Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - ESPN's Courtney Cronin breaks down Bears-Vikings

Episode Date: November 12, 2025

It's Vikings-Bears week, and that can only mean one thing... ESPN's Courtney Cronin joins the show to preview this Sunday's game. The Purple Insider podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. Also, check out our sponsor HIMS at https://hims.com/purpleinsider Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider, presented by Fanduil, Matthew Collar here, and welcoming back to the show ESPN's Courtney Cronin to break down Vikings and Chicago Bears. And, you know, I look at the standings. I had to squint and then I had to rub my eyes. Is that the winning Chicago Bears? What the heck is going on with the Chicago Bears? Chicago Bears being a winning football team, Courtney.

How are you? I'm good. You know what I actually thought about the other day? Do you remember when like I first moved beats and like in 2022 we were going to, we were going to start this bit called what's going on with the bears. And it was like this metal music riff that you would play. You just yell like, what's going on with the bears? And like that was supposed to like welcome me in.

I actually had thought about that very question when I was getting ready for this paw this morning. I'm like, I should bring that up because yeah, first place Chicago. Bears. That's a weird freaking sentence. First, well, tied for first place with the Detroit Lions right now, identical six and three records. Obviously, Detroit has the tiebreaker over the Bears right now because I don't know if you watch that week two game, but Jesus, that was bad. It's been a weird season. I would say at week 11, they are ahead of where I thought they would be at this point, because there's still a young quarterback who's had some good

moments at the end of games, but can't seem to do that for four quarters. You still have a play caller who is very self-critical of what he's calling every week. And sometimes the run game works. Sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes he can get the tight ends involved. Sometimes they fall off a cliff. But it's a team that has made good strides because I think what's changed internally of like the way that they lost games last year not being a factor in 2025 is something that's like truly tangible. Like this is a different team. And the effects of it are a team that actually has the belief that you can beat the bad teams, the teams that you're supposed to,

and you can do that against teams that you might not be favored to win. The most interesting thing here is what you said about them winning at the end of games because we had a whole run of that in 2022 and the discourse was incredibly annoying. Like every single week they get a win on the last second or a one score win. And then I can, you know, I started saying one score wins don't count. Like don't even write them in the standings. They just don't even count. It's like the Vikings lost to the Ravens.

Well, technically one score game didn't count. No L there. I mean, so there obviously every game in the NFL these days. It comes down to, you know, final drives or one mistake or something like that. But when you do have blocked field goal, Jaden Daniels has the football slide through his hands in the rain and the, you know, the comeback here against the Giants, you do wonder, is it really as strong of a football team as the record makes it look because when you compare that to even Detroit, who has, as you mentioned, the same record, like the point differentials are nowhere close between those two teams and Detroit has blown out a lot of teams as opposed to where Chicago has had to survive and also have a coach get himself fired because of the level of meltdown that happened for the New York Giants. So how do you weigh that, look, these count and you won them versus. is you had to have a lot of things fall into place in order for you to do it.

Yeah, I think a lot of things can be true in all of that, that you do have to have some luck. You have to have some things fall into place. But there also has to be execution that wasn't there last year. They're from a coaching, like, you know, having like coaching aptitude versus coaching ineptitude is a big part of this. And the moment I like to zero in on, it's kind of benign at this point because everybody focuses that Cincinnati game on Caleb Williams hits Colston Loveland over the middle of the

field, 58-yard touchdown. They come from behind after the defense, you know, just collapsed in a 49 second stretch. But everybody focuses on that touchdown as the thing that is the lasting impact from that game. I like to focus on the Hail Mary attempt, which fell way short of the goal line. It didn't even, I mean, Joe Flacco with like a bum shoulder that was probably shot up with so much cortisone just so he could get up through the game and throw for 470 yards. But what happened on that Hail Mary attempt? They rushed four. They pressured the quarterback.

What happened on the Hail Mary attempt that killed this team season last year? They rushed three after giving Jane Daniels an extra 13 yards. Like it's that passive versus aggressive mindset, the attacking mindset. Ben Johnson, you know, pulling out every trick play he had, I guess to just rid themselves of the stench of that Baltimore game. and what he did in Cincinnati, like, it was on attack mode from the very start. And some will argue if you have to be on attack mode against teams that are not very good, top four of the bottom, you know, bottom four defenses that they faced, Raiders, commanders,

Cincinnati Bengals, Cowboys, like, they all, they've won those games. And people are going to look at that and say, well, you're doing it against bad defenses. It doesn't count. Like, I think you have to learn how to beat everybody before you can just, like, walk in, like, learn how to beat the bad teams first. So that's taking care of business, in my opinion. Does it come down to games that they should have put these teams away far sooner than they have? Absolutely.

