Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - ESPN's Courtney Cronin gives her take on the Vikings not making a major direction change

Episode Date: March 22, 2022

ESPN's Courtney Cronin analyzes the Vikings vs. Bears offseasons so far and gives her reaction to the Vikings aiming to win with the same core roster rather than making big trades. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider, Matthew Collar here, along with ESPN's Courtney Cronin, who now is a Bears reporter. And it is super weird because every time you tweet, it has to do with the Bears. And I am just not used to this yet. I know. A lot of people have said that to me in my mentions. And I do appreciate the Vikings fans who have stuck around

and decided to continue to follow me I just think they will be very educated on what's happening in other places in the NFC North and I'm just trying to make you a more educated fan you know that's just what I'm here for but my gosh my there are a lot of people who want nothing to do with me anymore from the Minnesota side of things because I'm not tweeting about Daniil Hunter and the Vikings picking up his $18 million roster bonus or, you know, Harrison Phillips being all excited to come back to Minnesota because his grandparents were from there. Like I keep up with it, but I'm not like daily, like in a process now where I'm, when I'm talking about it. So it does feel a little weird to me, but it's been just about a month since I've been on the Bears beat and it's been great so far. I mean, free agency last week was a weird experience having a team that didn't really do a whole ton of anything. And then the one move that they did do fell through because of a failed physical, which is not a good look whatsoever but um you know i'm just i'm just kind of rolling with it i understand people who

don't want to read my stuff anymore and and they want to unfollow me and that's great but for those of you who have stuck around who still want to listen to me on this podcast i appreciate you yeah and uh you will be doing plenty of commenting still on what the vikings are doing which we'll get to just a second a lot of thoughts the funny The funny one was when the Bears signed Byron Pringle, and I was like, the Vikings are signing Byron? Oh, no. That's no. You saw my tweet, and you thought that.

Right, because I was just like, oh, that's a good one. And then they're like, oh, no, that's a good one for someone else. That's the Chicago Bears. Yeah, I actually, since I pulled my crystal ball out, and I wrote a piece last week about some receivers that they could still target in free agency because they were so quiet those first couple of days. And, you know, you see the Amari Cooper trade go down and honestly,

like what a good deal that now looks like for Cleveland and getting him. And then you see Christian Kirk explode the wide receiver market for whatever God forsaken reason Jacksonville decided to pay him that much, but then it all like comes back down DJ Chart goes somewhere new into the to Detroit and in other receivers have gone other places and the Viking excuse me the Bears were not all that active in it but I wrote a piece on you know guys that they could target and Byron Pringle was one of them so I'm one for one so far Juju Smith-Schuster was in there,

but immediately after Deshaun ends up going to the Cleveland Browns, Juju goes to the Kansas City Chiefs. You can mark him off the radar, but I am fully on receiver watch right now. I will probably be tweeting about many more of them in the days to come, because this one feels like Vikings free agency in 2019,

when I had my computer with me for three weeks straight after free agency had opened up. And I remember I was like, I was getting acupuncture and that was when they signed Josh. It's when I got like news, like that I broke about them signing Josh Klein. And I've got like a needle in my ear. I've got one in my hand. I'm like, take this out. I got to write. And like, but that's, that's But that's the curse of free agency, especially the second and third wave now where they're going to be signing a guy here, a guy there, like, you know, 10 a.m., 4 p.m., 7 p.m., 9 p.m. It's going to be an all around the clock thing. I honestly think for Minnesota, too, because they've done what they can do with the big name free agents. They have the exact same roster missing a couple of pieces that they had to let go in free agency. And they're going to be filling

those with bargain bin players and guys in the draft. The number of times that we have either planned to golf or actually been golfing. Oh my God. Yeah. When news breaks. Yeah. Ridiculous. I have a question for you though about the viking stuff and this will open the door for you to give your takes um i need your advice on how to talk about this without it always circling back to the same thing so i will be continuing to discuss on a daily basis everything the vikings do but it's always going to come back to the Cousins extension keeping every person here who we thought could potentially be moved and something that is really kind of blowing my mind is how much the rest of the league thought that Kirk was going Hunter was

going and other people like there were reports that they were trying to trade like adam theolin harrison smith and then it turns out the athletic reported that baker mayfield's camp believed that the browns were going to trade him for kirk cousins which is crazy and indianapolis believed that they were going to trade for kirk cousins and then none of this stuff happened and so we end up sitting kind of in the same spot that we've been sitting. And I need you to tell me, like, how do I talk about this without just always circling back to it looks the same. It's the same look. If, uh, if you're a Zoolander fan, it's the same look. It's, it's not blue steel or Latigra. It's the same look. It's the same roster. It's the same team. So help me talk about this without always ending up back in the same spot. It's hard. And I know that there are some people who get turned off by that because they think that the front office did the right thing in trying to run it back with players who are now a year older, be getting paid a lot more money.

