Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Draft Night Coverage Hour 1 - Picks 1-5

Episode Date: April 25, 2025

Streaming live from the Purple Insider podcast bunker, Matthew Coller reacted live to night one of the NFL Draft. During hour one of the livestream, Coller was joined by Andrew Krammer of the Minnesota Star Tribune, as well as Dane Mizutani of the Pioneer Press to discuss what the Vikings should do at No. 24 and react to picks 1-5 of the first round.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey everybody, welcome to draft night. The NFL draft is just about to begin and I can't tell you how excited I am to take you through the entire first round here. And we've just done so much along the way, so many questions, so many mocks, so many drafts and so many scenarios, consensus boards and reports and rumors and all those things all leading up to this evening. So I can't say enough how honored I am to have you joining me for this very special night. And I think just to open it, what I'd like to say is that this is probably the most fun

draft night we're going into from a Minnesota Vikings perspective, because there isn't really a lot of pressure on the Vikings to draft one thing or another, or it's a failure. Do it a certain way, or you've screwed it up. Quacey, you're fired. If you don't fill whatever need. As I was talking to people today, I went golfing with my friend Sam extra and we were having a conversation out there and we were just going back and forth. Like, who do we think it's going to be? Who do we think it's going to be?

And we came up with like 13 different people and to have the amount of intrigue that they have going into this pick is just so much different. Now they did surprise us last year by drafting Dallas Turner, but we knew they had that second first round pick. And we knew that if they didn't use it on moving up for a quarterback, that they were ultimately going to use it on a defensive player. It surprised us that Dallas Turner was still there, but it didn't shock us that they were getting a defensive player in the back end of the first.

And you go back years to the draft where they absolutely had to draft Garrett Bradbury as a center because they needed that position so badly. And you go back to having to draft corner a couple of times because they had just let their corners go out the door into free agency. And so going into it, we knew, all right, well it's probably going to be a wide receiver that turned out to be Justin Jefferson in a corner,

or it was probably going to be Elijah Vera Tucker or Christian Derrissot offensive line. And we all guessed right on that. Even when Jordan Addison was picked in my final mock, I had the Vikings taking, I believe Jordan Addison because they had Adam Thielan leaving and how are they going to fill his spot? So it was not that far away from what we expected. But tonight there has got to be, I don't know, 20 or 30 different ways that this could go, including trades down.

I mean, with quasi-adaphalmense, you never know in terms of trading up, trading for a player or sticking and picking trading down a few spots drafting corner safety defensive tackle wide receiver there's so many different ways that this could go and I truly cannot wait to find out how it is going to go before we get into really rolling here just I guess the one update as far as rumor wise goes is that the Jacksonville Jaguars are trying to move up into the number two pick and I mean wherever Travis Hunter is going to go it's not going to be a good football team because when you're the best player you don't

get to go to a good football team but I did think that if the Jags trade up and take Travis Hunter, the most exciting player maybe to come into the draft wide receiver slash corner is going to go to Jacksonville, huh? The least exciting market. But if he doesn't, then he's going to go to maybe Cleveland or the New York Giants that are a total disaster as a franchise. So what we'll be doing tonight just just to lay it out for you, is we've got Jonathan Harrison,

the producer of this show, behind the scenes. He is going to pop in with breaking news, huge developments, and we'll talk about those things. And we're gonna have a few guests coming in, expected to have Andrew Kramer pretty shortly from the Star Tribune. He's out at TCO Performance Center, then Dane Mizutani also out there, TCO Performance Center.

It's going to check in from there and we'll get their takes on how the board may play out tonight. And Dane will come in as the picks are starting to go off the board. And then later it will be, we're going to have Brian Murphy and also Manny Hill as well, two staples of this show. So it'll be very exciting as we go along to have different people popping in. Speaking of which, we have Andrew Kramer, who is inside TCO Performance Center. And there it is! There it is! The local TCO Performance Center. That is proof. And also that you're just covered in

purple behind you there in the wall. So that's not how I paint my house. No, no, it is not. You are. That is absolute definitive proof that it is not an AI image. You are out there at TCO Performance Center. So listen, Andrew, what I was just saying is as we tried to figure out the options, you and I had lunch yesterday and we're talking about the same subject. Just who's it going to be? How many different options they have? Why don't we start there? How many different options do you think they have?

How many different iterations of this could you see happening? Oh, I could see quite a few, especially if, if you see these quarterbacks slide into the back end of the first round whether it should or Sanders Jackson dart I think that's kind of the ideal Scenario if they could pick one because you got the Giants sitting there at pick number 34 eager probably to jump up into the back end of the first round and Frankly the Steelers are that spot that everybody kind of thinks that second quarterbacks gonna go to if not the Saints Trading up as well. So that scenario is the one I keep playing over in my head because when you look ahead

of the Vikings draft order, the Chargers at 22, they have 10 picks. The Packers at 23, they have eight picks in this draft. If the Steelers pass on a quarterback at 21, I imagine the Vikings are going to be the team most eager to trade back next and a team that is going to, the phones are going to light up quite a bit. But if they stay there and pick, Quacy talked about wanting obviously 24 guys that you need to be happy with i think they would find one of those guys they'd be happy with whether it's a derek harman whether it's a maxwell harrison tyler booker any number of guys at various positions uh nick email worry

the the safety just a lot of different options for them. I could see them doing, but when you talk, and Matt, you know this as well as anybody, when you talk to people who study these draft classes and do it well, it seems like the picks number 20 through 50 aren't that different, which is why I'm sure the Vikings will not be alone in wanting to trade out. The only scenario I do not envision is them trading up in any fashion.

I just don't see a guy, unless a day Baron or somebody started to slip. I just don't know who would be worth it for them to move up or what they would use in order to do it. I mean, I guess that they could go into their twenty twenty six picks or they could go Mike Dicka mode and just trade every pick that they have remaining to go up and get one guy. And I think we do know, though, as far as let's talk about the stick and pick thing, because one of the things I enjoy about our jobs is when we get press conferences

and they don't want to tell us something, but we want to know. And we're trying to play this little game of like, tell us about like your philosophy about something as if they don't realize what we're trying to get out of them. And you know, when quasi talked about the stick and pick versus trade down, I think he believes it's a little bit different than a lot of the analytics community that just says, Hey, more picks are better and that kind of thing. Because if you can get a star player, the other spots can be filled in by Eric Wilson and free agency or Jordan Mason in a trade.

