figure out who a surprise cut would be yeah none none jump out to me either i think kenny wong woo i think he probably ends up on PUP or IR or something to start the year I just I mean I don't know if we even know what this injury is I think maybe lower body but it's just been been lingering forever I mean yeah I couldn't pick out

who a surprise cut I agree with your point though, that it's, it's just as much about watching whoever's out there and seeing if anybody stands out or whatever, as it is just who plays. And that, that will be notable. I mean, Ty Chandler is a good example. Andrew Booth Jr. I mean, I imagine probably plays and that's somebody where they want to continue evaluating. Like does Ivan Pace Jr. even play as a, usually you'd think this is going to be the time for the undrafted rookies. He's no longer in that camp.

He is now competing to be a starter camp. I don't know if he plays at all. Maybe if they just want more reps in this scheme, but I would guess no. So then you're talking about Wilson Hoover and a bunch of just other random linebackers playing. Yeah, it's going to be who plays, doesn't play what will be notable um does can anybody stand out and yeah i don't know it's tough to come up with like oh get pumped for this noon pre-season finale i mean it'll be it'll be interesting to watch jaron hall and you hope

that he can i think i thought he took small steps of progress from game one to game two. And you'd like to see that continue. But again, it's tough to evaluate Jaron Hall in the context of he's playing behind a third string offensive line and he's throwing to third string wide receivers. And it's just it tends to be sloppy football. So it's hard to kind of figure out how well he's executing his part of all of that. I don't know. I, I, I'm sure all the diehards and the sickos are going to be tuned into this

and I'm going to be there and the press while you're going to be there, like we're going to be watching, but I just don't know how much it really matters. Yeah. It's okay. That I'll be recovering uh, recovering from, although, you know, I'm not a Vegas partier, but, uh, the change of, uh, the time change messes with me. When I go from West coast to central, it feels like someone took something from me

when I, right. When you like, uh, when you get out of here, you're like, Oh, two more hours. This is awesome. But then when you lose them on the way back, I hate that. Uh, so I'm going to be dealing with the time change and then waking up to go to a noon game. That's just weird. And then if the Cardinals coach calls a timeout in the fourth quarter, I may throw something on the field, like out of frustration, like Tennessee did. It's not going to be great. If you're going go early, see the warmups, try to have fun with your kids. Otherwise, there's probably not going to be a whole lot to see. I am curious how Jaron Hall looks, but shout out to the Dorian

Thompson Robinson people. Good for you guys. I can't tell you how many people were in the mentions and the comments being like, hey, what do you think of Dorian Thompson Robinson? And my answer was usually, well, I actually watched a lot of him. You know, Pac-12 After Dark is built for me, and I really enjoyed watching him play, but I thought, well, I actually watched a lot of him. You know, Pac-12 after dark is built for me.

And I really enjoyed watching him play. But I thought, well, you know, fifth round, I don't even really have much to say. But he balled out in preseason and he won the number two job in Cleveland. So shout out to all you people who were DTRs. I do want to circle back here. Oh, I was just going to say, I don't think anything is left on the line. I think they've decided everything. And the most interesting story between now and cut down day is, are there any trades and what positions are they trying to fill?

But even then, I think we figured that out by now. It would be depth running back. It might be a cornerback if they're not super thrilled with like Jawan Williams being the backup. It might be an offensive lineman. So that's kind of where we're at. And then we'll see if there's any surprises but i do want to circle back to this uh digits and and digits you're one of my

favorite commenters so uh you said you know you're buying uh tickets and nfl merchandise and stuff and the prices are astronomical and then guys pull crap like this uh before the season you're talking about hockinson it's a big F you to fans. I have never looked at it that way. And I don't think you'll ever convince me to look at it that way. First of all, TJ Hawkinson doesn't set those prices. TJ Hawkinson didn't sign the collective bargaining agreement. He doesn't set the salary cap.

TJ Hawkinson has a very limited number of years in his life to maximize what his worth is. And his agent has the job to maximize what his client's worth is. If we start talking about what players make in all sports, let's go over, look at the NBA where Cole Aldrich made like $10 million to be the 13th guy on the Minnesota Timberwolves. Like none of it makes any sense in the terms of what reality is. And none of it is fair to fans. I a hundred percent agree that it is not fair to charge the prices they do to where if you want to go to a football game, it better be a preseason game because you can't afford it. I don't, I don't respect at all what they ask fans to pay for jerseys. I mean, if they print the logo on this Pepsi bottle, they will charge you 47 bucks for it. And that is BS,

but that's not what TJ Hawkinson did. TJ Hawkinson is comparing his worth to his peers. And that's what his agent's job is to do. And he's only going to be able to do this. Jerry Jones can own the Dallas Cowboys for a lifetime. Whereas TJ Hawkinson could be a tight end for maybe eight to 10 years and maximize what he's worth. So that that's the, that's how the world works. And also digits and to everybody else who made a similar comment, I root for you to get paid more too, by your boss. I think, I mean, everybody, I, you know, I mean, I don't have a boss, but I always root for everybody who's doing the work to get as much as their worth. So that's something that I just, I don't look at, I look at players.

