Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - ESPN says Vikings could transition tag Sam Darnold. Hmmmm

Episode Date: February 3, 2025

Matthew Coller hosts a FansOnly edition of the podcast answering your questions and discussing the idea that the Vikings could transition tag Sam Darnold. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Inside or Matthew Collar here and we have reached the point in the offseason already where speculation is worth a conversation and that's exactly what I have for you here today along with a lot of fan questions and if you want to jump in on the fan shows, email me Matthew Collar at Gmail. You can also send me a tweet at Matthew Collar and make sure you go check out the newsletter, purpleinsider.football with the future of the Vikings series up there right now, purpleinsider.football. And if you want to support the show, you can sign up over there. So let's get to that speculation, shall we? ESPN's Jeremy Fowler said this after perusing the senior bowl and the buzz down there, that the Vikings have, quote, not yet made a determination on Sam Darnold's future, and perhaps the transition tag makes a lot of sense. Now, this is interesting on a couple of levels. I mean, number one,

him saying with some definitive nature that they have not yet made a determination on Darnold's future. Now, teams usually have meetings right before they go to the combine, so they can all decide what they're doing at the combine when it comes to free agents that they want to talk to agents about and different things like that, who they're going to approach in free agency. Do they want Cam Bynum to come back? Do they want to try to re-sign Byron Murphy? They're going to have all those conversations. And of course, at the top of that list is Sam Darnold. So it's not a huge surprise that the Vikings wouldn't have made a definitive decision yet if they haven't

had and I don't know if they have or not but usually it comes before the combine if they have not had all of their meetings about their free agents and how they want to approach them I also think that it would be particularly smart if the Vikings decided you know what I think we want to just go ahead and take a deep breath after the season ended, not run right into these meetings and say, get rid of this guy, get rid of that guy. Didn't play very well in the playoff game because actually nobody did against the Los Angeles Rams. So if they were to take a deep breath, everybody stepped back, let's look at the objective situation, then yes, they would not have said right after the game, all right, we're done with Sam Darnold, goodbye,

good night, as most of you did and most of the local media did. I've also maintained throughout this short period of time since the Vikings were eliminated that they do have to have a conversation about it because it depends on their development path for J.J. McCarthy. If they feel like they always wanted McCarthy to have time behind Sam Darnold truly as a backup, truly practicing every single day before and having a full training camp, a full preseason before he gets in the game as QB one, if that was what they decided on and that's what they still think is right, then they're going to try to figure out some options to have Sam Darnold as the quarterback. I don't think that's the most likely path, but Jeremy Fowler here leaving the door open to that possibility. As I have myself

in my thinking about this, if Sam Darnold did come back and Kevin O'Connell told us, Hey, the reason Sam Darnold's back is because a, he played really darn well last year. And we think we can win with him 14 wins, 102 quarterback rating throws out all the credentials from last year. And for JJ McCarthy, his development path, we would prefer that this 22-year-old who hasn't played a lot of football decides to, or we'd want to decide to have him take a little bit longer and only put him in when he's truly ready. Okay. I would buy that. I would think that's what's best for jj mccarthy in the long term

then okay i know a lot of you are not okay with that but if kevin o'connell wants it that way it's pretty hard to argue with the man about quarterbacks and how to handle them now the transition tag is the part that you probably heard and went huh transition? Transition what now? So the transition tag is not used very often. It's only been used a handful of times in recent years, but it's lower than the regular franchise tag. So instead of 41 million, it's around 35 million and other teams can make offers to your player. And if the player accepts another team's offer, then the Vikings can match it. So imagine a situation where they put the transition tag on Darnold. Then the Raiders come in and say three years, $140 million, $80 million guaranteed. We want Sam Darnold to be

our guy. And he agrees to that contract.ikings would get the option to match that and then they would say no thank you and then he would go to the raiders although there is a maybe a 3d chest scenario with the transition tag here which would be and and i have to make sure that you can actually do this because this seems like it's a little bit of a trick. But if let's say the Raiders were to sign Sam Darnold to a contract three years, whatever, $120 million. And he comes back to the Viking says, you want to match? Let's say the Vikings say, yes, we do, but we will trade you Sam Darnold for a second round draft pick after we sign him, which does seem like if you're allowed to do it, that would be a loophole. And I don't know if this has ever come up where a team has done that, but if you can,

then that would make a lot of sense to do for the Vikings. Otherwise, seeing what everybody else is willing to pay for Sam Darnold would actually be the same thing that they did with Kirk cousins, which is with Kirk cousins, they were going to put out a certain offer and a certain dollar figure on Kirk cousins to come back and be their bridge quarterback. And then the Atlanta Falcons swept in and said, here's a hundred million guaranteed in a four-year contract.