But the only way you get your hands on Justin Jefferson or Christian Derrisaw is through the NFL draft. And they're really actually super lucky to get a Jonathan Grinard and free agency and have him work out as well as he did. That's a rarity that you get players that impactful. And as the picks go by, especially as you move out of the first round, this has been looked at a few times,

but when you get out of that first round, your chances of getting a star go down pretty significantly, which makes me wonder how did you interpret the way that he talked about that idea of not trading down versus trading down in the pre draft press conference? Well, he always talks about value and how subjective it is. And I think you're right in general in terms of obviously the top 32 picks are always going to be better, but they

kind of view it in terms of the top 100 as well. But generally the top 100 in a draft is going to be your best shot. And this is very different from what Rick Spielman did, which he just kind of took the generic more bites at the apple, more lottery tickets are always going to be better, which is why they end up with, I think it was like seven, seventh round picks in 2020 or whatever it was. Kwasi doesn't view it that way. I think he views those day three picks extremely expendable. And I'm sure he sees the value in trading back in the late half of the first

round to pick up more day two capital, which seems to be the most underrated, most available capital. So I think you're, you're right and I agree with you in terms of how he talked about it. He didn't seem to just think in from everything we know, three years covering him. He is not somebody that clearly wants to accumulate a bunch of those, you know, lottery tickets. This is something where getting blue chip players has become more important to him.

That's why you trade up for Dallas Turner. That's why you even trade up one spot for JJ McCarthy and don't risk the chance of moving or missing out on him, even though it was just one spot. So I think blue chip is important to them. It's just a matter of how many blue chip in first round grades do they have on players? Is it more than 30? Is it less than 30? Which would lend you to moving back and getting one of those guys just below in the red tier. So that all depends on how they graded this out. But I do think that just in general, we can talk about top

100 picks as something that they covet and value and know that you're not going to want to trade back farther than that. Guys, if you watch the show all the time, you know that I'm a hat guy, but that you're not gonna wanna trade back farther than that. Guys, if you watch the show all the time, you know that I'm a hat guy, but if you're wearing hats to cover up for your hair loss, then I've got something that can help you. It's called HIMS. If you've lost your hair,

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Prescription products require an online consultation with a healthcare provider who will determine if a prescription is appropriate. Restrictions apply. See the website for full details and important safety information. So the way I've been thinking about it in his comments is, yes, he did say you better have 24 players

that you could stand up and cheer for, but I think that teams will make a list that are in this area of if this guy drops, there is no way we let him go past us because teams will do it for their own fit more than just a big board of the best players. In fact, that's how every team does it. It's who do we want, not how we rank every possible player. And I'm sure that there are teams that only rank a hundred players overall, because they only find a hundred that they feel like

could possibly fit for them. And my question is then who would that be, right? Like who would be the players that if they drop shockingly? And look, we've seen guys that the mock draft universe thinks are going to be top five picks in the past. A Will Levis, for example, who was a consensus top ten draft pick, and he falls out.

And I know maybe the quarterback position is a little bit different here, but it feels like every single year there's one or two players that are completely shocking when they start to slide down the draft board. And I'll tell you two of them landed on the Minnesota Vikings roster in Derrisaw and Justin Jefferson and even Dallas Turner last year. Did anyone not have Dallas Turner as a top 10 prospect in that draft? And then he ends up at the backend or at least in the second half of the first round.

So who in your mind could that be that everybody is in love with, that maybe the other teams, or just by based on other teams need, could start to tumble down the board? I think you're already seeing Jaday Barron not get talked about the way that he probably should. And maybe that's just media,

maybe that's just people in media not liking him as much as, you know, you hear teams talking about him, but that just screams a Brian Flores guy. And it may be somebody that is too much of a tweener for other teams to want to reach that high on. It seems to me too, that if you look back at recent drafts, corners and defensive backs are not going as high as they used to. You don't see a ton of top 10, top 15 corners. And this class is one where you've got enough guys who could probably go in the back end of the first round that you might see some of these guys slip and start falling to the Vikings. And again,

I don't think they're going to trade up, jump up for one of these guys. But if they let the board fall to them, you're right. You might surprisingly see a guy like Barron somehow at 21 or 22, which I do wonder if he gets past 19 at Todd Bowles and the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, but that's somebody that I just see mocked all over the place. You see and read the scouting reports on him and he's somebody that I just wonder if teams are going to kind of look past the value that he's going to bring, which I think would be a mistake. And I obviously think he's somebody that would fit this Vikings team pretty well.

So I'm surprised to see how much people seem to think Derek Harmon is gonna fall and maybe that's just the depth of this Defensive tackle class the fact that you have Kenneth Grant Mason Graham ahead of him oftentimes That's somebody that it seems the Lions would probably be his kind of floor But I think the Vikings would love if he was available at 24 as well by the way in the chat, answer along with Andrew for his questions, because we all know as much as you do about what Vikings are going to do in this draft. I was just talking to someone in the league the other day who said, yeah, we've been telling every NFL insider we like a certain player, but we don't.

We're not drafting that guy. I believe that. I mean, why would you? Right. Why would you? So you never really know what they actually think. But I'll tell you one other thing that I heard just yesterday about how the League views this draft versus maybe some of the mock drafters.

And I could be completely wrong by pick four or my source, I guess, could be wrong by pick four or five, but that there's a possibility that Walter Nolan is way undervalued and could go in the top 10. Whereas Mason Graham may not be as valued as some expect. And this is actually reflected in a couple of the final mocks. I think maybe Dan, Daniel, Jeremiah, Dane, Bruegler. And I wonder if they may be heard some of the same things. So there's levels to me of, whoa, if this guy drops, it would be crazy. That's the Mason Graham.

If he's not that guy that everyone expected him to be at the very, very top, and it's actually Walter Nolan. Okay, well, you definitely take him. And that might be one where you do move up two spots or something if he were to drop back. But then there's like, Jaday Baron is a great fit. And that might be one where you do move up two spots or something if he were to drop back. But then there's like, Jaday Baron is a great fit. I have liked him this entire time. It just, I just see Flores all over Jaday Baron. The other guy is Will Johnson, who is interesting to me.

