Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - ESPN's Courtney Cronin compares Bears and Vikings free agency

Episode Date: March 20, 2025

Both the Vikings and Bears were incredibly active in free agency. Matthew Coller is joined by ESPN's Courtney Cronin to compare the two teams' free agencies and where they're at in their roster builds.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Coller here and look who it is. ESPN's Courtney Cronin on the road covering some women's basketball tournament, but nice enough to take some time in a random hotel to talk football with us about the Vikings and Bears off season. You know, I'm looking at Vegas odds the other day, Courtney, and Vegas is getting fooled again on the Bears. Isn't it amazing? Last year. Oh yeah. Bears will finish ahead of the Vikings and then already here. Oh yeah. The big money's on the Bears with their new head coach. What do you think?

I mean, do they deserve the off season winner award? Do they get a gold star again for that? They got one last year and then they fell on their face. So I don't think I don't blame anybody for not giving them the benefit of the doubt this time around of wanting to see if this if these are all these moves, they spent one hundred and forty million plus in free agency. I still don't blame people for being like let's pump the brakes on this to like not like go ahead and crown them before they've actually done anything but free agency was weird this year. The combine was

weird this year. Like when your team doesn't have the number one pick in back-to-back years it's like what do I do with my hands? It's exactly how I felt the last couple of weeks because this was the most clear cut, address this position, address this position, don't screw it up sort of free agency period that I think I've covered in a very long time covering the NFL. Well, I think what we saw from Ben Johnson is arriving with a plan and going out to

get Jonah Jackson and Joe Tooney was the most Ben Johnson thing that I could have expected them to do. But the question is going to remain no matter what is Caleb just going to get sacked anyway. That's just going to be the thing from last year where if you go by the blocking grades, it wasn't like the offensive line with some horror show. The guy just held on the ball forever. So I'm curious about what Ben Johnson has been saying about Caleb Williams. I know that it's all the hype, but he wouldn't have taken the job

if not for Caleb, I'm sure. So what is the plan to stop him from being Saki McSack face? Yeah, 68 of those last year, which I it's not all on the offensive line, which we know. And I remember Caleb, like, had this impassioned plea, week 15 or 16, where he's like, it's not all the offensive line. I've taken a lot of stupid sacks and, you know, the kid screaming in the corner of the room, we're like, yes, like, we understand, but the offensive line is also not very good. And the Bears told us that by flipping the entire

interior in six days with two trades. They looked at the offensive line market, they looked at the guard market and said, eh, we don't really want to overpay. No disrespect to Will Fries, no disrespect to anybody else that was in that mix. Ryan Kelly, two guys that I thought were really good pickups for the Minnesota Vikings, but the Bears went about it in a different way to go get your two guards and then spend, you know, a pretty big amount on Drew Dahlman. And that's their way of saying, Caleb, it wasn't all on you last year. We realized you hold on to the ball too long. You, you know, you, you, this progression-based offense, you were doing too much.

But like the excuses of you now not having a good offensive line are null and void. long, you know, this progression-based offense, you were doing too much, but like the excuses of you now not having a good offensive line are null and void. So to me, I walked away from free agency thinking the Bears love this guy. They love him so much they got him effectively a brand new offensive line, and they're saying now you need to do your part. And that's, I think, a very fair expectation even though he's going into year two, he's learning a new offense with Ben Johnson, he's got some growing to do,

he's probably got some habits he's gotta break. Ben Johnson and the way that he's talked about Caleb, I took this job for you, but I can't do it without some help around you. Now they've got the help around him, now it's time to deliver. And again, it's March, they don't even have an O yet, like they'll have one in early April because they have a new coaching staff. This is gonna be a long off season to see if the investments

that they made, just like last year, we thought, oh like best situation ever for a quarterback, you know, at least in the last 30 years Caleb walks in and it is an uphill climb from the onset because no one was on the same page. The offense was not good. They neglected the biggest thing that they needed to fix last offseason, which was the offensive line. Now that they've handled that, now I think you can really start to put their feet to the fire and be like, are you a good football team or not?

Do you have good evaluators or not? Are you making the right decisions for this roster? And if the answer is yes, then you're going to see a team that looks a lot better than five and 12. A lot better. I think that has to be the expectation. Oh, yeah. No kidding. I mean, last year, you consider how many games that they blew in close fashion.

That would be just alone. If those had flipped the other way, it's probably more reflective of how good they actually were. As more of a 500 type of football team. And then they love the one score record. They love being like, look, if we would have done this, like, well, you didn't. You're right. You are what your record says you are. And yes, they blew a lot of those games because of the defense,

which they also addressed in free agency. And we'll see if those moves pan out in a new scheme that won't be playing a lot of prevent in the final two minutes Um, i'm curious to see how how that part because all of those is you know The eight straight losses before eberfluss was fired and how many of them came down to? Not being a blowout because they were like right there That tells you about like it is a team Good enough to rebound from that to get over the hump? Or is that just who they are?