And Caleb Williams is a better quarterback in the second half of games, statistically speaking, nearly every metric except for completion percentage. He's got like a 2% higher completion percentage in the first half. But like I think a sign of a mature team, a sign of a team that's growing is one that can show you, can do those things, but then eventually close teams. out far sooner than the final two minutes of games. It's an uncomfortable spot to be in. I get that you don't apologize for wins in the NFL,

but it's still something that, you know, will bite you against good teams. When you do have, you know, you have one team with a losing record here in the second half of the season, and that's Cleveland in week 15. Like, it is a gauntlet, and it's all division games mostly, like the next month. And the likelihood is that they will not finish as well as they've played in the

first half. As they are right now, yes. Correct. And I think that that's a really fair way to process that one score game stat or the comeback stat or to say, look, they're probably not a Super Bowl contender at this point. But if you just throw out all those wins, you're missing a lot of really good things that the Chicago Bears have done to make progress from where they were last year. And I have two stats about Caleb Williams that I think are the most telling of Caleb Williams progress from last year. And of course, course it has not been perfect for him we saw that in week one but the first stat is 14 14 sacks where was that through week nine last year was probably in the 30s I would guess nine or yeah week

10 was when they played the new England Patriots last year that was the game that got like the ultimate like hammerer to nail get Shane waldron fired game because caleb williams got sack nine times in that game so finished was 68 last year I'd have to do the math on that I I think he'd probably be somewhere like high 30s at this point. Right. But yeah, 14 is, that is such an underrated stat. And it's something that we've talked about a lot with players about, like, just the importance of that.

And it's, some of it is Caleb scheming, like getting schemed away from pressure, getting taught how to get rid of the ball quicker, although there have been some games where he's held the ball for three plus seconds, like not, you know, Jared Gough only had a handful of those. I think Caleb's had three this season alone. But the offensive line improvements that they've made, the investment that they made, it is showing that it is paying off. And that's huge because, like, he's addressed it. It's something that's such a critical thing to the health and longevity of a quarterback playing at any level,

but specifically in the NFL for him to cut down on those sacks. And it is kind of that Bryce Young effect that we saw from a year ago when, you know, he was the most sacked quarterback in the league during his rookie season and then cut that number down, I believe, to like, 29. Caleb Williams is the fourth best at pressure to sack ratio. So when he gets pressured, he is not getting sacked as much, which again, is just a massive change from last year because it felt like every time he got pressured. So he's dealing with that better. And I think we can make the leap to say that he's been taught to deal with that better from Ben Johnson.

Experience is going to matter. But also having options when you get pressured is. a big factor here too. And what Brian Flores said is he just sees major improvement of him staying in the pocket and throwing the football. And I'll give you the other stat, which is expected completion

percentage. His expected completion percentage from NFL next gen is the, let me count, third highest in the National Football League. Now, his completion percentage is not because he's not throwing the most accurate. And it's been very inconsistent.

And was it Troy Aikman, one evening was being driven to sheer madness by Caleb Williams. But the expected completion percentage to me is the coach stat where it's these opportunities are being drawn up by Ben Johnson. And this was, I think if you were looking at it from a Vikings perspective, the worst thing about week one was how many open wide receivers Caleb Williams had in that game. Like, yeah, Ben Johnson's stuff from the Lions that came over is still working. And the opportunities are there.

And if Caleb Williams is even a little bit sharper, I mean, you're probably talking about a great season at this point with the offense that he has. Yeah. And, you know, so like to bring up the completion thing. So remember Ben Johnson said, you know, you wanted Caleb Williams to throw for 70, he wanted to, Caleb said he wants to throw for 4,000 yards. Ben Johnson wants him to complete 70% of his passes. So he's nowhere close in the completion percentage department right now. He's completing just over 60% of his passes this past week. you know, it's really hovered around 55 to 60% in games.

He hasn't had that many over 60, which is fine. Like against the Cowboys, I believe he was close to 67, that's, you know, playing that defense. Like, I don't know if it's going to matter as much as where the yards are coming from from him, but also, like, the opportunities to get him out in out of structure, like kind of like schemed opportunities to get him out of the pocket so he can find guys on the run. Now, he hasn't hit on those. And that has still been an issue the last couple of weeks where when he goes from pass to run mode and trying to find guys open down field, I mean, there were a couple of drops here this last weekend. There were six. They had five or six. And they had seven going into like throughout the entire season going into week 10. That was a problem. It's not always on the receivers. Though I think some of that's on the quarterback and the accuracy that he just had, whether it's footwork, whether it's timing, whether it's arm angles, whether whatever. Like, he's not hitting those throws that he usually makes. But it's not like it's a complete dagger to the offense because I think that

he's realized that there are other weapons he can use, notably his legs, which for some reason, and I know it's kind of, it's kind of an aberration based on what we saw in the Vikings game, week one, he was their leading rusher and he did have a rushing touchdown and he did have, you know, 50 something plus yards. But the last two weeks to me seems like there's been a way heavier emphasis for him in getting in being able to do that with teams, whereas we're, not so like we're not talking nearly as much about the completion percentage and the throws that he's not making because he's making up for it in other ways right and i i think that if

he takes one more step here wait a minute does that sound like it sounds like a pie chart maybe to you that there might be because that was going to be my next question is like how high can the ceiling but that sounds like a really good pie chart question so uh why don't you get out the the pencil and paper and you know i don't have either of those here Here's what the pie chart question is going to be. At the end of this season, Caleb Williams will be viewed as blank. And the options for you are an all-pro MVP,

