Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Dillon Gabriel starts vs. Vikings, another O-line injury????? (Part 2)

Episode Date: October 2, 2025

Matthew Coller talks with Vikings fans about the Browns' choice to start Dillon Gabriel and Michael Jurgens missing practice. JJ McCarthy isn't practicing, what's next? The Purple Insider podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Chris says, what are your thoughts on how KOC has talked about McCarthy? It feels different than in the past. In the past, he was way more excited and confident. Now, not so much. Yeah, so last week when I brought this up, it's a great question, Chris. When I brought this up last week, it was not received well. But I felt the same way with the way that the questions have been answered by Kevin O'Connell since J.J. McCarthy got hurt and since the game against Atlanta, they had a very

different tone. And the quote that I have to keep going back to is when he was asked if McCarthy is QB1 when he gets healthy. And he said something about luckily, I don't have to answer that question right now. It was like, really? Because after joint practices, you couldn't wipe the smile off of Kevin O'Connell's face. He was so happy with J.J. McCarthy. And then you go to the locker room following the game against Chicago and yeah, it was as ugly as it was in the first half, but they played four quarters for a reason. And he was, that wasn't fake. That happened. He was clutch. He made great throws. He ran. You know, I thought the JTO Sullivan breakdown told a pretty clear story about that first game where it was a lot of mistakes. It wasn't just McCarthy.

And it was against Atlanta as well. But the tone has definitely been a little bit different. The tone has not screamed at any point, guys, I cannot wait to get our starting quarterback back, like Carson is our backup and he's doing a great job, but, who, man, we need JJ back and I can't wait. There hasn't been that tone. And O'Connell can be a little tricky to read sometimes because there's a lot of words. Like, he loves to give you a complete and full answer that covers every part of the question and sometimes meanders off into other areas that you, you know, maybe weren't asking about like that happens with o'connell but there hasn't been a directness to this and just in general as i've done this for how many years i've always thought that the more direct

the answer the more true it was likely to be so with with mike zimmer uh if you asked mike zimmer you know didn't you want to get a look at kellen mond and he says i see him in practice every day well that's the truth right and we got a lot of truth from mike zimmer at the podium because he was a very direct person and we would know where somebody stood if he wasn't happy with Anthony Barr's effort he was just going to say something like he has a tendency to coast which was not something he should have said of course but that is Mike Zimmer so the point just being that what you were saying Chris maybe that was Kevin O'Connell sneaking in to in his his connected people trying to pull the cord on how indirect he's been about the McCarthy answers.

But I really, it really have felt like he's left the door potentially open to sticking with Carson Wentz this entire time. And I think they went past go with that after the loss to the Pittsburgh Steelers. You lose to the Steelers, it's very hard to convince me that it's going to be Carson Wentz the rest of the way who takes you to the playoffs and it's going to be one of those years and everything's going to be great and whatever, right? It's a 14 win season again or it's Case Keenum or like after that loss, I think that that air went out of that balloon.

Like that doesn't seem all that possible. So that's why you have to go back to J.J. McCarthy. But there has never been a direct, yes, we are going back to J.J. McCarthy when he is healthy. And that raises an eyebrow. It doesn't resolve everything, but it certainly raises an eyebrow. out for me. So, Chris, I think that's a good observation. And Chris followed up with, it's not the normal way you talk about QB1. And I agree. I mean, it's, if this was Kirk Cousins and Nick Mullins, then you would have been saying, yeah, well, Nick's doing a great job as our backup. And when Kirk comes back, like, it wouldn't even be really a question. But it is, and it was not answered directly. So I, yeah. Demad says, I think COC is upset with McCarthy, not as positive as before. It's just, it's a hard read. O'Connell can be a hard read sometimes about how he really feels about stuff because he is so good at talking that he doesn't really show his cards as much as someone like

Mike Zimmer who would just tell you. If he was mad at McCarthy, he'd be like, yeah, he's got to play better. He stinks. I'm mad at him. It would be that simple. But it's not with Kevin O'Connell. So trying to understand how he feels about this scenario with Wentz and McCarthy has been a little bit difficult. And I know a lot of people have not wanted to hear that. But the proof is just in how he's answered those questions that you do wonder if Wentz puts up 30 points and wins this game. Is he going to start against Philadelphia and start against the Chargers after that? Or is the plan to just go back to McCarthy? I think maybe the Chargers game, if they don't want him to start two games in a row,

on a short week, I understand, but also, it's the NFL. I mean, you're, you're going to have to have a tough schedule sometimes. You're going to have to have injuries sometimes. You can't just protect someone for the entire season or you'll never find the right time to do it. It's kind of like when you become an adult and you're trying to schedule things with your friends. And you just get so busy and there's a lot going on. And you're like, there's never, there's never a perfect time. You just got to figure out how you're going to do it, right?

and the same thing goes for this. But your guys, your guys read on that was kind of similar to mine, that it's not, hey, he hates this quarterback, but it's not the same tone as it was, even after week one was not perfect by any means. Let's see. C. Bakes says insanely depressing for all the discourse

we had in the offseason of a revamped offensive line. Only four weeks. We're talking about Juergens, Brandel, Huber and school getting significant time. I know, I know. And that is the challenge of the off season, right? Because all off season, what I said was, I don't want to talk about injuries. And we would get that comment and that question, hey, aren't you worried about injuries? And I would say, how can I know? Last year, I was worried about Aaron Jones in injuries. And he played 17 games. So I don't know. Like, we can never predict this,

stuff, but is it majorly disappointing to not be able to see it? I think the biggest part is that I think it would be really good, and I think it would make a huge difference. I think that a Derisaw, Jackson, Kelly, Fries, O'Neill, offensive line, would be one of the best offensive lines in the NFL. And I don't know if you're ever going to see it, which is very unfortunate. And that's where when I see people, well, you know, they may. made this mistake. They made that mistake. And I get it because you get to two and two.

It's not where you're supposed to be. The offense hasn't looked anywhere close. But I also think, gosh, who would have predicted that they would be out all of these guys? Jackson being as young as he is. O'Neill having a very positive health record for his career. I mean, how would you ever guess that you would be without this many players on offense? A couple, I think, of injuries would be expected, but not like this. Trona guy says three and two isn't bad considering the injuries and penalties. The penalties is, I think it's connected to that, though. Like a lot of the penalties have just been false starts, delay of game.

What do we got? Two delay of games. And I mean, how many false starts? Me, four, five. It's clear Daryasaw is just not 100% back into that. He's had a couple of penalties. That can't happen if you're going to play against the Browns team with this kind of defense. and they need to do better there.

But that's what happens when you're messed up up front as you end up with these penalties. Some of them have been kind of ridiculous. Two 15-yard penalties and neither one was deserving against Pittsburgh. There was the flop and then there was the retaliation. And even though I know you can't retaliate by smacking somebody in the face, he was getting his face mask dragged first. And, you know, I don't know.