Last year, that's who the bears were. I also think that some of the offensive line stuff from last year, like the PFF grading and stuff was they, the linemen were helped in their grades by the fact they didn't throw downfield very often. Yeah. Like there were a lot of reps where they just had to do nothing on a screen. And Caleb, I think had the highest percentage in the league of passes that were under 10 yards because they were just trying to get him

to play regular football a little bit, throw a screen, throw a quick pass. That was like the answer to him running around like a wild man every single time they looked for an intermediate throw. That's the biggest thing that has to change. But I wonder what you think schematically will be different. We have seen the Vikings struggle a lot against Ben Johnson,

but they also have a lot to work with in Detroit. It's still going to be a better line than Chicago has. But I think that he's going to build everything off of the run game for Caleb and try to make it very Jared Goff ask of throw it where you're supposed to throw it. And then every once in a while be great as opposed to try to be great all the time. And then in that Vikings game, it's so fun to watch. But in a lot of other games, just getting sacked like a madman. So I think that they are going to try to go to more of a run first thing,

which I buy into more in today's league than I would have five years ago where running is kind of winning. It is. And I know that Ben Johnson and we like we think of Detroit 30, 40 points a game on the regular. Let they score a ton. Jared Goff three straight, 4,000 yard seasons, 2,000 yard receivers. That's all wonderful.

Everything starts with the run game, though, when you look at what Ben Johnson builds his offenses on. That's why it was so important for them two years ago to go use the number 12 pick on Jameer Gibbs. And I just got off my podcast talking about Ashton Gentry. Like had they not just done what they did on the offensive line, I still would fall in the camp of guys everybody slow your roll. Like they need XYZ up front first before they're drafting a running back. Now I'm a little bit more open to the idea if he's there first and foremost, he's probably, you know, most drafts haven't gone to the Raiders because it's not like they're drafting

a quarterback at six. But like I think you should be open to that idea knowing who the head coach is, knowing that Ben Johnson was a big proponent of use good draft capital, use marquee draft capital on a game changing running back. If that guy is somebody you can factor into the run game and to the pass game. And what Jameer Gibbs did for Detroit, especially like last season too, I mean he led the league in rushing touchdowns, led Detroit in rushing, but also had a huge role in what he did in the screen game, in the passing game, giving your quarterback the outlets.

What was it? I'm looking at it right now. 52 catches for 517 yards and four touchdowns. They don't have that running back on the roster right now. That's probably not DeAndre Swift. But if you're trying to recreate Sonic and Knuckles with you know, Jemir Gibbs and David Montgomery then that should point to what they're gonna do in the draft at some point and then running back group is deep enough.

It's very, you know, it's a deep class where they don't have to do it at 10, but man I think they need a significant upgrade there because like you pointed out everything's gonna start with that run game. You know me I love the boots. I think that Caleb Williams would benefit from a heavy dose of the boots and I think that Ben Johnson's going to dial up the play-action stuff that for whatever reason Shane Waldron was allergic to last year and they really just couldn't. I think obviously blocking and you know having a better offensive line will help you sell that better to where you're gonna roll your quarterback away from pressure. But in the process of doing that, you're not just having him go on the run and try to keep plays alive and play backyard football.

You're designing it to a point to get him off his spot and make him an effective passer where you're using his movement to your advantage. And it's scripted movement, if that's probably the bright way to phrase it. Well, when it comes to Gentie, I think there's a good case for it in part because of what this draft looks like. I mean, even if you go at the top, Abdul Carter, I think is special. Travis Hunter, I think is special. After that, there's always these asterisks next to each guy.

Well, you know, he doesn't have that great a production, but did you see his combine and things like that? There isn't that group of, hey, this is can't miss freakish type prospects at edge rusher. A defensive tackle has some really good ones, but I don't know if it has that. Oh, my gosh, this guy is going to be the next Warren Sapp type of guy, which to me says you can spend a high pick on Gentie. The other thing is too, that I know he played a Boise state, but by the numbers,

even in a great class, he is so far and away, whether you're looking at the raw numbers or the analytical numbers, his elusiveness rating is breakaway rating, like all those things. This guy is really on a different level. So I don't think it's as bad of a pick as maybe I would have thought of drafting or running back in previous years. And part of that is like when the, when the lions did draft Jameer Gibbs, I remember draft night, a lot of Vikings fans being like, ah, lions, they're

not as smart as they think. You're like, well, you got to play them though. And playing him has not worked out very well for the Vikings. I think that could also influence Ben Johnson as well and Ryan Poles is that when the Lions played the Vikings, Jameer Gibbs was the guy that smashed them. You want to try to emulate that. Folks I'm trying a new thing to try to stop going to fast food restaurants all the time with my busy schedule.

