Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - ESPN's Courtney Cronin talks about how crazy things get if the Lions beat the Vikings

Episode Date: October 7, 2021

ESPN's Courtney Cornin talks about how some Vikings fans seem to want the Vikings to lose to the Lions in order to spark a rebuild. Also she talks about Dalvin Cook's injury and first guessing that it would be a problem this year. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to another episode of Purple Insider, Matthew Collar and ESPN's Courtney Cronin inside TCO Performance Center. Courtney, we've said a lot leading up to our conversation here and where we are recording this on Thursday about everything that went wrong against the Cleveland Browns and how this Detroit Lions game gives them an opportunity to get a win here and make Carolina a big game. Um, how are you feeling about this? Because there's a little part of me, just the small part in the back of the head that says, remember Atlanta, remember Buffalo and all the games that we decided that there was a hundred percent chance the Vikings would win. And there was no chance that they would let anybody down. I feel like I'm at 98% that the Vikings are going to win this game, but there's

also that small part of me that remembers that. And just, I have all week continued to imagine what happens if they don't win this football game. I think that's the normal scenario to put your mind through considering what a one and four start would look like for this team which could very well become one and five considering you know Carolina just beefed up at secondary that's a team that I don't know if you can say a team that's in it to win it but a team that at least is attempting to with you know getting you know another cornerback back there after you know they lose JC Horn with the foot injury and then they end up going to get Stephon Gilmore. So, I mean, I don't know. We'll see what that defense looks like. I'm not necessarily giving them a dub right now, but let's, you know, you kind of have

to let your brain trend in the direction of, well, if this is one in four and next week after that's one in five, what does that mean for the Vikings at the bye week and earlier in the week I would tell you it's not a cinch to say that they were going that they are going to beat Detroit but I look at that injury report Frank Ragnall goes to IR, Panay Sewell, Anthony Lynn their offensive coordinator said they're planning to be without him on Sunday because he's got an injury to his ankle well there's two of your offensive linemen that are gone, and this pass rush, for all the issues with this defense, you know, the secondary's still giving up some pretty big plays. The run defense, still a problem. The pass rush has been pretty good. Granted, it's only coming from a couple places like Daniil Hunter and, you know, Dalvin Tomlinson got his first sack last week. Michael Pierce has two, but he's probably not playing this week

because of the elbow injury. And Everson Griffin obviously is playing well. That's probably going to bode really not so good for Detroit. I've gotten the vibe that there are a very large or maybe growing contingent of people who wouldn't mind it. If they lost. Because it would be the perfect way to sort of end any thought that this was going anywhere. Delays.

It would speed up the inevitable of what it feels like is going to happen with this season. Because I agree with you because let's say they're two and four um headed into the bye week like split between Carolina and Detroit you'll have some people in this team when they talk to us at the bye and say hey we were two and four last year we made a push blah blah blah if it wasn't for that darn Chicago game, then, you know, we could have been in the playoffs. That's history repeating itself. And I think that there's a section of this fan base who just says, you know, throw the towel in now, because to go through that last year where they, you know, put themselves in such a bad hole in the early season where they're celebrating a win

against Green Bay right out of the bye and you're still two and four like that's not a fun spot to be in you're still a losing team so I totally could understand the fans who are like let's just get it over with now and you know kind of hope that there are some changes because if you lose to Detroit if we're talking about the confidence meter and you know the odds of if Mike Zimmer's going to get fired or not at that point, I don't know. I feel like a loss to a winless Detroit team, a team that you have a 7-0 record against.

You've won seven straight games over the Lions by nearly 12 points per game. If you lose to them this week, that is a terrible look. And you have to wonder about the future of your franchise if you're losing to a Detroit team like that who's undermanned yeah I think that it would just ignite the change that a lot of people wants now I know that there's another side to that of another portion of the fan base who maybe has tickets to the game and wants to see a win and also just never wants to see their team lose no matter what. And of course, um, that's, uh, respectable that you would want them to turn

around this season and say, Hey, it's not over yet. It's only been a couple of games and they've been close games. And so I have respect for that opinion, but I'm more, uh, interested in the other one because when a fan base sort of gets backed into a place where they're going you know if we lost to Detroit things could get pretty interesting here that I mean that's kind of a dark place to be and so I'm gonna make a movie comparison here and you are allowed to laugh at me for this but the wife and I will watch bad movies on purpose sometimes so we were watching a movie called he's Just Not That Into You or He's Not That. You've heard of it? I've heard of it. I've never seen it, but it's like a 90s

