Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Draft analysts don't know what to do with Hendon Hooker or Will Levis

Episode Date: March 26, 2023

Matthew Coller and Jonathan Harrison talk about the Hendon Hooker debate, why Mel Kiper is higher on Will Levis than other draft analysts and the Super Bowl contenders following the first wave of free agency. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

There's news in the NFL today, and it's time to break it down in the only way we know how. Hot Rod style. Earl! Johnny! With our spin on football headlines with a mix of frozen tundras. Let's be a cold weather team. Neck rolls. And grass stained jerseys. The good old-fashioned guts was probably the biggest difference in the game.

Hey, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Hot Grouts. Matthew Collar and Jonathan Harrison here with a lot to talk about pertaining to the Minnesota Vikings and the National Football League. Good to be live with you again, Jonathan. And, you know, we can't go a single day without the Vikings having some sort of quarterback rumor that comes out. And it can't just be someone that everyone agrees on. It's not like, oh, hey, Bryce Young might be interested in the Vikings

or C.J. Stroud. Then everyone would be like oh okay well those guys are pretty good that would be great uh it's always got to be something that people violently attack each other on the internet and i saw a study and i know you know what i'm talking about uh by a website that looked into the most negative fan bases on the internet yeah and they discovered that the minnesota vikings have the most negative fan base on all of twitter by a lot making up almost 40 percent of tweets are considered negative i saw which did not surprise me at all having had a twitter account i would also like to say for people who i've blocked on

twitter point to that that might be why most most people are very cool most people are very cool on twitter but i think you could tell the frustration of the fan base when you look at that study jonathan uh but once again here we are as daniel Daniel Jeremiah drops a bomb on us by putting Hendon Hooker to the Vikings at number 23 in his most recent mock. And just, it's like he just took a match and threw it on the gasoline and ignited even more debate just a day after all the Lamar Jackson stuff. So give me your thoughts on the Hendon hooker mock draft. I want to call it a controversy. Let's call it a controversy. Sure. Why not? I don't know. Anything's a controversy at this point with,

and we talked about it last night, how little we know about what the Vikings are actually going to do compared to what we've been able to kind of decipher and figure out and almost plan out. It feels like anything is news at this point and having or anything might happen at this point with how this offseason is going and having Hendon Hooker picked for the Vikings by one of the preeminent mock drafters in the national media gets people a little bit nervous because there's obviously reasons to doubt why he would be a first-round quarterback or if he even is a first-round quarterback.

And the fact that the Vikings are in that area where they are most likely going to be kind of out of the range of the top four guys and they're left with either dropping back and hoping that one of the next level guys don't get picked or reaching for him. Seeing that the Vikings are predicted to reach for him at 23 has a lot of fans nervous considering how everything else has played out this season. So I get the angst and the nervousness, and I understand it. I totally understand why people are upset about it. I think what everybody knows is that what they do next at quarterback is going to shape the next five years of this team. And if you draft quarterback doesn't work out,

everyone has been there. You know how painful that is. You've seen it happen with Christian Ponder. You know that it is miserable to be that team who's drafted quarterback stinks just ask the New York Jets ask the Chicago Bears but also the upside of drafting a quarterback who's great or if you were to acquire someone like Lamar Jackson and he is great you also know the joy of that having seen Favre having seen the Randall Cunningham season, having seen even Case Keenum play extremely well, how much fun that could be. Even you could put Kirk Cousins last season into this category of when you win 13 games and you have a quarterback making a play

at the end of a game to win on game winning drives and whatever. Like, you know how great that is. And you saw flashes of it for most people who are around to watch Dante Culpepper going to an NFC championship, having number one offenses. Like it's really fun to be in the driver's seat of the NFL. How about if you're in Buffalo, if you're in Cincinnati, if you're in Kansas City, if you're even if you are not Kansas City and you've got the titles to show for it.

But when you are that team that every year you go into a season saying, because of Joe Burrow, we can compete for the championship. And the worst thing that can happen to you is losing to Kansas City at the last moment because you pushed Patrick Mahomes out of bounds a little too late. If that's the worst case scenario for you, it's a lot of fun. It's not a lot of fun to be the team who wins five games because you bought into the quarterback that doesn't work out. And it's also not a lot of fun to feel like you're stuck in the middle as the Vikings have been for so long with Kirk Cousins for the last five years. And it's also not fun to be the team that's sort of hoping that, you know, some random quarterback can work

out for you, a Matt Castle or something like that. That's also not a really great or hopeful place to be. So, you know, every direction is a risk, but you know that the worst one, well, the worst one is being stuck in the middle. We talked about this, but we also know that how you can get just locked into being bad also in the NFL if you make one mistake in drafting the quarterback. So if you're going to go all in on a Hendon Hooker in the first round, I mean, it's one of those things where no one can really predict if he's going to be good or not, but you took so many risks to do it. And there were so many red flags. Not only is he 25 years old, but also you have the ACL injury to go along with it. I mean, that everyone is going to second guess you if you do