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They know how difficult that is to defend and I think for Ben Johnson given all that He knows about this division all that he knows about this division, all that he knows about, how he built that offense over three years as the OC, I think there's the meeting between him and Ryan Poles, the first thing he said when I asked him about, can you replicate this offensive line in Chicago? And he was like, yes, I think we can. He flipped that thing in a matter of six days, they did,

with the trades and then going to sign, you drew dolmen, your new center. Like, and you actually have a true center playing the center position, not a converted guard. Like they've already met a lot of priorities of what Ben Johnson said, this needs to happen in order for us to be a good offense. Not saying it like directly like that,

but that's what he's telling you. And I think that with the run game and what this offense can become, like you've got to find out, can we do what Detroit did? It's not gonna look the exact same, but there's gonna be so many principles of that offense about getting guys out in space, about using your running backs interchangeably,

but also having pretty defined roles. I mean, even for, I mean, for Jameer Gibbs, he's like, you know, fourth or fifth in receiving on the team and he was still the lead, he was the team's leading rusher. You need a big heavy dose of run game action in order to make Caleb Williams a more effective quarterback. Ben Johnson knows that. So I think that that's going to be a big part of what they decide that they want

to do as far as their draft strategy, because I've already checked a lot of boxes with the offensive line. It can't look any worse than it did last year. So we'll see how much better than the run game becomes now that you have, you know, a competent group of blockers up front. Okay. So here's my question, though, because about Caleb Williams, I wasn't so much concerned

about any of his talent because he is stupidly talented. And to get drafted ahead of Jaden Daniels and Drake May really shows you how talented he was coming out. But the concern that I had was how he was going to handle the heat. And the answer last year was not so good. And the image that I can't get out of my head was him flopping around on the bench. All sad after Jahad Ward had wrecked him.

I mean, that that hit was vicious. Don't get me wrong. But like Caleb got flamed for how he handled that. And like the whole art, but make it sports Twitter account. Whoa. They roasted him with some of the images I guess that they were like superimposing next to him. My favorite though, which like how am I the only one who realized this because nobody else has said it. When he was laying on the ground like you know kind of like mummy style after

he got sacked, that's Charlie Brown after Lucy pulls the football away. How has there not been like the, like the side by side of those two things? Like to me, that's when I saw that I'm like, oh my God, that's where my brain went. You can't do that anymore. Like that's one thing, you cannot sell it like that anymore no matter how hurt you may feel after taking a big hit.

That also might be the Bears with their number one draft pick thinking they got a generational quarterback. Whoops. No, you didn't. I mean, the thing is with Caleb Williams, how many quarterbacks in history have gotten the coach fired in the first year and then turned out to be great? I mean, I look at like Trevor Lawrence where we did the same thing. Trevor Lawrence, we went to his urban Meyer. Come on. What was the guy supposed to do?

Or even with Sam Darnold with the New York Jets. Oh, well, it was Todd Bowles. He's a defensive coach. He doesn't know what he's doing. So it's not the quarterback's fault. But a lot of times the warts that are there in the first year are the warts that continue to carry over.

So my question with him is, how much of what was problematic for Caleb Williams can be fixed and how much can't be fixed. I don't think that he's ever going to be this elite's leader, this, you know, captain of the ship type of guy. He doesn't really have that as a personality. And then if he's as emotional as he is, then you're probably going to have a rollercoaster

with him to some extent. And I think that there's going to be super high moments where he blows your mind with performances, but a lot of other times where he gets down, the team gets in a rut and it's hard to get out of it. And I don't, I just don't know how much of that is. Well, if we give him a run game in the boots, he'll be fine. I think that those are some fundamental problematic things. And then after you watch Jayden Daniels and the playoffs, where to do

was just totally chill, like, Oh, Detroit, no big deal. Sam Darnold freaked out in that same environment. Jay nails. I was fine. I'll just go win this game. And even in Philly, it wasn't him who freaked out. It was their defense. So I, it was very different to see the way that those two handled pressure.

And I'm not sure that the Tiger changes his stripes there with Caleb Williams, even if he does get a lot better. If you play the retrospect game and think about how they handled all that they threw at him from like the onset last year, would you do it? Would you do it differently? Like Matt Eberfluss, a member was asked before his Caleb's first rookie camp practice on a Friday, like, you remember, was asked before his, Caleb's first rookie camp practice on a Friday. Like, you know, he's the guy, right?

He's like, yep, QB1, that's the guy. Like he was, he got the title before, it's A, before, obviously before he was ready, but there was really, you can kind of blame the Bears for that of like, all right, well, who else is it gonna be? Gonna make it Tyson Bajan? And I'm like, no, like you wouldn't, don't want to be disingenuous about it.