And the Vikings said, whoa, he is a Falcon. The same thing could happen here. If they decided like, Hey, we'd like to play him for one year, $35 million. That would leave them still quite a bit of cap space to do the things that they need to do the offensive line, defensive tackle and so forth cornerbacks. But it would save them a little bit on the cap. I mean, that's like a player, a $6 million is a player for a year on the cap. So they could do that. And then if someone comes in and goes crazy, all right, why don't you guys go ahead and take them? That seems like an odd place to live though, with the transition tag,

because that would mean you're one foot in and one foot out on Sam Darnold and it feels like they should either be both feet in on him quarterbacking this team next year and developing McCarthy or both feet out and just McCarthy you're the guy rather than hey we'll transition tag see if anybody sweeps in with an offer and then decide whether we want to match it. That's just kind of strange to me. If they do it, I guess I'm going to wonder what's the goal here exactly. I mean, are you trying to get somebody to make that big offer to him and take them off your hands? Are you trying to get them at a cheaper price and hoping nobody does come in with a big offer? Are you trying to get the trade options going?

I mean, it's just hard to figure how that transition tag would work in unless they had at least some interest in bringing him back because you can get stuck holding the bag. I mean, this happened with Anthony Harris, and I know that's a safety, and I don't expect that to happen I expect there to be five teams that want Sam Darnold for next year but you can get caught in a situation where nobody comes with these offers and you just have Sam Darnold and maybe that was or wasn't what you wanted to do I think they need to be a little more definitive than the transition tag but if there is that potential sign match the offer then trade him to the team then maybe that is something that they could go after here otherwise

it's just kind of an odd route to go a very unusual one considering how few times in the recent past that there has actually been a transition tag for a player. So that's kind of your latest on this. I mean, really the latest is we just still don't really know how it's going to be approached, but Fowler saying that they haven't made the determination yet is not super shocking given the timing and also doesn't really change the odds to anything. It doesn't change the odds in one way or another.

I mean, I think you might look at that and say it makes it more likely that Darnold is coming back, but I've always left the door open for that possibility that he could. And I know everyone's going to explain how bad it is for the salary cap, and you can go back and forth in the comments and everything else. This is a don't shoot the messenger type of situation but i'll keep saying that if darnold does come back because they want to give mccarthy more time it's not the end of the salary cap world it makes it a little trickier but it does not end your exciting free agency. I know that's what you guys want. You want three, four guards signed in free agency. You want that excitement of them revamping the team like you got last year when Kirk left and you want an interior offensive line. You want corners, you want

expensive players coming to the Vikings, trying to stack this roster up. That's not the only route that they could take by the way, to get players. They could also make trades and they can also restructure contracts and give extensions and things like that to create more cap space. I mean, there's lots of options here if Sam Darnold does come back, but it's not what the fan base wants. So any news like this, I know, is not going to be received all that particularly well. And you could also have the theory that if you're on Sam Darnold's side, that if you're his agent, you represent him or you're close to him, that you would want him to get more money, which would mean that saying the Vikings might bring him back, hey, they might do it. You better come in with a big offer.

They're happy bringing him back. They won 14 games. Wink, wink. I mean, that could also be part of it as well. We're trying to sort through all the different options and details here, but we really don't know and won't know for a few weeks, but we'll continue to pick at the crumbs and see if we can put the pieces together.

I'm still sticking with where I've always been, which is 60-40, 60% McCarthy, 40% Darnold. Most people are lower than that on Darnold coming back, so we'll see. Folks, I'm trying a new thing in order to stop going to fast food restaurants all the time with my busy schedule. It is called Tempo Meals. Tempo is a weekly delivery service that delivers chef crafted meals from a dietician approved menu fresh to your door. They're perfectly portioned lunches and dinners. Take all the guesswork out