I saw the chat was debating Will Johnson a bit. There's a little bit of both sides with Will Johnson. He's not a good tackler. I don't think Brian Flores loves that. I do think that could hurt some of his draft stock, but he is very instinctual and he gets picks and he makes plays on the football. And he is more of a zone type of corner,

which we know that even though Brian Flores is gonna stand in front of us and say, yeah, we wanna play more man, we just don't really see that from him. He's gonna play the way he's to play, which I think is smart. But those are the other two guys. It's like if there's a totally shocking drop, Kenneth Grant is another one that could possibly slip and make them stick and pick.

But I was trying to do it's actually funny, Andrew. I was trying to do a list of stick and picks like who would who would I stick and pick with? But then I came up with like seven guys. I was like, wait, that means I would trade down. But, but what do you think about the possibility of a shocking drop from somebody?

Yeah, I think it always happens. Like you mentioned, whether it was Will Levis, um, there's always, it seems one or two every year that kind of slipped out of the top 10 that people think should go early at Dallas Turner is a great example from last year as well, where so many people mocked the Falcons taking him at eight. Ironically, Kirk Cousins doesn't get him as a teammate and get somebody else. But I think every year that's going to happen. It's because as good as these mock drafts are, because you have so many good industry leaders, you mentioned some of them, they seem to hear obviously so much and kind

of it builds a consensus. And there's always going to be one thing that throws it. Now the latest curve ball is Ashton Gentile to the Jaguars. So the Jaguars seem to be all in on a playmaker at number five. That wouldn't be too much of a shocker, obviously, but in terms of guys that you just don't expect slipping out, um, I don't know, maybe Will Campbell out of LSU, if the Patriots don't take him at four, he could be there with the Bears at number 10 or something like that. Those kind of small slides always seem to happen year to year because as much as time and effort is put into these mocks and

this research and reporting and talking to people, teams are not telling the truth oftentimes. Teams want to hold their cards close to their chest for very good reason. And this is when we get to find out this is what we've all been waiting for to see who is going to be the one that falls and I think the Vikings are in a good spot at 24. I think they're not too far into the back end of the first round right there at the start of the final third of that round or around that I guess and I think that's just a good spot for them to be. I think when we talk about the board we talk about the second quarterbacks or the third quarterbacks falling in that range I think they're going to be one of the first calls we talk about the second quarterbacks or the third quarterbacks falling in that range. I think they're going to be one of the first calls a team like the giants is placing, um, because they're going to be within reach of that pick number 34 at

the start of the second round. I got two other guys that if they fell, you might have to just do it. And one of them is a bit of an awkward fit, but I still like it anyway. And that's Jalen Walker. He has been talked about as a top 10 potential draft pick, and he is an outside linebacker type. But what we know about Flores and what we know about really the NFL is that rotational players are king these days on the front seven.

And this is why Derek Harmon has been so much of our discussion because, well, yeah, they're full at that position. But that doesn't mean the guy can't play. And the same thing would go for Jalen Walker, who is, yeah, they're full at that position, but that doesn't mean the guy can't play. And the same thing would go for a Jalen Walker who is yeah, he's more of an outside linebacker, but he has played a lot of inside linebacker. Yes, you just drafted Dallas Turner last year, but Andrew Van Ginkle is not under contract. You can rotate these guys in if they all play 600 snaps, then

you could get the value out of them and he might just be the best player on their board. And the other guy is a Calvin Banks from Texas. If the NFL does not view Calvin Banks as a tackle, he will drop. If they view him as a tackle, they'll take him and then he'll play tackle in the NFL. But they usually just don't take guards unless it's Quinton Nelson. You're going to be like the best guard or a Zack Martin or something. They don't take those players unless they think they're going to be elite, elite, elite. And if they don't, they make their way to the back.

So we should talk about some different positions and just the arguments for them. And I don't, I haven't asked you what argument you like the most. We talked about a bunch when we were having lunch yesterday who we think it's going to be, but I don't think you told me which position you like the most for the Vikings and answer that question as well. Chat, what position do you like the most if they stay at 24? Yeah, to me it's defensive tackle. And I corner is the one that comes to mind as well. I just don't think safety, the positional value is there. Even in a Brian Flores system, when you get a Theo Jackson,

you get a Cam Bynum, a fourth round pick, you can kind of create those guys just by finding diamonds in the rough, smart, tough, durable guys who don't need to be hyper athletic. I do think there's a ceiling there at that position, but I think outside corners are so much harder to find, which is why in the secondary, I lean toward corner.

And then when you look at how this draft class is projected, it seems like there's a decent number of talent to go in the back half of the first round, but that there's probably gonna be a run there that leaves it pretty barren in the second or third rounds. Defensive tackle, there's more depth, but when you look at the Vikings roster, it's obviously the elder statesman in the room

with Jonathan Allen, Harrison Phillips, and J. Von Hargrave. And then it's some nice players, some nice projects, some nice guys that you want, Jalen Redmond, Taki Taimani, Levi Jake Rodriguez. Those are guys that could come up and be nice pieces for you, but you're lacking that kind of blue chip talent that is going to be your long term guy there. Whereas at EdgeRusher, which again, is a more valuable position, but is a spot that they've just got a logjam right now. Even losing Patrick Jones, those reps, they want to go to Dallas Turner. They want Dallas Turner to prove them right at that spot. And I don't think they're going to try to look for a guy to put in his way right now. Maybe somebody falls to them that they can't resist. But to me, defensive tackle makes, makes too much sense,

considering too how we expect this board to fall and how everybody talks about it. So I wouldn't be shocked if a Derek Harman ends up in Minnesota Viking by the end of the night, if everything checks out with him, if all their interviews, the top 30 visit they did with him, if they love all that, I don't see why they wouldn't stick and pick there and keep him from a team like the Detroit Lions who love to do the exact same thing, which is stack up their defensive line. And there was some report about Derek Harman having an injury concern, which you always wonder if a team puts that out there. Yeah, please say he's injured just to scare somebody.

Be like, wait, he has an injury. We didn't know about his injury. We're going to have to pass, right? This happened with Christian Derrassat. This happened in 2021 with Christian Derrassat. His agent thought he was going to the Las Vegas Raiders at number 17 and his agents got incredibly mad with NFL media for running with a report that he was dealing with a, I believe abdominal muscle injury that was unknown to teams.

