Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - ESPN Cardinals reporter: Work ethic questions about Kyler Murray are 'ridiculous' (Part 2)

Episode Date: March 14, 2026

Matthew Coller talks with ESPN Arizona Cardinals reporter Josh Weinfuss about his years covering Kyler Murray and brings light to some of the discussion about his work ethic and breaks down how he was massively different in 2024 under Drew Petzing and Jonathan Gannon. The Purple Insider podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. Also, check out our sponsor HIMS at https://hims.com/purpleinsider Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

This episode of Purple Insider is presented by Fandul. Let's get Manny Hill in here. And, you know, Mani has been here for all the debates, all the arguments, the darn old win in the Super Bowl and so forth. And I thought, I can't end the week with all this discussion

without Manny Hill giving his take on the Vikings landing, Kyler Murray. So, uh, Mani, welcome. Welcome to the show. And I'm just going to move aside here.

And I'm going to give you the floor. and I want you to tell me everything you think about the Vikings getting Kyler Murray. Go ahead. I think that it is, I think there's a lot of reason for optimism that the Vikings can put together a really good season in 2026 because you're now going to have a quarterback running this offense that has experience and has had success in the past. and he's not a guy that's like over the hill and in his mid to late 30s and hey maybe you know maybe we can squeeze one more good season out of him maybe there's a little bit left in the tank for Kyler married no this is a guy that is at a very similar age that Sam darnald was when he got to the Minnesota Vikings in 2024 kind of right going right into the prime age of his career into in to his late 20s um And he's a guy with a lot of really good physical talent.

And, you know, people are going to talk about the height and everything. I just think it's a lazy, I don't want to say meaningless argument because I do think that his height will come into play in certain situations. But I think to just say, well, he sucks because he's 5'10, I think is just very lazy. And it just kind of shows that you either haven't been watching. or you have watched and you just don't want him because you want J.J. McCarthy to be the guy and that you're upset because J.J. McCarthy is not going to be the guy in 2026. And none of this means, caller, by the way, that J.J. McCarthy's career is done and over and just cast him aside. He still has an opportunity to turn things around as we've seen with other quarterbacks

in what they've done with their career, Sam Darnold being one of those guys. So I think if you're Kevin O'Connell and you're looking at what you have as a roster, and it seems like they're running everything back, we're bringing some of the guys back, Aaron Jones, bringing him back. We'll see what happens with the Jonathan Grinard stuff and the speculation there. But for the most part, the Vikings are running things back with this roster. I think you need to try and put in a quarterback who can run this offense, you know, or run some variation of it, who still has a lot of a bad.

and give yourself a chance to compete and win this division. You find a way to get that to happen, and then you just kind of see what happens in the playoffs. You win the division to get a home playoff game. You maybe win that. Maybe you get a favorable matchup in the next round, and you see what happens after that. But I think to just immediately dismiss Kyler Murray as a possibility here,

just because you want to stick with J.J. McCarthy, I think that is, because I've seen some people say, well, this is risky bringing Kyler Murray in. Paying $1.3 million. How is that risky? A bigger risk is sticking with J.J. McCarthy with no plan of a backup whatsoever and just rolling right into 2026 with basically the same setup that you had in 2025 and then just expecting it to be better. That's a bigger risk to me. So I think that this move makes a lot of sense, especially the fact that you're paying him nothing. He's still getting a lot of money in 2026 from the Cardinals in sort of dead cap, you know, money that they still owe him.

So I think people need to just embrace this, see what happens. I think it has a possibility of being really fun and entertaining. I mean, you watch Kyler Murray play. He's kind of fun to watch. When he's playing well, it's pretty good football and it's pretty entertaining. So I think that this has a chance to be fun and entertaining. Let's just let it play out and see what happens. Leonard, thank you so much for the super chat.

Really appreciate that. And, you know, when we had Josh Weinfuss on just earlier, I know you haven't listened to that interview, Manny, because you just jumped into the room. But he was talking about a lot of the things that are said about Kyler Murray and some of them have truth to them. I mean, clearly his height is a truth. And there are some plays that you watch where he tries to make a play. and it's just like, come on, man, like, you're trying to do too much.

And there's a lot of plays where he comes off the first read too quickly. And I think that those are very rational criticisms of Kyler Murray. And they could be things that ultimately hold him back. But I also think that when we compare the circumstances and we know how much circumstances mean to the success of a quarterback and we go through and compare. from the Arizona Cardinals and what he had there versus what the Minnesota Vikings have. I mean, there's just no matching those two things up. This is night and day.

This is a AAA team versus an MLB team. And I know the Minnesota Vikings don't have 17 Super Bowl rings, but they do have a lot of wins under their belts. They do have a head coach who now is coached for four seasons and three of them are winning seasons. Even as bad as things were at times last year, they end up with a winning season. He has twice gotten excellent performances out of veteran quarterbacks. Oh, by the way, they have the best wide receiver that money can buy in Justin Jefferson. This is just not similar to the 2024 or 2025 Arizona Cardinals.

And by the way, when Kyler Murray was starting over the last two seasons, so we're not even looking at it back at his peak, his last two seasons, they went eight and nine and then two and three. So that is 10 and what, 12? 10 and 12. So it's one game off of a 500 record, which, watch the San Francisco game back and you'll just be like, how did they not win that game? Or, I mean, my gosh, how about the game against Tennessee where the guy is going to

score a touchdown and then fumbles the ball before he goes into the end zone? So anyway, but, you know, 10 and 12. When Jacoby Brissette started, they were 1 and 11. So, I mean, that's what we're talking. That's the degree of franchise that we are talking about that Kyler Marie is coming to as opposed to a team that under Kevin O'Connell, between 2024 and 2025, one, 14 plus 9 is 23 and 8 is 11, 23 and 11. Over the last two seasons with Kevin O'Connell, it's just not the same.

One owner gets an F, one owner gets an A. One head coach is fired. The other one was coach of the year last year. These things are very, very different. But I think that there are reasonable questions about what the ceiling could be. So here's what I want to do. earlier on the show today, I talked with Kevin Sefer and I laid him out my pie chart of percentages that each outcome will happen.

And the different outcomes were it goes amazing and they want Kyler to be the franchise quarterback. The next one is that it just goes okay and they're left with a pretty tricky spot. And the third one is that it doesn't go that well and they know what they're doing into the future at quarterback and we'll see a coach. And then the other one is it's a total disaster and McCarthy ends up playing. half the season anyway because the wheels completely come off. So those are the four potential outcomes. What I want to talk about with you is not the percentage chance, but what happened to get there and then what happens if that's what goes down. So why don't we talk about the

highest potential outcome here first and then we'll work our way down. In order for Kyler Murray to get to, let's say, let's say 11 wins is you're a reasonable Super Bowl contender if you can win 11 games. If he plays well enough, that means you have a good defense. It means the running game was good enough. It means they replaced the punter. It means that Will Reichard was pretty good and it means you're not perfect, but you're a contender.