a pro-bowler top 12 type of quarterback. Okay. A average-ish quarterback with his good and bad moments. or still pretty meh maybe like 18th in the league those are your four pie charts options it will not be a very hard one for me oh okay all right maybe you've thought about well i was you know i'm trying to trying to simplify the pie char here as maybe good coaches do for their young quarterbacks you know i appreciate that it's kind of like you know it's um you're working for me you're working to make sure that you get the best out of me and and i get that

like that's that's a very good place to be all right so i've got 80 plus 5 85 100 minus 85 is 15 okay i am ready oh wow that's record timing that was wow that is record timing i didn't even have to get into the music i know you doubted me like you absolutely had like all this doubt lined up to be ready to like just hurl at me but you know what i overcame why good you know what the next pie chart's going to be a nightmare for you this one was an easy one because that's what everybody wants to know from you. So I set you up on a tee as a fastball right down the middle and you jacked it out of the park like Sammy Sosa.

But let's hear it. Let's hear the pie. All right. Let's start with we'll go in order. So all pro MVP, he's the best like, you know, great trajectory. I put it at 5% because this is still year one of this offense. There have been like I was talking with the coach on the Giants the other day pregame. And I was like, so what do you think about his development?

like what do you see from Caleb on tape? He's like, it's a roller coaster. And that's not the first time that I've heard that from the opposing people on the opposing team. He has great moments. He has moments where you're like, oh, can they coach that out of him? Is he reverting? Because there have been times since the Saints game, I'll say, because they end up losing in Baltimore, where I felt like there was a little bit of regression.

I thought that he had two really solid games, certainly in Washington. And then before that, the second half of the Raiders game. came solid. And then I felt like he kind of regressed a little bit, especially at the end of the first half, that middle eight first half going into the third quarter against the Saints, they pull out the win. But then what happened in Baltimore, like that, that to me was like, all right, there's still a lot of room for growth. So I put all pro MVP at 5% because it's going to take some time. Pro bowl are top 12 quarterback, you know, one of the better ones that you're talking about among the like not MVP candidates, but a step below. I put that at 30%. I think

think that if if this goes according to plan and ben johnson chose to come here because he believed that he could take caleb williams and make him into the quarterback of his dreams then this is like the absolute best case scenario you like instant like we're picking up his fifth year option sort of talk just like this is the guy it's just going to take another year but this is the guy i put that at 30% average isish with good and bad moments has the highest for me I put that at 50% because there are still too many times where you look at things that Caleb does. You're like, that's great in the fourth quarter, like in the two-minute drill. He's got the second best QBR in the final two minutes of either half right behind Zach Prescott.

He's great in those moments. But when you are asking him to play in structure, can he still stay there and get done what he needs to get done? There's still those moments where I'm like, he's got to work on that. but I say average-ish with good and bad. We've seen good and bad moments his entire season. Even in game one against the Vikings when they lost, there were some good moments from him. And then the offense, you know,

the offense kind of gave it away there in the fourth quarter. So I say because it's been a roller coaster and because I still anticipate the second half of the season being up and down, I say 50%. And then meth, like he falls off a cliff. I mean, he is facing some pretty good defenses coming up here. So that's 15%. Like, you got it.

So I did it. The math is right. You got it. The math is right. Yeah. I know. Wow. I'm proud of myself.

That is two straight pie charts. The last pie chart was so successful and with such ease that people actually wondered if the game was rigged. Like people actually said Courtney cheats. It's the script, you know? Right. Exactly. I was given the pie chart criteria ahead of time, right? Yeah.

Not, it has never happened. That will never happen. And if you make a mistake, then that's, that is real. in this case you did not that worst case scenario though if it were to regress back to what it looked like last year because what would you call this like the 15th best quarterback playing the league 17th best i mean i yeah like somewhere in that ballpark top 15 top 20 quarterback play let's see where is he pf f is the 10th graded which i think is maybe a little bit higher than i would expect, but also his run grade, his run grade is the seventh best in the league. So I think

the overall run grade as a passer, 15th, 15th as a passer, which makes sense. And that, that would be the best place. Like, not, you know, because I don't, I don't know if they are a playoff team. I really don't. They're six and three right now. I think that it's back at end of the schedule where you have Green Bay twice. You've got Detroit to close out the year, which very well could be for the division. You've got the Vikings. You've got the Eagles. You've got the Steelers, like there's no gimmies in there, except for maybe the Browns. But the Browns still have a good defense. Like, they went toe to toe with the Giants, the worst fourth quarter team in the league,

and they only won by four. So it would be unfair to think that anything other than middle of the pack, but the trajectory and the arrows going up is anything other than like, that's expected, I think, at this point. It would be a disappointment if it's anything but that. But I just think it's too soon to start, you know, putting all these, like, you know, oh, he's going to be this, he's going to be that. He's going to be able to, like, go into hostile environments and not have penalties be an issue,

not have, you know, pre-snap stuff. Like, it's still procedural stuff with the offense, which has tapered down a little bit the last couple weeks. But I think he's in a good spot. And I think the growth is there. Now, if it looks, if it goes back to looking like it did weeks one and two, then you know that you have an issue. but I think that they've got some good, like, safeguards in place.

