Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Emergency podcast: Jaren Hall named starting quarterback vs. Packers

Episode Date: December 28, 2023

Matthew Coller and Alec Lewis of The Athletic react to the Vikings benching Nick Mullens and decision to start Jaren Hall as the Vikings go to play the Packers Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome inside TCO Performance Center. Matthew Collar here along with Alec Lewis of The Athletic. Just happened to be the last guy around, so now he's on the podcast reacting to the Vikings announcing that Jaron Hall will be starting on Sunday night against the Green Bay Packers. So let us begin there. Speaking of last guy around. What do you mean? Oh, Jaron Hall, yeah, right, the last guy around.

There you go. Well, the last guy who doesn't do you mean? Oh, Jared Hall. Yeah, right. The last guy around. There you go. Well, the last guy who doesn't have a four-interception game. So why don't you give me your takeaway first? Is this the right move for the Vikings to start Jared Hall in this big Sunday night contest with the season on the line? I mean, yeah, I think so. I know I'm not very excited saying that. I mean, this season has just been ridiculous. And when you have a guy like Nick Mullins who turned the ball over as many times

as he did that last Sunday, and really to me, it was the way he turned the ball over. I mean, a lot of those paths, I think really about the fourth and two play where he tries Jordan Addison on the over and then Justin Jefferson comes open right behind him. There was a lot there, that type of play you just cannot have. And there's a lot that we can talk about. But when you turn it over that much and when Josh Dobbs turned it over the amount of times that he did and when he was benched, you get to a point where it's like, can we just get a guy to color inside the lines? And if we can, then maybe we can be effective. It really helps that they're playing Joe Barry's defense for the Green Bay Packers.

If they're not, I'm not totally sure if I feel the same about this because we'll talk about it, but I think they have some talent. Just the way they're coordinated leaves a whole lot to be desired. You can read any Packers story to figure that out. So, yeah, I mean, I think it's the right thing at this point when you've turned it over as much as you have. I really think Jaren's a complete unknown. I know a lot of the fans out there have been vying for him for a long time, but we really don't know what this guy is. We saw him for a drive or two, and he looked solid at times

and a little wayward at others. So, sure, yeah, you're 7-8. You got a lot of players out. It's going to be an uphill battle, but why not? Well, and Jaron Hall is going to have it a little bit more tricky than his predecessors in the fact that they will not have TJ Hawkinson. And Jordan Addison doesn't look like a guy who's going to play in just a couple days from what we've seen out on the practice field.

I suppose that's possible, but he won't be at 100%. So it could be Brandon Powell is wide receiver three. And they will get Brian O'Neill back, though. That helps a little bit. Johnny Mudd. Oh, and of course, you know, Johnny Mudd. The best third tight end in the NFL is what we were told earlier this year. I'm not arguing.

So last week, halfway through the game, I don't remember if it was interception two or three or if it was this. We shouldn't forget about the strip sacks. The interceptions always get talked about the most because they were the most heinous and especially the last interception. But he also got strip sack to nearly give the ball away if it weren't for a superman dive from justin jefferson to keep the game alive then you just fail right there if their fat guy just falls on the ball as opposed to trying to pick it up and run it into the end zone he was strip sacked multiple times there was another one where he was going down and tried to do the throw thing as he was almost on the ground but once again his butt came into play hit the ground just in time when that happens it is uh

but nick mullins was credited by pff with seven turnover worthy plays which is i think as many as josh dobbs had the entire time he was starting so that's unacceptable you can't run that back out there i think the conversation is are you going to as kevin o'connell try to protect jaron hall in ways that maybe you didn't from nick mullins because with nick mullins they drew up a game plan that was basically like jamis mullins like go and throw that ball hey is this is this like it son is that old dan marino they got back there i mean there were plays where he's throwing to the opposite hash on a 15 yard out route i'm like i, I Matthew Stafford. Is that,

is that who he thinks is that quarterback deep routes all over the place. If they do that with Jaron hall is possible that he plays it a little safer and checks down, but then are they going to be punting? And Kevin O'Connell thinking, wait a minute, there was a guy wide open down the field. Like I have tried to stay out of that conversation because I feel like there's no right answer.

If you limit everything and try to bring it all in, then you're scoring 13 points and still losing the game anyway. But instead you had Nick Mullins air it out through four picks also scored 24 points. I'm not sure that there's a right answer, but I'm almost certain the right answer with Jaron Hall is not to be like, all right, Jaron, let it loose. Let's let's show him some old film of far. That's what this guy needs. I think reigning it in for Jaron Hall probably is the right decision, but I don't know if they'll do it. Part of me is kind of upset because I go back to Sunday's game and I remember like we sit on the same row of the press box. I don't know if people care,

but it was hilarious to me because Nick Mullins would drop back and throw it into triple coverage. We were looking at each other like, how is he? What is he? Can he really be doing this? There would be some completions where you're like, holy cow. I think at the time I said this out loud or tweeted it was like it was like watching a Red Bull dirt bike jump over a mountain like in quarterback form it was highly entertaining and I know we do this job we I there's a lot we have to do I mean we're riding for the fit there's a lot that's going on we have to analyze but just as like a human being who likes entertainment it was highly entertaining as far as Kevin O'Connell adapting, I mean, look, you're going to have a rookie quarterback who is coming off a concussion, who had multiple concussions in college at BYU,

who is going to be playing without, as you said, TJ Hawkinson. Jordan Addison, we've seen him walk through practice earlier this week. I haven't seen him jog one time. He's got that ankle injury. You're playing with a run game that has not been any better than it was last year. We could talk about that for a whole host of reasons, but you would really hope at this point for a guy that doesn't have the greatest arm strength in the world. We both know that. We've both seen that. You would try to put him in the optimal position in terms of play actions, in terms of bootlegs, in terms of moving the launch point.

