Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - ESPN Cleveland's Danny Cunningham talks about Kwesi Adofo-Mensah's background

Episode Date: January 30, 2022

Matthew Coller is joined by ESPN Cleveland's Danny Cunningham to talk about Kwesi Adofo-Mensah's background in building the Cleveland Browns. What have the Browns done as a front office that the Vikings would like to emulate? Are Browns fans happy with their front office? What missteps caused them to miss the playoffs that the Vikings should avoid? Is there any legitimacy to a Kirk Cousins for Baker Mayfield trade? Why is Mayfield's personality a concern? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider, Matthew Collard here, and along with me, my former teammates, and now with ESPN Cleveland, Danny Cunningham. What is up, Danny? How are you? I'm just living the dream, Matthew. How are things up north? Well, you know, refreshing, interesting, not dreadful to talk about the same several topics with the GM and the coach, and maybe even with the quarterback soon, I guess we'll talk about that as we get into one particular rumor that's been floated out involving the vikings and the cleveland browns but i wanted

to bring you on um well one because i just find any excuse to bring you on and talk football because i enjoy talking with you and miss working with you danny but also because the vikings have now a cleveland brown as their uh general manager in quasi adafo mensa so let me start out right with this when andrew berry takes over as general manager of the cleveland browns i i want to know what what it was like what the general feeling there was because there was the sashi thing where it seemed like the analytics were too analytic uh for a lot of people maybe in that organization but also the quarterback situation was pretty messy as it may be now but really messy at the time and then andrew berry comes in seems to solidify things they hire kevin stefanski they're a

successful team they've got a roster that goes into this year with a chance to be a legitimate contender. It doesn't happen for them in large part because of Baker Mayfield and his injury. But what is the impression there been on the whole of the Cleveland front office? I think people are really happy with the job that Andrew Barry and the rest of the front office office have done here in Cleveland, but it was an interesting thing when he was hired, not because people didn't like Andrew Barry who had previous front office experience in Cleveland before spending that year in Philadelphia and coming back. But it was as if people were more upset that it seemed a power struggle was won by Paul

D Podesta, who is really, it was Andrew Barry's boss essentially. And it's thought of as a baseball guy. You know, he was portrayed in the movie money ball. Like that's how ingrained in baseball he was. And then he was running the Cleveland Browns and people like they're giving power to a baseball guy. There's no way this is ever going to go well. It's just going to get worse. The days of one in 31, which were gone for two years, going seven, eight and one, and then six and 10 are back. And then two years later, yes, this past season obviously was not a success compared to what the expectations were prior to the season, but they've had the most successful two-year stretch since the Browns returned in 1999. And that much is not debatable. I think if you want to take a look at the way that Barry has

built the roster, I think he's done a fantastic job his first two years. You can't tackle everything at once. As you know, we're going into his first year, the offense obviously needed some work and that happened. They were able to make the improvements that they needed to make on that end of the football. And then they made the playoffs, went, you know, 11 and five, made the playoffs, won a playoff game. The defense very badly needed to be upgraded. Andrew Barry was able to go out and do that last off season. And they had a very good defensive unit, not a great defensive unit, but a playoff caliber defensive unit again this year. And I don't think that you can put the blame of Baker Mayfield, not be good enough on Andrew

Barry. Well, and that's, I think an interesting part of this is that when you look at Cleveland's roster player, number two through 53, I think it's one of the better rosters overall in the NFL. And it wasn't just Baker himself being bad. He was playing hurt, which maybe was a mistake to continue to play him hurt and not play case Keenum. If you get one more win that Baker threw away because he was playing

injured, then you're making the playoffs, right? Or was it two wins? Whatever it was that they needed to be in the playoffs. Like Case Keenum has done this before, even for a team that had Kevin Stefanski on it. It's not like he's just a complete bum. He's able to go out and win games if he's got a good enough team. But when you start going through the different position groups, the offensive line that they've built is one of the best in the NFL. And I think that this is what has to catch the attention of Vikings fans is both candidates

that the Vikings brought in, Ryan Poles and Kwasi Adolfo-Mensa, they both have backgrounds of building teams, offensive lines that are good. And I guess I wonder if like what you can glean from just the philosophy of team building, because you basically saw this Cleveland team go from not having a lot of talent to getting a lot of draft capital and a lot of cap space and having the option to kind of put it wherever they want. And they were able to build this offensive line. That's just terrific. Yeah. And that's a huge part of the Browns success back in 2020. And when they were successful this year, that was a big reason why is the offensive line. And while Barry doesn't get credit necessarily for finding all of those guys, he did draft Jedrick Wills Jr. Who's the

