Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - ESPN's Courtney Cronin dives into Kevin O'Connell's first comments

Episode Date: February 19, 2022

Matthew Coller and ESPN's Courtney Cronin talk about how much of new Minnesota Vikings coach Kevin O'Connell's comments about players like Kirk Cousins, Anthony Barr and Harrison Smith are to be looked into deeply. Plus, spinning the wheel of possible quarterback options to talk about Kenny Pickett and Sam Darnold. And if the Vikings are doing the opposite of everything Zimmer and Spielman did...what will that mean for the coming weeks? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Folks, before we get into the show, I wanted to tell you that you can save 15% at SodaStick.com by using the promo code PURPLEINSIDER at checkout. That's S-O-T-A-S-T-I-C-K.com for your Minnesota sports-inspired hats, hoodies, shirts. Use the promo code PURPLEINSIDER at SodaStick.com. Welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here along with ESPN's Courtney Cronin. Courtney, I'm on jury duty day five and here's the latest development uh first the days are long the trial is real I have to like be a grown-up and um like do what they tell me to do which is hard uh and not make like pithy comments in the back which I would know god I know that's hard for you I would do to you at press conferences and things like that.

Like I have to actually be very professional about this. But during a break, a fellow juror said to me, so you cover the Vikings or whatever, right? I'm like, yeah. And he said, you know, I'm from DC and I lived there a couple of years ago when Kirk was the quarterback of Washington. And he said pretty

much the same huh I was like yeah pretty much the same and he's like I think they should get rid of him I was like I don't think you're alone and so that is uh that is all I can really tell you legally about what happened to me on jury duty day five but uh it's going it's going it's going fine can you imagine if you and I were on jury duty together though? Like what honestly would actually be great because we'd probably both get kicked out. Yes. So it's honestly your fault that I didn't get summoned at the same time. And you could have been at Kevin O'Connell's press conference. I'm just trying not to be in contempt of court. Like basically I'm like trying to pay attention, take my notes, take it seriously. Of course. I mean, somebody's fate is, you know, I'm drawing little pie charts in my

notes, like 45% guilty, 55%. No, I'm not, I'm not doing anything like the things that you would think I would totally do in their imaginary world. That would be funny. I'm really can't, I've thought of a lot of things but i really can't i mean you're not even on your phone like usually like i get like at least like 10 midday texts from you just on like random nonsense like the fact that like i hear from you like once a day now is to show and like you are taking this very seriously you are a true representative of your civil duty to this country and we thank you you know what the hardest thing is is when someone can't remember something,

you naturally want to tell them what it was. When like the person who's testifying is like, yeah, what was that question? You want to be like, oh, they asked about this. And they're like, oh, wait, no, I'm not supposed to speak at all. You know, just naturally, right? If someone says, what's today? You'd be like, Friday. Anyway, so it's quite an experience. I mean, I'm learning a lot about what it's like. And that is very interesting. Should be done by next week. Should be fine for the NFL Combine.

So we're good to go there. And I will continue to do my job and bring you all this show still. So I appreciate you, Courtney, working your schedule around my jury duty to do it. And I want to just start out by getting your reaction to Kevin O'Connell's press conference. He won it. I'll give him that. I think that he and Kwesi Adolfo-Mensa, they were both up there together. It was about 35, 40 minutes. I thought they, you know, there were a few questions for Kwesi, not many, you know, the only ones that really centered on the roster are the ones that he would like speak to when asked about Kirk Cousins. Is he definitely your quarterback?

That's the way it was phrased at them on Thursday. And I think that Kevin O'Connell, in speaking about Kirk Cousins, you know, shed some interesting perspective just on some of the things he said about like what it how he views his duty of getting the most out of Kirk Cousins which we have heard how many times now since 2018 every coordinator or and every play caller which you know has been on the offense has always been the offensive coordinator because Kirk had a defensive head coach for a very long time um but every single one of them has asked that same questions about getting the most out of Kirk cousins, helping him thrive. And I think that just some of the basic things that Kevin O'Connell said were

a little eyeopening, maybe. I mean, first off, the fact that he said, you know, well, I know he's already under contract and I'm excited to coach him. Not like, hell yeah, I came here for Kirk cousins, like load up the converter van or whatever your conversion van, whatever you call it. Like that he used to drive in Washington. No, like I thought that was a calculated answer and that he was smart with saying, I'm anticipating Kirk being part of what we do, but even some of the smaller things that just shows you Kevin O'Connell knows what he's dealing with here. Like here, I'm reading you a quote said, you know, about building the offensive system,

make sure we really focus on the things that Kirk does well. Yeah, where have I heard that quote? Which I do think are a lot of the aspects of playing the position and help him on a daily basis connect with the team, lead us, be a completely quiet-mind quarterback that can go play because he's talented enough to go do that, putting him in the best possible situations to have success, end quote. This is a coach coming in knowing, yo, I know the narrative about Kirk,

that he's got to have everything status quo around him. He's got to have pieces in place, that he is a little bit quirky, that he doesn't connect with the locker room the way that maybe a Matthew Stafford does the quarterback that he just worked with he knows what he's in for if indeed Kirk Cousins is his quarterback like the overall discourse and you know Kevin O'Connell talked about his path in coaching and how he got you know through the Super Bowl week putting the staff together at the same time. All that stuff is great, but the Cousins stuff is at the top of mind for everyone. So all of those answers are what I paid attention to probably the most closely, and it's very eye-opening the way that he views Kirk Cousins

and the way that he and Kweisi Adofo meant to the body language when they were asked these questions versus kind of what ownership was saying in our little side session that we had with them, where I asked Mark Wolf, okay, like you you're doubling down on you going to be competitive. Like, does that make you lean towards wanting to keep Kirk cousins? And of course he wouldn't get into the contract stuff, but he said, he said it again, like he said, quote, we're going to be super competitive in 2022. Yeah. So super competitive.