But again, with Nick Mullins and with Josh Dobbs, the adaptation to those guys was hard to find. Josh Dobbs, there were a bunch of read option type plays and not in the Broncos game, but in the game after that, where this season is weighing on me, obviously. And I guess, right. The Raiders game. There were some read option type calls. He handed most of them off because Max Crosby was dictating that. But you would really hope with Jaron, a guy who. Yeah, I mean, it's gonna be a second start and he's barely played at this level against the speed,

that you would try to take the load off of him as much as possible. Kevin was on X's and O's. He does this interview every week, and he was talking about Jordan Love and what Matt LaFleur has done for Jordan Love. And one of the things that he cited that Matt LaFleur has done for Jordan Love is allow him to take a couple breather plays. And maybe you have to run the ball effectively, and have Aaron Jones or more creative run game to do that but to me if you're going to try to keep him Jaron Hall that keep him out of harm's way is going to

be essential for him Kevin O'Connell and this staff and this game plan to meet him at probably where his strengths lie Kevin Sievert colleague, had a great stat that the Vikings had thrown the least screen passes in the league since Kirk Cousins went down, which makes absolutely no sense. So I think that there are things that you can look at and go like, why wouldn't they be helping out with screens? Why wouldn't they be helping out more with play action where I thought Nick Mull's best moments in that game, where he looked the most in command, was on some of those play actions and bootlegs,

which he was very good at running when he was with Kyle Shanahan. Now there's only so much of that you can do. There's only so much you can tweak out the offense to try and limit what your quarterback has to do. We've seen that with Cincinnati, where they did a bunch of play actions and screens, and eventually time ran out on that one against Pittsburgh and they took care of business and he was ultimately Jake Browning, a backup quarterback, which that's what makes

Jaron Hall a little more interesting here is now if I were to project forward on his career, I'll tell you where I would land is he's probably a backup quarterback. I really like the way that he handles himself. He is very calm. He's very mature. He looked like an NFL quarterback getting to the line of scrimmage, getting in and out of the huddle. Even when he had to come in against Green Bay, the offensive lineman talked about getting the play in, getting up to the line of scrimmage and so forth. And I think that's a huge part of the operation is can you look confident? Do you know what you're doing? And then we can kind of go from there. The fact that he handles the pressure and that he handles the offense already says to me, this player could play in the NFL for a while. Now the rest of it is impossible to know. And

even they talk that way. Like they're saying like, I mean, we're betting on traits. We don't really know what he's going to do. We're going to try our best. But I don't think there's any world where Kevin O'Connell says, you know what? We're going to dial back this offense. We're going to pair it all down. We're going to play like the Pittsburgh Steelers, or we're going to hand off twice and then pass only on third down or something. It's very clear that if you're going to play quarterback for this team, you're going to have the ball in your hands a lot like this. This is like an offense built for James Harden to play basketball. And then James Harden going out and being like, back up, just do all the things that now you create, just do all the same things that James Harden is able to do.

Like that's kind of what Kevin O'Connell is asking. At the same things that James Harden is able to do like that's kind of what Kevin O'Connell is asking at the same time Justin Jefferson went berserk on a bunch of throws that weren't even that accurate and so like there's this push and pull 100 are you asking Jaron to do too much or wait shouldn't he just be throwing it to Jefferson but I think that the unknown here at least to me I know exactly what Josh Dobbs is. I know exactly what Nick Mullins is. Sean Mannion's in Seattle. We knew exactly what he was. I know what all the other guys are. I don't know what Jaron Hall can do here. And I think protecting the football seems more reasonable as a thing he could do the one area where I'm worried and it sounded like he

was a little worried as well is is getting hurt and like that that is a is a very legit thing because he took a lot of sacks in the preseason the first time he gets in and today he's saying like hey those NFL players are fast you guys know that we're like yeah we saw I'm glad you caught that because he is someone asked him like what did you learn from those early snaps in Atlanta? And he's like, yeah, I mean, these guys move pretty fast. It's like, yeah, that is for sure. Correct. Really do.

Yeah. No. Same BYU, pal. It's definitely a concern. I mean, go back to the press conference that Kevin O'Connell held Tuesday, the day after Christmas, two days after the game. And he said we were asking about the quarterback who's going to be starting. And he's like, you know, we're looking at all the options, but let's be honest. We really need to prepare everybody because the way the season has gone. And it was like, well, I mean, that's not the most confidence that a guy's not going to get

hurt and you're not going to need to thrust some guy in there. So yeah, I'm with you though, in terms of the offense and what the quarterback is asked to do in this offense it is a lot I mean we talked to Wes Phillips yesterday the offensive coordinator obviously and I asked him the question you guys have talked all year about prioritizing Jaron's development like what did that look like and he starts talking about three-step drops are not all the same there's three step at a hitch three step, three-step in time, three-step, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, this is so complicated, and I'm not a quarterback, obviously, so of course it's going to be complicated for me.