I think the offensive line has played better. I think that the offense as a whole. Ben Johnson is a play caller. Getting the run game going in week six was a huge thing, like for this offense to be able to have some staying power here. And then now your quarterback wants to be a part of it, which I think is great. It's been a really interesting journey for the Vikings defense

against opposing teams run games because Kamani Vidal was amazing against them, but not Saquan Barkley or Javier Gibbs or Derek Henry. And Kenneth Gainwell had an amazing game also against the Vikings. So that's like can't predict football type of thing. But I do notice that D'Andre Swift and this gentleman who's reminding me of Leroy Horde or maybe maybe like a rich man's mad Asiata, Malung guy. Is that how you say his name? I mean,

Manung guy. Manung guy. Sorry, Manung guy. Yeah. I mean, wow. Like this guy's a bowling ball. So it feels like they can finally lean on the run game.

Unlike years past of Chicago. quarterbacks since what, Thomas Jones? I mean, it feels like it has just not been something that they could really lean into. Yeah, because, you know, they diverted so much to that with Justin Fields that they became one dimensional and a very easy to beat offense. And sometimes I do wonder if there is this inherent sense for Caleb of, I need to win with my arm and prove I can win with my arm. And whether that means doing it from the pocket, whether that means getting out and making a throw on the run. I've got to do that first before I just take off and run. And there's been a conscious effort the last couple of weeks, especially when they're in the red zone, use your

legs when you can. And you didn't see much of it in Cincinnati until late. Like that to me was the turning point where that critical third down and he picks up 14 yards. He's like, oh, wait, I can do this. That sets up the touchdown pass. Then last week, at 29-yard rush, he had down to the two-yard line was the longest of his NFL career. And then, then he runs in a 17-yard scramble touchdown. Like, those are good things that I think it's like, oh, is the light bulb turning on? And like, I asked DJ more about this after the game. And he gives very honest assessment about the quarterback.

And he's like, I think he's got the green light to do this more. It's like, well, why is that? Well, defense is like if they're playing two men, if they're playing quarters, if they're playing man and man, then if things are covered up downfield, it doesn't, like you're supposed to be the guy who when the play's dead, you make something happen. And I think he now realizes, oh, I have a window to do this. I have an opportunity to do this. And, you know, it's not like, they never want to have what happened in week one be the norm where he finishes as their leading rusher. But I think that they've gotten to a place now where they're like encouraging Caleb

Moore to run in those critical moments, especially on those third downs or anything in the red zone. And it's benefiting the offense because he can be a playmaker. He can make guys miss. He's not Lamar Jackson by any stretch. but he's a dangerous threat with his legs. He was against, obviously against the Bengals defense and the Giants didn't have an answer for him in the fourth quarter either.

52 of his 63 rushing yards came in that fourth quarter. And this will be the very interesting balance of how he decides, whether he's going to scramble or not against the Vikings. He's had a lot of success scrambling against the Vikings. We don't know Jonathan Grenard status for this game at this point, which is big as well. but the one thing they didn't really do was stick with the run and have a lot of consistent success with it in that week one game when Chicago was up. If that happens again, I feel like it's improved enough to the point where they would do that and try to force the Vikings to use bigger personnel,

try to force them to sell out more for the run and create opportunities there. I want to get a thought on the defense, but something popped into my brain that I wanted to circle back with with Caleb Williams, which is right before the season, and I mean right before it, Tyler Dunn drops this huge piece that goes into an insane amount of detail about the mess that was last year. And I don't think that anybody disputed

that it was a disaster with the handling, with Matt Eber Fluse, with Shane Waldron, and all that stuff. But what I'm curious about is because you're there with him, how Caleb Williams handled that himself. I mean, I'm sure, everyone in the organization was super pleased that all of their former employees talked to a reporter and just aired all of their grievances.

But from his perspective, I feel like a young quarterback getting hit with a cement truck of a report about what happened could have made a real mess for him. It doesn't seem like it did. How did he navigate through that? So the hard thing with that was that that story drops on. want to say a Friday afternoon, like the real dagger part of it dropped on a Friday or a Saturday morning. They were on a Monday night schedule. So Caleb had already talked for the week. By the time he talked on Wednesday, it was, yeah, Wednesday because they were off that Thursday.