rom-com thing, right? Yeah, or whatever, early 2000s. So Bradley Cooper's in this and Bradley Cooper's kind of a dirtbag. So he's cheating on his wife and everything and he's telling her that he's not cheating and then he finally reveals it, but they want to try to work things out. So things are very much on the rocks with bradley cooper and his wife and he had told his wife that he had stopped smoking and then she's doing some cleaning and a bunch of cigarettes fall out of his jacket or whatever and she goes ballistic she smashes the mirror she throws all of his stuff out of the house like that's the the final step was that he wasn't telling the truth about that. Like this Lions game, this would be the final step. This would be for, I think the owners

and for the fans, this would be sort of it. If you told us that you're actually good and it turns out that cigarettes fall out of your jacket and you're not good and you lose to the Detroit Lions, there is no case for you being good. There's no argument. There's no discussion of your jacket and you're not good and you lose to the Detroit lions, there is no case for you being good. There's no argument. There's, there's no discussion of your good at one and four with the loss against the lines. And it sort of has a, uh, almost a finality to it because you can't go one and four and make the playoffs. It's just not going to happen. So there is that part of it that you can't help going down that road and being like, well, I mean, then what happens? And then there's, there's, it just opens so many doors for where this franchise could go,

where if they beat the hell out of the lions and then they, you know, maybe even beat Carolina, then it's sort of like, okay, well, I guess we'll see if the season, right. If it goes the same way, we expected it to go at the start in just a different order. Yeah, I don't think that you see any changes. If they go three and three and it's the bye week and depending upon where the rest of the NFC North is, I assume they'd still be very much in it because I don't have any confidence in Chicago to get this thing right and certainly don't with Detroit. But it almost gives you a chance for that clean slate if they do lose to Detroit to not only speed up the inevitable, but to start already rebuilding. Because when we think about what happened last year when they were in this soft rebuild, didn't want to fully admit it, but all of their moves admitted it for them and did all the talking for them. It's like, did we just waste two years of where we could have been had we actually conceded to where we should have been in the 2020 season?

So, you know, there's not much more, though, you can do because look at the rest of your schedule. You could go 2-8. If you're the Vikings, you could go 2-8 over your next 10 games, and that's not a good spot to be in. That's not a playoff team whatsoever, but it still doesn't feel like this team's a playoff team. I think the hardest thing, even for people I talk to from Cleveland coming out of the game, is it's hard to tell whether the Vikings are what they are right now. Are they actually a good team? We're hearing them shine their own boots and say, yeah, we are a good team.

Couple of plays, X, Y, Z, blah, blah, blah. I think that league-wide, coaches and personnel and players are trying to figure out, what are the Minnesota Vikings? Because you can't put your finger on it. If they lose to Detroit, you can easily say not a good football team. It's all, you know, it all comes to a head and it's been a farce. And there's just so many examples of other teams who lose a bunch of close games at the beginning of the year and have this same refrain of, no, no, there was just the close games. That's the

problem. But the reality of the NFL is that you win close games if you're good. Like over a long period of time, I understand the statistical regression thing. And if a team one year wins all close games, then the next year they probably won't win as many. And that went six out of seven. The one in Carolina was the only one they didn't win in one score games. And that includes the Minneapolis Miracle. And what do we think about that team? That team was good. And that team had a trump card when they were in those types of games. And that was their defense. That was Xavier Rhodes being a shutdown corner. That was peak Everson Griffin. Who's playing like a pro bowler and Daniil Hunter and Linval Joseph, who played the best football I've ever seen out of a nose tackle ever. I mean, just the most dominant player on the field. And then when you start to compare a team that took a two and two start and had a

special season to what you have here it's like well you know you got irv smith hurt so you're missing a weapon there you have now michael pierce hurt and this is what i wanted to get into with um delvin cook sure he's banged up and you know you sort of have these things going wrong and there's always been the issue of pass rushes are able to just take advantage of Kirk Cousins and so forth. And it's just very, it's very hard to see that. It's very hard to see you magically becoming great in those close games when that's been a staple of the last three years that you really haven't been. And you weren't last year either in particular, like that they didn't just close out

