Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - EMERGENCY PODCAST: Harrison Phillips traded! Thielen next? (Part 1)

Episode Date: August 21, 2025

Matthew Coller talks about the Vikings trading Harrison Phillips to the Jets and Alec Lewis joins the show to grade training camp. The Purple Insider podcast is brought to you by FanDuel.

Welcome, everybody, to an emergency podcast. The Minnesota Vikings have made a trade, but it's not the trade that we thought the Minnesota Vikings were going to make when the day started. I think we all woke up this morning to a Tom Pelliserro tweet that was like six in the morning or something. Pelliserro tweeted out that the Vikings are in the market for a wide receiver. So then when I saw the Pelliserro tweet, the Vikings have traded, I thought, well, get ready for your number 19 jerseys to come back out or get ready for some wide receiver we've never heard of to be joining the Vikings. And instead, number 97 traded by the Minnesota Vikings, Harrison Phillips dealt to the New York Jets in exchange for a 2026th, sixth round draft pick, and then a swap of. of picks in the sixth round in 2027. Or I guess it says just a swap of picks in 2027.

It doesn't say which round. So a 2026, sixth rounder, and then a swap of picks in 2027 for the Minnesota Vikings to move on from Harrison Phillips. And I got to say that right off the bat, a little bit of a surprise. Now, some further details have come out about the split. And let me pull up my Adam Schaefter. emergency podcasting here, folks. There's been a few more details and then another trade that has just happened as well with the Denver Broncos making a deal with the New Orleans Saints.

So a lot happening here after the final day of training camp. So Schaefter adds that it is $3.7 million the Vikings are going to pay of Harrison Phillips' salary this year. So the Jets get a defensive tackle on the cheap. and when it comes to those draft picks, it was the 2027 6th rounders that are swapped. But the main story there is the Vikings. Okay, more details here from Schefter

that the Vikings also added a 2027, 7th, a swap of 6th, and they end up with a 2026 6th rounder. So really we're talking about just late round draft capital coming back to the Vikings, that they end up mainly here with a 6th round. pick at the end of the day for Harrison Phillips and then they are paying part of his salary. Again, this is a pretty darn surprising move happening here, although I will say that as training camp has gone along at that defensive tackle position, there is one guy who has really stood out

as a potential rising key player for the Vikings. And that is Jalen Redmond. And as the summer went along, Redmond just kept getting better and better. Also, Levi Drake Roderick. had a really good training camp, I would throw out there that it's possible the Vikings thought that Elijah Williams has been so good that they wanted to make sure that they were going to keep him as well. And they were so deep and there were so many guys there that you end up with Harrison Phillips being moved just last night or two nights ago. We were sitting here talking about could there be a surprise cut? Could there be a surprise move? And I went through all the positions and thought, oh, well, I don't know, you know, it's a win now team. And so who,

what veteran would you cut? And it had just been my assumption that they were going to rotate with Hargrave, Allen, and Redmond, who had separated himself from the rest of the pack and that it was going to be challenging. As I, as I rode and as I talked about in the 53, it's going to be challenging to fit Elijah Williams in there. But I think Elijah Williams also had a ton of buzz. He got a baldy breakdown the other day. It's, you know, it's been, he's the highest graded player on PFF during the preseason. And maybe they thought all this accumulated, they've got four guys that they feel like can play. And they may have thought that Redmond had had a better training camp overall than Harrison Phillips and is a better fit to rotate in and out.

And they have been impressed by Levi, Drake, Rodriguez. And then you add in the fact that they have Tyrone Ingram Dawkins, who has been really good. in camp every player that we name and later in the show you're going to hear from alec lewis and we grade the position spoiler alert the defensive tackles have got the highest grade on the entire team they have been absolutely excellent hargrave's been dominant alan has looked like he has refreshed his career they've been downright problematic for the minnesota viking's offense and it seems that they felt like they could create a little bit of cap space, get a little bit of draft capital back for somebody that was actually going to be

the surprise cut if they did not trade Harrison Phillips away. So Phillips, a couple of years with this team had been a key player. I thought to last year's defense, which is why this does come as a surprise. And he's been a main guy. He's been sort of front and center for this team. He's been talked about as someone who is a main communicator of the defense. And line. So to remove a piece like this at this moment after practicing with all of camp, to me that says, well, two things. Number one, their confidence in Redmond, who did play last year and their confidence in the growth of Levi-Drake Rodriguez must be extremely high. It really must be. And it also says that maybe, just maybe, they needed another draft pick

to send to another team for a wide receiver, maybe someone you know, maybe the Carolina Panthers. It is my understanding from chatting with people today about the Adam Thielen situation is that this is not an invention of the Minnesota media. That is my understanding. This is not an invention of fans who love Adam Thielen. This is something that is very possible.

to happen that the Vikings could look into and potentially go acquire Adam Thieland. That is a very real possibility. When you think about it, like it makes entirely great sense. And I've talked about this before on the show that if his name was Tim Jones and it wasn't Adam Thielen and he had the stats that he had in the last couple years and the background that he had, then, you know, I don't think that we would be talking about him the same way with any sort of skepticism. we'd be saying, yeah, go get that guy.

And it's just my understanding that that option is part of the consideration for the Vikings when it comes to this receiver situation. And I know that, you know, Palliserro putting it out this morning made it pretty darn clear who it was talking about wink, wink, nod, nod. But I think that Carolina for the right price, because of their situation with young wide receivers, remember, they also brought Hunter Renfro in this, off season and there's been positive reports that have come out of camp there that Adam Thielen might have been moved far enough down the depth chart that they would make

that deal. But the Vikings don't have a fifth. They don't have a sixth for next year. But now they do after this trade for Harrison Phillips. And if they were going to Carolina and saying, hey, we're not going to give up a fourth. Remember we talked about this the other night. A fourth seems a little on the high side for Adam Thielen. Now, the only other thing I could think of, this might make sense would be if the Vikings took their third because they are getting some comp picks from the Daniel Jones thing and from Sam Darnold.

Maybe if they took their third and swapped it with Carolina's fourth for next year, did something like that that they could acquire Adam Thielen. But this certainly has red lights all over it. We needed one more draft pick. And also we're probably going to move on for me. him. But it is a pretty, pretty big surprise. I did not have this really on my radar. I had it on the radar that Redmond had been good and that Levi Drake Rodriguez had been good and that Elijah Williams had been good and Tyrone Ingrid Dawkins had been intriguing. But I didn't think

they would actually make that move. So it feels like they would rather have the guy who's been on the rise. And we've also talked about this through the years that they like players who can emulate what someone else does. So if they want to have their guys playing more of a four, three type of look, that could be with Allen and Hargrave as two, three technique type guys. And that's where Redmond plays and that's where Levi Drake plays. And then they want to continue to develop Elijah Williams, don't want to lose him. But wow, it does feel like on the risky side to move on from someone unlike Harrison Phillips, when you are talking about a guy who has been very solid for this team over the last couple of years, I think that his run stuffing ability, his movement

ability at his size, his strength have played a pretty important role in the success against the run over the last few years. Jonathan Bullard was in that mix as well. And Jerry Tillery last year, this now is a totally different. thing. And I guess it shouldn't surprise us that Brian Flores would have something up his sleeve here to revamp this defensive line in the way that he did. But this is a surprise because I wouldn't have thought that with the injury histories of Hargrave and Allen, that they would want to remove anything that would help with the depth. I guess it just shows the humongous confidence that they have in the depth of this defensive line.

And maybe they thought that it was, and I did point out the other day. And I guess the way I processed it was, oh, they're trying different stuff, was that they moved Phillips down to the second team during the joint practices, and they played Allen and Hargrave. I guess what that tells us is that Allen and Hargrave as a combo, that was trying it out to see what it looked like against the Patriots and moving Phillips to the second team. And I suppose if he got outperformed by Jalen Redmond in those practices,

they may have just thought, well, we've got so many dudes. Why don't we just get some draft capital back, some cap space back? It sounds like what did Shepter say, $3.7 million. And then there's a few pick swaps in there. But the main story is the Vikings come away with a sixth that it appears they could attempt to trade for a wide receiver. now there's still other options on the table if carolina's price is too high and they don't want to do it for thielan i also believe that there will be multiple offers for adam theelin if

he is out there still a very good wide receiver and some of you have asked if uh thelan would come back at least my understanding is that that wouldn't be a problem um it is adam thelan's favorite state in the entire nation my friends and i don't think he would mind finishing up his career as a Minnesota Vikings. So I think that that could be coming. I mean, what, after all this stuff in camp? What a, what a explosion here on the last day of training camp. I was just sitting there, minding my own business, having already, no surprise here, having already recorded a podcast today with Alec Lewis, which I will still bring you and is still perfectly relevant after this trade. But I was writing down notes from J.J. McCarthy. I was going over my notes.

and takeaways from practice and then this bombshell drop. So I'm curious about your guy's reaction to Harrison Phillips being traded. And I'm going to struggle to keep up with the comment section with as many of you are commenting on it right now. But do you, I don't even know how to say like the trade because it's a weird trade to like since you're removing a player and not gaining one. What is it? How does this trade make you feel? the Vikings moving on from Harrison Phillips because the way I look at it is it probably means that the younger players that this team has been developing over the last year and we talk

about the drafts all the time. Well, this guy was an undrafted free agent so he doesn't count for the draft class. Well, maybe if Levi Drake is a seventh rounder who becomes a significant player for this team, then that helps the draft record, which is what really matters, not the strength of the team to some folks. But, you know, I think it shows you that what they got in Jalen Redmond from last year carried over. And just the other day, I was talking to Jonathan Grenard about Jalen Redmond. And he said that last year there was a feeling that there was something there,

that he thought that there was, he was a dog. And then it's just grown and developed through this year. And Redmond has now put himself in position to be able. big time player for this team, but there is one area that I think is reasonable to bring up as a concern with this trade. And again, if it plays into it that getting the cap space and getting the sixth rounder leads you to a wide receiver, then I understand it a little bit more. Where can you take from to add to a really big position of need? Well, I would have said defensive line is the place that you could most take from because there was incredible depth at that.