I mean, Kirk Cousins getting $40 million next year. And then he's still under contract the year after that makes it incredibly difficult to move him. And Daniil Hunter is going to be 29 years old coming off, you know, a pec injury and the neck injury from a year before both of those guys are still on the roster. Like I understand that they have talented pieces and we all knew this. You had pieces you could build around on offense you got your bookends at tackle you've got Justin Jefferson who is a superstar you've got Dalvin Cook you've got Adam Thielen who's still a very good receiver albeit coming off of a high ankle sprain that required surgery you had things that you could do to still remain competitive now all the moves that they made show me that like if if it's not super bowl or bust i don't

know what you're doing and i was very surprised when you know when they pick up kirk cousins and when they extend him for one year and then the reports start coming out that they've been trying to trade to neil hunter nothing computed there it was short circuiting in in my mind because what does that, what are you doing? If you're, if they were, they were trying to move to Neil Hunter. I mean, going back before the Kirk extension took place, they were trying to move to Neil Hunter. So that would have been the week before free agency started. They were fielding calls from people I've spoken with about trying to move the pass rusher and get him somewhere else, get him the fresh start he

deserves and be in a spot where you're not forcing the team to pick up the $18 million option. Now I think the Vikings are smart enough to realize they have no pass rush without Daniil Hunter. You can say what you want about DJ Wanham. He cannot be your primary pass rusher. And I don't believe you can afford to go get another one in free agency unless you had the ability to move Daniil Hunter and get picks back. I don't know, maybe there'd be a player in the trade, but you needed to keep him. He is your pass rush. You're screwed without him. So I think it's hard to talk about this in a way that it

doesn't feel like we're on Groundhog Day every day. And I saw this tweet from Jason Fitzgerald from Over the Cap. The Vikings have been stuck in this vicious cycle for a couple of years now. And I completely agree having been as close to it as I was when I covered this team that I don't think that they see a way out. They really don't like if, because if they did, they wouldn't have re-signed Kirk to the one year extension and had him on the books and how expensive he's going to be next season and what that precludes you from doing in free agency you can't make a big splash now like what are you going to do who else are you going to go get I mean yeah there's some offensive linemen that are still out there but are you going to be overpaying for a guard over I mean the center market's depleted now so you are

you're going to roll with Garrett Bradbury next year I don't know what more that they could possibly do so you'd be turning your attention now to the defense. What are they doing at safety outside? Is it Cam Bynum now? The starter opposite Harrison Smith? What the hell are they doing at cornerback? Because there's no one there. And I know, like I've seen your mentions. I see people who think that we're like, you know, not, you know, not giving Cam Dancer the credit he deserves and, you know, hairs in hand and all these other like draft picks that really haven't amounted to anything. Show me, show me why, show me how I'm wrong there. Show me how we're wrong because you're going to talk about it in this, you're talking about it in reality that this team is a year older with many of the same

players and they let productive players they had go in free agency a la Xavier Woods. How do you replace those things? Like the defensive tackle signing didn't make a whole ton of sense to me. Like I know that they're switching to a three, four scheme and they basically had two of the same player and Michael Pierce and Dalvin Tomlinson, but none of these moves should excite Vikings fans to think, holy,

we're going to go win a Superbowl next year. That's not just not happening. Like they're stuck in a vicious cycle. I think that that is the most eloquent way that Jason Fitzgerald put it, that they can't, the only way that they can help themselves is by getting out of it eventually and moving on from the quarterback. But we've been talking about this for months now. Like we,

we knew that that was the only way that they could do it. And yet they doubled down on the approach that hasn't worked for them so far. And now we're expecting it to. And that's the thing that, you know, whenever we form an opinion on stuff, talk to a lot of different people who do a lot of different things in the league. And Jason Fitzgerald is a great resource because he runs over the cap.com, but he also meets with people from the league who help him out to run his site and have the best opinions he can have.

So he's a very credible source when it comes to stuff like this. And when he's saying, I don't really get it, they're stuck in this vicious cycle. And the people from PFF who some have Vikings fan backgrounds like Sam Monson and Eric Eager grew up a Vikings fan, but I mean, even the people who aren't and didn't grow up Vikings fans are looking at this situation and just saying, I'm not really sure what exactly they're doing here. And that is the hardest part is, okay, how do I break out of this conversation instead of just saying like, guys, it just doesn't really add up and I don't see a way out of it. And the only way I see out of it is drafting a quarterback and then just letting nature take its course. And I was trying to, you know, think about comparisons, like who is this like around

the league? And what I kept coming back to is it's like Cincinnati with Andy Dalton. And it's like Atlanta with old Matt Ryan. And it's like the New York Giants with Eli Manning, where all of those quarterbacks, given really great situations, could have been excellent. Old Eli Manning still got some of the playoffs one year, but they had to have a really good roster. Matt Ryan, it wasn't that long ago where they were competitive, and he hasn't played terribly at all.

Like his PFF grades are pretty solid. His numbers aren't that awful, but the roster has just not been good enough to make them competitive. And it feels like you kind of have a comparable quarterback to high-end Andy Dalton or fading Eli Manning or Matt Ryan, not mobile, can't be a playmaker anymore, that kind of thing.

