Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Emergency Podcast: The Vikings fire defensive coordinator Ed Donatell

Episode Date: January 20, 2023

Matthew Coller talks about the firing of defensive coordinator Ed Donatell and answers fan questions about what's next for the Vikings organization Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Purple Insider is presented by Liquid Death, delicious water that's bringing death to plastic. Learn more at liquiddeath.com slash insider. Hey everybody, welcome to an emergency Purple Insider podcast. Matthew Collar, Roland Solo here, also streaming on YouTube. So if you guys watching have questions, then I would be happy to answer them. And it is an emergency podcast because the Minnesota Vikings have fired defensive coordinator Ed Donatell. And I know that this is something that was expected after the way that they performed throughout this season, but still a significant move for the organization to change out their defensive coordinator. Now, I think that the question we asked all season long was, is it the defensive coordinator or is it the players and

when we looked at the roster and we went through the names and we went through past performances it was just very hard to come to the conclusion that the scheme was a fit or the scheme was taught properly or that they were you know molding things to the players that they had and I think that that to me has always been the sign of a good coordinator or or a good scheming coach which is do you find ways to make all the puzzle pieces fit and when you go player by player there were a few guys who had great seasons. Patrick Peterson certainly did. Danielle Hunter, of course, did after getting used to the system a little bit. Zedarius Smith's first half of the season and a little bit into the second half was very solid. In fact, at one

point, he was leading the whole NFL in pressures, but there were far too many players that just did not fit at all. And Eric Hendricks was really at the top of that list. And Harrison Smith was at the top of that list. And I think that had the Vikings started to get it together midway through the season and start to find where they fit, which we have seen in the past. I remember when the Kansas City Chiefs had, I think it was Steve Spagnuolo when he first got there and they struggled at first defensively. And then as the season went along, they got better and better, and they started to figure out what everyone did well, where everyone fit, and then improved toward the end of the

season and went on to have a Super Bowl caliber defense to go along with Patrick Mahomes, of course. But here, we did not see that. And in looking at it on paper a lot through whatever statistics we have, the PFF, pro football reference, what we didn't see is very much change outside of a little bit more blitzing. But some of that could have been attributed just to they blitzed a lot against the Indianapolis Colts because they were way down in the game. And even when things did work, they didn't carry it over. They didn't change the coverages a lot. They talked about over and over wanting to be tighter in coverage.

That was the word that they use. You want to be tighter. We want to be tighter. And yet in the biggest moment of the game against the Giants, and of course, Darius Slayton dropped the ball. But in the biggest moment of the game, Darius Slayton, the best wide receiver on the Giants team, was running wide open. And he could have easily gotten a first down and just ended the game there. And then we would have never had the check down on fourth and eight. But that to me was the last straw. I mean, of course, the whole game and allowing the Giants to move up and down the field, a team that you already faced, which I think made it more egregious. You already know what they do well. You already know that Daniel Jones has the capability to run.

You already know how they use these wide receivers that maybe the last time you had never seen some of those receivers before, like Slayton and like Isaiah Hodgins, who's really emerged. And I mean, the last time they couldn't slow down Saquon Barkley, and this time they couldn't either. So having been out-schemed after seeing the same coach and the same team just a few weeks previous, I think was the final straw if there was any debate of whether it was Ed Donatel or the players. And of course that doesn't let the players off the hook. They still need some

big changes, but something that really stuck out to me through the year was just how many players on this defense had the worst years of their careers statistically. And one of them was Chandon Sullivan. And I'll look this up while we're talking, but I was amazed when they signed Chandon Sullivan, I thought, well, this should be an okay signing, like probably not anything really special, but I think the guy is fine. And when you looked up his numbers in the past, they were like totally okay. I'm going to pull them up right now. When he was playing for the Green Bay Packers, he had passer ratings against in 2020 and 2021 of 91.3 and 91.9. This year, 107.8 and allowed 75 receptions, which was the most of anyone as far as slot cornerbacks go. Things like that were just all over this defense. Harrison Smith barely ever

pressuring the quarterback, not lining up in the box very often. And again, where maybe they had found things in certain parts of games and then just didn't carry them over. So I'll pull up Harrison Smith here, but I was like almost encouraged a little bit by the usage of Harrison Smith against the Indianapolis Colts. And I know it's the Colts, but specifically in that game, he rushed the passer four times, which was a season high and kind of reflective of what he had done in the past. And this is according to PFF. And he lined up in the box almost 50% of the time in that game. And then it didn't happen throughout the rest of the season after that.

It didn't happen in Green Bay, and it didn't happen against the New York Giants all that often. So, you know, I think that what you saw was a very inconsistent approach from week in to week out. We never saw them really create any sort of identity. They couldn't get after the passer outside of two players. They couldn't really cover anybody. And to make matters worse, when you look at the opposing quarterback schedule and how very mediocre quarterbacks played, and I guess I thought Daniel Jones fell under the category of a mediocre quarterback, but they made him look like a star quarterback and may have earned him a heck of a lot of money. So, you know, him, Mike White, Andy Dalton, you could go up and down the list.

Even Teddy Bridgewater, of course, you know, had a huge day against them as well and put up a ton of yards. And if not for a couple turnovers, maybe they would have lost that game. So they just, you know, they just never really had a solid defense from top to bottom that, you know, we thought you could trust on a weekly basis. And I think that it does tie back to the scheme and really too with Ed Donatel. On a weekly basis, I really wondered if he was listening to what he was being told to do. And I think that sometimes if someone is putting a good scheme in and you just don't have the players and you don't have the talent, you've got a ton of injuries. You could make the argument to me that you just need to add this, that, or the other thing. And it was brought up to me the other day by someone that even Vic Fangio, when he first arrived in Chicago, their first year's defense was not very

good because they needed players. And once they got Khalil Mack, all of a sudden, everybody wanted to play the Fangio defense. And I understand that, but with this, it felt like there were times where Kevin O'Connell, even through us and through press conferences in the media was saying like, yeah, we know we've been talking about doing this and that. And then we would go out the next week and not really see it. And there was a press conference after the Detroit game where it felt like it was really getting to be pretty dark with the defense. They couldn't stop Jared Goff at all. Detroit threw the ball all over them. And Ed Donatell was getting a lot of attention for this,

getting grilled for this. And he was asked, is it the scheme or is it the execution? Which really points to, is it the players? And he said, I leaned more toward that it's the execution. And to me, that was probably the moment right there that he would want to rewind and have a different answer for that. Because normally I think it's better as a coaching staff if you put something like that on yourself. And you talk about like what you can do better and look in the mirror. But when somebody says, yeah, no, it's actually the execution and it's the players, then that's pretty much the death knell right there, unless there was big improvement. And Kevin Seifert of ESPN had a tweet the other day about where the Vikings defense stood in the rest of the league in terms of, you know, yards, points, pressure rate after that

conversation with Donatello where they were supposedly going to make big changes. And the answer was 27, 25th, 23rd, you know, like one of the worst defenses in the league. And that's even including playing the Chicago Bears who had Nathan Peterman and Tim Boyle. So this is a step forward for them to look for a new defensive coordinator. And I have not yet researched, as this just happened two seconds ago, going live here to record this emergency podcast, have not looked at all the different candidates whose names are getting thrown out there a lot.