that in the first round, if it goes wrong, similar to Rick Spielman and Christian Ponder, where the night that Mike Mayock said, as he was being picked, like, wait, I didn't have this guy as a first round talent at all. That is never going to be forgotten. So if you are the one to do that, then it's going to be held against you for absolutely ever. And the thing that I think maybe people don't really appreciate is like the shortness of a GM and a coach's tenure. If something goes wrong, like there is no room for error with almost anyone when it comes to making a decision at quarterback. So if they're going to do it, they have to be all in. But one thing, Jonathan, that it does sort of push me on is a, is one of my pillars, which is nobody knows, right. If something's going to work out but i can also see the major risks right where it's

like if you take a big risk on something like that that all of us could have seen coming and then it goes wrong well you know then you're going to get second guessed even though it's always been my stance that you should just take one take a a quarterback. And if it works out, it works out because no one really knows. And it's never the first or not always the first quarterback who turns out the best. It really challenges that with Hendon Hooker, because I just have a tough time believing that it's a great idea to take someone who's 25 years old in the first round. Yeah, we, we, I know you've brought it up before, but it's the brain and the brain and Whedon situation.

You don't want to draft a guy that old, especially with a guy, as Daniel Jeremiah says, that might need a year to sit on the bench because by the time he needs that year to sit on the bench, he's 26. He's the same age that Lamar Jackson is right now. You don't want to reach for a guy that you know you're going to have to sit for a year on the bench, and he's going to be 26 by the time he starts because by the time his five-year rookie quarterback deal is up he's 30 years old you know are you really gonna sign a 30-year-old quarterback to a monster mega deal and these tend to be 10-year deals at this point you're not gonna do that so why why invest a first round pick into that if why not just wait to see if he drops to a later round this isn't a jail and hurt situation where you're waiting to the second round this is you suppose

or the you you being predicted to reach for him in the first round that's there's a lot more risk that goes along with it being in the first round you're gonna get criticized more because it's the first round as opposed to if you just wait and if he's there in the second round, then you take him. Or if he's there in the third round, because the Vikings don't have a second round pick, if he's there in the third round, then you take him. But taking him in the first round is such a big risk. It seems so unnecessary when there's so many other positions of need right now. If one of those top four guys doesn't drop past 10 and you don't reach up for him, then

don't reach for the quarterback because that's not the place you want to be because that's way more criticism than going for the best player available i think what you mean is that it opens you up to more scrutiny it's probably the word you were looking for that when when you draft a cj stroud or bryce young at the top of the draft if it doesn't work out for you, then okay, well, then you get just bad luck. Like, does anyone look at, if they do, they shouldn't. Does anyone look at the Jets and say, oh yeah, what were you thinking was Zach Wilson? We all watch Zach Wilson. Zach Wilson has a monster arm. He was super exciting.

He made all sorts of plays. Now I'm sure some people will go back and say, well, I knew this or that or whatever about him, but please come on. I mean, that was a very logical draft pick taking somebody who had the season that he had at BYU had the workout that he had has the arm strength, the talent, whatever. And how could the New York jets have known that he wasn't really going to take the NFL all that seriously? You just really can't figure that out with guys coming out of college, how they're going to respond to the atmosphere. So that one, I don't think Joe Douglas gets a whole lot of heat with the New York Jets for missing on that pick. And you know what? The Bears wouldn't either with Justin Fields.

The guy was amazing at Ohio State. He's a great prospect. But if you take somebody that has the red flags, that's where we could come and go, did you overdraft that guy? Are you sure that you were willing to just ignore some of the things that were glaring right at you? But then by the same token, Jonathan, I think that we could also be completely wrong about Hendon Hooker. All of us could. There is a decent chance that we could. I think that the odds are pushed in one direction toward this not working more likely than it working because of his age, because if you're trying to evaluate

based on his statistics, well, you have to make everything relative to the guy being way older than everybody else and way more experienced than everyone else. And it really was kind of a one-year wonder type of situation, which is also another thing, right? Like another thing that people talk about, oh, were you just in a good situation in college? So you put up all these numbers and so forth. And if there are enough of those potential downfalls to a player then yeah you do open yourself up to a lot of people second guessing you in a more than they would if you had one of the top picks that's part of it it's just it really truly is all about an odds game because Hendon Hooker did put up great statistics. He is a decent athlete. Like he,

he does have some of these traits that make him in the conversation to be a first round draft pick. And my understanding is that the guy is really, really great as far as his character and everything else, which is a big deal in the NFL. If you're playing quarterback, just ask, you know, Johnny Manziel or even Baker Mayfield to some extent who may have had to get humbled a little bit last year but you're not going to have any of these problems with Hendon Hooker it's just what is the actual upside to him and the first year he's not really even going to be able to practice a whole lot with you because of this ACL thing it's not just playing because he could sit behind Kirk Cousins it's also the practicing and you know people bringing up Chris Winky or Brandon Whedon like those are fair guys to bring up because