And you can win a division with 11 games. What in your mind boxes would they have to check with Kyler Murray specifically? Because we know that the defense is capable of being good. We know Will Reichard can make the field goals. What boxes specifically would Kyler Murray have to check for you? in order to get to that best case scenario. Well, I think number one, first and foremost is, I think he's got to be healthy. We know he had the foot injury last year.

Now, you know, he probably could have came back and played, but they decided that they wanted to tank the season the rest of the way. And they just said, okay, Kyler, we'll just shut you down for the rest of the year. But, you know, Kyler does have a history of injuries. I think number one, first and foremost, is stay healthy for the entire season or as many games as possible. if he misses a game or two, so be it. But stay healthy.

That's number one. I think number two is find a very strong connection with Justin Jefferson. I think for this offense, regardless of who the quarterback is, the connection to Justin Jefferson has to be there. Otherwise, this offense has no chance, no chance whatsoever. So that's number two. And I think number three is, and it kind of alludes to what you've kind of talked about, is, you know, he doesn't try to do too much. And he doesn't try to make the big play every single time that he just kind of plays within the confines of the offense.

When the easy throw is there, take it. You know, if you see a guy and he's downfield and he's wide open, by all means, get the football there. And he's got the ability to do that. But if it's not there, don't do anything crazy. You know, take care of the football. And I think it should be fine. And, you know, and I think it's, you know, play off of the rest of your team as well.

You know, this is a talented roster. And, you know, you're going to have, in theory, a good defense, you know, see what the, you know, run defense and the pass rush from the interior guys will look like with Alan and Hargrave gone, but, you know, this still figures to be a good defense. So understand that, you know, this defense might be able to win you a couple of games this year. You don't have to throw for three or 400 yards. And that kind of, I think that kind of plays back into trying not to do too much. But I think those things are going to be, if all those things come together right, I think this team can be 11 and 6. Maybe they steal a game and go 12 and 5 and we'll see

what happens after that. I think you covered a lot of the bases there. I will add to this, that the connection between Kevin O'Connell and Kyler Murray has to be a little more than skin deep. It can't just sort of be a regular quarterback and head coach relationship, which I think is probably one of the strongest points for Kevin O'Connell, just as a coach in general. I mean, he is, and I've not covered a ton of NFL coaches because it's really just been Mike Zimmer, but even when, you know, when I was in Buffalo, there's a handful of coaches that came through there or, and I covered hockey before this as well. Kevin O'Connell is the most unique in terms of the way that he communicates with his players

and especially his quarterbacks that I have ever covered. I think that he has this real willingness to be extremely open with them and to lay it all out there for why we do every single thing that we do. And what Josh Weinfuss, the Arizona Cardinals ESPN reporter said earlier is that despite some people who do not cover Kyler Murray like Josh does and what they say on whatever tweets, he said that Murray likes to be pushed by his coaches and that he appreciated Drew Petzing and his style of they would have a lot of debate and conversation about how to approach stuff. So being in that room and having that connection and watching the film together. And this is something that Kevin O'Connell did with Sam Darnold. And I know that, you know, coaches do this. But I think that that's a strength of his with Sam Darnold where throughout OTAs in

mini camp, they had a lot of discussions. And I remember hearing maybe O'Connell said this at a press conference or something or maybe someone said it to me that Sam Darnold was a lot farther ahead from an intellectual standpoint than they knew. They didn't really know when they got him because he had struggled and everything else. And there was sort of an assumption that Sam is all physical skill and doesn't know what he's doing out there.

And it was like, oh, actually, once you start breaking it down with him, as opposed to, here's how we do it. And this is the only thing that we're going to do. It's really a collaboration between the head coach and quarterback. And I also think that might have been a struggle with him with J.J. McCarthy because McCarthy doesn't know enough. I mean, truly. And it's not his fault.

but he just doesn't know enough. He can't communicate with you the same way Kirk Cousins can. He can't speak the language, the ways that Kyler Murray can, having been in the NFL for this long. I think if that connection sustains between those two and they communicate of what Kyler sees, what works for him, what he's comfortable with, and also where Kevin O'Connell could turn the dial up a little bit. Because with Kirk Cousins, there were times where Kevin O'Connell, you could see was saying, like, you got to push that ball in there.

And I know you're not comfortable with it, but you got to do that. And that was something that he always struggled with, with Mike Zimmer and even at times with Kevin O'Connell. I think that's one. Here's the other one for me, Manny. I think in order to get to 11 or 12 with a roster that has not been improved at all through free agency so far.

And more guys are coming off the board. And I'm going, Roger McCreary, that would have been fine. Andre Sisko, sure, no one even knows who you are, really, but you might be okay. and all these guys are just gone now at this point, and there's no free agents that are coming in to save you. So from that perspective, I think some things got to go wrong for some teams in the NFC North.

That is always a part of it, right? Like somebody has to have, like the Packers did, a Micah Parsons injury last year. One of these quarterbacks might have to get hurt. The Chicago Bears might have to drop every interception instead of grabbing every interception like they did last year. And no one thought those guys were good, by the way, because Nishon Wright got no money. Kevin Byard got no money.

It's like none of the teams believe that that was sustainable or real. And the Detroit Lions, you know, they're trying to rebuild their line. They're trying to revamp their defense a bit. And that needs to not work with a new offensive coordinator or at least some combination of those things to make those teams imperfect. Because while I see a very nice scenario potentially of winning 11 games, I don't see one where they win 14 or they win 15. I mean, I know we never saw that coming with a lot of different Viking seasons. But I mean, that's that to me is beyond the realm of even having a discussion. Now, if they were to win 11 to 12 games, Manny, let's say they even host the playoff game.

We're just, we're going to discuss four scenarios here. And the best one here is they host a home playoff game. They win the NFC North with Kyler Murray. Where does that put you with Kyler long term because something that I only discussed briefly on the show, the three hour and 45 minute show the other day was the fact that he does not have a franchise tag or you cannot franchise tag Kyler Murray. That's part of the deal. They had to say, all right, we are not going to franchise tag you. So, I mean, that means you have to negotiate a new contract with him or let him go.

Where do you think they would stand with Kyler Murray if he led them to a division championship? Chip. Folks, have you noticed that social media has now been around long enough to the point where you can see old posts of yourself only with a better hairline? Well, unless you're one of those genetically gifted few people with amazing hair for life, you're probably dealing with that pang of frustration that comes along with seeing your old self. I have been there, but it doesn't have to be that way.