It's like bad luck on that. But they've been one of the most penalized teams. in the league. So is that bad luck or is that something that they're going to do all year? Like we don't really know because they've, they've gone up and down under O'Connell. Sometimes they've been wildly penalized and sometimes they have not from year to year. And you just never really know. But I think there is a pretty clear explanation when you're playing with a bunch of guys that haven't played together on the offensive line and a backup center that some of those procedural penalties is what you're going to end up with at times.

But three and two, yeah, to your main point, three and two would be like, you know how we were talking about ties earlier where, and I don't know where this came from, whoever the first freak who said, it's like kissing your sister, I need an explanation. Like, I get what you're saying, but that's also a very weird thought to have. So, anyway, but being three and two would feel like a tie where you go, it's not the one. worst thing I've ever seen. It's definitely not the best thing I've ever seen. It's not where you expected to be considering who you were playing. And it's coming out of it with all the injuries and uncertainty about McCarthy and all those things. How it's looked matters. Having to be Cleveland to get to three and two, having looked so inept on offense for most of the season outside of Cincinnati, outside of when you're losing to Pittsburgh. But other than that, outside of one quarter

in, you know, Chicago, there's so much poor play offensively and knowing that, that feels a lot worse. If it was three and two and the offense had been functional or good and McCarthy was healthy the entire time and you were

saying, well, you know, the kid took his licks but here you go, second half of the season, turn that corner kid, it's time. If you had told me it played out that way, that McCarthy had played well and had a couple stinkers and then that's how you get to three and too, I would have said, okay, that's a good outcome.

That's fine. All right. But quarterback uncertainty, quarterback injury sets him back again for his development because now it feels like if he comes back against Philly, he's making his debut all over again because he's been out. And now the whole timing and the rhythm and all those things we're talking about, you're not getting the reps to be able to do that. And then who knows where you're going to be with Ryan Kelly.

If he's going to come back, he shouldn't. But if he does, you know, then Donovan Jackson, when is he going to return? O'Neill wins he going to return. What's it going to look like with so many questions going into the second half of the season? It feels very mad. It feels very, you know, it doesn't feel like, hey, three and two. Like, we're on our way. It doesn't feel that way.

One of the answers to the Fandul question of the day was how many points would the Vikings need to beat the Cleveland Browns? one of the answers was one. So I don't think you could get one. So I guess the answer would be two for you. Two points. If they get two, then they'll win. Mr. Mayor's answer is 16, which means you're taking the under. Rob's got 10 points being enough.

I think 10 might be a little low. I think they could get 10, like maybe a pick six or a Miles Garrett strip sack, return for a touchdown, a field goal, three field goals to get them to nine. So maybe you need 10. Or it could be 30 to 28 because we all know nothing about football. George says, has anyone told KOC, he doesn't have Stafford or even Kirk at quarterback, they both could stand in and fire and take the beating when the line fell apart. Yeah, I know.

And I felt the same way, George, when I was watching that tape back, there were times where I felt the same way. Like, do you know that you don't have Matthew Stafford a quarterback? Because if Matthew Stafford was the quarterback last week, the Vikings win by 30 points. There were enough open wide receivers. maybe that's an exaggeration but they they would there's a lot of mistakes there that got made and sacks and things like that that matt stafford would not have allowed to happen and there's some plays that go wrong where i think stafford just throws it into the dirt and he doesn't take the many sacks that he used to take when he was younger and was trying to make plays

but the number of times where he would have thrown with anticipation seeing guys breaking open but you're right like you just don't have that and that's been the disconnect with back up quarterbacks, whether it's Nick Mullins or Carson Wentz or Josh Dobbs, the disconnect has been the offense, the plays are there, but the quarterback can't make them work. And even J.J. McCarthy, if the quarterback can't make them work, then I don't, I don't think it's a good play. It's not a good play if the guy is wide open, but the quarterback is incapable of finding him. And that's what's been, I think, really challenging for KOC, is how do you pair it down? And sometimes there is no, there is no answer. Cincinnati with Jake Browning right now.

Like, there's just no answer. They can't block anyone. They can't do anything. There's nothing their coach can do about that. But I think there were some answers there against Pittsburgh. And they found them on a lot of plays and just did not finish drives and then lost the, let the game get away from them a little bit. And that's how they got down 24 to 6.

K Fow says, didn't Jeremiah mention stunts and twists is a problem. Oh, stunts and twists are a huge problem. And that's what happened last year. I mean, that's the main reason. Well, the Rams having freakish, unbelievable players is the main reason. But blitzes, stunts, and twists when you have backup offensive linemen in there are a nightmare because that's what takes a lot of communication. And when I was watching Ryan Kelly sort his way through stunts and twists, it was

something to see. I mean, it was magical at times. There's a touchdown that McCarthy threw. to Aaron Jones, where they run a really nice stunt and Ryan Kelly sees it the whole way, doesn't drift, braces for it, and just sticks the guy in place and slams him into the ground. It was like, ooh, that's some offensive line play, my friends. When Ryan Kelly's in there, he's usually really terrific. And he's great at that.

But he's not in there. And now you're trying to figure all that stuff out between a bunch of backup guys. those take not just communication but almost a understanding like an interconnectedness of an understanding of how to play those things where you're not because in the NFL if you're one step too far to one side and you leave too much space for one of these guys you're giving up a pressure like it really has to be precise how is it going to be precise if it's Blake Brandel at center and Joe Hubert left guard and if you know we'll see about Juergens but How is it going to be precise if that happens?

Those reps, that's the thing. You need them. Neil says seven. What is this, a 2-0 shutout? Chris was 17. Rob says he feel comfortable with 21 or 24. Demads got 10. Antoine thinks they need 30 to win the game.

Well, that means you're the person on the one side of the shoulder that is assuming that any new or young quarterback is going to end up with having a big against the Vikings. It is a myth, by the way, that backup quarterbacks beat the Vikings more than anybody else. It's a myth. I've gone, now you remember them when it's happened.

So you feel like it happens to us all the time. It's kind of like, what's the thing with, you know, everybody thinks that they're an above average driver, you know, more, but there's,

like if you said, where would you rank percentile-wise, most people would say, well, I'm above average driver, but most people can't be an above average driver. It doesn't match up. It's sort of like that with backup quarterbacks. Like, every team thinks, man, we always lose to those backup quarterbacks. But I looked at this one time.

It's not any more than usual. It's about one in four games that the Vikings play against the backups that they lose. And that's about how much backups win. I think there's a winning percentage for backups. I did this maybe two or three years ago is about 30 percent, win percent. when a team starts a backup quarterback, which is why, you know, if you win two out of three with Carson Wentz, you'll feel pretty good about it, I guess. But that's usually what happens when you're playing backups. But that means that one out of every three or four times, you get a

Matt Moore game and you lose to a backup quarterback. So it does happen. But I can see why the very memorable losses to backup quarterbacks would still sit in everybody's mind. Mr. Mayor, would it be hilarious if C.J. Ham turns out to actually be the secret ingredient to KOC's offense. Hey, look, a lot of the sacks are coming on third down. Ten of the 18 sacks have come on third down. And this is where C.J. Ham is going to play. Because, yeah, you might use Xavier Scott out there a little bit to catch the ball on third down.