But you start to ask the question, like, does it have to be this complicated? Does it have to? But that's where you meet the push and pull of. You want the ball to get to your skill players. When you have Justin Jefferson, Jordan Addison, and TJ Hawkinson, like they did last weekend against the Lions, and you're facing a defense that is devoid of talent, especially covering those guys, like how could you not want to lean on your strength? So it's a very complex, probably puzzle to sort through. And it's easy for me on the outside to question it. But I think

at times you do have to question it. And for me, a lot of it starts with the run game we've talked about this but it was a priority all offseason I've thought about this a lot over the last few days but like they signed Josh Oliver and talk all about how that's going to help their run game now they factored having Jordan excuse me Justin Jefferson in the mix there and having Kirk and how those pieces would help them run the ball effectively. But reality is they have the same rushing success rate, 38.7%, that they had last year. And so it's really difficult when you're trying to put a backup quarterback that you barely trust or a young quarterback that you have no idea

what they're going to be. If you want them in easier easy situation easier situations third and short it's really difficult to put them there when you don't know when you can't get yourself in the third and short maybe that necessitates more quick game more screens like we've talked about but they just haven't been able to do that and so it it scares me a little bit if you're asking a guy like jaron hall to be dropping back on third and seven over and over it's gonna make me want to do this probably on new year's eve folks if you've been listening to the show then you know how much fun we have been having with prize picks this year just go to prizepicks.com slash purple use the code purple for a first deposit match up to $100.

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a lot of money. That is prizepix.com slash purple, just more or less on yardage totals and you are in prize picks.com slash purple the code purple for a first deposit match up to 100 yeah it could be very much the same the way i described it was if we had kirk cousins it was always a bit of a roller coaster but this is strapping a rocket launcher onto it, like where the ups and downs are so much wilder, uh, then, and it could be the same way with Jaron Hall, or he could go 17 for 30 with 168 yards because they're trying so hard. It's, it's a really impossible, it's like hitting a moving target and you almost can never do that on a week to week basis. You might have a Joe Flacco game

where the guy goes absolutely nuts, but then through three picks the week before, and like, that's been how the entire league has worked. I think that when it comes to making this decision, there are two things that play into it that I think makes it right. Number one, the interceptions were so outrageous. Like it wasn't, it wasn it wasn't just like oh it's a bad play call or whatever right it was justin jefferson is going wide open over the middle of the field you step up like you are an outfielder and go ah and the ball just comes out like a punt flopping through the air until it gets picked off and that wasn't even the worst pick in my mind of the day

there's like there was an arm punt where he overthrew jefferson by about 20 yards there was one where jordan addison's breaking there's two actually where jordan addison is wide open and it could be an explosive play and it's just a bad football throw and i think that that's where all right maybe jaron hall doesn't fully understand because i think nick mullen's brain if you plop that thing into Josh Dobbs body, you'd be like, that is one hell of a quarterback. I mean, I, but, but I think that his brain can operate at the NFL level and that's why everybody likes him. It's, it reminds me of Nathan Peterman who during training camps, like would win jobs and stuff. And then he'd have to come into game and throw five picks. Like it just, the arm is not matching up with the brain, but with Jaron Hall,

one thing I could say, I don't think that he's got a howitzer, but I do think that we saw him in the fourth preseason game when he got to start and play the whole time, there was some tight window throws. There were some times where he stepped into a throw that I just thought, okay, that like, it's not star NFL arm talent, but it's NFL arm talent. And if he's got that as a starting point is that the whole season to prepare, this isn't his first game like to prepare for. So he's been through this before. Like there's a little bit of like, what is it going to look like if the guy doesn't throw, you know, dead ducks in the air or balls that are 20, 20 yards over. And I

think that that's where like the intrigue of this thing comes in and the other part of it. So that's one, like the interceptions were so bad. The fumbles were so bad that there's no reason to play, to try that again and play Mullins. The other part of it is living in reality of where you are as a team. You lose Hawkinson, you lose DJ Wanham, Addison's banged up. You're just not going to win the Super Bowl probably. And look, in the best case scenario for them, Jaron Hall plays great. You're like, oh, well, we might have a quarterback here. You get into the playoffs.

In the worst case scenario, it's still actually kind of fine where you don't win, but you find out about Jaron Hall and you try your darndest and whatever. If Hawkinson wasn't hurt and Wanham wasn't hurt and Byron Murphy wasn't hurt, you might be like, all right, maybe Jefferson can guide you to a playoff win or something. But now it's just gotten so bad with the other injuries that you would prefer to find out about Jaron Hall to losing with Nick Mullins because you don't have anyone healthy. And the third, I mean, I think you're exactly right. The third thing I would say is you're going up against a Joe Barry

Packers defense that has been so susceptible to passing, even from a rookie Bryce Young, who has had a lot of trouble all year, even against bad defenses. So it is not as if you are throwing it, thrusting him into a game where he's probably going to have a ton of tight window throws. I mean, this is not the New Orleans Saints who are playing man coverage the entire game with the Debo and Marshawn Lattimore, and they're going to really press you. So like guys like Johnny Mudd, who are not going to win one-on-one coverage, guys like Brandon Powell, who has one separated a little bit, but you really prefer probably not to have him be doing that the entire game.