We had the Monday night game. So he never had to address it initially. So I kind of think he was saved by the timing of that because there were some pretty heavy claims in there. Just, you know, I mean, work ethics one thing. Like, you know, getting criticized for, you know, you're can't, you know, you're not around the building enough, like you're bitching at us about not coaching you hard enough. Like we want, you know, we're trying and you're not receptive of it. I mean, some of the claims about his, him having a learning disability being like a big reason why he wasn't able to, you know, be a successful quarterback. I tried to stay as far away from that as possible because that's a very heavy claim to get with unnamed sources. That's just my, you know, my ethical, like,

opinion on that. And it's a hard thing then for a quarterback to, like, do you bring it up yourself? Do you talk about it? Like, I don't think he ever really had to address it, which is why he's almost kind of gotten off to a degree in like having to like face that head on. Sure, he knew it was out there. Everybody in their mother knew it was out there. And that was the biggest story going into that game against the Vikings in week one. But I think just the timing of it. saved him because the only person who would have addressed it would have been that Saturday morning, Ben Johnson, like kind of danced around it a little bit. Like there was a question that was asked that didn't directly say, hey, there is this report, but it's like he

wasn't here. All he's seen is is the stuff that he's going to tout highly with his quarterback, that he believes the quarterback is the guy. He has got the right work ethic. He's improving every week in training camp. Let's go get ready for the season. Like it was a bomb show. shell for sure. But I think the timing, honestly, saved the organization from having to address some of those pretty heavy claims that were in there. I also think that if Matt Eberflus was still the head coach, then it would have been something that you, if that whole staff was still there and that kind of thing. But having it be the past, it's like, here's what happened. But that doesn't mean that that that has to continue happening with Caleb Williams. Doesn't have to be

indicative of the future. Because I mean, the, the rhetoric around the team at that point was that everything was going to change. Everything was different. You've got Ben John. and chewing guys out in practice for lining up a yard off. And, you know, there was a different level of accountability around this team that I think almost insulated them from this story being like, okay, yeah, we know last year was a shit show. It sucked. Like, there was nothing good about last year outside of a couple moments early in the season. All right, well, it's 2025.

But they can, they had the convenient excuse or convenient reasoning, rather, of like, hey, we've already turned the page. Like, we don't need to talk about this. So I guess if they wanted a bigger impact, if you want a bigger impact with that story, you probably drop it during OTAs. You probably drop it right at the end of the, again, it takes a long time to report those things, but you do it far sooner than week one because it didn't exactly, I don't know, it didn't really, I don't think it had the impact that many were thinking it would as far as

like derailing things before they really got started. Yeah, it seemed like a lot, there was a moving on from the organization and from Caleb from that previous year. Yeah. So I want to ask you about the defense, but I want you to pretend that you're putting on a defensive coordinator's hat. So give me, like, you know, sit there you go. You got, okay, now, okay, hi, Dennis. I have to put it on, like, zip in the back.

Okay, get it right there. So now speaking with Dennis Allen, the defensive coordinator, and, you know, Dennis has had a few drinks here. So he's going to be willing to tell us everything that the bears are going to do against J.J. McCarthy. Dennis, what is your plan? against a young J.J. McCarthy who has had some ups and down, some exciting moments, some big mistakes. Will you blitz him? Will you play more coverage? What's your thoughts, D.A.? Well, look, you know, he's a talented football player. They've got a lot of respect for that staff over there. They get paid just like we get paid. He's a young talented quarterback.

Man, we've got to be prepared for everything. All that aside, I did actually do a good, like, well, look. is like how I think he it's kind of like when Rick Spielman used to start every sentence with again and be like there's no continuing thought here it's a new thing please don't say again to start um I think with JJ and like this is the third young quarterback they will have faced since week seven and it's a quarterback who made some substantial mistakes last week against the Ravens with those two early interceptions and what they've done to compensate for the pass rush. Like, it's gotten a little bit better, like marginally. Like, I think last week was better, but the run defense was so exposed. And now it's so funny, everybody likes to play revisionist history with Dio Dengbo, their starting defense event who went out with an Achilles rupture. Like, oh, like, no, we really miss him because he's such a good run defender. And then they didn't have a spy on Jackson Dart for whatever Godforsaken reason. I don't think it was missing Dio O'Dango. I think it was a bad game plan for a mobile quarterback who you knew was going to do this to you.

but they haven't done a good job containing mobile quarterbacks like Tyler Huntley or to Jackson Dart. Good thing. That's not JJ McCarthy. So I think that in terms of pressure, in terms of what they're getting now out of Montes, sweat, who sort of feels like he's been in a rhythm, it's been quiet. It was quiet early on, but he's got, you know, four sacks in the last four games. I think what they've discovered with the nickel blitz that they've had, I mean, Kyler Gordon was, is excellent with it, but he's not playing.

of C.J. Gardner Johnson has two, had two sacks last week, you know, his first multi-sack game. I think that that's still a very big part of, you know, some of the third down packages being able to throw different looks at a young quarterback like he did against Spencer Rattler a couple weeks ago, where you don't expect him to have seen everything at this point. Now, the areas where they're still vulnerable are on the back end of this defense. Like, you know, they were in a market it for another to sign another corner. They were supposed to get Asante Samuel Jr. Here yesterday, he ends up signing with the Steelers.