You might put them in the slot. They did it last week. They actually used them in the slot, I think, on seven or eight. plays. And I was surprised by that, but he's being used as kind of a hybrid wide receiver. I remember someone asked, like, how much will they use him as a receiver in the off season? And my thought was, well, he's really a running back who can catch the ball. There's a reason he switched positions. But he was a true hybrid in that game and made a great toe tap. I mean, that's not a toe tap you see from a running back normally. That was a great

toe tap catch in the back of the end zone. Also, when you watch that play, so he actually beats Jalen Ramsey on that play because Jalen Ramsey is in what I mean what a moment for that guy's life right beating one of the best corners ever for a touchdown but what happened was Jalen Ramsey saw that it was a running back and he settled into his own and never thought the guy would go vertical so there's a little bit of an edge there but being able to block on third down is the key here third down passing situations and C.J. Hamm could could be a key I don't think he'll unlock the entire thing but they also could use them in the run game. With the backup offensive linemen, it could be helpful to line up in the eye formation and just play a little bit of old school here. David says this defense needs to play the run more schematically and expose their secondary to being better, especially with all the money and the investment on the defensive backfield, including the safety spots.

So the run defense during the game, I had the same feeling as you guys, which which was, I can't believe how bad this is. The fact that Kenneth Gainwell is cruising over you. And then when I watched it back, what I realized was, it was just a great job by Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh realized, and this is an offensive coordinator who won a lot of games with Ryan Tannahill playing exactly this way with Derek Henry.

Now, that's not Kenneth Gainwell. But what they did was they put six linemen out there and they just created a ton of size mismatches, where you had Ivan Pace out there and they've got six linemen and you've got you know Harrison Smith or Theo Jackson or whoever and they were just overloading one side they hand off to that side they've got a tight end they've got two tackles out there and they're just creating a wall and that's what they did and I wouldn't be surprised to see that more often and wouldn't be surprised to see Kevin Stephansky do it either is just create this

wall of humanity, although do they have six linemen and try to run behind it with Quinn John Quinyon Judkins, who is going to be, I think, the scariest player that the Vikings are going to face on their offense. It is a concern. I don't know that Harrison Phillips would have resolved all these problems or Jonathan Bullard. I think a big part of this is that Blake Cashman and Andrew Van Ginkle are great at rallying to tackle and they didn't have those guys. So that made a big difference.

They're very instinctual, very smart players. They're great at the actual tackle. The Vikings missed a lot of them. So I think they just not having those guys hurt them a lot. But it also was a defense that's built to pressure the quarterback more, cause turnovers, cause sacks. And when you're playing from down 24 to 6 or even 14 to 6, it just changes the game where Pittsburgh can say, we're going to throw in six linemen, we're going to run every play. We're going to throw two-yard passes.

And we're just going to wear you down. and make you deal with it. And that's what they did. It was a great job by them. Let's see. L.T. Rangers has watched another podcast breaking down film was shocked to see how many open receivers Wentz didn't see at times, staring down the first option, not progressing to the shorter checkdown to reads to the against the blitz to slow down

the blitz. No, yeah, I totally agree. And there were moments with Carson Wentz, as you're talking about. where he should have just pulled the trigger and didn't on plays that were there. And that's where the seeing ghost things happen. But that's where getting hit impacts your ability to play. I mean, the first drive, the first drive, he has Justin Jefferson and Jordan Mason wide open. And he takes a sack.

And it set the tone because he also got destroyed on the play. And it set the tone a little bit for the game where you just felt like he wasn't seeing it. and then you see some frustration from receivers. And this would happen with, it happened with Darnold a couple of times. It happened with Kirk a few times where, not more than a few times. We saw a lot of games like this with Kirk cousins,

where he just wasn't functioning the way that he needed to function in part because he was getting hit. And they never had a good offensive line in front of Kirk. The entire time he was here, maybe 20, 23, and then he gets hurt. They never had a good offensive line. and there would be games where he would get sped up and then come off of the reeds and it all plays into each other where you take that first hit and you miss somebody open and then it builds on that and builds on that but you're right like there were guys very much open down the field there was

a third down play where Jalen Naylor's coming out of a break nailer's been the best player who can't get the football he has been open a number of times there was one where maybe he's open for a touchdown. But this one, it was a third down. He's coming out of his break and Wence actually pulls up to throw it and then just didn't. And I have no idea why because it would have been the ideal throw a guy coming out of a break into a first down past the sticks. And then he just takes a sack. So there were times in that game where he just didn't see what he needed to see in order to have success in that game because the opportunities were there. And I'm sure as KOC was watching it back. That was his frustration.

The opportunities were there. Dennis says, what do you suppose Dylan will do to handle Flores' defense? I think that they'll try to slog it up. That's what they'll try to do. Like what happened last week was an offense just creating a big old slog, which is, hey, there's six yards, there's five yards, there's seven yards, and then, hey, someone broke a big play on a slant. That's what they're going to try to do with Dylan Gabriel.

It's going to be, hey, and Joku, there's seven yards. Fanon, there's seven yards. Here's Judkins, five yards. And you just, and look, field goal position is now the 40 yard line. And if they can get some field position, kick some field goals, it's possible that they can score some points. But I think that that's what Kevin Stefansky is not afraid to do. And we saw him do that when he was the Vikings offensive coordinator. In 2019, he was not afraid.

I don't, I don't know. I did I, maybe I just invented a term of slog it up, but he wasn't afraid to create that slow progressing type of offense that has a couple of three and outs hammering away at the defense. And eventually it starts to kind of chip away and chip away if your defense is playing well. I think that's what he's going to want to do. And then at the same time, I guess I wouldn't be shocked if they just try to take a couple of deep shots to Jerry Judy to see if they get hit a home run. KFT says is Huber, the back. up to Juergens. It sounded like from what Kevin Seifert was saying that it was going to be

Brandel. Brandl would make more sense. KFT is Felton a disappointment because he hasn't gotten on the field. He was really talked up in the offseason. Um, no, well, I mean, I, I guess he was talked up after the draft, but during training camp, I probably got 50 questions about where, why isn't Ty Felton getting more snaps and all that sort of stuff? But when you look at the receiver room right now, and I would like to see him. get the ball in his hands once or twice as a rotational player. But if you look at the receiver room at the moment with two star players and then Naylor has done well for them in the past and Adam Thielen's wide receiver four, it's like,

where are you going to exactly fit Felton in? I love what Felton has done on special teams and I think that he's developing. But it was clear during the offseason, he was a guy that was going to need work. And that's okay. I talk about this all the time of it's okay if a player's, develops. And when I watch different games around the league and like Quentin Johnston, who was just written off as the biggest piece of garbage ever and then like now he's good. I don't know. I mean, sometimes players develop and he was a higher draft pick. But it's okay if somebody needs a

year to play on special teams, get some work getting off the line of scrimmage, make tackles, contributing to the team in some way, returning. And then next year when Jalen Naylor leaves in free agency, then you elevate Ty Felton into that role. But I would like to see him used a couple times on little trick plays or something, not trick, trick, trick plays, but, you know, a little screen or a little end around or something like that, a reverse, just to get the ball in his hands a little bit more because he does have great, great speed. Taylor says that the season is teetering on the edge of darkness.