left tackle and has been terrific when healthy for the Browns. And Joel Batonio is the longest tenured guy on the team. He's been around for a really long time. JC Tretter was there long before Andrew Barry, even Wyatt Teller was acquired prior to Andrew Barry coming in to the fold, but he did sign Jack Conklin who before he got injured this year, he was an all pro back in 2020. He extended Joel Batonio to a contract. He extended Wyatt Teller this season as well. So he has, even for the guys that he didn't find per se, he has entrusted them that they're going to be around for a long time. And they're going to be a focal point of why the Browns are going to be successful. Of course, considering they get the quarterback position figured out, whether that's Baker, Kirk Cousins, or somebody else.

But the offensive line is something that has been a real focus for this front office. And I don't think that there's any argument other than the fact that they got it right. Be patient on the Kirk Cousins, Baker Mayfield thing. We will get to it, I promise you. But the offensive and defensive lines are really a focus, I think, for the Vikings. Because on the defensive line, you have a decision to make with Daniil Hunter. But the rest of it, Delvin Tomlinson is a decent player. Michael Pierce signed two years ago.

He's played 250 snaps total and could be a cap casualty. Sheldon Richardson probably leaves in free agency again because he likes to do that. And outside of that, Everson Griffin is not going to return and they have not really truly developed anyone that is someone you can expect to start. Even DJ Wanham. And I think he ended up with eight sacks, but it was one of those. Some of them kind of ran right into him and he had one of the worst pressure rates among defensive ends in the entire league. So I doubt that analytic will be lost on quasi Adolfo Mensah, but the building of the defense in general, it was really bad in 2020 and seemed to improve. And this is the unfortunate part about how Baker played is that it is, it seems like the Cleveland defense is going in the right direction. This is something that the Vikings badly need, Danny. Tell me about

just gathering talent on Cleveland's defense and how it's been done. Well, it's been done in a number of ways. If you want to look at, the Browns were very aggressive in free agency. I don't know if it was the first day of free agency, but John Johnson III from the Rams, he was the first move that Andrew Berry made on that side of the football. Troy Hill in the secondary, another guy from the Los Angeles Rams that was brought over in free agency. A little bit later in the free agency period, Tack McKinley, who certainly underperformed his draft status in Atlanta, was a guy that Berry was in this front office, were able to get on a cheap prove it one year deal. And unfortunately for him, it ended in a torn Achilles late in the season, but when he was healthy and on the field, he was a solid player for them. Jadavian Clowney

was a guy that Barry courted the year before he ended up choosing Tennessee on a one-year deal, reach free agency again. Andrew Barry went after him again, got him this time. And he had a very good year. He's a guy that I know the Browns want back in 2022. And then through the draft as well, Barry used the first two picks of this past draft on defensive guys. Greg Newsome, the second corner out of Northwestern, had a very strong rookie season. Looks like he's going to be someone that can play on the other side of the field as opposed to Denzel Ward for the next handful of years

and build a very successful back end. And then Jeremiah Usu-Koromoa was one of the steals of the draft. I think they got him 52nd overall. And there was a lot of chatter here in town, Matthew, when that happened, because the notion, I think it's a little wrong. I don't think it's totally off base though, is that analytical front offices don't value linebackers. And I think it's true in the fact that they don't think it's totally off base though, is that analytical front offices don't value linebackers. And I think it's true in the fact that they don't value the old school linebacker.

If you are, you know, a 265 pound brute that can just play middle linebacker, the analytical front office, probably not going to have a ton of interest in you, but Jeremiah Wusu Coromoa is the perfect kind of player that these analytically driven front offices are attracted to. They traded up for him, which was a surprise that the Browns would trade up for a linebacker despite being so forward thinking where it's sort of become the running back of the defense where you can just find him, plug and play. You're fine. Don't worry about it. And he was one of the best picks of the draft for where they got him. So they built the defense this year, which I thought was pretty good in a number of different

ways. And I think that has to be an encouraging thing if you're a Vikings fan with the new front office, hopefully gleaning some things away from what the Browns were able to do in past years. Well, and I think that when we talk about analytical front offices, that doesn't mean they follow every single thing to the letter of the law. And with Jeremiah Owusu-Koromoa, he was more under the category of playmaker. Was he not?

