Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Does the preseason matter? Who's entering a make-or-break camp?

Episode Date: July 6, 2020

Is there any evidence that preseason games actually tell us something about the regular season? Who would be hurt by a lack of preseason? Can Chad Beebe finally show what he can do and make a stacked group of receivers? What is the most likely outcome for Holton Hill?  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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to training camp, knock on wood, hopefully starting later this month. The countdown is on, my man. Well, that is exactly what I want to talk with you about because we saw over the last few days a debate going on between the NFL and the NFL Players Association about whether they should even play preseason games. And then the other day we got measures for reporters for what it's going to be like at training camp, that there's going to be 10 reporters who have a little bit more access. There's going to be other reporters who are allowed to at least watch practice, and they're going to be taking these measures like wearing a mask and so forth to make sure that media is not that close to the players. The Scrum interview, I think, is dead for quite some time in our lives that we're going to be interviewing players. I'm not that mad about that. I'm not that mad about that. The scrum interview is getting way too close when there's not a pandemic to a lot of people. You're

just jamming yourself into a very tiny space and trying to hold your arm out as long as you can until all of your fingers fall asleep just to get Kyle Rudolph saying he's faster this year at training camp or something like that. So Zoom calls have actually been better interviews with players than a lot of those scrums are. But I would actually prefer things were normal. So let's talk about how this is going to impact the Minnesota Vikings if the preseason goes off as they're saying it will, if training camp goes off as they're saying it will, if training camp goes off as they're saying it will, which at this moment I'm not confident.

I wrote a piece today at Purple Insider, Sam, where I basically said, look, if they don't play any preseason games, it's not a big deal. When you look at the key players that they have, the Kirk Cousins, Adam Thielen, Riley Reif, Brian O'Neal, a lot of these guys are established players who are going to be able to step in and play whether they have no preseason or whether they have two preseason games. It's not going to make that big of a difference. It might on the defensive side, but I still think that the practices are where everything happens now, and the preseason games have basically become just a marketing tool where all the key players

just stand on the sideline and watch. Do you agree, or do you think that there's value in having these two preseason games? I don't 100% agree, but I don't 100% disagree either. You know, this Vikings team last year would have been super well equipped to handle this pandemic because the defense was together for like the fifth or sixth year in a row. You know, the offense was getting Kirk Cousins back for his second season. Like both units, I think, had pretty decent continuity last year. You had Kevin Stefanski, you know, off of his short stint in 2018 coming back. I think that team would have been really well equipped. They would have had an actual advantage.

I think this year's group, on offense, you get 9 of 11 starters back. One of those is Josh Klein. You do lose one key receiver, obviously, in Stephon Diggs. But like you alluded to, the secondary in that defense is going to struggle to get up to speed, especially when your projected starters have the issue of inexperience with Jeff Gladney, potentially, the issue of injury with Mike Hughes. And then Holton Hill hopefully, you know, stays out of trouble, doesn't get another suspension, which could be a full season.

But you've got red flags with, I think, all of your projected starters. So you need to have that depth ready. And they're not going to be ready. Cameron Dantzler, Harrison Hand, I mean, a UDFA who I really like, Navelle Clark, I don't think any of them are going to have quite the seasoning that they need going into this season to provide that requisite depth. And I think, you know, the last 10-15 roster spots are all going to suffer as well. The Vikings have done a really good job of identifying UDFAs over the years. Eric Wilson's a key player on this team. Marcus Sherrill's was for a decade. Adam Thielen's one of the best. CJ Hamm just signed a long contract.

So it's not like the Vikings don't find UDFAs. I mean, every year it seems like they add a couple of them to this roster and they turn into something down the road. And there are a few, I think, that were positioned to make this team, and now I don't know if that's going to be the case. The veteran depth will certainly be favored. So your Dakota Dozers, for instance, or your Brett Jones might be, I mean, Dakota Dozer might be just as likely to win the guard job as Drew Samia now because Drew Samia just

hasn't had any time. And we, you know, we really haven't seen much of him at all. So I think it does affect the team a little bit. Now, you mentioned practices are more important. I do agree with that. I don't think the game tape is the be-all end-all, but also it's harder to see for the coaches what they need to work on with these guys. Like, preseason is sloppy for a reason. It's because you've got young, inexperienced players doing things they're not comfortable with,