That's a kiss of death in my opinion, when it looks like your head coach and your general manager are trying to be very calculated in their response on Kirk Cousins. And then the ownership is like, no, no, no, we're going to be super competitive. And yeah, we're going forward with Kirk, whatever. Like, what are you guys thinking? I'm like, no, you can't say super competitive and then expect not to have Kirk Cousins as your quarterback

and not saying that he would keep them super competitive. But are you guys really expecting to pull off a trade to get Deshaun Watson in here? Are you thinking that you're going to get another quarterback that's going to force his way out of whatever spot he's in? That doesn't make a whole ton of sense to me just looking at it on paper. So I thought that, you know, Kevin O'Connell probably left the press conference thinking, okay, like they're, they're trying to cement this guy to me. Uh, I'll do what I have to do for a year, but, oh man. I mean, doesn't, I'm sorry. Doesn't super competitive sound like the more things that you add in front of competitive, the less I believe you. Oh my gosh. Like, I just feel like they keep doubling down and shooting themselves in the foot. Give yourself some grace.

Don't say those things. I just feel like it's the wrong way to approach it because you're putting cart before the horse. Well, we really don't know if Kirk Cousins is going to be the quarterback. We really don't. Right, and I thought that everything about the press conference indicated Kevin O'Connell is not sure either, but also needs to make it clear that he's not going

to like quit if Kirk is still the quarterback. But I want you to, I'm going to pretend that I just got hired as the head coach of the Los Angeles chargers and I'm taking over Justin Herbert. And I want you to ask me how I feel about that. Just go ahead. How do you feel about that? I feel like we have one of the best quarterbacks in the league that Justin Herbert is young and as a monster arm and his ceiling, there basically isn't one because he has so much talent and he has become the face of our franchise. And I wanted this job because of Justin Herbert. That's how you not sound like, uh, that's how you answer when you have a franchise quarterback, I'll do this for anybody. Um, you

know, ask me about my homes, ask me about Alan, any of those, uh, how am I talking about it versus, um, at, you know, ask me about Derek Carr. Well, you know, look at Derek Carr's done some good things. I mean, so I got that vibe from Kevin O'Connell myself, but here's what I also thought about Kevin O'Connell is everything now is the opposite of what it was before as we expected. And I, and I want you to tell me what else you think is going to be opposite. So Kevin O'Connell is the complete opposite of Mike Zimmer. He's a former player. He's young. He really has a good command of his words. He is modern. He understands how to apply analytics

and he wants to collaborate and work closely with the analytics people and the general manager. And he seemed to be very much on the same page. He understands, I think better, uh, when to run the football, how to run the football, what its role is in creating the past game. I mean, all these things are just the opposite of Mike Zimmer. That's not to say Zimmer was a terrible coach. It's just, these things are very opposite. So what else do you think will be opposite as we go forward outside of the head coach is now younger, wants to pass the ball, understands the numbers that we got the wall street GM, as opposed to the old school scout GM, like what else is going to be different? I mean, everything is a complete departure, right? From where they

were before. And I remember going into the process of covering this head coach and GM search thinking well you know maybe it won't be all that different and I honestly think if you end up with a deep like if you ended up with Dan Quinn and let's say it was Ryan Poles that's probably closer to what you had before with Mike Zimmer and Rick Spielman than what you have now with Kevin O'Connell and Kweisi Adolfo-Menson for obvious reasons, like the background that you mentioned with both of them. But I tend to think that like, you know, some of the stuff that O'Connell was talking about yesterday, because remember, culture is still a buzzword. Collaboration is still a buzzword. Those are things that like your first 100 days on the job you can get by with just talking about without actually showing proof of it yet. So we shall see. I mean, all of those

things that Kwesi had mentioned during his press conference were reiterated in some form or fashion yesterday when Kevin O'Connell is talking about like the draft and free agency and Adolfo Mensah jumps in and says, you know, like, we're going to do it side by side. Like those two looked like they were thick as thieves, which is a good sign, I think, from like the very jump, but we'll see how long that lasts. Obviously this is a working situation. This is a business you have to win in order to be successful. And both of them are going to be navigating this for the first time in their respective spots. But, you know, I definitely noticed like the, it's the, it's the, the players coach type thing.

Does it not kind of feel like it's headed that way, which is, I believe, well, what kind of like what Mike Tice was here. And then he went to Brad Childress, which was a complete departure from that. And then Leslie Frazier more towards that, just like geared towards like being like a generally departure from that and then leslie frazier more towards that just like geared towards like being like a generally wonderful human being and like nice guy and then like mike zimmer hard ass but like not not necessarily a play not at all players coach but um now we're back to like the other thing like i think the thing he said that kind of made me raise an

eyebrow or two it's just about how like we want our players to want to be in the building like it's a good sign when your players are actually here and like wanting to be around and i just i feel like he knows obviously what he's walking into a situation where he's got to change things and just change like the modus operandi for this team where it's not the coaches are always right it's some somewhat player empowerment which of course plays into the contract situation with kirk cousins and if him if you know everything kind of points towards if he's not going to take a discount what do you do there but also you know beyond that helping you

know i think that like there's there's the argument you've got to make about okay what does kevin o'connell do for this offense it's not like let's take kirk out of the equation because i don't think regardless of whether he's here next year i don't think he's here much longer beyond that it's justin jefferson it's adam phelan it's dalvin cook it's all of those pieces that i think that they'll start to build this team maybe change their mind about the way that it used to be in, in terms of like, how do you form a team and actually do things the way that like the Rams that I feel like Casey and O'Connell,

just the way that they spoke about roster building and the way that they spoke about like what the roster already is. And some players that might be here, some players that might not. I think they're going to take a completely different approach to it. And I think that that means if you can be way more active in free agency, don't be allergic to going after free agents the way that the Rams did. I also think that when it comes to Kevin O'Connell and being opposite, like don't throw the boots out with the bathwater. Like there's a lot of things that the offensive coordinators here did before

