Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - ESPN's Courtney Cronin is looking for a prove-it win from the Vikings vs. Browns

Episode Date: October 1, 2021

Matthew Coller and ESPN's Courtney Cronin preview Vikings-Browns and talk about how badly the Vikings need a win that shows they can be a very good team this year. What will a win say about Kirk Cousins and the offense's sustainability. Why should the Vikings be concerned about Cleveland's running game? And Courtney tells a great story about Jared Allen and Kevin Stefanski Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Whether you own a bustling hair salon or a hot new bakery, you need business insurance that can keep up with your evolving needs. With flexible coverage options from TD Insurance, you only pay for what you need. TD. Ready for you. Welcome to another episode of Football Insider. Matthew Collar here inside TCO Performance Center with ESPN's Courtney Cronin. Courtney, we have ourselves a large, important football contest. That's exciting. Yeah, it's the return that everyone's talking about that's not Tom Brady going back to Foxborough, right?

Right. Like this is, I don't know, the 1B option is what we'll call it. The early slate of games, that's the big one because Kevin Stefanski comes back to Minnesota after he wins Coach of the Year in his first year in Cleveland and is he going to stick it to Mike Zimmer? Is Zimmer going to pull out all the tricks and exotic blitzes and everything else to try to school the kid that was on his staff?

I don't know. There's a lot of weird storylines with this game. But, yeah, it's huge. We're already four weeks into this thing, which is nuts when you think about how quickly the season's gone and just kind of where things stand for both of these teams. It's probably the most excited I've been for a football game for this team in probably two years okay so I was gonna throw this by you uh our friend Will Regetz retweeted something and I'm gonna try to pull it up here to make a to make your point

stronger um that it's been 640 something days for the Vikings since they were above 500, which is the fifth most days since they had a day that they were above 500, which I know is like the goofiest, most convoluted stat. But it tells you, think about how long it's been since this team had a game that was truly important. I mean, okay, Chicago last year to get maybe the seventh seed. Okay. All right. Was that, it was that exciting to people? Uh, I don't, I don't know if it really was, it was sort of like if you beat Chicago, maybe you make the playoffs, but this team clearly is

not good last year. And then they just go and get whipped in new Orleans. But this one, because there is so much season left to go, it would be one of those wins that sort of puts the gas pedal down and says, OK, those first two weeks were fluky and you are actually good. And now people should take you seriously. And because of when the bye falls this year, we're a couple of weeks away from that. So the outcome of what happens against Cleveland, if you're two and two going into Detroit and then on the road to close it out before the bye week at Carolina, like you could be, you know, four and two going into the bye or potentially you're one in five, two and four. Like there's a lot of different outcomes that this game could spark. And I just, I mean, I don't feel like there's been a bigger game for the Vikings, an early season game for the Vikings than this one. And I know we've talked

about the last few weeks and those were the games where they had to right the ship before it like sunk. This one actually feels like that in terms of like the direction of the early season, because again, week seven they're off, and if things are not looking like, hey, this is a playoff team by week seven or one that could at least be a late season push or trend that way, then I think that you could see changes made. But I think also, too, that ride the momentum that you have. You don't want to lose to the Browns after this whole week of,

wow, Kirk cousins is the MVP of the league. And you know, everything's great. The offense is like super duper explosive and yards and points and, you know, things. And then it's like, Oh,

they are who they thought they were. And that is exactly the feeling that has happened so many times here within the last, how many years, really like three years and then plus like going to arizona missing the kick that was one that we sort of said okay you can bounce back i mean the opener the same thing like here you go cincinnati they're giving you an easy team which maybe looks a little less easy yeah i mean after thursday night football

but i mean jaguars yeah jaguars and the Bears, too. They beat. So like it's not exactly, you know, a ton of great wins for Cincinnati. But you could play that day that game all day long. It's like, well, they beat them. So they're better than them. And they beat, you know, whatever. And you'll just drive yourself crazy. But think about like go back to twenty eighteen going down to Green Bay in week two after they get a big win against San Francisco and how much energy that game had going into it. And they get behind, they come back, it's a crazy game. There's a bunch of missed kicks. And then they come home and play Buffalo. And it's just like, what's just happened? It's one of the biggest like upsets, you know, versus the Vegas line that we've seen