But I do think that there was a lot of growing for Caleb in what he had to do that would have been alleviated had there been more guardrails in place for him, at least in the offseason, to figure out how do I quarter back at the NFL level on the field off the field? Because the leadership element, too, like you can think about what the Bears did last year and see a lot of pitfalls. They had eight different captains and I know that like some teams like a lot of captains but like Caleb was one of them. Mercedes Lewis was one as well. So you had the 40 year old you had the 22 year old quarterback at the time. There's too much of a spectrum that had to be spanned. He had

a veteran receiver room where there was a lot of politicking going on, whether it was Keenan Allen, DJ Moore, guys who had been with young quarterbacks before, but they never been with the number one overall pick. I think that for Caleb, it was incredibly uncomfortable for him to figure out, how can I be a leader when these guys are expecting a certain, they're expecting me to play at a certain level

and it's not going well? Hell, we saw the wheel starting to come off week two when DJ Moore had to come out and apologize about, oh, I wish I wouldn't have shown off, you know, my body language like that. And he like said something to Tyson Bajent. We're all trying to be lip readers in Houston and it just looked really bad.

Caleb gets sacked, I think eight or nine times. You could have told me then how this thing was gonna play out and I'd be like, yeah I could see it. And I think so much of that had to go to Caleb has too much on his plate. He it's it's so hard for a rookie to be the captain of the team, to be the leader. Like he's probably shouldn't have been a captain but it's also like you're a quarterback. You know you want your quarterback. They tried to make him something he wasn't or something he wasn't ready for. And so now, you know, even week seven, week 18 this year after the green Bay game,

and he was taught, he was asked about like, what do you want to be different next year? What do you think will be like an easy year to sort of like, now I've got this under my belt, now I know what to do. And he was talking about the leadership aspect where before it was like, now I've got this under my belt, now I know what to do. And he was talking about the leadership aspect where before it was like, you know, am I comfortable doing this? Am I comfortable asserting my leadership this way? And he wasn't.

And I don't think that you can fault him for not having that because we did see glimpses of that at USC where it didn't feel, you know, Jayden Daniels made it seem so seamless. I think guys like that are just, you know, they're not, they're really hard to find. And he had success early on. Would Caleb's leadership have changed

if he like was on a winning team, a team that he felt supported by, a team where he didn't feel like, okay, this is a mishmash of different personalities, of guys, I'm not really sure how to like lead different, you know, a lot. Some coaches don't even know how to do that and they've been doing it for a long time where you have to like change your the way you talk to people based on how people receive information and perceive

what you're saying. That was too much to put on a 22 year old quarterback who was going to a place that had never drafted and developed a quarterback in the modern era of the NFL and be expected to be the savior year one, week one, day one? Too much, way too much. So like, I don't even know where you start with that in year two other than, all right, well maybe now since you've been through it, you know, it can't possibly be worse, right? Like probably not getting two coaches fired in year one, in your second year.

And you would like to believe that pairing him with Ben Johnson, you have a real quarterback voice in the room. Somebody who truly speaks the language of the QB. That's different than it was last year. So that should help. No, it definitely should. And putting a better run game around him, a better environment, a coach who understands how to work with quarterbacks, maybe a coach who understands how to put up the old T call a time out would help him to do it too.

Because you know, the thing that's like always forgotten about before you can't really see me. But like, you know, when he's clapping his arms, like trying to change the play after, you know, he got sacked and then like the time runs out because he thinks he has more time. Maddie, before he doesn't call time out on that drive thinks he has more time. Matt Eberfluss doesn't call a timeout. On that drive Caleb called a timeout when they were deep in Detroit territory and then when we asked him about it This was the Thanksgiving Day game that before Eberfluss got fired He's like well, you know I didn't really know if it was my place to do it in that moment like that's kind of pointing to for him saying

Without saying it it's on the coaches to do that. I'm a freaking rookie, but you did it earlier in that drive alone. And then of course the Seattle game, when it was six to three and they're trying to mount a comeback at the end, he didn't feel comfortable for whatever reason calling a timeout there.

I hope this, I hope Ben Johnson drills it into him. You are allowed to call a timeout under these circumstances. Make it as crystal clear as possible and for Ben Johnson to then be like everything else falls on me. I'm calling the timeouts. But like unless you see XYZ, if guys are, if more than one player has no clue what the, what the, what the play is, you have to change it and the kill play doesn't work, whatever, then call a timeout. Take take the ambiguity off of his plate because he's too young to still to know how to do that. You know what I mean?

Well, and Ben Johnson himself is going to have to learn how to do it. I think it took Kevin O'Connell a while to learn how to call plays. Sean McVeigh makes it look easy, but even McVeigh screws it up sometimes. And so does Kyle Shanahan, the guys who are trying to be the head coach and the play caller and the quarterback analyst and the everything at once.

It's not an easy job to do. I want to flip over to the Vikings here with you and just ask your perspective on the Aaron Rogers reporting. And I mean, for me, it was just strapping to the roller coaster and ride it along until it was done. And I think it's done. It seems like it. Some folks are still saying, well, it's not done. It's just sort of done for now. And it's like, okay, well, I don't know, whatever. But it was odd. The whole thing was odd. We had basically NFL insiders splitting into two camps of do the Vikings really want them or do the Vikings not really want them?

