Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Does the Vikings franchise have the best receivers in NFL history? And let's talk about their path to the playoffs

Episode Date: November 23, 2021

Matthew Coller gets together with Paul Hodowanic and Manny Hill to talk about the Vikings' path to the playoffs and which teams are the biggest threats to the Vikings. Are the 49ers or Eagles for real? The Panthers and Saints are toast right? Also do the Vikings have the best group of receivers in NFL history? The 49ers have Jerry Rice and Terrell Owens but they can't compare to Moss/Carter/Jefferson/Diggs/Thielen/A. Carter and Jake Reed. Will the Vikings still sign Kirk Cousins to an extension if they miss the playoffs? And what's different in the NFL now from back in the day? Want to attend the next home game? Visit TickPick.com/Insider for a special offer from TickPick Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

TD Direct Investing offers live support, so whether you're a newbie or a seasoned pro, you can make your investing steps count. And if you're like me and think a TFSA stands for Total Fund Savings Adventure, maybe reach out to TD Direct Investing. Want to remind you before we get started, the TickPick is the exclusive ticketing partner of Purple Insider and the Blue Wire Network. TickPick should be your first choice to buy football tickets because they save fans money by never charging service fees ever. Hello and welcome to another episode of Purple Insider.

Matthew Collar here and joining me on the show for Hot Routes. It has been a while since we have done Hot Routes. Manny Hill, also professional Paul Hodowanek is joining us as well, because in part, I have great questions for you, Manny and Paul, as Hot Routes always is. And also because I want to mention that on our YouTube page, if those of you listening want to go check out some extra content that we're doing, Paul is hosting Hot Routes where he has five great questions for me and other guests twice a week on our YouTube page. So we're creating a unique content there. Paul is hosting. We're excited about it. So if you like Hot Routes and the way this operates,

then go check that out. It's twice every week and it's great. So hello to you both. Manny, you are a Hot Routes legend. Paul, you are becoming one. I'm really excited about this, guys. Welcome, welcome. Excited to be here. I love me some Hot Routes. You know that, Matthew. I do. And Paul, I'm glad that you have started to come around on the ridiculousness of Hot Routes. I mean, at first you were, you're very serious professional, Paul. And then by the last episode, you're asking people like what Thanksgiving food Mike Zimmer reminds them of or something like that. So you're coming along. Oh, yeah. We're we're hitting our stride.

Excited to be here and in the podcast from a hot routes doing it with the two OGs of hot routes. I'm a little intimidated. I, you know, I've gotten some reps, but I'm I am nowhere near this level. So I I only I am here today to just watch you guys work, hopefully throw in a few few clever jabs and get out of the way and let and let really the the two the two experienced veterans go to work. And I have worked in a question that addresses this in some way. So let me, since Jonathan Harrison created an awesome Hot Routes video intro that people can check out on the YouTube for your show, I'm going to play it now for us with Manny's intro, and then we can get into our five questions

that address a lot going on with the Vikings and more. So let me hit that. There's news in the NFL today, and it's time to break it down in the only way we know how hot rock style with our spin on football headlines with a mix of frozen tundra's neck roll and grass stained jersey man you should be so proud of that this is your legacy this is this is who you are and people have to see it on the video because that adds even a whole other element we didn't get that right there but you need to watch the youtube video to see the to see the full effect

the actual flaming routes that jonathan harrison created so let get into it. Let's get into the five questions. First, I want you guys to rank for me in terms of how concerned you are about these teams beating out the Vikings for a playoff spot, the saints, 49ers, Eagles, and Panthers. Those are the four teams with the highest chances of taking the two spots. One of the two spots away from the Vikings for six and seven, which is pretty much the best they are able to do unless complete calamity hits. So Manny, why don't you start? Give me your order of how concerned you are about those teams taking the spots away from the Vikings. Okay, well, I'll go number one for me is the 49ers, I think, just because every time Jimmy Garoppolo, even when he's not playing poorly, or even when he is playing poorly, the 49ers still find a way to win games for whatever reason. And he's actually played pretty well at times this year. And, you know, I trust Kyle Shanahan to be able to game plan on a week to week basis and find ways for them to win football games.

I got the Saints number two just because, again, Sean Payton, even though they don't really have a quarterback right now. I mean, Trevor Simeon, my God. But I think with Sean Payton having done this for a really long time, he's won a Super Bowl as a head coach, obviously. So I'll have him in that number two spot with the Saints. The Eagles, I think, have looked decent at times. I'm still not sure about Jalen Hurts and how he's going to be as a quarterback. But they've been able to go on the road and win some games when you think that they probably shouldn't. So I've got them at number three. I got the Panthers at four. I'm just not really worried about the Panthers. The Cam Newton sort of Cam back return was a really nice story,

and I like Cam Newton, and I always root for Cam Newton. But Matt Rule's an idiot. I just can't. I just have no faith in Matt Rule at all. And, I mean, this is a guy that thought Sam Darnold was an upgraded quarterback over Teddy Bridgewater, which is just ridiculous. So that's my order. I'll go Niners, Saints, Eagles, and then Panthers. But Joe Brady is going to get the next head coaching job, right?