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All right, let's get to your questions. Thomas says, rather than franchise tag and trade Sam, why not sign him to a three-year contract that teams find more palatable? Seems like franchising him increases the spend of what teams are forced to negotiate from. Yes. So this would be an

absolutely ideal situation to have Sam Darnold agree to a three-year $120 million contract with 70 million guaranteed, and then trade him to the Titans. That would be perfect. The thing is that Sam Darnold has to agree to a three-year $120 million contract. And I don't think that he's going to do that with the Vikings if they're going to trade him or if he's not sure about what his future is going to be because he knows JJ McCarthy is here. Sam Darnold is aware that Kevin O'Connell called JJ McCarthy, the franchise quarterback. And so are you going to sign a deal just to help the team that's trading you? I mean, I don't know if he would be willing to do that because he can also just be franchise tagged, traded to another

team and then decide when he gets there, if he wants to sign with them. So yes, if you could get him to do it, if, if all parties would agree that this is a great thing, if Darnold agrees, the Titans or the Raiders and the Vikings, and they're all on the same page. Yes. You can make something like that happen. But if Darnold says, wait a minute, I don't want to play for Tennessee. Well, if you're the Vikings and you have them on the franchise tag, you can say, well, too bad, buddy, you are a Titan. And I think that even that possibility that he could be traded after they sign him would make him hesitant to sign a deal without some sort of assurance that he's going to be the guy.

So I think that he's either playing here on the tag, one tag or the other, or he's getting tagged and traded. But again, I mean, it's always possible that he could agree to something like that. If you really wanted to be a Raider and said to the Vikings, Hey, you guys were great. Thanks for turning around my career. Really appreciate it. Let me sign a contract with you so you can get maximum return. I just, I'm not sure if the NFL really works that way. There's agents involved, so they're not going to play nice. Let's see.

To Jay Helada, 316. Has Darnold proven that he is not in the class of quarterbacks that can rise above circumstances? If so, doesn't that make sense to move on to McCarthy in the rookie quarterback contract? Well, see, this one's hard for me because when we talk about it that way, anything definitive about quarterbacks, I'm a little bit hesitant because history just says so much that there are no guarantees. There are no certainties when it comes to the quarterback position. So let's take a look at last year, the team that's in the Superbowl, Brock Purdy is their quarterback. They drafted Trey Lance to be the guy. And then Brock Purdy is Mr. Irrelevant and he ends up taking them to the Superbowl.

And how about even Jalen Hurts? When he was drafted, go look at those draft grades. Nobody liked it. Everyone was confused. What are the Eagles doing? They have Carson Wentz. Why would they draft this kid who can't throw the football and was being asked at the combine if he's going to practice at running back and now he's in his second Super bowl i mean that is to me enough just even recent evidence to say i'm not gonna say that there's no chance someone like sam darnold couldn't have enough around him and enough go right to reach the super bowl because we've just seen so many things happen over the years. Matthew Stafford's first

three starts in the playoffs, he was 0-3. He didn't play good in any of them. And then he got hot and won a Super Bowl. Joe Flacco had something like a 70 quarterback rating through his first nine playoff games, then got hot one four in a row. It's that great stat about Eli Manning, how he's won eight playoff games, and it was in two years and the rest of his career, he lost every single playoff game. So there's so many examples of quarterbacks who have lost playoff games and lost them badly. I mean, Justin Herbert, CJ Stroud, would you say of those guys, get them out of my face. They can't rise above. No, you would take

those quarterbacks, right? I think part of it with Sam Darnold is just that it's always going to be in the back of everyone's mind how bad he was earlier in his career. So every time you see him play badly, you think, ah, yeah, that's who he really is. But with CJ Stroud, your first impression of him is this is the young goat here. So if he plays bad, it must have been somebody else's fault, even though I thought it was the same basic game that got played, especially with Herber. It was really the same game that got played. The pressure was too much.

They fell apart. That's how it goes sometimes in the playoffs. I mean, even some of the great quarterbacks in history, before Peyton Manning won a Super Bowl, he went three and six in the playoffs. I mean, who can predict what's going to happen based on one game, one year, and the whole talk about Manning was,

oh, he can't win in the playoffs, and then he didn't even have an immaculate Super Bowl, and he ends up winning it both times when he wasn't even at his best, I thought. So, you know, football is funny like that. So I don't want to say, oh yeah, he's in the category of, well, he could just never get it done. And when we look at his physical talent,

he certainly maximized what the Vikings had in terms of their playmakers this year. With his arm talent, he made plays out of structure. They could have used them a little more in the run game because he is a good runner. Maybe that was a foot injury or ankle or something that kept them from doing that. There's a lot of talent in Sam Darnold, but when you talk about the quarterbacks who can rise above circumstances, how many are we talking about? I've got three and maybe only two and a half. I don't know.