When you have a CBA and I'm sorry, we'll to go on this rant, but when you have a CBA that went out of its way, that went out of its way to restrict players from having any way to go against owners, to try to use any tool to get more and to like have any leverage at all to eliminate that it went out of its way to eliminate that what are players supposed to do i mean if it eliminated essentially the holdout then you have to take other routes so i don't want to hold this against tj hawkinson at

all i mean this is how negotiations work and also it always drives me insane how many people always want to like side against the very good player who it'll probably get worked out with anyway. So we'll see how it ends up going. But I just horse feathers. I look two hours younger. Yeah, that's I don't think that's how that works. But anyway, it's just that's that's just the TJ Hawkinson has every right to get what he's worth compared to his peers in the NFL. And I hope it works out as well, because I've been very much on the side that they should sign him. And I also think with Kweisi Adafo-Mensa, he just doesn't work being like under pressure.

You know, I mean, I think that he doesn't work on the timeline like Spielman did, where it was like, got to get it done. Got to get it out the first week of camp. Got to give them what they need because we're trying to win. It's just a different situation than it was before, where I think he can hold the line on a price more than maybe Spielman could in the past. So sorry, Will, that's the rant. No, I like the rant. I don't have much to add onto it. I'm with you i i think with with the amount of the sheer amount of money that the owners make i will always be on the on the side of the players maximizing their worth and you know these teams can just cut you or restructure your contract or do whatever at a moment's notice and kind of force you to be okay with that or say that you're going

to be gone i think a r Riley reef as an example of that. So I'm with, I'm, I'm all for the players maximizing their, their worth and getting as much as they can. And selfishly, I would like to watch TJ Atkinson in this offense for years to come because I think he fits really well with Justin Jefferson, but if it doesn't work out between the two sides and he ends up somewhere

else and the Vikings just do something else at tight end, then I think they can probably make that work, too. So we'll see. So, yeah, I see that, you know, T. Kubler in the comments mentioning that, you know, he's not as good as some of the other top tight ends and talking about resetting the market. Resetting the market is clearly leaked language for a reason. So, like, take just do not take that that seriously. You don't know and I don't know what their agent is actually asking for. I think it's clear that there's a gap in the price.

But I also think that TJ Hawkinson is a very good player. And so I wouldn't put him up there with George Kittle either. I think George Kittle is one of the best players of like the last 10 years. Travis Kelsey's probably a top five tight end, maybe in history. He's, he's been that great with Patrick Mahomes. So yeah, I mean, those guys are underpaid probably as well. It's complicated, but you can see also how, you know, sometimes teams play the game with that reset the tight end market, uh, you know, sort of it as don't just think of it as like tj hawkinson wants and even if even if he said this or not like the idea of resetting the market don't evaluate it

as he's not better than travis kelsey so why he shouldn't do that like first of all travis kelsey is like 35 and tj hawkinson is 26 or 27 or whatever he is like these are very different situations it's it's rarely at one time the absolute best player who is the the highest paid because it's the older guy who like got paid and then is no longer the best player like matt ryan or whatever or derrick carr or like these are guys who have at one point been the highest paid quarterback in NFL history or whatever it is like these market and all these things are just kind of they're strange and they're tied to your age and projecting your future performance and your past performance and all of these different things. So that's something that I've just seen in my mentions when like people are talking like, oh, he's not better than Mark Andrews and Travis Kelsey. Why should he get paid like that? And first of all, we don't know if that's actually what they're asking for. And second of all, like think about the age and think about projecting and things like that.

That's all I'll say. I guess. Yeah. And those are all great points. And I just think I'm trying to like caution against seeing the language of one report from one reporter and just thinking that we know everything about the negotiation. Like, I just don't think that that's the case because we saw that word resetting the tight end market, which seems intentional. So that's just, that's just my feeling on it. And we'll see how it plays out. The other thing is you have a franchise tag with Hawkinson next year. And so there is still leverage from the teams aside, but there, I just think that there are more players going along this sort of route.

And it's something that we're going to see as we go into the future. And it's something that the front office is going to have to work with in order to be successful. All right. We'll predict the final score of Viking. No, I'm just kidding. Let's see. Hold, hold on. Matt's got a question. I wonder if the cardinals play uh josh dobbs who they just traded for probably probably not but that's an interest that's a fascinating team is entirely separate thing but like could be since the start of training

camp they just traded or not not since the start of joint practices this week they just traded away isaiah simmons and josh jones like this team is just all bold faced tanking before the season even starts and now they're gonna maybe have josh dobbs be their tank commander or i mean it could be could still be colt mccoy i don't know but that is a team that wants caleb williams right there i'll tell you that yeah uh a nice little jv squad to practice against for a couple of days hey should the should the Vikings have traded for Isaiah Simmons? Seventh round pick. I don't know.