Because he's a super genius in carolina he had joe burrow jamar chase and justin jefferson in the same team and wasn't even the offensive coordinator at lsu but he is a genius man that is the i won't continue to do this rant but it's unbelievable to me how many times during that vikings broadcast they said there's joe brady up in the box boy that guy knows offense as sam darnall has 96 yards in the fourth quarter passing. So, all right, give me your – I totally agree with you, though. Coaching with Carolina is the reason that they'll be held back. I thought Cam played actually pretty well.

Paul, give me your order. Yeah, okay. So I started out pretty similar to Manny. I have San Francisco at one. I think they're starting to round into form. I mean, if we're looking at these four teams, you would have thought so far this season, the 49ers probably played the worst out of them and they're still situated in a really, really good spot. According to Football Outsiders, I think they've had the fifth toughest schedule

thus far, and now they're going to have the third easiest the rest of the way, according to their DVOA. So that lines up nicely for them. They're rounding into form. Debo Samuel looks as good as any playmaker out there right now. The way he's playing, Ayuk is finally getting involved a little bit on that offensive side. It doesn't seem to matter what running back they throw in there. They're at least going to have decent production. They just got Jeff Wilson back for the first time, I think, all year. So they're just, they feel like they're getting healthy. They feel like they're figuring it out. And in terms of just threat to the Vikings they have a game against the Vikings and if they win that game then they're up on that tiebreaker that could be pivotal later in the year if they end up with the

same record so regardless that should be the I think the the main opponent that you're focused on number two I'm actually going to go the Eagles and it's kind of going back on what I said last week with Sam when I didn't think they had much of a shot. But after looking a little bit deeper into their schedule, they're playing some easy teams. They have Washington twice. They have the Giants twice. And I think they may even have the Jets in there too. It's just based on their schedule alone. You could see them racking up some wins to the point where are they a great team?

I'm not sure, but they just haven't had to do much in terms of who they're beating, and they just beat the Saints. And the Saints kind of seem on the other trajectory where they're going downward, or the Saints are going downward while the Eagles are going upward, and that's maybe not where we thought they were going to be. So I have the Eagles too. And then I wanted to put the Saints last, but I'm still going to put them third.

Their defense is still good, and it's carried them at times. Trevor Simeon hasn't looked awful. He hasn hasn't looked great but he's not a tire fire he at least can do a few things which i don't think i was expecting him coming into the game and and this is more out of respect for the the amount of talent that they have on that roster and what i think they can do i think the panthers are fun with cam newton it's a cool story but in terms again if i'm worried about the vikings they already have the tiebreaker over them head to head so if it came down to that they already have that advantage and for me if we're viewing this in a vikings context that's what put them forth with the saints third because the the vikings just have that edge over the panthers so that's that's how i went i was going to put philadelphia number one because their schedule is so bad and you brought

this up but i'll read you their exact schedule. Listen to this. This is hilarious. They play the giants, the jets, they've got a bi-week still. And then coming out of the bi, the flying Taylor Heineke's the jets football team again. And then the Cowboys on the last game of the year. I mean, that is all teams that are horrendous except for the Dallas Cowboys. And the Cowboys could be in a position where they're not even playing their starters in week 17, if they get things back together. And here's, but here's why I'm slightly more concerned about them. Aside from the schedule, Jimmy grapple, of course has been

better and is, you know, sort of coming along and he wins a lot of games with them. Jalen hurts is a PFF top 10 quarterback. Obviously the running is a big part of this, but him getting confidence within their often offense and starting to play really well, putting up 40 points. I mean, they may have found something. I'm not ready to declare that just yet, but the way that he's played recently, you're kind of concerned that against these horrendous teams down the stretch, Jalen Hurts gets hot and takes away a playoff spot. Now the Vikings only need one of the two. And your point is very valid about the battle that's this week will ultimately maybe determine it. But

the Vikings are coming up on a lighter part of their schedule. These two teams are coming up on insanely easy schedule. So I think similar lists and sorry, Trevor Simien, I just don't trust you. I just don't. Although Taysom Hill just signed a new tight end slash quarterback contract. Remember, he's up and coming. He's like 38. Like he'll soon figure it out as a quarterback.

All right, here's our next question, our next hot route. Who has the all-time better group of wide receivers the Minnesota Vikings or the San Francisco 49ers Paul why don't you go first yeah and maybe this conversation will date me slightly as will other conversations later I think in hot routes but for me this really came down to how much you're just weighing Jerry Rice and his excellence over it because going through at least from what I had recognized and going through some of the stats I the depth of the Vikings seems to very much outweigh what the 49ers can put out there and so it's how much do you factor that one guy over the rest because

it's it's Jerry Rice it's Terrell Owens and then it's it kind of gets a little it gets a little spotty from there um like I was like oh Anquan Bolden, but then he's only been on the team for three years. You're starting to just look at – I was trying to think of some of the really great teams and some of their wide receivers, and it just wasn't as impressive. And so for me, it's the Vikings. I'm taking the Vikings overall just because of that depth. I think Chris Carter, Randy Moss, Jake Reed, Anthony Carter, Stefan Diggs, Adam Thielen, Justin Jefferson. I just rattle off a ton of names

and I think all those would fit pretty neatly under Jerry Rice Terrell Owens before a lot of their other picks and so for me I was going quantity over quality I mean and and just for the fact that the last 10 or so years I think it's it's Vikings all the way in terms of where you're looking and obviously that's where most of my viewing experience comes from. And so that's where I went. And I mean, it's hard to go against Jerry Rice in any wide receiver conversation, but I went quantity over quality. How about you guys? Yeah, I did the same thing.