position. But if there's one area where I would have a fairly serious concern about moving on from Harrison Phillips, that is in run defense. Now, I know, you know, you can look up his PFF grades and I don't think that they're mind blowing over the last couple of years. And I've always thought that that was just because they were leaning on him way too much. And some of that is because Flores' defense is just a little different. So you have guys moving gaps and what what he called in explaining it to me jumping gaps. So maybe you're starting out on one side and then you're going not straight up the field. You're going left and right to try to move alignment to create a gap for a linebacker and all

that sort of stuff. But that is his strength is he is more of a run stuffing defensive tackle. And to take that away for two guys who are on the older side, Alan Hargrave, to have to handle a lot when it comes to that run defense. And then two other players who are less experienced in Jalen Redmond and Levi Drake Rodriguez and asking those guys to stuff gaps and asking those guys to shoot into the backfield and hold very strong NFL offensive linemen in place for linebackers to shoot gaps. It might be a big ask. And this has been already a question of mine of whether by going after the pass rushers that they have sacrificed something in terms of the run defense, which look who they're playing

throughout this season. You know, you start off week two is Bejohn Robinson and then you get into the Philadelphia Eagles. You know that the Chargers are going to run. You know, Lamar Jackson. There's a lot of different teams that are very good in terms of running the football. Does this sacrifice hurt their ability to stop the run? That's something that is definitely on my mind right now. But when it comes to, when it comes to the Thielen part of this, because if that, if that is part of the trade, there's going to be a lot of arguing and a lot of debating over it. But here's the way that I would put it when it comes to that. The way I would put it when it comes to Adam Thielen is that if there was another receiver who had his resume's recent resume, but you didn't know him as well, I think there'd be a lot of celebrating getting someone that good.

If that happens and if this trade is related to that, it possibly could be my understanding is that's realistic. That's the way I would put it to you is that the Adam Thielen back to Minnesota thing is possible and it's realistic. And it's something that I think that they're very seriously looking into and considering. That's just my understanding of where that situation is. I also don't think the Vikings are going to trade something like a fourth rounder or a third rounder for Adam Thelan. I think that they're much more willing to swap a third and a fourth or much more willing to say here is a couple of sixth round draft picks and, you know, sort of take it or leave it because, you know, it is Adam Thielen. It's somebody that is on the older side and it looks like is going to lose out to a couple younger receivers and what else are they going to do with them?

They could keep him. The Carolina Panthers could, but then eventually they'll probably look to trade him down the road anyway. at some point in the season if he's not getting a lot of targets. You might as well, if you're Carolina, do it now if you feel better about your younger wide receivers. And I'm sure there's going to be a lot of, well, Thelan's cooked. Thelan is, look, Thelan has caught more than 75% of his passes that have been thrown his way over the last two years.

He has 151 catches. Last year, he graded in the 30s by PFF among all wide receivers. He's been pretty, I have to look at my phone every time. time it flashes now, by the way. He's been solid as a possession wide receiver. And right now where the Vikings stand at their wide receiver spot is there's nobody remotely close to even holding down that type of role where you could trust the guy and you could know that he was going to catch the football. I mean, when you compare it, you're talking about Lucky Jackson and Thayer Thomas. That was on the first team today for the Vikings.

they did their scrimmage. It's Thayer Thomas. I mean, geez, it's like this is somebody who I've liked in training camp, but not anyone who has ever, you know, played in the NFL before. And the same goes for Lucky Jackson. And if you're talking about giving up a couple of sixth round draft picks to get a player like that or a swap of a third and a fourth to get someone who's been around for this long with that kind of experience, hands, and you know what, if he averages nine yards a catch and he's there for J.J. McCarthy, well, then that's great in my mind. But maybe I'll save that for the emergency podcast if and when that move comes along. But in terms of Harrison Phillips, I think there's

a lot of shock of what is going on right now with this trade that I don't think a lot of us had that in any of our notebooks. Like, hey, they could get rid of Harrison Phillips. He had taken all of the first team reps really until the joint practices. And I noticed that he wasn't out there today, but I just thought, well, veteran day because Andrew Van Ginkle also wasn't practicing. He's been out for a bit. Blake Cashman wasn't practicing. Harrison Smith is still dealing with something. So I just didn't think a whole lot of it. This is a team that takes a lot of those types of days for their veteran players. And then all of a sudden, you know, here he is as a New York jet. So in my mind, the way I want to whittle this all the way down,

is that let's just sort of try to make it into like key, key reaction points because in an emergency podcast, one of the great parts of it is that I just yell everything I think right away. So let's like slow it down, slow down the offense, huddle up here, and key points. Number one is that if they moved on from Harrison Phillips, they must feel very strongly about the development that they have been able to have in this camp. for the backup players, including Elijah Williams, who has suddenly just become a dude for this team, who has really thrived in training camp and especially in the preseason, but I think it

applies more to Jalen Redmond and Levi Drake Rodriguez. These are both guys who are underdog type of players, but have strength. I think of Levi as being a guy who can hold gaps much better, who can overpower offensive linemen, whereas Redmond is quick. He's always in the backfield. He's been causing the offensive line a ton of problems during this training camp. So if you feel great about players who are going to be here and are more spry and don't have as much mileage on their body as rotational guys, if you feel better about them than Harrison Phillips and where he's at with his career, well, then it makes a lot of sense. It also could be that Hargrave and Allen, who have both been absolutely phenomenal in this training camp, played so well, including against the run in camp, that they decided, I mean, when are we going

to put Phillips on the field? If he's going to get 300 snaps this year, now there's the injury risk. And I agree with that. If that's what you're saying in your head, and we'll get to the risks. But if they're of analysis of the situation was, these guys need to be on the field all the time, these two key star defensive tackles. And they can handle this. And this is going to make our front four ridiculous and et cetera, et cetera. When is Harrison Phillips going to play? We don't really know. We don't have a good role for him. If they proved

it in the joint practice that they could stop the run. I mean, Hargrave has just been a monster all around. So okay, all right. Well, then you're not going to play Harrison Phillips as much. And then the other part of it is if you want to rotate guys in, then rotate the guys in

who are going to be here long term, like Redmond and like Levi Drake Rodriguez. That the upside is that you have now younger players behind the older players that can take snaps off them and also are maybe on the rise and have had really good training camps. And then there's other guys who are still developing and you're confident in the rotation that if one of those guys got hurt, that Redmond can take over for either role and play a significant amount of snaps, and that's a good position to be in, to be confident enough

in your depth that's all young players that you're saying, we're okay with moving on. That's really something. Point number two is that if they are robbing Peter to pay Paul, which means taking from one position in order to get something to get a wide receiver, if they need one more draft pick to convince the Panthers. And I keep going back to the feeling thing because I think it could happen, but anybody, any wide receiver that they could be on the phone with,

that they might have to, or any, team from any wide receiver that they could be trying to get and they need some more draft capital because Quasi always spends his late round draft capital on players. That part of it is a little bit harder to swallow because that's okay, but you're taking a proven player who's been very good in his career off of your team to try to add, but let's get down to the depth though. You can survive losing Harrison Phillips, whereas trying to survive this wide receiver situation is going to be hard. And this might also say, now, if I tell you Jalen Naylor is going to be a serious injury

and he's going to be out for a while, then it might change your viewpoint on that, which I think those two things may be connected. I don't want to get too into the medical situations, but if Jalen Naylor is hurt for some sort of amount of time, then you need a wide receiver. You can't just want a wide receiver because then you're talking. about asking somebody like lucky jackson to be wide receiver two and that's just too much wide receiver three you can rotate in and out you can use josh oliver get cj ham out there something okay but if you were talking about for several weeks if nailer is seriously injured if you're talking about having to

ask these undrafted free agent former xFL or whatever to be a starting number two wide receiver and say, JJ, go get him, just throw to, just throw to Jefferson every time you'll be fine. Well, I would, I would do the robbing of the Peter to pay the Paul for that. I would do the, uh, taking away from a very, very deep defensive tackle room to add to a really, really important wide receiver room, really important to the success of your young quarterback. So that's kind of point number two. And point number three is that the reason it's,

surprising is because Phillips has been a good player for this team. He's been a captain for this team. He has been a leader up front, a communicator, somebody who is getting the guys lined up correctly and who is setting the defense. And I think it was Jonathan Allen who said to me, I asked him a few weeks ago like, hey, what's it been like working with Harrison Phillips? And he said it's been really vital for him to understand the defense. And maybe this means that Jonathan Allen is now the guy who gets the D-Line set up, or Javon Hargrave is now the guy who gets the D-Line set up. But you're losing something in your captain. This is also someone who is just great.

Community-wise, like that matters as well, like a really, a really sound human being that you're moving on from to the New York Jets, and you're not getting a ton back. It's not like they gave you a fourth or a third. They gave you a sixth and a couple of swaps. it's not ideal and where I would be the most concerned about it is whether they can stop the run in the same way. They're going to start out the season against Chicago. That team's not going to be great at running the football.

But then, and they do have a better offensive line for running, and they do have a good coach for running. So I shouldn't assume that. DeAndre Swift has smoked them before. But then, you know, when they see Atlanta, that's going to be a really big test. So they are sacrificing something unless they feel like. Jalen Redmond can be every bit as what Harrison Phillips has been over the last couple years. And let me get you those. And look, I want to recognize just before I say these numbers

that it's not always entirely fair that, you know, PFF grades are not every single thing in the world. No one knows that better than me. My book's right over here that I wrote about PFF. But if we're going in part by the grades, Harrison Phillips has not graded great for the Vikings over the last two years. 59.7, 58.8. That's, that's an average type of player at that position. And if we go to what Jalen Redmond did last year in a pretty good sample size, 77.2 grade in 200 snaps last year for Jalen Redmond. So, you know, he has been really, really good since he came into the league. And the other part of it, too, is that Brian Flores and this organization has just absolutely loved Levi Drake Rodriguez from day one.