And your roster is just bad. And the Giants got themselves in this position by having this happen. And your roster is just bad. And, and the giants got themselves in this position by having this happen. And every year they kept saying, well, we'll do this. We'll do that. We'll sign this player. We'll sign that player, or we'll run it back. We'll bring back these older guys. And I just don't think that there's, I cannot find it. You tell me if, if you know of a different one, I can't find a historical example. I would also throw the lions in here with Stafford in recent years where they thought, Oh, it was Jim Caldwell's fault. That's who it was. And then it was, well, we'll try signing Trey flowers. That'll do it. And eventually nature

took its course and they just had to tank. Um, I can't think of an example of a team that had a quarterback in his mid thirties and a roster that was really struggling and older players that suddenly flipped the switch and then, Oh, Whoa, suddenly they're good. Usually it takes quite a while to deconstruct and reconstruct. And I think they've just set the timeline back more than anything. Yeah. There is no example example that's the reason you can't find one because there's not one that would work because otherwise we'd be talking about that and using that as the gold standard like i i don't know i was gonna throw pittsburgh in the mix too because it was i mean there was writing on the wall that ben roethlisberger was going to be done and yes

he got them to the playoffs this year but like was a broken version of himself and they ended up losing anyways. Like not saying that, not truly comparing side by side, Matt, Kirk Cousins and Ben Roethlisberger. But I do think that you can draw some parallels there of like things that just once they stopped working, like Ben Roethlisberger had stopped working after a while and being what they needed him to be. Kirk Cousins hit his ceiling a long time ago, yet you're now expecting him to rise above and at 33, 34 years old, be something that he's not. It's just not going to work. And I don't think that that's necessarily pessimism as much as it is reality. And the fact that they chose to basically double down on the players that they have,

restructuring Adam Thielen's contract, picking up the option, excuse me, the bonus for Daniil Hunter, and now hopefully they're going to try to work out a long-term deal, I don't know, and hoping that he returns to form, keeping Kirk Cousins around. What more can they possibly do to make this roster that much better to where they're more than what they were last year or actually like into the playoffs and winning a game i don't think that that really exists so it's hard to talk about because it feels like groundhog day every year every free agency it feels like groundhog day when you have a quarterback of this caliber who is this expensive on your roster and it prevents you from doing things like even in 2019 when kirk was still like it was the second year under contract they had the option to be active players in free agency what did they do they overpaid because Anthony Barr got homesick and wanted to come back to the Vikings they overpaid for him and what did that yield a decent season for him in 2019 he didn't play barely at all in 2020 because of the

injury and he was hurt and limited to 11 games last year he never returned to the pro bowl form that they had gambled on when they gave him that deal and that prevented them from doing anything of note elsewhere in free agency it feels like they kind of like walked themselves into the same situation this year and that's tough for fans to stomach because they want your team to be you you know, to have a different approach and not just do the same thing that you've done every single year, hoping for a different result. It takes patience. It takes gall to stomach a rebuild, to stomach letting 25 plus players go in free agency and saying, all right, probably going to suck this year, but we're going to build

for the long-term approach with, you know, the draft and free agency and getting comp picks. I mean, who am I talking about right now? I'm talking about the Chicago bears. And I know there'll be some people who are listening to me saying, wow, you're a Homer for them already. Like you're already like thinking that they did a great job and they dodged a massive bullet in not signing Larry Ogunjobi because of the failed physical. They'd look like idiots for that. Like, did you not do your homework that this guy had a foot injury two months ago? It's 300-something pounds, and you're expecting to be, like, good to go, playing three technique where you have to rush the passer and handle double teams? No, that was a bad look, and I'm the first one to call him out for that.

But, like, I think the approach that Ryan Poles is taking is probably what Kwesi wanted to do, but he was forced into the situation from people that I've talked to people. Have you talked to people who are in the know where the, the moves that they made don't necessarily line up with what I think Kwesi wanted to do when he came in. The, uh, Larry Oga, Joby thing. I've got a conspiracy theory on that, that they agreed to this contract with him. And then people called Ryan Poles and were like, dude, what? No, don't do that. Are you kidding me? thing i've got a conspiracy theory on that that they agreed to this contract with him and then

people called ryan poles and were like dude what no don't do that are you kidding me that's a terrible idea point three million dollars at an average annual value for his contract one team that i talked to said that they had him valued around five to six million dollars because of the foot injury and because the ceiling of his team, a ceiling of his like limitations. Right. He's not a good player. And they were about to make him like a top five average annual value

defensive tackle. It's like, Hey, Ryan pulls, just cause you like this guy coming out, does not mean that. And that's what scout GMs often do. Like, Oh, I love this guy coming out. We got to sign them. And there was even a study. That was five years ago. Yeah. Right. Right. And there was even a study that showed that like guys who

were drafted high, just keep getting signed no matter what, because there's always someone in the league who was high on them coming out in the draft, which is sort of funny. That's a Laquan Treadwell was still in the NFL last year. You know, who it's reminding me of historically is actually the Baltimore Ravens post Super Bowl with Joe Flacco. Listen to these seasons post Super Bowl with Joe Flacco. They went eight and eight, 10 and six, five and 11, eight and eight, nine and seven, 10 and six. And then finally it gets turned over to Lamar Jackson after that. And they never had to go all the way to the bottom aside from that 1 5 and 11 season but joe

flacco just wasn't good enough and faded and another point about joe flacco is that he was a pretty good quarterback and i know there was the you know is he elite sort of thing and he was never really an elite quarterback but the thing is that by the age of 33 joe flacco was pretty much done as an nfl starter and i don't know that his injury history was really insane it's like something that did the vikings think of the fact that you know quarterbacks of kirk cousins age are not guaranteed to continue to be good just because aaron rogers has uh when i was looking for quarterbacks past the age of 33, 34, you're actually hard pressed to find any in the last 20 years, aside from the truly elite, like Hall of Fame, gold jacket legends that continue to be great long-term. And I mean, if they're going to keep them as their

quarterback for the next two years, and that's why I think that the whole nature takes its course thing might end up happening where Cousins had his best PFF graded season of his career last year. What if he doesn't like, well, what if he doesn't play the same way? What if there is some regression there? I mean, because age hits everybody differently and at different times. And if he falls off even a little bit physically, I mean, you're talking about a guy who just can't do it anymore. That's like Joe Flacco where he didn't have athleticism mobility to, to, you know,

fall back on. It was really just this cannon. And when that wasn't working anymore, it was just over. And I wonder if they're going all in trying to win, which I'm, I'm not really sure if they are. The moves would suggest it.