they were so much older than everybody else that it it looks better than it actually is going to be when the guy gets to the NFL but how much does that push the needle well a little I mean it definitely does does it push it to zero percent chance he's good no so i think that if the vikings the weird thing about this jonathan is if the vikings did this we would bring up all this stuff and they would have to answer questions about all this stuff that we're saying at the same time i don't think you could dismiss it as being a bad idea or that they were clueless or out of their minds because fundamentally drafting a quarterback in this draft just makes so much sense so there's a big part of

me that says okay even though i think that's scary and that that has a good chance of just imploding if you did it i wouldn't sit here and say oh my gosh fire quacey send him to the moon, I wouldn't sit here and say, Oh my gosh, fire crazy. Send them to the moon. I wouldn't, I would not say that that wouldn't cause that would to me would mean, all right, this is your big shot. You guys evaluated this player. You believe in him. Now let's see how it works out. But at least what that would do is give you a, a future path at the quarterback position where the following season, that guy's taking over and he's going to take over at 26 and that could you know that who knows like how much better he can get but at least that would say to me you've got your path now let's see what you do with it and I would have

to say that at least from that perspective that's a good idea as much as it might pain some people to realize he fits almost perfectly into what the Vikings it almost he almost fits perfectly into their timeline or their time horizon because if they're going to keep Kirk Cousins around for next season and they're still going to try and compete getting a quarterback who's going to need a year to sit on the bench yes he will be 26 it's going to be a thing if it happens but he's going to need a year to sit on the bench and get used to the NFL and get healthy from his ACL injury that he suffered in November. It almost fits perfectly into what they, it seems like they're setting up for this off season to move on from Kirk Cousins next season, take the $28 million dead cap hit next

year. And you have a rookie quarterback contract who's had time to get to know some of these players on the scene he's been around the NFL now had a year under Kevin O'Connell and if they've if they've evaluated him and they believe in them then guess what that's that's kind of what we have to hope that's what we have to get behind because they're the guys who were paid the big money to make those evaluations and make those calls and if this is the path that Kevin O'Connell and Kweisi Doppelmensa believe is the right one that they can get because they don't think they're going to be in line for one of the top two quarterbacks next off seat or next draft because right now it looks like there's two maybe a couple more but the Vikings are that to be pretty bad to get up there and it doesn't seem like with the

roster they have in place right now, they're going to be there unless the natural tank absolutely does happen. Like you have wanted for, or if you've been calling for, for this year, unless that happens, then I don't see a way that they're going to be up there to be able to draft a Caleb Williams type player. They might just have to go with the guy that they can get right now. And that might just be Henning Hooker and hope that the year on the bench and the year getting

healthy works for him. Yeah. And that's always been my point about drafting first round quarterbacks is if the league believes a guy is a first round prospect, then he has a fairly equal chance to all the other guys that the league believes are first round prospect. That's why the Hendon hooker thing challenges this quite a bit because it's conflicting ideas. It's like, I have lots of proof that I can show you that nobody, no team is better or that we can't consistently predict who the first round successes are going to be. But I also have proof to show you that if you draft someone who's 25, you are putting your life in your hands. And that's at any position that it might not work out.

And that's where it's conflicting for me. It's difficult to say, would I like this or would I not like this? And I think there is a lot of people in the draft evaluation world who think that Hendon Hooker really can't play. And one of those, and you'll have to listen to tomorrow's episode of Chris Trapasso on the show, because he talked about why he doesn't believe that Hooker is any more than like a third round prospect.

However, a lot of the same people thought that Malik Willis was a top five prospect and he ends up being a third rounder who really can't play. And again, and then this sort of always devolves into me saying that the draft people know nothing and it's entertainment purposes only, which again, a lot of evidence to do, but I don't want to be insulting, but like, they really, they really don't know. I mean, there were so many people coming out a couple of years ago saying like, I think

Kellen Mond is really better than these other quarterbacks and they weren't even close and he couldn't even make a team in his what second year as a third round draft pick I mean draft experts are very bad at this you know who else is very bad at this the NFL because if they had a clue if they were good at predicting this Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson go number one and two and not Baker Mayfield lamar jackson doesn't fall to number 32 like there's so many of these instances even with jalen hertz jalen hertz can't throw and so forth and jalen hertz has turned into a great nfl quarterback that leads a team to a super bowl and and knowing all of that stuff like knowing all of the times that

they've been wrong makes me think that if draft analysts don't love Hendon Hooker, that doesn't mean a whole lot to me. It's really entirely about if a guy isn't going to start until age 26, I think your chances of him really greatly improving are very low. That doesn't mean it has to be to be a failure it just to me pushes the the needle in the wrong direction of like what your actual odds are but if they did it then that means they believe fully he's a first round prospect and you kind of have to just go with it and see what happens but i think that there's very reasonable criticisms to say that if you do reach and there's and there's backing to this too that if you do reach by that's and there's backing to this too that if you do

reach by that much and most people think he's a third round prospect and you take him in the first again doesn't mean that they're going to be wrong it just means that the odds are pushed in the wrong direction and so if you're reaching and he's old and he's got an injury that's going to hold him back from developing right away like this stuff's not a great start. But there have been quarterbacks in the NFL who haven't really gotten rolling in the league or gotten opportunities to start until they are much older. But I don't really trust the idea. I don't really love it.