these one score games unless they were against Jacksonville and Carolina. And that's the part of it that becomes hard to believe and hard to buy into with. No, we're good. We'll go on a run. Andre Patterson brought up the 1999 Vikings the other day in terms of a team that went two and four and then went on a run. Who did they have at receiver? Randy Moss, Chris Carter, Jeff George came in and played great, but they had much more talent than

this football team. I mean, they were just coming off of a 15 to one season the year before this team is coming off a seven and nine season. Your priors matter to what you've done recently in terms of trying to project this out. So just circling back, that's why if they were to lose, then, then we sort of know what to do with them like you said we know how to talk about them if they lose if they win it's a week of oh well yeah it's the lions right you should have won that game but it then becomes well are they going to beat carolina if they don't beat carolina they're two and four would ownership still consider hey it feels like it's a lost season or hey we they need to do something coming out of the buy so they can actually try to get back in this

thing would they consider making changes there if they still don't believe what they're the bill of goods they're being sold from you know the head coach we haven't heard from the general manager won't until the buy week but depending on what he says. Like, you know, there's – in my mind, it just feels like you delay the inevitable if you know what you're going to do at the end of the year. Like, I remember Jason Lock and Fora reported, you know, a couple weeks ago that, you know, within this extension and all of that, that Mike Zimmer was given a directive from ownership, like, playoffs are bust.

And, yeah, that makes sense, right? Because he's never had a season back-to-back years where he has not made the playoffs. So if that's the case, and it's looking like, yeah, a really, really tough stretch coming out of the bye. You've got Baltimore. You've got Dallas. You've got Los Angeles Chargers, who are red hot. Green Bay, back to the Bay to go play San Francisco.

Like that's tough. So why continue to put yourselves through this when you know that you could just start the rebuild now? So yeah, it is why this game, while it feels kind of inconsequential because it is Detroit and, you know, Kirk Cousins is 15 and one touchdown interception ratio and six wins over Detroit since he got to Minnesota like I mentioned before they've won seven straight um you know they're missing a lot of pieces Romeo Acquara is not playing like they should win but if they don't then I think you really have to take a good hard look and say how much longer do we want to keep playing the charade out because you know the answer you just are not you're being you know too conservative and not actually pulling the trigger on making

those changes so is there a point though to and i don't mean to be leading on this like is there a point to firing someone in the middle of the season like does it do you any good um i don't know if it does or rather just let it play out all the way. Because you know, it'd be a losing season probably regardless. I mean, the only I understand your point. If you're going to like do it at the end of the year, like why in your team's not very good. Like, you know, I guess the only it could give you an audition for, let's say, an Andre Patterson. Let's say he seems like the most logical fit to become this interim head coach,

would you want to keep him in that position and remove the interim tag? That would be your chance. I don't know. There's probably no point to doing that. I feel like they want to go offense, like an offensive-minded coach and figure out how that's going to work. So, yeah, you could understand just waiting it out, but my mom and I were talking about this on the way home from the game the

other night. She was just like, yeah, wow, what a bad loss to Cleveland. I mean, and, you know, what happens next? And I was like, yeah, you know, this thing probably plays out. Like, we'll see what happens with Detroit. It kind of feels like the linchpin at this point. And she's like, wow, well, well you know won't ownership at some point like people just stop coming to games stop buying tickets like won't that's the only thing that's going to wake them up and get their attention newsflash like I grew up in Chicago the Cubs sucked for a big portion of my life people still went to games the state the stadium still sold out the Wilfs are not going to maybe the pressure of, oh, my God,

we have to make changes, otherwise we're going to lose season ticket holders and lose $60,000 on a sellout game, because fans are going to still keep going to games. You can blame the fan base for the reason that a lot of this has been perpetuated, I think, and I don't think that that's me going way out in left field. I think that's a fact, because they're not losing money on their losing team.

They haven't been. So I don't really know. You know, we talk about firing a coach in the middle of the season. It's not going to all of a sudden like spike up the season ticket holders and everything else. That stuff's been consistent. It's going to stay consistent. I just – I think it's in terms of the optics of why you do it

and trying to be like, hey, we realize that this can't continue to go on the way it is, so they need to make changes now. Otherwise, it looks like they're just complicit in the mediocrity. And I think that that is what you can say for sure. If they lose a couple more games, we're at the bye, it's one in five again, then you can say they're complicit and just not really caring about more than being mediocre. The other thing that I've always gotten the sense of that is important to them is relevance. One hundred bajillion percent.