I know that in the comments section from Chris mentions Jim Leonard, who is very highly thought of throughout college football and was a longtime player under Rex Ryan. And when he played under Rex Ryan was known as one of the smartest players in the entire NFL, that sort of everything went through him with some of those great Jets defenses. So that's got to be a consideration. I also think they have to decide who they want to be and what type of defense they want to play, because clearly they believe that the Vic Fangio style is the right way to do things. And they talked to the ends of the earth before the season about how playing two deep

safeties and not being all that aggressive and trying to keep everything in front of you. That was the way to do it. That it was let them have 10 play drives or 12 play drives. And we'll know that they'll make a mistake at some point. And way too often they didn't. And, and there were times where they,

you know, they forced teams to kick field goals in the red zone and things like that. But ultimately, there were way too many times where they didn't. And they didn't end with a great red zone defense. It was just okay. They didn't end with a great third down defense. It was just okay. And so it was really a couple of plays here or there that bailed them out to even keep them as a serviceable defense that could win games. But I think we all had the sense that it was a house of cards that was eventually going to come down. So now they have to decide, was it right to have that type of system? And do you want to look to hire someone from that type of system that's just not Ed Donatell?

Or do you want to go with a completely different system? And I think that would be difficult, but it really depends on what players you're going to have. And I think in this case, because there's so many possibilities with the roster, they can really decide what they think is the best way to go. And Alex in the comments asks about, you know, the front office looking at, you know, Eric Kendricks and Jordan Hicks and Harrison Smith and potentially moving on from them. And I think it's a very real possibility that we are talking about a completely different roster to work around with this defense and they can go into free agency and decide which players are fits because this is another point when they brought

in the Fangio defense they might be right that it's working around the NFL that it is like the scheme du jour in the league but the roster on defense was largely put together by people who played a four, three and I, and three, four, four, three is a little bit, you know, ambiguous. And sometimes, you know, we overblow that. And Kevin O'Connell talked about it in his press conference the other day about how, you know, when you talk about three, four, it's only whatever, 25% of the plays that they're in an actual base defense. So there aren't massive differences, but there is a huge difference in playing the two deep safeties all the time, playing the corners and off coverage, playing a lot of zones with

the linebackers. Whereas Mike Zimmer used to really like to play man coverage with his linebackers and line up Eric Hendricks, even sometimes on a receiver, but a tight end or get Eric Hendricks on a running back out of the backfield. And something that I noticed, especially against the Giants was Eric Hendricks would be going backwards first. So he'd be dropping back, dropping back, and then they could throw it to Saquon Barkley out of the backfield almost anytime they wanted. And then he could dodge a tackler and get 10 yards. In the past, that was one of the best things they did. If teams wanted easy completions against Zimmer's defense, this

is even when they were not good. As long as they had Anthony Barr and Eric Kendricks, it was not easy to do where they would check it down to a running back and Barr or Kendricks would be already there attacking that player. But instead they were asking Kendricks to go back, sit in a zone. And I don't know if that was really the best solution play after play after play. And the lack of blitzing,

certainly when you look at last year, what Zimmer did, and I'm not saying that they had a good defense last year. They did not. They did not. But they had more talent on this defense than they did last year after Everson Griffin and Daniil Hunter were not in is really when the wheels came apart. But one of the things that they did was they created a lot of sacks and a lot of interceptions, a lot of negative plays for the offense that kept them in a lot of games. And they played the same number of close games as they did. And it was done with a little more aggressive approach. So the fact that they never really became a hyper-aggressive defense

to make up for some of the shortages in coverage and talent and just seemed to play the same way week after week. And maybe Ed Donatell himself could show me some X's and O's and say, well, we adjusted this or adjusted that, but the results continue to be the same. And Phil mentions in the comments that there were no adjustments. And I guess what I would say is the adjustments always came too late, that an offense would be moving the ball against them. And then finally we would get to a big moment and they would send something a little different, a pressure or a little bit of a different coverage. And you would see that was how they came through in a couple of big moments. But for the most part, that was what they had to rely on all year was basically Zedarius Smith, Patrick Peterson, Harrison Smith, or Daniil Hunter making a big play at the biggest time because play after play, opposing offenses had really no problem moving the ball against the Minnesota Vikings defense. And therefore

they decided they had to make a change. It's asked in the comments, how did the players feel? Well, I'm sure that after the players heard Ed Donatell say it was the execution and not the scheme that they didn't feel very good about that. And, you know, I don't want to be an internet sleuth or anything. I think it's kind of weird of, you know, like when it comes to what players favorite on Instagram and things like that. But there was, there was a couple of little nuggets, I guess you could say from players, social media actions that they knew that this scheme was not working and that their defensive coordinator wasn't helping. And so I think that there's plenty of reason to look at both the front office and how the

defense was constructed and Ed Donatel and his system. But maybe if they could go back, one of the things that they would regret is bringing in someone who hadn't been a defensive coordinator for a while. And even though he had been, or not calling the plays for a while, even though he had been in the action, Donatello hadn't been in command of the entire ship as he had been working under Vic Fangio in quite some time. And I think that that might've hurt him. But I also looked at the Los Angeles Chargers in their first year with Brandon Staley, who runs the same system and also comes from the Fangio tree. And I noticed that the Chargers last year in Brandon Staley's first year,

they were also horrendous on defense. And I wonder if there's a transition period that teams have to go through, whether it's the players or the scheme or both of those things, before they can be comfortable with a system that is completely different. A good question from Dante, if they go back to 4-3, would they keep Kendricks? That is a really tough one. That's a really tough one because Kendricks is an excellent player. I still think that he has capability, but it's also, and he's got an excellent career as a Minnesota Viking, but there may be a step loss there at this point. And if you look at