I mean, I kind of just looked at, you know, the overall depth between the two. I mean, Jerry Rice has so much value in itself because he is the GOAT. He's the greatest ever. But, you know, once you get past Jerry Rice and T.O., there's kind of a drop off a little bit. There's some other receivers that the Niners have had. You know, John Taylor was really good. You know, even back in, you go back to the 70s

and into the early 80s with Freddie Solomon. He was really good. Dwight Clark, you know, rest in peace, was actually really, really good in the early 80s with Freddie Solomon. He was really good. Dwight Clark, you know, rest in peace, was actually really, really good in the early 80s. I mean, he was more than just a catch in the 81 NMC title game. He was a really good, productive wide receiver for them. But after those five guys, it's kind of like, okay, well, who else is there? I mean, yes, Anquan Bolden played there for a couple of years. But when I think about how good Anquan Bolden played there for a couple of years.

But when I think about how good Anquan Bolden was, I think about his years in Arizona. You know, Isaac Bruce had a cup of coffee with the 49ers. But everybody always believes, you know, thinks about Isaac Bruce with the Rams. You know, that's when he was at his best. So he doesn't count. And then you look at the Vikings and it's Carter, it's Moss. It's Anthony Carter. It's Diggs and Thielen. It's Justin Jefferson. It's Jake Reed.

It's Ahmad Rashad. It's John Gilliam. I mean, those guys were all really, really good wide receivers. And I think just with the overall depth, I think the Vikings have the edge. I think so too. And that was what I was curious what you guys thought about how much you weigh Jerry Rice. He doesn't like Randy Moss doesn't quite cancel him out because he does not have the insane totals that Jerry Rice has that are pretty much uncatchable and I don't even know with the 17th game if anyone ever

approaches what Jerry Rice did the Vikings have some of these underrated guys that I just don't think San Francisco has you mentioned mentioned Anthony Carter. Anthony Carter would probably be a top three wide receiver on most teams, all time, great wide receiver lists. And he doesn't even get the third mention for the Vikings now. So you have, you know, obviously Chris Carter and Randy Moss, and then Jake Reed gets involved in that conversation too. You mentioned Gilliam, JJ Stokes just is not giving that you know making this a competition so quick follow-up though is there a team that competes all-time receiver wise with the minnesota vikings because i was going through this and i don't think now that jefferson

is what he is and i know it's only his second year, but if he continues on this trajectory, I can't find another team. The Los Angeles Rams have some good, I mean, you have Torrey Holt, Isaac Bruce, Henry Ellard, Flipper Anderson. So you've got some pretty good Los Angeles Rams. And then Cooper Cup is one of the best in the league right now, but I can't find a team historically that competes with the Vikings receiver wise. Yeah, I can't find a team historically that competes with the Vikings receiver-wise. Yeah, I can't either. You just think about all of the names and where those guys would be ranking-wise on other teams. You mentioned Anthony Carter. Where would Anthony Carter be all-time on a lot of other teams' all-time lists? I mean, he was unbelievable he was a guy that got

multiple years of 20 plus yards of catch and just i mean that that playoff run the vikings had in 87 where they went to the nfc title game i mean he was unbelievable he torched the saints and torched the niners and you know the washington found a way to kind of corral him a little bit but um i mean just just, he was, he was unbelievable and just all the depth beyond beyond him with Jake Reed and Gilliam and all those guys. It's, it's hard to argue anyone other than the Vikings. Yeah.

Pittsburgh. How about Pittsburgh, Paul? Cause you have, I mean, Plexiglas Burris, Heinz Ward, and then you got to go back. You get the John Stallworth, Lynn Swan. I think there may be in the ballpark, Burris, Hines Ward, and then you got to go back. You get the John Stallworth, Lynn Swan. I think they're maybe in the ballpark, but still, I don't know that Burris. Antonio Brown. Yeah. You know what? I think they actually do.

I think that Pittsburgh does. Is there anybody else, Paul? Not that I could name. I was going to ask you what other names, what other teams came to mind. Pittsburgh was one of them for me, but I can't say there's one that comes off the top of my head. And just thinking about that one, I think the, the high end Moss Carter just tandem, I think puts me above the edge on that one as well. So there, there was nothing else, but I'd be interested to see if, if there were anything, anyone else that you, that you thought

of. I think Pittsburgh is probably the only other team that has a competition. I mean, there's some, there's some teams that have had multiple really good stints of wide receivers, but never had like the longevity of like Mark Moss and Carter and Anthony Carter, like those players played for a long time. And then digs was even here for a long enough to put him ahead as well. So there it is.