And his agents are saying, no, we've been telling everybody upfront about this. Everybody still loves this guy. And they were floored when Alex Leatherwood went, I think it was 17th or 16th or something to the Raiders that year. They thought that was his floor. And so maybe the Vikings kind of benefited from exactly that just a few years ago, but you always got to have your antenna up when something like that comes out of nowhere, like, okay, sure.

A lot of a split in the chat. We got some wide receiver because those people definitely watch the show a lot of split in the chat. We got some wide receiver because those people definitely watch this show a lot. And they know what they're talking about. Then defensive tackle corner. The wide receiver thing we've discussed it. It makes a lot of sense. I don't expect them to do it. But when quasi it awful, Mensa talks about scarcity,

I think that we should be listening as far as the defensive tackle position goes. But then there's a little bit of a wrinkle here with the guards this year where I mentioned Banks, but Tyler Booker, Gray Zable, and there has to be some value specifically to if you get one more guy there, look what this offensive line looks like right now. I mean, I would put it as a top 10 offensive line right now off the bus, and you just have to hope that some guys stay

healthy. But I mean, elite tackles now a much stronger interior, and I think Blake Brando can play as a starter in the NFL. But when you show me a gray Zabel at the combine or I was just watching Brandon Thorne who does an amazing job over trench warfare, breaking down offensive line. I shared his video cutups of Tyler Booker, and I was just watching Brandon Thorne who does an amazing job over trench warfare breaking down offensive line I shared his video cut-ups of Tyler Booker and I was like, you know I think I see why all those NFL people supposedly love Tyler Booker

There is an additional value when we talk about well positional value scarcity to getting five up there There are so few teams that have five good offensive linemen. So I think if they did draft a guard, it would be justifiable even if it isn't the traditional way we think of positional value. Yeah, I see what you're saying. I do think guards are more just findable though. And that's tough to tell Vikings fans

because they'd say, sure. Have you looked at the last 10 years? Like, yeah, they're real easy to find. The Vikings just have not put a ton of resources into it. When you only spend on Josh Klein's and you only spend on whatever. And I know we've talked about this all off season. Will Fries is a great example of how the money has risen at that position. Guards are obviously being more valued, which means they're harder to get in free agency, which kind of flies in the face of what I was just saying. But I do think starting guards come from middle rounds of drafts.

It's not like you have to pick a first round guard. Defensive tackles in general seem to be harder to find with those freak talents. And there's a lot of them available every single year at the top of drafts. And then they go very quickly and they get paid even more than guards in free agency when they're available.

So to me, I just don't think the value is quite there with interior O line as it is with interior D line. And then when you just look at the Vikings depth chart, Quacey, Kevin, they talk about, this is not gonna be a need-based draft. We're gonna just take the best impact available. The best impact might be a true three tech, a true a bruiser up the middle defensively

that the Vikings have just not had. And I think Jonathan Allen still has it at age 30. Javon Hargrave showed that he could still be the same guy in three games last year, but those are question marks in the long haul. What are they going to look like in December and January when you want them playing their best when oftentimes older guys are not, especially if they're relied on too much. And that's why I think those guys need some help in the middle. I think that value, they could just get more out of that spot. Whereas at guard, you can kind of rely on the fact that Ryan Kelly and Christian Derriss off, for instance, if they're around Blake Brandell,

you hope it's going to look better, obviously next year. People have been asking about the diet. Dr. Peppers, I do have a couple, but it's going to be a long night. So I don't think I'm just going to pound those right away. Maybe like 10 picks in. We'll have one and then before the Vikings pick or something, and then we'll have a celebratory diet. Dr. Pepper. So Dana is off. Yeah.

Dana's a tiny is on his way onto the show shortly. He's prepping in the other room for everything he wants to say on the show. So the Tennessee Titans are also on the clock and I would just ask the chat to stay with the TV. They don't ruin the picks for everybody because some folks have us streaming while the TV is on and they're watching to get Vikings analysis. So don't ruin it for everybody who's trying to watch TV and line it up with this. I'm going to wait till I see it there before I say, but I'm pretty confident

in who the number one overall pick is going to be. But the Titans nonetheless are on the clock. So before you run, Andrew, why don't you take a shot at it? What do you think they're going to pick? I'm going to go with Derek Harmon. I've been back and forth between the best corner available versus the defensive tackle. And unless Baron is there, I just think that's the guy that makes so much sense.

If he somehow fell that far that they would take him safety. You can't talk me into that being worth the positional value there. I'm going to go with Derek Harmon, a defensive tackle. And I think that's going to be a mean defensive line if they get him. That has been my pick as well. So we'll see if we're both right or if we are both wrong or if the Vikings are not even picking today, which is going to be pretty anticlimactic, but we'll have a lot of fun anyway.

Andrew Kramer Star Tribune, your coverage on the Star Tribune there from TCO Performance Center. People should make sure to check that out. And you got teammates in Green Bay as well. Emily and Ben covering it for you guys in Green Bay, which should be great for them. So thank you very much for your time, sir. And we will talk again soon. Sounds good, man.

We'll see you. There you go. Andrew Kramer from the Star Tribune. And in the next room over is Dane Mizzittani at TCL Performance Center. Also has lined up the camera very nicely to see the TCL Performance Center to have absolute proof

that you are out there covering the Vikings draft tonight. All right, Dane. So Andrew and I just kind of set in the stage here. The Titans are on the board. We are very much far away from the Vikings making their pick or maybe trading out of their pick because they don't really have any capital to move up if they want to. But we were just discussing about the different positions and which ones we like the best for just the concept of the Vikings going after. So what is your overarching thought on just the different positions that they could ultimately be looking at here with 24 on the board? positions that they could ultimately be looking at here with 24 on the board? Receiver, right? I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding.