in the NFL in years. And then they go out to L.A. and it's, well, let's bounce back in this big game and national TV in L.A. It is a disappointing loss. Maybe Philadelphia 2018, Philadelphia 2019, for games that were really hyped up and were a ton of excitement building up to them. And then the Vikings came through. And it felt like last week was that. But I'm not convinced that that happening last week against Seattle means that it will happen again against Cleveland

it's just it made me think about how few games last year we got to have this feeling about and uh I mean that like that's what happens when you dig yourself in such an early season hole because you're playing catch up to get to the point where you're like, okay, we finally evened our own playing field. Now we can start getting excited for games. And now we can start saying, okay, that's the big one. That's the one you must win. Because if you're playing catch-up the whole season, like, you know, they were coming out of the bye last year when it's like, okay, nice win in Green Bay. Great job.

And then, you know, for the whole rest of the next few weeks, they're trying to just get back to 500. Right, to go to two and four. Who can get excited about that? Yeah, exactly. But get to 500 now, be two and two going into week five where I don't know if we were supposed to get these already, but the lines for week five have already come out. Typically that doesn't happen until the slate of games are over on Sunday but like they're already opening his eight-point favorites according to the Vegas line against Detroit which a little maybe a little surprising just because

Detroit played Baltimore in week three really hard in the second half and came back and it's you know Justin Tucker Justin Tucker like a 66 yard field goal is you know what can you do at that point but I don't think Detroit's that bad like yeah maybe I'll bite my word you know be eating my words after week four and and how they you know come out this week but I was a little surprised to see that but then again that just shows you okay the outside perceptions that you have all this momentum you're figuring it out right and that you can be a good team like you know play from ahead like it has got to be exhausting to constantly be like one game below 500 back at 500 one game below 500 back at 500 and then trying

just to get one game above and I guess that's what's interesting is it feels like from a lot of Vikings fans and the conversation around this team like the Seattle win was worth several wins like that that's how it felt in terms of like morale wise I think if they had probably because they lost the first two games by a combined four points right like that's got to be where the magnitude of the Seattle win and just kind of the feel of it comes into play. Exactly. So it feels like, well, this is who we really are. And that's why the lead up to this game and the hype up to this game is so interesting to me is that coming off of what happened last week, there seems to be a belief that this team is actually better than their record and that they

have an opportunity to beat one of the best teams in the NFL and then sort of take off from here. And of course, you were there in 2017 when they beat Chicago. And then that seemed to be this sort of slingshot win into the second half. I mean, I don't know whether momentum is real or not is hard to say, but I think that confidence is real and belief that you can win with Case Keenum, for example, was real. And that team gelling together and becoming a great defense and finding their identity as a running team with Case Keenum and so forth, all of that came together after. And what we've seen so far is sort of a disjointed team that has trouble at times on defense then comes up big on defense and then on the offensive side had its really poor moments to

open the season and then had a great game last week and but against the poor defense so now they play a good defense like I think this is one of those where we just have a great sense of where this 2021 season goes because of this game no I don't disagree I think that I mean they're playing a really good opponent this is a great early season test where it's not like you have to have all of these teams that might be fraudulent might not like I think Seattle I'm not saying the Seattle win was a bad it's going to be a bad win when you look back at it but I don't think Seattle is the same Seattle saying the Seattle win was a bad, it's going to be a bad win when you look back at it, but I don't think Seattle is the same Seattle that at least the perception of them coming into this season was.

But you'll know who the Vikings are after this game. I sometimes think it takes teams maybe like the first month of the season to figure out their true identity. Even if you're like, yeah, we're a running team, we're play actioning. Even though they're still figuring out under Clint Kubiak, what the identity of this offense is like, we know the core principles, but you're seeing it look different. It's like two different versions of the same thing from like last year's scheme

with Gary running things and Clint running things. It's just like stuff showing up in different places, play action showing up less, but in different places, same thing with like protection, stuff like that. So now we'll get to see, okay, you go against that defensive front, that pass rush. How do you protect your quarterback? Like does the offensive line that we think right now, Hey, they're pretty good. They've figured it out. Does it go back to being like, man, that was a train wreck when you actually go against a good pass rush? And yeah, they did in week two with Chandler Jones in Arizona, and they were pretty good with that.