And we had the Vikings not doing a lot publicly during this time. Then they introduced some free agents right as this report comes out that they're not pursuing Aaron Rodgers. Oh, that's interesting timing. I just it's all been bizarre from over here. As this report comes out that they're not pursuing Aaron Rodgers, oh, that's an interesting timing. I just, it's all been bizarre from over here. I concur with that sentiment. It has felt bizarre because at the start of free agency, it looked pretty clear that Rodgers

was either going to the Pittsburgh Steelers or to the New York Giants. There were not going to be a lot of options for him. A lot of things were gonna be drying up before we even got officially to free agency where all these moves became final. Then all of a sudden, halfway through last week, Rodgers to the Vikings all of a sudden, like, huh, really? And I get it, they need a veteran quarterback

on the roster. Brett Rippon is the only quarterback they have outside of J.J. McCarthy. And I don't even think this is an indictment on J.J. McCarthy and the health and the second surgery. It was a clean up, like is his injury worse than we were led to initially believe. Everything they've been saying consistently

is that he's gonna be fine, injury-wise, health-wise. I just think that this is a team that realizes they won 14 games last year. In no way, shape, or form are they trying to rebuild or take a step back from that when they have a roster that they were very active in adding and spending in free agency, upgrading the defense, upgrading the offensive line in a big way that they don't want to have to go through as many growing pains that a rookie quarterback, excuse me, a second year quarterback, but basically this is his rookie season, they don't want to deal with that because they know that they still have a window to win

right now, especially given the state of the NFC North and how competitive it is. You don't want to lose your footing. So, but like why Aaron Rodgers? To me, I just feel like it complicates things. I brought this up, this was like one of my like pipe dream ideas about, let's say Rodgers doesn't find a spot, or like, you know, can't, nothing seems like it makes sense. Pittsburgh seems like it makes all the sense in the world, but for whatever reason that has not clicked,

something tells me, okay, they have either A, mishandled the quarterback situation in Pittsburgh so badly that they're not going to get any of the guys that they want and have to draft Jackson Dart or whatever, which would be bad, but that's hilarious if they've misplayed this. Or it tells me Rogers doesn't want to go there and is actually considering retiring.

Because this is weird. This is dragged on this long. And that the Vikings were in the mix, but it felt like they were the ones holding it up, trying to figure out, OK, are we basing this off what we think we need to see from J.J. McCarthy in OTAs, in mini camp before we make a signing, or is it that it's something else altogether where they're like, no, we actually would like Aaron Rodgers to come in here and start and give J.J. more time.

I don't think they misplayed this. I think that for now, because I still like I see the reporting where it's like, for now, he's not an option. I get that. Will this change after the first couple of OTAs and practices that they get to see JJ McCarthy in phase one, phase two of the offseason program?

Potentially. And I don't know if Aaron Rodgers is the right fit for that, but I damn sure know that they need a better and better veteran on the roster. If they don't think JJ is going to be able to like hit the ground running and win them games early on so they can try to be like on pace again for where they were at last year. Because they're telling you like they're in no way shape or form are we comfortable taking a significant step back. Right. And we know this, you know, this from covering the team, the Wilfs are never okay with that. They're never okay with the idea of, well, Hey, we might have to be patient. And that is reflective in their spending. They spent more money than anybody else in free agency.

They're trying to beef this thing up to take a shot again at the NFC North and try to be in that playoff race and everything else. So when you know that's your owner's standard and you're going to the unknown, then there is, I'm sure, a lot of nervousness within that building of what's he going to be even as good as he looked in the off season last year. And I also think that's why they did make a offer to Sam Darnold to stick around. Now, if you're Sam, he made the right move, go get your own team if you're not gonna be loved here. But I think you can sense that anxiety from them. And I also think too that if you're the Vikings

and Aaron Rodgers, which is so clear, has told them he wants to be a Viking. And if he hasn't told them directly, he's told them through several insiders that he knows that he wants to be a Viking. Okay, you gotta talk about it. You can't just with somebody who has that resume and that career and that history,

you can't just say, ah, you know, because you have to go through everything that he did last year. You have to look at it under a microscope. You have to think about all the things that would go along with it. To me, the circus plus the recent performance is not worth it.

If you were talking to me in 2022, plus the recent performance is not worth it. If you were talking to me in 2022, I might've been like, well, yeah, okay. I get it for one year to go for it and try to win. Right. Yeah, absolutely. But that was a long time ago now. Yeah. I just, they, they only bring Aaron Rogers in if they expect him to start because, and this is what I meant to like get back to earlier. I had this idea, like if Rogers couldn't find a spot would he be okay going somewhere to be a backup and to You know thinking about a place like Chicago Caleb never had an adult in the room last year He had young quarterbacks that were around him would Rogers potentially as a backup make sense there

I got a lot of heat from that be like why would you bring this circus to Chicago? You wouldn't but like is there another place? That would make sense for him to be a backup You would only be able to do that if you got the assurance from Aaron Rodgers that a I'm self-actualized enough to know where I'm At in my career a good quarterback at this point never gonna be MVP version of myself again Probably not winning a championship But can you win games with me as a backup? And can I help if you needed to play? Yes, you absolutely could.