I don't think that's going to actually happen, but it's kind of funny, right? This, this draft, because I feel like in the past or in the history of drafts, if I would have said offensive lineman is, is what you're going to want or defensive lineman is what you're going to want. Your defensive lineman is what you're going to want. A lot of people would just turn their nose. That's boring. Who cares? Who cares about the trenches? Something with this fan base, and maybe it's

because they haven't had a legitimate guard or a legitimate defensive tackle that can just get after it for a very long time, but they seem to want those two positions in particular. And that's kind of where I land right now. I think if the board falls in your favor and you can get a defensive tackle that you can pair with Jonathan Allen, Javon Hargrave, even the depth

pieces you have, Jalen Redmond flashed last year, Levi Drake Rodriguez, I know they still like him, Taki Taima. If you can add somebody like a Derek Harmon, like a Walter Nolan, like a Kenneth Grant if he falls, that's probably where I think would peg them as like, this was a good draft for them and that guy can make an impact almost immediately. So that's where I land. I know guard makes sense too. And I saw your eyes pop up

because it looks like we have a trade. We do. So let's talk about what's going on as of right now. Roger Goodell has just walked up and announced that the number one overall draft pick is indeed Cam Ward. And we can have a discussion on that. And the Browns and the Jaguars have agreed to a huge trade that is going to give Jacksonville the number two overall pick and Cleveland to number five dropping

back, meaning that they were not so sold on Travis Hunter or Abdul Carter or a quarterback there that they were OK with moving back and presumably giving either Carter or Hunter to the Jacksonville Jaguars already right off the top. We are cooking with gas. So let's talk about the exciting part of this because we have already long projected Cam Ward to the Titans and I just wish him the best. And I really mean that that is the worst organization in football that's not named the Browns. And he's an exciting player.

I don't really see it in the same way I did with other quarterbacks last year, but I hope he turns them around. Best of luck to him. He's a really fun player. But this trade here, let me see. We got some details. Number two, a fourth round or a sixth round.

Doesn't seem like it's a lot for them to move from number five to number two. That is really interesting day. Yeah, I have. Yeah. The second round pick. So the Browns get the fifth pick in the draft. Number thirty six. Oh, and then the twenty twenty six first is what Rapoport say. Oh, OK. OK. I didn't see that.

I didn't see that. If that's like and then like I feel like right now and around the draft time, every like information is just pouring in. So that might not be true. But like, no, I see that now from Schefter. I needed to open the tweet to expand it to see that. OK, let me let me just read it here now because we're scrambling. The Jags are sending five a second rounder this year,

a fourth rounder this year. That's what I had initially seen. But then a 2026 to move up three spots. I mean, how could the Browns not do this? This is an incredible trade for the Cleveland Browns. Even if you love Travis Hunter, like that, that's one of those. If I get a godfather offer, I pull the trigger. And I think that's what Andrew Berry is doing is like, we love Travis Hunter. We think he's Shohei

Otani, but you have to say yes to this. You have to. There's no way as an organization, especially one like the Cleveland Browns that has trended the way they've trended ever since they've traded for Sean Watson. This could be a franchise-altering trade. I know you have to part ways with the generational talent that is Travis Hunter, but that's a crazy haul to move up three spots. And James Glad, like wait, what a way to start your general manager career with Jacksonville, just going balls to the wall all in. And if you believe in Travis Hunter like that, I guess do it. I'm assuming that's who they're going to pick, but I'm floored. I'm floored by that compensation.

I don't see any justification whatsoever for doing this. If you are the Jacksonville Jaguars, who do you think you are? If you're the Jaguars, do the Jaguars really think that they are a Travis Hunter or possibly Abdul Carter away from being a great team? I mean, this is usually the type of desperation trade that you do when you feel like one player could completely alter your franchise. Now, I know that where they're at, just with their quarterback situation, they are in a win now mode with paying Trevor Lawrence, but the rest of the roster.

We were both in Jacksonville last year. Did you see a team that was ready to take a next step with one player? This also makes me think and I could be wrong. We'll find out. It makes me think if they're going to take Hunter, is he going to be a wide receiver? Then does this mean that he is going to be more of a wide receiver than a corner? Yeah, he could play both and that's altogether possible that he could play 100 snaps a game. It seems still not likely since we have heard that before about different players.

But I mean, they need wide receivers. They need weapons probably more than they need a corner. The only way this makes sense is if you're playing a monitor snaps a game, like if you really think you're getting a number one receiver and a number one cornerback and you're playing him 100 snaps a game. Like if you really think you're getting a number one receiver and a number one cornerback, and you're okay just sacrificing longevity to this kid's career because you wanna prove that you are willing

to give him the opportunity to do that, I think it would be foolish asset management to play any kid, even one as well conditioned as we've heard Travis Hunter is, 100 snaps a game. I think it's a death sentence on their career from the jump. But that's what I feel like they're, and we're going to hear from them today. I know that, but if you're making this trade and you're trading as much as you have, I feel like it's because you're getting two players. Like you feel like you're getting two players and

that's the justification. Otherwise, there is no justification. So is he a receiver? He better be. Is he a corner? He better be because you just traded away the mortgage of the future for... He's generational. I get that. Wherever you have listened to and consumed draft analysts or a draft analysis in the lead up to this draft, all of them agree he would be the best corner in this draft. He would be the best receiver in this draft. Jacksonville has to hope that they got both at this point. And maybe they did. Maybe this is just their way of saying,

he's playing both ways, we're gonna risk it. But man, that is, he has to play both ways for this to make sense. That is really something. And Nick mentions that Brian Thomas Junior Travis Hunter could be nasty. Brian Thomas Junior, probably the most underappreciated wide receiver of the 2024 season because he played for the Jaguars. And it also could have some ripple effect potentially on the Minnesota Vikings because the Cleveland Browns are now drafting at 33 and number 36,

which is actually a good place to draft in this draft when you're the Browns and you've got nothing for talent on your roster either. So they may just make those draft picks and be really happy with early day two selections. I mean, I think if the Vikings were drafting there, we'd be saying, hey, don't do anything with those picks because those are gonna be good. At the same time, if they are interested

in taking Shador Sanders and he gets past the Pittsburgh Steelers, and this could also apply to Jackson Dart or Jalen Milro. We're not really sure how these teams feel about the quarterback. I always think that when you have some people projecting them in the very top and some in the second round,

then we're just totally lost on the quarterbacks. But that could mean that Cleveland could look at packaging some picks to move up with the Minnesota Vikings in 33 and 36. you don't have to move so far away. As Roger Goodell walks up and says, it is Travis freaking Hunter going to the Jacksonville Jaguars. And I just want to say, I'm sorry to the National Football League fans who are going to have to watch Travis Hunter on Thursday night against the Tennessee Titans time and time again.