Wow. That's deep. That's, that's very metal. That's a mega death song. The season is teetering on the edge of darkness by Megadeth. Dave Mustaine says a loss to the Browns would be the end of playoff possibilities. A must win in week five. That second part, I agree.

That first part, I'm stealing for my metal album. But I totally agree. I totally agree is if you win this game and you go to three and two, then everything is still on the table except for a 13 win season. Like that's off. That's not going to happen. if you're three and two coming out of this run and then you got the teams coming up winning 13 is probably off the table winning 11 is possible if we did if we were doing a pie chart for example

of possibilities if they win then i would say winning 12 or more is probably about a 5% chance winning between 9 and 11 games is maybe a 35% chance or maybe maybe even higher than maybe even 45% chance. Let's go, let's go 35 and then winning between seven and maybe six and eight games becomes, let's see if I did 45, 50, then you've probably got like another 40% and then a 10% chance that you're winning less than five. That would be completely shocking. But if you're three and two, that means that the most reasonable possibilities still exist between winning seven and 11 games, which means being in the hunt at the end and having a chance to still make the playoffs and then whatever happens happens if you lose this one i've i mean a five win season still

seems almost impossible but six seven that then the pie chart sky rockets in the area of six to eight wins sky rockets that possibility i would put it at like 75% if they lose this one that they win between six and eight games the entire year and that's not what you signed up for so it does feel like that It does feel like teetering. I, you know, I need John Fassenda to read that sound. Or Mani, the season was teetering on the edge of darkness, and only one man could save them. Joe Huber is the left guard.

That's good. That's good, Taylor. That's good stuff. We're having a good chat tonight, guys. I feel like you've been very reasonable. I think we all needed a little bit of a deep breath after last week to have this conversation. You know, I wasn't live last night because I got hit by a car, not my body, but my car, got hit by another car. I was in a roundabout that was going to Target.

And what people don't understand about roundabouts is that pedestrians cross these roundabouts and you have to stop because you can't kill them. So I stopped for a pedestrian and the person behind me did not anticipate that at all. And at least the thing about roundabouts is that you get hit at a very slow pace, but it still tore up the back of the old Honda Civic. So we're going to have to see how that works. But it was dealing with that last night, wasn't able to go live. But we're having a good chat tonight. I'm glad for that.

But I'm fine. It was like if you've ever gone to the carnival and you play bumper cards, it was just a little bit of like, oh, I just got it by somebody. so it you know those things happen that's why they have roundabouts because if people just ran four-way stops then you get hit faster I guess uh KFT randomly says Greg Pruitt in the tearaway jersey yeah I mean look the Browns history I can't wait many tomorrow night is going to name his favorite Browns of all time that should be a great list it really should uh Taylor says I'm surprised KOC hasn't just said to take the pressure off the quarterback

we're going to a run heavy each game and every game Yeah, no, you can't do, that's the problem, is that it's hard to do that when you get behind. It's hard to just go six linemen and Josh Oliver out there and play like Army if you're down. And even down 14 to 6 coming out in the second half still feels like a lot of pressure there. And when Pittsburgh was having long drives and holding on to the ball, it just sort of shows you how different last year was when they got ahead early. and how important that is to how the entire game works out is trying to get ahead early. KFT says Felton has to get stronger to be a factor. Yeah, I agree with that.

I think technique is going to be a thing too and just, you know, opportunity. Look, if he was playing wide receiver right now, if they didn't have Jordan Addison, if they didn't have Jalen Naylor, I think he'd be catching balls. From what I saw in camp, I did not see a player. And look, I've seen some over the years. I did not see a player who was lost or somebody who had no potential. I just saw a guy who needs development. The getting off the line of scrimmage is something you could see he can do on those

punt gunning things. I would say that in and out of the brakes, route details, yardages, being at the right spot, he's got good hands, but it's not flawless. I think that that can improve. But we just give him time. I give him time to be ready for next year. I'd just like to see him get the ball a little bit or Miles Price. We talk so much about how Miles Price is great with the ball in his hands, but I, I,

I don't think they've tried to get it to him at all. I would like to see them try to use Miles Price at least a little, at least on two plays in a game or Ty Felton on two plays in a game just to try something. Even the play that they ran to Jefferson that was the little screen, I mean, you could do that to somebody who's really good with the ball in their hands and, you know, that's okay. I like it for Jefferson as well. Chris says all efforts should be to get McCarthy to play. They have to know if he's the guy or not.

I agree. I agree. If last week had gone way differently, then I would have been on the side of you're trying to win. And if you're four in one, then you're a winning team. And if they had been four and one, they would be ahead of the Packers right now and feel like you're right in this race and go race with Carson Wentz and see where it takes you because you're supposed to win. But that took it out of it for me. That took that scenario out of it for me, where you could see that the weaknesses are just too weak with Carson Wentz. And I give Wentz a ton of credit as a backup quarterback who could come in and win. And what he did against Cincinnati played well.

And he gave them a chance last week. And that's as good as you can hope for. Like you go into this game against Cleveland feeling like, yeah, Carson Wentz can win you a game. It's a great feeling with a backup. I never felt that way with Mullins. I definitely wouldn't have felt that way if it was Sam Howell. But that's just where he is in his career.

That's where he's been. If he was a starter, he would have been a starter. somewhere else. So if we sort of know what this is going to be with him, which is probably one week up, next week down, 500 type record, then it's just far better not only to find out what they have in McCarthy, but McCarthy's potential is just so much higher. His playmaking, is scrambling, is running.

It's just so much higher. Randomly, Taylor says Sam Bradford was bad. I don't agree with that. I think Sam Bradford was good. But Bradford was evidence. of how much supporting cast can impact the player. 2017, I have no doubt Sam Bradford's taking them very, very deep in the playoffs and probably wouldn't have needed a miracle to do it.