If anyone has a suggestion there, let me know because I can't think of another team other than Pittsburgh that competes with them. All right. Next question. If the Vikings finished with a top five offense and still somehow missed the playoffs because these other teams schedules are so easy, would you fellas be willing to sign Kirk Cousins to a contract extension of three years of our lives?

Manny, why don't you begin with this? Because right now the Vikings are top three and expected points added through the pass. And I believe they're seventh in total offense. They're on the rise as an offense. If they finish top five in points, which is really the prerequisite for being a Superbowl team, but somehow just had bad luck and missed the playoffs or these other teams got hot, would you sign Kirk Cousins? Oh, um. I had to really think about this. I was really on the fence with it.

And this is kind of the frustration that I've had with Kirk Cousins for these last four years. I would say probably not. I would say no, only because I just feel like no matter how good this offense is going to be with Kirk Cousins, like the peak for this team under Kirk Cousins is always just going to be somewhere between eight and ten wins every single year. It doesn't matter how good Kirk's numbers are. It doesn't matter who the coordinator is.

I don't think it matters who the head coach is going to be. I don't know if it matters how good the defense is going to be or how good the offensive line is going to be, because there's we've seen so many different, you know, he's had so many different coordinators and he's had so many different weapons to throw to and so many different offensive you know, he's had so many different coordinators and he's had so many different weapons to throw to, and so many different offensive linemen protecting him and different, you know, defenses that have been ranked pretty good versus not so great. And you just still end up with just nine or 10 wins at the most. And I just, to me, if, if, if I'm the Minnesota Vikings and this offense is top five, I still want to find a way to get to the Super Bowl.

And to me, I'm trying to build this roster in the best way to win a Super Bowl. And for me, it's like I got to move on and try and draft a young guy and try and just go go with a young quarterback on a cheap contract and try and build a build around them that way. Because I just feel like this quarterback has just, this is the best that they're going to get. They're going to be in the mix every year for the playoffs, but they're always never going to be good enough. Hey, everybody. Minnesota football is in full swing,

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this year. There are still more to go, including Los Angeles coming here. It's always interesting when Chicago comes to town. So you're going to want to go to TickPick.com and check it out and make sure it's TickPick.com slash insider, because you can save $10 on your first order for Minnesota tickets. That's TickPick.com slash insider. Yeah. Matt, this is a conversation we had a lot last year when they were going through their ups and downs and we were kind of in the midst of did they need to sign him to another extension in the offseason like should they have just rolled with it should they have not and yeah this is a tough question and this is what makes kirk such a such a polarizing topic. One of many reasons is it's just, I I've had to stop this year.

I've tried to make a concerted effort to not pay as much attention to the stats as I would for other scenarios. Like I am a big, big numbers guy. Like I'm, I use the PFF numbers often during hot routes. I'm I use the DVOA numbers a ton and it, it just doesn't always match up with what you see on the field. And that's why it can only be part of it. It has to just be part of the context. The numbers have to be part of the context. So do they have a top, if they have a top five offense, I still want to see the context behind it, what it took to get there. And if, if that was the case, that is probably the most consistent we've ever seen

Kirk cousins, because the whole thing is he's this roller coaster. He has the really hot weeks. He has the really low weeks. If they have a top five offense, presumably that means Kirk has had a really, really good stretch and an elongated stretch, one that we haven't seen in his career. And so that's all we've been asking for him. So I feel bad saying no still, but that's, that's where I'm at because we're just continually in this question. And if they still don't make the playoffs with the top five offense, I know it's not Kirk's fault. We've been through this.

It's not Kirk's fault, but it's not Kirk's play in a vacuum. It's what his contract means to the team. It's, I mean, again, going back to the numbers, he could add two picks in this last game very easily if he didn't get hit in the helmet. And if one guy didn't drop a pass, it looks much different regardless of the stat line. And so for me, it's, I, I, I can't commit to doing that. And if they miss the playoffs, despite having a top five offense, despite having this pretty

clear cut road for you, is Zimmer still there? I mean, that's a question you ask then too, because that really influences where it's at. Cause if Zimmer's gone, Spielman might be gone. And then you're looking, okay, are you extending this quarterback only for a coach to have to come in and keep him for a few years? Where are you at? And so I think if they miss the playoffs, again, that really puts jobs in jeopardy in terms of the head coach and the GM. And at that point, you can't extend him. I've been a proponent of just letting him play out his contract as untenable as it feels let him see let it let us just see what it looks like on with the new coach if that's the case let him have a trial run with it see if that's what's going to work and then go from there but we've been stuck

in this purgatory of okay he's he's here for two more years then you're gonna you're gonna extend him again and to do that again despite a missed playoff run like I know QB wins aren't a stat but at some point they're a stat and he's 500 for the rest of his career all the quarterbacks around him in his pay Russell Wilson Aaron Rodgers even Matt Ryan who's a little lower they all have winning records Kirk does not and I just can't commit to doing that I don't know and in addition to that Paul if they miss the playoffs this year, you're talking about four years with Kirk Cousins as your starting quarterback, and you made the playoffs one time. Right.