But I think the conversation will flip if they don't perform, if the offensive line doesn't perform well against Cleveland. So it's like, yeah, you get to figure out, is your offensive line good? Is your defense finally figuring it out? Can they play a complete game where they had an okay start in Cincinnati, okay start against Arizona? Lull. Last week it was bad start for them, and then they picked it up. But how do you get there?

I think it's really by way of the offense. That's the biggest question for me that comes out of this game because it's the question for the rest of the season. Does the Vikings offense have to carry the defense again in 2021? Because they've been trying to avoid that this whole time. I also think about sustainability for your success. If you're going to have success from a week-to-week basis, an offense just gives you a better chance for that. We've seen even the best Vikings defenses just have their moments. I mean, even go back to 2016, they play Washington

and lose to Kirk cousins in that game because, uh, just, you know, Washington schemed up something good. I think that was Sean McVay. The 2018 defense is good, but they got smoked by Sean McVay in Los Angeles. Uh, Carolina beat the Vikings defense up pretty good in 2017. So there's always those games. But if you have the offense to match, like that's why you brought Kirk Cousins here is to have the offense to match when the defense isn't perfect. And that was very much the case in Seattle.

And then you gave your defense a chance to just make a few big stops. So, you know, I think that this team has that different about it that it appears there are at least elements of this offense that are sustainable over a full season, not, hey, well, if the other team has a big defensive tackle, you just lose the football game. Like that's been the case. But I also wonder about like the mentality of the team. They're talking very confidently and they're talking about their belief in cousins and cousins is swagger has now become a topic and so forth but you know each time they sort of build up the fan base here over the last couple of years there's always disappointment sneaking around the corner and I think of 2019 where they were

getting on a roll and then they go to Kansas City and play Matt Moore and they lose that game to Matt Moore and you know I mean ultimately it cost them a Moore and they lose that game to Matt Moore. And, you know, I mean, ultimately it cost them a chance to be in the race to win the division at the end of the year. The same thing with the end of the season where they played Green Bay. It was a big home game, Green Bay, all this. If you beat them, you got a chance to win the division. Disappointment right away.

So is that going to be the case here? And then we say, well say well okay you're kind of the same team as you've been or are you going to change that and say you're different you're a team that can actually step up against a great team at home with all the pressure on you that makes me think like what's it going to be for cousins this week is this the week where he sees ghosts because you know that's happened where where the buildup has been, man, you're playing great. You're playing with all this confidence.

And even he's kind of buying into the whole thing. I know he's saying, I'm the same guy every day. I try to be, never get too high, never get too low, whatever. But I do think he's hearing it, and he's like, yeah, OK, they believe in me. They believe in me. We've got this together. But is this going to be where it's a, I mean, it's not a primetime game,

so you don't have to worry about the bright lights and all of that. But it's a big game that has a lot of significance. Is this where – is this where, like, the inevitable or what feels like has been the inevitable under Cousins, where he can have a stretch, where he plays really great for, like, three, four weeks, and then does he throw three picks in the first half? Because it just kind of feels like, and I hate to be that person, it feels like that's coming, right?

Like, I mean, he's last 10 games, 13 touchdowns, zero interceptions in the first half alone. Like, at this point last year, he was, you know, a pick machine. He was throwing like one or two a game. And I just feel like that's, it's almost like that's leering, like lurking around the corner and you can't be entirely convinced that it's not going to happen, especially when you're going against a really good defense like this, that with all that's at stake, I mean, you've got to think about how many coaches on that side of the ball, you know, for the defense who have like gone against Kirk Cousins

in practice. I mean, Jeff Howard's a DB's coach I mean he was here for a lot like the entirety of Cousins career in Minnesota like you don't think he's going to be trying to pull out stops and like exactly who the quarterback he's going against like that's kind of the perfect storm the way that this matchup is set up to figure out okay is this Kirk Cousins talk because you know that like there's going to be like the big thing I think with Vikings fans right now they're the people who are like we told we're telling you it's not Kirk's fault this whole time we've been telling you how great he is and then there's like the people on the other side like the band people are like now getting on the bandwagon those are the loud ones who if he if he stumbles in this game they're going to jump off and be like told you so