linebackers over the age of 30, it's hard to find a lot of them that continue to really thrive after 30, 31, 32. And the hard part is that if you looked at his salary cap hit, they could create a ton of space by moving on from him. And that's probably what they have to do because they are in salary cap hell. This is going to be a major challenge too of going out and hiring a defensive coordinator and uh i'll maybe make the counterpoints to firing donatelle in just a second i mean it's the right move to make but if you're going to make a counterpoint one would just be that when they put together the defense as far as their uh their players here that they didn't find the right

players for him and for the system and some of the guys just aren't as good as their players here, that they didn't find the right players for him and for the system. And some of the guys just aren't as good as they used to be. And I think Kendricks falls under that category. He can still play. I don't think that he should retire, but if you're talking about how much you're paying for Eric Kendricks versus what he was able to give you,

then I don't know if those two things will match up in the future, even if they're going back to a different scheme. Michael wants to hire Lovie Smith. I would have to look into how Lovie Smith operated this year in Houston. I thought that, you know, the Texans actually kind of played hard this year, but again, that's another defense that didn't have a whole heck of a lot of talent and didn't win a whole heck of a lot of games. So I don't know if they're going to go with someone who's on the older side. Normally, this is what happens when it comes to hiring a new coordinator

or a new head coach is whatever you just had, they'll go the opposite of that. So if you just like with Zimmer, you had an older defensive head coach who was very hard on the players. So who were they always going to hire? A younger head coach who was more of a player's coach and was on the offensive side. So I kind of look at that this way. And I don't know, again, if they're going to change systems or if Kevin O'Connell fundamentally believes that this is the right way to play on defense and they're going to go out and get a similar system and just try to coach it better. I don't know which one of those things they're going to do. And Amir brings up Daniel Bullocks

of the 49ers. Yeah, there's a few teams who clearly get it when it comes to defense, there's no guarantee that anybody off of a staff is just going to automatically work out. But I mean, how about Buffalo in the way that they've played defensively? They don't have the most talent on that team, but they've certainly made a lot out of it. Somebody off of that staff, San Francisco. I mean, there's a bunch of teams out there that have had success through years, not just like short term one season. And if you look at even like Los Angeles and I don't think they had an amazing defense this year, but they did two years ago, won the Super Bowl. Would there be anybody on Los Angeles's staff that they might look at as bringing in? Or could they even look to

the college ranks? And as Jim Leonard was brought up, I mean, I think that there's so many different type of options out there that they might want to go for, but it's got to be both though. They have to find somebody who really gets it, of course, and comes from a successful defense. I mean, Gerard Mayo has also been brought up from New England, and I think that he would be a good candidate to have a conversation with because, of course, Belichick and New England's defenses have always had success. And as long as you're not putting a New England Patriots guy as your head coach, you should be totally fine. But there's, I mean, it's hard to say right now

until we start getting some reports of what potential candidates will be out, like what names exactly. But I think that you have to look at the roster as something that can be controlled and how they're going to reshape that. Because if you put a similar roster out on the field, maybe this defense with a better

defensive coordinator who wasn't as stubborn about his system maybe their 20th instead of 28 was that going to be good enough to shut down San Francisco or Philadelphia had they ended up going there probably not I mean I think you really needed to have the personnel is what it often comes down to and I mean Pat Shermer it will always stick have the personnel is what it often comes down to. And I mean, Pat Shermer, it will always stick with me that he said it's the players, not the plays. And Pat Shermer was a great example of that because he had so much success in Minnesota, went to the Giants. They didn't have a good situation and failed. I mean, so you see, you know, even good coordinators that maybe if Donatello, you know, of course he should have

done more. I'm not saying he shouldn't have, but maybe if Donatello had the 2018 Vikings roster on defense, we would be talking about something totally different. And that's usually the case, but that that's not to say that the scheme was right because way too many people were running wide open. murder your thirst and kill plastic pollution, which does seem aggressive, but that's their mission. And they are donating 10% of profits to help reduce plastic pollution. The problem is that plastic water bottles often aren't recyclable because they're not profitable to recycle. Whereas aluminum cans can be turned into profit. Liquid Death sent me some cases and their water and their sparkling lime are both delicious. And maybe I'll have to start pounding them in front We'll be right back. Thor locator tool at liquid death.com slash insider. That's liquid death.com slash insider.

This question from the zing, what's a bigger issue on defense, regardless of scheme edge rusher or cornerback. Yeah. I think the, the defensive backfield in general was a huge problem that, you know, the dairy Smith and Daniil Hunter, it was kind of like

Z'Darrius carried the first half of the season, Daniil carried the second. So I'm not sure that edge rusher is something they need, but it depends on kind of how those contracts work out and will they sign Hunter to a long-term extension. I assume that they'll, that they're going to try. Um, but I don't know if he wants to sign a long-term extension or if he wants a big change or, you know, Daniil is a very quiet guy. It's really hard to ever say what's going on in his mind, but assuming that they want to bring back Daniil Hunter, Zedaria Smith is under contract still for next year. That's, you know, those two guys, I think will be fine. And they're going to develop Patrick Jones. They could definitely use more situational rushing though, because when those guys went out and there was, you know, DJ Juan and Patrick Jones coming in, it was a big drop-off. And that's why

situational rushers are kind of around the league. Somebody who's like 32 years old and they come in. So that's probably a want rather than a need that's going to be tough. But when you look at the defensive backfield, Patrick Peterson, they're by far best corner. And what's crazy is if, if Patrick Peterson had even been just okay, imagine how bad this whole thing would have been. He was great this season by PFF grade, by the PBUs interceptions targeted quarterback rating against his numbers were matching up this year against some of the best corners in the league. It's not even that different from like Sauce Gardner, Patrick Sertain. And I know that there's a little bit of a different role with those guys, but Peterson was the one guy that actually really fit well in

this defense. And now he's not going to be on the team next year, more likely than not. I mean, it's possible that he is, it's possible that he likes Kevin O'Connell and wants to come back. And he said on his podcast that he was interested in coming back, but I wouldn't expect him to close the door on any options. And,

you know, regardless right at the end of the season, I don't think he's going to go on and say, see you guys. But if Peterson gets a bigger offer and they can't match it after the way that he just played, then, you know, he's not going to be back. And then you're left with Channing Sullivan really can't be the nickel corner again. So it's Andrew Booth Jr. Caleb Evans is coming off three concussions. But he talked about feeling better