I mean, Lamar Jackson is certainly in this conversation, but Mahomes, Allen, Jackson, and who else? Who else are the quarterbacks that you could put on the Carolina Panthers and you'd be in the playoffs? I don't know of too many. Almost every good quarterback in the league in some way or another

is a product of what you have around you to your point though. Does it make sense when Sam Darnold is not Patrick Mahomes or Josh Allen? I mean, if that's the standard that no one else should ever get money ever, ever, because those guys are just the all-time legends of the game. But when you're talking about having another quarterback who's going to take over similar situation with all the playmakers and the coaching and they can increase what's around him, if you figure that McCarthy can have at least an even type of talent of Sam Darnold. I think Darnold's got more raw talent, but maybe McCarthy a little bit sharper with his decision-making and maybe sees the field

a little bit better, less prone to the mistake, that kind of thing. Let's say it just evens out and you can put three really good interior linemen. You can add a defensive tackle. You can add the corners. Like that's the theory for one season, I don't think that that theory quite applies because of the options with the salary cap. But over the rookie contract, yes, if he's ready to go, then you would want to start taking advantage of that rookie contract today as fast as you possibly can because your window is a little bit limited and i say a little bit because you might want to check out jalen hertz's cap hits this was pointed out to me by a listener jalen hertz's cap hits do not reach 40 million until

2027 because of the way his extension was worked out so So if you, and this is another thing about being terrified of JJ McCarthy wasting his rookie contract, if he doesn't start until 2026, but you would still have two years of ultra cheap. And then he would sign an extension in the best case scenario, which will have at least three years of ultra cheap. And then in the fourth year, it's probably reasonable the way they're going to work it out. So now we're talking five years from now before we have to start having that conversation. And then he'll probably be able to renegotiate it or something at that point. I mean, this is the shell game that the best teams with the most money that their ownership can spend work out. So I wouldn't be terrified of wasting his contract. That's not your question. Your question is if Darnold can't really get it

done, if there's a ceiling on it, if he's only going to be the 12th best quarterback in the league at absolute best, then, and he's going to go into the playoffs and meltdown, then why bother for next year? And I think a lot of you would feel that way. And I don't necessarily feel that way, but I don't think they're winning 14 games again. And I don't think that Sam Darnold is a guy who can just go do it all himself. Although I noticed that my homes has a pretty good coach and a pretty good play caller. And you know, I don't know how I just, how many guys ever can you just roll the ball out and they just make your team a champion it just doesn't happen too much but the vikings have a

lot to work with and that's how they got to 14 wins i mean my thing that was tough this year with darnold was they melt down so badly in the playoffs but when you look at everything else on paper from the regular season you go this is a decent contending team. Like this is a top 10 offense. I think they finished maybe eighth in passing expected points added, which was sixth before the Lions game. So in that range of teams that compete for Super Bowls with their passing offense, top five defense, top receiver, number two receiver. They had a lot of the elements of teams that go deep in the playoffs. And then it just didn't happen, which is the story of many, many teams in the playoffs. So I don't ever want to say

definitively, it is clear this guy cannot get it done when someone is as talented and has as much around them as Sam Darnold. But I think your point is valid. Like if you've decided that you're, you can't go any farther with a Darnold and McCarthy is ready to play, then it's time to play him, which I would generally agree with. Old Norse says great coverage all year. Thank you, sir. Who plays safety for the Vikings next year? It's a good question. It's not a quarterback question for the first time in a while here. Safety. So Cam Bynum is a free agent and Harrison Smith is undetermined. guy because he played for Brian Flores and Flores drafted him. And in 2021, he was fantastic under Brian Flores. That little pipeline there worked pretty darn good for them to get Andrew Van Ginkle,

who was a draft and develop player from Miami that came with Flores here to Minnesota. So that interested me in the free agent market. I think that with someone like Cam Bynum you have a very very good player who can cover who can come downhill and make tackles who can intercept the ball if it comes his way who is a smart player great vibes in the locker room culture leader really high IQ can handle anything Brian Floresores throws at him. There's a lot to like about combine him, but with every NFL player, there's a lot to like at a certain price. And that's the game. That's what makes the off season. So darn interesting is if he were to come at a price that were maybe under $10 million or around 10 million, then, okay, that's pretty