One time in four years. That is not why they signed him. That is not why they're paying him all this money. And I know the argument is going to be, well, it's not Kirk. It's the defense here. Like, it wasn't Kirk's fault that they didn't do it. But at some point, it's just a product of what his contract means, what he means to the team. And I am long been a proponent of, if you're not winning the Superbowl, just be bad. Like this middle ground, I I'm,

I'm, I understand why people would want to be good. Hope for some luck, hope for some things to change. It happens all the time and maybe you get hot, but for me, I would rather be bad for a few years, have the uncertainty of what it looks like with someone else and ride that out. That's just what I would prefer. But I understand why people like the stability of it and being in it every year. And you just need a few things to go right. But we've seen that for the past how many years and it hasn't worked out. So I if they're in that position, I'm just ready for a change. See, I don't think that the choice has to be between the possibility of being really bad or sticking with Kirk. I mean, I think that even if you look at the Patriots and what they're doing

with a rookie quarterback, if you surround a rookie quarterback with a lot of talent, even Justin Herbert was this way last year where their team was competitive and down the stretch, they won a lot of games with a rookie because he had wide receivers and he had an experienced coaching staff at the time. I'm not convinced their coaching staff is great now, but Herbert then takes that next step, wins games. Patrick Mahomes' first year as a starter, they go to the AFC championship. If you pick the right guy and you give him two elite wide receivers, an offensive line that you're trying to grow, a running back or a running game that's going to be good. I mean, then you have an opportunity to be good right away, even if you draft the rookie quarterback. The thing about it

is QB wins may not be a stat, but it's certainly a team stat. It's a franchise stat, the standings, and it's the one that matters the most. And if you have this same situation with Cousins, who has played, I would say, well, every year, I don't think there was any year where he's been a Viking, where we just went, what the hell? Like, I mean, 2018 was rough at times. It was also really good at times. This was never Christian Ponder. This was never Matt Castle. This is a quarterback who's always been up toward the top in a lot of statistical categories every year he's been a Viking. And I think what that would tell you is this formula doesn't really work.

And it would remind me of kind of the Matt Stafford, Jim Caldwell type of era where Stafford played well. I think they had the seventh best offense in the league the year that Caldwell got fired and they couldn't stop people on defense in part because you're paying a quarterback a lot who's just not good enough to be Roger's level and make up for all of your deficiencies and make up for all of your mistakes. So I think the other part of it too is Cousins is not taking less. He's taking whatever the market says. And that's probably the deciding point there for me would be, he's really been good this year. I mean, you could argue one of the best quarterbacks in the league,

but if it's going to be the absolute top dollar, even Russell Wilson's team is not good paying him the absolute top dollar. And that that's where it becomes very tricky for me. Now, next question for you guys. Let's see. We've seen some good showings by quarterbacks this year, but only a handful. It's really interesting how kind of not great quarterback play has been this year. Return of fans on the road might be a factor. Injuries definitely a factor. We've seen a couple of quarterbacks be great. Brady, Kyler Murray.

This is in part why I think Cousins is ranked as one of the highest in the league. How many teams do you guys think are looking for quarterbacks next year? And this sort of ties into Kirk because they might trade him. So I don't know who went first last time, but I'll go ahead. And I went back and looked for this past year. How many teams changed quarterbacks just for some reference on what we got last year in terms of this year. And, you know, there's a little bit confused.

If you're going to count two as what you're going to do, like there's some, there's some things you can work around, but it was right around 12 or 13 teams made a quarterback change. And so from last year to this year. So that was kind of my benchmark number. Is it going to be more? Is it going to be less? I ended up slightly less.

I was at 10. I'll go through the teams that I think will have different quarterbacks. The Vikings are not one of them, uh, just based on his contract and where it's going. I just, I, I kept him conservatively beyond the Vikings, but this was my list. And there are some surprises, some that are probably make sense, but I had the Steelers going a different direction. The Browns going a different direction without Baker Mayfield. That's an interesting discussion.

Probably Texans, Broncos, the football team, uh, the giants with Daniel Jones, I thought could maybe make a change. Packers. I had making a change lions, 49ers. I feel like my turn it over to Trey Lance next year. And the Seahawks were also one that I had so that that was where I got to 10 so I'm interested that's how the routes get hot Manny that's how they get hot is when you predict that Russell Wilson and Baker Mayfield

won't be in their spots gotta you gotta do something right we can't we can't just we gotta keep people out of their seats you gotta be aggressive we've been saying it all year hey can I just add in real quick that that previous conversation is only if they were to miss the playoffs. I think it's a different conversation if they make the playoffs and win a couple of games, even if they don't reach the Super Bowl. If they play highly competitive playoff games where their offense is great and they lose because the defense isn't good enough, I think you are signing Cousins to an extension.

So I just wanted to tack that on because the caveat was that they missed the playoffs and that might have gotten lost in our conversation. So, Manny, do you agree Baker Mayfield, Russell Wilson, might be looking for new places to play football next year? Well, I hadn't thought about Baker, but I've kind of thought about Russell Wilson just because of all of the trade rumors that were popping up in the offseason for him. And you mentioned earlier about just how they're paying him so much money and they're just awful. They just can't win any games even when he plays.