toward the end of the season in the final locker room. But you got a Caleb Evans and Andrew Booth Jr., Cam Dantzler, I will see it really didn't feel like they liked what they saw from Cam Dantzler as the season went along. I mean, there's a lot of emptiness there in the defensive backfield. Of course, Duke Shelley, who I liked how he played. I mean, there's a lot of emptiness there in the defensive backfield. Of course, Duke Shelley, who I liked how he played. I really liked how he played, but I don't know if Duke Shelley's a guy that you can really count on as somebody who's going to be a starter there. I like the idea from C-Fix in the comments about Duke Shelley is potentially a nickel, but I think where he's the best is probably just as a backup. And

that's not to diss him. I mean, that's a compliment is somebody who can come off the bench and play well, but you know, just based on his size and things like that, he's more of a backup, but you could see him maybe transitioning into nickel. That doesn't exactly inspire a ton of confidence, though, if you're talking about unproven corners all across and maybe a guy changing a position or something. You know, I think that that's that is really a big issue. And with the other part of it, too, is, you know, Brian mentions Lewis Seen as well and Andrew Booth Jr. But we don't really know about Lewis Seen. As far as his progress goes, he talked to us maybe six weeks ago, said he was feeling well. I mean, we've seen him around the facility, but his leg issue was very serious. I don't know if he can start the next season

or that even if he does have a full training camp, if he's going to be good enough. This year he started fourth on the depth chart behind Josh Metellus. So are you continuing to start Cam Bynum? Are you having Metellus consideration? Is Seen going to be back? There is so many types of different options on the roster and questions on the roster that the next person is going to have to face. Let's see from Alex is a coordinator from a different team making a lateral move without a promotion, a likely scenario. I don't think so. I don't think that a defensive coordinator from another team, because I know Denver's defensive coordinator has been talked about. And so that's a guy worth looking at. I forget his name. I'm sorry if you have it in the comments, tell me. But Denver's defensive coordinator might get let go once they

hire a new head coach. So that's very possible as well, that if there's somebody in one of these head coaching openings that gets let go, that the Vikings can start to look at those guys. And that's very possible. All right. So why aren't people talking about Rex Ryan? I think that Rex Ryan's time. Oh yeah. Evero. That's right. I think Rex Ryan's time is probably done in the NFL and he's good for, he's good for TV. You know, he's got lots of hot takes and things like that. So let's see, there was a question about Daniil Hunter. Let me scroll back up real quick here from Ben trade Hunter and Smith get some draft capital. Daniil Hunter is a hard one to make a decision on because I think what you saw this year is just how defenses are the weak link system. And I know we talk about that

all the time, but it really is true because Daniil Hunter could not have played much better down the stretch than he did. And I'll pull this up right now of where he ranked at the end of the year in total pressures. But I thought that he was spectacular down the stretch at creating pressure. He got a good number of sacks once he started to get comfortable with the system and so forth. Yeah, he ended up tied for sixth in the entire NFL in pressures. And yet the defense couldn't really do a whole lot because even if you get 70 pressures over a year, think about what that is for a game. And it's not the edge rushing isn't important. It most

certainly is, but it's not more important than the entire coverage unit, than the linebackers and the safeties and corners all together, which I think we really saw. And even though Daniil Hunter was really good and Zedaria Smith overall had a very good season, what we saw was that they still only pressured the quarterback like 25 or 30% of the time. They were, I think, 22nd or 23rd in quarterback pressures. So does it make sense to move someone like Daniil Hunter in a trade, as painful as that would be for everyone because he's a great player

and he's been a great Viking, to try to get more players? I think that they have to have everything on the table when it comes to this, because they're just so short when you go position by position, which we can. We've got time. I'm not busy. I'm not getting ready to cover a playoff game, unfortunately. So we can go through the positions and what they'll have to do there. From Jose, here we go again. Let's scapegoat a DC and leave slow players on the roster. Yeah. And you know, that is one part of it. Uh, and I think that there's enough reason to say that the scheme was problematic and Donatello, I don't want to say for sure that he was insubordinate. I think that's an

aggressive word, but Kevin O'Connell certainly wanted changes from him. And I don't think there were enough changes. So I can't say that he was doing a good job and we didn't see the adaptation when they played the giants again, and we didn't see the aggressiveness that was necessary. And we did see players falling off from where they had been in the past. So there's a lot of evidence that stacks up against the defensive coordinator when they make a move like this. But to your point, it's right though in that it's always the players and somebody has to fall on the sword when you lose the way that you do. I think that that is one thing that is always going to be impossible to parse out because maybe it is the fact that Harrison Smith wasn't as quick as he was in the past.

And maybe it is that Eric Kendricks wasn't as quick as he was in the past. And some of the other guys, too, like Channing Sullivan, maybe it wasn't as good as some of his numbers looked in Green Bay because they had other guys who were very good. And, you know, a Duke Shelley or a Cam Bynum, like those guys are in over their head. Those guys are more likely career backups, and they're being asked to start every game and play every single play. I think Cam Bynum is a very intelligent player who will have a long career in the NFL, but he played every single play. Is that something that you'd really have ideally?

Probably not in that position. So let's see. What's the trade value of a defensive back relative to wide receiver? Could you see Kweisi trying to offload Thielen's contract via trade for a veteran defensive back. He has a $19 million cap hit next year. Yeah, I mean, that's the Thielen issue, I think, became a little bit more interesting after some of his wife's comments on social media.

I would have expected going into next year, would have until just the other day, that they would have just moved some money because they can lower his cap hit by exchanging some money down to, I think around 11 million. And when you compare his production this year to receivers who make $11 million, that's really not that bad. I mean, that's, that's about ballpark for what receivers make, who are the wide receiver two or three, and they're good at their jobs. But after it was kind of put out there that he might not be pleased with his role or his opportunities as it was put, then I think they have to look for

some phone calls and see if there's anything out there, but trading player for player is tough. It's not impossible, but it is tough because if you're looking for someone who's going to be an upgraded defensive back, my question is always, why would anyone else want to give you a good defensive back? I mean, when you think about how few good defensive backs there are and look at the Vikings after losing Xavier Rhodes and Mackenzie Alexander and Trey Waynes, the merry go round of people that they've had, that would be a fun trivia question or a horrible trivia question for your friends is look up all the defensive backs that the Vikings have run out

there since 2020 and all the names that they've had. I mean, you know, guys like Chris Jones, Harrison Hand, Chris Boyd got a ton of playing time in years past. And then this year, Duke Shelley would be probably the trivia question. So, you know, I think that that's always going to be a major part of it is if you don't have the players, you're not going to succeed, but someone has to be responsible. When they talk about accountability, you can't say someone's going to be accountable if we don't succeed and then have the performance they did against the Giants and finish 28th and then be like, well, everybody's coming back. It just can't work that way. That's football. That's why people get fired all the time,

even if they're good at their jobs. I don't think Ed Donatel is fit for this role anymore at this moment. Maybe a supporting role because he understands the ins and outs of the scheme so well, but actually running it, actually calling the plays, installing it, maybe that's just not his thing anymore from what we saw this year. But somebody has to be responsible. Otherwise, you can't sell in the future that there's going to be accountability. Otherwise, it just becomes kind of a buzzword.