Like, they're very thin back there. They don't have a lot of wiggle room, which is why the Gardner Johnson signing was such a big deal. But it's, I think from a defensive standpoint, like, you've got to figure out what the heck's going on with, like, stopping, you know, the run in general. I don't think you anticipate as much of a running threat from this quarterback. But there are ways to pressure him that I think you can take advantage of, especially with some of the injuries that the Vikings have up front, too, on the offensive line and being able

to, they always talk about, like, oh, we've got to find these one-on-one matchups for Montes sweats. Okay, well, then manufacture them. Like, it's really not that difficult at the end of the day to be able to, to be able to rely on your best pass rusher, to be your best pass rusher, your highest paid defensive players. So I think, I think they've been in a good rhythm against some mediocre teams and some banged-up offensive lines. I think that they can carry that same strategy over and expect that they'll do decently well against, against, you know, J.J. McCarthy and the Vikings. However, you know, when you look at like the coverage element, Justin Jefferson, he'll get targeted 12 times. I have no doubt about that. Now, will he catch those

passes? Will he, you know, will it look similar to last week's stat line? I think that's to be determined. But I do think that a big part of like what they're going to have to do is just know that you're being giving up catches to Justin Jefferson. So you have to blanket your cover. and do the best you can with it, but also limit Jordan Addison, limit Jalen, Jalen Ayler, Hawkinson, all of it. All right, you can take your Dennis Allen hat off now. That was a great breakdown. I would say that, well, from an offensive line health perspective,

they are the healthiest they've been all year. They still are playing a backup center. And that's where there are some pressure opportunities. Blake Brandel has been better over the last couple weeks. But when he's had a mismatch or when they've really attacked up the middle, that's where teams have been able to create some pressure. And J.J. McCarthy versus the Blitz has been a journey. Last week, he actually had some of his best reps against the Blitz.

The week before, he really struggled against it. So it's hard to say, like, is that kind of the answer? I do think they have to worry about McCarthy's legs because he scrambles a lot when he's not seeing something downfield. Like, that's, I mean, last week, there were a few different times where it was, all right, you know, he's going to try to make a play. throwing the ball first, but then if he can't, then he's going to scramble and take off. Probably not at the same rate as some of the other quarterbacks you're talking about, though. I think he does want to be and O'Connell wants him to be the pocket quarterback.

And when it comes to the run, this has been just a big debate here, big conversation here. I don't think that the Bears can stop the Vikings run game with, you know, better offensive line and Derisaw in there and Donovan Jackson. But I don't know that Kevin O'Connell's will stick with it. and maybe he got enough shamed after last week by everyone for not running enough that he will make an adjustment there and they will lean into the run game a lot more and stick with it. But that's just never really been who he is.

So what it comes down to probably is how does J.J. McCarthy perform out of clean pockets and against blitzes because I'm looking at last week of the pressures and pass rush snaps. And there are a lot of, as you said, like Gardner Johnson rushing, Tremaine Edwin, Edmonds rushing, Noah Sewell rushing. Like there are a lot of other players coming after it, right, Brisker, the quarterback, whether it's simulated pressures or whether it's blitzes. And I think JJ is going to have to deal with that. That didn't start until like recently.

I want to say that that was kind of a week six onward thing. Like for whatever reason, he had like the, you know, you look at his history as a defensive play caller during his however many 15 years with the Saints. Like collectively, he had like a, he was top 10 in pressure. great because a big portion of that was because of the blitz packages that he used. I don't know why early on they felt like, okay, we're just going to win with four because that didn't work with his last defense. And he's been much more aggressive since, let's say, like the Washington game at being

able to dial up pressure and identify those opportunities to get your corners or get your DBs involved. I mean, Tremaine Edmonds, you brought his name up. The system is just better for him. and what he's being asked to do going from, you know, playing, you know, obviously he came in here, was asked to play one linebacker spot, had to change, like from his time in Buffalo was the first round pick, moved on, you know, the change would be between Mike and Will for him, I think is really opened up a world of possibility for him, but also for Dennis Allen and what he's calling on him

to do to be able to be an offball linebacker and be, you know, relied upon to get after the quarterback every once in a while. Like, he's a big dude in the middle of the field. He's six, five. Like, there's a lot there. I think that with his physical tools that was not tapped into by the last staff, that I think they've really said, okay, we're not going to mess around like this one this time.

All right. Let me ask you a big picture question here. When Ryan Poles and Quasi Adolph-Menzza were both hired same year, I remember writing. This is like a battle of the builds. And they're going to do it two different ways. And Ryan Poles took a flamethrower to that entire roster. They tanked.

They went all the way to the bottom. They end up drafting Caleb Williams. The Vikings said competitive rebuild. Last year, that looked brilliant. This year it does not look as brilliant at this moment. When will we know who won the battle of the builds between Ryan Poles and Quasi, dafflemenza? I think when you see who the quarterback is on the roster in 2027.

For both teams. Both teams. And how that quarterback's doing. Because obviously for them to be in position to trade up to go get JJ, you think, They loved him. They thought, okay, we want this guy. Because remember, Caleb visited Minnesota and was raving about Kevin O'Connell. That was a big part.