that actually worked really well. And 2019 is maybe the best example of kevin stefanski with kirk cousins and you look at kirk cousins play action rate how they effectively ran the football not just kept running it no matter what but were effective uh particularly the screen game was the best that cousins had ever had it now these are all things that other quarterbacks can do. Other quarterbacks can throw to open receivers on play actions. Other quarterbacks can hand off and have Delvin Cook do the job or run screen passes and have success with that. So you're looking to set a baseline of helping your quarterback, no matter who it is, to

be able to do those things in the same way that Kevin Stefanski did. And then the rest has to be on the talent of the quarterback, whether it's cousins stepping up his game somehow, uh, or if it's getting somebody more talented. So there's a little bit of, yes, you want the opposite of some of the things they did, but on the offensive side, you can't go totally different. I mean, unless you're literally tearing the roster down to the studs and ownership has indicated that is absolutely not happening. Right. And there wouldn't be a good reason to tear the offensive parts of it away because you're Irv Smith is coming back and Jefferson Irv Smith, the two tackles, like that's a great place to begin.

There are other pieces that if they go and change, if it's not feeling anymore, if it's not Delvin cook, I think you're fine. Mostly in that case, if you're replacing them with other good players that are playmakers. But the key pieces of this team going forward, Justin Jefferson, the two offensive tackles, and Irv Smith Jr., there's a lot there to start with. Of course. And I think that all the know, all the stuff that he said yesterday about how, what you saw in LA, those concepts, a lot of them are going to show up in Minnesota. Like it makes sense. Go ahead and look at the blueprint for what made the Rams so successful starting, you know, 2018 when the first year they made the super bowl with Sean McVay as their head

coach, tons of 11 personnel. And they're not just like throwing out of 11 personnel. They run out of that, too. And like, that's the thing. It can be, you know, the whole illusion of complexity. That term was thrown around yesterday. We've heard it, you know, multiple times before with the Rams talking about it. All that is, is making, you know, like having your personnel groupings look the same and then like

all of a sudden they're not so you're like looking at something and expecting a pass and it's a run and you know vice versa like I think that they can do so many of these other things where it's it's motion it's it's it's all the stuff that you're doing pre-snap to like throw off a defense and honestly modernizing the offense like this is what we were talking about with Clint Kubiak last year. Like, is he actually going to do it? Is he capable of doing it? You have the personnel to do it. Why not try it? Like, and it just never came to fruition, obviously because of who was really holding the reins of the whole thing.

Now we get to see that, like, this is, this is when you take the governor off of the offense. Like, because you have somebody who is rooted on that side of the ball who's willing to push the envelope in ways that you just did not see happen under Mike Zimmer because he didn't want it to happen. Let's be frank. Like, that's like, I think when he was asked, Kevin O'Connell, that is, asked about the aspects of the running game and, like,

how do you impose your will on a defense. And it's not just running to run. It's running because you want to marry that with the passing game. And I know a lot of that sounds like coach speak, but I do honestly believe it because look at how successful the Rams were with it. Even when it didn't work in certain games, go back to the Vikings game when they played them on December 26. Sony Michel had a great game.

None of their other running backs did. But they, like, find ways to make that stuff work. Like, you were mentioning with the screen game. Where did that go? Like, in Minnesota. That comes back. Wide receiver screens become a thing, too. Like, you know, there's just so much there that I think the creativity of it

is going to be so vast that it's almost going to be like drinking from a fire hose, I think, for a lot of these players because they're just not used to that. And when we talk about like how things are done opposite of what was done in the Zimmer era, two things come to mind for me. Number one is part of the screen game not working was probably the offensive line sure like when you have ole udo trying to transition from tackle to guard and then you know you're asking him to run screens and not get downfield too fast and all the all those things like these detailed things that are difficult for somebody who was a tackle and you don't run screens as much with tackles getting out like you do guards very difficult to do uh the offensive line of the los angeles rams was absolutely fantastic i mean one of the best in the league uh quasi comes from san francisco where they built good offensive lines

and he comes from cleveland where they built a good offensive line and the investment there i would expect is going to be vastly different. And when you're talking about, like, no matter who the quarterback is, what's the goal here, it's always to set up the quarterback in the absolute best way that you can. And the previous regime was just flat out negligent about one of the key things. And no surprise, like when you look at the numbers of Matt Stafford, sacks were always an issue for him. And then suddenly they weren't not just because of the system, but their offensive line was a big deal here. And, you know, I don't want to be the person that says Kirk hasn't succeeded because of

his right guard, because that sounds ridiculous. But if you can create an entire unit, they're running passing. I mean, it's all going to improve. Uh, if you have a better offensive line, it's just like common sense. I think that that will be a big focus for them. The other thing is too, that one of the, one of the problems Mike Zimmer and all defensive coaches face is that their side of the ball is just not as important that the Vikings could have made the playoffs last year with the eighth best offense instead of the 14th, they would have been in the playoffs. They didn't have a good enough defense to win the super bowl but even the rams their defense i think was 16th it does not have to be a legendary defense it just has to be good in the playoffs and you know i think when mike zimmer does not have control over the most important thing there's he wanted to have control over that because it's

frustrating to not have your side of the ball be the one that ultimately determines what happens with this football team so now with kevin o'connell that is the case and what he can do is actually take his hands and remove them from the defense and he can never touch what Ed Donatello is doing. And Mike Pettin, who's going to be an assistant coach as well. Like those guys have the defense, you run the offense and you can really do that. It's very much in the same vein as Sean McVay and Wade Phillips when they first started out there or Sean McVay and Raheem Morris of what was going on or Brandon Staley. You run the offense.