I mean, I remember what we talked with, I think it was Ryan Grigsen on draft day, and he was like giddy about getting Levi Drake as their seventh round draft pick. And, you know, naturally as skeptical reporters do, we were kind of like, okay, Texas A&M Commerce. I mean, all right, maybe the next John Randall, I don't know, but is this really going to be something

that can come to fruition with somebody this far? buried in college football that you guys happen to find and, hey, it's a great story that you found them and all that. But then, and last year, it was, that's what it was. It was just kind of a great story that he was on the team from Texas A&M Commerce. But this year, there has been another step. And we saw a little flashes in training camp last year. He got into the game against Seattle, but the minute he showed up at training camp, it was, oh, Levi Drake Rodriguez is here to play. So they must believe that those two guys can be sound and solid depth along with Ingram Dawkins, who I think has had a really good training camp. So it makes, it makes sense on a

lot of levels. I just think they wouldn't do it. Or I thought they wouldn't do it. This, this was mentioned to me only casually in texts with myself and Drew McGarry, who will text me random Vikings things. And he was talking about, you know, is there any surprise cut and whatever else? And he's the one that brought up Harrison Phillips and I was like I don't know man I think my response was like don't they need them though don't they need them though like I could see it but don't they need them though and I guess they didn't so there you go the Vikings trade Harrison Phillips to the New York Jets and trying to pick apart like what this means exactly like what wide receiver they could use this draft capital and this cap space for if it's not Adam Thielen is a very very

good question. I don't know the answer to that if there's other, what other wide receivers might be out there? Is there some bigger move? It didn't create that much cap space, but all a sudden it's sort of like, well, dare to dream because they are apparently serious about creating the cap space and getting the draft capital together in order to acquire somebody a wide receiver. And you know, you could go a couple ways with this because we have seen things like this in the past. So the first move that pops into my head for big surprises throughout training camp, because I think this qualifies, like five years from now, when you guys ask me,

what's your biggest surprise moves that have ever happened in camp? Like, this is going in there for sure. But it reminds me a little bit, and we'll, I don't think the impact is the same, but just of when the Vikings moved on from Brian Robeson. And the other time that surprised me was when they cut Alex Bolson. Boone years ago. And those are a little bit different stories, but they kind of have some of the same threads where they cut Alex Boone because they felt really good about Nick Easton. And Nick Easton in 2017 turned out to be a big part of that team. He didn't have a long

career in the NFL because he had some injuries, but he turned out to be an important part of that team. And I wonder if they feel similarly here. Like what they've gotten out of Harrison Phillips over the years has been pretty sound and this is this is where it just it really must have to do with the backups because they just extended him last year they just gave him a contract extension and he looked like a very rock solid piece of the foundation going forward and then all the sudden you know somebody else comes up and makes you redundant i guess or maybe you know it could also be just the style that they want to play What you have to give credit for to Brian Flores is that he's always reinventing himself.

He's always looking at his defense and saying, not here's how I've always done it. This is my system. This is my scheme. Like you figure it out. You learn it. No. He's always been like, what do I have today? And how do I take these pieces and make this fit?

And I guess his answer is by putting Hargrave and Allen as, as the two defensive tackles, playing them both at three technique and not having a nose tackle. I'll throw out another guy that this could have to deal with. And this would surprise me if this is true. But I want to make sure I say everything. So I don't go on all of this, you know, way and then never mention this. But early in training camp, we didn't see a lot of Taki Tiamani. And he was somebody that they really liked last year.

talki is a fire hydrant type of player he's kind of the same size as harrison phillips but he's like three inches shorter so he's just really wide really powerful and early in camp it just seemed like is he on the third team is he ever going to play is he ever going to get mixed in here like what happened to takitai mahony he was such a fun guy to say his name and watch him play and then just recently. So the last preseason game, Taki was really good. And he made some plays and he stuffed some dudes and he looked like a legit nose tackle. And he was rotating in a little bit today. So I've made a lot of this about Jalen Redmond, but it could also be that Taki Tiamani has forced their hand or has proven to them that he can also be another run stuffer. And I have noticed at times

that when they do the drills down in the red zone, that he is down there with, the first team sometimes as part of the bigger package. So they might just feel like we've got a little bit of everything for everything. I mentioned Elijah Williams. They could still cut him and get him to the practice squad and have Taki end up being this nose tackle type player. He's really the only guy that fits that true nose tackle mold. But if they looked at, so I just wanted to make sure I got that out there.

Like, hey, that's, I don't want to forget Taki because he's had a late camp surge. and it's looked like he has been somebody that's made a lot of progress throughout camp as most of the veteran or as most of the younger defensive linemen have behind the veterans Hargrave and Allen. But just going back to the point is that sometimes these things change schematically. And that was why I made the Alex Boone comparison is Alex Boone made his bones in San Francisco as a just a road grader like gap scheme tycho big beast pushing people right and what the Vikings wanted to do that year because they drafted Delvin Cook was they wanted to go to an outside

zone system where it required more mobility for the offensive linemen and that might be the same thing here where when you sign Hargrave and Allen that you start cooking up well how are we going to play in more of a 4-3 type of look. Well, are we going to have those guys at defensive end? Are they going to play like a 3-4-style defensive end? Or are they going to play in the places that they have played previously? And I know that this sounds a little bit like, wait a minute, top-five defense last year, and now you're morphing to playing more of a 4-3, now you're morphing to a totally different

look from three-run stuffers in the middle to now to, you know, penetrating, get in the backfield. But that's Flores. That's just what he does. He is not a guy that's going to go into a season and let other teams figure him out from the year before. That's not, that's not what he's going to do. So I want to throw that out there as well, that schematics might have played a role in this Harrison Phillips trade as well. And it seems like the Jets were desperate for this position. And so they end up giving up a sixth round pick for Harrison Phillips. A very surprising trade overall at the end of the day because Phillips has been a big part of this team. But if we evaluated on paper, they get cap space, they get draft capital, and the

underlying numbers do not suggest this is an irreplaceable player. That's, that's what I would say about Phillips is as much as I have immense respect for him. I had great conversations with him over the last couple years. He, I think, was a better fit in the 2022 defense. He performed form better in 22 than he was in the last two years, but still a pretty solid player. But at the end of the day, if we're doing kind of an on-paper brass tacks down to the screws kind of analysis of this move, it's surprising because he's a captain. It's surprising because they don't have proven true run stuffers. But it's not terribly surprising when you add up the price versus what the PFF grades are,

what the tackle numbers, what the pressure numbers are. And I think what Brian Flores really wanted to change. And I'm sure Kevin O'Connell really wanted to change after watching the Philadelphia Eagles. Think about the Eagles. And we always have to do this, you know, compared to the Super Bowl team. But think about the Eagles and who they had out there mostly. They drafted Jordan Davis and everybody loved Jordan Davis so much. Oh, this guy, you know, he's so large and he's, you know, so great and he's so athletic.

And that guy doesn't play a lot for the Eagles. And I've heard for three straight camps now that Davis is about to take that big next step. But I mean, he hasn't become a key player for them. Who was it that became the key players, the guys who got in the backfield? The guys who were the penetrators, Milton Williams, gets $26 million a year or something because he could get after the quarterback. And that may have been some of the inspiration because I also think that, you know, Jaylon Redmond's got that in his bag. and Ingram Dawkins may develop that from his bag at some point. And we've seen a little of it from Levi Drake Rodriguez as well.

So I think, you know, Phillips, his time here, he was at really the centerpiece of, or one of the centerpieces of last year's defense and turning this entire thing around from just a couple years ago where it's one of the worst defenses in the NFL. But things move forward and there's always somebody else coming behind you. and now he is a New York jet. So it will be fascinating when we arrive in week one

because I now have, I have a list of questions now. And, you know, we just talked to Flores the other day. Darn. So now they're going to, well, we'll hear from next week. We will hear from Quasi Dauphalmenza, Kevin O'Connell, about this trade and everything else with the roster. But one of the biggest questions I have now is how many snaps do you want from Javon Hargrave and Jonathan Allen?

That's my question. How many snaps do you want from Jonathan Allen and Javon Hargrave? I mean, is it, is it 750? Because I had it around 600, but now I won't. The other question then is, well, how many snaps do you want from Jalen Redmond? He had 200 last year as a rotational player, part time in the middle of the season kind of emerged. Let me look at what I'm curious. actually what Redmond was doing last year for snap counts.

So in his best, one of his best games at the end of last season was against Atlanta, he played 39 snaps. And at the end of the season, 39, 28, 21, and 26 for Redmond. So he was a guy that they were playing 20 to 30 snaps a game. I guess I would expect that that's going to happen again. So if you have Redmond playing 20 to 30 snaps a game, maybe Rodriguez, maybe Tyamani mixing in there at different roles, 10 snaps a game, it maybe works out to as a deep rotational player. And then it's 40 a game for Hargrave and Allen, 45 a game for those guys. It's still a lot.