And in 16, he was really good in a lot of games, but once they couldn't block for him, it was over. And once they couldn't run, it was over. You have to be able to 99% of quarterback, you have to be able to support him. And even Josh Allen has a really good offensive line. like that never gets never gets mentioned uh rj says uh they hardly use slants i don't know why you know the um this thing true media that i just got my hands on i'm just figuring out how to use it with all the data it really demonstrates what you're saying is that they this is a vertical

passing offense and that all connects to the sacks and things like that it's a vertical passing offense when you look at the routes you got hockinson will go underneath uh in the middle of the field sometimes, but you don't see many slants. I don't think that that's something that Kevin O'Connell really loves for his quarterbacks, but it's a lot of downfield. It's a lot of double moves, clearing out space and then, you know, putting on the brakes, deep in-routes you'll see all the time. But not too many of what D.K. Metcalf did last week, where you're just lining up and then,

boom, hit the slant. There's the ball in someone's hands. You're not seeing that much from him really ever. and it just, I think it just strains the quarterback where it's very easy and direct for you when it's working, if you're a quarterback, which is why they call it quarterback friendly, because I think when it's working, those reads are there and those receivers are there. And all you got to do is just put it out there. And that guy has got, you saw it from Jefferson, what, four times in that game where

you just, you just drop back and he's just there over the middle of the field on a post and just pitch and catch. That happens a lot with this offense. But it also happens a lot that if the defense has the right coverage or fools you a little bit, there's not a lot of easy button stuff. And that's where I think they have to be much better is, okay, you know, mix that, at least mix that in, at least feel like you've got that button there to push. And there's times where they've done that.

I mean, there was when Hawkinson first got to Minnesota, I thought Kirk used him amazingly when he first got here over the middle of the field. we haven't seen anybody really do that since and thinking of a game last year, I guess it would have been Sam Darnold against Chicago, where Darnold was inaccurate downfield, pretty sure he had a hand injury that they just never said anything about because suddenly a piece of tape showed up on his thumb and he wasn't throwing very accurately downfield. And he actually kind of made an adjustment in that game and completed a bunch of underneath passes to keep the train on the tracks.

So it's not that they can never do it. It's just that they, it's not their preference to run a bunch of slants and a bunch of underroutes. They do use the mesh concept from time to time, but you just don't see it all the time from them. I don't know. You know, I think that's just the, the offensive design. It's who they are.

The Hangs says any chance Max starts for the Vikings. I wouldn't count it out that Max Brosmer could get into some games. I think Brosmer is another guy that I'd really like to see develop. more before he plays. I like Max Brosmer a ton. I think that, you know, when we were talking about Shadur Sanders, QB3, give me Max Brosmer over Shadur Sanders 1,000 times out of 1,000, just handles himself incredibly, incredibly well.

He is the most grown-up rookie. I can remember where the guy comes in. And, you know, I'll give this to Donovan, too. Donovan's been really good about this. But he just comes in, and he's a pro right away. just acted like he had been a pro for a really long time and i was just so impressed with his demeanor his work ethic how he gets it there's only a few times that he's talked to media because the third string quarterback usually is not doing things in front of the media a lot um but the way he handled

all of that like all about the team kind of thing i've just been so impressed with him and i think he's going to play in the NFL i think that it might be a little soon for him to play right now uh if but if he gets in, I'm not, I won't be thinking if he gets in. Oh, no, he's in trouble. But you'd like to see him have this whole year and then come in next year's QB2. And you feel really good about Max Brosmer's QB2. I think he's got to, Max Brosmer will be in this league for 10 years, I think. He's going to be in this league for a really long time. Aaron says they won't have to throw. They're running back. Might have 250 yards rushing. That's what they're going to want. I don't know if they can run block either. Let me look.

Let me see what they're run blocking his. been for the Browns. They're the sixth worst graded run blocking. They can't, they can't block anything. If this team can run against the Vikings, it is a massive, massive problem. They should be very, very concerned. Susan says Pennix already had a relatively good day against Flores, a lot due to Bejohn's game, but due to some effectiveness in the short passing game. I thought that what Pennix did against the Vikings was just manage the game. Like, don't make any huge mistake. Don't throw the ball away. He didn't have a a good game, but he didn't screw up a lead that if you throw an interception or get strips

sack, you give the game away. He didn't really do a lot or have to in that game, which is what Cleveland, I'm sure is thinking, I'm sure that Cleveland is going into this game thinking if we play like Atlanta, where you just run and run and run and run and run and then have our quarterback manage the game, complete a handful of passes, that we've got a chance. And they're not wrong. This is where the Vikings have to prove that they can stop the run. And maybe you have to put Jalen Redman on the field a lot more. Maybe you have to elevate Takitai Mani or something to try to do something to stuff the run. Or you have to put, they don't really have an extra linebacker to put on the field, but something, there's got to be some answer there, but it's not easy when you're missing

Cashman and Van Ginkle. VA Viking, what's the turnaround for? Oh, Neil, the expectation for an MCL is usually, like, and this is, again, sort of like, don't quote me on this, but four or five weeks a lot of times, I mean, I don't know if he'll be back by the Philadelphia game. I wouldn't fully expect that, but it's possible. You know, Neil's going to try to push himself back out there. I think it's possible that he's back after the buy, but they've just said week to week. I think MCL is kind of a four to six week type of thing, but it's still, but, not.

Not, not, you know, for sure. I don't know. Again, like, if we're not given a timeline, that it's hard to guess on one. I'm just going in the past, like when you hear about this injury, three, four, five weeks somewhere in that ballpark. That's the best I could do there. Takitai Amani will play center is terrific. That's a great, that's a great comment. KFT, if Juergens is out, then who plays center?

I think it's going to be Blake Brandel, but I guess it could be Joe Huber. He's done it a little bit in camp, but that didn't go very well. KFT, can Tyamani help stop the run? I think he could, yeah, I don't think he just automatically solves all the problems because you really want to have Allen and Hargrave on the field. But if they're, I think that they should consider this. They could, they should consider elevating Taimani for this game. Cleveland is not going to sit there and drop back to throw 45 times to win this game

with their rookie quarterback. They are winning this game one way and one way only, which is that they control the game with, their running game and Quinn John Judkins is super talent and they play great defense and they get a couple of turnovers and that's the only way that Cleveland wins this game. So you might have to have a counter for that. You might have to have somebody in there that is a run stopping specific guy. Susan says McCarthy's first game back is the Chargers game. It'll be the third straight primetime island game for him. Yeah, you're right about that. That's a lot of pressure to start a career.

that's why this whole this whole situation with McCarthy and when we were talking earlier about like trying to read the room with KOC and he might just he might just want to be not quotable on the subject he might just not want to say anything that's going to pressure McCarthy or even pressure himself for a decision of what to do a quarterback and lock himself into something and then later have people throw it at him I don't I don't know I don't know what the strategy you can you can guarantee that there's a strategy from O'Connell of how he's talking about this, but I can't really figure out exactly what that strategy is. I think it's just keep it ambiguous. Don't lock yourself into anything.

