Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Don't look now, the Vikings have a QB and coach advantage in a lot of games going forward

Episode Date: November 18, 2021

The Athletic's Chad Graff joins the show to play a game comparing Mike Zimmer and Kirk Cousins vs. the QBs and head coaches on the rest of the Minnesota Vikings' schedule. What does it mean for their playoff chances? Also, would you rather have a great coach and OK quarterback or great quarterback with a mediocre coach? How about future options of Zimmer and Cousins versus a draft pick and offensive-minded coach? Also listen for our Tick Pick ticket contest and visit TickPick.com/Insider Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to another episode of Purple Insider, Matthew Collar here and joining me from the athletic is Chad Graff because I invented a game while I was going for a jog. This happens often, Chad. Just going for a little jog. It popped into my head. I've got a good game. And I thought, I know exactly who I want to play this game and it's Chad Graff. So hi, Chad. What an honor to be here for this game concocted on your most recent jog. I like this. Yeah. Okay. And that's how it's done is think of a game and who I want to play that game, and the answer is you. So here's the game.

I think I'm not working out enough because I'm not coming up with very many games. That might be the problem. But also you don't have a podcast, so that could also be the problem. So here's what I got. I want to compare the Vikings head coach and quarterback to the rest of their schedule and then other possibilities for the future and here's what made me think of this is if you had asked a hundred football people that are very football and study football would you rather have zimmer cousins orins or Herbert and Brandon Staley?

They would have said, oh, Herbert, Brandon Staley, hands down. And yet Cousins outplayed Herbert, Zimmer outcoached Staley. And now I'm not so sure that that's the right answer. And even the same goes for Stefanski Mayfield. Like a lot of people probably would have taken that. And well, you know, I mean, the Browns won that game, but Mayfield did not outplay Cousins necessarily. So anyway. Now, one little caveat, and I don't want to nitpick here, but are we selecting these based off who you'd rather have this season or the next five years? We'll get there because we're going to go through the schedule and that's for this season.

I think it'll tell us how many wins the Vikings have, because normally if you have the better quarterback and the better coach, you're going to win or you have a really good chance to win unless the other team is really stacked. And then we need to discuss options because yes, they won a game against the chargers, but I don't think that eliminates all the other conversations we've been having around this team for a while. So let's start right off with Jimmy Garoppolo and Kyle Shanahan. Would you rather have... Am I skipping forward? Is it too obvious to just...

Well, I... Okay, let's talk about it. For the record, everyone would take Aaron Rodgers and Matt LaFleur. Okay, there's really no discussion there. Like, one is one of the greatest players ever the other is one of the winningest coaches ever through his uh first whatever number of games and if you want a little discussion there i'll say i was very wrong about lafleur i remember the packers hiring him it'd be like this joke is gonna get run over he's completely

his resume you know looks like a lot of the other coaches that are young and kind of have failed or are in the middle of failing perhaps like Cincinnati and yet you know I was wrong and he's been a very good coach yeah you're right uh he I think implemented a system that was perfect for where Rodgers is in his career and we saw that last year that speaks to him as a coach I still would have gone for it on fourth down in the NFC Championship game. But, I mean, I really think that his record, Rodgers' numbers, and how he's played since Mike McCarthy left say a lot about LeFleur. And, yeah, I think that if you're talking about coach-quarterback combinations,

it's like top three in the whole league that you're taking. So that, to me, was not even a discussion. And so then we move forward because then it becomes really interesting here. Would you rather have Kyle Shanahan and Jimmy Garoppolo or cousins and Zimmer? So this is the first one. I think that kind of tests whether you value quarterback or head coach more, because at least for me i would much rather have kirk cousins over jimmy garoppolo um i'm not the biggest cousin stand in terms of i don't think he's a top five quarterback i certainly don't think he's number two right behind tom brady like pro football focus