You're not going to have Jaron Hall trying to find guys in those spots against this Packers defense. But again, even as I say that, and I told you this before we hopped on, like Rashaun Gary is no joke. Like this guy is no joke. Go back to, we as I say that, and I told you this before we hopped on, like Rashawn Gary is no joke. Like this guy is no joke. Go back to, we've talked about this, the Lions game from a few weeks ago, that pass rush, Preston Smith, Kenny Clark, Devontae Wyatt. I mean, there are some, there are some guys on that front that can, can make it tough

for you. And I mean, I don't know. I do expect them to have Brian O'Neill. I will say that I do expect them to have Brian O'Neill. I will say that. I do expect that, but still. So to me, even against Joe Barry's defense, it's going to be on this coaching staff, just as it has been, to move Jaron Hall out of the pocket, to have him drop back straight and have him look through at his size and try to find guys over the middle, to me, is just not going to be a recipe for success even if I think they should be pretty okay against this defense if you can run the ball a little more effectively and if you can

have Jaron Hall find guys in these spaces of zones that are all over the tape if you watch it I mean DJ Chark I tweeted this but Amir Smith-Marset last week was beating Jair Alexander one-on-one coverage Jair's obviously not going to play, but the Panthers receiving core is probably the worst in the NFL. Adam Thielen, great career. He's done a lot, but it's been really tough for them over there. And so with the skill players, to me, I think Jaren Hall's going to have a chance. The other thing, maybe having Jaren Hall, who is younger,

who has had less time in that environment, maybe that forces Kevin O'Connell to pull the gas off a little bit on the aggression. Maybe it's like, you know what? This guy's never really been in the spot. Sunday night game, New Year's Eve. So let's get him in a rhythm. Let's have him check down some screens, keep him a little bit from having to do everything.

And so maybe it kind of forces that gap offensively to be bridged a little bit, if that makes sense. No, it does. And I also think that Nick Mullins being a veteran player who understands the offense so well, he could coach it.

He just can't play most of it. But like, he's got to understand that Jaron Hall does not know football the way Nick Mullins does. Like Nick Mullins has played quarterback for Kyle Shanahan and Kevin O'Connell and he was with Philadelphia I think for a while and Cleveland and Kevin Stefanski like these are very similar type of offenses that he's been learning for a long time so maybe O'Connell and again like look they're one throw away from winning that game. So it's hard to say like they blew everything.

It's not like he threw four picks and they lost by 35 points. But I think that he will understand better or he should understand better that Jaron Hall does not know the offense in the same way that Nick Mullins would. So can you pare it down a little bit more? Almost not quite in the fashion that they did for Dobbs, but maybe in like Dobbs' second start before then they believe too much that Josh Dobbs knew everything and can handle everything. It's so hard not to talk yourself into like, what were they doing, this coaching staff? But you kind of have to keep in mind who we're talking about here. But I do think that that is fair to expect them to bring it back in. And also

it is, uh, the sort of like, on one hand, you could tell me green Bay's defense is horrendous and I totally agree. And you look at all the numbers and they say that at the same time, they actually did pressure Kirk quite a bit in that game in green Bay. And it has to be for Joe Barry, a save your job game. It has to be like, remember the one time at Donatello for like a half started blitzing people. And it was like, yeah, Ed, get them. And then Ed was like, okay, now what do I go back to my usual nickel with a too high show? I feel like it might be the same thing where Joe Barry's like, man, I am about to lose my job. I am going to send everything at this kid and try to, you know, save my carcass here for this, for this one night on national TV. But I think they're hard to predict because their defensive line is good.

And how Jaron Hall reacts to that pressure, I think is a major concern for his health and for how he reacts to that because he's only had a few snaps at full NFL speed. And yes, he had two drives that look competent, but we know this. As the game goes along, things change. The looks change. The pressure is going to happen. Like the Falcons forgot to cover Alexander Madison. That was most of that drive.

He was like a honey hole shot to Alexander. We're like, what is even going on? Except for there was no safety. So it was just like a wide open pass. But throughout that game, what did they do? They eventually started getting after Dobbs. They started beating the offensive line. And that would be my concern.

But let me ask this. What is a reasonable expectation, like a reasonable stat line, a reasonable performance for Jaron Hall? Well, I think they're going to throw the football. It seems like we found out that they are not just going to pull off the gas, even without TJ Hawkinson and potentially Jordan Addison. I, you know, I don't really – it's a terrible question. I'm not going to be political. I'll give you something. But, like, I don't know, 60% completion.

Like, can you get me 200 yards? Maybe, I don't know, two touchdowns and one turnover. Like, if you just – I think two turnovers. I was going back. They've had five games this year of three turnovers or more. So, like, okay, five out of 15, 33% of their games, they've had three turnovers or more. Like if you can get me two turnovers or better, we're making progress here. I think that's the reality. So I don't know, like 20 for 32, 200 yards, two touchdowns, two interceptions.