Still a lot of workload. There's a little risk involved here, I think. There's some bets that are being made. Now, in the past, there's been some bets that I would have said are probably not the best to make. Let's just say, for example, when the Vikings didn't add to this room and they relied on Shemar Stefan, or when they went out and got Sheldon Richardson three years after he had been good with the Vikings and he had bounced around and wasn't the same player, those were probably not great bets. but when it comes to

Brian Flores and his gambles on defensive players, you know, they made a bet moving on from DeNeal Hunter. Think about that. We just take that for granted now. Like, oh yeah, they moved on from Hunter, they got Granard, he's a superstar, whatever. But like, what? They moved on from

Daniel Hunter. They moved on from Kendricks. They moved, I mean, there's been multiple players who have been really good that they've said, all right, now is the time. And we also don't know, you know, there any health situation or is there any other elements to it? Was he not happy with his role or you know, whatever else it might be that might play behind the scenes. Harrison Phillips isn't a guy

that's going to come out and say, yeah, I was really unhappy and I thought, you know, it was better that they should trade me because they weren't going to play me with those guys. I mean, I don't think that that was the case. It seems like they're just making a bet here that the rising players are going to fit better than somebody who they have a huge sample size with over the last couple years. But it does, it comes along with questions. It comes along with some risk. And if they struggle to stop the run, we probably will go back to this and say, you moved on from that guy. And then the other part of it, too, that I've been talking so much about the D-lined and how this shapes out that, you know, I only kind of briefly touched on the

Adam Thieland part of it is that getting the draft capital, if that puts them over the edge, then this is a player that you can definitely move on from. Run stuffing defensive tackles, probably the most replaceable thing in the league. I'm not saying Harrison Phillips was because he was exceptional and intelligent and all those things, a captain, all that stuff. That's all very meaningful. But last year, they got a lot out of Jonathan Bullard, who was a $2 million player. So it's not crazy to think that they believe they can cobble together this role with a

couple other guys if another draft pick gets them over the finish line for a wide receiver because it's very hard to cobble together a wide receiver room. That's not something that you can just do. And we're seeing that now. We're seeing, you know, Rondale Moore going down. So then there's your proven wide receiver who is your veteran. and even today, Jordan Addison at the end of practice got a little banged up. I got to take a deep breath and tell you about practice today at some point.

And then I have a conversation with Alec Lewis of the Athletic. We sat down for 40 minutes or so after practice and, of course, you know, recorded right before this trade, but we graded every single position throughout training camp right after the final practice. So why don't I tell you, the bottom line is. Yes, it's surprising. I get it. And what's next might determine how we feel about it and how they stop the run will definitely

determine how we feel about it. That's sort of bottom line. But if they're going after Thielen, like I think that they're at least thinking about and making phone calls on, I'm for it. I'm just, I've said that before. I'll say it again. It's hard to find at this time of year. Think about the receivers the Vikings have gotten at this time of year.

if you're the person who's like, dude's cooked. Like, okay, all right. Well, I guess, I mean, first of all, I guess you haven't looked at his production for the last two years. But second of all,

think about those receivers. Put them in your brain. Spin them around a little bit. Josh Doxon. Aldrich Robinson is the best version of this. I mean, even when they brought Michael Floyd in, and he came back kind of in the middle of the season, that wasn't an impact type of player.

It's really difficult to find somebody who's going to impact your team positively at this point. And this just so happens to be a unique situation with Thielen and a young team in Carolina that has three young wide receivers that they want to get the ball to, they want to evaluate, they want to figure out what they have in the future. Adam Thelan's not a part of their future. He's in the last year of his contract. And maybe this also helps them with, what, about $4 million of cap space, something like that, to just mitigate some of that effect. And I've, seen different numbers people thrown out between five and seven million that the Vikings would have to take on it's not a lot for a wide receiver who would have to play a significant role it's

not a lot so i would at very least just i wouldn't say get out your thieland jersey and put it on what i would say is know where it is because you might need it we'll see about adam thieland so who i didn't you know oh look at this look at this this actually might Look at this. Increase the chances that Adam Thielen becomes a Minnesota Viking because the chiefs just traded Skymore to San Francisco. San Francisco is one of the teams that I believe to be interested in Adam Thielen. And look, I didn't even bring Diet Dr. Pepper today. Diet Coke was on sale.

And until Diet Dr. Pepper sponsors the show, it's whatever's on sale. Let me get into practice. It was a very eventful practice. I was excited, man. I was up there. I was like cutting up sound from J.J. McCarthy. I was writing all my little notes down from practice. And then I'm like, okay, well, that just blew up.

So it's been fun to talk about it. I like trades. Today at practice, they had a scrimmage. And J.J. McCarthy threw from what I counted 33 passes. Maybe Judd counted 34. I don't know. I was trying to do my. Judd impression today. And I came up with 26 completions for J.J. McCarthy. He got a ton of work.

He has simulated real work a lot over the last, you know, two weeks here, having done it against the Patriots and then today with a very intense day for McCarthy. My biggest takeaway was, once again, he was under a lot of pressure. And I thought he dealt with it well. But what we're talking about with a J.J. McCarthy practice is just so different. than somebody like Sam Darnold, it reminded me a lot more of a Kirk type of practice where he wasn't ripping bombs 50 yards down the field. He didn't have time in the pocket to do that.

Maybe if there's one worry about this D-line being so good, it's that J.J. McCarthy just didn't throw a lot of deep passes during training camp, that he has not had a lot of practice at throwing actual bombs 40, 50 yards down the field, but had a number of intermediate completions, his connection with Jordan Addison has been fantastic. A couple of the highlight plays from today. He had a good red zone period,

which he sort of shook off the early red zone issues. And he hit Addison in the back of the end zone in kind of a mossing situation. He found Lucky Jackson, who had a bounceback day in the back of the end zone for a touchdown. And there were a couple more really good throws. At the end of practice, he dropped one in the bucket to Aaron Jones, who was streaking down the sideline, up over the,

the shoulder dropped it in, might have been a sack, but still, nonetheless, it was a great throw on the move. He had one to Josh Oliver, where he was rolling out full speed, got him over the middle, and then there was just a lot of eight-yard completion, 10-yard completion. This may be a different identity for the Vikings. After today, I did think it's probably a different identity. It probably is going to look more like San Francisco with Brock Purdy, where you are never saying, whoa, Brock Purdy, let a bomb go 57 yards downfield.

But you're saying completion, completion, handoff, hand off, hand off, tight end, tight end. And then here's your one 25 yard chunk play. It really looked, it looked like a San Francisco type of offense where it just didn't, like, wow, holy cow, they're doing crazy downfield stuff. It was much more across the middle underneath, whoever's open. and I thought he made really good decisions with the football today during this practice, but that was just the biggest thing to me is that he completed a lot of passes.

At some, at one point, it was 17 for 21, I think. So he completed a lot of passes. And also, you're going to hear Alec Lewis and I talk about this. The screen games looked great. This is the first time I've said that since 2019. I really think that Kevin O'Connell went in to this offseason with a very deliberate plan. with the run, because the run has looked like it's actually got an identity that they're doing a lot more of outside zone stuff with Jordan Mason, and the screen has looked like it could be

a very serious weapon for this team. So they were working on that a lot. And there were a few passes that were inaccurate. You know, there was one to T.J. Hawkinson's little out route just completely missed him. But overall, I mean, if we were doing an accuracy percentage, I think he was on point 75, 80% of the time. And then the clip that I was working, on cutting up from McCarthy, he was asked about his confidence. And he said that it's the highest it's ever been in this offense. And I know he's always a confident guy and all that. But he's looked that way. He's looked confident in the last couple of practices. I thought he looked confident today. There's some frustrating moments of the pressure coming. And I think he took, you know,

four sacks or so. But overall looks confident in where the football is supposed to go. And his accuracy has been getting better and better throughout training camp. It really seems to have turned a corner over the last few days. And I think he's ready to go. I don't think it was a flawless camp or that McCarthy, that I'm more confident in him being a megastar than I've ever been or anything like that. But he has certainly looked on the same level of starting quarterback as a Darnold, just different, or as a Kirk from years past.

And I will just point out, though, if there, because I have. haven't seen anybody else's critique of practice. I thought it was good. I mean, I was over there standing there going completion, completion, completion. They're moving the ball. They were going up and down the field. Like, they didn't have to punt too many times, didn't have too many drives to stall out. And, but I was reminded of in 2022 that Kirk Cousins, I think, in this same scrimmage

atmosphere through five picks. So it doesn't, and he had a good season and they won 13 games. So it doesn't always correlate 100%. when it comes to something like that. But it was a good overall end to a very solid training camp for J.J. McCarthy. And now it's on the front office to find him receiver help. I saw in the comments, you know, Romeo Dobbs is being mentioned. I mean, you're at the point where now Sky Moore is off the table.

He's a San Francisco 49er. Now you're at the point where it could be any moment now. is this seems like there's a lot of movement as got as teams around the league look for guys that might be cut and his cut down day arrives that teams are making phone calls hey our camp is over we've made our decisions and we're probably going to cut this guy to you want to trade for him and uh i think that if guise edoffelments is not in his office all evening making phone calls about the receiver situation i would be surprised so it's not unreasonable to think that i could end up emergency podcasting again later on this evening. So other notes from today's camp.

So this is, I almost feel like the sample sizes on the punt returns and kick return situation are so small that it almost feels silly to mention, but I have to because it was brought up by Matt Daniels that Miles Price dropped one in practice today, that there was a punt kind of out of the back of the end zone and he went up to get it and it ends up hitting the ground. that, I think, is what is going to prevent Miles Price from being the punt returner because I was watching Miles Bolden and he was catching everything very smoothly. I'm sorry, Silas Bolden, Miles Price, Silas Bolden. Silas Bolden was catching everything very smoothly and he just has a really natural ball tracking

and, you know, it comes in smoothly, kind of Marcus Sherrill style. So that might play into it because they've been concerned and mentioned a couple times about the catching of the punt. That could be another position where they look for somebody else on cut down day or in a trade is somebody that can also reel in a punt. I also think that I wouldn't count out

if they can't get a deal done with Carolina. But now that San Francisco's off the table, Carolina might be in a position where they're like, well, if we're going to move dealing, we better do it now. Rather than at the trade deadline, and if San Francisco's not doing that deal, that all it also might tell you that San Francisco was not willing to pay the price for Carolina Carolina

might be sitting there trying to get you know whatever that last year they got who did they got Jonathan Mingle for a fourth so they might be sitting there thinking we should get a fourth for Adam Thielen I don't know I don't think the Vikings would quite go that high I think if they had to maybe but I think that's probably too much that's like a bridge too far so I guess you know sorry I got off track there thinking about punt returners and acquisitions and things like that, but that does make me wonder if now Carolina has to call back the Vikings and say, yeah, so about those offers for Thielen, we'll take a couple of sixth, and that will be fine. So we'll see how that plays out.