does um but jimmy garoppolo is not very good like i know his numbers aren't atrocious at times in certain games but i think so much of that is because of who he has as a coach. This coach, mind you, also got the very best out of Kirk Cousins and thought so highly of Kirk Cousins that apparently, according to Jay Gruden last week, they were willing to give up multiple first-round picks for Kirk Cousins in a trade that never ended up happening. So I think, God, this is a tough one, but I think I'm actually

going to take Kirk Cousins and Mike Zimmer just because I really don't think that you can have all that much success with Jimmy Garoppolo. So the last two times that they played, one was in 2018 and the other was in the playoffs. In 2018, the Vikings won that game, but Garoppolo missed some easy throws and they schemed a lot of open looks that just didn't come to fruition. I thought that Shanahan outcoached Zimmer from offense versus defense and the same thing in the playoffs. And Garoppolo played good in one of those games and not the other one. I think Kirk is a decidedly better quarterback than Jimmy Garoppolo, but Shanahan offense versus Zimmer defense

offense, just in the NFL today, usually beats defense. Still, you look at Shanahan's overall record and it's hard to be really impressed, right? Outside of one year, it's hard to be impressed. So I think I would also have to go with Zimmer and Kyle Shanahan, even though the last time they played in the playoffs, San Francisco got the better. This one is not hard, either Dan Campbell and Jared Goff or Zimmer and cuz I think we let me pose it to you this way. What is more lopsided? The difference between Aaron Rodgers and Matt LaFleur, that gap from the Packers to the Vikings or the gap between Goff Campbell's two cousins Zimmer. The problem with trying to figure out like Jared Goff is that that Lions team is so bad. I mean, it reminds me of his first Rams team where it's not like a lot of quarterbacks

would have winning records with a team that's legitimately tanking. But I think cousins is pretty far ahead of Jared Goff where they are in their careers and Dan Campbell I don't know he's a fun guy I don't think he can coach I mean maybe he can like he's a fun guy and everyone seems to buy into him but over someone who's had long-term success and took a team that was in sort of tanky mode and turn them into a consistent contender the different difference, though, is more, I think, between Goff and Campbell. Like that gap, them chasing the Vikings is more than Cousins and Zimmer and the Packers. I agree. I think you can evaluate Goff at this point.

He's had good teams in the past. He's had a very good offensive coach in the past. He's just not very good. It's kind of like when we're talking about Garoppolo, there's a reason that the 49ers gave up so much to go get another quarterback. Well, there's a reason that the Rams gave up so much to go get another quarterback too. Like Goff is just not that good. He's the only quarterback who ranks below Kirk Cousins in average depth of target. So I just think that's a massive, massive gap from the vikings to the lions so picking the schedule in this manner they're one and two one uh or i'm sorry

two and one two and one steelers with roethlisberger tomlin versus zimmer and cousins so i actually like tomlin more than i think most people I know that he gets a lot of crap. He's been in the same place for a long time. It's easy to knock him. The upper echelon success hasn't really come in the last few years, but I think there's a big testament to the way that he's won. He's won with great defenses and bad offenses. He's won with great offenses and bad defenses.

I would take him over Zimmer. However, I think Big Ben is just so far down the road that it's almost uncomfortable at times watching him play. So I just think that the gap between Cousins and Roethlisberger is quite large and the gap between Tomlin and Zimmer isn't as large. So this makes me feel weird since this would make it a three and one in the next four for the Vikings, but I'm taking cousins and Zimmer over the Steelers group. I agree. Now this particular matchup will be a lot about the Steelers defense, which is very, very good, but there's no world where this version of Ben Roethlisberger is better than Kirk cousins. If it's five to seven years ago, then of course. I mean, Roethlisberger is one of the best quarterbacks ever, but that is not the case

right now. I agree with you, Tomlin, though, that I'm not sure what people want more from Mike Tomlin to have that team winning all the time. He's never been under 500 in a season. I mean, that does speak to having a great quarterback but even when they had duck hodges and mason rudolph playing that they still didn't and this version last year they had what like 13 wins with this version of roethlisberger oh my gosh i mean that i think tomlin is one of the five best coaches in the nfl hands down for what he's done even in

recent years uh all right now this is a little interesting. Justin Fields and Matt Nagy. And what makes it interesting is if you think that Justin Fields will continue to ascend and you could say Matt Nagy is not a good coach and you would be right, but he always seems to beat the Vikings. So he's a good coach against the Vikings. Okay. I would say two things here.