And even throughout this season, I thought they are lacking in accountability when it came to the defense. So let's see. Do I think that the defense gets the majority of the focus in free agency after they create cap space? I think it has to, right? I mean, yeah, they're going to create cap space in the draft, only having a first round pick and no second, which like you'd take TJ Hawkinson for a second all day long for the future.

Hawkinson's a tremendous player. So, you know, no, no questions there. But it has to, when it comes to the positions that they need to replace, let's go through them. So let's just assume that Zedarius Smith and Daniil Hunter are back. When you look at defensive tackle, Delvin Tomlinson is a free agent. And so they've got Harrison Phillips and Kyrus Tonga was a nice player, but those two guys are both run stuffers. They're not penetrating defensive tackles. They have Ross Blacklock under contract.

He did nothing this year after they traded for him. That was a very ineffective trade. And maybe they think that he can develop next year, but I mean, he has a pretty big sample size of not being that good in the NFL. Jonathan Bullard, I don't know if he's under contract for next year, but it's not a really deep group at defensive tackle. So they're going to need somebody. And in particular, they should look for someone who can get after the passer

a little bit as a defensive tackle. Tomlinson was doing it early in the season. Then he had that calf issue, and we didn't see it a whole lot after that. Linebacker, I would assume Brian Asamoah is going to be the starter, and both Jordan Hicks and Eric Hendricks will not be on the team next year. I don't know that for sure about Eric Hendricks, but I think Jordan Hicks is a pretty safe bet, especially since they started taking him off the field a lot later in the season

and getting Brian Asamoah a lot later in the season and getting Brian Asamoah a lot of playing time. So I would assume that Asamoah is a starter and then someone else at the cornerback position. They need a veteran. They cannot just roll with Dantzler and Caleb Evans and wait, is Dantzler a free agent? I'd have to check on that. He was drafted in what, 2020, which would make him, no, he's still, he's still on the team. So, you know, they clearly didn't love what they saw. Some things from Dantzler, he was banged up again, and he's had multiple injuries throughout his career. And, you know, that at the safety position, I think they're really hoping that Louis seen comes back, but I don't know what they do with Harrison Smith because there's a guy who's very expensive and that they didn't really use all that effectively.

KMAC 850 says the scheme was bad, but some of the personnel was also just bad, old and slow, getting faster, even if the players are not as instinctive, should be a net positive. I totally agree. I totally agree. I think that it wasn't just that they were old. It was that they were old and they were on the field a lot. The interesting thing about football is that offense and defense tend to impact each other. And the Vikings offense was very boom or bust. So what we saw from them this year was they would score right away on an opening drive and they would get ahead a little bit in the second quarter and then they would have this third quarter where they punted three times and then come back

at the end of the fourth quarter and then the game would be tied and we'd be going to overtime or something and you look up at the end of the game and you have 85 plays for the defense. Week after week of that of 85, 90 plays, 75 plays, it's just going to wear down any defense, that accumulation over a season. And then when you're talking about players who are older, a lot of them, it's really going to add up. So I think that youth in general, and this goes back to the last off season, I think that we can tie Ed Donatell's firing to the last offseason and wonder about that idea of keeping around some of these players who you could have projected in the future to maybe not be the same versions of themselves that you know someone like Patrick Peterson I would not have projected the season

he had but Harrison Smith Eric Kendrick's two Jordan Hicks, of guys that were in their 30s. And once you're there, it's really hard to say if and when someone is going to fall off. And we got that from all of them. So projecting some of these players to be the same versions of themselves maybe was a mistake. And if they had played some of the younger defenders, would it have been different? And I'm not saying that Troy Dye is somebody that they should have rolled with because when he got in games, it wasn't all that impressive. But if it was Troy Dye and Brian Asamoah at linebacker, would it have been different? Probably not. I mean, there was just so few plays made by the linebackers this year that maybe it would

have been a little bit better just because they were younger. Let's see from Red Star, Minnesota, who's the Vikings starting running back next year? I guess I would say at this moment, it's Ty Chandler, but a lot of times in free agency, there's just several guys who have decent careers that have been built up over the years that aren't like a number one starters. I think it'll be a bit of a committee, but Chandler is probably the guy. I would be surprised if Delvin Cook is back because he did not play very well this year overall. And his yards per carry really dropped off in the second half of

the season, probably age. After his 100-yard game against Buffalo, which 81 came on one play, he only averaged 3.5 yards a carry the rest of the season. That's really just not good enough, and it's not worth paying, and they can create a good amount of cap space if they move on from him. And if they June 1st, then I think it's even more cap space in the immediate. So I think they'll move on from him. I doubt that they'll bring back Alexander Madison. He is a free agent after this year. And I would guess that somebody somewhere else decides that they want to sign him and he's a good fit. Them not using Alexander Madison in the second half of the season is probably a bit regrettable when they look back.

So I think it will be Ty Chandler, Kenny Wong Wu, and a veteran player that goes along with them. Let's see, who did not know this was coming when it comes to Ed Donatel? Yeah, I know. And I think that the team probably should have just made the announcement as they were speaking at the podium. And so they could have maybe answered some questions about that, but you know, they decided to wait another day and move on from Ed Donatell. Jonathan says Jalen Ramsey to the Vikings. Well, I mean,

that's the decision they're going to have to make, right? Do they try to get younger, or do they try to go out and do the same thing over again? If it were me, I would bring in somebody young-ish as the defensive coordinator, and I would say, here's what you have. You have a lot of guys who haven't really played a ton. And that goes for Booth, Caleb Evans, Lewis Seen. And Lewis Seen is going to play no matter what. Like just he's the starter if he's healthy. And we got to make sure he's healthy first. And Asamoah and whoever else at linebacker.