Like, I just cannot understand. You cannot justify what they did unless you believe that this team thinks truly what the ownership has said publicly, that they still want to be a competitive team. They expect to win games in 2022. So those moves reflect a team that's like, all right, we're going to contend. Maybe they

think that Devontae Adams not being in the division is that much more of a benefit to them. I don't know. Like, yeah. Does it make your corners jobs a little bit easier here, here on out? Sure. I don't know who they're going to replace Devontae Adams with. You'd like to think that it'll be somebody that could at least like be better than alan lazard and um i just don't get the long play here like it just it feels like like you were talking about a timeline this sets it back like and we have been on the cusp of this team trying to reset its timeline twice now since since kirk cousins was signed in 2018 they made a purely financial decision in 2020 to extend him that monday morning a free

agency week and then what did they do like that was a move like okay they're going all in they're gonna go to the super bowl yeah yeah they after like letting like nine players go from defense mind you then they go trade stefan diggs later that day like does not compute does not make sense that should have been the rebuild year they're in a situation now where they re-signed Kirk. They re-signed Daniil. They picked up the roster bonus for Daniil Hunter. They restructured Adam Thielen. They're going to keep Harrison Smith around, like all these things.

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So go to HelloFresh.com. That's HelloFresh.com slash Insider16. HelloFresh.com slash Insider16. Use the code Insider16 for up to 16 meals for free and three free gifts hello fresh america's number one meal kit well and the vikings are according to uh the pff bet twitter account which pays attention to some of the interesting like things going on in the gambling world the vikings are a favorite to get judean clown, which of course they would have to change all that money over from Daniel Hunter to create cap space and then go after Clowney, which just wouldn't really make sense at all. It would be very similar in my mind

to a Patrick Peterson deal last year where you went like, okay, I mean, Patrick Peterson might be fine, but what's the point? What's the point of just filling a space with someone short term who's an older free agent and has pitfalls specifically with Jadavia and Clowney and the injuries? And if they do that, so that's the thing. If they do something like that, then it's OK. You are all in, apparently. But that's why I said I don't really know what it is at the moment, because they haven't done or had

the space to do anything of extreme significance. Harrison Phillips and Jordan Hicks are not extreme significance. They're just fill a hole and be a guy. If they do something of serious significance to try to win this year, then it's okay. Now the pressure is all in, um, to, for you guys to win. What could that possibly be though, with their their salary cap situation the way that it is, unless they surprise some people and pull something off a trade during the draft to try to get draft capital? I don't see that happening.

That's why I think that if nothing like that happens, if they don't sign a clowny or make a trade for somebody that's gonna help them win right right away that have you ever had a situation in your life where there was something that was really stressing you out and you thought like oh this this situation is so tough and I don't know what to do and it's very difficult and then you did nothing and it just sort of faded away like that might happen with this they might just do nothing and then go through next year and go 5 and 12 because they're not a good football team and cousins regresses a little delvin cook regresses

a little like you mentioned the age factor is serious with that with the ages of some of these players and it could be like the natural tank like there's a natural hat trick like there's a natural tank where you didn't mean it but it just happened but like why would you spend all that money that's financial irresponsibility and i mean what's done is done you can't argue it anymore and i know there are going to be people out there who will point at all of the quarterbacks who signed in free agency and those that are you know already with their teams that like this is market value for a quarterback of Kirk Cousins caliber, like a mediocre to sometimes good quarterback, this is what he's owed. The Vikings don't necessarily need to be the, didn't need to

be the ones to pay that. They could have let the Colts do it. I mean, the reports that were out there that they were fielding calls and trade scenarios. I wonder what stopped that up. Was it ownership truly saying, no, no, we like this guy. We want to win with him. When there have also been things that have come out that ownership wasn't all in on Kirk cousins and thought that they had a quarterback problem during the 2020 season. Like you can't have it both ways. Doesn't it feel like the ownership of this team, just when you put together the pieces, just sort of blowing around in the wind, like last year, Oh, we were were close because we lost a couple of close games so now we got to keep him because he played well from what we it's very much been whatever we just

saw is the truth for this ownership of the team we just saw kirk win a playoff game so that's it's recency bias right like but but that's my that's my thing about, like, if you're Kwesi Adafo-Mensah, the 3D chess version is, okay, I'll do everything you guys want this year. We'll keep Thielen. We'll keep Kirk. We won't trade away Hunter. We'll just do everything you guys want, owners. And then, whoops, we went 5-12. So your idea didn't work.