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Visit hymns.com slash purple insider. That is hymns.com slash purple insider for your free online visit. Sims.com slash Purple Insider. Individual results may vary based on studies of topical and oral monocodil and finestriide. Feature products include compound drug products which the FDA does not approve or verify for safety effectiveness or quality prescription required. See website for details, restrictions, and important safety information. That is a great question. I think it would depend on how it feels. I think it would kind of depend on how it feels, you know, it's kind of funny that I'm suggesting this because this is kind of how they played out the Sam Darnold thing, where they

basically let the last couple of games of the season determine rather than not they were going to keep him. But I guess it would be in a little bit of a different situation because you have a better idea of what you have in J.J. McCarthy at that point. I think if they win the division and Kyler plays really well throughout the season. I think you have to think about negotiating a new deal with him because you don't really know what door number two with the other side of door number two is. And you're still going to have Justin Jefferson. You're still going to have your core players intact. And if you have a great season in 2026 where you win the division and maybe you win a playoff game or two,

I got to think you would want to continue that because if you decide, oh, okay, well, we're going to run back, we're going to, you know, go back to J.J. McCarthy now because we don't want to pay Carla Murray. And, you know, we don't want to give them an extension and pay them 50-something million dollars a year. Well, here's the deal. If you do go that route and decide to go back to McCarthy and he comes back and he, you know,

the year off was, you know, the year as a backup was good for him. and he improved and he played well. And then he comes back in 2027 and plays really well for you. Guess what you're going to have to do? You're going to have to pay him. Right. So this is kind of what the NFL is because I saw a couple of people today where they were like, wow, well, if he plays well,

they're going to have to pay him $50 some million a year. It's like, yeah, that's what you have to do. That's what the NFL is. You have a quarterback and he plays well for you and you win some games. You're going to have to pay him. Right. Otherwise somebody else will. So I want to make a point about this with Kirk Cousins.

Everyone's been scarred for life with Kirk Cousins and paying a quarterback. There's no question about that. And that's completely fair. But I think it's also worth pointing out that Sam Darnold won 14 games and he got a contract extension and won the Super Bowl. It's not like the rookie quarterback contract advantage is wonderful. It's glorious. You would wish it on everyone if you could. Matthew Stafford was under a pretty big contract last year and was in the NFC championship game.

Jordan Love was under a pretty big contract last year. They were 9-3-1 when Micah Parsons got hurt and then Love got hurt later in the season. They purposefully didn't play their starters in a game, but I'm just saying the Green Bay is not perfect, but they're a pretty good football team. The Detroit Lions have been a Super Bowl contender for several years. They paid Jared Gough. Now, I can hear everyone in the comments section without even opening up that window on my computer saying, that's because they drafted well.

And you're not wrong about that. You are not wrong about that. But, I mean, even if we go through, Brock Purdy, divisional round quarterback, he got paid. Trevor Lawrence, 13 wins, got paid. Josh Allen is a little bit different because he is unfreaking believable. But still, a quarterback who has some money in his pocket. Justin Herbert was in the playoffs. has two offensive linemen. He wins that game probably against the New England Patriots,

but instead he had zero. I mean, Jalen Hertz is another example, won the Super Bowl after signing his contract. The reason that today is now a little different from the Kirk conversation is this. Number one, Kirk's contracts were always laid out in the worst possible way. They were laid out in the shortest term with the most Kirk control and they were fully guaranteed. And also, he had a no trade clause in one of them. And it was, you can't move this gigantic stone from your, you can't slide it. You can't push it. It's stuck there.

And let's also keep in mind that that front office paid Anthony Barr and they paid Eric Kendrickson and we love those guys and they're great players, but they pay. paid everyone from the 2017 team. They were not very diligent and they didn't, you know, look around the edges and then make moves toward the future and say, hey, actually, we could get this production from this player out of this other guy that we signed for one third of the price. It was, we love them. We got to keep them.

We love them. We got to keep them. So if you're going to sign Kyler Murray, here's the point is you have to sign him to a contract that does not do that. That is not a big giant anchor. and you have to also be savvy and you have to stack draft capital and the next general manager, this is maybe why you have a next general manager, we'll have to draft better and we'll have to have way more draft picks.

And then the other part of it too is with the amount that the salary cap goes up every single year, I mean, it's just hard to see it ever stopping. They're going to play games in like Australia and on the moon and on the night before Thanksgiving and I just don't see all the sudden the NFL being like, man, we just, we just don't have any, any money. And I think it was Pelliserro that put it out there, man. And I'm going to forget the percentage, but I think Pelliserro had it. It was like, just five years ago, this thing was $200 million. And now it's $300 million.

That's like a five-year span. And I don't have the exact details right, but it's something like that. Like this very short period of time where it's jumped from $2 to $300 million, the amount that, you can use in the salary cap. So all of these things are a little different. And if you were really sold on the relationship and you were really sold on the performance and you have a plan to build this roster around him, the way that some other teams have with expensive quarterbacks, it can be done. But let us move, Manny, to the next layer down as we address four different potential outcomes for Kyla Murray.

This one is the hard one. you win 10 games and you have a road playoff game and you do not win that road playoff game. And Kyler Murray ranks as the 16th best quarterback by PFF and EPA and whatever other staff people want to use. He's he is a dead in the middle, middle and quarterback. It was a fun season. It was a decent season.

It was competitive. I love calling things ethical now because just sarcastically because I see it all the time like bam out of bio like unethically scoring. 83 points and stuff. It's like you have an ethical football season for the Minnesota Vikings. It's respectable, but it's not stupendous. How did they get there and then what happens then? I think that I feel like, you know, and to be totally honest,

I think it's probably, this is probably the most likely scenario, this whole thing, the way, if it plays out that way, I think it happens this way. Kyler has a pretty good season. Statistically, it's a pretty good season. He probably misses, you know, maybe two or three games because of injury. And you see McCarthy and, you know, McCarthy is okay. So signs of being better, but it's still not quite what you need it to be to be able to win games consistently.

And then they deal, they just kind of deal with some injuries that, that they, can't really overcome. There's injuries on defense, injuries on the offensive line, you know, and just going back to the first scenario, I think, you know, the entire roster being as healthy as possible is going to have to play into that too if they win 12 or, you know, 11 or 12 games. So this scenario, 10 wins, make the playoffs, but don't win. I think it's going to come down to dealing with some injuries that are tough to overcome. Kyler has an okay season, but not a great season. And then what do they do after that? That's where you get in a real really, really tough situation because you don't want to be in the Kirk Cousins type of situation that they

were in 2018, 2019, where you feel compelled to pay them because you're worried about what the, what door number two actually is. And you've probably seen J.J. McArthur play a couple of games because Kyler missed a few and he doesn't look great. And so you're like, well, we don't really want to go back to McCarthy. Now we're going to have to think, you know, if we're going to let Kyler go, do we need to draft a quarterback? What does that, what does the draft class in 2027 even look like? Are you going to have to use draft capital to move up maybe until like a top five spot?