I mean, sort of a hybrid defensive player that could be a safety or be a linebacker, line up in every different place. I think that a couple of years ago after Tyron Matthew won the Super Bowl, not that he hadn't been doing this already for years, but it sort of popped into everybody's head. Oh, we should actually look for these players who could do a lot of things on the defensive side. And I think you make a great point about the linebackers where when it comes to someone like Fred Warner in San Francisco or Eric Hendricks here or Bobby Wagner when he was

at his best in Seattle, there's a handful of linebackers who are more playmaker than anything else. They get interceptions. They get tackles for loss. They are great in coverage. These things are going to matter much more than the dude who's just stuffing gaps, which you can find almost anywhere. So I think that even my own criticism of the Vikings being number one in spending cap space on linebackers is more based on what Anthony Barr was worth to them versus like what he was actually worth.

You know, the Jets were willing to pay him a bunch of money to become a pass rusher. But for his role, it's just really hard to justify, but as you're talking about it, and they also, they also signed a running back to a contract extension in Nick Chubb, which I was going to ask you about because that's the very anti-analytical type of thing to do. What did you make and what were the conversations about that decision? Because I think that's one that really catches my eye as the Vikings have an expensive running back here. Like, will they stick with that? Or will, you know, Kwezi Adafo-Mensa say, no, no, no, no, we made that mistake in Cleveland and we're not doing it again. I would be stunned if he views signing Nick Chubb to an extension as mistake. I thought it was a very smart move, especially for the number they were able to get Chubb at. I believe it was a three-year extension on top of this previous

season for $36 million or something along those lines. And for Nick Chubb, a guy that he hasn't won a rushing title, he's come close a couple of times, but he is perennially one of the best running backs in the league when he's on the field. And to be able to lock that up at the price they were able to do so, especially when you compare that with Kareem Hunt, who because of some off the field transgressions is also on a very team friendly contract, at least for one more season. That's something that the Browns have been able to build a really good backfield. And I think the thinking is more so you don't sign a running back to a contract extension or pay him big money unless he's special. And I would think Dalvin cook falls more into the category of special. He's not just your, your run of the mill running back, where is, if it's a, just a replaceable guy,

okay, you get what you get out of him. And then you move on and you just look for the next version of him where you don't know when the next version of Dalvin cook or the next version of Nick Chubb is going to come along. So you want to keep those guys. It's being able to recognize who is replaceable and who's not replaceable at that position. And then once that becomes the case, you think, okay, what makes sense for us financially to commit to this guy? And how much can you really afford to commit to the position too? The question is, how do you know if that guy's not replaceable? When I look at the Cleveland Browns this year, Dearness Johnson, who I had never heard of before, averaged 5.3 yards carry and was their highest graded runner

by PFF. And then Kareem Hunt averaged 4.9 yards per carry. And so separating a running back from their offensive line, I think is a really tricky thing to do. And I've seen Nick Chubb play. He's very good, breaks a lot of tackles. His yards after contact are better than almost anybody in the league. So there is something special to Nick Chubb. It's just, what is the difference between that player with that offensive line and the next best player, which still makes it as

great as he is a little bit questionable. But I think that as we're trying to apply it to Kwezi Adafo Mensah, I think the answer would be that I'm sure there were a lot of people in the front office and in the coaching staff who said, Oh, Whoa, let's not over analytic this thing. We're trying to win. And is another thing i i wonder about because you know the big discussion is sort of process over results process over results the results in cleveland were just not good enough for this year and i i wonder about managing that sort of thing where you have to say well look in the long term and Andrew Barry is doing it, and this should work out in the long term, versus once you set bars of expectation, there's pressure to win,

and that's when you start doing stuff. That's when you start getting ideas and saying, we should extend this running back because we really need him for this year. And I feel like just there was a pang in that move of, we've got to make people happy. We've got to make the the locker room happy everybody likes nick chubb he's very good now you could do it with their cap space which is something the vikings don't have so there is a difference there but i just think it's interesting that

everybody kind of has their process and their analytics and everything else and then you get in that situation and things change and it becomes much more difficult inside a building than it is for us outside the building. And I think Matthew, that brings up your point too, where you mentioned that just because front offices are analytically driven, doesn't mean that they are by the book on every single decision they make where yeah, analytically speaking, running backs are not the most valuable position. You're not going to get the most bang for your buck if you sign one to a contract extension. But if you watched the Browns in 2020 or even the Browns in 2019, where Nick Chubb was