Can I then help develop the next in line, the next Aaron Rodgers? Jerry would still be out to see if he would be willing to do that. I think he would probably sure as much retire before doing that. It's hard to gauge where he's at because of how quiet it's been and how much he's dragging this out.

Maybe it's just because he truly wants to move the needle. That's kind of a narcissistic way to think about it. Maybe it's because he really is mulling. Do any of these options intrigue me? Do any of these options make me excited? I probably have one or two more years of doing this at most. I don't know. With Minnesota, clearly it sounds like he wants to go there and it's the Vikings holding it up. I wonder how long they can continue to hold it up before he's like, Minnesota, you know, clearly it sounds like he wants to go there. And it's the Vikings holding it up.

I wonder how long they can continue to hold it up before he's like, no, forget it. I'm going to retire. Like I could see that as a realistic possibility. If like the timeline of this stuff is not happening as quickly as he wants it to happen. Right. Historically, there have been a lot of really good quarterbacks who have taken that kind of QB competition or backup type of role. I mean, even Joe Flacco is a Super Bowl champion, and he's just sort of bouncing

around from team to team, vibing, making some paychecks and then, oh, I got to go play because Anthony Richardson can't throw a ball or can't play an entire football game without getting winded. All right, that's fine. Randall Cunningham was like a Baltimore Raven, and we've seen it happen. But I think that there's probably a ilk of quarterback, an upper echelon that doesn't do that. And that would be like Brady Manning and Rogers is in that same category

as the all time greats. So if you bring him in, the whole franchise belongs to him. We saw it with the Jets. There isn't a way to just halfway. Oh, it's Andy Dalton and Bryce Young competing. It's not like that. It's his team, his franchise. And that's why I could never make any sense of it

because you want, even if there's bumps along the road, you want this to be JJ McCarthy's franchise by the end of the year where you walk off. Let's say even if you lose in the first round after a nine and eight season going, you know what? Next year, that's gonna grow. That's gonna gonna improve and a lot of the guys they signed they signed for multi-year contracts So this group is gonna be here around McCarthy It just makes so much sense to learn about him

But all the improvements that they made the Jonathan Allen the just found out today. It is pronounced J von Hargrave Did not know that. Not so much. She's not. Yeah. Yeah. I've been saying it just for the last couple of years then, as has everybody else. That's what I told him. I said never to Rod and Tyrod Taylor.

Like, yes. You've been in the league like eight years. Like now we're just finding out how to spell your pronounce your name. I know I said to him, well, Jayvon, great to meet you. I didn't know it was pronounced that way. So now we do know that Javon Hargrave, Jonathan Allen, Ryan Kelly, Will Fries, all the additions. Wait, wait, what is that?

I hear something. Hi, chart. Oh, what? Someone is calling for a pie chart. OK. Well, that's a great idea. Okay. That seems like a great idea. I don't know. I thought upstairs, maybe it was my wife. Someone wants a pie chart. Maybe it was God.

So I think that's necessary here. I want a pie chart from you. Vikings finishing first, second, third or fourth in the division. The perfect easy pie chart for you. One, two, three, four. Where do they finish in the division? 2025 with JJ freaking Karthi and not Aaron Rodgers.

Yeah. That at least simplifies it, which I think that is okay. Give me 30 seconds. I need some music. Okay. It's just a pie chart. It's usually a hundred percent, but sometimes you screw it up. Do do do do.

Okay, the music ran out. I asked for like 30 seconds and you gave me like five. You know that this is a difficult task for me. So I would really appreciate if you could continue on. Just give me 10 seconds. OK, there was something else I was going to say about Rogers. And just like the place. OK, all right.

All I was going to say about Rogers is that I think he should retire. Like the places that he could go. I don't know that Pittsburgh really wants to play with him. Yeah, if I'm him, I'm like, do I really want to go to the Jets? Excuse me, from like the Jets, the Giants. That feels like such a this is your last stop. That's how you want to like end your career.

And I know he probably doesn't want to end his career on what just happened with the Jets over the last two seasons. One season doesn't play another season where they fall way short of expectation. This whole thing feels like it blew up in their face. He wants one more chance to get right, but getting right with these teams, the Steelers are your best option because they feel like a legit option.

The Vikings don't feel like a legit option. And the Giants are, like, it's not like, you know, the Cleveland like Browns have even sniffed the idea of bringing him in. They brought in Russell Wilson on a visit that makes a little bit more sense. Their team that can maybe go from three wins to like eight wins with Russ. Not a good team. But like Aaron Rogers looks at me like, why would I go there and like finish my career in a team that's not going anywhere fast?

Right. Oh, now I remember what the other thing about Rogers was why they can't tell people it's a hundred percent. He's off the table. There's no way we're doing this because they don't want to. They don't want to like close the door on that because there's a chance you don't want to be going into August with just Brett Griffin as your quarterback. I actually had this conversation with him this morning. I'm like, what's Ryan Tannehill doing right now?