And if you're 10 and 7, that means it made the playoffs. That means you probably have like the 20th or 21st pick in the draft. you're trying to jump from there to the top five to take a quarterback. That's going to cost you a lot of draft capital to be able to do that. So that's that I think is a scenario where all of those things will be kind of thought about of like, okay, well, this was fine, but now what do we do? Now what do we do? We're kind of stuck in no man's land like we were with Kirk Cousins for the better part of six years.

and that's probably the worst position for them to be in, in theory. I think what it would really depend on is just how it looked. So if Kyler Murray was a top eight quarterback by PFF, and they lost five players on defense on the first night of the season, which is kind of what happened last year where they didn't have Harrison Smith and then they lose Cashman and then Aaron Jones goes down. And, you know, they lose half of the off. offensive line by that week to Dair saw wasn't back and all of the sudden is like,

oh my gosh, like they're just losing players left and right. But overall, he plays really, really well for your team. And you believe that there is a clear path to resolving the other issues on the roster. I think that's where it becomes very tricky here is you can have a 10 win season from a quarterback where the guy played really well. I mean, wasn't, uh, was 2019 was that a 10 and 6 season from Kirk Cousins? Kirk Cousins that year played well enough for the Vikings to win a playoff game and be in the playoffs. And he was very good that season.

And some of the games, they didn't get a play here or there or while they did kind of melt down in a couple of big games and so forth. And even then, that made for a difficult decision on whether to bring him back. But he played really good football, which is why they decided to bring him back. Their mistake, though, was not necessarily Kirk in a bubble. it was the rest of the roster they thought they could rebuild very quickly. And so that would be my question. And I haven't looked forward just yet. We've been a little wrapped up.

But haven't looked forward to what the 2027 salary cap looks like. But I'm guessing by the way that they've managed things this off season, that salary cap is going to be much more favorable. So can you quickly draft players more successfully this year, build on what you have, through Dallas Turner and we'll see where Jordan Addison is at and you're going to have at least Justin Jefferson under contract and maybe rework an extension for him. And you've got these pieces there that if you feel like you've hit on some draft picks, if you feel like it's a good free agent class that you can go get several of the biggest needle moving names and that Murray

played well enough under those circumstances to be a 12 win quarterback that can put you in position to potentially compete for a Super Bowl, then I would say that you should probably do it anyway, even if it's only 10 wins and even if he was not a perfect quarterback, because on the other side of the hill is, oh my God, and that's what we saw now. And it's really interesting that I think, so let's go back to that list that I was running down of those quarterbacks.

And how many of these guys at some point have had the narrative shift on them? Matthew Stafford, 100%. And I will point the finger at myself when he was with Detroit. I often said, like, he's, he's pretty much a more fun, Kirk Cousins, who turns the ball over, but he's really like a mid-quarterback. And he goes to the right circumstance. He also grows and develops and gets better, even in later in his career. But, I mean, he's the best in the freaking league right now.

Like, that's not something I ever thought would happen. Right, exactly. That's not something I thought would happen. Joe Burroughs always been great. Jordan Love hasn't been starting long enough to have narrative change about him. Neither is Drake May. Brock Purdy. How about Brock Purdy is a good example here of someone who when they first had success,

everyone went, eh, you know, he's just a product of this, that, and the other thing. Last year, he's the fifth highest graded PFF quarterback. Dak Prescott, it's been all over the place from elite quarterback that you would draft before anyone else to get rid of that guy and everything else. Trevor Lawrence, there's a great example. So Trevor Lawrence and Sam Darnold are probably the, and Jared Gough are probably the best examples you could think of is when wheels came off in their teams, they struggled. And when wheels were on on their teams, they were very good. So my point is if Kyla Murray can show that under KOC, he is capable of playing at the same level, it doesn't have to be a burrow, but it would have to be like a Darnel.

They would have to be like a Trevor Lawrence to implement. perfect quarterbacks that are very talented and we're able to build teams around them to have a good enough chance. I think that this is now the more acceptable theory than it is to try to draft the fifth quarterback again if you're picking 21st in the draft just because of the rookie quarterback contract. Yeah, I mean, because that's the other thing about, you know, thinking about, you know, the 20s, 27 draft class with quarterbacks is that we think it's going to be good. Right. And we think there's going to be a handful of guys that you can kind of pick from.

If you're drafting high enough, you'll get one of them. But that's not guaranteed. I mean, everybody, a year ago, everybody thought that the draft class in 2026 was going to be really good. And, you know, Nussmeyer was going to be a first round pick and all these other guys. And I don't know when Garrett Nussmeyer is going to get drafted. He might not, it might be a day three pick for all we know. Right. I don't know.

And now it's like Mendoza's probably going to be the only guy that goes in the first round if nobody, you know, takes a swing at Ty Simpson. So that part of it, you, where it makes it tricky is that you can't really bank on just thinking, okay, well, we'll just take a swing again on another quarterback. And, you know, because to your point, that sort of the rookie quarterback thing is a good thing to have, but the quarterback has to be. good in order for it to actually work because the Vikings have done that. They've tried that route with J.J. McCarthy, but he hasn't been good yet. And now you're in this, you're in the situation that you're in where you're trying it with with Kyler Murray. So I think if it, if it plays out that way, you win 10 games, you come up short in the playoffs, but Kyler plays really well.

I think you do have to think about trying to run it back with him. And, and again, the nice thing about Kyler Murray that makes it intriguing is that he is only 28 years on. I think he's going to turn 29 later this year. But he's at an age where provided he stays healthy, there's still, you know, at least a few more years of him, you know, having the potential to play a high level football and giving you a chance to compete, provided that you surround him with the right talent and the right weapons and a good defense. And, you know, I think that, you know, it's something to think about when you're trying to make a decision

at the end of this of this season. Now we're going to get into some of the other scenarios. But I think if it goes well for him, it's, look, Seattle, you said it, Seattle paid Sam Darnold and they won the freaking Super Bowl with him, paying him a decent chunk of change. And it's worked out for him. So I think it's definitely.

something to consider because what's behind door number two may not go the way that you are, you know, maybe banking on it going. And maybe there is a Daniel Jones split the difference. Now, I don't love Daniel Jones contract with Indianapolis because I don't think he's very good. That's more about him and that franchise is just so middling. I mean, I guess you could say that about the Vikings, but at least we've seen a 14 win season recently with this same coaching staff and a lot of these same players. I'm not sure we could really say that for Indianapolis, but I actually don't think that there's a ceiling of Daniel Jones that says it. We, that says you are a real contender. We know there was one for Sam Darnold because of his raw talent was through the roof. And so,

well, it was surprising he won the Super Bowl. It's not shocking that someone who had one of the best arms to come out in the last decade in the draft ultimately ended up having a click with the right team. I feel the same way about Kyler, where you could make this argument of like, a two-year contract where you go, this is like a test the water type thing where you could still potentially draft a quarterback anyway and see what you've got there. Or you could still hang on to JJ McCarthy and see what you've got there. Or if McCarthy, and this could depend on him too. I mean, if they won nine or ten games and Kyler Murray is just okay and he's not at all great, but he's not terrible. And you love what you saw from J.J. McCarthy. Let's say he gets in three games

because of some injuries or whatever, and you're just like, this is a different guy. That's Malik Willis. It has happened. Malik Will is a different human being from who was playing with Tennessee. He looked lost with Tennessee. And then he looked in total command a couple years later. If that happened,

and this is why there's so many different permutations of what could happen here, is then you're starting to have a really difficult conversation of like, well, like, wouldn't be bad to keep Kyler, but do we roll the dice on JJ again? And I actually think it might be a good idea to roll the dice, the dice on JJ again if you're not really sold on Kyler as a dude or as, hey, this was the best he could possibly play and it got us 10 wins. And we just don't think there's anything more really there.