very close to being the NFL's rushing leader, you knew, okay, that guy is special. That guy is different than just the replacement level running back. We are a better football team when that guy is on the field compared to any other running back that we have. And I'm glad you did bring up Dearness Johnson too, because there are a lot of people here, even inside the Browns organization. And he has had a very interesting path to the NFL where he went to South Florida. I believe he transferred there and it just, his college career didn't go how we had planned it. I think he spent some time in the, the AAF, if I'm not mistaken, which I know was one of your favorite things when it did exist.

And then he essentially, he found himself on a fishing boat trying to just make ends meet. He was trying to get tryouts wherever he could, latched on with the Browns. And it really has been a very good story. Started a couple games when Kareem Hunt spent a ton of time injured this past season. Unfortunately, Nick Chubb dealt with COVID, dealt with an injury of his own. And he filled in really well. He's a guy that's going to be a free agent this year.

And I would expect him to be maybe not a starting running back somewhere, but he's going to be someone that's going to get 10 to 15 carries a game in the NFL next year on a different team. Because I do think that he's not a special running back in the caliber Nick Chubb is, but he is at the very least that replacement level guy, which I do think does speak to the Browns offensive line, which we've talked about is the way they want to build this team. But I think we're a little remissed in not mentioning that guy. He happens to be pretty talented too. He's he could be considered a diamond in the rough that the Browns were just lucky enough to find when they did.

Isn't that kind of the point? I mean, kind of the point is this, this guy's out on a fishing boat after playing an AAF and comes to this team and averages 5.3 yards carry. And he was good. I mean, he broke some tackles and everything as most of them do.

I mean, it's just it's it's almost like it's hard to find somebody who can't succeed with a good offensive line and i get it like jonathan taylor special running back right his team's out of the playoffs nick chubb special running back his team's out of the playoffs like what is this really worth is the point and i just i guess what i wonder is if Kweisi Adafo-Mensa looks at it and says, Hey, you know, we got to appease the football guys. They love Delvin Cook. They love Nick Chubb. And this is, this is where I wonder about it. And I wonder about the viewpoint, even of Baker Mayfield there, where it is so hard to just be ruthless as one of these people.

Baseball, I feel like they really mastered it where they're like, oh, you're not worth it because you don't have the OBP. So happy trails, bucko. But I feel like this is where it separates is with football. There seems to be a lot more attachment, especially to players who have been good, even if they're good is a replaceable be not that valuable. Yeah, that's an interest. It's an, it is a very interesting discussion to have, and maybe the Vikings end up moving on from Dalvin cook because he's too expensive at a certain point. I could be

wrong. I think he's got an out in his contract, uh, maybe even after this upcoming season. And I don't know. In fact, I would probably venture to guess that when the Vikings signed Dalvin cook to that much money, when they did, I don't think that the Browns front office would have signed Nick Chubb to that much money, his contract extension, while ever extending a running back can be risky. You also have to factor in the amount of money that it's for. That's part of the equation. And the Browns were able to do that because they had so much cap space and in part because they have a quarterback that's on a rookie contract still. That's a huge part of the equation too, that it all fits in together as part of one giant puzzle. The running back piece in Minnesota and Cleveland just so happens

to be bigger right now than the running back piece in LA and various other places in Kansas city. I mean, the teams for the most part that are playing this weekend, the running back piece isn't quite as big. Folks support for purple insider is brought to you by manscaped. They are the best in men's below the waist grooming. Manscaped offers precision engineered tools and they recently launched the ultimate men's hygiene bundle performance package. 4 million men have trusted Manscaped and you can check out their exclusive offer for 20% off and free shipping with the code 20insider at manscaped.com. Manscaped sent me the performance package and I could say that it's a game changer,

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manscaped. Right. And that, yeah. your confidence and always use the right tools for the job with manscaped right and that yeah and that's kind of like look at kansas city they have jerek mckinnon is their guy who was good for the vikings as a third round draft pick and then got some injuries and pops back up and all of a sudden he's dodging tacklers and playing a big role in their offense they're everywhere if you go on Madden and scroll through, they all have 85, 90 overall ratings. Like there's so many good running backs. Um, but you know, one of the key points is just how different the cap space situation is. And I wonder if you think that that changes soon. And again, don't talk about the Baker thing too much, but it's almost been this free reign for them.