It's just, you know, I already wasn't super pumped about him going to Cleveland because they've been such a bad franchise forever. But Travis Hunter going to the Jaguars, it feels like a Travis D. That he's just not going somewhere good or fun. I we might we might not see him on national TV all year long, except for a Thursday night game. So I guess we're going to have to watch the highlight reels for whatever it is that he does in Jacksonville, or maybe he'll turn around the whole franchise.

I don't know. Yeah, I mean, it's funny. Before I walked into this room, I was in the media room and Alec Lewis of the athletic absolutely hates Jacksonville. It's least favorite was in the media room. And Alec Lewis of the Athletic absolutely hates Jacksonville. It's least favorite city in the world, I think, the way he speaks about it with such vitriol. And that is where Travis Hunter now lives and plays. And we'll try to repair that franchise in a way that I'm not sure is possible.

But I hope he can do it because he is a special talent. He's somebody that we deserve to see as people who consume the NFL, as NFL fans. We deserve to see him with more spotlight than we're perceiving he's going to get playing for that franchise. So they better be right. I hope they're right because I'm a fan of the kid. But man, that's a lot of pressure to put on a kid right away. Going to what you said about how this has a ripple effect on potentially the Vikings, it does make some sense naturally now, right? Like,

are the Vikings going to get 33 and 36 for 24? Probably not. That would be a haul. If Andrew Berry calls up Quacey and says, do you want 33 and 36 for 24? Quacey should say yes faster than he's ever said yes to anything. But I think if you're the Browns, it gives you a trade chip, whether that be 33 or whether that be 36, not both. But one or the other packaged with another pick

where if you're Cleveland, if you part ways with 33, you still get to take a player in the second round. If you part ways with 36, well, you still have your original number 33. So it makes a trade up seem pretty plausible, especially knowing the relationship we know that Quasido FomMensa and Andrew Berry have. Look, 930 could roll around and the Vikings could pick at 24, and then that entire thing I just said is rendered pretty moot. But it makes sense now. If you're Cleveland, not only do you add a first round pick next year

on top of your first round pick, which is probably going to be pretty high because you're going to suck. It gives you some optionality now to get back in the first round without risking or without giving up the ability to take another player in a draft that by all accounts is pretty loaded from 20 to 60, 20 to 80. So I like the move for Cleveland and who knows, maybe we're talking about this trade and what it means for the Vikings here in a few hours. Colts, sorry about that with the pick. Roger was standing there and I thought he was just going to say Travis Hunter and then we could all go forward. And I looked back at Dane and they actually

didn't announce the pick until a minute later. So I apologize. I'll wait till they show because I'm looking back and forth here. I got my Twitter over here. I got Dane here and I got the TV here. I will wait until it comes across the bottom to actually say it. That is my bad. Though I think we all knew that Travis Hunter was going to be that selection.

So, you know, there you go. Just going back to the Vikings in the trade down, does it make it more plausible? I think that it doesn't really change much unless we know how the Cleveland Browns feel about Chador Sanders. And what I found very fascinating, Dane, this year, and I guess this always happens, is that when it came down to the final last couple of days,

all of a sudden, Shadur Sanders and his betting odds and where people were mocking him, it just sunk. And I wonder if that has something to do with teams having their final draft meetings. Right before the draft, teams go through a bunch of different scenarios and the only information that tends to be accurate in the draft reporting process is right before the draft or if maybe we've all been fooled on Chador Sanders being you know not being a top draft pick

or something and someone's just going to take him here at number five like Cleveland, but that does become more realistic for the trade down. I don't think it massively changes anything for the Vikings, which makes me circle back to where we started in the conversation with how should the Vikings approach the 24th overall pick. We've talked a little bit about defensive tackle being a potential option. We've sort of joke about wide receiver, but if they take one, I will jump out of this chair, um, with excitement that they, that they actually, uh, bought into what I was saying, but aside from that, how much are you looking at positional value

for this, because I can, I can be convinced either way you could tell me, look, you could get the best safety in the entire draft. And I think the most mocked player to the Vikings is Nicky Manoir. And that makes a lot of sense because we just talked to Harrison Smith the other day. And Harrison, somebody asked Harrison, is there going to be a 2026 or whatever? And he was just like, hold on. I don't know about that. And as much as everyone

loves Theo Jackson, it's not like you can't work in Theo Jackson or Nicki Meware or Malachi Starks. The only problem with taking a safety is back into the first round. Safeties have not always worked out that well. Lewis scene is not the only one to go bust recently. And as we saw, Javon Holland was available. Justin Reed was there in free agency. Cam Bynum was, you know, Trayvon Morrig. Like that's four or five guys right off the bat of free agency that you can bring in. And I think part of the Vikings strategy

includes the fact that they can get their free agents. And that was the one thing I took away from O'Connell the other day. He said, we got almost every free agent we wanted to. And as long as they win and as long as they have this coach, this culture, those facilities, they're at TCO Performance Center, then they're going to know that they can get whatever free agent positions they want. That's why to me, they should stick to one of these harder

to get positions like defensive tackle or of course wide receiver. 100% agree. I mean look at I said this on the pod a few days ago, but look at Josh Mattel is later on draft pick can't buy them made around draft pick that actually played corner and that you turned into a good safety. Steel Jackson waiver wire claim. That's not to say you just automatically can find good safeties on the scrap heap because it does take some very intentional scouting and figuring out is this a guy who could fit with us. But anecdotally, and what we've seen out of Brian Flores is he can get a lot out of guys that don't necessarily need to be drafted high. And when you hear Quezadaf Ameza say the word scarcity of position, and that's something I've really held this and there is no other place and we've talked about this at length on the pod

There's no other place to get a dominant defensive tackle Then if you just spend on it and you draft one really high Similarly with I guess like but like guard is even one where it's just like you can find a guard sometimes in the sixth round. Trace Smith was a sixth round pick for the Kansas City Chiefs. Chris Jones was the second round pick. Like, I think there are positions throughout the league. If you want it, you have to go draft it. And that, to me, screams defensive tackle.