Yes, you're going to be the head coach and manage the players and the team and everything else. But the defense belongs to that guy. And I just think that trusting your coach that you hired to do this was something Mike Zimmer never did. And it hurt them over the years. And that's one thing I wanted to ask Kevin O'Connell about yesterday, but we were pressed for time. How do you manage it? Because it is very, very clear here in talking with people on the staff over the last five years that I've covered this team, it's offense versus defense, or it was offense versus defense in Minnesota. Not saying that like coaches are like, you know, pitted against each other,

but like as a whole, it's the offense lost this game. The defense did its job. I wonder how that staff is going to look like when staffs actually respect each other in the sense that, you know, and I'm not saying it's perfect. Obviously I don't know what, what went on inside of the Rams locker room or coaching meetings or anything like that. But let me tell you, get into a Superbowl and winning a Superbowl means that you have 53 players, an entire coaching staff, an entire scouting staff, an entire front office. Everyone's moving in the same direction. Everyone has the same goal when it did. The goals weren't the same here in Minnesota over the last couple of years,

which is why I think that, you know, it didn't just fracture within the locker room. It fractured within the coaching staff. So I'm very curious to see how, you know, it didn't just fracture within the locker room. It fractured within the coaching staff. So I'm very curious to see how, you know, when he's talking yesterday about how Ed Donatel, we're definitely going to be seeing a 3-4 defense. There's no doubt in my mind. I mean, he came from, funny thing is though,

like during those years that he was with Green Bay and they were like really good in like the early 2000s, like they were running a 4-3, but Ed Donatllo's very versatile. He was in Denver, and yeah, he wasn't calling plays under Vic Fangio, but he's running that scheme. That's a 3-4 scheme that's predicated off stopping the pass and then making offensive coordinators so frustrated that they just run the ball and end up running themselves into the ground.

Not a bad way to do it. I just thought it was very interesting, some of the things that he said about the players that, especially the players he mentioned that he anticipates like being a part of this, the guys that he likes, I mean, Harrison Smith being the first name that comes to mind. And I'm like, Oh goodness. If you really wanted to like restructure him, you kind of didn't really give yourself, do yourself any favors there by just like lauding this guy of how wonderful he is and like he's the perfect structure of a player or whatever

to fit in your defense like oh gosh financially you probably shot yourself in the foot there because this guy's gonna be like i'm not taking a pay cut anyways um it does open the question though of like what does anthony barr become because he is a pending free agent yes kevin o'connell mentioned him in this defense and how really how he likes him, but I can't picture them realistically right now. I cannot picture them having a 3-4 without an Anthony Barr type. Maybe it's not him, but you have to have that type of linebacker in order to succeed in this role. Hey everybody, I've been making my meals from HelloFresh and I have to tell you i cannot make enough of these things and if i can make them literally anyone can with hello fresh you get farm fresh

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quality, and you can save on average over $65 per month when you order HelloFresh instead of grocery shopping. That's more money to put toward your NFL draft guides. How about that? We've been cooking HelloFresh meals here in the house for the last couple of weeks. Just made the Parmesan chicken the other night and it's a game changer, guys. So go to HelloFresh.com. That's HelloFresh.com slash Insider16. HelloFresh.com slash Insider16. Use the code Insider16 for up to 16 meals for free and three free gifts. HelloFresh, America's number one meal kit. So Sam and I disagreed on the stock to put in the defensive quotes. I don't put a lot of stock in them at all. I mean, not mentioning Daniil Hunter.

I don't know. I mean, you're doing- I think Daniil needs a change of scenery, but that's just me. I mean, I still lean that way myself, but I don't think that more or less because of Kevin O' that's just me. I mean, I still lean that way myself, but I don't think that more or less because of Kevin O'Connell not mentioning him. And the same thing goes for Anthony Barr. What Kevin O'Connell knows is, and actually Anthony Barr played well last year. Yeah. Especially against the Rams. Definitely against the Rams. When his team was preparing

for the Minnesota Vikings, they looked at the linebackers and said, that's the strength of their defense. Those guys are really good. And that's who we're going to have to deal with. And how would that not be true? Like, of course it was true. The rest of the defense was terrible when the Rams got here. So, yes, the strength was the two good players who make Pro Bowls and stuff. So I don't look into that and say, oh, well, that must mean that they want to sign Anthony Barr to an extension.

I also think that the Donatello, like if he follows along with what a lot of these defenses that are, you know, finger quote three, four have done, what they end up being a lot of times is five, one, like five defensive linemen and one linebacker. I mean, you could call them all in your nickel anyways, then the rest is the secondary. So like there's, yeah. I mean, I don't know how much use there is to paying another linebacker.

That was always a critique that we had before. Yeah, no, I don't, I don't disagree. I think that you can get that type of player, but you need, I mean, I do think that Kendrick's and bar, you need like a compliment there, whether it's Nick vigil or whether it's someone else, I believe vigil is also free agent after this year is kind of moot, but I just thought it was interesting.

The praise heaped onto Anthony bar. And like, then like my mind's like, okay, I could actually see it. I mean, the guy played in a three, four and was a first round pick because of it he's been in a 4-3 his entire career in the NFL until the time that he went to the Jets for not even officially becoming a member of the Jets he was going to be in that he finally was going to get to rush the passer like right that was all that we ever talked about with Anthony Barr and then he comes back I would like to see even though I know it could be expensive and like granted this is just like more of a pipe dream of wanting to see what that would actually look like versus knowing where he's

at health-wise with the knee and clearly that's like an issue that's not going to go away and you know Barr sounded pretty pretty certain he was gone at the end of that Bears game press conference in this in in January. But I am curious to see what it looks like. I mean, your fronts are going to be multiple anyways. That's the thing. Just because you're in a 3-4 doesn't mean that you're not going to be changing up your fronts and rushing four occasionally.