You love my analogy. They want to be at the cool kids lunch table. They don't necessarily like they're among the popular girls, but they know like, oh, we'll never be Regina George. We'll never be the queen bee, but that's okay because we're in the mix in the cool kids table. We're always getting invited to like, to be in the homecoming group,

but we're not going to be homecoming queen. I guess the way I might think of it is no, no, I don't really fully understand blackjack. So I'm sorry to blackjack players that this might be wrong, but you'll get what I'm saying. The Vikings are always at a 16, and there have been opportunities to just say, hit me and ask for another card. And it's possible that it's a queen and you go bust, But there's also a possibility it's a five and you hit 21. That would have been the tear it all down. Don't resign.

Cousins go that direction. But instead that they've stayed at 16 and just I'm going to stay. And the odds of you winning at 16 are not particularly high, but they've but you're in the game. Like, but you feel like you've got a chance because you're at 16 and you're like, well, I'm close. I think losing to the Lions would mean that you busted. And you busted either way. Scared money don't make money.

That's like the number one thing here where it takes a lot of risk and it takes a lot of guts to go be a Super Bowl contending team, to make the moves, to pull off the moves, to pull off some of the controversial moves, which would have been, I realize we're going on revisionist history here, but it's going to help with our game that we're going to play, so I'm kind of excited. That would have been, hey, Mike Zimmer,

you just won us a playoff game in New Orleans. We're moving on from you and sticking with Kevin Stefanski. That's the type of move that that is but staying at 16 not what is it double down isn't that a blackjack thing too that's where I don't understand fully how it works they won't double down they won't they or maybe they doubled down on the wrong thing like so to speak but it's very clear neither one of us understand I'm not good at card games but well my thought is that when you're at 16 you have a chance to win but it's not a high chance

sure and that's where they've existed for a while since 2017 like you have a chance to win with all this but it's not high uh and if you want the high chance you have to also risk going bust and to your point i want to go through some of the teams that are most competitive right now in the league and just think about some of the risks they had to take the Kansas city chiefs had a franchise quarterback and Alex Smith and drafted Patrick Mahomes anyway. Uh, the Buffalo bills, did they trade up for Josh Allen or they drafted Josh Allen knowing that there was a huge risk with him because of his college statistics and they drafted him anyway. And they just went for it uh justin herbert was not the highest ranked prospect uh was he the third quarterback taken that year or second quarterback

taken third because 201 yeah went to miami like that's a conversation that makes my head spin that they literally could have had him but whatever but they had to pick not the first or the second but they had to pick a quarterback uh to replace philip rivers and they decided to pick not the first or the second, but they had to pick quarterback to replace Philip Rivers. And they decided to do that with Justin Herbert instead of sort of riding that out as far into the sunset. They had to decide we are moving on from Philip Rivers, even though he had played OK and he was the safe guy and he was going to keep you in it. And he had been in the playoffs. The Tennessee Titans won a playoff game and then they fired their coach and then they hired Mike Vrabel and they're not the best team in the league right now, but they've been very competitive the last couple of years and on the doorstep. So oftentimes like that is what it takes. And sometimes Tom Brady drops in your lap. Um, but

oftentimes we've seen that this gets rewarded by taking risks, and then other times it doesn't. The New York Giants have not been rewarded for taking some of the risks, but they also hired a terrible coach and drafted a running back second overall. Yeah, those are not good risks, though. But that can happen, though. You hire a coach that blows up in your face. And a GM who doesn't know what the hell he's doing.

Right, and you draft a quarterback who's bad. These things happen. But think about the New York Jets right now. The New York Jets hired the worst coach in the universe. Adam Gase, yeah. And a couple years later, they have, I think, a competent coach and a very exciting young quarterback. Like, well, these things don't ruin your franchise forever.

They usually put you in position to try again if it blows up. And that's sort of the point of it. And that's where it can be called, I think, exciting for the fan base of the idea that we finally admit it's not good if they lose to the Lions. Do you think the fear from ownership or anybody who's making a decision on pulling the plug, if they decide, like, okay, I lost to Detroit. Or just let's say at the bye things look, like, just not so good. Do you think the risk is, man, we already wasted two years.