Maybe. Right. He could have just walked over to the locker room. He wouldn't have. It's true. I just, I feel like, I feel like they should have got like,

I don't know. Isaiah Simmons is probably terrible, but if there's somebody they've been taking shots on all these bus draft picks. So like, why not just real quick, we'll fit this one in uh could you talk more a bit about quacey and how not vocal he is to fans and media seems like other gms are a lot more vocal so we'll left get we're left guessing he has not done a ton oh and then there's a second part of the question do you feel

the vikings have a vision right now they seem like they're just playing season to season versus a three-year plan so uh two things one I would say in terms of media availabilities it's on the lower side of the NFL he has not talked more than Rick Spielman and maybe even a tad less but probably about the same um so but I do feel like if you look at the press conference and this is from our perspective of going to everything, the press conference before training camp, I thought he was very open about what competitive rebuilding is. And I do feel like they have a very clear vision. And whether it's going to work, I don't know.

But the vision was to try to win last year, do everything you can to win last year, and then remove a lot of the older parts and try to get the cap right. Not lock yourself into a quarterback in the future, get a new quarterback in 2024, and then try to do all the things that everybody does with a new quarterback in the draft, which is hit on that player and then build around with the salary cap and the space that you get. So, I mean, I think that it has been kind of from the outset when he first said competitive rebuild exactly what we thought it was going to be. And the overall vision I've been very much bought into the details, not always, but the overall vision, I think, is as right as you can be when your owners won't let you tank. Yeah, I agree. I think that sums it up pretty well

as they took over a foundation or not really a foundation, but like a baseline of talent and roster kind of pieces that were already there and they tried to win with it and they did win with it and they won 13 games in the NFC North

and they set this foundation and then they stripped some of the aging parts of it down and they won 13 games in the AFC North and they set this foundation and then they stripped some of the the aging parts of it down and and they're moving forward and it it all hinges as we always talk about all hinges on can you hit on the quarterback and if they can hit on the quarterback next year or in two years or or whenever and and get that guy and have the ultimate roster building cheat code of a really talented quarterback on a rookie contract then the possibilities are endless you can build up from there and they've given themselves the flexibility to do so by not locking in a whole lot of money if really any for 2025 and beyond so yeah we don't we don't know if it's going to work but i think it's you can see the vision

of what quesadilla fomenta wants to do and how he kind of has started this offseason in particular to build this thing in his own image in in the way that he came in wanting to do it um and now we'll see in the next year two years three years four years if it if it kind of if his plan works out yeah so i i mean we could answer questions all day. I know you've got things to write. Also, my friend Lindsey Brown is here. I don't know if you've ever met. Did you ever meet Lindsey when you were here? Maybe you didn't cross over in the media. She worked with me at fifteen hundred ESPN and she works in radio out here now, which I'm really excited to hang out with her in a few minutes. But I just wanted to say that, I mean, there's I mean,

when it comes to this issue in particular, the 2022 draft is they have a vision, but the main issue is they, they whiffed on the draft. Every single team better fire their GM. Then, I mean, I look, we have lots of questions. We don't have, we don't have time to just like go into all this. We questioned it at the outset. We had criticisms at the outset, but i don't know what team hasn't had a bad draft the the vikings before their 2017 season had a horrible draft in 2016 like every draft is not going to go great probably a first impression jordan addison and mckay blackman have turned out as good as you could have asked for their first two picks they're starting and they look

good so i don't know i mean that's drafting for you anyway i think that there are some time i would say give give him more than give give quasi more than one draft class i just think we have to work on what we can criticize quasi enough omens for and what we can't and i think there are some people that have leaned very heavily on one thing that that draft which i understand but i think you can you can criticize yes not not only the pick of lewis scene but the decision to go from 12 to 32 and pass up on kyle hamilton and jordan davis and a bunch of other players like i think you can criticize that that's fair but don't let that be the one thing that you look at in the entire body of work like he brought in tj

hockinson in a trade he drafted jordan addison like there's been there's been plenty of good as well from quacey it's it's still been at this point like 18 months or whatever 20 months since he took over so let's let's see how this season plays out and let's give give him a little time to to cook and to kind of build this thing up. I just think that people will never accept ever, ever, just in all football, that every team is about the same ability at drafting with only tiny little differences. And it's sometimes you hit and sometimes you don't. And if Louis seen turned into a really good player by right now, it'd be like, what a good draft. They got two players in the secondary, but it hasn't worked out. So that's not to excuse the decisions. Right now, they'd be like, what a good draft. They got two players in the secondary, but it hasn't worked out.

So that's not to excuse the decisions. It's just to say that that's how drafting is. And I think we want to look at the bigger picture, not just one draft to decide what we think of a general manager. So anyway, well, you're the best. This went longer than expected, but great, great questions and great commentary from everybody in the comment section, which always is great for the show. So thanks, Will. And we will, we'll talk to you soon, man. Yeah, let's do it. All right. And thank you all for watching. I forgot we were live just there. I was like, Oh, all right, cool. And then we'll just chat after. Nevermind. We're live. Okay.

I'll see you. But this is my last show for today from Vegas. And I will be here tomorrow doing some more shows as well. So we'll see you guys this is my last show for today uh from vegas and i will be here tomorrow doing some more shows as well so we'll see you guys then keep your eye on the channel as well