I don't know. If you get that, I think you feel okay with it. I mean, and you hope that Brian Flores can dip back into the magic and somehow stifle Jordan Love. What do you think? I totally forgot. I totally spaced on this. I was going to mention that I actually think it's worse

that Jair Alexander's not playing. I think Jair Alexander has reached such a point of being washed. He's had a lot of injuries from last year, and there seems to be some personality conflict going on. Personality conflict is such a way to say that. It would have been better to have a Justin Jefferson hoping to cook that guy on every single play than Jair Alexander out. And so then they're going to try to cover up for that as opposed to saying, oh, Jair's got him.

And then Jefferson goes for whatever number of yards, uh, circling back to what's realistic for Jaron Hall. If we think about like the extremes, which would be one extreme is that he really struggles and it looks like Dobbs and he's just having a very tough time. You could end up with like 130 yards on 25 passes. The other side of that is if receivers are wide open down the field, you can end up with 315 yards and three interceptions. Like that's just the offense that they play. And I it's really, I've really started to think of Kevin O'Connell as being very similar to Bruce Arians, where if the next quarterback is like Carson Palmer, then you're going to really have something here because these downfield shots are there to be had.

But can you ask Jaron Hall to make them consistently? We saw some of that, but we also saw some inaccurate passes and things like that. I remember if you want to go back and look at the JTO Sullivan breakdown, we're both fans of QB school. He did a breakdown of Jaron Hall's game and he pointed out that it was either like great or terrible. There were some really excellent throws. And then there were some where he went like, oh, I'm not sure what was happening there, which is I mean, we're trying to work off of a fourth preseason games. It's hard to say. But if we're shooting down the middle of that it's probably where you're at if you throw one interception and a couple of touchdowns and you score 21 points you're going to have a chance because jordan love really struggled the last time against brian floris's

defense i do think it's a big drop off from DJ one of the Patrick Jones. I mean, I think it's a huge drop off, but you know, it's a defense. It's kind of reeling. It's struggling a little bit against the run. It's not out there today at practice. Yep. That seems pretty, pretty serious for him that he might not be back. So I do think they'll have to score, but it might end up just being the game, how it plays

out. Like if you can get ahead, that how it plays out. Like if you can get ahead, that's what I think. Then maybe you can have those short passes and those longer drives. It sounded like Kevin O'Connell basically thought Detroit's going to score a bunch of points on us. Exactly. So we better, we better hit these deep shots. And ultimately he ended up being right. I, you, I, you probably won't get into that with green Bay. I think that last week was their first 30 plus point game. So they've played much more low scoring games than Detroit. So I think that's how they're going to approach this is to try to play it.

Like it's going to be a low scoring kind of position battle. I agree with you. It's so funny. You mentioned that about the Detroit game, because I almost said this earlier, but I mean, think about all the narratives and what we've talked all about this week. Like what happens if the, and I said this to you kind of in the moment,

but what happens if Jared golf, that pass, that was that, that fumble that can buy them return for a touchdown that they ended up calling back. Like what happens if that's called back? And then what happens if they win the game, but Nick Mullins throws three picks, is he still starting? Are we taught? Are we probably is. I mean, mean so the the craziest thing to me and this is like just me personally talking these people probably don't really I don't know if they really care but it is just so amazing how like one play can really alter the entire narrative alter how we view it like if they win the game because of

that fumble are we talking about Kevin O'Connell being too aggressive? Or are we saying, you know what, they put up all those points? It's just so interesting how I think we react to it. I think all of it's rightful, and I enjoy that discussion. But I'm completely with you in that the way they approach this Packers game, they talk all the time about, like, how do we win the football game? It's something Kevin O'Connell, he meets with Matt Daniels, special teams coordinator, Brian Flores, the defensive coordinator every Saturday.

And they talk about it like, what do we need from your unit? How do we need to play? And given the way the Packers are, I mean, they've had some injuries at wide receiver, but some of those young guys have stepped up. Their offensive line, a little leaky at times. Like, it would not be surprising to me if they view it as, this is a field position game.

We are not going to put Jaron Hall in harm's way. Kevin has mentioned the stat multiple times this week about that. They have not lost a game in his time here when they have not turned the ball, when they have broke even or won the turnover margin. So, the amount of times we've heard that stat and just that conversation in general, I just would not be shocked if they kind of turtle up a little bit and play field position. And it's going to maybe if they don't score, it'll lend itself to what is going on, get more aggressive, which is the nature of how this thing goes.

And some of it's probably always rightful. It's very much the we're all looking for who's responsible for the turnovers meme. Uh, now that doesn't go for the fumbles early in the season. There's nothing that the coach can do even hit them with pool toys in the, uh, in the practices, which they were doing. But, uh, as far as the interceptions go, the throws were there to be made and just Nick Mullins made horrendous throws that got picked off. Um. But how the game plays out, it matters a lot to how the quarterback plays and how you can dial it up as a coach.