They did make that same mistake on Sam Darnold. But they made it after a 14 win season, not the scenario we're throwing out there. The next one down involves JJ a little bit more because I think it's the non-disaster, but you miss the playoffs scenario. So the 9-10 win one is you get in and you just don't win a playoff game. And then I don't even know, I guess we could talk about what these all mean for KOC. I don't even know what a 10 win, no, like a playoff appearance, no playoff win.

I don't even know what that means for KOC. Because it would be a good job to get to the playoffs with another quarterback that you just scooped up. Maybe we should have this conversation now. Because like it would be a good job with a quarterback you just scooped up for one million dollars that another team was ready to get rid of. It would be a good job with a roster that invested zero more free agent dollars outside of bringing back Eric Wilson, but it would not be the job that you were hired here to do,

which is win in the playoffs. So what do you think that that scenario? Because I think we all know if they win 12, then, you know, COC's in great standing and he maybe wins another coach of the year award and everybody's happy. But the next one down, I think, is a little more complicated if they're able to just be okay and not winning the playoffs. Yeah, and I think it kind of goes back to what we were talking about with Kyler too.

I think it's going to depend on like how it looks, you know, and how it kind of feels because if it plays out that way where they're 10 and 7, you know, they make the playoffs, but they don't win a game. But Kyler Murray plays really well. I, you know, throughout that season, I have a hard. time really justifying even even though like you want kevin o'connell to win a playoff game and it's you're looking at him and saying chaosy it's time time to do something in the playoffs when you get there i have a hard time really getting behind moving on from him though if kiler murray comes in

and plays really well and you know you don't get to the heights that you want to get to because you're dealing with some injuries on the defensive side. Because it's a slippery slope, man, because we have seen teams move on from coaches because they, you know, they were, you needed to go to the NFC championship game because he didn't do that. He's fired.

And it doesn't really, the next guy that they bring in isn't that guy. And then now you're like in the depths of hell as a franchise. And you become a joke. So I think it's a slippery. slope, I would, I put it to you like this. If it does play out that way and they decide to move on from KOC, I would understand it. I probably won't agree with it, but I would understand why they would do it.

If they decide to keep them, I think it would make a lot of sense to do that. Because, again, because if it's Kyler Murray playing really well and you get to the playoffs, you move on from the head coach and now you might as well, at that point, now you, look at the whelps and say, okay, well, now you guys might as well just tank because right. You just basically said, yeah, because it's time. You're moving on. You're saying that this wasn't good enough.

Now it's just time to really blow this thing up and really start all over because if your expectations are to win a championship and you don't, then you might as well just try to reset and see if you can do it many years down the road. What is David Cully doing? That's my question. Or what's he up to the tank commander of the Houston Texans once upon. a time. So my opinion on Kevin O'Connell, and it's, he's one of the most fascinating parts of this for sure, because it's both a referendum and also commentary on what has happened at the

quarterback position to this franchise. It's, well, this guy has enough talent for you. So form the bond with him, figure out what he does best, build the ship around him in the right way, run the football better, maximize Justin Jefferson and T.J. Hawkinson. I mean, have you, have you even taken a second to think about what an average season for those guys would have looked like in last year's team? I mean, an average season for Justin Jefferson is like 500 more yards than he got. And for T.J. Hawkinson, it's kind of the same. And for Jordan Addison, it's kind of the same. I mean, those guys were held back so freaking much. If you can't make something happen here, if you can't get to the

second rung down in our different scenarios, then you've probably done a pretty bad job or he got hurt. And then if he gets hurt, then it's like, what the hell do we do now with analyzing him? Because if he's three times out of his five seasons, his quarterbacks are getting hurt, I don't even want to talk about that one because that's such a miserable scenario and we're way too far away from football to talk about that. So we're talking about it as if Murray plays at least 14 games. but if you can't get more than a middling season out of it, there's also a pretty distinct reason, which is because you rolled the dice on J.J. McCarthy

and it didn't work out, which is also Kioces' fault. And they can blame it on Kasey all they want, and he was absolutely involved. And he shares that blame, but he was not the only one involved. So you can't just say, well, it actually was the bad man's fault.

Well, you could blame him for, like, Lewis Seen, but I don't think you could blame him for J.J. McCarthy. that might influence, like, if we could only find the person responsible for him being in this position where he has to turn around another quarterback, oh, wait, it's him. So that might be somewhat influential, but my stance on KOC will continue to be that when you find a really, really good coach, he doesn't have to be perfect. He doesn't have to be the greatest Vince Lombardi of all time. But think long and hard and be 100% sure it's time to go. because if you're not, you'll probably regret it. And a lot of very good coaches have won in their second location.

You don't want to be giving away, can you imagine? Giving away a Super Bowl winning quarterback and then a Super Bowl winning coach. You really don't want to be doing that. So think long and hard. I also think that that same goes for the next scenario down. If this is like a seven or eight win season, the odds go up significantly that, okay, I mean, if they think the playoffs, I'd be very surprised if they did something like that. But if they don't make the playoffs and it's a seven or eight win season and the wheels just kind of come off,

that might end up being the case. But what do you think other than injury, we all know injuries, other than like with Kyler Murray specifically would have to go wrong. And I'll tell you if you haven't seen the over under on fan duel for next season is already up and it's eight and a half. So they're hitting the under in this scenario. What would have to go wrong with Murray aside from health for that? them to not get at least nine wins? I think this would go back to the connection between KOC and Kyler Murray that you talked about earlier.

I think that if there is just no, again, if Kyler's healthy for the entire season, he plays all 17 games and there's just for some reason, him and KOC are just not clicking. It's just not working. and Kyler can't find a way to get the ball to Justin Jefferson. And it's just for whatever reason, it's just a non-fit. The chemistry is not there. That to me is if he is healthy and it still plays out that way, I think that's what we would attribute that to.