One, I do think that Justin Fields is going to ascend and get better too. I think Matt Nagy might be the worst coach in the NFL right now. Think of, I'm just trying to off the top of my head, go through the coaches who are worse. Maybe you could say a Dan Campbell. I kind of give him the benefit of that with a small sample size and a terrible team. But is there another coach who's worse than Matt Nagy right now? Yeah. I mean, I would go with like Joe judge,

urban Meyer guys who will clearly be fired really soon. I think that they're worse. I'm going to stick with Nagy. At least the Jags are playing for him. The giants haven't been atrocious the last three weeks. I mean, Nagy's at least been in the playoffs with Mitch Trubisky. I mean,

I think that like, I think he caught lightning in a bottle with Vic Fangio. Could be. Putting that entire roster on his back and just pulling Mitch Trubisky both to the playoffs and to a Pro Bowl, which is crazy. I every now and then will see that picture of Trubisky in a Pro Bowl uniform. Oh, my God, that's right. I forgot about that.

Amazing. So I think this one's rather easy once again. And now I'm starting to think this may not translate to the records quite like we had initially predicted, but I'm taking the Vikings duo. I mean, I think I'm bleeding purple now. This is incredible. The only scenario where you don't is if Justin Fields hits the accelerator and honestly his last game, looks like I mean he was tremendous I I won't go as far as you on Matt Nagy I think that he is much more along the lines of like the 18th or 20th best coach because I think there's 10 guys in the league who have just no

business being there and won't and won't be for very long I mean hey but at least he flew home on his own team jets, right? I mean, at least he's not having the team run gassers or something when they lose. So, you know, I'll say that Nagy has at least some answers against Zimmer as well. Somehow, and I don't really understand that, but he does have some answers against Zimmer. The one other thing I would note with him is it would be like if the Vikings had a terrible defense, like three or four years in a row, he's the offensive guy. He was Andy Reed's got like, he was hired to make this offense good. And the only time that they've been good is when Vic Fangio made their defense unbelievable. Yeah, I agree. They're, they're not good. I'm not trying to give him too much credit i'm only putting him above joe judge so uh so in the here and now zimmer cousins better so that's four and

one uh now they play los angeles at home the day after christmas that's stafford mcveigh how do you feel about that one contrary to how the rams have looked the last two weeks which we can just be blunt they have looked very bad and I think it's also worth noting when talking about the Rams they have one good win they beat the Bucks in week three which was great everybody kind of anointed them as the next favorite they did look very good in that game they haven't really beaten anybody since and anytime they have gotten tested, like against the Titans, they've played horribly.

Having said all of that, I think Stafford, I would say, like I think if you look at them, they're pretty similar numbers-wise. I would give a slight advantage to Stafford over Cousins and a slight to moderate advantage of McVay over Zimmer. So even though it's not looking great right now in Rams country, I'm going to take that Rams duel over the Vikings. I think that they're the same quarterback for different reasons, that Stafford is overly aggressive and tries to make the Mahomes plays and gets picked off, as we've seen,

whereas Cousins is playing ultra-conservative. Cousins, though, there's no statistical or even anecdotal evidence that you could look at that you'd say that Stafford is better than Cousins. Like it's only based on just this thought of what his arm is supposed to be. Right. It's not even like, oh oh and i guess anecdotal maybe is the wrong word because it's like oh he made this one throw so i guess that is the only evidence is how i should put it oh did you see this one highlight it's incredible what stafford did or this one game he was unbelievable but when you take a look at the whole picture neither one of them has playoff wins both of them statistically are very very close over huge sample sizes. And Cousins is better by an edge in a lot of areas. PFF grade.