And we can actually go through all of this to where it's like, if Madison doesn't fumble in Denver, does Josh Dobbs get more time if they don't play well against the Raiders, who, by the way, suddenly have an amazing defense? Yeah, Patrick Graham is like, yeah, it's unbelievable. Right, and obviously Antonio Pierce,

and they decided they weren't trying to get their coach fired, and look, they can actually play. But even in the Raiders game, and this was Kurt Warner's point when he made that video, it's like drop, drop, drop. They dropped like five passes in the Raiders game, and if they don't drop those passes, maybe they don't take Dobbs out. But then they're not just taking Dobbs out. They're making him QB three as if he was the

worst quarterback and they just don't even want to look at him anymore. And it's like, you know what? If you decided on one quarterback, Josh Dobbs from day one or Jaron Hall, if he hadn't gotten hurt, played them all the way through the season. Or if you spin the wheel and pick one at random, it's probably the same results. season. Or if you spin the wheel and pick one at random, it's probably the same results. It's the same odds. It's like, there's a lot of things that we can question about it. Like, Hey, maybe you should have just adjusted to Dobbs and played the same way, but look what he has been in his career. Look what Nick Mullins has been in his career. He is a walking interception for his entire career. And like, this was bound to happen and sort of,

Hey, Kevin, did you not know he was going to throw the picks? Cause he threw ass tons of picks for his entire career. And so like, I kind of like ending all of that, trying to chase your tail with these bad backups who, if you ranked all the quarterbacks who have played this year,

let's say there's 70 quarterbacks who have played this year let's say there's 70 quarterbacks who have played this year Dobbs and Mullins are like number 52 and 61 out of 70 yeah and so at least they're in the Easton stick yeah no I'm kidding he's probably better like Easton yeah you might be an Easton mind he's like yeah okay uh uh he's probably around the same he can really stick it in there but uh that's good he's probably around the same ballpark though like a tommy devito or whatever a guy who could come in and have a game so at least with jaron hall we get to find out something new since we already knew that and i think that that's favorable for them and i think it is favorable for them for somebody at quarterback to force them to dial it back a little bit, but still here's what I wonder about.

Is it legal to throw a short pass to Justin Jefferson? Like that's that over the last two years, I have just really, uh, I don't want to say torn my hair out because it's not going great up there. Uh, maybe that's what happened is I watched them not ever throw ever a short pass to Justin Jefferson. And I guess I want Kevin O'Connell to be inspired, like be inspired to care about the run game, be inspired to stick with the run game, be inspired to throw a screen, be inspired and believe in yourself that if Justin Jefferson runs a quick out and gain six yards, it's a good play. I mean, that I think is their biggest opportunity here is to maybe learn how to play this way because I don't think any of us minded that they wanted to play wide open with Kirk Cousins, but it also caused a roller coaster in his performance too, that it was always like,

if Kirk doesn't make all the throws or guys aren't open like against Chicago or Carolina, you just really don't have another answer. So I am very curious about what the game plan ends up looking like. And I think it's kind of like a conversation around the leagues and in different buildings. Like think about last year's Dallas Cowboys and Kellen Moore, and then they switch play callers to Mike McCarthy. It's like, we're not going to be so aggressive. We're going to play a little more possession football. And then like earlier this year, they're like, we need to get more aggressive with Dak. And it's like, man, Dak's playing great. He's pushing the ball down the field. It's I think it's always in, in probably every one of these buildings,

like it's kind of a moving target of where, when is it right to be aggressive enough? And when is it not right to, what is it right to pull back I mean you know it'll be interesting like do do short passes to Justin Jefferson present themselves last year in week 17 against the Packers they pressed him and they jammed him at the line of scrimmage they had Jair doing that he had help over the top which is why he thought he played so great I don't know if he really did when you have two guys on one you probably play a little bit better. And I will tell you, we found out about Jair's suspension right after Justin did the press conference. And he kind of found out, but you saw his face.

I don't really know if he was upset, but I just imagined the competitor he is. He seemed disappointed. He just wanted to cook Jair. And he probably would have, no matter who the quarterback is. But if there's off coverage on Justin on the outside, you wonder like, can we just throw a swing pass? They've done it a couple of times this year, but then when they've done it, Jordan Addison's the blocker in front of them. And it's like, that can't be the right thing. The five foot nine wide receiver blocking for, for Justin Jefferson. So yeah, it, to me as, as, as important

as explosives are. And if you, and I know you love the metrics analytics. If you talk to me about winning games, it starts with turnovers and then explosive plays, creating them and eliminating them. And so I get why you hunt explosives. It's hard to drive the field, 10 plays, 12 plays consistently over and over. But at times you just feel like for the rhythm of it all, it would benefit to have short, have some more short passes to have to run the football better. I looked at the statistics, like their yards before contact, which I think is some indication of their blocking is way lower than it was last year. So the blocking probably in the run game

has not been great against some of these good teams. And again, well, whose fault is that? Is that the blocking's fault? Is that the coaching? Is that the fact that they ran it back with the same offensive line with adding Josh Oliver? There are a lot of questions. And I do think once the season ends, we're going to have to talk a lot about the run game again.

I mean, can they bring in somebody? Do they have the right people in the building? Was the plan right, but they just didn't have Justin? There's a lot of questions there, but I think to feel more rhythmic, to feel like you don't have to hunt the explosive every time, it would really help to run the football, and they just haven't been able to. If they try to deploy Ty Chandler a different way this weekend,

it'll be pretty interesting to me to see if they do or don't do that. And in games that they have, boy, the ball moved up and down the field i mean against denver and against cincinnati yeah it was the turnovers that killed them uh in both of those games still but the the offense just really cooks when you've got somebody running ty chandler is the answer to me in the backfield but he can't do it all the been, I think, on a week-to-week basis, sometimes very good, sometimes not. Dalton Reisner has made it better as pass protection, but much worse in the run game.