So you have to think, well, maybe they'll look to trade him and sort of just blow that whole thing up and try and start over with a new younger quarterback. Yeah, you know, Paul had a lot of the same teams that I had. You know, Pittsburgh, I mean, Ben Roethlisberger is just – I know the Steelers almost, you know, chargered the Chargers in that Sunday night game. But, I mean, Ben Roethlisberger, that last drive, you could just see he's done. It's time, Pittsburgh. It's time to move on.

Ben's done. Denver, you know, I love my guy Teddy Bridgewater, but I can definitely see them going in a different direction, especially if they have a chance to get, you know, like an Aaron Rodgers or something in the offseason or maybe trade for Russell Wilson or Deshaun Watson or something like that. Houston is definitely going to have another quarterback. Miami is an interesting one. You know, if Tua plays well the rest of the season, maybe they stick with him, but I could totally

see them going in a different direction if he kind of fizzles out, Washington will be looking for a new quarterback. I think the giants should be looking for a new quarterback. I think Detroit should be looking for a new quarterback. I don't think anybody thought Jared Goff would be there long-term. I did think Tim Boyle could be, but man, just, uh, didn't happen last week. I don't know. Um, you know, Carolina carolina would be interesting i don't i don't you know i love cam and it's a really cool story but he's probably not going to be back there next year i don't know um san francisco i think we'll turn the turn the keys over to trey lance next year another team i thought about was las vegas uh just because they're going to have a new coach and you know maybe that coach walks in and says I don't I don't know if Derek Carr is good enough

and Derek Carr is kind of at that age now and at that stage in his career where he might need to go he might need to go elsewhere depending on the direction that the Raiders decide to go in with their with their next head coach so. So that's what I have. I think that's a sneaky one too, just because I think another team could talk themselves into Derek Carr. So he feels like one that another team could go out and trade for, a Broncos where they have everything around ready to go. Some of these teams that were prepping for Aaron Rodgers and didn't get him, maybe that

could be a consolation prize if you don't get Rodgers, you don't get, um, Russell Wilson. If both of them are moving or something like that, like Derek Carr seems like one of those guys, if you feel like you have a good team, you could plug him and play him and feel like you have a shot. So that one's sneaky because he's, he's solid. And that could be enough for another team to go out and try to get him. If you're the Pittsburgh Steelers, they have a couple of pretty good receivers and a good defense. Defense is hard to keep together, but they always seem to, I mean, they've got to be looking at next off season. Like the world is ours. Someone's going to play quarterback for us. Maybe it is Aaron Rogers. Maybe he wants to go to another legendary franchise, or maybe it is Russell Wilson.

If they want to trade him to the AFC. I agree that Pete Carroll needs to step down for health reasons. Yeah, that's it. He's washed. He's done. And Wilson's probably had enough of playing for this team that doesn't really fully trust him and never has. There was like a half a season where they let him run the offense, and then they seem to get concerned about that and then kind of pull it back. So they've never really given, given him the full reins. Jimmy Garoppolo can win a lot of

football games for a team. And it's almost a guarantee that he won't be the quarterback there. I don't even know what the hell happens with Deshaun Watson. The guy's going to play in the NFL again. You guarantee that if, if Mike Vick played in the league again, Deshaun Watson will play in the league again, but where he plays, how many draft picks somebody has to give up? I mean, there is so much fascination here. And that's part of it of the the cousins conversation is as great as he's played. There's just this little pang of intrigue of like, look at all these quarterbacks are kind of moving around.

We always talk about the rookie quarterback and rookie quarterback contract, which you're like, but this guy might get traded. And then there was the rumors about Garoppolo. Yeah. Obviously you wouldn't really want that, but at least enough to think that they were sniffing around these ideas. It makes it really fascinating. And I've been amazed guys at just how quarterback play in the league has imploded this year. It just has not been good in a lot of cities. Yeah. And I think another important factor was last year when there were 13, there were what five quarterbacks drafted in the first round. There were a lot of prospects that teams could talk themselves into. I mean, we'll see

when it comes time for the draft, if people talk themselves into a lot of quarterbacks again, but there aren't as many clear cut guys where you feel like you're ready to ditch a mediocre starter for someone, but there still are teams that we didn't mention that could make this list go higher i mean the eagles depending on how their season ends jalen hurts has always kind of been up in the air for me it feels like he's probably earned a little bit longer of an extended tryout we'll see uh matt ryan with the falcons if they just continue to go down and down and down that's a name we didn't mention at all so there is another team um and yeah i i still think the baker one's really fascinating that that there's just there's a lot

of possibilities there's going to be teams we didn't mention that move on and there's going to be teams we feel like are obvious and the giants are going to stick with daniel jones or the football team's gonna stay with heineke it's just it's it it's just the product of how this league works. I don't know which teams are going to be those teams, but they're going to be out there. Is Jameis coming back at the same level? There's just so many teams that could switch around, and I think 10's around a safe number where that lands. Sam Ekstrom here, wondering if you're stuck on your company's injury report.