I know we talked about Tyler Dunn's story, but remember Seth Wickersham's book came out earlier in the year. And that was a big part about how much Caleb, which he did address in the spring, like, he enjoyed his visit with Kevin O'Connell with the Vikings. But obviously, they didn't have the number one overall picks. They couldn't get it. I think that there will always be that element here. But I think it will have to be, like, to know how the rebuild's doing, like, are the Vikings moving on from J.J. McCarthy, the Bears moving on from Caleb Williams by that point, because that would be year four. And if that would mean that something goes terribly wrong, the back end of this season for both teams, and that next year sets up for failure. To me, it's centered still around the quarterback because of what that quarterback draft class was because you have two proven guys, three proven guys already.

Bo Nix, I know he's had an up and down. The offense has been terrible for them the last couple of weeks, but he's still a really good quarterback, and he's shown it. He made the playoffs in his first year. Jane Daniels is hurt. Needs to have a better, needs to have a better, I guess, weight training program, but also pass protection, all of those things. I understand what he's dealing with right now.

He still went to the NFC championship his first year. Drake May looks fantastic in this offense. He should cut down in the sacks, however. But there's three quarterbacks out of a six quarterback first round draft class that you have answers on. By that point, you absolutely have to have the answers on Caleb and JJ to know, like, or either team, like, if either team was, it would be catastrophic if either team was like, yep, like these aren't our guys writings on the wall. But I think whoever wins that battle, maybe it's, maybe it's both. But like that to me was the key to the rebuilding for both teams

to be able to get the quarterback for the Vikings to move out from under a contract that had become an albatross with Kurt Cous to go get their guy. And for the bears to finally get somebody that they could draft and develop for the first time literally ever. I like that way of evaluating it. I think I might look at it as who gets a playoff when while their quarterback is on the rookie contract. Sure. I think that factors into mine too because you got to win with them when they're cheap. Right. Exactly. So yes, the contract will signify that, hey, we bought it to this guy fully.

We got our guy. But also everybody's trying to take advantage of their rookie quarterback window, which I think causes a lot of teams to make mistakes with young quarterbacks and lean into them too quickly and have too much pressure on their franchise, which is definitely a Vikings type of thing that, you know, I agreed with their approach to lean into that, you know, and spend around the young quarterback. But as we know, if it doesn't work, then you're in a lot of trouble because there's so much pressure on that kid. But whichever team gets a playoff win and has a chance to legitimately compete in the playoffs and the divisional round and so forth, I think probably, ended up winning it and right now i don't know if i would bet on either one of these teams this year and we'll see it into the future uh what questions do you have uh for me what do you want to know who shot jfk uh the guy on the grassy know i think that's obvious okay i just i've been wondering that yeah russia um what's going on with brian flores in this defense because the game

plan against Lamar Jackson last week. Like, I get containing, containing Jared Goff and what they did in Detroit. Like, that was great. They were able to get one over on Detroit for the first time, it feels like forever with, with him as D.C. And then it feels like it just completely reverted course last week. Do you think he still takes that same approach that he's always had with Caleb Williams? And remember, like, we came in a week one thing, oh, he's going to blitz the hell out of him

because that's what they did last year. And then it, like, barely happened. Like, how do they, how do they do it this time? So last week, I thought that the defense in terms of how many points they allowed was really a product of the offense failing. And one of the touchdowns that they scored was on a fumbled kickoff. So they get it and they go in. Overall, I think that the defense was pretty happy with how they performed against a Baltimore team that has one of the best quarterbacks in history, probably. Lamar Jackson, you know, I think the biggest thing is for them that when opposing teams could run the ball,

that if they felt helpless. I mean, just even against the Pittsburgh Steelers, for example, where they're running and running and running. They're putting six offensive linemen out there. And then Rogers just has to make a couple of short throws and get yards after catch and they're totally fine. I think what it comes down to now in this game is that the receivers for Chicago are very, very talented.

And the coverage is still questionable. Theo Jackson's coming back from a concussion. You know, you've had Josh Mattelis playing a lot back at normal safety spot, which I don't think is his best position. Isaiah Rogers has given up a ton of big plays. Byron Murphy Jr. has not played at the same level that he did last year in terms of creating splash plays. And Harrison Smith is the age that Harrison Smith is. They've been beat a lot. And even last week, there were times where they didn't tackle well in terms of yards after catch.

So I think that in terms of the rush plan against Caleb, it's probably going to be what it always. always is, which is rush outside, stay in your lanes, try to contain him, and then whether that happens or not is depends on whether you actually tackle him or not. But I think the biggest factor for them is if they create one-on-one matchups, I don't know that the Vikings win the one-on-one matchups against Roma Dunzee against DJ Moore. And, you know, the tight ends actually had a good game. I think for the Ravens, I don't remember the statistics, but they got some plays off against them in the middle of the field, which is where the most openings

tend to be against this Vikings defense. So, yeah, they've improved quite a bit. But if they run, they'll be totally fine. Like, if any offense runs against this team, but they've fixed a lot, I think, over the last couple weeks against the run. Okay. My second question, because I know

that KOC tried to downplay it as being a product of officiating and why Justin Jefferson was frustrated. But what happened on that last play where it looked like body language which wise was not maybe his best moment out there. And how does he come away with, what was it, four catches? Yeah, on 12 targets.