Not the best mover. Right. So, yeah, how they deal with that is going to be a factor. But also, who would be surprised if against a Green Bay defense that has given up 2,000 yards rushing, if they walk into U.S. Bank Stadium and run for over 100. The other thing, and I mentioned around the league, but Kevin O'Connell obviously comes from the Los Angeles Rams,

and Matthew Stafford has gotten a ton of praise and credit for what he's done this year, as he should. Those games are such a joy to watch. But to me, part of the reason they have been so good offensively is what they've done in the run game. Kyron Williams, part of the reason they have been so good offensively is what they've done in the run game, Kyron Williams, but then the blocking the scheme. I mean, it helps when you have blocking wide receivers like Cooper cup and Puka Nakua. I mean, those guys have been huge in the blunt run blocking unit, but part of what they've done offensively and their kind of

resurgence this year, I think is a big credit to the run game. The statistics of when they have Kyron Williams and Matthew Stafford on the field are really good. So yeah, I mean, I know I've kind of taken us on a tangent a little bit, but to me, it's a very, it's not, maybe not the sexiest conversation, but it is important to talk about. No, I think that the whole discussion that has arisen out of the backup quarterbacks is, can you create a truly quarterback friendly offense? Because I think even from the minute that Kevin O'Connell got here was teaching the offense to Kirk cousins. There were times where the receivers were going, there's a lot going on here, bro. I mean, remember like even just the Jefferson going to week one is like, Oh, we'll

see. I mean, they had a training camp practice before the first game in 2022 where everybody was mad at each other and kirk threw a bunch of picks and like it took a while the first game was good but it took a while even in 2022 for cousins to adapt to this thing and i think it's become clear that they're not going to change the whole thing that they believe in this offense kevin o'connell believes that this offense works. And if you can't run it, that's a you problem, which is probably fine for a future quarterback, as long as that quarterback fits. But the running game, this is where they need a different coach in here because Kevin O'Connell does not understand how to run the football. And you

could point at this lineman or that lineman or whatever, but we watched a pretty poor offensive line over the years with Gary Kubiak, Kevin Stefanski, just run with success all the time. I think it's how well you understand it, how great of a feel you have for it as a play caller, when to ramp it up, when to have a two yard run and then run again. Because it seems like if you have a two yard run, they're just like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, enough of that crap. Let's move on. Let's throw it deep, which is okay. But I think that they need somebody to help him feel and understand the run game a little bit better because two years in a row of it looking like this, I think there's enough talent in the backfield where it shouldn't have been horrific.

It should have been okay, but not like horrendous. Um, so anyway, how much that helps Jaron Hall over the final two games? Hard to say. Let me ask you one more question, which is Justin Jefferson and his part of all of this. What we know is that Justin Jefferson could win this football game by himself. Good player. We are aware of that.

Yes. It's a talented player. Watching back. The tape is like watching LeBron James. It's just like, should, should he have caught that? No.

Should he have made that play on the fumble? Absolutely not. He outran like three dudes for that and dove full out third and 27. Who cares? He'll just make a play. It's absurd to watch, but the future is a discussion here. Personally, I think that Justin Jefferson won't have a whole lot to do with what they do at quarterback. Uh, because I think that they have their plan. They have their price on Kirk. That's either going to happen or it's not. And with Jefferson, look, I it's so advantageous to sign an extension that if you were like, no, I'm not signing an extension because we drafted Michael Pennix, you'd be a complete fool. Like you have to think about your future money wise. And if you get franchise tag, then what are you going to do?

But how much influence do you think he should have in that decision over quarterback? How much does Jaron Hall play into this? Probably not a whole lot. Where do you think he stands with his general feeling about this organization, his future and the quarterback situation? There's a lot here and answer it all in 12 seconds. It's a very valid discussion. Thank you. Um, no, Justin. Um, I mean, obviously Sunday night after the game, he was asked like, what, what, I mean, does this give you a better appreciation for Kirk playing with these

bad quarterbacks? And I don't, he, he was essentially like, it doesn't give me a better appreciation because I've always appreciated Kirk. So I think it hopefully gives the world an understanding of what Kirk is capable of. Then, uh, Wednesday, I believe it's Thursday. So yesterday, Wednesday, he was asked, uh, more like about it all. And he said like, look, I've always, I ride for Kirk. I appreciate his energy. People don't see the leader he is in the building. And all that, to me, is very profound. I think it's important. Justin definitely loves Kirk. He supports Kirk.