And I don't want to speak for Kwesia da fomenta and say that his idea was to move everyone but they tried to move everyone so it seems like that was his idea um but then they weren't allowed or it didn't come to fruition so now it can just happen and and if you think that it can't there's a ton of examples that would say yes you can actually have a decent quarterback and a horrendous roster and end up in a tank situation and i don't mean a two win but like a six win because right now it's pretty hard to see this team winning any more than seven games just based on who they have and you mentioned all the free agents that's the difference between if the ownership is saying oh we're close we just

needed a field goal last year you think right but you can't get last year's team and replay it like this isn't a simulation that we live in though sometimes it feels like it so anyway i just i just wonder like that keeps coming to my mind of think about denver last year like where they say okay you know we'll see vic fangio was it was it uh you know was it just drew lock's fault let's see we'll get you a quarterback and we'll see what you got and then it was like the the natural thing took place and they moved out the coach and they got the quarterback and everything that's the only way i could look at this and say well it could actually end up working out if just the

forces of gravity send them down from where they are now and then they have hurt themselves long term with the cap but eventually it has to go in the direction that it's going to go yeah and i think that will turn fans off because they saw a window. Most fans that I've interacted with, the ones that aren't like psychos who like stand for players that make no sense. But, you know, I don't think you and I have talked since the, since the extension went down on that Sunday night, I was getting ready to host radio from eight to midnight.

And it was like, Oh my goodness, Tom Brady. Oh, by the way, let's sneak the cork like sneak the kirk cousins extension news and why do you that's calculated like they did that because they knew that they were going to get crucified for doing it and it's like oh well everybody's talking about tom brady oh by the way kirk cousins signed another extension no kirk press conference to announce an extension right like they're so excited about it that they haven't talked about it just the um just the photo of him in that room, which might be in winter might be at Egan,

like that had him signing and smiling at the camera. And the comments on that tweet were really fun. Like this isn't a move that you should be all that excited about. Cause it's more of the same. So if you're a fan and realizing, wow, I'm going to have to like, because they haven't even like teetered on the edge of rebuilding yet. Like they have to fully commit to it because they haven't. And until they're like willing to like face the inevitable and look at what

they're doing and, and say like, okay, we're ready to make a change. This is what you're going to get. And it's, it's a tough spot for Vikings fans to be in because now they turn their attention to the draft because free agency, it's not over, but like, and you can always add players, you know, they've added players like in June last year, like some corners and, you know, there's still cornerbacks out on like, man, I hope we hit on some picks because this is not, they're not a team that can really take best player available. They've got to go after their needs because they have a lot of holes on the defensive side of the ball, especially to fill. And you're going to expect impact players if you don't get anybody else in free agency. And, you know, when you're picking at 12, like you had

mentioned with drafting a quarterback, I think it's a smart idea. I think they should. But since you have a needed cornerback, do you end up doing that instead of getting a quarterback? I like the trade down, still take a quarterback idea. I've been thinking about just the other franchises that have done the natural tank, like Philadelphia. They wanted to get rid of Wentz, and they just sort of let it be like they just, you know, we're just not going to really help the roster that much. And they just let it

be. And it played itself out and they fired Doug Peterson and reset their entire franchise. Seattle with the natural tank last year, they didn't do really anything to vastly improve their roster. They let it play out and then they moved on from russell wilson so this has actually kind of happened many times where i mean even new orleans last year they reworked a lot of contracts to be cap compliant but they didn't do a ton of stuff and just what signed jamis winston trevor simeon stuck with tasem hill let it play out they didn't tank but they ended up at a point where they needed to do some resetting of their franchise. Sean Payton moves on and so forth. So I think that this actually does happen kind of all the time.

It's just really hard to tell people like, oh yeah, just let it play out. Let them go eight, nine or seven and 10 or something. It can be the best thing for them. Yeah, like fans are not going to want to hear that because they just went eight and nine and seven and nine a year before that and that wasn't a good feeling right last year was supposed to be the natural tank not this year um and so i guess the answer my original question to you was

tell me how i'm supposed to not focus on this all the time and you have no answer because if i was still on the beat it'd be really difficult to kind of like shine this and not make it you know shining a turd effectively i'm not saying that the roster's a turd but like you get what i mean it's hard to like make this look like anything other than it is you have a ton of talent on this team but it's not widespread at every single position like i mentioned before with the core offensive players you have those those are people you could build around. And what good would it be for those players if you didn't have something new, a fresh perspective at quarterback, a new quarterback that could maybe take their games to the next level? Because we've seen what we're going to see from Adam Thielen. Justin Jefferson

is on the cusp of not even his prime. He's 23 years old and he's really damn good. And I wonder how much better he can get with kirk cousins like there's all these other players that benefit or don't benefit from this situation with them re-signing kirk cousins and i think that that's a problem and you have to talk about it as such like it's not being negative it's just being realistic like because we've been accused before of like gosh you guys like guys like, I'm not God. I remember this, like right as I was leaving the beat and I can't remember like what had happened, but people were like, you know, yelling at me about the offensive line for

some reason and being like, you said it was fixed in May of last year after they got Wyatt Davis and Christian Darisaw and like, that there wasn't going to be a problem. I said, no. At that time, I said that it wasn't going to be the main storyline of training camp because they drafted Wyatt Davis to be the starting right guard. They drafted Christian Derrissaw

to take over for Riley Reif at left tackle. You know what I heard at the combine? That was a Rick Spielman special where he didn't listen to anyone else in the room on Wyatt Davis. He went after his guy, two scouts. I talked to in the Minnesota Vikings organization said that this guy wasn't even a backup grade for them. Okay. That's what, that's what the reality of this situation was.