yeah and that just that that feel like that is the first thing that's going to happen if they lose this game and if he has a poor performance. But, I mean, I think there is something to be said about that confidence, like that stuff, whether you believe in momentum or not. You should believe in the confidence that the offense is playing with right now because that's the reason that they're in games, the reason they're winning games. And the issue with bad games, which do happen to almost every quarterback,

is with Cousins right now, they're in such a position, having lost those first two games, even though it's not his fault. But how many times has that been said just over the three-year span? That's where I think that a lot of people are sort of tired of that. Like, well, yeah, I mean, that's true. Tom Compton wasn't good in this game, but also like, that's not really the point. Like, like I think there's almost a separation of people who make it entirely about cousins. Like everything is about him with the entire franchise all the time versus the broader picture of signing Cousins and having

him as your quarterback and his price tag and what it means to how good you can be and all those things. And if they have hit on some draft picks here in Ole Udo and KJ Osborne and Ezra Cleveland over the last couple of years, this sort of strengthens what is around Cousins, which has always been the determining factor. And so it's always, I think, a bigger picture of it has not worked overall. Like you have not been a successful franchise over the last three years. That doesn't mean that he can't play well and have enough support to be a successful team this year. I guess there's sort of a separation there of some people think

because he's played mostly well that it's been a success but that's like they don't what is it they don't hang banners for your quarterback exactly like that's not what happens and so but also there's always a razor's edge with him as he that's the word he used but it's always a razor's edge with him where it's like it he has to play really well for them to win most of the time when the defense is not perfect and it hasn't been over the last couple of years. And with a game like this, that's where you go, OK, if you can play really well and drive victories on a week to week basis, that will change how people feel about this whole thing. Like, I think that he's earned the skepticism of the people who are skeptical about this start it is three games last uh 2019 he had a four game stretch where all of his pff grades were over 80 one player of the month all that stuff and then the kansas city game happened

and it wasn't good and they lost and so they don't have that same stretch too of when was that kansas city game early november that was giant eagles detroit washington they don't the worst team of when was that Kansas City game? Early November? That was Giants, Eagles, Detroit, Washington. Four of the worst teams in the league. The thing is, they do not have that same sort of like, give me October is what I'll call it, of like the NFC East nonsense and Detroit. I mean, they've got Detroit. They've got Carolina, and Carolina might actually be okay.

I think their defense is decent. Their defense is decent, but they lost J.C. Horn, and now they've got like new cornerbacks. And, you know, what do they look like six weeks into the season when the Vikings play them versus the three weeks when they beat up on Houston, the Jets, and they caught the Saints slipping? Isn't that why this is so important? Yes, that's because the goalpost moves at different points of the season

based on, like, how your opponents are playing, too. I think that's what you have to factor in. So it's like get the wins where you can, but also get your statement wins. Don't think like, okay, well, we didn't beat, you know, we didn't beat Cleveland. It's okay because we got all these other, like, wins to, like, make up for it. No.

Like, this is a chance to establish your dominance early. Establish that you are a good team and that Kirk can sustain this thing and that it's not like the predictable leveling off that it typically has been when you come when you have like you know some some weaker opponents non-playoff opponents that you end up beating up on and then you get to a good one and you and you can't come through on it right uh and that has been so much the story of this team since he arrived and so i think it's always fair to say like that's the reality is that there's always around the corner a disappointing performance a game that's uh really meaningful

to the which direction their season goes and you don't get the play that you paid for or that you hoped for from him on a consistent basis the moments you hired him right for the for these moments these games right and that's that's exactly it like you didn't hire him for the end of season quarterback rating what you hired him for was to win games against good teams to be a real contender so that's why it's like do it here against Cleveland now interestingly so I I will look at betting stuff not to bet because I am uh terrible at I have things like that yeah I don't understand gambling very well and I just feel like I don't want to lose all of my money um and I hate and I hate to lose too like even playing on the chess app if I lose to a bot I'm upset but I look at

PFF and their win probability for these games they have in terms of win probability Cleveland 59.8 chance to win which is pretty high like they are giving Cleveland a lot of credit here do you think that we're not giving Cleveland enough respect or to to be saying that the Vikings should win this game Cleveland is favored on the road which you know doesn't always happen and they didn't open up that way the Vikings opened up is like barely one point favorites at home now it's shifted ESPN's FBI has it's a little bit closer they think it's going to be a you know a very close game because Cleveland like Caesars has them as two-point favorites our FBI has Minnesota by like 0.5 so like 51 chance like win probability so I think it will be a very close

game I actually my picks are out now. I picked Cleveland to win 24-20. Does that mean that I don't think the Vikings can win? No. I really do think that they will win. I do think that they can win. But I think Cleveland has a better defense top to bottom. You look at that pass rush.