I mean, hell, this team rushed three during a pretty important play in Detroit and ended up losing the game because of it. So, um, yeah. Still, still shocking that Cameron Dantzler would not understand how an end zone works. 10 yards. That guy can't get in front of you and catch the ball within that 10 yards. Like that's how that works. Um, but yeah, I mean, I, I think think with Barr, there's just too many red flags there. The injury to his knee was a big problem last year.

And of course, he's going to tell everybody, oh, no, no, no, it's fine. And I can keep playing. But I mean, that thing, it kept him out of the entire training camp. It kept him out of the first couple of weeks. We didn't know from week to week whether Anthony Barr was going to play, which I think says something about him that he was effective this year overall, but even then effective and look at what the whole defense was able to do. Like one player like that at his age on a team like this is just not worth it. So I think it was more of just a name drop of, yeah, when we were

studying their defense, that's kind of who we looked at i get it i get it i still i still i don't know i think there's reason to think that some of it i mean you you know that you're prepared for this moment you know you're going to get those questions everything from the question about kirk to the questions about the defense and i'm not saying you have to be perfect and i'm not saying everything is calculated but it was interesting okay so you're putting you're putting i'm kind of more i'm kind of i'm more on sam's side about this well typical typical uh side against me um so uh you rule against me some might say who are doing jury duty is that i mean is that how it works you're

submitting it for evidence and um it's not being objected by the judge. I don't know. Yeah, that is kind of how it works. So Sam and I, by the way, speaking of him, we've been doing this wheel of quarterbacks. So I have 21 quarterback names and I spin the wheel and then it lands on a quarterback name. Are you interested? Yeah, sure. Okay, I'm going to do it.

I'm going to dial it up. Some music, please. Do, do, do, do, do, do, Yeah, sure. Okay. I'm going to, I'm going to do it. I'm going to dial it up. Some music, please. Where will the wheel stop? Let's find out. See, my, my songs are so much better than yours. Like, you know what I do? I, it's like what Kevin O'Connell is going to do for Kirk. Like I am amplifying you.

Like you created the song, which was the, you just kind of like inserted whatever game we were doing with it. But now I amplified it in my, my version is, is pretty good. I think it was just my version. I think I actually got the best out of your version. Oh yeah. That's definitely what happened there. It was a, it was a little more treble, I think with your voice and, uh, came through perfectly clear. So anyway, I spun the wheel tick, tick, tick, tick, tick,

tick, tick. And it landed on Kenny Pickett. How would you feel about Kenny Pickett for the Vikings quarterback for 2022? I would think that they're probably still going to be a team that goes eight and nine. I really do.

I think that any of these rookies, I mean, think about the sustained success that rookie quarterbacks have. Like Mac Jones last year, he's the only quarterback that made it to the playoffs and he had some good moments and he also had some clunkers. Like I would expect the exact same thing from a Kenny Pickett. But of course, I'm thinking long-term that that's obviously a much better situation because I think that the worst case scenario here with all the discourse around Kirk Cousins in the next four weeks are just going to be so bizarre. And so like,

just buckle up because the information that comes out from NFL media, which is absolutely carrying water for the team and what they're saying about Kirk Cousins and the smoke screens and everything else. And like, let's, let's just, I mean, all of that stuff, put it aside. Like, and also like, let's not act like Kirk Cousins is going to take a pay cut, like go off history here, people like don't just all of a sudden think that a zebra will change his stripes. Like the way he structured his deals before are the way that he's going to want to structure his new, his new deal. If he gets on with Minnesota or if he goes somewhere else and

ends up signing an extension, whatever. But I say all of that to say that no matter what happens you know in the short term like you're setting yourself up to be successful for next year and I think that that's a move when you have someone like Kenny Pickett I would assume obviously we're they'd be using the 12th overall pick to be able to get him it makes sense given kind of how we at least are laying out the quarterback class right now, post senior bowl and post, you know, some of the other bowl games. And we'll know more probably when the combine happens and things change after that. But I would be like, yeah,

this is what I would expect where you are, you're rebuilding your entire leadership structure. You might as well give yourself the credence to maybe take a step back as you're like letting people like learn how to be successful in this new system and then actually be successful a year from now. So like, I'd be, I, that's the long-term play. Yeah. Kenny Pickett in my mind is absolutely ideal. Like Malik Willis is really intriguing.

Kenny Pickett has been talked about as the top quarterback prospect. If they were to go eight, nine with Kenny Pickett and have moved Kirk, which we need to talk about your ideas on the price tag here, because it's the most common question, and I get different answers from different people. I have had people on the show who say, well, yeah, you should go for a first-round pick. There's all these teams that need quarterbacks.

I've had people on the show that say, what's who's trading for Kirk cousins. So, um, I, let me get your opinion on that in just a second, but eight and nine with Kenny Pickett would be a barrel of monkeys. I mean, it would be like his ups and downs would be interesting to look at as they are for any rookie quarterback. No rookie quarterback has ever taken his team to the super bowl, right? Like that just doesn't happen for a reason because there's bumps along the way, but it would also mean that you were good enough offensively to have your moments and for him to show that there is something there. And his personality is a little more of the leadership type from what I gather is playmaking

is a little more what you're looking for. And so even if he isn't a perfect prospect, that would be ideal to be able to build around Kenny Pickett and remove yourself from the bad cap situation in a year and then start spending like crazy in free agency. But of course, drafting Kenny Pickett would likely have to go along with the Kirk trade. It doesn't absolutely have to because he could stay for a year, but if he's the starting quarterback for 2022, then yes, it has to go along with a Kirk trade. So your opinion on the Kirk trade market. Well, you know,

I played this game when I was hosting radio this morning of like fill in the blank. And then we did it with like 10 or 11 different quarterbacks, like Aaron Rogers, all the way down to Kyler Murray and throwing Kirk in there, Baker Mayfield. I think this cycle of trades, we're going to end up seeing kind of what we saw.