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This is an attorney advertisement from Kemet, Sanford, and Kramer, yourminnesotaworkcomployer.com. Yeah, I agree. Taylor Heineke earning a full-time job in Washington would be really something I never saw coming. I did get emails last year for that playoff game of people who said, did the Vikings make a mistake letting Taylor Heineke go? And it's like, no, I think Case Keenum went 13-3 that year. So I think that wentenum went 13 and three that year. So I think

that went okay for them. Okay. So now here's our last hot routes question. Now this is, this is really important here because Manny and I are products of the millennial generation. So we grew up watching nineties football. Paul, you are not too separated from being interned, Paul, in your 20s, obviously. So there's a generation gap here between Manny and I and you. Here's what I want to know, Manny. What's the one thing about the NFL from 20 or 30 years ago when we grew up watching it that is hard to explain to a youth like Paul Hod hodowanek well and and carl i'm actually wondering if you're going to have this same thing too but paul so how old are you paul first off 22 oh my goodness okay same age as justin jefferson okay oh god that makes me seem mighty.

A lot of similar comparisons. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot of people comparing me and Justin Jefferson. Pod's not the first one, yeah. All right. Let's see. How do I break this down for you? Well, Paul, there was a time back in the 90s when all of, if not most of the divisions in the NFL were just a complete cluster bleep, just in terms of geographically where the teams were in those divisions,

related to where they actually were in the United States. To put it into perspective, the NFC East had the Cowboys, the Giants, Washington football team. The Cowboys don't even make sense in the East anyways, but that's another, you know. Yeah, and that's true. But the Cardinals were also in that division. Yep.

And yeah, the Cardinals had to play the giants, Washington and Philadelphia twice a year. And somehow, I mean, this, that's not even the craziest one, right?

Like Tampa Bay is in the central. And then the Vikings used to have these epic battles with the terrible Tampa Bay teams. And Barry Sanders would have half his yards if he couldn't have played Tampa Bay all those times. And there's even more, like Atlanta was in the NFC West. Yes, there was a point in the late 90s, Paul, where every team in the NFC West, except the 49ers,

was not in the Western time zone. And Seattle was an AFC team. It made no sense at all. Yeah, Seattle was an AFC team. But yeah, there was a time where there was five teams in the NFC West in the late 90s. And the only team that was actually in the Western time zone was the 49ers, because you had the Falcons, the Saints, the Panthers. And by this time, the Rams had moved to St. Louis. So they were in the central time zone. So yeah. And that's just the NFC. Oh yeah. It was a complete mess. That was not what I was going to say.

What I was going to say, Manny, because we're recording this on Monday night, Monday night football used to be the thing. I mean, it was gigantic. Like Sunday night football is big now and everybody watches it, but not even close to what Monday night used to be. It used to be Frank and Al and Dan and they had these epic intros

with the two helmets smashing into each other and the entire nation was watching every single game. And when those guys stopped broadcasting together and they tried Boomer Esiason and Dennis Miller, it just fell off hard. They tried putting Al Michaels with John Madden for a little while. Madden was washed at the time and it just lost his pop. But when we were growing up, I mean, it was the biggest program on TV. It was the thing everybody waited for and anticipated. And it was the best broadcast, I think, in football history.

I mean, some are on Madden are tremendous. But that Frank and Ale and Dan hyping up every single matchup, the song, everything else. Now it's like, oh, Monday night, what are the Jaguars playing the Titans or something? Or is that thursday you know like just i don't even know who's like the giants and bucks right now as we're recording it's like who cares i mean it's mostly who cares matchups uh but back in the day it was huge and and nobody watched sunday night football sunday night football is where they put all the random teams and they would be on like tnt or espn or something and no one was watching and just completely completely different that has shifted big time paul yeah tnt broadcasting games is even weird for me to hear as a long quest baby yep yep for sure i'll give you another

one manny for some reason and this still sort of happens every once in a while kickers used to wear the single bar i have no idea why it doesn't make any sense i mean what you couldn't see with a regular face mask the ball that you're kicking made no sense whatsoever the single bar of course everyone wants me to mention the neck roll the full back position i'll give you one more manny you comment on this there was probably like four quarterbacks that you gave a crap about in the early nineties. And everyone else was like, I don't know, Paul Justin is playing for the Colts or something or like quarterbacking the Steelers. Somebody, it was like Aikman young. And then like Jim Kelly, Dan Marino, that was it. Nobody at far, nobody cared about anybody else. It was running backs, man.

The running backs were everything. Every team had a great running back. That was the guy everybody had the jersey of. Those were the guys that you were like, they are the big superstars. Just that peaked, I think, in the early 2000s when Paul was a young tyke, but it has not been that way in a really long time.