Yeah. Yeah. Is that somebody that you'd want? Because, you know, this could not this could look ugly with J.J. McCarthy. It could. But the but like the way that the Vikings have handled this is clearly they felt they did not feel the need to, they wanted to use the money they could have spent on the Sam Darnold franchise tag, a significant portion of that, on upgrading other parts of the offense and then spending big in free agency.

I think they made the right move. Obviously, you don't want to let a player walk for nothing, but knowing that everybody would be calling their bluff if they tried to do a tag and trade makes sense. I'm good with that. Right. But I'm not good with, if I'm a Minnesota Vikings fan, I'm not going to Brett Rippen being the only backup quarterback. JJ might have a Caleb Williams style, you know,

rookie season for all intents and purposes where he's not ready and he needs somebody to show him the way, show him the way on the field, show him the way with leadership that he's just not ready to, um, you know, to, to do that. You need like a proven veteran, not just like a backup who has been in the league for a couple of years. And that's why tanning home, like, you know, he, I know he was hurt final season in Tennessee. He hasn't played football in a year.

Like is that a better option than Aaron Rogers? It's currently out there. I don't know. Oh yeah. Like probably like, yeah, like't know. Oh, yeah. Like, probably. Yeah. Like, you know, performance perspective. Yeah. From a leadership, you don't deal with the circus. I'd be good with that. But this is I mean, they're in a precarious spot rolling the dice saying,

Hey, JJ is our guy, because that's what they're telling you. But let's see if he's actually the guy, if he can be the guy. Well, I was even thinking this is the franchise that had Teddy Bridgewater show up to work one day and his knee explodes at practice. And if that were to happen, it's sort of like they can't tell everyone. No, no, no way. Because if he goes to the first OTA practice and tears his ACL, then they're calling Aaron Rodgers and this is happening.

Like, I think they need to make sure they don't say like, hey, disrespect or something to Rogers, not that he would ever be disrespected by stuff. So what's this pie chart say? Vikings finishing first, second, third or fourth after the first wave of NFL free agency. Okay. I also just came up with an idea. What if, you know, Teddy Bridgewater, I read the article from Dan Pompei at the Athletics.

He's still considering wanting to play. And he came out of retirement to go, you know, be in Detroit for a couple games. Who's to say they don't want to like bring it? Teddy would be perfect for this role. Yeah. Like, yeah, I don't agree. Unless they truly think like JJ is not physically ready to play. Can Teddy be your guy? Well, like, you know, for a couple games, maybe, maybe not.

From a leadership perspective, though, I think you're in a good spot with him. So when the last time he started, he went, oh, yeah, sorry, I am. But Teddy was seven and seven the last time he started, which is what you look for in a backup quarterback. OK, go ahead. Go ahead. Pie chart. OK, pie chart.

So you gave me the options first, second, third or fourth in the NFC North. Let me pull this up. So I went 30% chance they win the NFC North. I think they are obviously they've retooled the defense. They kept their coaches this off season. Other teams in the NFC North did not, Detroit specifically. But I think a 30% chance to go win the division, to go do what Detroit did this past year,

is a fair summation of a team that feels it has its guy. That's what they've told us by not signing Aaron Rodgers in JJ McCarthy. Maybe JJ is great. Maybe it's the ground running. Maybe the year off that he had to learn and be in that room and have an opportunity to be with Kevin O'Connell Like look at what Kevin O'Connell did with from Kirk to Sam Darnold now

Like I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt here But I'm also still looking at this saying Detroit still a really damn good football team like first know why they'll be okay We'll see how the coaches you know fair after losing both your coordinators You're obviously gonna have to go through a period of adjustment, but you kept your head coach. You kept the majority of that roster. I think that Detroit based on this of the, of the Vikings winning at 30% in my pie chart, that would still have, you know, giving Detroit a big portion of, um, I guess the pie in that part to like win the division.

So then that deserves, yep. Absolutely. Deserved. I think, I think I would go similar. I would go similar. I like this number.. So then that deserves. Yep. Absolutely. I think I would go similar. I would go similar. I like this number. I go then 40. So that's 70%.