And obviously there wasn't player compensation necessarily here, but like Miami, Philadelphia and San Francisco three-way trades. And I know that like, it won't get like to the NBA level, because obviously it can't in the NFL. I think it'd be great if we could see all these weird things happen. But the overall compensation, and I think there's going to just be,

whether you move him just to see him moved again, or a short-term type fix over the situation i tend to think that the compensation for kirk cousins the vikings are going to have to pay probably at least like 15 million of that 15 to 20 million of that base salary like what they're doing right now if they behind the scenes are thinking definitely like we need to like posture like we love this guy because you can't if you're if you're basically like not committing yourself to kirk cousins in a press conference or in any sort of public setting you're showing people yeah like well we just want to get him out of here like we'll get him out of here but like then you're shortchanging yourself and you're having to pay

for something that's not even on your roster so of course the comments right now but like no we want to extend him like that's a way to like get, get teams to be like, no, okay, they do value him. Maybe he's better than we think he is. It's kind of what Washington did the first time around, right? Like when they, you know, his two franchise tags, he plays on them, and then he ends up, like, hitting free agency. But I think that they'll have to pay at least, like, $15 million of that $35 million base salary just as far as, like,

the way that the trade would be set up i don't think they get a first round pick for him am i am i in the minority on that like i think definitely like a two and a three but i don't think that they get a first round pick for i think it's really difficult unless it's like certainly i mean like the multiple first round pick things with like an aaron rogers or a deshaun Watson, at least what we believe that Houston wants. I can understand it for those players, but even then it's difficult. I don't know. There would have to be the only way I think it would be a first round pick is if it's the conditional basis, kind of like how Philly and Indianapolis set up the Carson Wentz trade last year where it was a third round pick and then a 2022 conditional pick that if if Wentz played a certain amount which ended up turning into

what is it the 16th overall pick for the Eagles like that's a first round pick that's honestly the only way I could see the Vikings getting a first round pick for Kirk Cousins if it eventually turns into one I think it's a smart way to set up the structure because I think you're going to have more suitors if you do it that way versus like, we want your over your, your outright first round pick for whichever year. Well, that's what I was going to ask you is let's say the phone call comes in and

it's a Indianapolis and Indianapolis had a really intriguing one right now because they don't have a right. They don't have a first round pick cause they sent it to Philly to uh to philly so but they do have a first round pick for the following year what if they said and and this is what you know indy did last year with west yeah what if they said we'll give you either a two or a first the following season which would you rather have i would take the first the following season because you move you move on with him this year you still have your own first round pick and then let's say they go in in this scenario I believe we're still doing Kenny Pickett right like he's still a guy okay so you

have Kenny Pickett and then next year you have two first that's not it if you finish yeah if you finish eight and nine again let's just say that's like kind of around the ballpark so like you're looking at like having the 12th overall pick maybe again and then one who knows where uh anywhere you know beyond that still it's the first round pick i think that that sets you up because you can be addressing like another ed rusher because who knows you know what you're able to afford this year like i just, I just feel the Daniel Hunter thing is something that we have to keep talking about because it's not going away. You can address another cornerback. You can get another wide receiver and potentially be moving on from Adam

Thielen, like getting trade compensation for him, like trade now. And also I hate to say this, but it's like, you know, when he's on the other side of 30 and you start getting lower body injuries, you slow down as a receiver. That's like something that you have to like keep an eye out for that. It might soon be time to move on. So you can, you can get that replacement. I mean, there's a lot of receivers in this draft class too, but I say all that to say like that helps set Kevin O'Connell up and

Kweisi Adolfo Mensah for what they want to do beyond 2022. Like this is the long play move. You go that route. I would, I mean, anytime you can get a first round pick, I think you take it versus like the short term is short-term glory for the long-term gain. Folks support for purple insider is brought to you by manscaped. They are the best in men's below the waist grooming. Manscaped offers precision engineered the best in men's below the waist grooming. Manscaped offers precision engineered tools and they recently launched the ultimate men's hygiene bundle

performance package. 4 million men have trusted Manscaped and you can check out their exclusive offer for 20% off and free shipping with the code 20insider at manscaped.com. Manscaped sent me the performance package and I could say that it's a game changer, especially when it comes to their nose and eyebrow hair trimmer called the Weed Whacker. I'm a unibrow guy, so I need to keep that in check for all the YouTube videos and streams that we do. You've probably also heard of the Lawn Mower as well, and they've come out with a 4.0 version, which is waterproof. It has an LED light and advanced skin-safe technology, so you don't have to worry about any nicks or cuts.

Again, get 20% off and free shipping with the code 20INSIDER, that's 20INSIDER, at manscaped.com. 20% off with free shipping at manscaped.com, the code 20INSIDER. Unlock your confidence and always use the right tools for the job with Manscaped.com, the code 20insider. Unlock your confidence and always use the right tools for the job with Manscaped. I totally agree with you that a second round pick is fine, but a first round pick, especially if the Colts say go, oh, I don't know, nine and eight or something, could be in the middle of the first round.

If you have two mid first round picks to help continue to build, you just, this is the whole point where it's like, they could say super competitive, Uber competitive, whatever. Yeah. Right.

Right. I don't even know if that makes sense. Whatever word they want to use. But if you want to be really competitive, it, the path is there to look forward to that 2023 free agency. Like this year, try to nab some dudes who might be young ish, like 26, 27, The path is there to look forward to that 2023 free agency. Like this year, try to nab some dudes who might be youngish, like 26, 27, of which there are in the free agent pool.