And some of these guys who are good special teamers for you. These are your guys. This is who you have. And draft a couple of defensive players and then go. Because I think if you go around, what was the song? Don't go chasing waterfalls. Don't go chasing veteran free agent defensive players. Very similar song, I think, released in the 90s. But when you chase defensive veteran players, sometimes if it doesn't work out and you were really relying on that person, you just end up kind of lost. And I think that next year is going to have to be a transition year for the defense. And it's better if you find out who can play. If you get younger

guys into these positions, it's just better. It's just better for you long-term because then you know you've got because then you know you've got someone or you know that there's development potential within those players. So if you draft a rookie corner, you just play him. You just play Louis seen, you just play Andrew Booth Jr. If he could stay healthy, just play a Caleb Evans because it, I mean, it can be worse than it was this year, but not by a whole lot. I mean, they were 31st in yards against, they can't be a whole lot different. And i agree with the theory that just some youth and just some speed uh would be better um so uh the zing asks about drafting a quarterback in the

first round do i think that cousins would waive his no trade clause and ask for a trade or stick around to play his final year uh well, I mean, he's under contract, so I don't think that he would do a holdout or something and not get his money. He'll play if they don't sign him to an extension. It's just that, like, how much does he want to play in that point? Do you want the lame duck quarterback or would you rather just move on from him now if they're not going to decide to give him a long-term contract extension? So I think that you'd rather move on before that rather than just playing out a lame duck year when you're not going to be able to rebuild this whole team good enough to win the Super Bowl next year. It's just the reality,

and it's why it was such a gut punch to have this happen. It's also why when you go back and talk about Ed Donatell, if you were going to fire him now, you probably should have fired him in the middle of the season. When you look at the defensive staff, and this might be where the hire comes from, and I think that would be disappointing to people if it does. But they've got a lot of experience on the staff. Mike Smith, Mike Pettin, Greg Minuski was brought up. They have experienced people on the staff that could have taken over this defense midway through the season when we all knew that it was not working and that it was going to be their downfall

eventually. And that might be one of the things that they regret. If the 49ers lose in the playoffs because of Purdy, do they trade for Kirk? Now, I can't see that. I can't see how that would work. You know, they would probably want to go back to Trey Lance or, well, it won't be Jimmy Garoppolo unless they really don't like Trey Lance and what they've seen. Then, you know, I mean, maybe there would be some conversation about that, but I don't know. That's one I can't see. Hey, if they do that, if that happens and you called it, then you deserve huge credit for that one. But I think that those 49ers and Vikings and Kirk Cousins conversations have probably petered out. But I don't know.

Maybe there's some crazy world where they trade Cousins for Trey Lance or something. That would be a fit for both. I'll say that. It would be a fit for the Vikings looking for a future quarterback and for San Francisco looking for a win now quarterback with a, you know, clearly with, with a win now type of roster, that's been able to put a third stringer here at this point. O'Neill will make 19 million. He's the most Vikings tradable player. I don't think you can talk about trading someone like Brian O'Neill because he's a guy that could be a Viking

for life. He's somebody that is going to be here for quite a while. You know, when we talk about playing general manager, which is what we all enjoy doing once the off season hits, it's like, all right, get out over the cap.com and draft sim and all those things. Now, what we have to remember is that it's where they are and where they stand as a team. And I don't think you want to be pulling things from the team that are young ish. O'Neal is a veteran player, but he's got many years left. This is somebody who could probably with his athleticism play until he's 35 and you want him to be a Viking until he's 35. So don't get too crazy with trading away or wanting to trade away everyone that's good just because you're trying to reboot

the roster. And I think that that ties back in, in a way to the defense and to the defensive coordinator and to the timeline that you know, when it comes to the team's overall timeline, they cannot at this moment with Justin Jefferson and Christian Derrissaw and Brian O'Neill, they can't even really talk about tearing it all down and rebuilding. It's really just one side of the ball that they're going to have to make incremental improvements. And where the quarterback stands in this is kind of tricky,

but they might make the argument. I wouldn't be shocked if they made the argument that they had a top 10 offense already. And all they need to do is to get to the 15th best defense with a better scheme, younger players, and a couple of additions. I would not be shocked if that's in the building, what they're saying is they're pointing the finger at Donatello. We've, we got rid of the bad man. Now we're going to, and it was bad, no question about it. You know, get rid of the bad man and we're going to, you know, move on from him and we're going to rebuild this and that. And then all of a sudden, you know, we're going to be right back in the same position that we were now i think to a lot

of us that's a dubious conversation to have because this year the offense was almost 100 healthy i mean derrissaw missed a couple games uh bradbury missed a couple games and then o'neill at the end of the season um you know so you know, I think that being a hundred percent healthy played into their success as an offense, that if they get banged up, uh, at some point, you know, next year, then it's going to be harder. And if they play harder teams, it's going to be harder for the offense to repeat the same results. Um, maybe you could argue that if they run back the system, everyone will know it better. But if you move on from Thielen and the replacement for Thielen doesn't catch 70 passes on a hundred targets, it's going to be hard

to be just as good as they were this year. You just can't count on things being exactly the same. And we in the past have gone through that where the offense in 2019 was what I think eighth or seventh or something. And then they dropped back just a little bit in 2020 and ended up missing the playoffs. So I think that, you know, when we're talking about all these things, they have to be realistic with themselves and try to rebuild the defense in a, in a slower way, you know, through developing some players through the draft, rather than trying to go out and say this one player, and this was the mistake in 2020, this one player, this Yannick Ngakwe, this guy's going to save the defense.

Well, that wasn't really what happened. And they've been bad for years. It's just going to take a slower approach. Let's see, if you're keeping Daniil, then Zedarius is almost certainly gone. He's not a 4-3 linebacker. No, these things are not that different with 4-3 and 3-4 when it comes to the edge rushers, that any defensive coordinator could use Zedarius Smith. I think it would be fine because they're just using him as a defensive end is what they would call him and not as a linebacker. And you can still move a guy around on pass rush situations and things like that.

I don't think that the system changes much for the edge rushers. I think it really just depends on, you know, maybe how they think is the right way to go based on what's happening in the league. And it seemed that Kevin O'Connell really believed that the Vic Fangio style defense was the one to go with, like the most hyper modern type of system. And then that's why they brought it in. Now, in hindsight, it might not have been a good fit. And that's the thing too. And let's talk about that for a second, as we kind of just, you know, throw things out there. You know, in the past, what we did when it came to the offense's failings was we

pointed the finger at the head coach and we said, Hey, you know, Mike Zimmer, you screwed up with John D. Filippo and that hire and got it right. The next year was Stefanski, but then Stefanski leaves and it's Gary Kubiak. And then it's Clint Kubiak, which was probably not a good hire for someone who was inexperienced. And you go back even before that, the issue with Norv Turner and him being fired and Pat Schirmer being put in. And it was always this kind of volatile situation where if anybody succeeded, they were gone. And if anybody failed, then Mike Zimmer was going to fire them or get rid of them. And we thought that Zimmer had too much say when it came to the offense, that he was always demanding.