But just going back to practice today, Ty Felton got banged up today. Early in practice, he went down, came off holding his arm, and then didn't come back. That's pretty concerning because Felton needs more. work as a kick returner. So now what do you do? If he's at all, now he didn't go back to the trainer's room. So it might just be Nixon cuts, but he needs to play. And he needs to be out there getting more returns because this is not a guy who's done a lot of it in his career. So if, if he is out for the game, then are you confident enough to do it? Or do you have to keep Ty Chandler, who was taking second team reps today as the first running back out there, not convinced that they're

cutting Chandler that's cut up a come up a bunch of times if you're wondering how Sam Howell did I didn't think it was great there were a couple good plays he threw an interception where the ball came out too soon the running back wasn't looking bounced off his helmet it wasn't a great practice for him and we didn't see any of Ripin or Brosmer because those guys are going to play in the game I will be very curious to see if they play Sam Howell if they want to get a final look at him or if he is not going to play at all and if that decision is been made. There was some good news though, and I'm remembering the notes off the top of the head because I was writing them as I saw this news about Harrison Phillips. Christian Derisaw was out there

a ton today in this scrimmage environment. And I don't know if that's a lock that he's going to be there for week one because of this, but him getting into the joint practices, him playing today a lot. He didn't do every single rep, but it was a lot of the reps. And then a lot of the reps, little bit of just in school. That makes you think that Derisaw is very close to coming back. Also notice that Kalef Halasi was getting a lot of reps today instead of Jay Ward, which also could mean that there's some chance. I know that after he had the two interceptions that a lot of you asked, like, is he a roster

guy in my eyes? Like, I don't know. I don't think so. That, I mean, it looks a little more possible today as he was playing more safety out there with the first team defense, which was kind of a bit of a mash unit with some guys out. But still nonetheless, like an intriguing little note. So things going on there practice. Also, Jeff Okuda walked off with what looked like something with the lower body.

So now I'm also thinking about the cornerback position. Like, could that be something they look into? Oh, and just circling back to the, um, the punt returner situation as I just sort of whip notes at you. I still think that Brandon Powell, I mean, if they, if they traded for Thielen and signed Brandon Powell, that's probably enough for me. But that they might have to be in that, in that market as well. I don't know, like, what's Brandon Powell been doing?

Is he prepared to play in the NFL this year or, or not? Or is there somebody else in the free agent market? Because, you know, when we look at the free agent wide receivers, there's not a whole lot to love there in the free agent wide receiver market. Powell is the one that by far makes the most sense if they're not going to make the Adam Thielen trade. So that's practice. That's training camp.

A big trade. And I am a little nervous to bring you my interview with Adam, or with, I almost said, I'm dealing. He's been on the show before, Alec Lewis. I'm a little nervous to bring you the Alec Lewis conversation because it's just, you know, could get breaking news at any time. but I'm going to take a shot at that. And if there is breaking news, I'll break in to the discussion with Alec Lewis.

So after practice today, Alec and I got together inside TCL Performance Center, had a really good discussion where I graded every position group. And nothing changes with the way we talked about it with the Harrison Phillips trade. So it's all still relevant. We graded McCarthy. We graded the backfield offensive line all through the defense special team. teams. We talked everything. Alec Lewis and I today at TCO Performance Center. So here is that conversation. Welcome into TCO Performance Center. Matthew Collar here with Alec Lewis of the

Athletic and the Alec Lewis Show podcast as well. And we just walked off the practice field after seeing the scrimmage by the Minnesota Vikings where J.J. McCarthy threw something like 33 passes today. They got a lot of hard work in. But now training camp is over. So we are going to grade position by position how everybody did during the accumulation of all of training camp and preseason minus the third preseason game coming up this Friday. Or actually, the way we're going to do it is I'm going to give my grade. Thank you. Alec is going to criticize my grade or agree with it.

We're going to find out. So much more comfortable. First of all, thanks for having me. Yeah, it's much more comfortable for me to be able to not. I can just be in my comfort analyzing and shooting people down. That's kind of how it goes. Yeah, that's a great way to do it. And I can turn up the heat a little bit on some of these grades and see where you stand.

So why don't we just begin with the most obvious place, which is the punting competition, Oscar Chapman, Ryan Wright. Okay, J.J. McCarthy, I am going to give him a B plus grade for this entire training camp in preseason. I don't think it was flawless. I don't think he made me walk out of here thinking that the Minnesota Vikings have the next John Elway on their team just yet. But also, nothing that he did made me think, oh my gosh, this won't work. There were a lot of really good days. The joint practices, which I weighed the heaviest in this, were really, really good, especially the second day. And that was against the real team who the Boston media walked out of here concerned about their defense.

McCarthy was so good that day. I think he can lead a double-digit winning team. I think he can lead a top 10 to 15 offense that can be good enough to give them a chance to win after watching all of this. But I can't say that it was flawless. I can't say there weren't ups and downs there were. And I also can't say I have no concerns whatsoever about the season. So B plus it is for me for J.J. McCarthy for his training camp.

Yeah, it's a smidge high for me. I understand there's a lot of caveats to this. The first would be he didn't have Justin Jefferson at all. Christian Darrasaw barely mixed in. The defense and Brian Flores and defensive staff and the play, I mean, it was just relentless pressure at all times. Jonathan Gernard had 79,000 sacks throughout the course of this training camp. So it's tough to evaluate from that standpoint.

And then you're right to say that the joint practices should be weighed heaviest. That's what Kevin O'Connell factors most in the training camp kind of process and has since he got here. and the Thursday practice of joint practices was J.D. McCarthy's best in the entire camp. But I'd say for me, it's just a lot of up and down. There were good days. There were not as good days. I didn't think there was like a list of like unbelievable throws. I didn't also think there were, there was a laundry list of terrible throws over the middle of the field. Like the processing seemed to be there at times. The accuracy seemed to be there at times. behind the scenes you talk to people like he was relentless and trying to be as good as he can be and and just kind of endless questions about what he could do better which is all stuff you want to hear but i just um i i there's just enough of like the inaccuracy at times the you know he's going up against the threes and it doesn't look that crisp at time like there's some of that that um i just want to see it in real time and i'm i'm all i'm i'm all i will say this too.

like as I've gotten through this training camp, this is my second or third, maybe third full training camp, the less I just put on anything that I'm seeing just because I think about last year and I think about years past. And that's not this. It's not great for a podcast. It's not for analysis every day at the athletic. I just, again, I want to see it in real time with the bullets flying and the past rich humming and just didn't get to see a ton of it. The one area that I would degree was there was a lack of holy bleep throws, but also when we saw those holy bleep throws last year from Sam Darnold, who was it that they were generally headed in the direction? I'm trying to think it was this, oh yeah, that's right, Justin Jefferson.

And the fact that I was also in my grade factoring for, I don't think the offensive line was 100%. They didn't have fries early at a full go and then, of course, not Darisaw. Poor Justin's school. If he wants to keep playing football after this, good for him. him, but Jonathan Grinard just wrecked him on a day-to-day basis, and now it looks like Darisaw is on his way back, and we'll probably maybe start week one, but I mean, just in school was, I think, problematic for J.J. McCarthy because he was under pressure so many times that it was hard to judge. Like, could he have gone deep on that ball if he had more time to throw? Right.

And when he did have more time to throw, because the offensive line had a great second day of joint practice, that's where the intermediate stuff came alive. We haven't really. We haven't really seen a lot of shots, a lot of, hey, pushing it down the field 40, 50, 60 yards like we did with Sam Darnold. But also I think J.J. McCarthy's going to play a different brand of football. We just- Exactly right. We just watched this scrimmage where he completed a ton of passes that were 10 to 15 yards and moved the sticks and moved the sticks. But it wasn't a lot of drop back, let it loose, rip it 100 yards down the field. And I don't know what I'm supposed to think of that because those throws usually go to Justin Jefferson. Yeah. No. And I mean,

you said the thing that I think strongly about is I just think it's a different style. It's Kevin O'Connell and this offensive staff adapting to the strengths of the guy throwing the football. Like Sam Darnold, I mean, the arm is ridiculous. I mean, there's no question about it. He proved that time and time again. But from a processing ability thrown over to the middle of the field, how comfortable really are you? Whereas with Jason McCarthy, I do think there's a level of processing there, plus just the flamethrower ability over the middle that he proves time and time again. And I'll say this. Like, you're great and whatever. Like, I had this conversation with Robert Mays in this very room the other day. He asked me, so is the quarterback going to be good?

And my response was, how good does the quarterback actually have to be with everything around him? And so, and we'll get into receiver depth and all this stuff. But I think to come out of this feeling if it's a smidge lower than a B plus, totally fine. with the way they constructed this roster. Okay, so I think that you would agree, though, that they come out of this feeling like they can win games with J.J. McCarthy. He can manage the pocket. He can get the ball to Hawkinson.

And then we're just going to have to find out what happens with Justin Jefferson. And to me, as long as they came out feeling that way and not feeling a sense of dread or terror, it was always going to be a fairly high grade because everything else is going to have to happen when the actual game plans are in. And by the way, also factoring, it's a great defense. And we'll get to those grades momentarily.