Don't pressure him to come back too early. And don't, if you love how Wentz is playing, give yourself the option to keep playing him if you love that. I think that's what O'Connell is doing with his commentary on this. But there has been, in the first two games, a very difficult set of circumstances to start your career, which is the Monday night football, there's so much pressure on you. You don't exactly get the Spiro Ditas afternoon game that nobody watches outside of in Minnesota. You end up with the whole world watching your debut. That's tough. You get that win. But it's Monday night football so you don't get a full week to prepare. And then you have the kid and that that even muddies the waters even more for a quarterback when it comes to the preparation.

and it becomes very difficult. I mean, that's, it was a tough start for him, just from even a pure scheduling situation. It was a tough start. And if he's got to come back and then play Philly and then the Chargers, it's the Super Bowl champs. And then it's on four days rest. And, but this is, this is football.

I mean, if you want to win and you want to be a great quarterback and a great team, like you have to overcome stuff. But this schedule has been bananas. You just have, and you've got, you've got time to prepare for both games. though, by the way. With the buy week, you've got time to prepare. KFT says the Vikings 14% sack rates so far, the third worst in the last 30 years. Well, luckily, there's a lot of games to go, but it's very concerning, very concerning. And what I'm doing right now working on this piece about the sacks is it's really a little bit of

everything. It's the downfield routes we talked about. It's aggressiveness on third down. It's quarterbacks who are at fault and hold the ball. Like the rate in which McCarthy and Wentz are holding onto the football is well beyond anything that they've had a quarterback before. Now, Wence's average time to throw is faster than Darnold's was last year. But in terms of taking the sacks, like they are the two, I think they're the two worst in the NFL causing their own pressure, which to me is probably an indicator of not knowing where to throw the football. That's, that's something that they need to do.

Let's see. VA Viking, I think Brandel has a higher ceiling than what we've seen. He's going to be better. The more he plays. You know, he's like 29 years old, I think. So I don't know that Brandel is a guy that has any more of a ceiling. I just think that he is, how old is he? He's 28 and almost going on 29.

So he, to me, is a guy that's just, he is what he is, but what he is is is is fine as a backup. And now we've lost all the flags. I did go to Home Depot to get some resolution on the flags behind me falling off. I did. I promise. We're going to work on that. Ever since we had, there was some construction going on down here. There was a mold issue.

And so we had to have mold people come in and deal with that. Not too bad. It's taken care of. But they had to move the flags. And ever since they moved the flags, they keep falling off. And so I went to Home Depot. We're resolving the issue. don't worry. I know that they're, it's like halfway through the last three shows.

They just fall off, but we're working through it. We're just like the Vikings offensive line. We're just working through these things. Two dog dad says, I just want to see a good football game. Can we play 60 minutes of good football in all three phases? Two dog dad, you are asking for way too much, my friend. It's been a tough watch. You know, I agree with you there.

It's been a tough watch. And that's why the feeling is what it is from the fans. from the media. I had a friend text me the other day and say, man, they're two and two and two. Like, why is it acting like the team has fallen into a fiery volcano and been incinerated? The season is far from being over.

And I agree with that. But if you've watched every play, it's like, where, where are you finding the silver linings here? Because this kind of has looked like the 2002 three season where, yeah, they can be in games, but are they going to be good enough consistently to really be a contender? that's how it's looked, where offensively it could be just painful. And that's not what we expected to be able to see. We didn't expect pain in watching the offense this year.

And there's a lot of explanations for it, but it really is not anything, what it looked like it was going to be in camp or what it looked like on paper. And that's how it goes sometimes. I mean, I try the best I can to project during training camp, what's this going to look like how's this going to work how they're going to play everyone and then you get in three games in and everybody's hurt and you go well all all that goes out the window uh you know right so that's kind of how it happens uh sometimes uh wevey says uh oh line coach on the hot seat well coc's not on the hot seat kOC is a coach to me who you want to have

for a very very very long time uh he meets a baseline where is he per No. Do we nitpick them because that's what we do? Yes. If I didn't, if I didn't critique the head coach and his strategies and his decisions and all those things, what would I be doing for my job? Like, that's what we do here. When you lose, we break down why you lost. And, you know, that's what we do. But sometimes, and this goes for the front office as well, and especially the coach, sometimes it goes to the point of sounding like COCs like the worst coach in the league. And I, I mean, after week one, I asked Robert Mays, you know, the athletic covers the entire NFL for many years. And I asked him, where would you, an all coach draft? Where would you draft KOC? And he said, top five. And I don't think that that changes because of what's going on right now. It's hard to coach when you have a certain way of playing and a certain strategy.

And then it's blown up by what happens with your roster. I think adjusting is a big part of being a great coach. And we haven't seen that to the level that you would like to see it when things aren't going well. When things aren't going well, you'd like to see that there's a lever to pull or a button to push, and that's happened pretty rarely with this regime. That doesn't mean it's like a bad coach or is on the hot seat. It means that that's something that has to be better as they go forward here with uncertainty for how the quarterback's going to play or how healthy they're going to be. You have to grind out away. You've got to find a way.

I use the example of Pat Schumer coming in as the offensive coordinator and just sort of finding a way to get Sam Bradger. for going midway through that 2016 season to get, you know, the short passing game going and then in 2017 dealing with Case Keenham and Delvin Cookby, like you've got to find a way. And at times, they haven't when things have gone wrong over the last couple years. But as I mentioned, you usually went about 30% of your games with backup quarterbacks. I don't know how many, I don't know what the win-loss record is when you have three backup offensive linemen. I bet it's not great. So, yeah, I mean, there should be never, never any discussion

about that. This is a quarterback, or I'm sorry, a coach that you stick with a really long time. He's a Tomlin. He's a Shanahan. He's a LaFleur. All these guys have their critiques from their local podcaster for sure. Look at Matt LaFleur being ripped up and down in Green Bay for the handling at the end of that game. He deserves it, but he's a great coach. And I take Matt LaFleur immediately. The offensive line coach, Chris Cooper, I just don't know. I mean, the Vikings are grading as the 13th best pass blocking unit right now, which I think tells you a lot. lot about offensive line player on the league that it's been tough but their quarterbacks have been dinged with the most sacks and pressures of anyone in the NFL. So is that more on

the design? Is it more on the fact that you just had a super inexperienced quarterback and a guy who's a backup? Like sometimes it's the easiest way to the answer about what's happening is a straight line. It's the obvious thing. It's McCarthy is new and Carson Went to is a backup and that's why you're two and two and not four and oh and you could have been could have been four and oh but i don't know what offensive line coach can coach just in school to be great or can coach uh you know michael jurgens suddenly to be an awesome center he's a seventh round draft pick like it's it's hard to do uh i shot you 99 the lions are about to put up a hundred on the bengals those poor bengals those poor bengals man it is really really tough

really, really tough to be, I'm sure, a Bengals fan because it just, it shows you how great Joe Burrow is because that franchise has totally fallen apart. Let's see. Jared says, I've been too busy to listen much lately. That's unacceptable, Jared. I'd put everything else aside, man. You guys are freaking out over here or have you considered or conceded to the craziness. I prefer to embrace the chaos, assume the worst and hope for better. Yeah, I think that any time that the expectation is set as high as it is. And look, everybody who was at training camp, all the reporters that were there, whether