So don't come at us and don't like, you know, when, when, when we are being sold a bill of goods here on players that of course he was brought in in the pretense of it. He was brought in to be the starting right guard for the Minnesota Vikings. Otherwise you don't spend a third round draft pick on him. So the same thing applies to the situation that you were dealing with this year and covering this team on an everyday basis. What else are you supposed to say? You're supposed to lie and all of a sudden say, Oh no, this roster, even though it's the exact same as it was last year, minus a couple of pieces, totally set for an NFC championship game. Sign me up. No, that's false pretense. It's what it is.

And I know that I've cursed twice on this podcast already, but I don't want to hear it anymore. Cause like I see it, I still see it. Cause I still follow Vikings land. Cause I'm still attached to it in many ways. I still cover the NFC North. And I just think it's all false. It's all, none of it makes sense. If you say that this group is going to be vastly different, just because you have a coach in here who is an office and offensive minded coach. And it's worked with Kirk before. I'd love to see Kevin O'Connell crack the code. I really would, because then I'd have some belief and some faith that it can actually happen. But until it does, you have to call this what it is. And it's a middling pack NFC team. I think the, uh, the game to be played here might be, do I sound ridiculous or is this, or is this gaslighting just the, that's a good one. I love that game.

That's a good one. Maybe I, okay. We'll try this real quick. I will tell you ways to talk yourself into it or to not come back to the same conclusion. And you could say like, am I trying to gaslight you? Okay.

So if I were to tell, if I were to tell you that they have a new offensive line coach and a new system that can benefit the offensive line that they can protect cousins better and he can perform better because of his clean pocket rating are you buying that or is that gaslighting it's like borderline gaslighting because the true definition of gaslighting it's emotional abuse where the abuser or bully misleads the target and creates a false narrative and it makes you question your own judgments in reality. I do think that a new offensive line coach this year, like what offensive lineman are you working with? Who are your interior guys? If it's the same interior guys guys you're running the same zone blocking scheme it's going to be the same result so i guess that's that's teetering on the like it's trying to give hope it's not like full-on gaslighting but it's it's teetering on the on the edge of that okay

yeah well i right gaslighting would be like trying to like sell me that like dj want them is going to be denise hunter that is what that is right establishing the line of gaslight all right let's try a couple more then uh if justin jefferson becomes kevin o'connell's cooper cup then they could take the offense to new heights that have never been realized with previous offensive coordinators is that gaslighting or is that uh reasonable probably reasonable i don't think that's a form of gaslighting for that because justin jefferson is capable of doing that and there were moments last year where he wasn't throwing the ball so like that would have to take the buy-in from kirk cousins and that it becomes

a reality far sooner than week nine because we know that he didn't have a sophomore slump last year the slow start was because they couldn't figure out ways to get him the ball and some of that had to do with the offensive line and the protections some of that had to do with Kirk being scared in many situations there's a reason his touchdown interception ratio was so low but like comb through that a little bit more that's because of checkdowns that's because of not taking the giving his his star receiver a 50-50 ball and saying go up and and get it and win. Like, there was a lot of that. So I do think if they're able to use Justin Jefferson, I really want to see him go back in the slot.

I know that's not exactly the most popular opinion by a lot of people, but like Cooper Cup was his most successful in the slot. Yes, they are different receivers. Justin Jefferson set a franchise or school record at LSU during the national championship season when he had 110 catches out of the slot and was an incredibly productive receiver. Anywhere you line him up, it's going to be great, but I'd like to see him in there a little bit more. Folks, the hockey and basketball teams here in town are headed down the stretch toward the playoffs, and you can get yourself ready by going

to sodastick.com and use the code PURPLEINSIDER for 15% off all Minnesota sports inspired goods. That's soda stick S O T A S T I C K.com use code purple insider for 15% off. Yeah, I don't think it's gaslighting, but I also think that what the impact on the entire production, um, is probably gaslighting. Because if you're saying that that's going to take the offense to new heights that it's never achieved, like Justin Jefferson has taken this franchise by storm over the last two years.

Like that you are, you're probably 95% the way there with Justin Jefferson. If there's five more percent, that's great. But does that take you to being this unbelievable offense when there's fundamental problems? It would require other players being around that same level. It would require Irv Smith Jr. coming back

and being exactly what we thought he was going to be the year he was drafted. It's going to require Adam Thielen not having lost a step because of the injury. Yeah, there's ways to believe that that could happen, but it's can't, you're not getting that reliant upon Justin Jefferson solely. Right.

How about this? This is the last one. And then we can do a quick drafts in. Is it gaslighting? If I were to say that their failures last year were more Mike Zimmer's fault than players. More Mike Zimmer than the roster. It's a tough one because I put a lot of this on Zim.