You got to run the ball more, run the ball more. want to put on Kevin O'Connell and Kweisi Adafo-Mensa for hiring somebody like Adonatel to bring in a completely new system when it didn't really fit the players. And then they had to say, all right, now, you know, someone like Harrison Smith or Eric Hendricks, your job is completely different from what it has been in the past. And I think we do have to put this down at least to some extent on Kevin O'Connell when you're the head coach and he did a terrific job for most of the year, for sure. When it came to offensive game planning, the overall theory, how he connected with players, how he connected with Kirk Cousins. I mean, that's you know, that right there was enough to say that Kevin O'Connell was a good head coach this year.

But, I mean, we also have to say that you don't just get to own one side of the ball. If we're going to hold the defensive coach to that standard, we have to hold the offensive coach to that standard as well. And this is going to be something that as we go into next year, there should be pressure on Kevin O'Connell as well to pick the right system, pick the right defensive coordinator and figure it out as the season goes along. And if there is something that he doesn't like and he wants changed, he needs to change it. And he needs to change it like right now, you know, as opposed to getting to the end of the season and having to fire the coach. What are my thoughts on Mike Pettin stepping up as the defensive coordinator?

Yeah, that's an interesting one because Pettin, in my experience, I covered him in Buffalo. He was really, really well thought of in Buffalo. And then when he left, as you mentioned, he became a head coach. And what, Brian Hoyer was his quarterback. I don't know. Was it, was that a Johnny Manziel year? Also it's Pettin, but I also looked at his performances as far as those defenses and they were okay. They were more of mid-pack type of defenses. He's a very, very experienced defensive coordinator. I just wonder if it's going to go okay when it comes to hiring from inside the house. I mean, do you want to hire somebody from in the house that was involved in a defense that ranked 28th? I don't know. What are my thoughts on the Vikings

2022 draft class after year one? I mean, after year one, it just couldn't be much worse of a situation for the draft class. The first two draft picks didn't play and were hurt. Ed Ingram had a very poor year and look, he might develop, but he allowed more pressures than anybody else at right guard. And Brian Asimola got some playing time, wasn't a major contributor. I think there's reason to think he could be a good player and nobody else contributed at all. There was no like a late round find or something that started to emerge. Maybe Jalen Naylor was a little intriguing. And I think that he'll get a shot next year in training camp. There's reason to be interested in him. But

I think that that draft class right now, and this very much could change over the next two years, is just not very promising. And it looks like when you, this is what happens when you have an expensive quarterback and expensive star players, that if you fail on a draft class, you're just in a lot of trouble. And it all ties back into firing Ed Donatel because they could not go out and get better players on defense than the ones that they had. They really had to go to the sort of bottom barrel to get a defensive tackle, to get a linebacker, to get Patrick Peterson, who turned out to be great, but they couldn't spend money on corner other than that. And they had to get Chan and Sullivan. And I think this year they're in a position where they should really just see what happens with some of those draft picks like that and they had to get chan and sullivan and i think this year they're in a position

where they should really just see what happens with some of those draft picks like a caleb evans and like andrew booth jr and like lewis seen if those guys are ready to play health-wise then just play them and if they're not just play somebody else who's a young player that you draft this year uh and put everything they can um is in terms of young players onto the field next year and see what happens and see who comes out of it. Because I just don't see a path to pushing an easy button and ending up with a bunch of new great defensive players. Not when you're $24 million over the cap. Think about this. If they traded Thielen, got rid of Cook, got rid of Kendricks, got rid of Hicks, congratulations, you're under the cap now.

And now what? Now, how are you finding ways to get enough cap space to actually make moves? So they are in a very difficult position. And I think when they hire the next defensive coordinator, they should have plans to make it a long-term hire no matter what. Hire the next guy and give the guy at least a couple of years. Because this year, I get it, they pushed all the chips to the middle when they go out and look for who their next defensive coordinator should be, it needs to be somebody with a development type of history, not an Ed Donatel who's sort of, I'm going to install my system, and if it doesn't work, it's the player's fault. I mean, that's just not the type that they should be looking into. So Stephen suggests that Kevin O'Connell hands off the play calling to Wes Phillips. No,

I don't hate that idea. I think that it's really hard to call plays and be the head coach and make decisions, uh, in games that Kevin O'Connell was maybe so-so, but also look if again, if the previous coach had been spending all his time yelling at the defense and not paying any attention to the offense, which is kind of how it seemed. And that was the case for Kevin O'Connell. Was he watching the, you know, when in the game in the defense, could he have assisted in making defensive adjustments when he's the offensive play caller? I don't know. And I think that Wes Phillips does have a lot of experience in the past. And it's not, Darlene, it's not about the offense being a problem or not. It's really about the head coach commanding the whole team and how challenging that is when you are the play caller. But I wouldn't say that O'Connell was a bad play caller at all. It's just there were some times

this year where there were some head scratching moments, but you're going to have that with every team thought he was a fine play caller. But when it comes to the person calling the plays, it's really, the team has already decided on their entire game plan. And one person is just executing it by picking which plays out of which

situations that they've prepared for, but it might be taking, you know, just executing it by picking which plays out of which situations that they've prepared for. But it might be taking some attention off of Kevin O'Connell's plate or some things that he has to manage. He's got to talk to the refs. He's got to talk to the position coaches. There's a lot of things going on. Let's see, would the Vikings have been better if Wink Martindale had been their DC? Well, probably. I mean, I think Wink Martindale's better at this. And then I was very impressed by the Giants, even though their defense was not great in that game. But when we looked back through it, they changed entirely from the previous time that they faced the Vikings. And I think that was the last straw was just the fact that they played the same exact way against the Giants that they did when it was complete domination just a few weeks ago by Daniel Jones.

And so Jones had had one of his best career games on Christmas Eve. And then you did the same things again in the playoff game. Like that's, that's just not, not good enough. The Vikings defense needs fire and brimstone. KOC too nice. Yeah. I mean, I, I don't know if that's really it. I think they need better players and they need a scheme that's going to adjust to those players that, that I think it was, this is when you end up with a mediocre offense or defense, I think you can point to, Hey, maybe this didn't happen or that didn't happen. When something is awful, when it's 31st, that means it was everyone.