The backfield for me, I thought, specifically Jordan Mason made a really strong impression on me throughout this training camp. I didn't know a lot about him other than he left some dents in the Vikings last year when he played against him with San Francisco. But holy cow, was I impressed by him. And Xavier Scott emerged. And I don't think it was a bad camp for Ty Chandler. We've all kind of pointed out the Thai Chandler thing. but I want to give the backfield as a whole, Aaron Jones, healthy and has caught some really nice passes. I'm glad you said it.

I mean, I think it's been an A for the backfield. Yeah, I've got a fantasy draft tonight. And this group of players is on my, in my crosshairs is what I would say. I'm with you with Jordan Mason, absolutely. And I mean, I'll never forget. We're sitting up there in the press box at US Bank Stadium last year. They're like Christian McCaffrey is not going to play. Jordan Mason is thrust in.

And the way he would find holes in terms of cutbacks, like he is this big body, no doubt, but his ability to just see it and make decisions behind the line of scrimmage just blows me away. And so that's where even in short yard is, that's critical because the space shrinks and your decision making is even more important. And then Aaron Jones, why I was glad you mentioned that is because I felt like the screen game has looked great throughout this entire training camp, which is great to see because you and I both know, opposing defense are going to try to heat up JJ McCarthy and what's one way to counteract that, the extension of the run game, screen game.

And Aaron Jones, like, I think there's a, and maybe it's like a minority that I see on social media. Like, I think there's fan base that wants to talk so part, I think there's people who want to talk so much about Jordan Mason that Aaron Jones and his still, like, explosive nits, gets overshadowed a little bit. And so I'm glad you brought that up. but I'd have no problem with that grade.

Ty Chandler running the ball has looked aggressive and it's looked dynamic. And then Xavier Scott has come out of nowhere and as a pass catcher has been impressive. So I'm glad like you're as high on this group as I feel like I am as well. Well, I mean, I think that Aaron Jones overall had a very good season last year. But think about having to run in Cam Acres at the last minute, having Ty Chandler's struggle in that RB2 role and putting so much on him, we can forget that when he was in a A and B role in Green Bay. I mean, he was a superstar in that role. And where I really see it being valuable is we've seen a couple times these wheel routes or rail routes down the field. He caught a ball today

that looks like a wide receiver. He's probably, I'm not making this up. He's probably the third best receiver on this football team as of as we speak right now. His hands are so good. He can go down the field. And I thought Mason did a good job on the short stuff. Did. But Jones is abnormal. And when you have a young and inexperienced quarterback, I don't think there's anything better than having an Aaron Jones to be able to check down to or even swing it a little bit farther out. Yeah. I mean, you'll remember last year in Green Bay. They tried to hit Aaron Jones in the red zone on like a corner route, which running backs don't run. Xavier McKinney picked it off. But like the confidence of the staff to be willing

to put Aaron Jones in a position to run that route in that moment, tells you everything to know, everything you need to know about what they feel about them. And then, I mean, as you say it, I was, I was just thinking, like, has he dropped, Aaron Jones, has he dropped a pass all camp? I actually am not sure there's been one drop all camp. So, again, I'm not going to make him out to be Christian McCraff or whatever, but I just, the ability also to manage the workload of both these guys is just, it's such a plus. And I, and I, and I, have said this many times, but for this team, in my opinion, to get off to the start that they're going to need to get off to, the run game and the defensive line slash front seven, like those have

to be the scaffolding of this team early on. That's just how I feel about it. We'll see if they can back it up when the game starts. Yeah, I think also finally being serious about the backfield and getting Jordan Mason and also stacking up, because we'll talk about the offensive line, but the run blocking, I think, has been very good in this camp. and knowing that you're not going to win with J.J. McCarthy if you don't have that element, and I'm sure KOC has gotten tired of us pointing out, you're the worst in the EPA, you're the worst in the goal line, you're the worst of all those things. And I think they did a lot this offseason to improve that.

Let's talk about wide receivers. And as we record this, we don't know which other wide receivers coming to Minnesota. Yeah, I'm going to flip my phone over. It's going to be somebody probably. I got the alerts on here, the, you know, the Adam Schaefter, you know, all that sort of thing. So we'll see if we get an alert mid podcast that's happened before. But as far as grading the wide receivers, that part doesn't matter. It's what we've seen in front of us.

And I want to go with a C grade for the wide receivers, but it comes with a caveat to it. And I'll throw tight ends in there as well. T.J. Hawkinson and Jordan Addison, the guys who matter have been absolutely terrific. The connection with them has been terrific. We just watched this scrimmage thing where Addison had like 11 catch. and how about the end zone just like rips it from Isaiah Rogers celebrate that was ridiculous i mean he has been making moss catches he has been running routes he's i think his work with justin jefferson has paid off this year it's unfortunate for him and of his own doing that he's going to

be out the first three games because i've watched him thinking that step we talked about and taking last year he didn't but this year i have felt like he did that matters more than anything else. But the fact of the matter is it's been a mash unit for the wide receivers. They lose Rondale more. Ty Felton has not shown that he's ready to go. That's your draft pick. I think eventually he'll be a player, but not ready to go right now. And they didn't do more in free agency yet as we speak. But during this training camp, so you're left with, well, Thayer Thomas catches underneath stuff. Lucky Jackson has been up and down. I thought he had a good day today, kind of bouncing back from a rough preseason game,

but it's left without having Jefferson, it's left J.J. McCarthy to work with a far inferior group to what he's used to having. Yeah, they ended practice today. Ty Felton looked like he banged something with his arm and he was sidelined for most of the practice. And Jordan Addison at the end had like a little, it looked like his left arm or wrist or hand or something.

So they ended practice with the ones on offense. And the three receivers were J. Sean Jones, Thayer Thomas and Lucky Jackson and now I mean the hope is obviously that Justin Jefferson's working his way back and he'll be ready to go in Chicago but but I mean the depth of this group is is a major question and it has it was a question for me even before Rondale Moore had the knee injury the brute that was brutal it was terrible to see for that guy knowing what he's come back from but I even with the ones no and so I even at that time again and the way I look at this roster similar to you probably where it's such a talented group if there are injuries can they

sustain and and so that's where I would ask myself if nailer goes down and he's dealt with injuries a lot in the past like who is there to supplant him now lucky jackson felt like he was the leader in the clubhouse this time probably a week ago and then he drops multiple passes on saturday in the second preseason game so I think this spot right now is a no-brainer ad whether it's via trade whether it's via free agency. I mean, you could talk through names or whatever. And I wouldn't be shocked, too, if there's two. Like, I almost, if it were me, I think I'd want two supplemental acquisitions in some form or fashion.

If one of those is a partner Turner, even better. Well, it's also worth mentioning that I didn't think that Jalen Naylor from a hands perspective proved to me that I shouldn't be concerned about drops with him. there were a lot of drops from Jalen Naylor in these practices. And, you know, Kevin O'Connell points out he can run every route in the playbook. He's been here a long time and he can play any of the positions and that's great. And we've seen him go downfield. But on a play-to-play basis, he's not an Addison. He's not a Jefferson.

And I didn't think it was a great camp for him where every day I was feeling like, oh, Nailer is really emerging. I thought it was pretty much what I would expect from a number three wide receiver who catches 20 balls. since they've won before with him as the number two wide receiver, we know they can do it. But also, that's a little rewriting history. They got way up against San Francisco with a 97-yard touchdown to Jefferson. They got way up against Houston because C.J. Stroud and their offensive line melted down.

It's a good point. It's true that you guys were able to survive that, but by other circumstances helped you do that. If you're in a shootout and you've got undrafted free agents and, former XFL players and those are guys you're actually going to have to rely on. Plus, we don't know what Naylor's injury situation is and how long that's going to last. It's, it's gotten dire past Justin Jefferson and Addison out the first three weeks. There's no doubt. And a couple things I do want to say. The first is there are going to be a lot of teams now over the next week that are going to be sifting in this same market as the Vikings. Like the 49ers are in this market.

The Steelers are in this market. So to just think that they're going to go snatch the best option. I mean, there's going to be competition, which if you're trading, that means competition in terms of, you know, draft capital. And if you're signing, that means that means dollars. Now, fortunately, you give the front office credit. This is part of the reason that they have structured the cap the way they have so that they have space that they can roll over if they need to, but if they need to make a move at this point, they can. The other thing I want to say is, as I, I mean, I've had buddies texting me today. Who are the names? Who are they going to go? And it's like, I mean, it's hard to find the type of player who on a two-week stretch can come in and learn the complexities that this offense is.

And that's why I understand the skepticism of Naylor going back, I mean, a ways. And I'm with you completely that his training camp just did not blow me away at all. But the systematic understanding and knowledge to play all the positions is what this staff, two floors above us, value so much. And so can they find players of that ilk? Like it's it's it's not an easy. I mean, you're really probably sifting through the stack to try to find who makes sense. It's going to be interesting to see where they land. Right.