I will not keep beating the drum for wide receiver, I promise. But that also applies to that position. And I was listening to you and Andrew Kramer talk before I hopped into the other room. And you said if there's a guy who just falls randomly and it's such a plummet and he's there at 24, who do you take? I mean, it's Ted Taroa McMillan for me. If he's there at 24, who do you take? I mean, it's Ted Taro and Macmillan for me, if he's there at 24, that's the last I'll say about receiver. But actually with defensive tackle,

there is just so much positional value there. I get getting the best safety and how that could feel really good on draft night. But the third best defensive tackle might be more impactful for this franchise immediately and moving into the future. All right. So the New York Giants take Abdul Carter with the number three pick, probably the most obvious selection that you could ever take Abdul Carter, a tremendous edge rushing prospect for the Giants. But what that says,

since they took Abdul Carter is that they're not taking should do or Sanders here. And as we go through the next number of picks really for the quarterback position, the next spot to be talked about is the New Orleans Saints at nine, but Nick Underhill who is kind of the version of me in New Orleans, he had reported that he did not expect them to spend the ninth overall draft pick on Chador Sanders either and now the fall could potentially begin for him. But these first three picks even though they're not to the teams we expected

with the Jaguars making this move up are certainly the players we expected. And now there's a lot of Will Campbell. There's a lot of Mason Graham. There's a lot of Ashton Genty and things start to heat up. Will the Chicago Bears make their trade up to try to get Ashton Genty? I wonder though, if they're gonna try to do that. I think we just saw the price to play poker

for a trade up in the top 10. It is going to be very high. And Blowfish has said Flores won't be here in Minnesota. Won't always be here need players they could play other defensive schemes see the way I look at that is Kevin O'Connell is pretty clear about what he wants from his defensive coordinator now I think he didn't know that when he got to be a head coach and even if Brian Flores goes the NFC championship it gets hired the next day

as a head coach. I would guess they go with Durante Jones after that. They're going to stay with this scheme. They're going to be multiple. It has been so successful. And if you get good players on the defensive side, then it's going to work. You'll find ways. You're not going to go from playing this very aggressive multiple scheme to just a complete

overhaul unless it's not working. So if you draft a Nicky Meware or a Melaki Starks, and they're multiple type of players, they're going to continue to be that. And if they're good, they're good and they'll figure it out. So I'm not thinking, oh, three years down the road, then this guy might not be, or even one year down the road, someone's usage might completely be or even one year down the road. Uh, someone's usage might completely change, uh, before I let you go. Cause I know you got to get back to writing about what's

happening in the NFL draft. Who do you think? Who do you think it's going to be? I've landed on Derek Harmon. I think it's just, I know they met with him at the combine and all they've liked him. I know there's a medical leak out there that there's something screwed up with his shoulder. I don't know if you guys talked about this, but that worked out pretty well for the Vikings like a few years ago with Christian Derrassaw when there was something wrong with his, it was like a core muscle injury. He falls to them at 24. He's one of the best left tackles in the game. I think Derek Harmon makes too much sense,

and I will couch my prediction by saying any defensive tackle. I think they go defensive tackle at 24. I think they stick and pick at 24. Everything we've heard from Quasi Dolphimensa and Kevin O'Connell, if you just read between the lines, if you just pay attention and read the tea leaves, it's like, Hey, we have a pretty good roster and we want someone who can make an impact. If a guy is screaming at you at 24 and you think they can make an impact, I don't know

if that's worth 33 and 65. I don't. If you are in love with the guy, take him. I think they're going defensive tackle here in a few hours. Okay. So we have had the same opinion. You, me and Andrew Kramer. So we're either going to all look super smart or we're all going to look super dumb. We'll find out in not too long, but it could depend on how things change

for the board. Derek Harmon could go off earlier than we expect. And maybe this medical thing is not all that much of an issue. We also know the Vikings are not afraid of the medical stuff. And O'Connell said that to us sitting there in Florida at the owner's meetings where he said, I almost don't even worry about it when I hear a player has an injury, which is a little cocky. I think after a year last year where they stayed healthy, but he pointed out to us like, hey, you know, Andrew Van Ginkle

had a thing and that worked out fine. And Andrew Jones, Andrew Jones, Aaron Jones had an issue and that worked out. Okay. Multiple things had kind of bothered him through the years. I think it has bit them before with Andrew Booth Jr, but it has definitely not been a huge problem when they've brought in people that do have past injury problems. They play football, they get banged up, stuff happens. Derek Harman is your pick. And I appreciate you very much, Dane, checking in from TCO Performance. I got to say the lighting, the camera you use, it just looks great.

It looks very crisp in there tonight. So thank you so much for your time. I've learned from the best. You've really you've really set me up for success with this. So there you go. Goodbye. I appreciate it. Take care, Dane. Thank you very much. All right. So we are off to a pretty interesting start here. And the expectation per all the mocks is that Will Campbell will be the next guy up.

And we'll see if that comes to fruition with the New England Patriots It's pretty obvious that that's somebody that they would like a very reliable type player They need to build around Drake may but if we just go back to the very start of the draft here so far Did not have a lot of Conversation about cam warden and here's what I want from you guys. Gonna have the next guest in about 20 minutes. Let's get some conversation going. Questions, thoughts, you've heard a couple of the guys

out from TCO Performance Center and what they think the Vikings are going to do. What do you think the Vikings are gonna do and what's on your mind right now as we are a couple picks into the NFL draft and a ABSOL, I think that's how it's pronounced, says Cam Ward will be interesting to watch. Tennessee needs help. He's not coming into a great situation.

Coming into our situation, Jonathan Harrison, producer of this show. Usually you pop in when there's something afoot. What is going on, Jonathan? The Patriots pick is in. Roger Goodell is announcing it right now. Will Campbell is that pick. But the more interesting thing now is the Browns are on the clock and Diana Rossini reporting that they are taking offers at number five.

So that could be pretty much anybody could place bears, be the guys, be the team to move up, take Ashton Gentry at running back. Who knows? It could be. It could be because earlier today there was reports that Ryan Poles was trying to move on. Thanks. Jonathan just pops in, pops out. They might trade up. See you. But is Ashton, you know, when I saw that Ashton Gentry.

Was maybe a target of the Bears. I had two different thoughts. Number one was, well, that's not great for the Vikings because this guy to face Jameer Gibbs and Ashton Gentie and Josh Jacobs in the same division for six games would be pretty brutal on the run defense. But I also thought it's not a great value pick for a team that needs a lot, especially on defense. They could use more weapons.