This rebuild is going to take so much longer now. It's like they're scared to do it because of how much time they've already wasted. Do you feel that that plays into it? Because I kind of do. It feels like okay well shoot we knew we should have done this at the end of the 19 season uh we it's almost like you're you know like what i used to tell my mom like coming up from the basement five more minutes

five more minutes even though i knew i had to go to bed like i want to keep playing the game five more minutes five more minutes eventually i'm gonna have to go upstairs but it just kind of feels that they're doing that just to keep somehow living in whatever this space is where they think this is okay. Doesn't it kind of feel like that? It does. And I think it's a myth. I think the, you'll be in the basement for five years plus is like an old thing that used to happen. And if you draft a bad quarterback, you usually know pretty quickly, like Miami should know right now too Tua's not good enough. How about this? Good example.

Arizona goes to the very bottom of the NFL after being a really good franchise for years. They had Bruce Arians. They had Kurt Warner. They have Larry Fitzgerald. They went to a Super Bowl. And then they're just down. And so they draft Josh Rosen. And it immediately just goes bust.

The guy is horrible. So what do they do the next year? They draft Kyler Murray two years later, they're four and out. I mean, it doesn't have to be that way. I, I totally agree with what you're saying that there is always this fear of gosh, if we're, if we're bad, then we're going to be bad for a really long time. And what if we don't dig out of it? And there are examples examples of that but if you are a competent franchise which i believe the vikings to be from their ownership i believe that they run a very functional franchise uh you shouldn't have to be down that long i mean even san francisco they draft uh nick bosa and then they spend some money and they hit on some picks and they're back

and then they're a competitive team like that can happen for you so yeah no I don't disagree and I know it kind of feels like all right well we just put cart before the horse like let them play the game first in Detroit but you have to have these conversations because you should beat Detroit but it's kind of like a meaningless is I don't know if I want to say meaningless but it's it's empty calories beating Detroit like yeah great what is that that doesn't tell you that still doesn't tell us what this team is we're at a point where we're not going to know who they are if I mean if they win this game we're not going to still know who they are if they beat Carolina maybe but I'm like I gotta know what Carolina does first this weekend because they've revamped parts of their defense Christian McCaffrey may play which I think is absolutely

stupid um keep him out at least until the Vikings game the guys got a hamstring injury what are you doing idiot football teams um and they're running backs that are injured yeah and that'll be a nice little parlay segue into the Dalvin Cook thing we're going to talk about. But no, I mean, like, I don't know what they are. And that frustrates me covering them because we talk about the race to 500. It's an exhausting place to be in when you're like sub 500 right at 500, sub 500 right at 500. Because you don't know who you are unless you just want to say we're a bad football team struggling to stay alive and I feel like they could be a very good football team but even the glimpses and signs that we've seen of it are not enough for me to say yeah they are a good football

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Okay. You've really piqued my interest on this question about 500. So this year, of course they have spent my interest on this question about 500. So this year, of course, they have spent zero out of four weeks above 500. Let me look, and I'm going to do this live and slowly. Last year, they spent zero weeks above 500. Okay. So we are now at 20 weeks. 16 plus four, yeah. Right, that they are below 500. Let's go back to 2019.

So they were above 500 for all of 2019 except for week 4 they were 2-2. And they were 1-1. So they spent all of 2019 above 500. Okay. And then we go back to 2018. And we have, let's see, they were 500, 2-2-1, and then above 500 until the end of the season there. So, but barely, but barely. 5-3-1, 5-4-1, 6-4-1, 6-5-1, 6-6-1, right? The chase, the back and forth.

Right. The point that you're making, I'm just saying, is exactly right. I mean, there's been so many weeks where you are, and if I spent more time with it, I could figure out, within one game or two games of being a 500 football team, there have been so many weeks in the last three years. Who wants to keep doing this? Who wants to keep saying, well, maybe they'll be in the playoff race if they only win this, this, this, this, and this game? Who wants to keep saying well maybe they'll be in the playoff race if they only win this this this

this in this game like who wants to keep doing that so no so your point about the lions i totally agree like who cares like okay if you beat them 56 to 0 who cares like once again you're playing tell us anything like we have to file takeaways after every game um right at the buzzer and i was actually thinking ahead about win-loss situation here. Loss situation of the takeaways is like, okay, is it D-Day on Monday? But win, I'm just like, you know, if there's a win, I was like, well. You could write it now. What is it going to be?