He actually even takes less sacks than Matt Stafford does. Less interceptions. Higher completion percentage. Similar yards per attempt. Like same quarterback except for in different ways. But McVay, I think I'm going to give him the edge over Zimmer. Not by a lot, but by a little. but McVay, I think I'm going to give him the edge over Zimmer, not by a lot, but by a little,

because I think he has also the offensive weapons to work with, and every time he's had the offensive weapons to work with, they rank as like a top-five offense. So I think I'm going to give that slight edge, and the last time they played also, Los Angeles put up a lot of points against a good Zimmer defense. Yeah, and I love the Stafford cousins comparison debate. I think I was having a debate with someone one night and we were, you know, just talking about the top 10 quarterbacks and the top nine are pretty set.

You know, I don't know if we'll go through it on this show, but they're the guys that you would think they're pretty much set. 10 is pretty much that cousin Stafford territory. Maybe if Joe Burrow comes on or one of these other young guys, maybe if, you know, I don't think Mac Jones is anywhere near number 10 right now, but it's that kind of realm. And I think it's, you know, do you prefer the aggressiveness you do? Okay. Stafford, your number 10, do you want the safe play and not turning the ball over? Well, then Cousins is your number 10. account, which is at purple underscore insider and retweet the post that says there's a ticket giveaway for this weekend's game and then follow at purple underscore insider so we can DM you the

tickets if you win. That's it. Just go to the purple insider Twitter, retweet the post about the ticket giveaway, and you've got a chance to be going to the stadium on Sunday to see the game. And if you don't win, use TickPicks.com slash insider to get tickets without having to pay those nasty fees. That's T-I-C-K-P-I-C-K dot com slash insider. Good luck. Right. Yeah, that's right. And the volatility exists with both of them in terms of when they're hot, they're really good. And that's what Stafford was earlier this year. And then when they hit the skids, we've seen Stafford in the last couple of games. So then the Vikings have another game against Green Bay. So we agree that that one is Green Bay twice, Los Angeles once, as the teams that have a better quarterback-coach combination. San Francisco, Detroit, Pittsburgh, Chicago, who is also the last team, all have worse. So that is, do the math for me, three versus six, right?

So you have, of the final nine games, three times they are outmanned with coaching quarterback, six times they have an edge. What does this tell us about what the Vikings will finish as and who they will be? Well, this, this has been eyeopening for me, first of all, but I also think that this should kind of raise optimism about the playoffs. And yes, it's fair to note that the Vikings' playoff chances are largely boosted by an added playoff spot. And just the fact that everybody else in sort of this middle tier in the NFC is kind of very mediocre. Like the AFC doesn't have sort of the top end talent that i think the nfc

has but that middle group of wild card teams in the afc i think is so much better than the wild card teams in the nfc all the vikings have to do is beat out like the carolina panthers we saw the panthers the bands are not good now sam darnold going to the bench is good for them um but it's those kind of teams the atl Atlanta Falcons are right there. The San Francisco 49ers are right there. There's not great teams that the Vikings have to leapfrog. So it is all in front of them to, even if they lose this week against green Bay,

they can still make the playoffs. Yep. Oh, they most certainly can. To me, what it comes down to is when you play some of these teams who have good defenses, does your quarterback step up in those games, which we have not often seen from Cousins as a Viking?

But San Francisco, they're going to play good defense. They have a good offensive line, so they're going to run on you, things like that. There will be many other factors. But it just struck me as I was thinking about the rest of the season, they have an edge in this very, very important area for a lot of the year. And that's kind of remarkable to me, the rest of the season. So then what it almost comes down to is, can you do the thing against Chicago that you don't usually do, right? Can you beat them twice? That might end up being the difference between making the playoffs

and not so hey that that december 20th game at soldier field i think it will be huge i think this also revealed to me two other things and it's probably good to remember in my opinion mike zimmer's kind of like a fringe top 10 head coach kind of in that 8 to 12 range depending on who you're talking about what what else is in there. Cousins is in a similar spot. Maybe I'd have a nine to 13 range. So you're giving yourself two above average guys at the two most important spots. But while you were talking, I had one other kind of fictional hypothetical one that I wanted to throw at you. I have gathered in this conversation that you are not the biggest Joe judge fan. Um,