and then that tape informs the coaches of what they need to practice. So I think there is value in that. I think two is still a decent number. Coaches will have to make decisions on whether you play your starters or your developmental talent. I think they probably lean development. I don't know if we'll see Kirk Cousins at all, but they still want to get that game tape, I think. So it'd be unfortunate to lose all four. Sure. It's not ideal to lose all four or to only play two or to not have OTAs or to not have minicamp. And the players that you're talking about, they don't have it any easier because of that. For sure, the rookies, you're Jeff Gladney if you're going to ask him to start. You're Justin Jefferson.

Ask him to play with almost no experience in actual games where he suits up and walks out on a field. It's just that it's so different when they're playing these preseason games that they're not showing anything. There was a PFF piece by Timo Riske who looked at how even the schemes worked and what offenses did in the regular season versus what they did with their starters in during the preseason and it's nowhere close which shouldn't surprise you I mean they're just not running the plays that they're going to run and even when the backups are in they're not running the plays they're going to run which always made me think this doesn't make a huge difference. Now, if you're talking about, let's say, a fourth or fifth wide receiver spot, and we see a Stacey Coley rise to the occasion in preseason and win himself that last job, yeah, sure, that is

the case, but that's why they're expanding the practice squad roster, so you can kind of not make that mistake or at least give guys an opportunity that you think potential is there. But when we're talking about the main players who are going to impact the 2020 season, Kirk Cousins at the very top of this, I just don't see a whole lot of difference between having a preseason and not having a preseason. Two games, four games, zero games when it comes to the people who are the most important in the NFL who will ultimately determine whether you win or lose. You're Harrison Smith, Daniil Hunter, Adam Thielen. All these players have had so much

experience. And remember, Stephon Diggs didn't even play last preseason. He had zero snaps, zero targets, and he had one of his best seasons, an average almost 20 yards catch, and him and Kirk Cousins were on the same page right from day one, and that's usually how it goes, because these guys are professional football players who spend 365 days a year on this, not like back in the day where they would go work at a lumber yard or something and then come back to football to get in shape in preseason. That's just not how it is anymore. And I was looking at Kirk Cousins' stats in the preseason, and last year he had a game against Arizona.

Maybe you remember this, where he went three for 13. And after the game, he said something like, if I play like that all year, it's going to be a really long year. And then he goes and has the best season of his career and this happens across the league the highest graded quarterback last year in the preseason was Matt Barkley yeah Matt Barkley is not Slaughter still around Slaughter actually was not even close to the highest graded by PFF he did have good statistics but the Kyle Slaughter story is one for the ages to tell you it does not matter how these guys play in the preseason because if it did, Kyle Slaughter would have been the backup quarterback, and instead they cut him. So I don't think that

it's that big of a difference. In fact, there might actually be an argument to say it's better if you have zero preseason games than two because with two preseason games, someone might get hurt. And I think that coaches will want to play the starters a lot more because they didn't have OTAs and they didn't have minicamp, which just puts people at unnecessary risk. That's interesting you say that because I think the coaches are going to almost have to communicate with each other and agree upon how much they're going to play their starters right because do you want to have your backup defense

in for a half against another team starters because like Chicago last year didn't play their starters at all all four games right so if you've got one team with a different mindset going in it's not really helpful for one for those starters to play against far inferior competition. And it might be dangerous for a defense, you know, that's basically never worked on tackling until now, or at least for the rookies to go out and try to play against much more experienced and stronger people. So I think you're going to need the coaches to kind of be on the same page a little bit about that. But you know, you mentioned safety. Safety is a huge one because look at all the marquee players that have gotten hurt over the years in the preseason. I think there's far less chance of

that happening now. Instead, you know, if you take two preseason games out of the mix, that opens up six possible practices that you can have the day of the game, the day before the game, the day after the game, times two, six practices in a structured, safer setting, that might actually be more useful for the development of these players in a much safer environment. So there is a positive there for sure. And you look at it practically for the Vikings, I think there's two guys that you really expected to play a significant role on this team that aren't going to get the natural preseason, offseason experience. One is Justin Jefferson, who we all project to be the second wide receiver on this team, opposite Adam Thielen. The other is, I think, Jeff Gladney. That's the one corner who I would assume that the team expected to sort of play week one. He's 23.