Oh, you want to sign Sheldon Richardson to too much money? Well, who cares? You want to sign Nick Chubb? This is not the situation Kwasi Adafomensa is taking over. That even if they trade Kirk Cousins, you are still talking about a pretty dicey cap situation that he is going to be tasked with fixing. And this front office for Cleveland, you show up and it's just like, oh my God, we can

buy anything in the mall. We have so much money. That's essentially what Andrew Barry and the rest of this front office walked into because we mentioned him earlier, Sashi Brown set it up that way. And John Dorsey wasn't here long enough to spend all of that money, which I'm very confident he would have given the opportunity. So it will be interesting to see how it's navigated in Minnesota

with under new management there, because they're not walking into the best possible situation. It's no secret that the Kirk Cousins contract is a monster deal. Dalvin Cook's contract is a pretty big deal for a running back. At some point, Justin Jefferson in the next couple of years is going to get a lot of money playing the wide receiver position. And I'm actually very curious about that as to whether wide receiver becomes the new running back. Not because

it's not incredibly important, but there are starting to become so many wide receivers that can make an impact so soon in their career. And I'm curious if teams and who knows, maybe the Vikings could be on the forefront of this in a couple of years. Maybe if teams feel that's where the most value is going to be, maybe that's where you're going to want to spend picks because they're younger and cheaper and they can get it done at almost as high of a level. Not saying the next guy is going to be Justin Jefferson, but what if he's one step down from Justin Jefferson? Does that make sense analytically for them to spend those dollars elsewhere where the

drop-off between Justin Jefferson and his replacement isn't quite as big? Those are the decisions that are going to have to be thought about in Minnesota. And I'm fascinated to see how it's going to play out because the Browns front office has had a lot of experience with a lot of different things, but navigating against a really difficult salary cap situation has not been one of them to date. So with the, the Justin Jefferson thing, they were this close to taking Jalen Rager instead. I don't know if they would have taken him, but he was the next receiver on the board or the one that was taken right before Jefferson. So I would always caution if you think you can replace some of these guys, not always.

You still have to get it right. You still have to select the right guy, but next year, someone, I mean, we saw it this year, Jamar Chase was just as good as Justin Jefferson was as a rookie. Next year, Garrett Wilson very well could be just as good as those two guys were as a rookie. Every year, there's one, two, three guys. And I think that group is just going to get larger and larger as the years go on. And I'm very fascinated to see how that gets navigated, not just in Minnesota, but really all across the NFL. I think that's going to be the new analytical thing is the wide receiver position. Yeah. I think you make a good point that there are just more and more who seem to be popping up all the time and maybe it just is determined by how

somebody fits with the timeline of their team. I mean, the Green Bay Packers, for example, if they were to move heaven and earth to sign Devante Adams and then Jordan Love is throwing to him. I mean, Jordan Love could be great. I don't know, but he doesn't, I don't think he's going to be. He's not shown signs of greatness yet. Right. I mean, if he's Aaron Rodgers, then wow, then this place is really cursed. But yeah, that would help him to have Devante Adams. But if you're not ready to win because you've got to fix your cap situation for Green Bay for a couple of of years you should let him walk and sign somebody else sort of like great edge rushers there's a lot of them there will be another one down the road it's not neil hunter is not the last edge rusher in the

world um so that's a good that's a good point i think i i would be stunned um down the road if they're having that conversation with justin jefferson but it really depends on where you stand as an organization i think at some point i'm'm not saying Minnesota is going to do this. I'm not saying they should do this either, but at some point, someone's going to have that conversation with a player like him. I don't know when it's going to be, but I do believe that's going to happen sometime. Has everybody turned on Stefanski? I would not say everybody has turned on Stefanski, but we are currently in the city of Cleveland. We're having our Browns Wars. There's a lot of people that are on team Baker. A lot of people such as myself that are on team Kevin Stefanski and aligned with the front

office. It was a very interesting year to follow along here because Baker Mayfield clearly was not the same guy that he was in 2020. It was very obvious that the injuries affected him and he was playing with that shoulder injury all year long. I actually think that the injuries to his, his foot and his knees impacted him more with his throwing mechanics because he was, he was scared to get hit. He got to the point where when he would run, he couldn't slow down. Like stopping running was so difficult for him. He would limp back to the huddle, but he wanted to be the tough guy. He wanted to be in the huddle.