no, in, let me, uh, something happens and I, I don't know exactly how this happens, but, um, Joe judge takes over for the green Bay Packers. If Joe judge and Aaron Rogers are coming to Minnesota, who do you give the advantage to? Ooh. think Rodgers is one of the greatest football players who's ever stepped on the universe so I would still give the edge there because I think having let's even say that being one of the greatest ever is only five percent better than Kirk Cousins that five percent is so significant to your franchise they won a Super Bowl with McCarthy I don't think McCarthy's good I mean Dallas is winning with McCarthy it's not because of him it's because of dac prescott being a really damn good quarterback let me give you the flip one in this hypothetical then um let's say i'm

trying to think of who your number one head coach might be um it could be andy reed it could be you know dewar's choice it's probably the guy that you always think. I mean, it's still probably Belichick, right? He's still probably the best coach in the league. Major gaffe on the New England guys part over here. So Bill Belichick, things end well in New England. And he says, I want to go fix what Matt Patricia couldn't. And he goes to Detroit. And now the Vikings are headed to Detroit with, to face Jared Goff and

Bill Belichick, who gets the advantage. I will give it to the Vikings still, because even Bill Belichick, I think actually coaching up a team where when Cam Newton played, they went seven and eight. I thought that was a huge accomplishment. Half their team decided not to play because of COVID and Brady left. And so did everybody else. They had nobody and they still won seven out of 15 games that cam was in there. And then there was one where it was like Jared Stidham or some atrocity. So I think that Detroit with bill Belichick is probably like a six and 11 team.

And with Dan Campbell, they're an Oh 16 and one team. It would still be, I mean, the quarterback ultimately determines more than anything else on-1 team, it would still be, I mean, the quarterback ultimately determines more than anything else on the field. So I would go that route. Now I've got a few more for you, though. This is not over. So how about this? Those are the here and now. Big advantage for the Vikings. That's a good thing to have. But there's still going to be conversation that the

Vikings do not get blazing hot down the stretch about the status of both Zimmer and Cousins as we go forward. Would you rather have Zimmer and Cousins or Byron Leftwich and Kenny Pickett, the potential top quarterback, to be taken this year out of Pitt? Right. I admittedly have not watched a ton of Pitt. And from what I have heard, it's not a great quarterback class. That's not to say guys won't be taken in the top 10 because their position is miles more important than every other position. So, um, you know, it is worth noting that it feels like every year, some draft analyst comes out around this time. It's like this quarterback class is rough. And then by the time we get to April, uh,'re like are there gonna be four quarterbacks in the top 10 it's incredible this year happens every year um if we're talking for

the next five years like i think cousins and zimmer give you a better chance to go to the playoffs but left which and first round quarterback probably give you a better chance to actually win a super bowl um just because I think you have to factor in contracts in this. You can't just pick by the play and Cousins, you know, at least for now, without an extension, we're talking about a cap at north of 40 million when a first round pick would be around seven, eight, nine, 10 million. So I think you just have to factor that in. And if you're, if you're saying Super Bowl or bust, I don't care if you get me any playoff tickets, which is the perspective of fans,

but perhaps not the owners whose wallets are impacted by this, then I think the reality is left-witch and pickets or whoever your quarterback of choice probably opens that window a little bit more. I mean, if you end up through the end of four years with one playoff win from Kirk Cousins and a 500 record with him, then it hasn't worked and it probably won't. What different avenue do you take after four years sample? One year can be fluky, but not four.