He's a little more pro-ready than Cam Dantzler. I think he was probably expected to come in and play right away. That's going to be more difficult for him now. But yeah, like you said, of the guys that are going to make the biggest impact, a lot of the ones that are kind of losing out on this offseason and all these practices, they weren't going to make a big impact this year. But Gladney and Jefferson, two pretty important positions. I think they are going to have a tougher time, at least right away. Yeah, and because of the missing OTAs and minicamps, every player or ex-player that I've talked to says it is kind of a big deal to be able to get there and get some of those base plays ready.

So when you step onto the field at training camp, you're good to go. But when you get into a preseason game, it's probably great for the nerves to have put the helmet on, to put the jersey on, to go out there if you're Justin Jefferson. But are they having you do things that you're actually going to do on opening Sunday in those preseason games? Probably not, whereas in those extra practices, you definitely are. You're getting much more reps, and you're doing it against the first-team defense

at a very high speed, as we see in training camp, not the tackling part of it. And I'm sure there's something to that when it comes to players taking those first hits and so forth. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, how much of an impact are we talking about? Let me just jump in with just a quick story from last year. I remember this distinctly. Jaleel Johnson and Jalen Holmes were taking all of the first-team reps

because Shamar and Linval were hurt. So they were a first-team all of, like, late July, first week of August. They go into the Saints preseason game as the starters. We asked Mike Zimmer about that pairing after the game, and he says, these guys have had a dozen practices, and they both lined up wrong when they got on the field. They knew exactly what they had to do for two weeks, and then they got on the field, and they lined up wrong.

Like sometimes translating the technique from practice field to the randomness and the jitters of an actual game does have an impact. So getting those nerves out for those young guys is important because when you have a coach in your ear every play giving you feedback, I think it's easier to do the right thing when you're on the field in that noise with that additional pressure I think it's harder to follow your technique because a lot of these guys have the wrong technique that's been drilled into them over the years they built they built bad habits they're trying to work those bad habits out so the preseason does have value in that sense too.

And that's not, you know, maybe not for everybody, but for some players, I think, trying to get the repetition, the repetition correct, I think there's value there. Before we get back to the conversation, I want to remind you to go to sodastick.com to get your original Minnesota sports-inspired goods. Baseball is back, and SodaStick just launched its latest partnership with Hormel Foods and the Tommy Watkins Foundation to pay homage to the Hormel Row of Fame. It debuted in the Metrodome in 1992 and though it's been long retired you have an opportunity to check out the latest t-shirt called the Wiener Winner. Great for lunch, great for dinner. You remember how the song goes. For every t-shirt sold, Hormel Foods will donate $10 up to $10,000 to Tommy Watkins Foundation's Backpack Program supporting Twin Cities youth. We're going to hook you up also with free shipping

for your Wiener Winner shirt. Use promo code PURPLEINSIDER for free shipping. That's SodaStick.com, S-O-T-A-S-T-I-C-K.com, original Minnesota sports-inspired goods. Code PURPLEINSIDER for free shipping. I would also say, though, look who we're talking about as an example there, Jaleel Johnson and Jalen Holmes, which is actually the next place that I wanted to go with you in this conversation about the great season of What Matters, is players who are on the cusp, players who have make or break training camps. And both of those guys are

on my list, Jaleel Johnson and Jalen Holmes. Both are fourth round draft picks and both were thought to be developmental type guys who you could become either situational rushers or they could become, in Jaleel Johnson's case, a versatile kind of player. Maybe there was hope that he would be someone like a Shamar Stephan that could be a starter or could be a backup. But when Jaleel Johnson has gotten his opportunities and he's played about 700 snaps over the last two years, just hasn't had a whole heck of a lot of success. And I was looking at the PFF grades on Johnson's last season. Guys who played over 200 snaps, he was in the 115 range out of 120 when it came to stopping the run.