It's just the relationship between KOC and Kyler Murray is just not good. It's just not clicking. and, you know, the team is losing some, some close games and things are getting away and then things just kind of go left overall in the locker room. That's where I can see things kind of going belly up a little bit. And, you know, it's 7 and 10 and it's just not good. And everybody's pissed off at each other. And then I think when that happens, you're very likely just moving on from the coach and trying to start this whole thing over anyway. I think that you're exactly right to point out that,

with Kyler Murray, it can be totally fine if you win and he's not the loudest guy. I mean, Sam Darnold wasn't. One of the reasons that teammates love Sam Darnold is he comes to work every day and he does his thing. And I did, I want to say probably 20 press conferences with Sam Darnold. And I only remember a handful of times that we got a little bit of, you know, human Sam Darnold out there. You know, he was very much well trained in front of the New York media and all that.

but even the NFL film stuff after the Super Bowl. Like, he's not the most talkative guy. Like, he's a pretty straightforward person. And Murray seems like he's legitimately quiet, just as a person as his personality. And I think if things go well, then they'll all build him up around him and be pumped. But he's not a guy that is going to sell everybody on him so much to the point where, and this is kind of a theory about maybe why some things have gone wrong at the end of seasons. He's not somebody that's just going to sell everybody, win one for me kind of thing,

like in the huddle and build everybody up, that kind of thing. They need Aaron Jones to do that. They need Hawkinson. They need Jefferson. Those guys to take those leadership roles, especially when you're on a one-year contract and you feel like you're a mercenary quarterback and not really the leader of the franchise. You could see if they're like six and seven and you need him. And this is a little Kirk like with Zimmer. Like you need him to kind of just pull something out and make it happen. But everybody's looking at him like, I just don't think he can do it. And I felt like the locker room vibe difference between, you know, when KOC got there

with Kirk and not, I don't know that there was a lot of belief in Kirk that he could turn things around when it went bad. The first go around with Zimmer, because that was the tone that was being set from the top. But if I think that if that's the case, if they never really buy him into him as a guy, and then things start to go wrong, that's where I think it can start to drift and you end up with a bad season. I also think that we'll know,

because I have really, really questioned the idea that Kevin O'Connell just has no idea what he's doing with building an offense for his players. I just think that's ridiculous. Like, how did he get here? By winning the Super Bowl as an offensive coordinator and then his first year,

he's got 13 wins with Kirk. I mean, it's just hard to believe that he can't form an offense to a quarterback when he's done it numerous times and had a front row seat for Sean McVeigh doing it for different skill sets and things like that. But if Kyler Murray, based on his career and his past, and even in 2024 is the 12th best quarterback in the league, and if this guy is hanging on to reads too long and taking a million sacks, which he's never done really in his career,

and if he's struggling with the complex nature, which I don't think that he should based on his career and and what he's done so far. If you've been in the league long enough, you kind of already know a lot of these things. But if it's too far over his head, sorry for the pun, I mean, then I think we're going to know. Like, okay, there is a problem here. Then there is a problem.

And it's clear that, you know, Darnold got it and was the perfect quarterback for you. But that's, I guess, what you need. And otherwise it's not going to work. So I think that that will tell us something if it goes terribly wrong, but I've got one other part of this too, Manny, that we actually need to start talking about here. Because I don't even know how much we have to dive into the total disaster scenario. I think that's everyone's gone and they're drafting a quarterback high. Yeah.

The Minnesota Vikings defense right now, we don't have any information on Harrison Smith yet, which I think it makes me lean a little more toward like coming back if we hasn't decided yet, but we have no information on hair yet. The defensive line is minus about 65 quarterback pressures. they have signed literally no one other than James Pierre, who I think could be a good player. But they signed him so long ago. Is his name James Pierre? I mean, I'm just like, is that really the only guy that they have signed?

What was the guy's name? But what if that's not that good? Like, are we feeling confident on, is it, I mean, Flores is good, but he's not a miracle worker. Are we feeling confident on the rest of this? roster right now. Well, I think that's why, I think that's another reason why you go and bring in Kyler Murray and take advantage of being able to get him at the league minimum price of $1.3 million for a year because it's entirely possible that this defense is not as lights out as it was

in 2025. And you're going to need good, you know, at least above average to good to good quarterback play to kind of offset some of that. Because, you know, J.J. McCarthy is just not good enough to be able to overcome a defense, maybe taking a bit of a step back from what they were last year because the defense was really good last year. And you still ended up only 9 and 8 because the quarterback play just wasn't good enough to win at a high level. So, yeah, I mean, if I'll be honest with you, Collar, I'm not really expecting, I'm expecting

the defense to be good overall as a unit. But I'm not expecting to be as good as it was in 2025 because it's really hard to maintain a elite level defense, a top five level defense over the course of multiple years. We saw even with the great defense in 2017 that Mike Zimmer had the next year, the defense was still good, but it wasn't as good as it was. And that was the whole reason why they brought Kirk Cousins in. in the first place was because we need to upgrade the quarterback position to be able to offset,

you know, the fact that the defense might end up taking a bit of a step back. So I think it's a, it's a real thing that this defense in 2026 might not be as good as it was in 2025. And that's where you are going to look to Kyler Murray and say, hey, we got to, we need you to add some more credibility to this position to be able to offset, you know, the fact that this defense might not be as good as it was. I, yeah, I mean, I put up red flags analytically when people say, well, you know, if Murray was the quarterback last year, then they would have been this. Well, I mean, there actually were things that went right for them last year.

I mean, there were a lot of things that were wrong for them across the roster, especially early in the season, but there were also things that went right. Eric Wilson kind of had a season for the ages for Eric Wilson. And it's great that you bring him back and he's well deserving. But does he do the same thing? Does Dallas Turner pick up where he left off? Are you going to keep or trade Jonathan Grenard, which now I am against trading Jonathan Grenard because you didn't sign anybody

and you have Kyler Murray. So why are you getting rid of one of your best players that I'm not really on board with? Isaiah Rogers and Byron Murphy, let's not forget. They stayed healthy the whole season. And as much as you can act like, well, hey, Jonathan Allen and Javon Hargrave, they were disappointing. I mean, that is true. But they also gave you like 1,400 snaps or 1,300 snaps or something and a lot of

quarterback pressures. And there's no guarantee that, you know, some combination of Redmond, Levi Drake Rodriguez, you know, Ty Ingram Dawkins, like these guys are all going to be able to produce like that or whoever they bring in or whoever they draft. And with the draft, we also know that you can't have super high expectations for whoever comes in, especially if they're not a top draft. pick, there's development that's involved sometimes. So there's a lot of projection across the roster.

And one of the things that's very clear is I shouldn't say there's not depth because you never know who's going to emerge. Like I would have thought I had, I remember my first 53 with in 2020. I think I had Josh Mattelis getting cut because I was just like, I mean, he's just like a special team safety and they, well, I didn't know that Lewis seen was going to, you know, that thing. I thought he was going to come back and maybe be the starter, right? and you just like or at least be a role player.

And then he's become a key player for them. So you never know who's going to emerge, but at least as we're trying to project it now, their depth is pretty thin. And also, you know, I saw the chat talking about what they're going to do at center. I think Blake Brandel,

I've been saying it since the combine. I heard at the combine, you better prepare yourself for Blake Brandl. And I think that's the same thing here. The offensive lines health. The offensive line depth is very questionable as it is in most NFL cities. Aaron Jones coming back. Are you drafting a running back and then asking them right away to be a guy?