I mean, you don't miss field goals every year right so I would say that a different direction after that if that's how it turns out the rest of this season that brings you someone who's much cheaper at the quarterback position is probably the right way to go I'm not 100 convinced that it has to be a new coach that Byron Lefkowitz will be better than Mike Zimmer that's what we see with I mean Deion Sanders even said it in that zoom call where he's like, Hey, I knew you'd beat a young coach. Well, Zimmer doesn't beat all young coaches, but we does it a lot though, where we see, okay. He's more. Yeah. Yep. Young coaches and quarterbacks do have trouble winning. A lot of times it's the more experienced people. Um, okay. Now how about this? How about instead of the first round pick quarterback,

we go with a quarterback who could be gone the markets next year. Let's even go with Daniel Jones, who has actually played decently for the New York Giants. They're terrible. Their coach is terrible. Their offensive coordinator is terrible. Their office of coordinator held back Dak Prescott, for goodness sake. So let's say, would you rather have the combination of Daniel Jones and Mike Zimmer, or would you rather have Kirk Cousins and Kellen Moore? Oh, okay. I think I'd rather have Kirk Cousins and Kellen Moore.

I've been very impressed by Kellen Moore. I think the fact that he was able to stay on the staff in Dallas speaks to how highly they think of him there. I've always been of the opinion that Dak Prescott is way better than people believe. And this is my chance to gloat about that since I think he's probably an MVP front runner. But while conceding that he's incredible on his own, I think Hellmore is doing things to help bring the best out of him. So if he can make Kirk Cousins go from, say, the number 11 quarterback in the league to number eight, that's a pretty big jump. So I think I would take that combo. So I guess my question would be for a quarterback who's already had mcveigh shanahan and stefanski will it be different that's a fair rebuttal that would be my i don't question no that cousins would

be drastically different but i think he could do a lot more with an offense that has these weapons than is currently being done with this group. This group should absolutely not be below average. And yet they rank below 16 in so many important stats. So my case on the other side would be this, that if you have Daniel Jones as your quarterback, now I know a lot of people probably think, oh, he's horrible. Well, he's like middle of the pack by PFF grade. And what's really horrible is their team. I think like he's not special, but he's also not as bad as maybe the numbers look. This is a team that won the division with Teddy Bridgewater and it won the division

with Case Keenum and it was on the doorstep of a Super Bowl with Case Keenum. And it took Kirk Cousins from a this is the thing oh they hold back Kirk Cousins okay I get it but he's also putting up career numbers every year in lots of categories across the board so I think they're actually getting the best version of Kirk Cousins maybe that's a hot take but they've gotten the best version of every quarterback who's ever been here best version of Teddy hasn't been as good since. Best version of Case, oh my gosh, he's not even a starter. Best version of Sam Bradford, he was an LOL before he came here. What are you guys getting Sam Bradford for?

And his numbers were good over two years. I think with an elite roster, and this is presupposing that Jones is on his rookie contract for like a year, okay, if not forever. I think for a year that might be better because then you can get a lot of expensive players. And I also think that the way that this team plays offense has decidedly helped Kirk Cousins more than it's hurt him. That's what I think based on every number from what he was before to what he is now. That's what it says. Yeah.

After having proclaimed that Kellen might get him from 11 to eight, I'd like to just backtrack here a little bit, but also push back against what you said. And if you look at his numbers, as much as we like to talk about what could change with him or the offense or how going under center and play action has changed him. He's kind of been the same guy forever. Like was he a little bit better with shanahan maybe

was he better with stefanski than de filippo probably not drastically so though he's always kind of been this guy we talk so much about changing him or where does he rank like kirk cousins is consistent in who he is um and so i don't know that changing coaches or offense or weapons even or what have you really makes that big of a difference with him. Sam Ekstrom here wondering if you're stuck on your company's injury report. In an unfortunate situation like that, it's good to have someone in your corner. That's where Kemet Sanford and Kramer Law can help you understand your rights under Minnesota's workers' compensation laws. There's enough uncertainty in our lives nowadays that the last thing you want is to feel helpless

if you wind up in a bad situation after a workplace injury. Kemet, Sanford, and Kramer will fight for you if there's been a wrongfully denied work comp claim so you can get the benefits you deserve. If your claim has been accepted, they help with rehabilitation disputes, medical disputes, help you get a second opinion, and ensure you're getting all the benefits you're entitled to on an accepted claim. Kemet, Sanford, and Kramer will provide you with dedicated and experienced disability attorneys that have secured their clients tens of millions of dollars. Our good friends Mike, Pat, and Evan will handle all that messy legalese to and from the insurance