That in itself, you better not be trying to go five straight up with your offensive line. This has got to be a big weekend for your tight ends in terms of pass blocking. But beyond that, I think the back end of their defense has it figured out a lot more than Minnesota's. And when you look at the injury report and see Bashaud Breland was out with an illness, Mackenzie Alexander is MIA with a personal reason.

That's been the weak spot for them the last few weeks. Baker Mayfield is a different type of quarterback. I don't think you're going to be seeing these plays that get behind the last line of your defense the way that that touchdown did with Seattle in the big 15-20 yard plays that they gave up early on in the 2021 season. But I still think that Cleveland holds the edge defensively on this team. So can your, like what they said last week, can your offense be your best defense?

Like can Kirk and the rest of that group stay out there for 23 minutes in the second half to try to, you know, ride them thin and, you know, hold on and win the game I think that's why they think that this game is going to be as close as it is and so I'm looking at the just team rankings from PFF and where they sort of combine a bunch of factors and say how good you are the Vikings are 10th on offense and 18th on defense which I think is very fair yeah I think that they performed well last week on offense, but against Arizona, there were some potholes that they hit in the second half and against

Cincinnati. Obviously they really struggled in the first half of that game. So I think 10th is totally fair. It's not like they've been start to finish this unbelievable juggernaut, like the 98 Rams or something or a 99 Rams, 98 Vikings defense. 18th 99 Rams, 98 Vikings. Defense 18th is totally fair to me. They have Cleveland as second offense and fifth defense.

Our rankings have them. I mean, they basically, I think they're going off like points and yards. Like they're two top 10 offenses for sure. I think the Vikings are more explosive on offense. Is that fair? Do you think that? I don't know. I don't know. I mean, points and yards are different from how PFF is doing sure PFF is doing it more by their performance like their grades and stuff and the way that they use their

running backs is probably more explosive than Minnesota's but I think Minnesota's passing game can be more explosive off of the play action because I mean Cleveland is for as much as we like to like claim that these offenses are pretty much the same they're not using play action very much in Cleveland not nearly as much as like the percentage wise uh versus when like Baker's in shotgun not using or not using play action anything like that but I think that they can string together Vikings can string together a much more explosive passing attack and this would be the week to whip out a lot more boots, move Kirk, change the launch points, do what you have to do to be able to orchestrate some of that, roll him away from pressure,

because you know they're going to pressure him. Like Miles Garrett basically made his defensive player of the year candidate clip last week. That was against a very bad Chicago offense that had one net passing yard I don't think it's going to be the same for Minnesota but I guess we'll um you know to me I guess it's just I say all that to say I think Cleveland's defense will have like the last laugh in in this one yeah I mean I would uh pick Cleveland as well maybe by a touchdown is the the direction I would go with it uh because i do think that

they're a legitimate super bowl contender and it's weird to say that because i mean they were they're like narrowly a player a couple plays away from three and oh and you know the punter and all that nonsense thinking that he's like uh tyreek oh right yeah you know like trying to run in week one they're a very very good team in a wide open AFC North. And I think that they're still a very, very good team after these first few weeks, if not better than what I thought they were coming into the season. And now that you get Odell Beckham back, he's been back for a week. Like, what does that look like? The concern for me would be that, like you said, you make a great point that the best defense is an offense that stays on the field but Cleveland averages 5.1 yards per carry on the ground and they are I believe let me sort this real quick yeah they are second in the NFL in rushing the only team that's higher has

Lamar Jackson on it so this Vikings defense has been very vulnerable to the run over the last three games here and really I, for a while now. But last year they had, you know, Jaleel Johnson playing. But even with bringing in Tomlinson, bringing in Pierce, they've still had this vulnerability that I'm not sure gets resolved. I think the only reason that Seattle didn't run well in the second half is they were playing from behind. So they were trying to pass all the time.