I do. And I think I put a lot of it on Rick too. Because there are moments where I agreed with Mike when he was taking shots at Spielman. at at Spielman about like, oh, we don't have any we have a lack of depth. Like we're just dealt the hand that we're dealt. Zimmer didn't put this team in a good position to win last year. And I think that that really came and bit this team in the butt. And I don't know if I'd say that's gaslighting as more as it is like a fact more than it being the players. I mean, the players have to be put in. They have to go make plays and they're put in position to

go do that but I'll say it's quasi gaslighting beats you can pin a lot of that blame on Kirk Cousins you can and certainly Mike Zimmer does and I would believe that you know if I'm evaluating too I put a ton of the blame on Kirk Cous cousins and on the defense and on a lot of the players but zimmer's the one ultimately in charge there and i don't think that his team was was not not ready to play it's not the preparation part i just don't think that they were i think they got out schemed and out coached i think where it's gaslighting is it doesn't really matter like you don't get to replay last year now if, if you got to give me Sean McVay as the head coach of the Vikings last year versus Mike Zimmer, they're probably a 10 win team as opposed to an eight win team. But that doesn't matter because this roster is not last year's roster.

And that's the biggest trouble with connecting it to last year and saying, well, this could be better and this could be better. I remember, I think maybe I've brought this up before, but Justice Mosqueda, who's a very smart guy on Twitter, he was talking about how every eight win team believes there are a few things away from being a 12 to 14 win team. It's like, that's so true. Like, oh, you're just,

you're a few fourth down decisions away. You're a few, right? Like being nice to your quarterback away. A few defensive stops from eight losses that were decided by one score, Right. Right. That can be true, but also not say anything about what the future is going to be. Right. So I think, I think that that one actually is gaslighting because it's a different scenario every single year. And so the scenario you're in right now is different from what it was last year.

I think if they had fired Mike Zimmer after 2020 and someone else coached the team last year, who was better that they would have won more games. I still don't think they're a Superbowl contender. The other part of why it's gaslighting is Kevin O'Connell seems like a really great guy. And I think he's going to set a much nicer tone for this team. That doesn't mean he's a great coach we have to find that out i'm not saying he isn't but how would i know that he is like how that how would i know that he's so much better than what they've had before so that's the other part of it so i think that the more you pin on mike zimmer being his fault and like saying that now that he's gone you're in a much better spot for this year to win the more gaslighting it probably is don't disagree okay quick drafts him i'm all the way down our draft scout returns

okay he's here all right he's ready okay so i am uh i am at the vikings first you're gonna help me make this pick because your squad has no first round pick so you have to be involved in this uh all right so off the board real quick i'll run. So you have to be involved in this. All right. So off the board real quick, I'll run through them. You have all the players that you expect. Aiden Hutchinson, Kyle Hamilton, Ikea, Iquanu, Kavon Thibodeau, all these players off the board, Evan Neal, Sauce Gardner, Derek Stingley, Trayvon Walker, Charles Cross, Garrett Wilson, and Drake London, which means all the quarterbacks are on

the board at the moment. Also, except for Drake London and Garrett Wilson, the receivers are on the board. The defensive linemen are on the board. The guy who I think the Vikings would pick here is George Karolafdis from Purdue, who's the top edge rusher, but also Trent McDuffie, cornerback, more of a nickel guy, I think. Tyler Linderbaum is here. Chris Olave. There's a lot of different options here that the Vikings could go with, but if they were at 12 and Malik Wills was not taken yet and they don't pick him, we just crush them, right? If Malik Wills is on the board and they do not take him at 12, we just go absolutely ballistic. Am I wrong? No, because even though you have Kirk cousins under contract for this year and next, you still have to start thinking about the future.

And it has to come via first round pick because you're taking too much of a gamble on these third round quarterbacks, I E Kellen Mond, who they are not sold on and is not going to be a starting quarterback for the Minnesota Vikings. You can book that. I think that they learned their mistake from last year. I mean, yes, they tried to trade up and get Justin Fields, but they also saw that Mac Jones was right there when they traded back. Yes, you crush them if they don't do that, because at this point, you got to take a first round quarterback if he's available to you. Okay.

I'm just, I'm just taking him in this draft sim, because that's a hundred percent what I would do. And if they passed on him, unless the only other scenario would be this, if Pittsburgh said, look, we'll give you the franchise, give us Malik Willis. And then at 20, you draft Matt Corral or Desmond Ritter. Then I would not go completely insane. Okay. With the 39th.

Oh no. I only put in the Vikings. Are you doing this along? I'm doing the Vikings and I am doing the bears. Oh, okay. So who would you pick then with 12? If it wasn't Willis?

Well, I didn't actually go at 12. I ended up taking, I traded with the, hold on. Let me see what it was. Was it Atlanta? Or i just did this a few minutes ago i ended up trading with the philadelphia eagles i sent them the 12th overall pick in

exchange for number 19 and i think it's 166 um because i figure i was going to use your logic from our earlier conversation where we talked about, you can still probably get a quarterback here. Um, at any point later on in the draft, is it going to be Malik Willis? Probably not, but you know, the guys that were available to me at this spot at number, where was I? Um, at number 19, Sam Howell, Desmond Ritter, Matt Corral, and Kenny Pickett. So I decided, I don't know why Sam Howell, why PFF has him ranked this high.