It was the defensive coordinator. It was the front office, all those things. My thoughts on Kweisi Adafo-Mensah after year one is I'm really interested to see if and how he handles it if this is now his show if it's entirely his show because last year when he got here i think that ownership had a very clear idea of what they wanted and it was on him to execute that and now it should be after winning 13 regular season games it should be the quesia daflamento show to do with what he pleases with this roster and not be kind of guided by the ownership to say, well, we need you to take this direction. This, to me, is now his show, his direction for the franchise.

I think it was hit and miss. You know, the Peterson and Zedaria Smith signings, if you're going to go all in, and the Hawkinson trade, give him an A for all those. But around the margins, not very good. Harrison Phillips, Jordan Hicks, Channing Sullivan, those are not good finds. The draft idea was just a little bit too much like, I'm going to prove that I'm analytics by trading down. And you trade it out of a position where usually stars can be taken. So, you know, I think that there are things to learn from for Kweisi Adafo-Mensa. For me, you know, we on the show the other day gave him a grade, but I think the real grade is incomplete that there were, you know, the Jalen Rager trade is not good. The Ross Blacklock trade is not good. So, you know, there

are things to learn from the first year. And I wouldn't say that I know yet whether he's going to be a good or bad GM. You won 13 games in the regular season. It's hard to say you blew it, man. But there were things to like and things not to like. And on the defensive side, there were a lot of things not to like about the way that they built their defense personnel wise and the players that they decided to keep. It's just, was he asked to keep some of those players?

Was he told to keep Harrison Smith, to keep Daniel Hunter, to keep Eric Kendricks rather than moving on and getting younger? And yeah, the draft did not work out. It just didn't. And I think it was a process issue because on draft night, there was a lot of questions to be asked. Why are you trading that far down without getting a future first round draft pick? That's a huge question. And usually teams don't unless they can't. And I don't really care what it says on draft charts. I mean, you need to win that by a lot. If you're going to move out of a top 15 pick all the

way down to the end of the first round. And then non-premium positions. My biggest criticism was non-premium positions. And I think we see it show up here. When you draft a safety, when you draft a linebacker, when you draft a guard, these are guys who just don't really impact the game the same as edge rushers and corners on the defensive side. And it was the corners who were getting roasted a lot this year. Brian Flores is the defensive coordinator, possibly. Yeah, I mean,

I think that the way he handled his defense, you want to talk about aggressive, you want to talk about the opposite of Ed Donatell and aggressive. Brian Flores had a very, very aggressive defense in Miami. That has to be a conversation. But I look at it like it has to be probably more someone who is on the younger side to fit with sort of the vibe of the organization and someone who's more a player development person. I don't know if that's Flores or not. I don't know him. I haven't covered him. But I think player development has to be at the center of all of this. Other than TJ Hawkinson, who had a good game versus the Giants. Kirk did, I think. Yeah, but you're right. Caleb Evans and Duke Shelley look promising.

I would say yes and no. There were moments for both of them. Duke Shelley is not really like a prospect. Sort of what you see is what you get there. He's more of a backup player projecting toward the future. And Caleb Evans, I mean, I thought that he showed some potential and some physical ability as well. I am concerned about a guy who has three concussions and gets shut down, but yeah. And this is what I think for next year. I think you roll out with Booth Jr. and Evans from day one and you say, figure it out guys. And if you need Duke Shelley to come in off the bench, cause it's not working, then do it. Let's see. Is Mike Zimmer available? I heard he's good at developing cornerbacks. Well, you're only as good at developing players usually as the players are talented, but

Mike Zimmer did do that. And I think if he had more time with some of these younger guys, he probably would have developed them, but that's the hard thing, right? It's like when you're working on a timeline, developing players is hard. And that's why i say when they need to look at this from a long-term perspective uh let's see what's the defense's ceiling with some of the personnel but a different defensive coordinator though so much blame goes toward ed but how much is on an aging roster i mean that's the big question but i think you know i think i think that uh when you're talking about like the defense's ceiling without Ed Donatel, I think it's a little higher than it was.

I mean, I don't think there's any person who would have said, oh, yeah, if they didn't have Ed Donatel, they're top five. No way. No, no, no. No one would ever say that. But let's see. They played Detroit a second time. They knew what Detroit was going to bring as an offense. Got destroyed. They played the Packers a second time. Got destroyed. They played the Giants a second time. Got destroyed. Uh, no, not really, but I don't look at

that game with Jefferson against the giants and say like that he did anything super wrong. I think that they passed the ball extremely well for the whole game and they needed one more drive and they didn't get it. And then Justin Jefferson is not going to every single game, like get 150 yards. Sometimes you're going to throw to Hawkinson and he's going to have the huge game, but they were really good passing the ball in that game. So I don't look at it as, oh, well, Jefferson choked or something. They threw the ball really effectively. They needed probably one more play on those final two drives.

But I, I mean, I think that was the defense's loss in the playoffs. Young and aggressive for a new defensive coordinator, I think, is exactly right, Michael. That's exactly what I would go with. Young as in a focus on player development and aggressive as in you're probably not going to be that good. So go after the passer. Go after the passer in the future. All right. Well, you guys great great questions and we

could probably go on all night um but you know i think we've probably covered every element of the firing here that we could so i i thank everybody for jumping in and um you know jim leonard's name by the way was brought up you know earlier and i think it's interesting because of his NFL experience. I like that idea as somebody to talk about, but it's hard to know right now who they're going to look at. There's so many potential candidates, lots of teams that have young coordinators. There are coordinators that are on teams who are going to get fired when those teams name head coaches. So this might be a little while before the Vikings eventually name a defensive coordinator. So it's hard to just like pick names out of the air at the moment. But anyway, great stuff. Really fun time talking with all of you guys.

And I'm making it an off-season goal to go live on YouTube a lot more often and to do these chats because it's really fun chatting with you guys, getting your feedback and everything else. So I hope that we can do it on a regular basis when it comes to breaking news and emergency podcasts, we'll probably do it this way where I'm going live. So you guys can come in and get your feedback right away. So thanks so much to everybody who watched and who listened and appreciate

your time. And hopefully we see you again on one of these live streams. We will catch you next time and get ready. Get ready for a roller coaster of an off season. This is the first domino to fall and there will probably be many. So take care, everybody.