Get them to longer term contracts, make them a part of your foundation, and then try to chase big fish when you have the Kirk contract gone. And then you're drafting multiple first round players to add into a team that has been stocked through free agency as well as the players you've already developed like derisaw jefferson like this is how you build a team like that it's not just well uh i have to try to save my rear end this year so um another nose tackle anybody like let brashad breland won a super bowl does that work for you like no i mean that's not that's just not how you really build a winner um so let me spin the wheel one more time here dick dick that you want to do the thing do do do do do do do do where will the

wheel stop where will it stop dick dick dick dick dick dick dick oh sam darn, a trade, let's say, Kirk Cousins for Sam Darnold. Now, if Sam Darnold- I don't like this. Now, hang on, hang on. Let me make the case. If Sam Darnold is traded by the Panthers, that makes $18 million in cap space for them. So that might not be a situation where you have to take back all the cap. Here's the argument for sam darnold you take him

he's on a one-year deal for 18 million you draft whoever else sure so this is the thing you don't have to only take one and you wouldn't have to worry about like if let's say you can so i'm still able to use my 12th overall pick to go get kenny pickett correct or malik willis if they're there and you would and you would you'd be fine letting them sit a year. I guess I could see it from that respect. I just, you're going to be not, you're you're this is that's eight and nine or seven and 10. Sam Darnold is not a very good quarterback. So yeah, that doesn't excite me. That's, this is a stop, get moves.

That is the ultimate stop, get moved to just get Kirk off your roster. That's not a build for the future move. That's okay. We got it. We got it to pull the plug now because we're in the same position next year at this point, if we don't, and he could be more expensive, like, and it just, no, no, no, no. Just stop. Get moved. Well, it wouldn't be straight up. This would be very Stafford for golf type of deal where there would have to be a, you know, additional compensation coming from the Carolina Panthers. So if they were giving you a second in Sam Darnold and you're giving them Kirk Cousins to try to save Matt Rule's job,

I like it from that perspective because that still allows you to draft a quarterback so you don't have to play Sam Darnold. He might end up being an expensive backup, but you've still eaten into the amount of cap space that you were going to spend at the quarterback position by about half. No, I don't disagree with that. I still think that, I mean, you create like, you do create a little bit of a headache for yourself in that situation. If you're like bringing him in and then, you know, if, if Kenny Pickett's not great right away, and then you're like, you know, vacillating between quarterbacks and you know I'd like to think that Kevin O'Connell being a quarter former quarterback himself would know how

to handle the position unlike we've seen in previous years from the head coach just of how to handle like if you even had like the slight ounce of controversy among the position how to handle it but it's it's a short-term move that does have a high ceiling for long-term gain because of the draft capital that you'd get back in return. And Carolina was always rumored early in the offseason to be a potential landing spot for Kirk. Now, how realistic that is, I mean, I don't know what the hell Matt Rule is building in Carolina and bringing in – what's his name?

The offensive coordinator, the one from, uh, Ben McAdoo. Oh yeah. Yeah. My God. Like you're, I don't know. What's Matt rule ever been doing? No, I don't know. You're shipping, you're shipping Kirk off to Siberia.

That's, that's what you're doing. And if you can get the right compensation back and like, honestly, with their cap situation, like what you had mentioned there, because they had gone ahead and picked up that fifth year option on Darnold like maybe that actually financially would give you because of what you'd be taking what Carolina would be responsible for versus like what the Vikings would be responsible for and cousins like I wonder if that somehow this might sound basic but cancel some of that stuff out because you'd already be like absorbing part of that player's guarantees so financially it could make sense i just oh god that would look so ugly like that would just be it doesn't excite me at all yes i mean expensive backup that's that's but that is

the ultimate get kirk off your roster move well there's a key point in this that you don't want if you're drafting someone you don't want a quarterback who might surprise you and then they put you in a hard position like what ryan tannahill did to tennessee and he's been really good for them so i don't want to say that it was a terrible move or anything uh it was a good move he's gotten them into the playoffs he got them the one seed so it's you know good job but he's put them in a position where he's just good enough but not great and they had to sign him and they have to keep them and they have to keep doing this because he's gotten them places. They're kind of in a spot with Kirk. Same thing, like as they are with Tennessee with John Robinson and the extension that they gave to Tannehill. Right. You don't want to end up with the quarterback you trade for sign playing well enough for people to want you to resign them.

Like Sam Darnold won't do that. And there's a rumors abound that Ryan Fitzpatrick was spotted in, which I think is funny. Like, couldn't it have been any relatively tall guy with that beard? I mean, I don't know. Like,

could you, could you see his IQ from a distance? But anyway, if Ryan Fitzpatrick was really here and has a chance to be that guy, he's perfect for it. He's been perfect for so many years. He is never going to threaten the guy you're drafting. That's the biggest thing. Don't get someone who threatens the guy that you're drafting.

No, 100%, which is why the scenario when we initially picked Kenny, or when the wheel picked Kenny Pickett, of him being here under Kirk for a year that just won't happen Cousins will not play that way having somebody who's going to threaten him for his job or if he knows he's out the door like I don't think a year's time would have changed anything here because of the Justin Fields thing that nearly happened last year it's just it's not a good situation to if you're starting to build something here if you're kevin o'connell you got to be looking at that knowing if god he was in the thick of that in in washington i mean he was around you know seeing you know kirk in 2017 i mean obviously he wasn't um like

during the rg3 kirk switch like i don't think he was you know too i think he was still in cleveland he was in cleveland in 2015 so like that was when all of that was happening. So we wouldn't have gotten to see what that looked like. But you can't be wanting to walk into a situation in Minnesota, your first job being like, God, I've got to like start fending these, like these people off of each other because it's so toxic. No, like clean slate yourself and don't put yourself in that situation where like you have to handle that headache from like a constant basis.

Cause it would be constant. Right. As we know. Yeah. Okay. Before we wrap up, let's wrap on a pie chart. Everyone has been waiting for this.

How, how about this as it stands right now, I will not make you pick the Vikings. Cause I don't even know if their opponents are out there. Maybe they are, but yeah, they are for 2022. Okay. Well, I haven't made a mock schedule. We'll do that at some point, but I'm just going to have you do a pie chart. Okay. So let's, let's do it this way. Okay. Your

four options are just where they stand right now, knowing so little about what they're doing with Kirk, what O'Connell's going to do with his offense, like all these things, you don't know anything at the moment, but you're feeling right now, does this team win six or fewer games is your first option. Okay. Between seven and nine games is your second option between 10 and 12 games is your third option and 13 or more games in 2022. Those are your options for a pie chart.