I have to do the math along the way. 40% for them to finish second in the NFC North. Just like last year, like the spot that they're in, they're a 14 win football team. It might take 14 wins, 15 wins, whatever Detroit did to go win the division. I think the Vikings could be with J.J. McCarthy in year two. That's why I put that at the

largest percentage. Second in the division. Still a playoff team, wild card round, very solid season. To finish third in the division, I put that at 20%. And that's really, it's a low percentage because I don't think that Green Bay, like I think Green Bay has in real time taken a step back. We saw the losses that they had to end the year. You didn't have a lot of confidence within them going into the playoff game that they had against the Philadelphia Eagles. Didn't have a lot of confidence in Jordan Love and what we saw at the end of the season from him. So I still think that it's, you know, realistically like Detroit, Minnesota, Green Bay, like just

right now looking at that order. But I don't think that the Vikings would finish, like I don't give them a high enough percent chance to win to finish third in the division based on how I feel about the other teams probably being in that spot. And then to round it out, finishing fourth, 10% chance. The math adds up there. I did 100%. Thank you very much. Well done. Well done. Congratulations. But like for them to finish fourth in the division means that JJ McCarthy was a huge

bust, his rookie, true rookie season, like everything fell off. They completely mishandled how they would handle the quarterback situation. It means that everything fell flat for the Vikings this year, and I just don't see that happening. I think they did a really good job in free agency. I think they've got the best coach in the division, especially when it comes to working with quarterbacks. I just think it's a kind of far-off shot to think that they go from where they were last

year, a 14-win team, to finishing fourth, which means that the Bears would have, you know, really, I mean, they could finish third and that'd be, you know, a huge success for them this past season considering where they've been the last three years. Yeah, I think with the coaching standpoint, we saw it last year in the playoffs where you went through the coaches that were in the playoffs and you went, oh yeah, it's the same coaches that are always in the playoffs. It's Andy Reed, it's Mike Tomlin and Sean Payton. It's both hard balls.

It's like, okay, if you reach a certain level of coaching, even Dan Quinn, a guy who had a lot of success in his career, you're probably going to be in the discussion every year, unless of course your quarterback pops and Achilles or something like that. Um, but other than that, if your quarterback is healthy, you're at least gonna be in the race. That I agree with you that putting them first is still a little aggressive

because Detroit has their roster, because they get Aiden Hutchinson back, but it's also not impossible. It just depends on what's there for JJ McCarthy. We've seen this go a lot of different ways. We've seen a second year quarterback without a lot of experience be really good. We've also seen quarterbacks without a lot of different ways. We've seen a second year quarterback without a lot of experience be really good. We've also seen quarterbacks without a lot of experience that have been in a building needs some more time to progress

throughout a season. But as far as pure roster goes, I think their roster moved ahead of Green Bay. It's closer to even with Detroit than it's been in a while. And I think it's still significantly better overall than the Chicago Bears. I think that is a really well done, nicely crafted pie chart. Great job. I you know, I knew that you were going to ask. I didn't know what it was going to be about. I knew you were going to ask me about it. I figured it was something Rogers related.

So thank you for not making me go down that rabbit hole. Because then I'd have to use like, you know, increments of five, maybe even give you some odd numbers in there. And then of course, it would have just been like really tricky to get that thing right. But I'm proud of myself. This is what I'm using the offseason for. Like I'm using it to get better. One more question for you.

Who do you think has made themselves better the most in the NFL this off season? And I mean, you could argue the Vikings, but let's take the Vikings off the table. Any other team who has done the most to improve themselves? Dude, look at what Washington's done. Like, especially on offense, like I did Danielss is gonna be in a great situation again. And I think it, you know, it's not a free agency move with the Debo trade, but like that kickstarted everything.

I think that Washington, after making the NFC championship game, maybe a year ahead of schedule from four and 13 to the final game before the Super Bowl. And then the additions that they've made on the offensive side of the ball alone, layer me tonsil. Like I, I know we had a lot of penalties,

but whatever, like you just upgraded the offensive line. You got a great left tackle in there. You got a great receiver. You re-signed Zacherts. And I know he's 34 years old, but like you still have like your second leading receiver in terms of production. Now I'm gonna be probably your third.

I really like what they did in Washington. I'm very bullish again. Like, you know, I'm an error, whatever the word is, like, you know, I'm in a good spot on Washington to like buy high on that because I think there's just that good. I think that is the correct animal. Yeah. I think bearish is less. I never know.

Like, which is the right one. Yeah, I'm in on well, that's all I got to say. Enjoy covering some women's tournaments. Sloan and I was going to ask you Notre Dame. So like in South Bend, the first and second round is a close drive. Have a chance to see Hannah Hill, Dalgo, obviously Olivia Miles, Olivia Miles

would love to see what the player of the year race would be like if Juju wasn't just going to run away with this thing. I think Notre Dame's a team that, yeah, they lost a couple games at the end of the year, but Sophia Citrone put her in there too. They're a really good team. They're an intriguing team. I'm excited to see as a three seed, can they can this thing not go chalk and can they come out of, you know, come out of that region that they're in?

It is going to be a really interesting tournament. Also, my eyes are all on Page Becker's Minnesota native and her last chance before she's drafted number one in the WNBA. Actually, my wife will be calling softball in Oklahoma while the tournament's going on. She calls all the Big Ten tournament stuff, but then it all goes over to ESPN. She's with Big Ten Network, goes over to ESPN for the tournament, which will be really exciting.

So thanks so much for making a little time here while you're on the road. Talk a little ball and we will definitely do it again soon. Sounds good. Thanks for having me. You want to say football? Football. Okay. Football. Football.