good. And you can either pair him if Harrison Smith retires with Theo Jackson, or you can move Metellus back to a regular safety position or whatever you want to do there, but you're locked in with somebody who you know can play in Brian Flores' defense. But if there are other offers that are coming in at $15 million for Cam Bynum, it's just too much. The guy has to be a true game changer at the safety position to be in that range like an Xavier McKinney was for the Green Bay Packers, and he made 16 and a half. So if he's making that type of ballpark as somebody who's been a star in the league, that's just too much for the Vikings to be able to spend everything else they want to spend long-term to put into a player like Bynum as much respect, which is a ton that I have

for Cam Bynum. It's just how it works. You just, if everybody could make the most money in the world, it would be wonderful, but that's just, there's a salary cap. So they have to pay attention to like which guys they are resigning at which dollar figures. And if it's going 15 plus for Bynum, that seems like a lot. I don't know that he's going to take that much. I would guess they find a way to get that done with him over a couple of years, maybe a four-year contract and just say, lock him in as a long-term Minnesota Viking, which I would be completely for. And then you go from there, but there are interesting options in the free agent market is my point that maybe around the same price or less, you might be able to get a little

more bang for buck. So it's always a difficult thing because if you on paper move on from buying them, bring in somebody else. We yeah. OK, well, that's great. But what if the guy doesn't gel with his teammates the same way that can buy them did? Or what if he doesn't fit with Flores if it's not someone like Holland? If he doesn't fit with Flores in the same way, then you're kind of up a creek because you've paid somebody else to come in here. Theo Jackson also has to be a part of this conversation.

And maybe even to some extent, Jay Ward, who they've drafted and developed with him and with Theo Jackson, he was somebody they picked up and have developed over a couple of years. But I think it's up in the air. It's very much up in the air. And I can't get myself inside of the head of Harrison Smith. I mean, every year he takes some time and thinks about whether he wants to come back or not, kind of test the body, how he feels. But I think if you're him, it might be one of those, how am I going to come back after a 14 win season and do it all again?

The emotional strain, the physical strain. He's put his body through a lot to play 1,000 snaps every year. I don't know if he's going to come back or not. If he does and it's him and Bynum and Metellus, then that is the strength of the defense and they're in great shape. But if it's not, then it could be a lot of overhaul there. All right, let's go to Head Coach 21. Despite the disappointment to the end of the season, how close do you think this team is to becoming a true juggernaut in the NFC?

I feel like they were good, but not quite that good. Right. Upon further review, when you look at their expected win-loss percentage or expected win-loss total, when you compare what they had as a point differential, which is how that's figured out, they were closer to an 11-win team than 14. That comes into some of the game-winning drives, the late stuff, and also they were never blown out until the end had they even lost by three points to Detroit that number would probably be 12 or 13 but it made everything look on paper a lot worse than they looked the entire season but either way I think it's what you're saying is fair they were good but they didn't blow out the bad teams all the time it's not like they ran away from everybody they did not have one of the top point

differentials in the NFC. It was good. It was plus a hundred. It met the threshold, but it wasn't plus 200. It wasn't at the very top of the NFL. So yeah, you could say that, that it was good and not great. As far as how close, there's a lot of pieces that have to fall into place. So you could say, well, you're a couple of guards away. You're a couple of corners away, hit on this next draft, get Dallas Turner developed. But a lot of this comes down to is JJ McCarthy really good or not? Because talking about a juggernaut, when you say juggernaut, I think of a team that over a four year period is going to be at the top of their division every year. So say the San Francisco 49ers from 2000, what was it? 19, uh, through