And I feel like we're going to need separate pie chart music while you think. Do you have any, like, are you like equipped for this? Maybe some like light alternative, just like it's pie charts. That you're making.

It's a pie chart. It's a pie chart that you're making. It's a pie chart. It's a pie chart that you're making. Okay. You done? No. It's a pie chart. Just give me like two seconds. Okay.

Solo. Okay. I'm ready. I'm ready. I'm ready. All right. Okay. Let's go.

Okay. I think I did the math here. Let me just add it up really quick. 25. That's not a lot. 55 right. Okay. Let's go. Okay. I think I did the math here. Let me just add it up really quick. 25. That's not a lot. Plus. Yes. I have to make it.

It can't go over a hundred. Okay. I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. All right. All right. So I'll start with my least.

I'll go like least to highest. I think it's kind of thrown in a new little wrinkle because I don't typically just like read it off, you know, verbatim as to what i've written so them winning 13 games or more i give them a five percent chance to do that i think that this is realistically like knowing what we know right now which is kurt cousins right now is still the quarterback of this team and that's going to handicap you with your salary cap like if this is the case if they're gonna like here's my scenario doing this they're letting him play out the 45 million dollar cap it they're not touching it they're like okay whatever Kirk like we're just kind of biting the bullet on this you're trying to restructure other pieces you're probably releasing

Daniil Hunter um or trying to trade him like you're you're trying to create the cap space you need and you're taking hits elsewhere on the roster. I also don't think that even if Aaron Rodgers leaves the division, and the Vikings do have, if Kirk is here, have the best quarterback in the division, so what? You win the NFC North, it doesn't mean that you're going to go win a Super Bowl. That doesn't mean that you are one of the best teams in the NFC.

It really doesn't. So 5% for that. I gave them winning 10 to 12 games a 15% chance. It still feels unrealistic to hit double-digit figures. I mean, think about how, quote-unquote, and I'm not doing it to be snarky, but everybody's like, oh, the roster's so good right now. Well, this so-good roster that you had in 2021 won you eight games right like negative

point differential is correct yes and a lot of those players are leaving who are veterans so there's that um six or fewer games i gave a 25 chance now obviously i'm kind of like moving the goal post here and being like well maybe kirk isn't the quarterback on this one. Like, I mean, we just don't know. So I kind of can like go any way that I want with it. Like what? And I just feel like six or fewer is if they have a Kirk here and they have Jefferson and they have feeling and a lot of the pieces, like you can't be that bad, right? Like I know that they're going to have to go through another defensive

rebuild and it can't possibly look worse than eight wins. Like really can't so of course seven to nine I put it a 55% chance it's just it's it's the easy play here for me because they're exactly who they are last then last year maybe they don't lose eight games by one score but they're probably playing in a lot of close games they're probably trying to figure it out along the way as they're trying to build this whole new thing with Kevin O'Connell and And that just feels like that's mediocrity. That is mediocrity, which is probably what you should expect. Like don't expect more. Don't set yourself up for failure, expect that and not to be super competitive.

You know what I was thinking about with this just now, when you're talking about like them going from, you know, seven to nine, which I think your pie chart was well done, very strong pie chart. And I didn't double check your math, but I think it's correct. It's all correct. I did it myself. Don't judge me. Just like in court, you need a corroboration. So there's a lot of legal terms will be used here, but think, think about it. Here's how I'm going to think about this is in, when you get to September and the temperature is 55 degrees, it feels freezing and terrible when you are in March and it reaches 55 degrees. You're like, wow, summer's on the way. Yeah. I

feel the same way about a nine and eight or eight and nine season for this year to next year, where it's like last year, it was just a cold eight and nine nine it was a team that underachieved it was poor coaching it was a bad culture it was lack of leadership like everything was bad they didn't come through in the biggest moments it's just you know it had this this slog feel to it and um you know even just the amount of people who have joined on and started listening to the show since by the numbers sort of shows you like the different feeling. And I think as we evaluate everything and look at every game is sort of this gathering of information and what's it going to be like, and what can it be at some point in the future,

55 degrees just feels a lot different. And that's, that's kind of how I'm going to think of it this year. No, I don't disagree with you. I think that it's a good starting point like you're not like if if you want to sell tickets if you want to fill us bank stadium that keeps people coming back because the intrigue's there where it's not like man you're like we'll sit this year out right like they're not so bad that they're going to win four games like some other teams maybe in the division so I think that it's it's it's mediocre enough to keep people intrigued of like, okay, 2023, that's the year. That's the year that things finally take off because they got their systems in

place. They got a year to figure it out, but I just don't see as of right now, unless all of a sudden they get to Sean Watson and all of a sudden the roster looks different. I don't see it looking more than seven to nine. And those things can change quickly, but I didn't take anything away from what Kevin O'Connell said that screamed to me, Oh, we're going to the super bowl, baby. Lock us in. There was nothing there. And I, and I think that that is a hundred percent the right approach.

And I thought that he did a great job in towing that line of not calling it like, Oh yeah, we're kind of rebuilding, like not saying that, but also not saying put your, you know, get, buy your tickets for, uh, you know, late January right now, folks, baby. Right. Yeah. That was, that was, uh, I think well, well done by him and well-balanced. So, uh, Courtney always great. And, uh, we will be together again soon, you know, probably next week. Uh, but also, but also Combine is coming up, which is always really fun for us. I mean, Draft Scout's coming. She's ready.

I've talked to her. That's the moment. She's answering my calls right now, which is obviously a very good sign. Pre-Combine Draft Sim will happen next week when we talk. How about we do that? Okay. Let's do it. Thanks for your time, Courtney.