And he's in over his head a little bit at a nose tackle position when he was filling in for Linval Joseph. But that's just not very successful at all. You're talking about a well below average nose tackle, and when he has had his chances at three technique, he hasn't stuck there as someone who could get to the quarterback. And here comes Armond Watts, and Armond Watts in Week 17 is a beast, probably the best player on the entire field in Week 17 for the Minnesota Vikings.

I think he's just going to take Julio Johnson's spot here, and there's a good chance that this is it for Johnson. Yeah, I mean, Armand Watts got key snaps in that Seattle game. He had the batted ball that led to the Harris pick six. He had some big run stops in the Dallas game. It wasn't even just the meaningless week 17. He was making impact plays out of like 12 snaps. He was getting minimal work and still making an impact. So I agree with you. Johnson is in that fourth year where, you know, if guys aren't making an impact by the final year of their rookie deal, there's a good chance they're not going to last. They're just not going to survive.

So he could easily be a cut unless he shows vast improvement. Jalen Holmes, he still has a couple years left on that deal so maybe you give him one more year. He has kind of that intriguing lengthy frame, former edge rusher at Ohio State so maybe he could translate a little better at 3Tech as more of a pass rush guy. Remember, you know, your pass rushing interior specialist last year, one of them's gone in Weatherly, and one of them is probably going to be a permanent end in Odenabo. So you need to find those interior rushers for passing downs this year. Maybe Holmes fits that mold.

But I also think you'd want to leave a roster spot for sure for James Lynch, who I think is going to be an impact player for a while. You've got, you know, this nose tackle, UDFA David Moa. I don't know what his future holds, but I think he had an intriguing college resume. You just have this logjam, man, at defensive tackle. I thought Shamar Steffen was going to be a veteran cut. And now with this truncated offseason, Zimmer seems to love him. He likes his fundamental soundness, I guess, even though he doesn't make an impact.

He's about on par with Jaleel in PFF ranking when it comes to stopping the run and getting to the passer. You need more out of that position. So I would rather give chances to guys that still have upside than someone like Jaleel or even Jalen, who through two and three years years respectively, haven't shown a lot at all. The Shamar-Stefan thing is always the biggest gap between what the PFF numbers say and even his traditional stats versus how much the coaching staff loves Shamar-Stefan. And the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. I mean, if you have a guy who is playing 400 snaps against the pass and ends up with six pressures, that's just unacceptable. You can't have that at that position. But in terms of what

he gave them in 2017, playing about 25-30% of the snaps and having Tom Johnson take the rest, so he's in on a lot of first downs, especially in run situations. You kick off, and the other team's got first and 10. Okay, Shamar Steffen is going to make sure, along with Linval Joseph, that they don't get 10 yards on a handoff up the middle. Okay, I get that, that he's gap sound and all those things that you're supposed to be with his technique, but not an impact player at all. And I look at Armin Watts, and I think,

this guy actually could be with his talent. And I know he's a sixth round pick, so there's still some skepticism there, but there's just more, more gifts there. His explosiveness off the line of scrimmage in week 17 against the starting offense in Chicago was really impressive on, on many plays. And I don't think he's a nose tackle. I think he's more of a three technique, but the fact that he can also play nose puts Jaleel Johnson kind of on the outs. Jalen Holmes, we just haven't seen anything from. And I wonder if with Jalen Holmes, did you just make a mistake with the draft pick? Or is it when we hear that someone's going to change positions,

and we're hearing this with James Lynch too, when someone's going to change positions from college to the NFL, if we should always just be skeptical, because I like a lot about what I see from James Lynch and what I hear about James Lynch, but it's like, that just is super hard to do from going as a defensive end, like Jalen Holmes was in college to changing positions and having to do something totally different in the NFL. Well, how about Hercules Vata'afa too, right? I mean, he's been all over the place, linebacker, DN, D-tackle.

Like he's another one who just can't really find a home because of his unnatural build for the position he wants to play. And the team thought they had something last year in him. They gave him a chance and then they kind of dial it back. So the Vikings have a lot of those instances on the interior, on the D-line with Mata Atha, with Holmes, now with Lynch, and they seem to struggle deciding which position they want guys to focus on. And maybe they're just shooting for versatility, but with Watts, you kind of don't

know where he really stands. Is he a nose? Is he a three-tack? The same with Julio Johnson. Every other month, it seemed like they were trying him out somewhere else. The only one who has a definite role is Michael Pierce. He's the nose. Linval Joseph was the nose. They've got that big nose tackle thing figured out. And I think Pierce's impact will actually be a pretty big factor on this team because Linval was bordering on liability sometimes last year, especially when he was playing hurt. You know, the, especially when he was playing hurt. You know, the year before he was playing hurt too. And I think when Linval was out and Watts was in, I dare say they were almost better off last year.