2023. Like that's a juggernaut that's stacked at every position, great coaching go into the season as a Superbowl favorite. Like that's where san francisco was at for a stretch there they had some injuries that kept them out of the playoffs but you understand what i mean philadelphia they have reached that same level of go to the super bowl still make the playoffs then go to the super bowl again every year it's high expectations to reach that level they're going to have to have great quarterback play that we can rely on from year in and year out. And that comes down to JJ McCarthy, unless they bring back Darnold and then he wins the Superbowl. And then I guess he's the

quarterback forever. But aside from that, if it's McCarthy, then they need him to maximize every bit of his talent and be an elite quarterback. And I don't think you could just be pretty good. I think that you've got to be great. If you're going to be Kevin O'Connell's quarterback, throwing down the field and carrying a big load of the offense and running everything and being the true master and commander of the entire team that he wants his quarterback to be. Well, JJ McCarthy has to be great. And in order for JJ McCarthy to be great, they need to get the maximum production out of their weapons and they need to protect. They need to have a great offensive line. They need to have a better running game. Like we know those things. And on the defensive side,

defense is always a moving target. It's very difficult to figure out from year in and year out what a defense is going to look like because last year they took the ball away 33 times they got 49 sacks those things are hard to repeat but you get a new defensive tackle you draft a corner who's a beast you know x y and z and then you know then you're a complete roster. So this offseason is pivotal for them to take that step to be able to sign multi-year players, to be able to draft a few more key players because they have the pillars in place. And that's why when you ask how far away is it, that's why so much of it is on the quarterback because you can find guards if you spend some money, you can draft a corner, you can get a defensive tackle.

There's a ton of them everywhere. But a quarterback playing great, that's up to him. And we know O'Connell can do it with the quarterbacks. We know Jefferson can catch the ball. We know that Hockinson and Addison can provide support. Really comes down to, can he play at a level year in and year out that is going to make them the juggernaut that now we expect no Washington to be. And that's the other thing too, is that there's a lot of teams in the NFC that aren't going away that are not going to make this easy, but it's to me,

it's like a complicated and simple answer. It's simple in the fact that if your quarterback doesn't play at an elite level, you're not going to be a great team year in and year out, but they do have enough in place with Derrissaw going forward, Jefferson, Jonathan Grenard, Blake Cashman, Van Ginkle is under contract for another year, but it wouldn't shock me if they did an extension with him, Dallas Turner, they need to take a big step forward. Those are foundational type of pieces that most teams don't have. Most teams don't have the best receiver in the league. Most teams don't have a top three left tackle or a top five edge rusher in Grenard. And he didn't even make all pro and the other guy did so i mean there's a lot to work with

for years going forward there's a lot of cap space to work with for years going forward the draft capital is somewhat limited but yes it's possible are how close are they they're a quarterback playing great and a few key pieces away from being really good in a Superbowl window over a couple of years, but you know, sometimes it's not that easy. Uh, am I Vikes fan? Uh, what exactly is Wes Phillips's role given the KOC is the primary play caller given the struggles in the last two games should KOC giving a, uh, consider giving a play calling? Uh, let, let me, let me be very, very direct on this. The second part of this. Oh my God. No, no. Kevin O'Connell should not consider giving a play calling. No, no, absolutely not. No chance. Never. Why Sam Darnold, can we just rehash this? Sam Darnold was one of the biggest busts at quarterback

over the last 10 years in the National Football League, and he just had a top 10 season under Kevin O'Connell's play calling. I mean, they win, what, 80% of their one-score games. They get game-winning drives from confident quarterbacks with KOC in their headset. They have Justin Jefferson setting records every single year with him calling the plays. We've seen Addison become a semi-star in the league. We've seen TJ Hawkinson mostly, somewhat last year, coming off the injury a little less so

but in the past be a massive weapon for them they've scored I remember looking this up when they had Kirk through that span they scored the seventh most points in the league before he got hurt and then it fell off and even then over the last three years considering they had Kirk Darnold again one of the biggest busts of the last 10 years until this season, Dobbs, Jaron Hall, Nick Mullins, and they still were 11th in total scoring over the last three seasons with Kevin O'Connell calling the plays. And I'll even add to this, and I know it's anecdotal, but Peyton Manning said before the playoffs, if he could pick one play caller in the playoffs, it would be O'Connell.