I think I'd prefer that they trade up for someone else if the opportunity were to arise. And if not, then probably wait until 2024 as far as like if we are ranking these potential ideas. So before we move on to another topic, I would like the chat, as you guys are so good at doing, to tell me Hendon Hooker is so old that blank. OK, now somebody already had came in with a good one that uh said he can advertise for cialis that's a good one he could tell his kids about the good old days so hendon hooker it's amazing he's entering the draft at this age he's so old that blank i'll let you guys fill in those and we can read those as we go along uh speaking of mock drafts though Jonathan and how we don't really know what's going to happen

Mel Kuyper's got Levis Will Levis at three and he's got the Colts I believe trading up for Will Levis whereas Daniel Jeremiah has him in the middle of the first round where the Vikings could potentially trade up for him uh that's weird So that seems that there's not even certainty about where those guys should be ranked. I'd like you to make some predictions about the rest of the market, about just, you know, how things are going to play out the rest of the quarterback market, the draft, or if there's any other movement that could potentially happen. Give me, give me some takes, give me some predictions about where guys are going to land. I think Lamar Jackson ends up elsewhere. I don't know where that is right now, but I don't think it's in Baltimore. I think someone comes in despite all the talk we've heard

of teams not wanting to give in and give these fully guaranteed contracts. We've seen it. We've seen it happen across the league. We've seen it here in Minnesota that a fully guaranteed contract is out there to be handed out. If the is good enough. And Lamar Jackson is definitely good enough for it. You can put his injury history aside. He's definitely good enough. And there are teams that will be desperate enough to do it. Who says the Colts won't do it because they have a crazy owner who's willing to break the rules of the other owners and go after him. I mean, anything's possible at this point. I just think with the way this has played out, Lamar Jackson probably ends up elsewhere,

but I don't really have a good feel of where. The Colts feel like a good pick because I don't know how the cap situation worked there, but they just have that owner that feels like he might just be willing to do something crazy because he hired Jeff Saturday as a head coach out of nowhere. Come on. He hired a guy who's been on TV for the last six or seven years as his head coach because he thought he'd fit and make it work as head coach, and it just didn't obviously work out. So if there's anything that's, if there's any team that's probably going to do it, it would probably be the Colts. Maybe the Vikings, like Jeremy Fowler said, and like we discussed plenty about last last night but I just don't see it with how this thing is playing out this

offseason that Lamar Jackson will end up in this shade of purple anyways um that's what I got right now off the top of my head I don't I think Will Levis drops I I like Daniel Jeremiah's idea that he drops and he's gonna drop in to the teens and will the Vikings go after him? Maybe, but having him drop to Tampa Bay is kind of a, a sneaky pick there because Tampa Bay just went with Baker Mayfield. Didn't give them. I think they just gave him what a one-year deal.

What better place for will love us to sit for a year behind Baker Mayfield and whatever Tampa Bay are going to be this year. Probably not going to be good, but there are still weapons there. They've still got Mike Evans, and they've still got weapons there. So that could be a good spot if they can mold Will Levis into a good quarterback. But I think Will Levis drops into the teens and maybe into the later teens, and that's where the Vikings fans will get nervous about,

can we go up and get one of those top four quarterbacks? Because it'll be right there. The, the draft talk and all the, the pressure of that night will start happening. Uh, just let me read a few of these Hennon Hooker ones. Uh, he's so old. He played on Pangea, which is, um, before the continents separated. That's funny. That's funny. That's good. That's a good one. I've seen younger faces on money like that. His 401k is more mature than Johnny Manziel.

Helker is so old he has a MySpace account. You guys are good. You guys are good. Every night you guys bring it. It doesn't matter. Some players bring it every other night, like in the NBA or something, NHL. Not you guys. You guys bring it every night.

I am going to say that Bryce Young will be the number one overall pick. I think that there is manufactured talk about the debate. And there's even, I mean, Carolina doesn't want to say, because I'm sure Rogerger goodell said don't you do it we have so much drama built up if you tell everybody who you're drafting don't you do it but i think that a lot of times there's sort of this attempt to make it controversial and i could be wrong but it feels almost a little bit like hey what if you know what if fields went number one over trevor lawrence and like trevor lawrence didn't have a great this game or that game or

something and at the end of the day it was like the guy from tape to tape was the one who went number one overall the same thing happened with joe burrow where we kind of knew that he was going to be number one it was whoa what about you know could they do this and that you know that's what ended up happening i think that's what ended up happening. I think that's what's going to happen. Now, it's just a prediction. It could be completely wrong. But when they trade it up, I don't think they trade it up to go, hey, what if it's going to be this guy or that guy?

Maybe they did. Maybe they have two people that they like and they're going to decide between them or three. We've got predictions all over the place i saw uh gosh who is it uh former linebacker on nfl thomas davis yeah talking about how he thinks it'll be anthony richardson but he doesn't like anthony richardson which is again like weird take that goes under the category of there's no reason to be that confident that someone's going to succeed or not because you really don't know and we've seen it work before but so he he thought that and i've seen other people say it's cj stroud they're sending 11 of their front office and scouts to uh cj stroud's workout which is a little bit weird but you know i don't know um you know that might just be but who are they doing smoke and mirrors for?