He wanted to be playing every single Sunday or whatever day the Browns played that week. He made a couple comments earlier in the season after the shoulder injury basically said, you know, I decide if I play or not. And he took it upon himself that he was going to play each and every single week. And then the Browns sat him down for that terrible Thursday night game against the Denver Broncos. And what happens 15 minutes before kickoff, Jay Glazer has the report that Baker Mayfield told him, I've got a fracture humerus, which I do think spooked the Browns. And they probably should have been a little bit stronger organizationally to sit him down when they needed to, but because they knew he would just run to people in the national media saying what was wrong with him because he didn't want to look bad.

And I think that rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, both in the organization and in the fan base. I think that there was a disconnect to between Kevin Stefanski and Baker Mayfield. I think Mayfield wanted the offense run one way where it was more wide open and four wide receiver sets. And the Browns just don't have the offense for that right now. And quite frankly, when they did do that, Baker really struggled. If you take a look at the game that the whole country was unfortunately forced to watch in Ben Roethlisberger's last home game, that Monday night football game, Kevin Stefanski basically opened it up that week and said, here, Baker, throw the ball all over the field, however you

want. And Baker looked abysmal. He did not look like an NFL quarterback at all. And it's going to be a really interesting off season as things continue to move. I've got faith in Stefanski. I think that he knows what he's doing. I think he can get success out of just about anybody at that position. What level of success? I don't know, but there needs to be a buy-in. And I think as time went on, that buy-in from Baker became less and less and less. And it was complicated by the fact that Baker Mayfield did not get a contract extension prior to the season. We've talked about Nick Chubb getting his contract extension. Wyatt Teller got a contract extension during the season. Joel Batonio got a contract extension. It certainly seems like Denzel Ward, corner, who was a top pick in the same draft as Baker Mayfield

is going to get a contract extension this off season. Baker Mayfield's not going to get one. I think that had a big part of why he wanted to open it up, why he wanted to kind of show what he can do. And at times the Browns let him and he showed what he can do. It just wasn't going to help him with contract negotiations. I'll tell you that much. How passive aggressive of Kevin Stefanski to say, okay, well, I guess if you think you're the guy then, and you're going to run around, which he obviously does and talk to everybody and get everything out there. Oh, everyone's concerned about the play calling. And then he'll go to the podium and be like,

I don't know what you guys are talking about. What, what reports, huh? Media must be making it up. Like, dude, you leaked them or somebody, you know, on your side. I that's, that would be my reasoning. If you want to go there for not wanting Baker Mayfield, because I just don't like his personality. And that's a fair thing. I don't think he's grown up the way that he needed to from the very beginning.

He was tweeting back at people, calling out reporters, causing his own distractions, commenting on other guys' contracts like he did, I think, with Duke Johnson. And I thought, well, you know, let's see though, because it's really hard. You come into the league and there's all this pressure. You're not winning every single game anymore and things like that. But the way he acted this year, I was just not impressed at all. And I think that, you know, that's one of the things that everybody likes about someone like Case Keenum, where Case Keenum may not be a great quarterback, but anything that's going on outside, he is just going to keep being case keenum when

his head coach was calling him out fan base was debating whether he should keep playing or not and everything else in 2017 he just kept showing up and playing and didn't say much and kept to himself like that's what a professional quarterback does in that situation but baker just can't help himself then he's calling out another reporter for reports like, oh, sorry, Baker. It might be true even if you didn't leak it. Like I just, there's all this stuff, like who wants this? And that's where I think when the rumors come up about Kwesi Adapo Mensah trading with Andrew Barry,

Kirk Cousins for Baker Mayfield, that's where I think, why would he do that? After he just saw Baker Mayfield over these last two years, even in 2020, when he's better, it still wasn't good enough to win you the game against Kansas city in the playoffs. And then, you know, here you have this last year where he can't deal with the adversity of the things he's going through and ends up missing the playoffs because of it. Well, I think you make a lot of really great points here.