Now, I think if he was to go repick that after knowing the results, it wouldn't be. But I mean, that's no like what? That's why you have him is that he is one of the best in the league at that position. So I'm going to I'm going to say no. Does that mean he's perfect? Of course not. of course not of course not and if you compare him to Andy Reid who has the greatest quarterback alive you're going to say well they've got some things that the Vikings don't do and they've got this screen game and this quick

pass game and all that stuff and then you're right and they bring out stuff in the playoffs that you've never seen before and they've got answers for opponents. And you're right. Andy Reid's like 60. He's done this forever. Is Kevin O'Connell even 40 yet? I don't even think so. So, I mean, for me, there's things to learn going into the playoffs next year if they make it. But the first three years, this has been as successful as any team in the nfl in the regular season over the last three

years i'm not kicking him out of the position that makes him great and them win all the time and overachieve what people thought they were supposed to be so no yeah wow uh and i hear that sometimes and i think what uh anyway uh let me just uh respond to the first part of the question just i mean just because we think that o'connell like just because he's not perfect if you look around the league at the play callers i mean there's so many that are just atrocious look at the bears last season anyway. So O'Connell can improve and there's no question about that. And there are areas that we nitpick away. And I thought that they got out schemed in a single game against the Rams who understood some of their rules and some of their shortcomings and

ways to attack them because they've got a super bowl winning coach who wasn't always perfect with his play calling either but yeah i mean i to me that's just you saw a bad game two bad games and you're just like pointing or blame lamp like you're just pointing at things and going should we do that should we change that should we no you shouldn't change that the head coach play caller after he was able to do that with his quarterback the most important thing for you winning football games okay i'll stop uh wes phillips is the leader of implementing the game plan so kevin o'connell does not sit in his office and drop the plays on a little chalkboard and then hand them out to the players. Like the way that game plans are put together is offensive coordinators work with position

coaches on formulating the third down plays, the run plays for that given week. They get together and they present them to the head coach. This is how it usually works. And if it's that side of the ball, so so on offense and then O'Connell would have his own ideas and changes and they would come up with a game plan and then they would download that onto the Microsoft surfaces or iPads or whatever the players have so Wes Phillips's role is actually very important as he is leading the way in the week's game plan week in and week out. And it's a collaborative effort in every single NFL building, but he's the one that's largely at the forefront of, of putting it

together. So that's what the offensive coordinator does. It's what Kevin O'Connell did when he was with the Rams and Sean McVay, but just the second part of it, I just don't think that we should spend this whole off season talking about how Kevin O'Connell doesn't know what he's doing or it hasn't worked or something when they've been so successful and just had two bad games at the end of the year with a team that clearly had some flaws and was missing its left tackle and all that sort of stuff so yeah i just don't understand that notion i think especially since he got it sorted out when he was struggling with getting play calls in and they were getting delayed games and things like that but his connection with that quarterback in the headset is why you win 13 games in 2022 and 14 games in 2024. And you really want that going forward. You want him and JJ McCarthy lockstep going forward. Uh, Aaron says we were thrilled by Darnold's arm talent,

uh, as something truly elite. How would you compare and contrast the pure arm talent of Darnold and McCarthy by strength, accuracy, and touch. Well, here's the trouble is that Sam Darnold's a lot older than JJ McCarthy. So he's had a lot more as Kirk Cousins would say, time on task than JJ McCarthy has a lot more development of his arm. But in terms of the velocity in which the football comes out, Darnold's got an advantage, but it's not enormous. J.J. McCarthy can throw the ball pretty hard. I think that Darnold has one of the best arms to come out of college in the last 10 years.

If you were to rank them, I'm sure Mahomes and Allen would probably be at the very top. And then right after that is Darnold and Joe Milton or something. But as far as the ability to put touch on the football, throw with anticipation, accuracy. I mean, the timing is not always perfect for Sam Darnold in real time. And that's what hurt him a little bit against the Rams and against the lions of getting the ball out, getting the footwork right and everything else, but pure arm talent, fitting it into windows that are kind of unimaginable that anyone could get it there, leading wide receivers to the sideline

before they've come out of their break, throwing with sheer velocity. And how about distance? The 97-yard touchdown went like 60 yards in the air, and Darnold said, well, good thing I didn't throw it as hard as I could because I would have overthrown him. And that's true. So I don't think that McCarthy is on that same level as Sam Darnold, but Darnold also developed his arm over years for the deep shots with McCarthy. He was starting to throw with more anticipation as the off season went along

early on and in OTAs and minicamp, it was kind of just throwing it as hard as he could every time. And that's something he's going to have to work on. Like Darnold has way more natural touch to the football. I mean, Darnold's incredible at everything sports wise. So he was just unbelievable basketball player. So I think that McCarthy has the velocity and it's going to come down to executing the offense, but there's probably going to be some foul balls here and there. And the deep ball is something he certainly has to work on. He was improving it again throughout training camp, but he was not a great deep ball thrower in college. Whereas Darnold is like, that's one of his things as just being a