I've seen a couple North Carolina games, and I was not all that impressed. So I'm drafting Matt Corral at 19. Do you hate it? I love it. I mean, a trade down, pick up more draft assets. And I got my quarterback. I mean, I think this is the way to go i look if they draft a defensive end or a corner i completely get it i but if but if they do this trade down

accumulate assets get a quarterback for the future that'll just be really smart i think and i and i know that like my my mock draft i did i did i'll give you my second round pick in a minute my they didn't like that as much as it as much as i thought i did the trade itself i think was graded as an a from pff which you know thank you um but for matt corral they gave it a c plus pick and i'm just kind of wondering like what do they not necessarily like about him um as much i mean he didn't have like any of his weapons in 2021 that he had in 2020, and he's still produced. So I think that it's a good option. Get somebody in there to be able to compete for a spot that he might be taking on in 2023. Yes, I know Kirk Cousins is still

under contract, but there's no saying that they wouldn't try to trade him next year. Yes, he does have a no trade clause well aware of all of these things start building for the future and start doing it without just like a third round pick because that stuff doesn't usually tip work out i don't as an aside the houston texans saying nope go to davis mills keeping it going blah blah blah not even like giving baker mayfield a sniff at this point or like doing anything like, I don't get it. But, um, but anyways, you can't, can you really go wrong having Matt Corral or like any other first round quarterback in the mix? No, no. I mean, I, I honestly think the answer is, uh, that anyone you're picking there probably has equal odds of succeeding. I think Willis is far ahead of the

others in terms of his ceiling, but the rest are pretty equal. I also think this is where you're at with the Vikings. I'm seeing things that the Texans are doing, and I'm like, oh, that kind of makes sense because you can't win this year, so you might as well just play it out. You'd be the king of the mid-level deal, which they have been. Right. You just play it out. Look for free agents that might be something for you in the future. And they've got three first round draft picks the next couple years they'll be fine so the exactly accumulate draft assets like they're stinking texans that are one of the most coolest franchises in the league doing things right so are the jaguars anyway um i went with sky

more in the second round for the bears love the pick love the pick do you all right so do you want me to like go back and forth and like tell you what like my do you want me just to finish up my minnesota vikings uh yeah well why don't you tell me why don't you tell me who you went with the bears at 39 at 39 okay we'll go this way at 39 i did the exact same thing i went with sky more because he like i was i've been talking with a couple of our draft analysts at ESPN. That is a perfect second round receiver. And the value that you can get in the second round for players of his caliber are huge. I mean, there's definitely a couple other names that I would consider for the Chicago Bears at 39. But I think the sweet spot for them in the second round, if they're not going to try to trade up,

is to go get a wide receiver at some point like in whether it's those both those picks like so he's a slot receiver to me he looks a lot like Darnell Mooney in that sense and so you know getting open creating separation good hands those are things that I think the Bears want to see at the receiver position because they have nobody right now outside of Byron Pringle who they just traded for in free age excuse me they just acquired as a free agent from Kansas City and he's a slot guy and then they got Equinemius St. Brown who like has caught 59% of his targets over three years so like are you excited about that no but getting

someone like Sky Moore like you need a lot of weapons around justin fields so i really like this pick i'm glad that we're on the same page about this one yep uh just stacking weapons for him if they were to go with an offensive lineman there would probably be fine and then with the vikings i just went with an edge rusher drake jackson out of usc okay just i mean to me it's whatever edge rusher corner is the best player there for the vikings if they were to surprise us and go with a quarterback in the first round then you have to start addressing the needs right away um i think edge rusher class the edge rusher class is very good i also think though too that what tampa bay did was in the second and third and fourth round they just started

drafting every corner around and a couple of them worked out. And then they filled up their defensive line with, like, Indomitian Sioux and Jason Pierre-Paul and players that they could get in free agency. So even though I did draft a defensive end here for the Vikings, I don't think it's nuts in the second, third, fourth rounds to just draft corner, corner, corner. Like, just take that mass approach. Can never have too much and all

right so like my my second round pick for the bears is the same as it is for the vikings so i'll just give it to you right now for both so obviously the vikings need cornerbacks the chicago bears need cornerbacks jaylen petrie i think is his name how you pronounce his last name from baylor he's somebody who played the star position so So that means that he can play it's that's a position. It takes like a lot of like quick processing. You're, you know, you're basically like navigating traffic and like being a traffic cop in the back end of your defense in playing that position.

So he's versatile. And I think that you can play him a lot of different spots. So for the Vikings, if you're not bringing back McKenzie Alexander, if you're not bringing back, so there'd be your potential, your nickel. Depending on what you're going to do at outside corner, maybe he even gets a look there. So, I mean, the guy's got versatility. I think NFL.com had his grade, his overall outlook,

as a good backup with the potential to develop into a starter. That's probably what you expect out of a second round corner. So I did him for both teams. It's funny about that is the PFF draft simulator. They'll update it with things that are happening. But with every draft sim, that guy is around. I know.

Everyone's sending me. Last year was Jalen Darden was the guy that everyone drafted. And this year it's a Petrie. So Courtney, our draft scout making your return. We will get together again soon and see what else has ensued so far. And I think probably each week I'll be like,

okay, talk me out of being too aggressive about how this team is just going to be the same. So we'll see how it goes. But I appreciate your time. And I wish you all the diet Dr. Pepper in the world on your new beat. Oh, man, there's so much of it in the media room. I know you are just seething with jealousy right now.

I am. It's true. Oh, well, I'll just have to continue to bring my own. All right. Thanks, Courtney. And thank you all for listening.