So nobody, nobody really knows. Nobody really knows. And I don't know how many people they're sending to, you know, Bryce Young's either. Hard to say, or at least maybe they're trying to convince somebody else. Like say they're trying to convince the Texans. Like we really like this guy. We're looking real close. Maybe you should give us something to trade up. So that's always possible as well. The games that get played are flat out hilarious with

these NFL teams, but that's going to be one of my predictions is that Bryce Young is going to end up there. I was going to say that I would not count out the Raiders for still drafting a quarterback because Jimmy Garoppolo has had plenty of issues when it comes to injuries. I don't think he's a long-term answer and his contract does not suggest that he's a long-term answer. So that could still be something that plays out where they surprise us and draft Anthony Richardson to develop. He also, he's going to have to, wherever he goes, he's going to have to develop probably

for a year and not just be thrown right into the wolves that he likely can't start right away. So that situation makes a lot of sense. And I think, I mean, just because you made the prediction that Lamar is going to go somewhere else, I think I almost want to go another direction and say that he will go back to Baltimore, that whatever offer comes in, the Ravens are going to match it because owners, because at the, usually when it all comes down to it, it's play hardball, play hardball, play hardball. But then, Hey, we've got an offer on the table.

What do you think? And the owner says, all right, let's keep them because what's your other answer is going to be the thing that gets brought up from the owner. He's going to ask the general manager. Well, what are you going to do? Are you going to draft somebody? Are you going to trade for somebody? Are you going to, who thing that gets brought up from the owner he's going to ask the general manager well what are you going to do are you going to draft somebody are you going to trade for somebody are you going to what who's out there who can we acquire they're like well you know you got a mccown probably there's got to be one out there ryan fitzpatrick he looked great on tv i bet he's

still in shape i mean it's just going to be it's just going to be hard um i think for lamar jackson to end up somewhere else because they will either buckle and match whatever offer or the NFL will continue to sort of hunker down and not give him any legitimate offers and just force him to go back at the Ravens price, which is collusion. But, you know, what are you going to do? And I see that the head of the nflpa is already talking about this like once teams came out and started announcing that they weren't going after him come on now but i agree with your point about jim ursay do we think that there's any other quarterback movement other than the draft picks and you know i mean like saying kirk cousins whatever i don't know like that that seems pie in the sky that he could move anywhere before next year. But anyone else, because I like the one team that I'm a little just curious about because they would know how the arm surgery went for Brock Purdy would be San Francisco.

If San Francisco is maybe going to Tom Brady and saying, but what if you just like, you don't even have to practice. They just show up game day. You know, we got a children's room in the back. Like they can hang out there. That would be the only other one as if you think that that's actually going to happen. Or if you think that Aaron Rodgers does not actually go to the Jets because that situation remains kind of awkward. The fact that it still hasn't been completed, it can't just be the Packers playing hardball.

I know we're all willing to take, I know some people are willing to take Aaron Rodgers for his word because he's willing to be honest on Pat McAfee's show and only Pat McAfee's show. But it can't, at this point, it's gone on for so long. It's been, what, a week since Aaron Rodgers said that he was going to be a New York Jet and that it was just because the Packers were playing hardball. It can't be that at this point. There's got to be something else because it would have been done by now. They would have found a way to get it done because at this point,

all the chips have been laid on the table. Everybody knows what's going to happen. How have you not just made this complete yet? This is, at this point, this is kind of ridiculous what's going on. And someone's got to be, I think it's something more than just the Packers holding it up, wanting more for Aaron Rodgers. Because he's 38. You're not going to get a whole ton for him.

You can probably get a first round maybe because it's Aaron Rodgers. But you can't really play this kind of hardball. This is a bit absurd, but I think that could be a possibility that he doesn't leave and then he just retires and the Packers have to eat that. But it seems weird that it's still gone on this long. I like your 49ers idea and calling out Tom Brady because there was the video last year when he was entering the stadium and he took the pictures because he's grown up a 49ers fan. What better location to just retire and go and play your final year than a San Francisco 49ers team that's stacked on defense, that has incredible weapons on offense. All you really need to do is just go fit into Kyle Shanahan's offense and just succeed because the rest of the

NFC West, isn't that great besides maybe Seattle, if they can be just a little bit better this next year, I don't see the Rams getting back into it because they've traded away some key pieces, just really go be good in San Francisco. And the NFC is kind of there for the taking besides Philadelphia at this point. Yeah. And that's an interesting situation because Rich Eisen brought up the fact that people around the combine were wondering if Brady was going to make a last second comeback. I guess the other one would be if the Dolphins do anything nuts. They wanted Tom Brady there. They lost the draft pick by trying to get him and tampering.