I mean, there's just a lot of questions across the roster that we could end up looking at this team and going, man, they got a good season out of Kyler Murray and it didn't get there. And I'll give you the example, because I want to hear from you about this. I asked Sefer at this question earlier. I'm very proud of it. The most similar quarterback who came from somewhere else that Kyler Murray's going to be. Like, of all the quarterbacks who came from somewhere else through Vikings history, of which there are many to choose from, who is Kyler going to be the most similar? Who is it

going to remind you of already? My answer was Sam Bradford, because Bradford joined a team that was very good, but also very flawed. Now, if KOC is coaching the 2016 Vikings, they win 11 games and not eight because he would have not, I don't know, made his offensive coordinator so mad he quit. And probably. Hopefully. Wouldn't they call his team soft after losing Philadelphia? To have to going five and one. But still, still, like that was a,

that was a reclamation season for Bradford. He was very good. And it just wasn't good enough. And he was a top 12 quarterback that year. And a lot of things went wrong. So how about, how about, so I'm a little skeptical that everything that went right.

I mean, I feel like we need to know who else is getting added to this roster. And I've, and I'm down to like, one name left on all of my list is Joanne Jennings. Please, Joanne Jennings. I'll come to your house and pick you up. Hey, man.

I'm like, you're talking to like the biggest Joanne Jennings stand on. Oh, Tennessee, right? Tennessee. And, like, one of the biggest plays in Tennessee football history in 2016 to beat Georgia, the Hail Mary from Dobbs to, from Josh Dobbs to Joanne Jennings to beat the Bulldogs. I just want anyone. I just want any free agent. Please, someone.

Yeah. Johnn jones would be nice. Who does this remind you of, though, this situation? Yeah, I think Sam Bradford is a pretty good comparison of, you know, number one overall pick, Heisman winner, Oklahoma. It's almost like, it's almost a very similar comparison. Yeah, I think San Bradford makes a lot of sense. I kind of thought about Kirk a little bit too of like, you know,

numbers are good but flawed roster can he overcome the flawed roster you know he plays really well but you know he end up still kind of like in that nine to ten win range because he plays good but he's it's just not quite enough to like overcome the drastic you know flaws or injuries or things like that um but yeah i think i kind of think of those two guys as you know very similar but again like if Everything does go well for this team. I mean, it just has a chance to be a pretty damn good football team and a team that can compete for the division. But I think there are a lot of factors that are going to have to come into play.

And again, we talked at the start of the off season when we were talking about, you know, what are they going to do at quarterback? You said it a hundred times. We're not going to love any of these options. And even, you know, Kyler Merck. he's the best guy, but, you know, he's not a perfect quarterback. He does have flaws. He does have shortcomings.

You know, but I think you just have to give yourself, the Vikings need to put themselves in the best position possible to try and win and compete. And Kyler Murray ultimately was the best option out there. And this might not go great, but to me, it's, I applaud them for making the move and giving themselves the best chance. because if it does go well and everybody stays healthy and that connection with KOC and Kyler goes really well, this could be a really fun season that I think exceeds maybe even all of our expectations.

And the range of outcomes is very wide, which is why it makes it so interesting to talk about Kyler Murray because, I mean, in 2024, the whole summer we're sort of talking about like, well, what week, you and I had this conversation, what week is JJ playing? Like not can Sam Darnold win 14 games. It was Jeff George that Kevin Sefer went with where it's a number one pick who's flawed and who was a perfect fit for what they had. And I think the same goes for Justin Jefferson because if you look at the way that Kyler Murray very accurately fed the ball to Trey McBride, I know that's a tight end, but it's still the number one options by far the best player on the team after D.E.

Andre Hopkins was done there. And he also fed it to DeAndre Hopkins as well. But they used McBride as a wide receiver all the time. I mean, that guy was a large muscular wide receiver. He was lining up. I was just watching a play the other day because I've been grabbing a bunch because I want to write about them. I want to bring them on the show and talk about Murray.

But they line up three guys to Murray's right and only Tray McBride bride to the left. And he's got a favorable match up there. He wins the matchup. and Murray, if he walked it up to him and handed it to him, would not have been more accurate. I mean, it was just on time, dead in the middle. I mean, this is a very accurate quarterback. And I think that people have maybe like a misconception about Murray or, well, there's like probably about 27 misconceptions about Murray from the last month of talking about this.

But one of the things you're going to see is this guy can throw it on a dime to a lot of parts to the field. And for Justin Jefferson and Jordan Addison, there is a scenario where this just works. And it's not the same looking football as Sam Darnold, who has one of the great arms, I think, in the league, but the accuracy, it will actually remind you at times. And I know it's going to sound a little bit silly. How can you say this? There are times where it looks like Drew Breeze, where it's like this undersized quarterback who's throwing with such great anticipation accuracy. Now, I'm not saying it looks like to be Drew Breeze, you have to do it every single game, and it's

got to be super consistent, and you've got to be the field general and one of the best leaders. I'm not saying he's Drew Breeze. I'm saying there's a lot of plays that are so accurate. You're just like, oh, man, like that was right on the money. T.J. Hawkinson should eat. That's right. Absolutely. That's what I mean. That's what I mean. Like, if the play is there and it works, and he can throw it in time and he's comfortable with it, it's going to work.

And then the other stuff has to also click. And the hard part for me here with Kyler Murray is I know exactly what's going to make or break it. I just don't know which way it's going to go. That's performance under pressure. I've never seen someone's profile like this under pressure. There are seasons where Kyler Murray in his career is a top five quarterback under pressure and a bottom five quarterback under pressure.

I have no idea what he's going to be. I don't know what's going to happen. That's what makes this great. Here's what I'd like from you, Manny, because a bunch of moves have happened and we haven't broken them down ourselves yet. And you know, at some point, this would have been a,

this will be a good idea for another show. We'll do it. To have you pick the schedule now with Kyla Murray. That's what we have to do. That's what we have to do soon. I don't want, I've done like 47 hours of podcasting so far. And it's Friday night.

I don't want to keep you forever. So we'll do that soon. we've got time. But here's what I want from you. I want to look at these over under win totals for some other interesting teams in the NFC, knowing what we know now about free agency. And just tell me what you think. So right now, Chicago on Fanduil is over under 9.5 wins.

And it's slightly leans toward the under. But it's not worry too much about that. But 9.5 wins for Chicago. They have not been as active as, I thought they were going to be. And they got money to spend, don't they? Well, I think it's not as much. Well, they made some.

Yes, yeah, they made some. Going into the offseason, it wasn't as much as you would have thought with the rookie quarterback contract, but they made some by cutting Edmonds and trading DJ more, because I think they thought they were getting Max Crosby, and now they're not.

Hmm. Yeah, they haven't really done a lot. and I think I think Caleb will be better. But, you know, they, obviously they had a really good season and it was a lot of fun if you're a Bears fan. But, you know, they kind of, they kind of skated by with some wins during last year that you thought, you know, in a lot of other seasons, they probably wouldn't have won that game. So I'll say, it was it nine and a half? Yeah, I'll say.