To me, he appreciates what Kirk has done for him, the ball placement, all that stuff. And that's great. And do I think he should have a say in it? Yeah, of course. But to your point, do I think the money tag and what that's going to ultimately look like will probably dictate most everything? Yes. I mean, we can talk about Justin's preference and what he wants and we should, and he is that good of a

player where he should have a say in this stuff. That is my opinion. But in general, I mean, if, if there are seven teams looking for a quarterback and it's the Patriots, it's the Steelers, it's the Raiders, it's the Broncos, it's the, the commanders and the, and one team, it's the Falcons and one team's willing to pay him a guaranteed deal worth 40 million a year for multiple years. That's a lot to commit with all the holes on the roster that already exist. And so ultimately for as much say as, as Justin, I think should have, you have to be realistic with it. And the other thing I will say is, and this is just my impression. He has never been a guy. I mean, he's played this whole year, even without the extension. So he's never been a guy who has

like put a line in the sand and said, this is, I mean, he loves competing and he's also not been a guy who has not been, I mean, he's been a great teammate. He's been willing to, to work with multiple guys. He's been supportive of Nick Mullins, Jaron Hall through all of this. And so if you, he has a great relationship with Kevin O'Connell. Um, if you were to come to him and explain the situation, have him watch film, like he's aware enough to probably understand it. If you talk to him about the money, he's aware enough to understand it. So that, that to me is where the conversation begins and ends is what, what is the market going to look like and how realistic does that make it with the amount of holes that this team ultimately has. Well, and after Jaron Hall wins, these two games goes into

Dallas beats the Cowboys and goes to the NFC championship course, then we'll know who the quarterback is next year. So we'll see if that ends up happening. I just wanted to add that we put Jefferson in an awkward position by being like, so what do you think about Kirk and his contract thing? Do you have something to say? Right? Like, you know, it's, it's not an unfair line of of questioning but he has to kind of like walk that line of he doesn't want to insult the front office that didn't extend kirk he also doesn't want to insult kirk because he's been a huge part of his success over his career so and to his credit he he handled it to me he does as well as i would have expected him to handle it which is impressive like he's 24, I think. I mean, and he's answering these questions that, again, are going to be construed in all sorts of ways. Right.

So maybe it's ridiculous of me to be like, man, great job of him. But I mean, really, it is. And you're exactly right. It's a tough situation to put on the shoulders of a 24-year-old who has given everything for his team right now. Yeah. I mean, we could do a whole other show about all the things of Jefferson and how he's handled superstardom. on a shoulders of a 24 year old who was giving everything for his team right now yeah i mean we could do a whole other show about all the things of jefferson and how he's handled superstardom

that kind of blow me away but this year even that as well that was why when i think it was adam schefter put it out there like oh that might be the last we see him when he got the hamstring injury he's like no he's he's gonna come back and play and he's gonna fight all the way until out of the playoffs like this guy and he's gonna to come back and play and he's going to fight all the way until out of the playoffs. Like this guy. And he's going to risk his body. I mean, like the fumble recovery that you mentioned. And I mean, I don't know if people have access to.

But if you go back and watch that on that last day, that is the encapsulation of what this guy is internally. So you wonder, man, how does a guy get so like, obviously, there's the natural ability. There's and again, we're going on and on there. mean there's this parenting the family but all that but there is like that piece inside him that makes you think of the jordan looking at the ipad and shaking it i mean there's stuff like that with him that i know that's lofty praise but that just i've thought about a lot as i've since i've been here that play is so special that's one where i called the wife in the in the office you gotta see this because because it wasn't just see i i think i my reaction and this is how i am is like you got your dr pepper well yeah that's that's exactly it that's why i mean uh like when i play pickup basketball or something if a teammate of mine turns the ball

over i'm like come on what are you doing like i'll stand there and throw my arms up and be mad at them. Justin Jefferson. It was just the automatic reaction with zero hesitation to fly at that football with no regard for his body whatsoever. And then on the next play, he goes third 27 and converts. So it's like, this guy is going to compete no matter what. So I think that just in general with Jaron Hall, number one, Jefferson gives them a chance to win the game, period. He wants to light up the Packers Sunday night football. He wants to remind everybody who the top receiver in the league is. That adds intrigue.

And for the future, I think he will go with what they want if he gets his extension set up and whether it's Kirk or not he's going to try to make the most out of that and then if it's a problem later it will be down the road so I don't think that the Minnesota freak out because people have seen their stars leave so many times is quite justified uh just yet he loves these primetime games too oh yeah I mean he these national everybody yeah I mean of course it yeah I, I said this to you guys walking in the hallway, but like, yeah, don't know what Jaren's going to be. Like on my New Year's Eve, I mean, usually you go out,

you're with friends, you don't know what's going to happen. I'm just speaking for myself. Now I'm going with my friends at U.S. Bank Stadium and I get to watch Jaren Hall. No, it should be entertaining. It absolutely should. And guess what? If you watch this live on YouTube, this is where we'll be.

It'll be Dane Mizutani next to me in the U.S. Bank Stadium press box on New Year's Eve late at night. What better to do than watch a postgame podcast? Right. I can't imagine anybody spending their New Year's Eve any different. Right. Exactly. Where would you rather be? At the bar.

You just have it listen to put in the little earbuds right marv levy once said where would you rather be than right here right now and that's what you're going to say when you watch the post game show after the game yeah uh but thank you all of you for showing up a huge crowd here to the reaction of jaron hall starting against green bay so i appreciate everybody watching slash listening. And if you haven't subscribed to the channel and you're new, well, welcome and please do that. And Alec Lewis, read his work at the athletic. I'm sure it will be a tremendous reaction to Jaron Hall getting the starting job and we will catch you all later. Thanks everybody.