It is very hard to get caught tampering. Very hard. And yet somehow they did that with the Dolphins to go along with the other goofy stuff that they do. But you never know with that. Like, is that storyline completely closed? They did pick up Tua's fifth year option, but all hell could break loose at just about any time in the NFL with a league that has Jim Ursae and the Dolphins owner existing. So I don't know how that's going to play out. Well, what if Anthony Richards and Will Levis are there for

the Seahawks when the Seahawks are up to pick? We know that they've done this in the past where they've signed Matt Flynn to a big contract and still drafted Russell Wilson. Yes, that was the third round. So there's a bit of a money difference there, but if one of those guys drops and then they're there at, was it five that the Seattle's pick that the Seahawks pick who's to say they don't do it again and sign Gino Smith to a big contract and have one of these guys who might need a year to develop on the bench. And then you hand it off or see if you can get something out of them in training camp. And you realize,

Oh yeah, this is that guy. We're just going to hand the reins over to you and we'll just eat this monster contract. We just signed Gino Smith too. Yeah. I mean, that's there's so many scenarios that could still play out because I think

it's actually a good idea for Seattle to do that. Yeah. That makes so much sense to me to have Geno Smith on this short-term deal and then draft someone like Anthony Richardson. And clearly Pete Carroll is not uncomfortable with having a quarterback who runs around and that needs some development because they started Russell Wilson pretty much right away, or actually I think right away, that he beat out Matt Flynn in that training camp

and then he just jumped right in. So he was comfortable with having an inexperienced and athletic quarterback from the outset and it would be a good situation for someone like Richardson to at least spend a year behind Geno Smith that's that is actually a very good idea I don't think that they'll do it but it's a good idea my question also is what the Jets do if this doesn't work out because the leverage the leverage thing keeps swinging back and forth because you can make a good argument. This is why it gets debated on TV is you could say, well, look, I mean, the Packers, like the cat's out of the bag. The guy's not playing for you and you don't want him to play for you. So what leverage do you have?

But then if you're the Jets, you've already strongly implied that you're acquiring Aaron Rodgers to the entire world through social media and everything else. And he's already said that. So, I mean, how do you not make it happen now? And then who is your quarterback? Like they have this really good team. Alan Lazar just signed there. What are you doing if Aaron Rodgers doesn't end up as your quarterback?

Like you kind of have to make that happen at that point you've already agreed to pay and he's on layaway and now you have to go you know and i have to go pick him up at the store and uh what are you gonna do get to the store and be like oh i'm not paying that price like that it's it's very weird how that thing is played out because once it's so public that everyone thinks it's going to happen, it's on both of you to make it happen. And more likely than not, they just find something in the middle of that. But, yeah, would it be Cam Newton who worked out today and I guess looked pretty good in his workout but has kind of gone past his prime?

Maybe he's got a Randall Cunningham second win to him. I don't know. But if you're the Jets, would you feel good about that? No, you would not feel good about that there's none of that there is nothing for you you're gonna get Tyrod Taylor to be your start what are you doing there's no one out there to go get so then they would have to what just I don't know start a free agent trade for Case Keenum I like I don't even know who their quarterback would be. So I think that will ultimately go through because both teams have so much at stake to make it actually happen. And if the Packers did not let him go, then they look completely classless. And this looks like, what are you doing?

You're not letting him go, but you don't want him to play. You're not going to have him play for your team. What are you doing? You're forcing the guy into retirement so they have uh also the potential to look extremely extremely silly and petty in public if they don't make it work so yeah carson wentz is still out there like good luck with that yeah somebody tried that last year not good uh not good the jets would be in big trouble uh another question for you jonathan adam thielen joined the panthers and he said that he thinks the panthers are a super bowl contender now look folks if you're roasting adam thielen

for saying he's excited about his new team and their prospects get off that list that says the vikings twitter is the most negative move yourself off off the list, please. That's too much. That's too much. Don't be quote tweeting that and be like, what? They're not a Super Bowl. Look, he took the best contract he could get. However, now you're so smart to say that. You're so smart to quote tweet it and be like, screw you, Adam Thielen. They're not a Super Bowl contender.

However, within two years, they could be. Here's a proof. Cincinnati Bengals. It doesn't take that long to turn around when you've already got some pieces to work with. If you draft the right quarterback, they could be a Super Bowl contender by the second year. Here's what I want from you, Jonathan. I want you to name the top five Super Bowl contenders at this moment, knowing that a lot can change for next season. And I want you to include a dark horse. So, you know, we'll, we'll, we'll just, we'll eyeball that. What a dark horse is, but five Superbowl contenders for next season and a dark horse or four and a

dark horse. I think the easy two are the teams that were in the Superbowl this last year, the chiefs and the Eagles. So we'll get them out of the way. Looking throughout the rest of the league, the Bengals have to be up there because as long as Joe Burrow is the quarterback, their window will always be open according to him. And they just signed the chiefs left tackle to be the left tackle for, or they just signed the chiefs tackle to be the tackle for Joe Burrow.