So getting that defensive tackle position right is going to be a huge key this preseason. And it's like the guard position. I think they should have had just open competition for those spots. And now they don't really have a great amount of reps to really get a look at all those combinations. So that's why Shamar is probably going to make the team, is just because they can rely on him to do what he does, even though it's not flashy or not sexy whatsoever. Your point about Linval Joseph is exactly kind of the story of the 2019 Vikings defense that you saw players who had been anywhere from good to great in the past just get to a point in their

career where they weren't anymore and that that was the same for Xavier Rhodes and Joseph you know hopefully it works out for him with the Chargers that he could get healthy and that he could play a full season he could go back to being the old guy that he is, because he is one of the most popular players in any locker room that I've ever covered. I mean, across the board, everybody loved Lindahl Joseph, but last year, it was just not the same guy. So even though you have question marks of how this is going to work out with a new player coming in, Michael Pierce, there is a good chance for them to upgrade their interior rush defense last year, which was questionable a lot of the time.

And Pierce isn't going to bring anything in terms of pass rushing, but rotating in there does give them a shot. Losing Steven Weatherly was a problem for them in terms of who could create pressure on third downs. That's going to be something that's open for training camp. Another guy on my list of sort of make-or- break players for this year's camp is Holton Hill. And you mentioned, can he stay out of any type of trouble? And as far as we know for this offseason, he has. And I talked to his trainer the other day on the show who talked about how Holton Hill

knows that he has a huge opportunity here. And this one has the widest of variance for what we could end up with with Holton Hill by the end of training camp. If you told me Holton Hill played great in camp, he was on Zimmer's good side and worked with him every single day and he won the starting position, he's starting day one across from Mike Hughes or Jeff Gladney, I'd say, oh, okay, that makes sense. If you told me Holton Hill was cut and we never hear

from him again in the NFL, I'd say, okay, yeah, that sounds like that could happen. Comes into the league 2018, plays really well in his opportunities, but last year spent the whole season either suspended or in Zimmer's doghouse when there were plenty of opportunities to sit Xavier Rhodes and play Holton Hill. Can we put odds on this one for either one of those results? Yeah, I agree with you that there's a wide range of outcomes. I would lean on things going very well for Holton Hill, provided he stays out of trouble. I think Mike Zimmer, you mentioned the doghouse.

The doghouse was very real. It was cold. It was not comfortable for Holton. I think that Holton in training camp, once he got back, was playing outstandingly well, and especially when they put him with the threes because they didn't want to start him with the ones. They wanted him to pay his dues. So they put him with the threes, and he was dominating. And you wouldn't know it by asking Zimmer because Zimmer was so frustrated with him

that he wouldn't give him a compliment. Zimmer was trying to make him scared about his security on the roster. And I still felt like Holton was playing really, really well. So I have a feeling that he's going to play a lot this year, especially because of this pandemic, especially because of Dantzler and Hand and Gladney's lack of development. I think that Hill is going to succeed this year. Now, whether that translates to a big contract after the season is yet to be seen because, correct me if I'm wrong, he is an RFA after this season.

So they essentially have two more years of team control, assuming they give him the right tender after this year. But this could really set the table for big things for Holton Hill because it couldn't shape up really any better for him. I mean, he is what the – he's really as seasoned as Mike Hughes, honestly. He's got about as much game experience as Mike Hughes. There really aren't any other veterans that are going to come in and take that spot away unless they trade for a Desmond King

or unless they go out and they sign Drake or Patrick or Logan Ryan at the 11th hour. I think he's going to play a lot this year, and I tend to think it's going to go pretty well. I still do have it in the back of my mind that there will be another person here. I just don't know who it's going to be in that cornerback room. And that will tell us how they feel right now about their confidence in Holton Hill. Because if they do make a trade, although I don't think there was anything to the Desmond King rumor that just was basically out there because Jaleel Johnson tweeted a couple of emojis and Desmond King's initials.