Yeah. Well, I think I counted about six of them. He had no chance whatsoever. One of them, he dropped right in the hands, needed to catch the ball, needed to go in for a touchdown there. It's maybe a very different game if he catches the ball and goes in for a touchdown. I saw somebody had the wind probability impacted was significant there. His body language, I think, was the first time I have ever seen him look like that,

where he looked dejected that that's just not him i had never seen that before so like seeing like replay and highlights i'm like whoa is something is he frustrated in this offense is it you know the product of what by the time that jj came back didn't he only have one touchdown like the first seven games seven weeks this season yeah i mean this is a guy who expects to be leading the league and receiving not not expects to be getting 50 yards a game i mean he's had 50 yards a game with J.J. McCarthy is the quarterback. And when you're running routes and getting open and the ball is not getting to you on time, it's flying over your head. I mean, I think that any wide receiver on earth would start to get a little upset. And I just don't want to do that thing where we're like, oh, is you diva? Not like, that's not fair. That's not who he's been for a really long time. But frustration. And, you know, the referees, yeah, there were a player two there where, you know, I mean, the one where he falls down, I think maybe he thought that. There could have been an interference call or something, but him to get up and just walk after the Marlon Humphrey was, that's not how he usually plays. So I think that that was, I think that was a little bit of a signal to everybody, how frustrated.

And look, this is playing with the young quarterback. You saw it from the receivers last year from Chicago playing with a young quarterback, dealing with inaccuracies, dealing with mistakes. They jumped, I mean, they jumped eight times in the game. They had eight false starts in the game, which is insane and almost impossible. I mean, the Bears had that. Like for their, what was the game? Um, they were winning games and still having issues like that. It might have been against the Saints.

They had 11 penalties against Baltimore, which was like just, you know, that's when Ben Johnson's like, we're going to do some unorthy, or their offense coordinator, Declan Doyle's like, we're going to do some unorthodox things in practice to stop this. It's like, what are you using? Like shock treatment. Somebody does it. Blue 40. Oh, no, no.

No, no, wrong one, wrong one. Red, red, red. Omaha. It's just like that was, the pre-snap stuff here for the last couple weeks, it's gone down. But like when I heard that stack, because like I was keeping up with the game when ours was going on. And then I see you guys tweeting about it. I'm like, that feels like what the bears were going through. And like, but the bears have gone through that like weekly where it's been an issue.

Like last couple games has been cleaner. But holy moly, that was that was bad. Eight false starts. All right. Favorite Bears Vikings moment that you've covered. probably when you were here because I don't know if we've had that much, you know, excited. I mean, McCarthy, you know, week one was exciting, but that was, yeah, and that was a great game.

But usually we lead towards strange or funny. Yeah. Um, I mean, great would be probably 2017, the Harrison Smith interception and Case Keenum on the road, leading them to their first win at Soldier Field and God knows how long. Marwan Maloof and Mike Zimmer, trying to. fight each other on the sideline during the COVID game at soldier at soldier field um because they kicked off to cordarral patterson and zimmer yes and he returned it like a hundred yards for a touchdown and you could see him on the sideline like saying like why did you kick to him and then in the post uh or in the

next week when we asked marwan about that he said he would fight anyone and we were like i don't back down from anybody okay are you kind of threatening to fight mike like is that how we're supposed to take this or I don't know with that season why not yeah that was that was insane they won that game by the way they did they did that was like two times in three three seasons that they won at soldier field which is again like weird because this team this Vikings team and like the 2010s just never won here but now like I mean I go back to that week one game and I think about all of the missed opportunities for Chicago in letting that team back in after you had the you know the pick six and letting the defense kind of carry you and then all of a sudden the missed field goal and just

kind of the snowball effect from there not great and I get they'll be happy to be indoors I can tell you that after playing in that weather game last week or it just it might not have snowed as much as we thought it was windy and that uh they've had a couple of those this year the weather game in uh Washington and then last week and Cincinnati was even pretty windy too so going indoors. I mean, we'll all be happy about that. The other one that popped into my mind was when Tyson Bajon came off the bench when Justin Fields got hurt and none of us knew who Tyson Bajum was. And someone in the press box said very loudly, this guy lost to the school of minds.

And I'm like, what? And then he almost won the game. Then he almost came back at once. That was because they decided to like let Justin held onto the ball for like 15 seconds. Yes. Flight exaggeration. And then Daniel Hunter like ended him. That's what happens. Yeah, not an exaggeration. And then benching Nathan Peterman because he was playing too well for two.

Because they had to keep that. They had to keep that number one overall pick in line. And I mean, I was a great decision. Yeah. Great decision because of what happened like minutes after their game ends. And then obviously what happened in Indianapolis between the Houston, Texans and the Colts worked in their favor. Good foreshadowing.

It's always memorable. We could say that. Courtney Cronin, always memorable on the show as well. And congratulations to a great. pie chart that I did not necessarily see coming. So thank you for your time and we'll see you on Sunday. See you Sunday.