They can use more offensive line. So if Ryan Poles is willing to sell out to get a running back, there have been great running backs who have not worked out before. Leonard Fournette was generational, right? And that didn't work out. And the same went for Trent Richardson. Even you could say that Bijon Robinson has not changed the Atlanta Falcons franchise. They have not played in a playoff game

since drafting Bijon Robinson at the top. And we were all told, oh, it's different this time and he's different and he's been really good, but I don't know that he has entirely changed the NFL. So maybe you would want the Chicago Bears to sell out to try to get a running back. But we'll see here as Cleveland is on the clock at number five, the Patriots indeed take Will Campbell, pretty obvious draft pick.

They need some protection for Drake May there. And going back to what Absol said about Cam Ward, I feel like Cam Ward is the least interesting first overall draft pick in a long time. There have not been a lot of opinions on him other than like, yeah, we all get it. They drafted Will Levis. It did not work out. That is something to bring up, by the way, that officially with Cam Ward being drafted by the Tennessee Titans, Kevin O'Connell made the right decision not

drafting Will Levis. Levis fell down the board. We all thought maybe, I mean, there's a quarterback falling. Maybe you should take him. And O'Connell said, not the guy for me. And he was dead right because that same team is drafting a quarterback. Just two years later, that leaves Levis in flux. And maybe since the Vikings didn't draft them, they won't be making a trade for him as the backup quarterback. But

even though cam ward has not been someone of interest to me, probably of interest to you, he does have a ton of talent. It's a really bad team. Will they approach it slowly with him or because he's older, will they go and just throw him right into the mix? Could that be problematic? He's a very, very confident player and he is exciting. I do think he's an exciting guy that maybe plays a little James Winston-like without all the interceptions and then he could be good and he could turn them around. It's the right thing for them to do, but there just hasn't really been much debate about the number one overall pick.

I will be watching. I will be intrigued by whether that happens. Randall mentions that Walter Nolan to San Francisco is a popular mock pick. Walter Nolan seems like the most quick rising type of player in this draft where everyone had him in the back end of the first. Then all of a sudden, like Walter Nolan's getting mocked in the top 15. I mean, maybe that's going to be the case because his explosiveness is just off the charts, but his numbers to me were not as impressive. And I was a little dubious on him in comparison to some other guys. So will a team reach past what the consensus is an intern clay is working

on these picks versus the consensus and we'll talk with him a little bit later about that. Just a dude says, do you think Cleveland takes Gentie or Graham? So I did see on Twitter already who they're going to take, but just say it's an interesting question who Cleveland is going to take, but just say it's an interesting question who Cleveland is going to take. But apparently they are sticking and picking. They are not going to be moving down. Like Diana Rossini was reporting, they were taking some phone calls on. So we'll see what that means to the rest of the board who they take here.

what that means to the rest of the board, who they take here. Arek or Eric says, will burden be available 24? I think so. And just as it pertains to those players that at the last minute, all of a sudden they go up or down in a lot of the mocks. Burden has been a guy that has seemed to go down in a lot of the last second mocks and That makes me wonder if he slides into the second round Remember that year with Debo Samuel AJ Brown T Higgins these great wide receivers was that 2020 and CD lamb and Jefferson's is unbelievable receiver draft course that isn't this year

But there were some receivers who were mocked as first rounders that just slid into the second for maybe no other reason than just the fact that there were a lot of other wide receivers and they had some sort of flaw, they weren't perfect. This year feels like all the receivers are those guys. And the pick there is in and is Mason Graham to the Cleveland Browns. So they decide to go with him leaving Ashton Gentry on the board. Will someone try to trade up for Ashton Gentry or will he be selected by the Las Vegas Raiders? That is the question now as we sit and for the Raiders, Pete

Carroll loves running backs. I think they'll probably end up taking him and then he'll go to another place that needs some flash, needs some flair, needs some entertainment value just to end up in Las Vegas. And they have been such a dead franchise since they move there, at least getting Pete Carroll and Tom Brady running things, they get a quarterback Carroll and Tom Brady running things. They get a quarterback, they get a running back potentially here on the board in Gentie

and maybe we'll see some movement though if somebody wants to try to trade up to get him. But I think after that first trade to go up from five to two was so wild giving up the next year's first a second rounder. I can't see any other team being able to move back. So yeah, the Cleveland, I mean, what a job by Cleveland. What a job by Cleveland though. Do we, you don't often say that, but they need to save some jobs moving.

Now, of course, if Travis Hunter becomes the best player in football history and the most valuable, and he's a corner and he's a wide receiver, which was reported by Schefter that he's going to do both. Well, then we're not going to say what a job by Cleveland, but in this case, Mason Graham is a very good interior defensive line prospect. And if they have him paired with miles Garrett going forward, their defensive very least is going to be good.

And now it feels like they're going to draft a quarterback later. It's just who is that going to be? Hunter says I saw a few media personalities earlier say that Gray's able is a lock to go to the Dolphins at 13. What I have been told, if you will, I was talking to somebody in the league the other day, uh, who said to me that it's not, we've talked about picks like 25 through 50 being close together, but it's not just that it's even picks, maybe 10 through 20 being viewed wildly

differently on team draft boards based on how well they fit. Just, hey, we see this guy as a perfect fit. So we're going to stretch on him past what the consensus is because we just really, really love that particular player that might be Gray's able Miami might say we need offensive line. We think he's a perfect fit. We're not going to be able to trade back. Let's just take our guy.

And in this draft in particular, especially now that we've seen what a trade up price looks like, at least early in the draft, teams might just say, hey, we're going to grab our guy. We don't care if we're going to get criticized for it. Nano Joe says Lewis Riddick compared Cam Ward to Patrick Mahomes. I am old enough to remember when every NBA player that came out that was exciting and could dunk and was like six foot six got compared to Michael Jordan. It's the same thing that happens with every quarterback who's fun and is a playmaker while they're Patrick Mahomes. What people forget about Patrick Mahomes is that he does not make

mistakes with the football. And that's something that we saw a lot of from cam war that would be a pretty concerning there for me is the amount of turnover worthy plays that he had. And the amount of times that he had to come back in games, he would get his team in trouble and then have to come back. Not exactly something you're looking for. Also, I wasn't was my homes younger or had put up all time. Great stats.

Yeah. I mean, you just can't ever make those comparisons, but it happens. That's what you say on draft night. It's exciting.