So they're clearly focusing on getting that offensive line better. That has been a little porous in front of Joe Burrow, and they've still got incredible weapons in their receivers. So as long as they keep all that together, the Bengals are there because they can kind of take that division by the reins right now. I don't see the Steelers popping up with Kenny Pickett as their quarterback. The Browns aren't going to do much, I don't think, right now. And then the Ravens, well, depends on if Lamar

Jackson is there or not. So I think the Bengals, Chiefs, Eagles are your three off the top of my head right now. Looking in the NFC, the 49ers belong up there. That's a questionable one because of their quarterback situation. It depends all on who that is, but they kind of showed last year, it doesn't matter who the quarterback is going to be. They still have an offense and they've got one of the best offensive play callers in the league that it almost doesn't matter who the quarterback is. They took Mr. Irrelevant and made him look dang good. And yes, he has to be good to do that, but still they may do and got almost to the Super Bowl. They got wiped out in the NFC Championship game

because injuries got in the way to the quarterback situation, but they were a step away. And my dark horse, do we consider the Chargers a dark horse because they haven't really gotten close? I want to say the Jaguars as well because I like Trevor Lawrence, obviously. And I think Doug Peterson is a really good head coach who can get the best out of that offense, but I want to lead more towards the charges right now. They've got a real offensive

coordinator for once. They got the guy that Mike McCarthy wanted to let go for some reason, because he ran up the score too many times, which is, it still breaks my brain to think that that's the reason why he let him go. But I think that a new offensive coordinator for Justin Herbert can get a lot better, a lot more out of Justin Herbert with that offense. You got guys that are a little bit healthier. Hopefully, Brandon Staley doesn't do some stupid things and play guys in games that they don't need to and kind of ruin them for the playoff run. So hopefully their coaching grows from what they did this last offseason or this offseason. So I think they might be my dark horse right now, but the Jaguars are right there on the edge as well. I will read you what DraftKings thinks. They have Kansas City,

San Francisco, Philly, Buffalo, Cincinnati as the top five. Funny, the Jets are sixth. Even with Aaron Rodgers, I think, come on, Jets. Come on, DraftKings. That's a little aggressive for me. The Detroit Lions, funny, are not really a dark horse in this. They're plus 2,500, which puts them even with, well, I guess they guess they would. They're even with the Chargers just ahead of the Jaguars. I think the Jaguars meet the standard of being a dark horse.

Once we get past like the top 10 or 12 favorites, I think that that does fall into dark horse category. The Chargers, the Dolphins, the Lions, all of them exist in a middle space of not quite like going way off the deep end with your pick, but definitely not considered the favorites. Dallas, as always, by existing and being Dallas, is right behind the Jets. So they're seventh best odds. So I can't pick them as a dark horse, even though Mike McCarthy is their coach. But they have had a good offseason. You have to say that they have had a good offseason, getting Brandon Cooks in there, getting rid of Ezekiel Elliott, who I think was actually hurting

them more than helping them. But yeah, it's hard to find a really deep one, but could Seattle be a deep cut here? Because think about last year, they drafted well well and they've got a quarterback who is now doing like a rich gannon thing if he plays just as well and this is a dark horse so this is not like any sort of favorite or anything but their roster overachieved last year they've been able to add to that roster this year they have two very good wide receivers an offensive line that's finally competent and we're talking about the nfc where it's wide open uh and at that point like i don't think it's nuts to think could they go from being like a nine win or whatever to something a little bit better than that and be a

dark horse that has a chance winning the super bowl with geno smith still seems like a crazy thing to say but i think your pick of the chargers is pretty good and i might go with the dolphins because the dolphins just got jalen ramsey they were a great team last year with tua not just like okay when he was healthy and that's always the concern but when he was healthy they were a great team last season i mean they even gave the vikings a run for their money with their third and second string quarterbacks playing in that game. Hendenhooker is so old that his first horse was a velociraptor. I mean, that's digging deep. That might be a reach, but I still like it. I still like it. That's pretty funny. I don't know that historically it quite matches up if

you had dinosaurs and humans at the same time, but I i'm not really good i'm not a geographer or geologist geologist yeah whatever uh jacksonville is a good pick jacksonville is in that same sort of gray area deep deep cuts if you were going to gamble right now you would go with one of the teams that might get lamar jackson you would go with atlanta for a team that might get Lamar Jackson or even, you know, the Patriots or maybe if you go crazy, the Steelers or someone that would really shock us. I mean,

the Steelers have seen it up close. They've gotten, you know, a really good look at him, but I think they're going to roll with Kenny Pickett. That makes them not truly a contender. The Giants would be a huge reach. I don't think the Bears are quite there yet. I think the Bears will be a huge reach. I don't think the Bears are quite there yet.