When you hear like, oh, Kansas City might get rid of Sky more like for our reason, every single player. It's going to be like, well, that guy's underwhelming. Yeah, that's why he's available right now. So the reason they get a C is because they're in this position, even though I would give the most. important players, really high grades, including also Josh Oliver, I think, has had a fantastic camp for them, including a great catch today. But tight end three that we all talk so much about

coming in, still nobody really jumped out at that position. Let's move to the offensive line, where I would have to go C minus for the offensive line. Now, there's a huge caveat, which is just like with wide receivers. If Justin Jefferson was there, I bet it would be a B plus, but he hasn't been. And Darisaw is just finally getting back to doing consistent 11 on 11s. School is at such a tough time over there, as I mentioned. And I thought Will Fries, it took a while. Donovan Jackson is just turning a corner I felt like since the second day of the joint practices. He was, I think, all right today, but there was still a lot of pressure. I'd agree. There's been too many times where J.J. McCarthy drops back and just looks down the field and someone is in his lap. I just don't think

it's been very good overall for the offensive line. In the regular season, when they're all together and all healthy, I think it will be better. But also if you wanted, oh, Michael Juergens to take a huge step and feel confident in him, I haven't felt that. I think Walter Rouse has had another good training camp. But if, you know, a tackle goes down, we know this. The drop off is enormous. The best thing going for them is that Blake Brandel, I think, has had a good camp on the second team. And maybe there's some other guys like Joe Huber who stepped up. But as far as first team offensive line versus this defense, it hasn't been as good as I thought it was going to be. I'm, I don't think that's too harsh or great. I mean, people may take it that way,

but, but I mean, there have been so many times where you just watch, I often, and this is like a JTO Sullivan, QB school, but it's like when the, when the quarterback gets to the top of his drop, where is the pass rush? And so often throughout this camp, he gets just to the top and he can't even hitch and Jonathan Gernard is tapping him on the shoulder or whatever. So, it's I mean it's going to be very interesting to see like I I liked all the signings the Ryan Kelly and what his veteran presence can be like to me made a ton of sense will fry's working his way back from the right leg injury like that was probably going to take some time he's going to have to get back into football shape and all like that that is a part of it and then

donovan jackson um like you heard right around the draft technically as a past protector there's probably stuff that's going to have to be cleaned up a little bit so that was probably going to take some time as well and then you combine it with jvon hardgrave does look amazing jonathan allen has looked amazing they're walking up ivan pace and blake cashman the a gap like caliph hellesi is coming unblocked off the edge like how it's so hard to really evaluate but again really looking forward to week one in chicago against that group like what will they look like like that that's i mean for as much as i've seen it's just i know how much brian flores has you know, has sent at them on a day-to-day basis that it's so hard to really feel like

you have a pulse on. What do they look like against an actual or a stationary front if that exists? Well, that's always the training camp thing. If one unit looks really good, is it the other unit's fault. I thought it would be much more stalemating, but it also just comes along with a bunch of explanations. I mean, Donovan Jackson is just learning this. Ryan Kelly is just learning this offense. And in the backfield, you have Jordan Mason learning the blocking. you still have guys coming back from injuries, I expect this offensive line still to be a top 10 unit in the league, despite what we've seen,

but I haven't felt it was a good training camp overall for them as they still try to get these pieces together. And realistically, I just don't know what to expect from Donovan Jackson because there was a time in camp where I felt like I think you should be really concerned. And then recently I've thought much more of, okay, he's coming along and he's growing. very, very smart guy, and I think he's got a toughness element to him. We've seen some of that violence to him, but it's so hard to play offensive guard in the NFL right now, and it's especially hard for someone who's a rookie. I was laughing at a day because Christian Derisaw was

in some of the team, and there was a pitch toss to the left to Aaron Jones, and Darisaw just sealed it so beautifully, and it was like an eight-yard run. So I'm thinking in my head, like, what if Darisaw is out there the whole time? Then does Jackson look so much better? Then does like you i mean it's this cascading effect same with justin jefferson like then there's the the coverage is so focused on him that maybe they're not sending calipholesi off the edge as an unblocked uh blitzer and i'm probably botching the last name i got to figure that out but um yeah i i mean this because you might make the team no yeah i mean he was out there today as kind of like the number for safety and i thought j ward had a good camp so whether they were just testing that out or whatnot

we'll see but um yeah i i i don't really i'm with you i'm with you I don't have a ton of worry about that group long term, but it might take some time for the pieces to gel. And the hope would have to be that you run the football to where you're not, those guys are not just dropping back and having to anchor time and time again. So I, like, I feel probably like a broken record where everything seems to come back to this. But like, I just do genuinely think they need to have that physical downhill edge from the get-go for this thing. thing to go the right way. And this is where maybe I should even bump the grade up a little bit.

It's so hard sometimes with run blocking when they're not tackling somebody. I think the run blocking's been really good. I would agree with you. There's been a lot of lanes. They've looked like they're coordinated well. It looks like it really fits for an outside zone type of system with the athleticism. As you mentioned the screen game, I'm going to bump it up a little bit. What did I say? C minus. Yeah. Let's go see. Let's go C plus. Let's go C plus. I need not. I talked to you into going up. Well, really, I mean, the screen game has been good. That's the offensive line, too. It's just that when there's so many plays where McCarthy can't go through his

entire progression, that's where you can't give them a super high grade there. Switching over to the other side of the ball, though, you want to talk about a super high grade. I don't know how many pluses are allowed for the interior of the defensive line and outside linebackers, but I will give you all of them. Everything went right for this front seven. They stayed healthy. Hardgrave, to me, was the biggest beast. like they call this dude grave digger for a reason i was thinking like that's a sick nickname

but then after watching i was like that is a man who's nicknamed grave digger is he is violent and he's quick and he's technical and he's he just i don't know he must have been second in pressures to jonathan grenard grunard is on a war path like this man every right every time we've spoken to him i'm like is he gonna is he gonna like throw us into somebody you know what i mean like is he going to is he going to do a swim move on me right now he has been so intense at every moment of this camp. The only downgrade a little bit is that Van Ginkle's been banged up

toward the end of camp, but Dallas Turner's gotten a ton of reps. I thought Dallas Turner had a really, really good training camp. We saw Gabe Murphy emerge. I thought Bo Richter's been fine. Chas Chambliss has showed up. I'm a Chas Chambliss guy.

I've been telling you about this for weeks. I've become a Chambliss guy recently like after the preseason game. I mean, truly, Harrison Phillips has been good. Jalen Redman has been a beast. Oh, he's, I think he's had a great game. The fact that we mentioned him like ninth is probably wrong.

Well, it's not like he's been worse than Chas Chambliss, but like we were just thrown out. Every single player, if you said, did they have the best version of their camp? I would say yes for the front seven. And the most interesting, though, is Dallas Turner. Because if he plays like he has practiced in this camp, this front seven is going to be unstoppable. With how good they are, how much proven talent, he is the only unproven talent. And if he plays like this, I think he's been deeper and, terms of his pass rush bag. I think he's been much stronger. He came in much bigger. And I really

liked his attitude the times that we talked to him about that development path. This could be a top three unit in the entire NFL the way that it's gone in this camp. Yeah, the two things for me. First, are we sure, like is Marcus Dixon, the D-line coach just unbelievable? Like maybe we're just miss it. I mean, I haven't written about him. I don't know if you have come from the Rams. He might have been with the Broncos before. But like, I mean, Jonathan Allen has looked great. Uh, he wears an Alabama headband every day. That's, that's extra credit for him. Jvon Hargrave for that size to be as twitchy and horizontally capable as he is doesn't make any sense. Jalen Redman has taken a step. And this guy was good last year. Levi Drake Rodriguez for there, like there was a

night practice and he gave it to some people in one-on-ones. Um, Taki Ta-Imani mixes in and still looks good. Harrison Phillips. Elijah Williams, the UDFA guy. There's one more who I'm, I think I'm forgetting, maybe not, but this is, this is the problem. We're going to say we've named the whole roster at this point. It's, it's, it is a problem. The second thing I was going to mention is they're going to have to be good because the coverage, I mean, we haven't seen Harrison Smith. Apparently he's, it's been a sickness, but we haven't seen him in like a week. Jeff Okuda walked off the practice field today with a, it looked like foot, ankle, something like that. He didn't look very happy going in.

Isaiah Rogers, I felt like has been good. Like, I'm excited to watch him play because he's, he, I mean, he feels like in the Murphy mode a little bit where he gives you more than you might think. But I just, and then the depth of that cornerback room, like Okuda goes in and now Dwight McLaughern is in an outside corner in Nickel. And I'm just thinking, and I'm getting ahead of myself, but I'm just thinking like, man, the Bengals, if I got nudie McLaughern covering T. Higgins, I'm not sure how I'm going to feel about that. So the point being is, I just think this front seven is going to have to get to the quarterback in quick enough time to cover for that back in sometimes. And that's not to like that I have crazy questions about the back in, but it feels like that's how they've built this thing of we're going to bank on the ability to hold the point on the line of scrimmage and get pressure quickly, and we value that more than having the stickiest cover guys in the world and paying those guys.

So there's only two linebackers at a time. So I'll just say of the linebackers, like, good job linebackers. They're the same people as last year. But shout out to Kobe King, though. Kobe King has come in and won that job. They moved on for Brian Osama, which I think a lot of us thought they would if they liked Kobe King. We know what Eric Wilson brings.