brilliant deep thrower. So touch on the football is something that has to be developed over years and may never be quite as good as Sam Darnold. So I think that he'll have to make that up a little bit with some decision-making and where I actually think that McCarthy might be better. And some of Darnold's best plays came on this, but is throwing on the run. He's really, really good at throwing on the run. So I think that that's something they can do a lot more with bootlegs and stuff like that. But he has put it this way. McCarthy reaches the baseline of this dude has a good enough arm to make a difference with his arm, to throw into tight windows,

to let it rip, to have not much to work with there and fire it into Justin Jefferson or to be in trouble, be making his way out of the pocket, scramble around and then fire it. Like he can do all that stuff. I just, it's hard to match Sam Darnold. It's one of the best arms that you're ever going to find. Uh, let's see one more, one more, uh, this from, uh, DT and a lot of numbers, uh, through KOC's tenure, how many one score games are really one score and how many were either the other team making it look closer at the end? Uh, I feel like, uh, winning one score games is better and worse than it seems. So the one score game thing. Yeah. I mean, Kansas city,

I saw the other day they've won like 17 straight one score games. And I looked up Tom Brady's record in one score games and I was only doing it by seven points, but it was something like 90 and 40 or whatever. He was winning 70% or something of his one score games. And that's kind of how it is for Patrick Holmes over his career or higher than that. And that's how it is for KOC. Now they didn't win their one score games with Josh Dobbs was the quarterback or Nick Mullins because Mullins threw interceptions at the end and Josh Dobbs through four of them or something against Chicago. So it's a little different. But if you look at the one score games with either Darnold or Kirk Cousins,

how many have they even lost? It's really incredible. I don't think that it has this automatic pull that people act like because, yeah, it's like, oh, well, they won, you know, this many one score games. So they're automatically going to regress the next season. I don't think it really works quite that way because of exactly what you said. If you are just, for example, at a 90% chance to win by win probability through the third quarter, and then you end up winning by six points. I mean, you outplayed the other team. That's how I've always looked at it. Did you outplay the other team? And how often did that really happen? I don't think too much

about one score or not one score. I think how many times did the Minnesota Vikings outplay their opponent? And the answer throughout this year, and it wasn't predictive in the playoffs, but the answer throughout this year was a lot. They outplay their opponents a lot of times. And if you have my homes, well, then it's a different kind of magic. It's a different kind of, like this guy can always find a way to get one more drive, one more play run for a touchdown, find Travis Kelsey. Like he just has this legendary nature to him. Like Tom Brady did that that you're always going to feel great if that guy's got the football with a one score situation I don't know if it's always been that way for Kirk or for Sam Darnold but I think you feel great that they played from ahead a lot the

Vikings ran more plays this year from ahead than any other team in the NFL which I thought was a great stat that would predict something the playoffs just It just didn't. I don't know. We're just always going to be perplexed by what happened there in the playoffs. But the point being that if you're trying to evaluate, well, how good is my team? Really? I don't think that one score game thing is always just this. Oh, that's the answer. Like in 2022, it was still shifted a little too much. As far as some, as some of the narrative, they had had numerous games where they clearly outplay their opponents and they made it close at the end. Uh, they couldn't really finish games out that year and had to make it more interesting. But think about the Miami game that they played

in 2022, where they're ahead, that whole game. Teddy comes in and he makes it sort of interesting at the end, but they ultimately come out and win it. I mean, that was a game where they outplayed their opponents, but that year, a lot of their opponents were running backup quarterbacks or were just not good. They played fields. They played a really bad Arizona team. They played Taylor Heineke. They played Skyler Thompson, Thomas, whatever his name was. And then Teddy had to come in for him. And they were barely surviving. They played Andy Dalton.

Whereas this year, when they beat the Packers twice, you go like, okay, that was pretty good. When you only lost by one score to the Lions, like, okay, that's pretty good. It just all petered out at the end. But I, and that's another thing about it. It's like the one score games are not going to give you an answer for the next game, whether it's going to work out or not. And I think we can probably just not try to use that as much as we do

because we have a lot better metrics for it. So we'll carry on again. If you want to shoot me an email, Matthew collar at Gmail, and make sure you go check out the newsletter and the future of the Viking series over at purple insider.football. Thanks everybody for watching and listening. I have plenty more fan conversations as we go forward and we will catch all then football