Is the win that, I mean, maybe it has something to do with Dalvin Cook and splitting the carries with Alexander Madison actually being a good idea going forward but other than that it's I just can't figure out what are they like this game is not going if they win it it's not going to tell me who they are if they lose it it's going to tell me who they are yeah for damn sure but like I can't I don't know when you're going to find that out if we don't already know it. And like, we're just, you haven't come to the realization yet. Cause the realization would be cleaning house and, and making a change.

I have a guest pie chart for you. This is from, I saw this on Twitter yesterday from CJ, one of your loyal, uh, loyal listeners, subscribers, CJ, uh, always appreciate his his tweets he came up with one that I liked so this is this is your pie chart yeah if this is if they win is the first option is they out of four the first option is they win and rarely to make the playoffs percent chance that that happens against Detroit obviously I'm typing this out with a mic in my hand so just bear with me okay because I'm gonna have to do the math then it's gonna be hard yeah first option is that they win on Sunday rally rally to make playoffs second option is that they win and hold

off from a fire sale or firing everyone or whatever but result in mediocrity so let's say just short of the playoffs that's second option uh the third option would be they lose and still just hang on and end up eight nine or something like that sort of furious race to be in the playoff hunt and then come up short and four is they lose and they trigger the entire rebuild so Firings, the whole thing. So win and make the playoffs, win and come short of the playoffs, lose and come just short of the playoffs, or lose and trigger a rebuild. So percentage chances those things happen.

I'm going to need some music while I get my stuff ready. Do, do, do, do, do, do. It's another pie chart. Yeah, do, do, do. You're adding up up doing some math for a pie chart pie chart pie chart okay you got to figure this out okay i i yeah that was like 20 seconds i need time i mean it's only four options to add up to 100 so okay 70 um do do do do do okay so i'm not editing this out okay okay here we go all right i'm ready all right win and rally to make the playoffs i did these as whole numbers because you were

pressuring me and i got nervous um i said 10 i don't think this is a playoff team. And I will go ahead and stick with my last prediction that I made before the 2021 season after the roster was set. That was eight and nine. And that was after they lost Irv Smith. So it was basically like right up at the cusp of when my deadline was to make the true prediction I had to stick with. So I don't see that happening. I think that the NFC and the way that the rest of the league right now, I mean, you've got some teams that I think going into the season were slightly smaller question marks than the Vikings. I don't know, the Saints, for example.

And I'm like, what the heck are you idiots doing? But you see Dallas and you're like, when is Dallas going to lose? You see the San Francisco 49ers you're like okay you see the Arizona Cardinals who are still undefeated the Rams like there's there's the Green Bay Packers like I am not convinced that they are one of the seven best in the NFC yeah so 10% at that okay all right number two i just want to make sure i clarify this it was win like win this game hold off from the fire sale you're basically like last year's scenario playing out all over again like you call it the 2020 yeah where you're in the race but you just don't make the playoffs was this did this have any sort of firings at the end of the year

uh we didn't he doesn't go that far. This is just to where... This is basically 2020 all over again? Yeah. 30%. Okay. Feels like that is quite possible because at the back half of the schedule, you have all three of your division games again. Remember, they go at Detroit, at Chicago, at Green Bay.

So you have a chance at least for two of those wins, even though Soldier Field is... They won at Soldier Field last year. I don't know if the bears will have it together there so i can count like two wins so maybe they are eight eight nine at the end of the year but okay let me ask you a question here though because now in your pie chart you only have them winning 40 percent of the time because the other two options are a loss correct so you think they're gonna lose or you think there's a better chance they lose i told you it's not a cinch that they beat detroit okay okay i mean i i'm just i'm just saying that that i'm just going

off of these scenarios like did i pick them to be i'll give you my pick like i picked them 30 21 to beat detroit yeah okay but i'm going off of these scenarios okay so um 30 chance that you know they and because i think that there's some bigger chances here of of the loss that cj uh the losses that he like laid out that i think i've got a better way to spin it around but yeah 30 chance it's 2020 all over again it's an it's a big nothing that's what i chalk it up to yeah all right lose on sunday go eight and nine but they hold off on making any changes at the bye week the scenario that you and i talked about where it's like well what's the point of doing it in the middle of the season just you know you're paying mike zimmer anyways you might as well you know do that i put that at 20 okay lose and rebuild that has my highest oh wow okay 40 because