so just give them like a solid I will say this like I'd be curious in the red zone how much they're using Blake Cashman and Eric Wilson I've seen that sometimes and Ivan Pace his skill set is not coverage and so I do kind of wonder if

that would be a spot for them where they take a little bit of an uptick that you really wouldn't you really look back and you're like oh that was kind of a little bonus that they have in that area but yeah same group Kobe King has held his own um flores comped him to pepper johnson which you obviously loved um and uh yeah no that group is you feel good about that group group as long as blake cashman is healthy i squealed a little when

he said pepper johnson because pepper john i mean pepper johns was a great player and played he played for buffalo no new york the giants and cleveland and i want to say had one season with detroit and one or two seasons with the jets he's a neck roll guy i actually try to in touch with him not too long ago because you'll find this fun. He was a coach at IMG when J.J. McCarthy was there. I didn't know that. Yeah. So if you can get to him, maybe you try that. I tried, but haven't had success yet. Anyway, so if they have the next Pepper Johnson, that's really great. But your point about Eric Wilson is really good. I mean, I really, really like Eric Wilson as an addition because last year, Kamu Groujee Hill just gave them nothing. So this is a dynamic piece

potentially. Wilson played over 600 snaps last year. This is not just a special team guy. So actually, you know, I should give them like a solid B plus for that group because I think it's been really good. And then who knows? Like maybe in the red zone, they're like, look, we'll have Van Ginkle on the ball and Dallas Turner off the ball. I mean, that's the versatility. We have seen that a little. And then we've seen there are times where they've got like four safeties in the red zone in the game. So, I mean, this is the Flores thing of like, we're going to get our best guys for the bet for this specific situation. And you credit it because it's just not around the league. It's just not like that. Like they do what they do and it's pretty structured and regimented and it's easier for offenses to get a beat on it. So anyway, okay, secondary is very interesting because there's a grade and then there's also kind of a question. I think that their grade should be decent. I think it should be like a B. I have not. not felt like they've been smoked left and right by the wide receivers. Though again, Justin Jefferson is not out there. Great on a curve. Isaiah Rogers has really impressed me. I think he moves

well, plays the football well. We've seen a number of past breakups from him. Theo Jackson just makes plays and has done that. I think he's had a fine camp. He hasn't blown us away, but it's been fine. And Okuda is to me, someone that's very hard to grade in camp because he is so physical out there to the point where you're like, okay, I mean, that's a penalty. And that it was too far because that's your teammate. He knocked Jayshan Jones down today and you were like, and it was like a loud pop. What are we doing here? There's been several times where I've thought, including when Jefferson got banged up, that was Okuda taken it a little too far. And I just have a concern about the penalties. I also think when you face the Jamar Chase, the T. Higgins, the great receivers in this league,

the Drake London, can you really do that? Or do you have to. to actually cover them. There's concerns there. I also think Mackay Blackman has just had a real struggle this year coming back from that ACL. And Zemaya Vaughn is a nice emerging piece, but Dwight McCluthers falling off, kind of off the face of the earth when it comes to where the coaching staff is with them. I want to go more like a C-plus with this unit with a question of if Stefan Gilmore called you up and said, I've been working out, I'm ready to play. Do you guys want me back would you say yes or no i would say yeah maybe stephan we're gonna we're gonna and then see what else is possible like that's what i would say like is there a tradable you know pick swap

option who's younger it could play more of the style they might want to play this year where it's mixing in more man like i and i've told this story so many times but after the packers game and week 17 last year stephan was i mean they played man coverage like 50% of the game and Stefan, I mean, it was having trouble, you know, moving after that game. And I give him credit for doing it. They needed to win the game. But just at his age, is there a more fluid athlete guy who's maybe in the final year of his rookie deal?

Something like that, that'd be possible. I will say this. Before I tell Stefan, no, I would have that question. And I am of the opinion right now, just like from my seat that they do need to add here. Whether it's, you know, whether you're spinning handsomely or not, I just, it's just a spot where, and I always felt they were going to see how it plays out in training camp and then make that decision. And as after, you know, we've seen it play out. I like Amia Vaughn as an emerging player. Dwight McLaughlin, just not consistent really. Mackay Blackman,

you're right. Like it just hasn't had a camp where you're like, man, this guy's just shutting guys down. And so that is a spot similar to receiver where I'm like, they have the cap space. They have picks. um if you can fortify it a little bit why wouldn't you all right so special teams has become more of a discussion than i thought it was going to be if you had asked me are you going to be grading the special teams i probably would have said uh no but i think we have to they have an emerging australian punter who's kind of interesting i still don't think that he's going to be the punter ryan wright i don't know i'm supposed to evaluate that but uh reichard had a tough day brought it along missed one today i don't know still looks like will riker to me yeah i'm i'm

fine on Will Reg. Last year, he kind of looked bulletproof going into the season and then started out that way. So that raised our expectations to like, oh, this is the next great kicker in the NFL. But I think he's been fine in camp. The kick returning situation still being a bumble bleep is very concerning to me. And I just both. I mean, if you're talking about Felton, him fumbling, I mean, that's just unacceptable. Well, he's never done it. So why would we? So why, I mean, that's my question would be, yes he has the size he has speed this is going to be a physical play but a guy who's never done it being thrust into what i think talking to people around the league and you have two like i think this play is going to be a pretty pivotal play in the league this year swing a ton of games so that spot and then punt return i i looked up these stats Saturday because i was in the press box board during the preseason game they average 6.9 yards per punt return last year which is the lowest in the NFL and they've averaged the lowest punt return average over the last three years since Kevin

O'Connell got here. And I get it. It's special teams. It's punt return. But like these these games are one-on margins. If you could possibly elevate those spots, including punter, I mean, to me, you're just leaving money on the table. I agree that not going out and getting a punt returner that was more proven this offseason was a mistake for that. And they try. Silas Bolden, I'll say this. Silas Bolton did it at a very high level in college, but as a receiver, it doesn't feel like Dave loved what he's given them. And so he hasn't really gotten a ton of chances. And I still think Silas Bolton could be a guy who's an elite power turner. Do they want to carry that, especially with the injuries at receiver? Like, I guess that's a fair question. Very, very risky even with

him. And he catches the ball really well. But we saw Miles Price drop another one today. That's not looking great. And just you can't really even say that Rondale Moore was a proven punt returner, he hadn't done it in years so it's not like oh they lost their their key punt returner you're right that their lack of emphasis on those types of guys the returners the specialists aside from one draft pick being spent on will rickard it stands out it's a bit of a sore thumb on the roster and i think the grade has to be pretty poor because we're going into the third preseason game still saying like we don't really know and maybe i am overstating the impact on the game like i very well could be maybe maybe there's metrics maybe there's

I mean, they've won 13, like, so, so I, I may just be just, you know, worked up about it to be worked up about it, but it's just for me, when I, when I, anecdotally by the eye test, it hasn't been great in any of those areas. And then the numbers would verify that. And then to see, you know, the approach to it. It's just, it just, I don't know, it's, it bothers at times just knowing how talented and capable of the rest of the roster is. Not this year when it comes to that. If you had said that last year, I would have said, who cares? fair catch every pun don't return any kicks just play it safe let your offense and defense determine what happens but this year with the kickoffs there's no hiding you got to be sure about it and then

it's like matt daniels what is what's like you get the key players that you got so anyway okay here's how i want to end this with you so i saw you pulling something up i was getting real hesitant i got my fan duel app uh here and what you could do on fan duel is it's got over under win totals from all the way from 4.5 to 13.5 wins you can place wagers on in certain legal states. But what I'm going to do is I'm going to just start count up over unders and you tell me when to stop. So it's like the price is right game and you tell me what you think the correct over under line should be after we saw camp. So I'm just going to start reading them and then you just tell me when you think is the right time. I don't mind this.

So and I'm not going to give you, Ed, the numbers on everyone. you just tell me when you think is the right time for this team's over under okay so 4.5 wins five hang on I'm just going to name them and then it's like the price is right where you have to say when to stop okay so in the price right they push a button okay so just pretend to just go like bong or okay yeah all right uh 5.5 wins 6.5 wins 7.5 wins 8.5 wins 9.5 wins. Oh, and we've got our bunk. So you think the right place for the over, under for this team is nine and a half. Explain. Um, schedule's hard. Durability is going to be critical quarterback. We haven't seen playing a real game. Um, just feels pretty fair to me. But you also have the infrastructure of what Kevin O'Connell and this staff has done. You have the continuity with Brian Flores and a lot of these defenders. The front seven looks exceptional.

Justin Jefferson's going to be back and he is who he is. So that feels right to me. I think that's right. I've got them at 11 wins if I had to guess, but 10.5 seems like a little bit on the high side to give them with an unproven quarterback. Yet I still kind of feel like I want to go there with 10.5 because the standard is high and it should be.

And this defense is good. And like we can nitpick all the little things like we did last year and then they had a top five defense. Going back to that corner point, Maybe Shaq Griffin should have come back here because I thought he was decent in his role. But that kind of tells you where we're at. So there are concerns. There are concerns across the roster.

But when you pull out and you look at the entire thing, it's pretty clear this is one of the better rosters in the league with one of the better coaching staffs, one of the better groups of weapons, an offensive line that's revamped. And J.J. McCarthy looks like he can win games to me at this moment. So I would go one higher than that, 10.5. Is that the end of the game? and that's the end of the game. I thought you were going to go like all these different props

and I was going to go, er, I was excited about it. No, I was just, it's just like, I was trying to help fan do it. There's like a yodeler or something in the price is right game.

No, as far as not to cut you off. I, I'd like to tell you more about the price is right. I watched a lot of it growing up. It's not surprising. No, the 10 and a half,

I get it. And I mean, like if someone's watching or whatever and they're like, I could see eight and a half. I've said to people like even family members like what do you think and I'm like any way this ends this year I'm probably going to understand it if it's phenomenal and the people who watch this show are having the time of their life I'm not going to be surprised and if it's like well below what the people watching this want to see I don't know if I'm going to be that crazy surprise either and that's just the uncertainty again specifically with quarterback it is what it is. And I have a ton of faith in the infrastructure and the talent, but they

have been very healthy over the last couple years. Like, can that, or not last couple, but two out of the last three. Like, can that, is that, you know, fortune, is that Tyler Williams and their staff does an amazing job and Kevin O'Connell with the way he structures things, we will find out.

And I mean, like Coasey said, his first press conference, can't wait to learn. Like, that's where, for this season, I mean, it's, it is a mystery. box revealing itself every single week. That will be a blast for us. I know that. We will be here every moment of it. Alec Lewis, The Athletic, The Alec Lewis Show on YouTube, make sure you go check that out. And we will definitely be doing this again and checking back on our, on our prices right. I know. I was going to say, please do. We could grate some other stuff, whatever you want to do.

So thank you for all of your time. And we'll talk to you all soon. Always fun. Thank you. There you go. Alec Lewis, the Alec Lewis Show and from The Athletic, you know his writing work there.