it was Star Tribune, it's Judd, it's Dane, it's the Associated Press going to do a podcast with Dave Campbell on Friday. I think we all were looking at this team being like, man, this should be a really good football team but it hasn't been the team we saw in training camp so you set the expectations way high from what we say and what you guys see and you guys know football and you see the way they put together the roster and i remember a lot of us talking about you guys in the comments of like hey they've solved a lot of like long time repeating problems and they did they identified a lot of long time repeating problems in the off season and and fix them but then they haven't gotten to see the fix

and that's that's where it is super disappointing for the fans and where I think the you're talking about the rage and the panic comes is when it's not what you expected to see when you had set a certain level in your brain and then it comes way short of that that always is a tough thing for any fan base it was I mean 2018 that just that was a nightmare for everybody's a nightmare for the fans it was tough to cover it was a night nightmare for the team because they had set the bar at a Super Bowl and they win eight games. Like, that's not any time that happens, it's hard. The opposite was last year where it was set the bar super low and then, you know, beat it.

I think obviously that's a lot easier because you don't get your hopes up. But they certainly, I think Vikings fans reasonably got their hopes up for this season. Jackie says all the offseason steam was that this is a championship caliber roster, very disappointing. This is a fan base to realize that this is a seven to nine win team. coming off a 14-3 season. Last year was the window. Well, as of right now, it does look that way

that it's more of a seven-to-nine win team. These things do change quickly when they get healthy coming out of the buy, but it doesn't guarantee that no one gets hurt this week and where that goes. I've always said this, and I remember talking about

at the trade deadline last year, I remember talking about this at the trade deadline, where I said, and Dan Campbell said it one time, like you only get so many chances. You don't get that many in a lifetime unless you have Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, Lamar Jackson. Those guys, if you got them, you get a lifetime of

chances. You get a decade, 10 shots at winning a Super Bowl. If you have Brady, you get 20 shots at winning a Super Bowl. You don't always do it, but you get that many. It's crazy if you've got that guy. If you don't, you get every once in a while, a season that comes your way where it is your season of destiny and if you don't make good on it and you don't get there, you often live to regret it because football has this way of the pendulum swinging back and forth, right? But I wouldn't write this off yet. I just, I think it was a championship caliber roster. And if I, if it was just me thinking that I might think, oh, you know, I'm too close to

it and I need to look around at other teams. But even all the, you know, I brought on from s.i.com, a good friend of mine, Matt Verderam. and he's talking about them winning the division and, you know, Robert May is talking about how strong the roster is and the national reporters who visited training camp were talking about it. And Mike Clay is ranking their positions very high. It's like, I don't think that you were gaslit on it. I don't think it was something that was a total myth and was made up. I think it just hasn't played out to that its maximum potential and hasn't been anywhere are close to that because of the injuries.

And that's just such a boring point to make. And I know I try to think of a million other ways to talk about the things that are happening and where they need to go. But sometimes it just does come down to, you have, if you don't have your offensive line and, you know, you don't have Harrison Smith for two games and you don't have Van Ginkle and you don't have cashman, you don't, like we run through. If you don't have those guys, then you're not the team that we're talking about. Now, if we rank position by position, you don't get that result.

you wouldn't say that they have an elite offensive line but they do on paper when they're fully healthy that's the frustrating thing about football sometimes and certain seasons there is still that i still think the door is open though for them to turn things around and win a lot of games the door is open for it it's you can't guarantee it but it's not impossible j who is to blame on the penalties i think that uh o'connell would be the person that i think that always would get the blame because the coach gets the blame when the team is undiscipline. I think it's probably backup center, backup quarterback, an experienced quarterback, coach that has a tendency to maybe overload a little bit when it comes to some of the

complexity of the play calls that's happened in the past. It's probably a little bit of everything. Derasaw has jumped offside a couple times or fall started a couple times. and I mean, that's just him not playing a lot. And Juergens being a backup center, not playing a lot. The guys never played before. So it's probably that. That's what I would attribute to most.

Can John Sullivan come out of retirement? I don't think so. I imagine he's pretty old. Jake Reed and Adam Thielen both started out as special teamers. A lot of guys did. Yeah, I mean, there shouldn't be any Ty Felton dialogue. I think he's doing a great job. I think he's doing a great job in his role.

Jay said he was a bad pick there were better players available okay I know I know I know we love that we love that who was drafted right after are they great then the everyone should be fired I actually don't know like has anyone who was drafted after Ty Felton he was the last pick in the third round so we're not really talking about if he was a first round pick I would be there with you guys a third round pick's going to have to develop you just have to be patient I know you guys hate that I know that the people who love the draft so much and like Like, we all do. But there's, I think a problem is you fall in love with the draft and you obsess over

these players. And then your expectation is like, why aren't they just great right away? And there's a bunch of players on this roster who have developed. Levi Drake Rodriguez, Jalen Redmond, you saw Xavier Scott, who's been in the league a couple of years behind the scenes developing. They're all over the roster. Josh Mattelis, a late round draft pick. Cam Bynum got 15 million.

You know, he's with Indianapolis. He was a fourth round pick who didn't play. first year. Mattelis got cut out of training camp. Gosh, it, Jordan Mason didn't play right away in the NFL, had to develop. Like, that's, that's how it works sometimes. Jalen Naylor had to develop. I know that he hasn't had a big season, but still, Will Fries, $17 million guard didn't start right away. Like, this happens all the time. Let's see, cause and effects that I've heard lots of KOC criticism, which is warranted, some even saying fire him. But when people are saying this, who is

is your replacement. Yeah, I think anybody who's saying fire the coach is just looking for attention. Or being just so enraged by disappointment that they're just saying whatever comes to their head. This is why a lot of times, if I'm doing a postgame show, I'm not really responding a whole lot to the comments because I understand. And I like talking to you guys, but I understand there is a surge of rage when the team loses where you want every person thrown off the edge of a cliff because the team lost and

it's very disappointing and frustrating and you wasted three hours of your morning. I get that. But anybody saying that is absolutely ludicrous. I think you want Kevin O'Connell here for a very, very long time. I think he's one of the best coaches in the NFL, but that doesn't mean he's perfect. And you know what? I have a friend who covers the Baltimore Ravens, and I was asking her about John Harbaugh and she was talking about all the critiques of John Harbaugh that they have and we think he's one of the best coaches in the league Kyle Shanahan I'm sure if you ask their fans what about Kyle Shanahan there would be criticisms and if you ask people about as I mentioned Matt LaFlor you take all these coaches there's no coach it's perfect Mike Tomlin

has had a winning record the guys in first place again they've wanted to fire him for years for not winning more with duck Hodges or Kenny Pickett or whoever other crap quarterbacks they've given him. I would never fire my Tom. Guy is a great coach. And I would just keep running that back until it works. The same thing with O'Connell, because you can say, well, yeah, maybe they need this or that or the other thing. But I think what a great coach does, he sets a baseline for you and then gives you a chance every single year. And it's not always going to work.