And the one that I agree with the most is kind of the growing up thing, right? Well, like he did not mature to the extent that a lot of people thought he would. And he's thought of as this young quarterback that's still trying to figure it out when he's going to be in his fifth year in the NFL. At this point, you either know who you are or you're just not very good. And he's going to be 27 by the time he takes another snap. It's not as if he's Joe Burrow's age or even Lamar Jackson's age, who I think is a full two years younger than Baker, despite being in the same draft class. So that isn't, that shouldn't be lost on people. He's closer to 30 than he is 25 at this point. And as far as the Kirk cousins and the Browns rumors,

I don't understand why the Vikings would have interest in Baker Mayfield unless they think they could catch lightning in a bottle. But now with this new general manager hire, I, I think that's less likely if they would have hired somebody else. I actually think there would have been a better chance for this type of trade, but I totally understand why the Browns would have interest in Kirk cousins. And I think that's, that's part of the reason because it does take two sides to tango and the Browns certainly have reason to want Kirk Cousins. If Kirk would have given the Browns the same exact performance, he gives the Minnesota Vikings this year. The Browns are without question in the playoffs.

They probably win 11 or 12 games. They're the AFC North champions. Instead they're below 500 because their quarterback play was just abysmal. Folks want to tell you about HelloFresh. With HelloFresh, you get farm fresh pre-portioned ingredients and seasonal recipes delivered right to your doorstep. You can skip the trips to the grocery store and count on HelloFresh to make home cooking easy, fun, and affordable. That's why it's America's number one meal kit. The new year is a great time to focus on what's important to you, whether it's saving money by ordering less takeout, learning to cook, or just prioritizing your wellness. HelloFresh is here to help with endless options to make cooking at home simple and enjoyable. HelloFresh offers the flexibility

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and you should check it out. Just go to hellofresh.com slash insider16 and use the code insider16 for up to 16 free meals and three free gifts. That's hellofresh.com slash insider 16 for up to 16 meals free and three free gifts. Again, hellofresh.com. You can talk yourself into that. Can't you? Uh, I don't, I don't believe that, but I, I, I think you could talk yourself into it. I think you could look at his touchdown interception ratio and talk yourself into it. But I also think that the Cleveland roster was not better than the 2018

or 2019 Vikings roster. And those teams ended up with what eight and 10 10 wins. So I'm not convinced that Kirk Cousins takes you to any different level than Baker Mayfield in 2020, because it's always going to be something. And then the cap space we talked about, oh man, when you got cap space, you can go to the mall, buy anything you want. Well, that ends when you trade for Kirk Cousins and that's what the Vikings got themselves into. So I wonder like it's so interesting to try to figure out what Kevin Stefanski thinks of this though

is like does Kevin Stefanski think oh no no no we did that that doesn't work or would he think uh remember when I got Kirk into the Pro Bowl as his offensive coordinator and we won a playoff game because then you start talking about job status. And if there's pressure on Kevin Stefanski, then it's, well, one thing Kirk can do is Kirk can get you to the 9 or 10 wins, get you to that first round of the playoffs, that kind of thing. It's amazing how, and this is something that Kwezi Adafo-Mensah has no idea what's coming, that the amount of pressure that comes up on you so fast kevin

stefanski is coach of the year and now what and now it's like you have this quarterback situation that's facing you that if you screw it up everyone's fired and it's really something this is how everyone ends up talking themselves into kirk cousins yeah he's a job saver or or or he gets you fired. Or both. In a few years. But once you get him, you're safe for a couple years. You're safe for a couple years. Right.

I think Kevin Stefanski does have a little bit more. I think he's got quite a bit of job security. Even if the Browns miss the playoffs again next year, it's very difficult for me to envision a scenario in which Kevin Stefanski is not the head coach of the Browns week one, 2023. It's very difficult because I do think that there is that alignment. And I think this is a word you're going to start hearing quite a bit in Minnesota is alignment between Andrew Barry and Kevin Stefanski here. And I would expect that to be the same case in Minnesota with whoever's hired as the next head coach of the Vikings. And obviously we don't know

who that's going to be quite yet, but I do think that from the top down, there's that alignment. And I think there's a disconnect from the top somewhere. And then Baker Mayfield, I, I, and I would venture to guess that the alignment still exists between the coach and the front office and doesn't exist between the quarterback and the rest. So I just came up with, I've got it. Vikings trade for Baker Mayfield, then trade Baker Mayfield to Carolina for a first because Carolina likes nothing more than traded for overrated first round quarterbacks. And then the Vikings top five of the 2018.