That was it. That was our evidence that there was a rumor out there. But there's still somebody like, what, Drake Kirkpatrick has not signed anywhere yet. Logan Ryan hasn't signed anywhere yet. And there's a part of me that thinks that as we get closer to camp, the Vikings might have some moves up their sleeve. They could possibly make a last-minute trade and create some cap space and sign somebody else that's still out in the free agent market. I made a list of free agents at every position. You could build a six or seven win team out of all the free agents. If you put a decent quarterback

there, you might win 10 games with all the free agents that are still left on the market. And I wonder if the Vikings are kind of in a holding pattern a little bit with what's going on with Delvin Cook and with Anthony Harris and whether you want to do something there but if they are going to make a move a veteran corner would make a lot of sense to me and if they do that then the odds of Holton Hill being that starter go down now one more guy I want to talk to you about is Chad Beebe everyone loves Chad Beebe Mike Everyone loves Chad Beebe. Mike Zimmer loves Chad Beebe. We were talking to Zimmer earlier this offseason. He said, I just love me some Chad Beebe. Now, I really want to know this, and maybe I'm going to dive into some research on this, that if Chad Beebe's career

is over, if he gets injured again in training camp, and then that's kind of it for him, he'll have caught six passes on six targets and I wonder if there's any other receiver in NFL history that has more than five targets that's caught a hundred percent of their passes and then not had more of a career. But it really has been just injuries. The issue with Beebe that he made a good impression in 2018, came in, made an impact right away, caught a fourth down pass for a first down. And then last year, he makes a big play against the Green Bay Packers, comes out the next week, gets hurt on a fluke thing where he's blocking

against the Oakland Raiders. And here we are. But they signed Tajay Sharp. They draft two more wide receivers. It's a very packed room for Chad Beebe to make some space for himself. Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if all six of those targets were for first downs either. Five of them. Yep, I checked. Five of them. Yep. Five out of six. Good research on your part. No, I mean, I really liked Beebe into that 2018 preseason. I thought that he was going to

make the team out of 2018 preseason because he made, he and Slaughter, they just had that connection. It was unbelievable. But yeah, gets hurt end of 2018 preseason, comes back, plays well, gets hurt again, comes back 2019, plays, I mean, average to start the year. He wasn't great to start the 2019 season. Couldn't really handle punts. Didn't make a big impact in the passing game. Gets hurt. But I still think he has some sort of value to give this team. Now, think about the depth chart. They got Thielen, Jefferson, BC Johnson, probably a lock. I don't think Tajay Sharp is a lock. I think he's likely, but not a lock. KJ Osborne, I think the team wants to be a lock as sort of their punt

returner developmental slot guy, but I think there's room for B.B. on this roster for sure. If they keep six wide receivers, I think he's definitely on. If they keep five, I think it's about 50 to 60 percent, but he does have sort of a fluidity about him where he could be really good at creating separation in tight areas on third downs maybe he gets another crack at that punt return job I didn't think he was great at it last year but um he could try again if KJ Osborne struggles like we've we've seen potential punt returners flounder in the past I'm thinking of Rodney Adams specifically another fifth round fifth round wide

receiver out of a, was it a Florida school? Yeah, South Florida, right? Yeah, yeah. So no, I think B.B. can definitely make this team. He seems to have Mike Zimmer's endorsement and Gary Kubiak's too. Kubiak was super praiseworthy of B.B. last preseason. And they need some veteran presence. If you can call B.B. a veteran, they need that in this receiving core. So I'd say he's more likely to make the team than not. Before we get back to the conversation, I want to remind you that there is no shortage of action going on right now at our exclusive partners at betonline.ag.