I think the Bears will be much better, but I don't think that they're quite there yet. So the last thing I had for you, Jonathan, is Dante Hightower is retiring, which what a freaking career Dante Hightower had. Just the biggest plays, the biggest moments in the super bowl and one of the players who i have long had great appreciation for somebody who always steps

up in the biggest moments of incredibly smart like violent everything a linebacker should be yet somehow under the radar because they always won with tom brady and bill belichick and all defensive players for the patriots is it what do they have like two guys who went to the Hall of Fame from all those Super Bowls Seymour and Ty Law and I think that's it which is absurd when you think about like how this usually works with Super Bowl teams Super Bowl teams when they win they usually go and put a bunch of guys in the Hall of Fame but I think Hightower is one of the most underappreciated players in the NFL over that time relative to how much he meant and his team won. I want you to give me an underrated player,

not easy to do, an underrated player on a Super Bowl team that was kind of your favorite, like somebody that didn't necessarily get the most talk but was deserving of the attention. So I've got two. One is questionable whether he's underrated or not, but I'll get to that. I'll get to my case why he might be underrated. But my first one is sort of Minnesota related, and it's Jarek McKinnon. I mean, you look what he's done, what he did as a Viking,

and it earned him a massive contract from the 49ers. He lost two seasons due to injury, but then you see the huge plays he made for the Chiefs in this last Super Bowl, especially is that one – it's the touchdown that sticks out to me on that – I can't remember what the play was, but he just goes out wide, and they find him for basically a walk-in touchdown. And he had play after play after play for them this season. And he was what?

He was in the comeback player of the year award race because of the career that he's had. He lost a bunch of years to injury. But before that, he was one of the most dynamic weapons the Vikings had, especially in that 2017 season when they went to the NFC championship game. He was so versatile. He's such a good running back

outside of just being a good runner. He's great catching the ball. He was so versatile. He's such a good running back outside of just being a good runner. He's great catching the ball. He's super dynamic, and I've always liked Jarek McKinnon. My second one is a Hall of Famer. This is why I'm saying it's a little questionable, but it's Leroy Butler. It took him, what, six years to get into the Hall of Fame as one of the most dominant safeties of his era. And as an article that I read on him wrote, he's left out of his own statue. There's a statue outside of Lambeau for the Lambeau Leap, and he's the guy who basically invented the Lambeau Leap, and he's not in it because the statue's there for fans to do the Lambeau Leap instead.

So he's left out of his own statue. Can you get more underrated than that? I like that. I like that that that's a great case and you're right that he took so long to get there and should have been there much earlier safeties we talked about this with the Harrison Smith debate about whether he'll make the hall of fame I think he won't because safeties just don't get their attention yeah uh and you almost have to have like six seven all pros you have to be Ed Reed or Troy Palomalo of a generation, or you just don't get in. I'm going to bring up kind of a funny one,

which is Andre Rison. And I know this is reaching way back, but Andre Rison caught a touchdown in the Superbowl for the Green Bay Packers. He only played for the Green Bay Packers for five games and caught 13 passes, but still ended up playing a role for them in that Super Bowl. And I think that not just what he meant to the Super Bowl team, but his career, because it was always marred with strange stuff, like the singer burning his house down and so forth. But yeah, if you don't know about that, that happened. One of the TLC singers burned his house down. But yeah, that, if you don't know about that, that happened. One of the TLC singers

burned his house down, but he was a great player. I mean, he was over a thousand yards five times and was consistently one of the best receivers in the entire NFL. And yet didn't get a whole lot of love, I think because he was just an enigmatic and, you know, things didn't work out in a lot of different locations. So that came to mind for me with him. And the other one was Terrence Mathis was one of the he didn't make any plays for the Super Bowl team. But I was looking at the 2001 Super Bowl in New England, the Patriots, and they had some really amazing names. This one, my favorite part about like Super Bowl trivia is guys who latched on and got rings. Actually, no, I was thinking the wrong, I was thinking the wrong person. Burt Emanuel was who I was thinking of. Like Burt Emanuel

showing up, Terrell Buckley showing up on this team. It's always funny to go back through Brian Cox, remember the linebacker, to go back through and find remember the linebacker to go back through and find all the random players and Jermaine Wiggins former Viking Jermaine Wiggins on the 2001 New England Patriots there are so many of these great names Antoine Smith was a running back around for a long time he was kind of their power guy that year that end up on these teams for Super Bowls that you totally forgot had any role in those Super Bowl teams so those were those were a few of my favorites but uh davante hightower totally underrated uh players so anyway um what's up tomorrow with you know like who's gonna drop some crazy rumors on us tomorrow i know that maybe tomorrow we'll talk about the salary cap and everyone's

eyes can bleed but there it is a little strange i have to say jonathan's a little strange that all of a sudden they started to dip into void year land and i don't really know why and you wonder okay is there something coming here and that's why they're doing so uh every day something new still in viking land that's why we do this all the time. And so we'll be back at some point. I can't guarantee that it's tomorrow, but it'll certainly be soon. Oh, we're planning on Thursday doing an NFC North stream special with Tyler Dunn, by the way. So it'll probably be in the early evening, kind of the same way.

Tyler goes to bed early. I don't know. I don't get it. Keep an eye out for that, though. It'll be on the page even if you miss it. But yeah, we're going to do he's obviously a great feature writer and things like that, so we're going to do a whole special in the future, I think, on Thursday.

Anyway, thanks everybody for joining again, and keep your eyes out for rumors. They're out there. The truth is out there somewhere. We'll talk to y'all later.