But the Madden era, you're like Emmitt Smith, Thurman Thomas, all these great running backs, Barry Sanders. Yeah. And now, you know. Speaking of Barry Sanders, one more sort of thing that might be hard to believe, Paul, in the 90s, the Detroit Lions were actually a decent football team they were yeah yeah they even went to the nfc championship game one year back in 91 where they lost to a really good washington team um but yeah i mean with wayne fonts and they had receivers they had herman moore and johnny morton

and and robert porche was a really good pass rushing defensive end. Brett Perriman. Brett Perriman, yeah. I mean, the Lions were actually, in a lot of ways, they weren't the Lions. Now, they weren't great, but they weren't a laughingstock. They weren't, you know, Dan Campbell's going to bite your ankles off Lions. I mean, they were actually a pretty formidable team. And they were actually fun to watch on Thanksgiving because you had barry sanders uh every year too as well so okay i'll give you one more and then i got a question

for you paul so you don't just have to listen to this the stadiums were garbage the stadiums were so bad you were just you're just playing on your living room carpet it's just like there's no there was no coils underneath the turf the the snow just piled up and if somebody died they died it was just crazy so many of them were being shared by baseball teams i mean pittsburgh cincinnati minnesota uh you know so many of these stadiums uh even Atlanta, before the Georgia Dome opened, the Falcons were playing at Fulton County Stadium down in Atlanta, sharing it with the Braves. So, yeah, the stadiums were bad.

I remember when the Chargers were in the playoffs, and they were talking about, like, and the Padres were in 98, and the Chargers were good. So I guess I've got that backwards. It was the beginning of Chargers season, and the Padgers were good. So I guess I've got that backwards. This is, it was the beginning of charger season and the Padres were in the playoffs and the big conversation was like, and then Trone means has been ripping up this field. So the outfielders are falling everywhere. And it's just, yeah, that stuff doesn't happen anymore.

And at the early parts of the NFL season, you would still see the baseball dirt on some of the stadiums. Oh yeah. You know, you know, down in Miami where the dolphins would play because the Marlins were, you know, still going on late in the baseball dirt on some of the stadiums. Oh, yeah. You know, down in Miami where the Dolphins would play because the Marlins were, you know, still going on late in the baseball season. You'd see the baseball dirt at the old pro player stadium and San Francisco at Candlestick and that sort of thing, too. Matt, you had – well, hold on.

Matt, you had to explain this to me on YouTube Hot Routes because I was going back looking for weird NFL rules and I stumbled upon that the refs would tell crowd quiet down the moment that is something that I had no knowledge of was just flabbergasted by why that would ever be a thing because now it's that's all we all you care about is a home stadium you just wanted to get as loud as possible I had no idea that they would ever even try to regulate that. Yep. Yep. That the quarterback could go to the refs and be like, Hey, get these guys to calm down. These fans are too loud. I can't hear anything. Yeah. There was a lot of that. The first time they tried instant replay, it was a complete,

complete disaster. People were challenging everything. They were reviewing everything. Games were taking 17 hours. I mean, there's so many things that were just a complete bleep show. But here's what I want you to tell me, Paul, because 10 years from now, you'll be doing whatever you're doing and you'll have an intern and you'll call him intern Todd or whatever. And you'll be like, intern Todd, let me tell you about how the league was in 2014 or whatever back before you were around. What would you, what do you think you'll be telling young intern Todd from the future about when you grew up watching football? I mean, it has to be the obvious one that, you know, we used this long metal chain to delineate

first downs. And we just decided that, oh, we're going to put the ball right here, I guess, and we're going to slip a note card in between the ball and the chain to see if they got a first down. There is no better way. There can't be. That has to be the most technically and accurately, like, best way that we can do it. That, I mean,

that has to, that's going to be the one that they're gonna be like, wait, what you like waited for these guys with chains to run down the field to get set up before you could start a play. Like, huh? Like that hat, that has, that has to be the one thing that, that intern Todd is so confused about. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. I really, I mean, that's right. I think the sky judge will be the other one where there'll be like, so they just used to guess if it was a catch instead of like the guy just telling them from upstairs because we can, he could see it on the digital monitor that has a heat map of whether the ball hit the ground. So right.

Eventually there will be more technology to this, to make it more accurate. Even in the game against the the packers it's a third down or something thielen catches a ball looks like it's kind of like 50 50 and they're just like first down like oh oh all right all right really look like it but i guess it is uh so i like that paul that is a good answer well look uh paul you do a tremendous job with the youtube hot routes it's five questions the episodes are like 20 minutes long so they're easy to watch on our youtube page purple insider just go search it you'll find the hot routes manny you're a hot routes legend and a great friend and i appreciate you and i'm glad that you could come on and have some fun with this and i'm gonna play your intro one more time because it's just so tremendous.

There's news in the NFL today, and it's time to break it down in the only way we know how. Hot Rod Style with our spin on football headlines with a mix of frozen tundra, neck roll and grass stained jersey. I'm glad we had to mention the neck rolls at some point. So, Manny, great. Yeah, if you don't come for the YouTube show for anything else other than the intro, that's fine. You can come watch the first 12 seconds and you can leave. But if you're actively avoiding not doing that, then I don't know what to tell you. Yeah, for sure. Well, thank you for joining, Manny, and I appreciate you, Paul, doing what you're doing on the hot routes, keeping the legacy

alive. So thanks a lot, guys. You got it. Awesome.