But, and the disappointment of the playoffs is very real and how those have been handled. But, I mean, how many did Denny Green lose to start his career? How about, you know, Tom Coughlin was somebody that lost a bunch of playoff games and was on the hot seat and everything else and then wins two Super Bowls. Like, when you got a coach, Andy Reid is a good example. I know he got Mahomes, but every year, you know, oh, man, all he can do is get to the NFC championship. Like, there's 32 teams, man. If your coach is getting you there, that means he's doing a really good job. So I think that with Kevin O'Connell, even if this is a disappointing year, that that discussion is.

just not in the air for me. CJ says Dylan Gabriel's going to pull a Cooper rush. We need a quick ranking. And I'm sorry I haven't gotten through all the comments tonight. You guys have been awesome. I may have to, I got to write this article, so I may have to wrap it up. And then I got a couple of podcasts tomorrow.

It's going to be going to be fun. Trying to have as much fun with this week as we can. And the fact that I got in the car accident. And that made it, that made a tougher. So, no, none of you made like a offensive line joke. Like your Honda is still in better shape than the Vikings line. I'm disappointed in you guys. But of the worst backup losses of like the last 10 years or since I got here in 2016,

the worst losses the Vikings have had to back up quarterbacks, Cooper Rush has to be at the top. I think the Matt Moore game is probably the worst one because they, that was all on the Vikings offense falling apart. They had a botched punt because they were afraid of Tyreek Hill back there. And that set up the, what, 55-yard field goal to win it. That, to me, was probably the worst one. But if we were power ranking, the Cooper Rush game is,

Cooper Rush has turned out to be a good quarterback, but at the time, he, like, never played any games. So I remember at the end of that post-game podcast saying, well, your team just lost Cooper Rush. Good night. and maybe he deserved a little more respect. But at the time, that was really, really rough. Who was the worst backup quarterback that they've lost to?

I mean, Matt Moore had barely played for the Chiefs. Guys are going to have to throw me a couple of those. Oh, well, no, Daniel Jones is clearly an NFL quarterback. He's clearly a starter. Or were you saying, why didn't they keep Daniel Jones? I just saw Daniel Jones pop up. I they wanted to they wanted to keep Daniel Jones losing a playoff game that's yeah that's probably the the worst one that's that take though is funny because we would say like oh man well they lost

the playoff game to Daniel Jones how could you do that and then that take made a lot of sense for the last two years and then this year it's like oh you lost the playoff game to Daniel Jones who's a pretty good NFL quarterback so there you go uh let's see Enemy cap, can Justin Jefferson throw it up to himself? He probably can. It's like that old wrestling video that pops up on Twitter sometimes, where the wrestler throws it up in the air and runs and catches it. That's Justin Jefferson.

He was open a lot. I'm sure he was very frustrated after that game. Definitely. Definitely very frustrated after that game. So, all right. Well, let's see. Sorry if I missed some comments there. Oh, yeah, okay, Jake Browning.

Yeah, no, that's a good one. That's a good one. Thank you, Sam. I appreciate that. I think Jake Browning is right. Oh, by the way, for those watching the replay, Fandual Question of the Day, make sure you throw that in the comments over, under for the game.

Went down today with Dylan Gabriel, down to 35 and a half points. How many points do the Vikings need to win this game is the fan dual question of the day? You're right that losing to Jake Browning is probably the worst, especially because he had been a Viking. And Browning actually had a good season, so maybe it wasn't that bad. Matt Moore was 35 or something, and Cooper Rush had never really played before. But Browning is probably the worst quarterback of those.

KFT says with improved mix of play calling, the Vikings have a chance to compete. They just, to me, in terms of competing, what they need is to get healthy, and to get McCarthy back in their plane. Wentz is only going to get you so far. And if McCarthy comes back, there's a ceiling to that, the tire. And he's more of an athlete, more of a playmaker. You have the running element to that. And there's just limitation.

Also, they built the whole offense for J.J. McCarthy. They didn't build it for Carson Wentz. It might be a little different. If it was built entirely on concepts that worked for him, it was built for McCarthy. So that to me is the higher level. uh the browning game was not the one that delvin fumbled the browning game was the uh t higgins where t higgins caught it and lost them and it was mckeye blackman who was just kind of looking at him so uh josh allen beat the vikings too but i definitely don't put that one in the category

as he's become one of the all-time great quarterbacks that one was just the worst the worst ever, I think was Chad Hutchinson. They lost to Chad Hutchinson against Chicago. That was probably the worst one. But that, that's going back. Almost lost to Aden O'Connell. Aden O'Connell did win some games in the NFL. 24 to 22 points that they need to score to win this game. Yeah, I think 17 to 20 is probably possible. Chase Daniel is a good pull. Yes. They lost that Chase Daniel game where Kirk freaked out and Khalil Mack wrecked the game and then digs went full digs. Yeah, that's right. That was a crazy one.

After that game, I was there with Sage Rosenfels was helping me cover that game because we were working together at 1500 ESPN and we couldn't find a good place to do the post game podcast. So we just left and we did it in that, we did the podcast in that famous park there. what is it called on Michigan Avenue in Chicago. We just found a spot in that park that's right by the ocean, the ocean, the lake. And we just did the podcast there. And it was an afternoon game, I think, that started at 4 o'clock.

So it's dark out. It's like 9 o'clock at night. And we're just sitting there with a couple of microphones like weirdos in the park. But not the weirdest thing that was happening there at night in the park. Anyway. stop bashing kirk um don't think that i've done any kirk bashing lately i guess that's where we've reached the uh we've gone off the rails but um there were you know there were yeah there were a handful of these games that were pretty uh pretty shocking losses to backups but most of the time

they they win them that usually it happens like jake browning or david blow or something like that so okay well anyway uh we know at least one person who's got to get blocked and we'll do that and then we'll uh we'll move forward so a good show though overall a good show though overall i appreciate everybody and uh tomorrow night manny hill and i will be doing our thing uh with manny picking the schedule i'm very interested to see where manny takes this after the loss and we'll have a good discussion also going to be recording. I'm not sure about when these podcasts are going to drop exactly, but recording with Emily Liker of the Star Tribune

because Andrew Kramer is over in London. So that will be fun as well. She's going to do the hardcore preview where we go position by position and look at Vikings versus Browns. That'll be a fun show. And Dave Campbell is going to do a porch podcast. There's been construction going on all down my street. And so we're hoping that that is,

over with by Friday morning. That will happen Friday night. You'll be able to listen to that show. So a lot going on here the rest of the week and looking forward to this game, I think. So great conversation again tonight, guys. And we'll catch you all very soon. Football.