company about your claim while you focus on what's important, your recovery. And there's no cost involved for reaching out to Kemet, Sanford, and Kramer. In fact, you don't pay a dime unless they successfully obtain your benefits. You get paid, then they get paid. It's that simple. The website is yourminnesotaworkcomployer.com, where you can find a phone number to get a free consultation. This is an attorney advertisement from Kemet Sanford and Kramer, yourminnesotaworkcomployer.com. So let me ask you this then. Let's say it's not Daniel Jones. Cause I wanted to go a little down the list of someone that people don't think is all

that good. I see a little Ryan Tannehill-ish in Daniel Jones. Well, I mean, I just think his team is so bad and the numbers aren't so bad that they're like josh rosen or something like how good would the guy have to be to swap it out for cousins for you would say oh it's decidedly better like to me it's all about the money and if you can get even similar play for the money that's how garoppolo goes to the super bowl that's how jared goff goes to a super bowl coach same coaches coaches mike zimmer how much better does the quarterback have to be to get more than they have now well if you're factoring in contracts let's say baker mayfield is on his rookie contract would you rather have baker mayfield in this offense on his rookie contract or kirk cousins say next year at 41 million on the cap hit.

Now, of course, Baker's not going to be on the rookie contract. That's your, but just this hypothetical, it's probably Baker. It's really so much comes down to that. I mean,

look where they were last year. They were right there in the doorstep, right? I mean, they're a play away or so stopping Chad Henney run of all things in the world. They're right there and and they're still a good team right now they're just in a very difficult division

i think it's probably baker because the difference between cousins and baker cousins is a better quarterback than baker but not that much better per the money but and then when you talk about the coaches it's like okay ke okay, Kellen Moore, how much better is Kellen Moore than Kevin Stefanski or Gary Kubiak was even putting Clint Kubiak aside. And how much of that is Dak Prescott being good? All of these things make for an interesting discussion, which is why I wanted to have it. And so I think one of the other things that I've learned, and I'm going to throw you one more hypothetical to see if this is true or not but i think both of us are coming to the inclusion that

conclusion that quarterback is probably more important than head coach even though they're 1a and 1b on the list of what you need to have a very good team because would you rather with all all other rosters being equal have Aaron Rodgers and Joe judge or Bill Belichick and Sam Darnold. I mean, to me that's easy because we wouldn't think that Joe judge was as much of a joke. If Aaron Rodgers was making him look smart. I mean,

I think we've seen lots of examples. I mean, Belichick and Brady, they didn't just win one by accident. They won all of them because they're both the best but if we're talking about joe judge like how different is joe judge than mike mccarthy probably not much and mccarthy was as washed as any coach i've ever seen at the end of that tenure they're running the same offense for the 10th year in a row quarterback hates him he's having massages upstairs while they're having team meetings they're still playing well how about him falling completely backward into an incredible

situation with tons of offensive weapons a very good offensive coordinator where even though he's an offensive coach he can kind of hand the reins over a quarterback who's playing at an mvp level like you know at a certain point i think you have to tip your cap to you know wins and success and all that but at the same time like this guy has fallen into so much success yeah yeah and I think he's a professional coach but I mean he's not a good one I wouldn't put him in the top 10 in the NFL and coaches but when you have these quarterbacks that's what they do also like look at the Jets so Robert Sala was was this, oh my gosh, this guy is so smart. He's going to be his gray head coach. Look at him. Mike White, Zach Wilson can't play. Now they're

going to play Joe Flacco and he's a big old dummy, right? I don't know. I mean, he probably can coach, but not Mike White and Zach Wilson, who has just been a tire fire so far. A lot of it comes down to that. I mean, you get the perfect combination, then it's great. But you know, when Matt Ryan is on his game,

Dan Quinn goes to the super bowl, super smart coach, and then he falls off. He's not anywhere near physically what he was even five years ago. And now his coach is an idiot. Like, it's just like, coach is an idiot. Like, it's just like, this is always how it works.