i think a loss to detroit would be such uh stop lying to us stop trying to make us believe that you're a good team stop insulting our football intelligence that is why i feel like that is the highest one because interesting it just kind of feels like Detroit. I mean, come on, it's Detroit. They're awful. Although they've played hard. They've played harder in games than I think some other teams have. And they've been right there in a couple. I mean, you can't help the 66 yard field goal from Justin Tucker. And weirdly, they're not arguing that they're good after losing on a field goal yeah like just saying it's I just feel like enough is enough at that point where ownership would have to be so fed up

to the point that they're like we can't this is an embarrassment this is a personal attack on us for you losing to Detroit yeah so I put that at 40 percent that's interesting that you think there's such a high chance of that because Detroit is such an albatross. If that happens, it's like, oh my God, of all teams to lose to, if the schedule was flipped and it was Carolina and then Detroit, I would not have that same outcome. But it's Detroit. They are the worst in your division.

You've beaten them seven times in a row. Like, no way. No way. And they're without half their offensive line. They don't have their offensive line. Yeah. Like, they don't have their top pass rusher. Like, if the JV Detroit Lions team beats you at home. Yeah.

Sorry, I'm trying to hold my microphone here. I think you just probably ruined my recorder. Over-modulate the things. Like, oh my God. Like, that's an indictment on your franchise if that happens. So the way I would look at this, that's maybe interpreted a little differently is I just think the second option where they win this game and then go on to be eight,

nine is very realistic, way, way more realistic than everything else. But, um, in second place for me would be the fourth option where I, because all the the all the reasons you just laid out we basically flipped because that was your your number one is my number two

yeah because i think they'll win and i think that they'll say oh look we're two and three now and the season's back on and then they'll go to carolina and we'll do this little dance again um with sort of feeling like yeah if they lose the Carolina, then it's two and four, and then the season's almost over, and that kind of thing. But, no, I'm with you that if they lose, I don't know that there should be an opportunity to even go the rest of the way and be mediocre. You can't come back from that.

Yeah, because it is that bad. Like what you just laid out, the Detroit Lions are that bad. Can I get like a quick pause for station ID, quick pause for my math adding up? Did it? Yeah. OK. I did all add it up to 100 percent. So that's usually why people want me to do pie charts because they want to hear me fail. Yeah, that's pretty much it. Right. Shout out to my. That's like the fans that are rooting against the Vikings. Exactly. Only there's no benefit to you failing other than just humor. Yeah, that's pretty much it, right? Shout out to my haters. That's like the fans that are rooting against the Vikings this year. Only there's no benefit to you failing other than just humor.

So we were going to talk about Delvin Cook. Why don't we do that just for a minute here? And I was going to, because we went down this different path, I was going to ask you about things that they could have first guessed or second guessed, but we'll just focus on Delvin Cook for this. I think that him getting injured, even if it was kind of an odd thing with the ankle and whatever else, and then having it be this week to week. Oh,

is Delvin hurt? Is Delvin not hurt? It was always the reason to question a contract extension, because this is what happens with running backs. You just mentioned Christian McCaffrey. Have they gotten their money's worth now from Christian McCaffrey? No. And last year were the 350 touches for Delvin worth it in route to seven and nine? No. And this is one that you

probably could have first guessed. And I don't think that it destroys them by any means, but it only says that the sharp front offices are probably saying no to something like this, I think, or they should have, um, when it comes to a contract extension. And what we've seen here is exactly why Delvin Cook is a wonderful football player, but he's only healthy half the time. And he was only healthy half the time before they signed him to an extension. And it sort of speaks to like the front office has not done everything wrong or anything. But there's just these sharp things that I think other teams are starting to realize and do that the Vikings maybe haven't. And even like signing Harrison Smith to a contract extension,

still a good player, but he's not like winning games by himself anymore. And now you've got him for four more years. It's like, what you could have waited that out. And you just said, no, we're going to pay top dollar.

Now I think Delvin is sort of emblematic of the things that this franchise It's like, what? You could have waited that out and you just said, no, we're going to pay top dollar now. I think Delvin is sort of emblematic of the things that this franchise has done that have been inefficient in the name of we have to win now. Yeah. And you could have foreseen. I know it's not a soft tissue injury. It's not anything that he's had before with the ankle. Like he got wrapped up by J.J. Watt. Could that have happened at any point of his career? Sure. But it just kind of points back to the guy has – he's already lost the goal of playing a full 17-game slate this year.