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Use the promo code BLUEWIRE for a free welcome bonus. That's one word, BLUEWIRE. BetOnline, your online wagering experts. I agree with you on Tajay Sharp. It's got a little bit of Jordan Taylor slash Kendall Wright written all over it. Yes. The guy that they signed for no money that they can get rid of, and then he struggles to pick up on the offense. And it's not like past his rookie year, Tajay Sharp has ever been good in the NFL. He's just a guy who has played in the NFL before. So if he doesn't make the roster, it wouldn't be

shocking. The role that I would see for Chad Beebe, if he's healthy and he makes the team, and I think he is legit good at football. It's not one of those like, oh, little engine that good guy that everyone roots for. I think he is good. You see him separate from corners all the time. He does have a little bit of a drop issue. But when you have that guy who isn't incredibly quick or incredibly athletically gifted, but just knows how to run the offense and get open with the quickness of his feet and so forth, that reminds me of a Jarius Wright type of role.

And if you can carve that out for yourself and end up with 20 catches and 15 are for first downs, then that's big. And I think that they actually, it seems weird to say, but I think they actually did miss him at times last year, because for the X number of year, they did not have a number three wide receiver who could even contribute. And they really haven't had that since Jarius Wright. If you could even call on that, they played Treadwell a lot more in 2017 in that number three role. And I think that that is going to be needed to have more depth here because we don't know what Justin Jefferson can do.

All right, last guy on my list that I wanted to ask you about. This is a deep in the weeds one. And if there's Vikings fans who remember this guy's on the team, then I applaud you. Aviant Collins. Aviant Collins is still a Minnesota Viking. What? He came in in 2017 as an undrafted free agent, ran the fastest 40 at the Combine, and got in some games. And then since then, it's just been

injured, injured, injured. And last year, he gets injured in camp, and then we don't see him again. He is still on the team. And I think that there is a slight chance, I would give it like a 9% chance that Aviat Collins just rises to the challenge and wins a guard position. He's 27 years old. That's amazing. That is incredible. He's like, you know who else was like this was Tashaun Bauer, where he was just around forever, and you're like to Sean Bauer is still here.

What? Yeah. Like I think his contract must've got reset after one of the, the wave, the times he was waived and then resigned. So he got like a two year deal. So now he's, he's in his contract year,

I think. And then as a restricted free agent next year. So he could be back again. He could be back again on like a second round tender. But he does have sort of that swing quality about him where he could play probably four positions. I think that's the role they like him in most, which makes him valuable, at least on the roster.

Whether or not he plays at all is a big question because this team doesn't really tend to go too deep into their offensive line depth unless there's an injury. They just roll with the guys they choose. But open guard competition, allegedly, and if you're not going to bring Josh Klein back, I think that Collins has just as good a shot as, say, Tyler Higbee or Brady Aiello or Kyle Hinton. Like, he might actually be above all of those names who were sleepers to win that guard job. He's probably, you know, below the incumbent Pat Elfline. He's probably below the veteran Dakota Dozier, who Rick Dennison seems to like because of their, you know, experience together.

But I'd put him as, you know, one of the sort of next two in line if someone were to get hurt or really, really struggle in the preseason. Yeah, I mean, that's a good name. I still am not sure how we're supposed to say the first name, but it is a good name. I think we've settled on Avion, but it has been said Avion, Avionte. There have been many pronunciations for a player that has essentially never played in the NFL. Just the small things that make it fun. And I will miss if we have to socially distance on the sideline for training camp us debating these things of how to pronounce someone like Avion Collins's name. But

the fact that he's still around is really amazing. And it would be even a better story if at 27 years old he wins the job and turns out to be actually good at this. You never do know what's going to come out of training camp. Sam Ekstrom, follow him on Twitter, at Sam Ekstrom. Read his work at zonecoverage.com. Sam, thanks for coming on. We will do it again soon, man. Thanks, buddy.

We'll see you soon. This is Brandon Kelly, the host of Blue Wire's new podcast, Golden Goal. Thanks, everybody. Oh, Messi is coming. From Lionel Messi to Marta to Pele, our show takes a deep dive into soccer superstars. Two nil, and he's – what a World Cup for Megan Rapinoe. From Zlatan Ibrahimović's brash confidence with the play to back it up, to Megan Rapinoe's heroic outspokenness and World Cup flair,

each episode examines a personality of the world's game. We'll dig into Maradona's hand-of-God performance and subsequent downfall, the teenage trio at Dortmund that signaled the next generation of superstars, and that infamous headbutt that slung Zinedine Zidane from glory. Golden Goal, soccer stars and the moments that made them, premiering this summer on Blue Wire.