I'll say under, but I don't think it's going to be like drastically under. I would say like nine. It feels like nine for the bears. They're good at their jobs, these. Because I mean, like 10 is probably where I'd have it because I think there's going to be some regression, but I also think Caleb will get better. Thank you, Slim Bow Boogie for first time listener. Well, thank you very much.

Appreciate you dropping by and thanks for the super chat. It's good to hear. We've had a lot of those over the last few days of people discovering the show. so welcome. Good to have you. We'll continue to be here a lot as we go forward. I would probably go slightly over, but then it's going to be tough

because when you get to the other NFC North teams, you might also want to go over and someone's not going to be, which takes us to the Detroit Lions, who's over under is 10 and a half. The betting markets are continuing to buy the Detroit Lions despite what happened last year. I'll say,

lions are tricky too, man, because they went from 15 and 2 to 9 and 8 and last place. Technically last place in the NFC North in 2025. Last place schedule for the Lions, though. That is true. Yeah, and you know what? That's a big, that's a huge factor. So I'll say, what was it 10?

10.5, yeah, 10 and you stop babbling so much. So I remember what the number is. I'll say over. I'll say over with Detroit. I think they can be over as well. And we have to remember as we do all this calculus and when you eventually do pick the schedule, they are playing the NFC South. Just keep that in mind because Atlanta is going to start maybe Tua. Oh, the revenge game.

Oh, the revenge game. And Tampa Bay is okay. And Carolina, I think, is decent. but this is not the West, right? So this could be another year where all these teams are good. The only thing about Detroit is, you know, looking at the athletics top 150 free agents, the only ones they've signed are Cade Mays,

the center, who's pretty good, and Isaiah Pacheco, who was ranked 147 on their 150 list, and is not that great. They really have not added a lot of blue chip talent. And the same thing goes for the Green Bay Packers, who signed J. Von Hargrave, and I think that's a good move for them. They are also over under 10.5 wins. How about that for a division that's 10.5, 10 and a half, 9.5, and 8.5.

Competition, man. Yeah, these guys are going to, these teams are going to beat the hell out of each other. Yes. It's going to be fun, though. So Packers, yeah, with the Packers, the Hard Grave move, I agree with you. I think the hard great move was good for them. What's Micah going to look like coming back from that injury? It kind of happened later in the season.

You know, is he going to be at, you know, how severe was that ACL tear? How long is it going to, if he's ready at the start of the season, how long is it going to take him to kind of get his legs back underneath him coming off an injury like that? We saw, you know, Christian Darisaw kind of struggled to get back to himself in 2025 after suffering the injury in 2024. And Darisaw had that injury earlier in the season than Micah had his. So I think that's going to be a big factor in how good the Packers are. Just what they're able to get out of it.

Because, you know, they lost some other guys that they added Hargrave, but they lost Quay Walker. Yep. So. Added Zaire Franklin. Yeah. Yeah. But he's kind of just been just a guy.

Like he was. He was. He was early in his career fantastic for Indianapolis at times. Whoa. I mean, he's very durable, but last year, holy cow. I mean, he has one usually don't see starters with a 38 PFF grade. So solid podcast guest podcast. I've seen that.

I've seen that. He's a little. It goes on the Joe Budden podcast a few times. Oh, okay. So that's kind of entertaining when he's on there. But yeah, that's. I think it's really for the Packers. It's just going to depend on Micah's health and how he's able to kind of come back from that injury.

If he comes back looking like his old self, that's going to be a dangerous team. But, you know, the tough thing with them is just Jordan Love was really good in 2025, but he can be kind of up and down sometimes. Yeah. It just kind of depends on how good he is. So I'll say over, but not much over the 10 or 10 and a half, whatever it is. I agree. Mani, is this the fastest you've ever seen free agents?

come off the board in free agency, or is it just my imagination because it's like this now? Or am I not like, am I not crazy for being like, where do they all go? Other than poor Joanne Jennings, who's, who's upstairs in my house. I'm going to try to convince him to come here just so we can have one emergency podcast. Please, Juan, please. Just someone. Just someone. It doesn't have to be him.

They haven't signed anyone. Collar, I would be over the moon at the Viking signed Joanne Jennings. He's good. He is good. I think he's better people think. He always could have the MVP of the Super Bowl. I know. It's the Chiefs.

That's what I'm saying. Yeah, that's my guy, man. He's going to go sign with the Titans. Why did everyone sign with the Titans and the Raiders and the Jets? Come on. I will say this about the Titans. Thank goodness for their new uniform. I kind of like their new uniforms.

It's kind of the old Houston Oilers kind of scheme, which I kind of like. I'd never really like the Titans uniforms over the year. So shout out to them, at least for doing that. So. Jack's Park makes a fair enough point. They're not,

they don't have any cap space. And that's why. And but, you know, what we like here is emergency podcasts. Last year, the highest performing emergency podcast from last year was when they traded like a fifth round pick for Jordan Mason.

And that, that video went crazy. crazy. So if it was Joanne Jennings, I, you know, through the roof, that's what I know. We've got quarterback excitement. That's a lot. But it has been such a quiet free agency period that, uh, well, they might be waiting on new contracts for like O'Neill or Cashman to create a little bit of extra space there. This also might be your football team. It might be some veteran minimum type of guys at the last minute. We saw them do this in 2021, where it was, they made the Chris Herndon trade is one of the worst thing

was ever seen in my life, except for the Corey Vedvick thing was even worse. Oh my God, I forgot about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That is a thing that happened. And, you know, like they brought in guys sort of last minute and we might see that kind of thing too. And every once in a while

there is somebody who weirdly slips through the cracks and then ends up being a good signing. So we'll kind of see what happens. But did want to let everyone know that for the weekend, that's kind of the plan. is I'm thinking about trying to put together something. I usually don't do like film studies on the show because we're kind of here to talk together. But, you know, something with Kyler's film to take a look at what he brings to the table a little closer.

And other than that, emergency pots. If there's any, I almost anything, almost anything, not anything, but almost anything. I don't think James Pierre rose to the level. I'm sorry. I think he's going to be fine. But like, I don't think that quite rose. to the level or losing Ryan Wright, but any significant signing

will definitely be here, and there will be more things popping up on the channel. So Mani Hill, great to catch up with you and get all of your takes on Kyler Murray, and we will definitely catch up again very soon to have you pick the schedule with Kyler Murray as the quarterback.

Maybe we can do that next week. Well, if they do sign Juan Jennings somehow, I'll jump on for the emergency part. You're on the emergency pod. Because I'll be over the moon. I just want to say this has been a super interesting and fun week. Everybody in the comments section has done a great job of being respectful to each other and making the chat and the conversations really, really fun here.

So I appreciate all of you guys and all of you new subscribers. Welcome to the show. And we will talk to you all very soon. Football.