We're going to look at him at the end of this year, five years in, and say he has still not played a full 17 16 game schedule full season he hasn't that's a fact and you know I wonder because this kind of sparked our conversation like a little bit why we're going to play this game in the first place of just what Clint Kubiak said on Thursday about how I don't anticipate having to like change we're not going to change the identity of what we're doing effectively in the run game, whether Cook's in there, whether Madison's in there, which might not be the best approach because they are not the same exact rusher.

You can do a lot of things. They're workhorses. That's great. They're bell cows, whatever you want to call them. But Madison's rushing style is different than Dalvin's rushing style. Dalvin can hit holes that Madison has not been able to. So I think you should have to alter it and split carries and do things that way. I don't know if they will, because I feel like they've just kind of gotten in this situation,

put themselves in it where it's like, well, we ride Dalvin until we can't. And he said, I'm not a hundred percent yet, but I feel like I'm not getting any worse. That's encouraging. That's not encouraging. And I wonder, like, if you can't beat Detroit, this Detroit team, the JV Detroit Lions, without Dalvin Cook, what does that say about you as a team? So could we have foreseen this coming, like, first guess, second guess?

Yeah. And it wouldn't have even had to have been that same scenario of, you know, he gets paid and then it's a soft tissue injury. It's the same thing that's bothered him. It's the other knee. It's the same knee. It's because of the nature of the way that he plays, the way that he rushes, and this offensive line, and everything else.

I mean, he is a focal point of your offense. If you are carrying the load of the team, you're probably going to get hurt more than the guy who's carrying a third of the load in Alexander Madison. So yeah, first guess, that would have been an easy one. Sometimes I think about when people will leave a comment or something that says, you just second guess all the things that the Vikings do.

And the answer is like, usually we look at what the sharp teams do in the league and then say, is this something that the teams that are considered the smartest would do? And sometimes they do it. Like Cleveland, I think extended Nick Chubb. yeah sometimes they do it um they gave him a really good deal yeah they did sometimes they do extend a running back but in terms of the efficiency that's been studied on certain moves like this there's a growing number that go against what the research would tell you or what the numbers tell you or what the efficiency would tell you and so it's not that it's not that we thought like delvin cook is bad and he's not helpful to this team he's immensely helpful to this team it's more about like is it going to work out like what are the odds are of it working out and going back to the blackjack example like that one was being

at 18 and saying hit me like it's a. The history of running backs just always tells you that you have to get really lucky for your guy not to have his contract blow up on you. And I'm not saying it's blown up just yet, but it's like getting there if he can't guide your offense and that's what you paid him to do. And then he's under contract for at least next year before they can get out of it.

And then you start going, okay, you've got the ACL, an ankle this year, a shoulder before, which Delvin pretended didn't happen in a press conference. And he missed two games from it. Let's not forget it did happen. Absolutely happened and was limited in several more. There was a hamstring. Now he's become a graphic on TV where they have all the little dots

that are pointing to different parts of his body, which happens to every running back. So I think that that's kind of the point there about dalvin and we'll see how his health continues to play out but you said you think detroit um is bad vikings i pick them to win okay yeah i just don't know like if they lose how soon could the action be taking place from ownership i mean you'd like to think that if they are truly as disgusted as they'll probably put out that they are at least through their channels that that would result in some sort of action because you got to think of it from

mike zimmer's perspective every week it kind of feels like the season he's been coaching for his job oh yeah right like that's gotta be a long time't it? He's eight and 12 over the last two seasons. Right? Like, yeah, that's not, that's not good. That's a losing record by four games.

And if you go back to losing in San Francisco, it's eight of the last 21 football games that your team has won. That's usually just doesn't work in the NFL. So I'm going to go like 34, 13. I think it's just going to be a blowout. It won't be close. Kirk destroyed them. They're home. Right. Yeah. That's what I'm going with. But there's just that little 2% in the back of my mind. It's like, man, it could get really interesting. So Courtney, I appreciate all of your time and your effective pie charting. You know, mathematically speaking i gotta i gotta win

today for myself getting my math right that's it and you know what it's about stringing wins together day after day and then getting on run getting hot and then it snowballs snow you get momentum and then i'm in the super bowl how podcast works and then we uh then we have cake sometimes i like cake yeah anyway. Anyway, all right. Well, this has been lots of fun, at least having this discussion. Probably not this recent time has been fun for Vikings fans. No. But we will see if that changes, and that will start this week.

So we'll talk to you soon.