Yeah. Right. And then the Vikings josh rosen and trade him to carolina as well okay now i'm going too far uh but i actually love this idea that uh they could trade kirk to cleveland take baker mayfield trade him to carolina end up with like three first round picks and then have their choice uh at who they want a quarterback there there quasi i solved all of your problems right here on the show. The only problem with that is now Kwesi's got three first round picks for whatever quarterback he wants in a draft that doesn't have a really good quarterback, we think.

Allegedly. I'm going to keep saying until three years into these guys' careers and they all stink, I'm going to keep saying allegedly because I was told that was told that patrick mahomes was not good enough with his footwork that's what i was told that's a draft the draft experts told me weak draft nobody great in this one mahomes big feet problems deshaun watson nobody knew about the other thing but they were saying he doesn't throw hard enough or whatever else. Weird, weird how there turned out to be someone good.

Justin Herbert, he's no good. Like it's, there's always this. So anyway, that's fair. If these people could actually evaluate it properly, consistently, I might believe it, but they picked two over Justin Herbert. So like, I don't know, like, I don't know. I just, I, I'm going to go with allegedly weak draft, but I think that the big thing is what we just talked about with Baker Mayfield. If you end up with a weak draft and a weak quarterback, like Baker Mayfield could be

considered a success in Cleveland. If they trade them for something better, like these teams who just marry themselves, We drafted this quarterback and we just want to believe that he's the best Jared Goff. That's how you end up having to trade a bunch of picks to get Matt Stafford. Now it's worked for the Rams, but like that's, but I mean, isn't that the point though? Like you could trade Carson Wentz and get draft picks. Even if you screw up, if the guy has any success, someone will trade for him. Like that's the whole point of why you should draft a quarterback in a weak quarterback draft.

That's, that's very true. And I'm, I'm actually, you bring up the Rams. I'm fascinated to see who the next team that's going to take that strategy is. They've not, I don't think they've made a first round pick maybe since Jared Goff. They won't make another first round pick until 2024. They've gone to a Superbowl. They very well might be playing in another Superbowl in three weeks. Someone's going to try and copy them because the NFL

is very much a copycat league. There's going to be some other team out there. Maybe it's going to be the Vikings. I don't know. There's going to be some other team out there that says, we don't care about the draft. Find us what we need. Let me ask you for a hot take. And there's no way to know this. this is just this is just first answer pops into your head which team the minnesota vikings or cleveland browns um some some woefulness on your I have a lot of faith in Andrew Barry, but I also have a lot of faith in the sports gods to make sure that Cleveland can't get to the super bowl because it's never happened. So I will say Minnesota because they've

actually been there before. And I don't think I can say Cleveland will go to a super bowl ever again, because I said that this year and it didn't work out and everything that can go wrong for Cleveland will at a certain point. So I will say Minnesota. I don't, yeah, I have no idea. I don't believe though, after LeBron and after the Boston Red Sox, I just don't believe there's any real curses left. Cleveland's not cursed. At the Buffalo Bills, your hometown. Okay. Yeah.

Wow. I mean, they only got two teams. Maybe they don't quite qualify. 13 seconds. 13 seconds. Wide right. Music City Miracle, 13 seconds. And also 20 years without the playoffs.

Thank God for Tyrod Taylor. It's tough. It's tough. danny always great to get together with you espn cleveland is where you are at now and i believe you are what still real d cunningham is that what you are yes i've become verified since we last spoke good for you i have a blue check mark now congratulations thank you i'm like you love to see it yeah well you know in some ways uh your check mark you have to see it. Yeah. Well, you know, in some ways, uh, you're like, Mark,

you have to work on the jumper to be like me. Yes. Yeah, for sure. And the hair. Uh, yeah, I do have some left.

It's to get a little light there in the front, but it's, uh, that's why I just cut it short. Cause you can't tell. Yeah. I, I mean,

I, I've still got it though for the most part. Uh, well, thanks for coming on, man. I really appreciate it. And,

uh, as you said, um, fascinating would be the word of these two teams because there's so much to be decided just even within this one off season that um what they do with the quarterback it could be something that we figure out in a few weeks it could be something that lingers on for both teams with baker mayfield and with kirk cousins you know, it'll be interesting to see where they go, but I do feel like the Cleveland Browns style front office is going to give them a better chance to reach what we were just talking about. It doesn't mean they'll get there, but it means they'll have a better chance at it. So thanks for your time, man.

And always good to catch up with. My pleasure, Matthew. Whenever you