But Cleveland is exactly the same overall philosophy of getting ahead and then sucking the air out of the ball and making sure you stay on the sideline. And I think that they'll be able to do it in this game. And when you look at their offensive production overall, I mean, they're scoring on half of their drives. That's third in the league in terms of yards per play, their seventh in the NFL and yards per play. And that's with rushing quite a bit yards per pass attempt. They seventh in the NFL in yards per play, and that's with rushing quite a bit. Yards per pass attempt, they're fifth. They have been really explosive in the run game especially

with lots of breaking off big runs. And so I just feel like unless the Vikings defense flips a switch and all of a sudden everybody gets it, and like you said, there's some real question marks about who's going to play in the secondary. I just have a tough time thinking that they'll have enough opportunity for the offense to steamroll. And I think that Kevin Stefanski does make a difference to me because he knows every strength and weakness of Kirk Cousins. And I would not say that necessarily for Zimmer and Baker Mayfield. Like this is the first time they're, they're playing each other.

And Stefanski should understand fully what Mike Zimmer is going to do on defense. So I'm giving them the slight edge. But I also think if we're wrong and they win, then it changes the conversation about this team in a way that we haven't been able to talk about them in a long time. Yeah, they're legitimate at that point. And you can say, okay,

maybe they were two plays away. You can, you can validate the, we were a couple of plays away from being two and oh thing if they win this game. Right. Yep. I totally agree.

So, um, by the way, you did a cool story on Kevin Stefanski. Thanks. Um, and you have a story inside a story yeah involving Jared Allen and I would like you to tell that it was a fun story to report my colleague Jake Trotter who

covers the Browns for ESPN we got together in August and we're like what can we do you know that's not you know the boring he's coming back what are they gonna say and we were like let's find like really fun anecdotes about like who because we we've collabed on stuff before like when Kevin got hired there and I've written a lot about his come up and it's just the one question I get still all these like you know all these years later after he was hired from like all the radio hits I did in Cleveland this week was about how man that's really strange for a person to be in one place for 14 seasons. And, you know, in, in talking with players this week, you know, I did a one-on-one with CJ Hamm and we talked about that very thing. Cause he was, you know,

CJ credits Kevin Stefanski for the reason that he's on the Vikings because he saw him at a pro day at Minnesota. Um. I guess he came over, he came down from Augustana and Kevin was the running backs coach. And, you know, he got a tryout to come to Vikings rookie camp from that. And it was pretty much because Kevin's on and like gave his name to the personnel department. So, yeah, I mean, I think there's a lot of that type of stuff, but, you know, personality wise, when we covered Kevin Stefanski you didn't get to see a lot more than what you got at the podium and then you hear all these things behind the scenes of man he's got a real dry wit like real good sense of humor we'll play clips from Chappelle's

show on Fridays during meetings and it's like huh I did not know that because we never saw that version of him so I like was like I going to find out more about this humor. I'm going to find out more about who he is and the personality. So I got wind of something a few years ago that Kevin, when he was Brad Childress' assistant, was in charge of the rookie showcase, but then the talent show at training camp every year in Mankato. So in 2008 was Jared Allen's first season here. He was barely here because he got traded in April and then goes to training camp. Well, they all have to like, you know, they all did skits and stuff.

And Jared, his skit was on Childress. And he's always late to meetings. He's, you know, kind of this gruff guy. And he was also making fun of Kevin Stefanski for being the gopher, you know, go for this, go for that, like a job where you're basically like cleaning up after somebody. And the way he phrased it to me was hilarious because I was trying to like be like, all right, well, what exactly did you do to impersonate Kevin Stefanski? And he's like, I'll just say this.

I made Kevin wear a lot of different outfits in my impersonation of him. And I was like, okay. I don't know where we're going with this, but I'm intrigued. And so he films this skit of basically just kind of mocking the whole situation, poking fun at Kevin for being, having to keep Brad in line and all this stuff.

Well, Kevin gets word of it, and he was like, you're going to make fun of me? I'll show you, and records a video skit of his own that's played back at the talent show. And so he breaks into Jared Allen's room at training camp and kind of takes people on a tour of the room, being like, why are there boy band posters all over the wall in here? And then I guess deadpans to the camera, of the room being like why are there boy band posters all over the wall in here and then like

i guess like deadpans to the camera and he says you know you want to make fun of me that's great blah blah blah payback's a b and like pretends to take jared allen's toothbrush and put it like in really not so fun places on the human body is how that was phrased to me from Jared Allen and then they play this thing at the at the at the talent show and everyone's going nuts including Jared Allen he thought it was incredible because you know you guys don't know each other yet like you're a couple months in and I think some people who don't have as thick skin or can dish it out and you know take it like Kevin Stavanski might have gotten offended at something like that. But Kevin got word of it and was like, I'll show you.