Right. I think Sean McVay and Shanahan have both realized that when they've said, you know, we can probably scheme up better offenses than anybody in the league, close to anybody in the league. And they both thought I need a better quarterback. Went about getting that different, that better quarterback in different ways.

But both of them came to the same realization, despite being very good offensive coach. Yep. That's what they know. And there's so many other factors that make for a great quarterback, but it, you know, most of the time it's, Hey, how, how is a John Harbaugh's status? If someone else, maybe certain team that we're talking about on the show every day, had drafted Lamar Jackson.

And then they're chasing their tail looking for Joe Flacco's next guy. And they drafted Hayden Hurst. Can you imagine? They drafted Hayden Hurst before Lamar Jackson. How much they would have been destroyed when Joe Flacco was horrendous the next year. It would have been hot seat. And I consider Harbaugh cream of the crop, maybe, you know, top three, but really what's going on there if they don't get Lamar Jackson. So I always look at it that way that you can probably replace a coach over a quarterback. What makes this fascinating

is that there are teams that have top quarterbacks and mediocre coaches. There are teams that have top coaches and mediocre quarterbacks that succeed and compete. This coach and quarterback are both good and both better than a lot, but not as good as the best, and it always seems to put them in that same spot, which makes this game kind of fun. And which is why we're talking about them fighting for a wild card spot.

Exactly. So real quick, do you think they beat the Packers? So we are taping this Wednesday afternoon. The Vikings had five players not playing. I have already made my prediction at the Athletic, which was, and I shocked myself when I thought about it, the Vikings winning by 1.2423. Now, if the Vikings in these next three days go through some crazy COVID outbreak, Brian O'Neill and a plethora of other players can't play,

perhaps I'll amend that, but tell me it wouldn't be such a Viking season for them to beat Green Bay, get back to 500, probably take over the seventh spot and be in the wildcard picture and then go to San Francisco, a team that I don't think they match up well against a team that we saw against the Rams can really run the ball against anybody. That's not the Vikings is strength right now on defense. So I think, and I could be completely wrong, but I think they're going to beat the Packers and then lose to the 49ers. I think that's very possible. I'm not willing to say it, though,

because I think that the Packers have a very good defense. It might be banged up a little bit, but it's good this year. And when they've played good defenses, I'm not sure they can be really trusted. And there's also this, I don't know, there's a sort of thing about Rodgers finding some other reason to prove people wrong, even though he absolutely created his own problems, but that's usually how he is. I have a tough time picking them for this one, but I do think that no game with the Vikings ends up being a blowout. This is probably close. I'm going to go

with something like 27, 24, but like you said, I want to see if there's a COVID outbreak first, um, because that has been an issue with this team. What is it? Eight players on the COVID list over the last two weeks. So, and I think it's weird to go into this kind of game. And at least for me, I have more questions about the Vikings offense than the defense, which is kind of a weird place to be going into a game against Aaron Rogers. And yet I want to know what happens if they double team Justin Jefferson every play, right? Cousins just never throw that way. Like they're going to, um, you know, I think in part because Jerry Alexander is still hurt, they're going to have to put some safeties over the top.

And I think they're going to take away the deep ball because they've been very good at that all year uh can the vikings to your question beat a good defense i don't know the answer yet yeah we haven't really seen it in recent years and i think this defense is legit with the packers that's what usually makes the difference but this is why they play the games as chris berman said when we were growing up so uh chad this was super fun if you don't follow chad you have to already i think if you're a vikings fan at chad graph and the athletic so good stuff this was delightful i'll be looking forward to your next jog to uh to see what game you've concocted and i look forward to it i feel like every couple of weeks we have the right sort of cadence for this where i come up with some really goofy game every couple of weeks

uh to keep it a little a little fresh here so thanks for your time man i appreciate it thank you for having me