I'm good for some one-up-ism. And he's like, that was the icebreaker. We became friends after that. You don't hear stuff about NFL head coaches and their personalities, like the way that we've been able to kind of see this exterior with Kevin Stefanski, where he is a CEO as a head coach, and he's very polished and incredibly smart in the Ivy League background, the whole thing. To hear little bits and pieces of cracking away that armor was really cool. I was really thankful I got to report that story. Yeah, that's great.

And everything that I've heard from everyone around Kevin Stefanski talks about the way that he relates to people. And that can be one of them. I mean, even within our media room, we have a lot of humorous ways that we relate to each other and build friendships. And I think that that is the most underrated aspect of football is you're around everybody for so long and it's so difficult and it's so tense and it can be so frustrating and everybody's competitive and everything else. If you don't build a bond, I think we've seen this before. And this is why Mike Zimmer's talking about Kirk Cousins relating to his teammates and getting to know them better and why that's important. Because then it's very easy if you don't care about that other person

to just point fingers when things go wrong or just get frustrated with each other and not work through your differences. So even something small like that that is just funny and sort of showing that Kevin's a real clever and funny guy. But I think stuff like that immediately sort of endears you to the people around you, which is really important for a coach. And you got to think too,

14 seasons, he survived three staffs. That doesn't happen in the NFL. Like you don't just like get to stay around because it's easier to keep somebody there. Like they'll end up, you know, coaches come in,

they fire everybody. They bring in their own people. Kevin survived. He was brought in by Brad Childress he survived that firing he was kept around for Leslie Frazier kept around for the Zimmer era all the different offensive coordinators that have come in here last few years Kevin was a part of you know what was going on behind the scenes and he was still kept around like he's he knew this team and I think just the institutional knowledge of not just the offense and the scheme and all of that but the players themselves like what Dalvin Cook said of like he let us be us think about what Kevin walked into the first week on the job in Cleveland was that Odell Beckham slapping the security guard on the

ass that's right the Superdome during the LSU National Championship. A lot of coaches, I think, would be like, oh, geez, what did I get myself into? He has celebrities on his team, legitimate celebrities and superstars that are getting in GQ and national ads on TV. I see Baker Mayfield on that progressive commercial every day. He's got personalities. And for somebody who, on the outside, it looks like, man, Kevin's kind of dry.

How is he going to relate to his players? The way that Dalvin Cook talked about Kevin Stefanski, that was a glowing review. And that was authentic and genuine. And I think a lot of players have that same sort of belief and feel about Kevin Stefanski. But he's also no-nonsense too. Like remember, you know, Odell Beckham. Am I going to play? Am I not going to play? Like, blah, blah, blah.

Kevin Stefanski, that Wednesday, he's out. Handled it right then and there, no games. And I can appreciate that about him, the way he handles injuries, the way that he handles those egos, because he's got a lot of them on his team. Oh, for sure. And I think that what you're seeing from Clint Kubiak is a lot of the same signs with Kevin Stefanski.

And part of that goes along with not being a big salesman at the podium. Sure. We've certainly noticed that about Clint Kubiak. But I think they have a lot of similar personality traits. And sort of being even keeled that way, I think is a very positive trait. Um, I saw urban Meyer this morning already sort of setting himself up to claim that he's having, um, health issues to walk away from. He didn't look great at the podium last night. I saw that press conference. Well, you know, I mean, when you sort of sell your way to a bunch of five-star

recruits or do whatever it takes in Florida to set yourself up, um, for Ohio state. And then, you know, it all comes crashing down. That doesn't sound like X's and O's scheme, like the NFL. So I guess we're finding that out with, uh, with urban Meyer, but anyway, that's a different conversation. So, uh, great stuff, Courtney, thank you for that. And people should go to ESPN.com and find your story about Kevin Stefanski, which is really good stuff. And we will talk again soon. And there will have been another football game.

And I'm excited for it. This is a big one. Football.